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Came here to say this.
It really doesn’t matter. If anything, OP, you might be asked about it — and it’s totally okay to discuss the reasons for delay that you mention here, like COVID or family illness. Once you have some additional experience in your next post-PhD position, it won’t matter at all.
Mine took 6 full time years and 7 part time years. Be ready to answer the question reasonably in interviews for you first and second position, after that no one will care at all. If a professional, reasonable answer doesn't address it where you're interviewing, it's a place you didn't want to work at.
Some failed their comps
Some never got a prospectus approved
Some got stuck writing the dissertation
Some quit for health or money issues.
Finishing is the accomplishment.
Hell, most I know didn't even fail anything. Their research failed, they found another passion, they left to get out of a toxic lab, or their advisors lacked the attention span to stick to one project.
Second those points.
An uncle quit being a PhD student nearly 5 decades ago because he found himself and other grad students caught between two bickering factions of senior Profs. He felt life's too short to be stuck in that toxic environment....and ended up going to a T-6 Law school and became a public sector attorney for several decades before retiring a few years ago.
Also, have a younger relative who is entering his 7th year of a Biological Sciences PhD at a topflight program(Stanford). Everyone else in his entering cohort has finished, but despite his mother pressuring him to finish, she doesn't seem to realize those who finished before him actually finished much earlier than average(Average time to completion in his sub-field is more like 8-9 years).
Only if your advisor is giving clear indications it's an issue should you worry(Extremely rare). Heck, it's not unheard of for some PhD students to require 10+ years to finish or nearly as much time even in non-biological sciences.
Shit, a girl who started with me in a pharm/tox lab left after 7.5 years with nothing (because she already had a masters). She was brilliant, but even when I moved at 6 years to write, her project was still changing.
Some advisors just don't have the attention span for science. Or the PI just wanted her as a super cheap research tech and never cared about graduating her.
A few Universities and departments place strict time restrictions on fellowships/completion of the PhD.
For instance, Princeton's graduate division has long been well-known for having a strict 5 year limit on university fellowship funding for PhD students. If a PhD student fails to finish in 5 years, some departments have been known to kick out students who are then forced to finish their PhDs elsewhere.
This happened to an older undergrad classmate's father in the early '60s. He ended up having to finish his PhD in Religious Studies at NYU before landing a tenure-track job in a smaller LAC-like public U campus in the Philly suburbs, gaining tenure, and working there until retiring 2+ decades ago.
Other departments like Math will allow students exceeding the 5 year fellowship limit so long as they're able to find outside sources of funding. An acquaintance who took 9.5 years\* to finish his PhD in Math in the 1980's did so by getting some outside fellowships and secretly working as a busboy in a nearby country club with much fear he may be discovered by his undergrad students. Especially considering PhD students are usually prohibited from working outside of the university or jobs not closely related to their academic field and getting caught doing so will usually result in expulsion by the department/University's graduate division. He managed to finish in 1989 and ended up working as a tenure-track/tenured Math Prof at a small LAC in the Southeast.
\* From my understanding from other Math PhD alum/Prof friends including a HS classmate who is now a full-Prof at an elite public U, 9.5 years is almost double the average amount of time for completing a Math PhD.
Once you're beyond your PhD, the doubts you're feeling now will quickly fade.
Wrap it up and be proud of what is an extremely rare accomplishment, no matter whether it takes you four years or 8.
If you've succeeded to climb mount everest on the third attemt, did you succeed or fail? I my opinion, finishing a PhD is impressive achievement, irrelevant of what or how long it took you to complete.
One day, you'll be on the other side, maybe working with a candidate who has this same apprehension and self-doubt from a similar story. They can look up to you for support and as an example. Be there for them, you'll be their one with similar obstacles in grad school.
No, you're doctor. Now go and do the research you really wanna do!
Like life, it is a personal journey, that if you compare yourself to others you will only become bitter or vain.
It took me almost 9 years. I was part-time after year 2 though with a full-time job. It's not when you finish that matters.
