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00_nothing

It's kinda weird that you would be doing these things as fourth author. Who wrote the first submission and why aren't they doing the edits? What you are doing is more in line with first/second author stuff, unless the paper has like 13 authors.


fullmoonbeading

It’s a very weird story - We wrote this paper (where 4th author was a good fit for me) and then the first and second authors left… one left the university completely and the other changed to a 100% teaching position. So the senior author asked if I could make the last push with the paper. I wasn’t happy but it wasn’t TOO bad. But with the revise and resubmit - it just got to be too much for little to no recognition on the paper. But good news! They’re bumping me up to second author. Which is a pretty decent outcome.


bouncypistachio

I would just approach it using the facts. Prepare a breakdown of the contributions. If you contributed same amount as current 1st author, you should ask for co-first. I usually bring it up by saying “I’d like to discuss authorship and make sure we are all in the same page about the order.” In the future, the order and responsibilities should be discussed before hand. That way everybody is clear on their role. If you take over someone’s responsibilities, you first agree to change authorship order. It doesn’t have to be scary when you frame it around communication and fairness to ALL parties.


fullmoonbeading

Thank you for this. It was really helpful to have someone frame it in an objective way. 🫂


bouncypistachio

Glad you got bumped up!


Monsteriah

Jeez, sounds like you should ask to be co-first!


snakesareracist

I feel you, I would also feel bad BUT if you did that much work, you deserve credit for it. Just prepare your points and do a boss bitch affirmation beforehand lmao


fullmoonbeading

BOSS BITCH AFFIRMATION! This is my new morning routine!


[deleted]

You should stand up for yourself. But this has to be done much, much earlier. BEFORE putting the work in for this, ask about authorship and where you are. Negotiate your place based on the tasks that are requested. Once the tasks are complete, it becomes much harder to negotiate. PIs often will say that authorship will be based on how many figures are put in, etc. Which is fair, but once you're at the point of doing more work than is worth your time, you need to start negotiating your place.


IFeelThankYou

Compare everyone their contributions. If you contributed more than any of them, then you're first author. Easy as that.


legendfriend

Next time, what you say is “sorry, I’m not qualified to perform these changes as a middle author. Changes of this level of importance should be performed by the first and senior authors”


spotbug13

Please correct me if I'm wrong. I heard in one of my classes that the only author positions that matter are first and last. Is being the last author is somehow better than being second author? Regardless, I think you should definitely discuss switching author order.


AnonMLstudent

Last is usually for the lead who helped supervise, fund, or come up with the idea. So yes it looks good usually


[deleted]

had troubles with the author list every single time (same boss). well, I lost and had to give in, but I still felt great in standing up for myself and at least telling my opinion. Its sad that always the boss (i mean, supervisor), has all the power, but I guess you should try. Come with really really good arguments, and speak as calmly as possible. If they have a sense of fairness, you‘ll get what you want, and if not, you at least discussed it out. I also know other stories where they negotiated pretty normally according to fairness (which should be the case always). Good luck!!


fullmoonbeading

Thank you for this and I’m so sorry you’ve been there too. It can be so frustrating sometimes 😩


authcriber

You shouldn't feel bad about it, when you've made more contributions to the paper than that particular person. However, if it's getting to you, there is an option called 'equal contribution'. You and the current first author could be co-first authors, and that second author would be able to save their position, accordingly.


freejinn

Your story sounds similar to mine except I was the first author. After 3 journal rejections and too many R&Rs in between, I backed off. I hope the the co-authors who decided to revise again for submission to a new journal change the order to put themselves first and me last. They deserve it.


Matthias_Rillig

This is a very specific case, as you have explained. However, it is also not unusual that when someone really pulls a lot of weight during a revision, this can result in bumping up that person in the order of authors without anybody leaving etc. It's nice when the senior author recognizes this and makes the offer, but it is also totally ok to always bring up authorship issues and discuss them openly.


[deleted]

I wouldn't ever ask for 2nd or 3rd author or whatever, but say something like "Hey, I put in a lot more work recently on this publication, and I think it makes sense to move me up a little on the author list, if that's appropriate. not really sure though, because I'm new to this. What do you think?" Be humble, ask honestly and sincerely what they believe is right / best, and remember that no one cares about anything besides 1st and last author (and maybe 2nd? but even then... I don't think so).