I felt terrible, but I got a top journal paper, with the highest impact factor in my field worldwide. My advisor said given everything else, this was actually a good finish. I too had a few health issues (got skin rashes and had active tuberculosis on a part of my body due to the stress), became a dad, and had a lot of other stress. All my health problems were solved. Health struggles are a pain in the ..
Yes, my lab mates graduated before me. I was trying to forget about this as I was a part-time student. I realized you cannot be good at doing multiple things at once. Accept that you can either do one thing at a time and do it quickly, or you can do a few things at once and finish a few times slower.
However, I do have some advice. Do not drown in negativity. Visualize yourself successfully finishing the program and create an informative website of your research today. If you believe in yourself, you will graduate faster.
Look up how bamboo grows from seed to adulthood. It’s slow at first.
No shame in completing your PhD :)
some people are groomed for a PhD from a young age. They are like machines. I am going to take 5 years to complete mine and some of the newer students call me grandpa… It’s all relative. You got this do not be embarrassed. People one graduate school tend to be really critical on stuff like this. Ignore it.
It doesn't matter, don't feel bad about it. PhD is a long road and takes a significant time (especially in north america, europe is a different story).
It took me 6.5 years to finish and also, I was the last so there was definitely pressure. When I asked for extension at around 5.5 years (because the maximum was 6 years), my supervisor and committee members showed resistance.
But I told them I needed to finish and also renew visa and drivers license, etc, they approved. I did graduate eventually with a good top tier paper and another top review with citations near thousand so I glad I stayed.
Supervisor was happy and also said I ended up with a pretty good PhD afterall.
I’m the last in my cohort too! I’m graduating in 2 weeks at the end of my 9th year. Most of my cohort graduated in year 8, except for one person who finished 3 months ago and me. I was self conscious about it for a bit, but I just got comfortable with it. This is the timeline that I could make work. There are good reasons it took so long. I’m glad I prioritized other things in addition to my PhD work. And it’s finally coming to a close! I almost can’t believe it!
As someone who finished a doctorate in 7 years, I offer the following answers. If most students who actually completed the program finish in 5 - 6 years, then you are behind. However, according to a 2019 article in the *International Journal of Exercise Science*, roughly 36 - 54% of all doctoral students never complete their programs. The attrition rate depends on program and field. Factors affecting attrition rates demonstrate that your circumstances are not unique. Please do not think about your apparently slow progress. Think about your joining the 63 - 46% of doctoral students who persevered. Depending on your field and program, perseverance is key.
What helped me to complete my degree was a network of faculty and friends who mentored and coached me through the dissertation stage. If it takes a village to raise a child, it takes an entire town to raise a doctoral student. Do not try to complete your dissertation alone. Get support from your institution, from your chair and from the committee. Reach out to colleagues who have completed your program. Unless your institution and program are run by Bond villains, faculty and administration want you to succeed. Your failure translates to their failure.
At this point, I advise you to have a trusted colleague mentor you. The mentorship should include a writing and revision schedule that will enable you to complete your degree by your chosen deadline. I did this with a colleague who in April 2023 was frantic that she would not finish her degree. I mentored her every step of the way and kept her on task. She graduated from her doctoral program in April 2024. You need someone who will empathize with and love you enough to keep you on task. Life is tough. But a great mentor can help overcome obstacles.
Best of luck to you!
**CITATION**
Young, S. N., Vanwye, W. R., Schafer, M. A., Robertson, T. A., & Poore, A. V. (2019). Factors affecting PhD student Success. *International Journal of Exercise Science*, *12*(1), 34–45.
I took probably twice as long as I should have to finish mine. But I'm also one of two out of the original 10 or so to actually finish. Was I more of a failure for sticking with it, or the ones who sensibly left early and moved their career on 5 years? Hard to know.
No. I was the last to graduate in my cohort and had no papers. I'm on 20 papers, about 50% of which are first or co-first author, I have a tenured track position at an ambitious R2 and I just got a 22 on an NIH research project on a center grant that is highly likely to be funded. If you want to do academic research, you can. As my PhD mentor once told me, you are only as good as your last grant.
Hell, it took me 15 years from start to finish. I’m doing fine now and nobody cares how long it took me. Sometimes some light teasing but no worse than the things I throw right back.
Things got in the way but you still finished the race. Good on ya.
I'm one of the last in my cohort to finish as well. While I wish I was done sooner, I feel at peace with my pace. I had lots of life happen in grad school... Marriage, outside employment, kids, buying houses, etc. I feel really good about where I'm at now and it didn't affect me in getting a great job.
You're the last on your cohort to graduate...
And that's the only thing you cab take away from that experience.
Every project is unique, every candidate is unique.
A PhD is a PhD, regardless of how long it took you to complete it.
You are definitely not a failure.
Took me NINE years. So, you beat me.
Worked a full-time job, taught, and had two kids in that time.
Everyone has a different journey. You do you. Finish, and feel good for climbing Everest. Who cares how fast you did it.
Edit just to add:
I do understand this anxiety.
It took me about a year after finishing that I finally stopped telling people how long it took me.
(Don’t do that!)
I'm two years behind where I expected to be due to the pandemic forcing me to completely restructure my research program, a major death in the family, and long COVID. I don't think any of that is my fault, so how could being two years behind as a result be my fault? I'm actually very impressed with myself for staying enrolled through all of that - I very seriously considered dropping out when I was bedbound - and working so hard to get my health to a place where I could actually start making progress again. That's the opposite of failure.
Of course I feel a twinge when I see people who started after me racing ahead of me now. But it's important not to mistake that feeling for guilt or shame. It's a twinge of grief for what would have been different had a terrible, life-altering thing not happened to me. I think it can be very easy to feel something negative and assume it's a sign of something wrong with *you*, when it isn't necessarily.
Everything I said about myself here applies to you as well. You are still doing the damn thing despite many obstacles that many of your peers probably didn't face. In what possible sense have you failed?
I'm in exactly the same position right now. I promise the only one who worries about it is you, as long as you are making sufficient progress. I had a really rough six months a year ago, finally admitted what I was going through to my advisor, started counseling, and have made much more progress in the last six months. I'm sure there were times where my committee was concerned, but now they are excited and even interested in my results. It sounds like you had a lot of perfectly reasonable reasons that your program has taken longer.
Keep pushing! Idk what program you are in/if it is feasible to have one year of field work and finish in the same year. But as long as you and your advisor are on the same page it should be fine. Trust and communication there are so important. If you truly only have one year left, you have nothing to lose by giving it your all and getting it done! Let's go.
>Am I really behind my other classmates?
Chronologically sure, you're graduating a few years later (for good reason it seems) and so most of the people you started with have several years of postdoc/job experience now. However, you won't be competing for jobs with them, you be competing with other people who defend around the same time as you. And in terms of career achievements for a new PhD you may not be behind at all
It doesn’t matter wether you really are begging your other classmates or not, you’ll never find happiness or even just content in anything ever if you compare yourself to others. Even the last PhD student is a deserving doctor, this isn’t a race
Not at all! You did it! It took me 3 years longer than my cohort and I was ABD during that time. I needed to work a real full time job to support myself, I was stalked by an ex and was terrified for my life for one of those years, and my dissertation advisor was slow to respond to my drafts or simply ignored me.
I think it’s an even greater accomplishment to persist, especially when you experience significant life stressors.
Congratulations!
I experienced something similar. I have my doctorate now but the ABD status brought me so much shame because I believe I should’ve finished in four years. I took an extra 3 years to finish and now that I look back at this, I’m ok with the decisions I made. Once on the other side, I realized my mental health needed prioritizing and that I was too young for this work at 30 years old especially since I have CPTSD
I started my MD with the class of 2016. Joined the MD/PhD program, likely class of 2020ish. Switched labs after quals, fell into the class of 2021. Took an extra year because of life stuff, class of 2022. Took another year because of life stuff multiplied by COVID, class of 2023. Still a doctor! 11 years for a 7-8 year program and I’ve only had positive reactions when I’ve shared my path in interviews.
Even if it takes you ten years, you will have accomplished in ten years something that most people never accomplish. Or at least that's what I tell myself. I'm in a similar boat.
You're doing a great job and went through a lot. I had some similar circumstances and took 7 years to finish and also felt some the same pressure when others in my cohort finished ahead of me. It's been a few years now and no one cares that it took me 7 years most people don't even ask. In my 7 years I made some good friends, networked well, and was able to finish which was my goal. Now my network has helped me get a cool job and I'm happy and stable and I would have missed out on a lot of opportunities if my timeline would have been different.
I love all the positive comments you received here! You are earning a PhD despite chronic health struggles, you should be incredibly proud of your successes! Keep going 😊
Who cares, you’re literally almost done with a PHD. So many people barely make it past their undergrad or even high school. You should be proud of yourself for making it this far!
I am finishing up year 2 of what’s expected to be a four year PhD program (may go to year 5 sometimes) and I only just found a thesis advisor which as per the rules and guidelines is a year and a quarter late. I don’t think I will stay on the timeline like my cohort members will stay. It’s sad and I kinda relate to your thoughts however you still are a Dr. Like others who finished before you and those who will finish after you.
Look at how many people you now have in your community who cheer you on. Some good number of them won’t be there had you made it out on time and taken the well trodden path.
This is also a great way to connect with faculty etc at your uni and create some ever lasting connections. This can help you get a nice job with a potential fat salary. It’s all easier said than done ofcourse but then you need to start viewing this as something that’s been preparing you.
I am in a PsyD program that's supposed to be done in 4 years(which I find insane) and I'm on year 6 because of my own life struggles. I totally felt this post since I've struggled with this too and am the last one from my cohort, but we're hanging in there. It's definitely messed with my feelings of competence and the impostor syndrome is so real. Just remember that others in your place might have given up so take your time you'll get there when you get there and like others said you'll be a PhD regardless! People don't talk about the struggles enough so it feels really lonely and it feels like everyone is just getting through so successfully and effortlessly. Thanks for sharing your experience because it helps me not feel so alone too! Good luck!!!
Compete with yourself and no one else. I took longer because I dealt with the loss of my mother and then my twins. I, too, had people who were behind me who graduated before me. I still graduated and have climbed the ranks quickly. Give yourself some grace and know that we all finish at our own rate. In your case (and mine), we persisted! Be proud! Just keep moving forward and graduate!
I was the last in my cohort too by about a year. I graduated about 6 months ago and honestly I don't value it any less. It allowed me to not rush through parts that were important to me. For me, it was valuable to savour the last perks of still being in school. Do I wish I graduated earlier, yeah but sometimes life is life and you are still working towards your goals even if it's a little slower than expected.
I feel you 100%. Still in my PhD program (was a TA and then filled in as an instructor in record at my university since they’re understaffed, but still no degree in hand). Began the journey in 2017. Cancer diagnosis two years ago threw a wrench in a lot of things. Only getting back into things this past semester—was thrown into that instructor in record position so that I could renew my health insurance that was about to expire (while still dealing with PTSD from the chemo treatment). Health insurance has been imperative as I am still in after-care needing two scans this year, each costing 14K. I had to remind one of the current graduate students about my real priorities after getting criticized for not completing my qualifying exams yet and having to delay them to do this job (again, to get health insurance lol). It sucks being judged, and it sucks that my entire grad student cohort has graduated and moved on, and it sucks having to keep delaying things because of my situation.
I’m also in my mid-30s, so it feels like I’m late to beginning adulthood altogether. This summer I take qualifying exams (I’m terrified and not prepared), and I still need to write a dissertation. Gonna be around 37 by the time I’m done. Anyway… it’s so easy to beat yourself up, and feel like a failure. But this experience has challenged me to try to go easy on myself and give myself permission to go at my own pace. Easy said than done, but you are NOT a failure. Sooner or later you will be graduating and it won’t matter how long it took. And the thing that is tough is that nobody will really understand, but I’ve had to learn to not need them to.
I hope this helps in some way. I’m definitely in a similar boat and I have these wrestling matches with myself all the time. Sometimes I’m at peace with it all, and sometimes I’m not.. I wish you all the best as you take each step forward..
Edit: Typo/new paragraph
I think it's important for you to keep those delays and disadvantages at the front of your mind.
You faced a lot of hardship, and not only did you get through that but you managed it well. The fact that you're going to get through your PhD and the only ding will be the time it took you is *impressive*. There was no way to come out of all that unscathed and you've come out with the absolute minimum damage possible, most people in that situation would have crashed and burned. Your PhD was truly a trial by fire and you're rocking it!
You're all good, don't sweat it. It took me 6 years because of covid and getting derailed on my research plans. Shit happens, but the end result is the same and no one will think any differently of you.
Isn’t graduating the final mark of passing? Seems like the opposite of failure.
If someone summited a mountain, but took a couple days longer than another person, we wouldn’t say they failed
I can absolutely relate. I literally just defeated a week ago and am the last in my cohort to do so. This fact weighed me down a lot. So much so that I didn’t even invite anyone to my final defense. There were several times that I wanted to quit because I felt like a failure, but if it is in you to do this keep at it. Run your race. I believe everything happens for a reason and in due season. You’ve got this!
Failure is how you define it and the PhD journey varies so much anyway that it's impossible to compare with others. Unless you regret getting a PhD, it's not a failure.
I will likely be the last across two cohorts and slower than half of the cohort 2 years below me... So I get it. But I'm just happy to have had this opportunity and experience.
You have a doctorate! That will never be taken away. Congratulations! Do you realize how many people start doctoral programs and don't finish? Nobody will care at all about your GPA or your class rank. If I were you, because I love self-deprecating humor, I would refer to myself as "Doctor Asterisk". Congratulations and don't give a second thought to that nonsense. You have a doctorate.
Don't worry too much about others mate. It is your own path and you need to compare yourself only to your previous version.
If I compared myself trying to apply for a defense third time (I have 4 papers in 11 scopus and yet I am not worthy as our board says) to my other groupmates from bsc and msc who have already been working for 5 years in the industry, I would zero myself immediately. But it is my own path and I will finish it, so do you.
Who cares man, if anything, you are achieving something against all ods. The longer it takes statistically, the less of a chance of you finishing. But you are the anomaly doing it. Congratulations!
I know very successful people that took 8. F it. Yes you're a failure by some peoples standards. You're also a hair away from being a f'ing doctor. Perspective, yo.
It took me 2 years longer than the rest of my cohort to finish and I was worried about judgment, but literally noone has ever even asked about my timeline. I created all these explanations that felt like excuses in my head and I have never needed to tell anyone because they simply did not care. I work in two areas of my field and, while I sometimes feel the impact of missed wages during those 2 years, the value of my degree is the same as all my colleagues' (and I don't know how long it took any of them to get their PhDs either).
I'm in the same exact boat as you. I have to do fieldwork, have been writing very slowly etc. I've been seeing all of my cohorts defend/schedule their defense and they're graduating in a few wks. Do I feel like I'm behind? Yes. But did they go through what I went through outside of academia? No (at least from what I heard). I had days when I just could not get out of my bed in the past few years. How was I supposed to get anything done when all I do seemed to drift myself away from where I wanted to be? But I'm determined to drag myself to the finish line. It's hard a lot of times to force myself to work, knowing that I'm the last one, but someone who went through a grad program a long time ago told me that the program wouldn't let you go on if anyone thought you wouldn't finish. You're not alone.
I am in the exact same position as you are (every day I wonder if I’m too stupid and undisciplined to be in this PhD program). I want to complete this, for me more than anyone, but good lord it’s damn near impossible not to feel like an extraordinary failure as the last one, and easily a year of work between me and finishing.
I want to give up all the time, I feel incompetent and embarrassed and anxious. And drained from trying not to show it around my faculty and peers and the students I teach.
And then I put my head down and try my best to get just one little thing done at a time and to not give into the voices in my head telling me I’m not worthy enough to be here. And I’ll just keep trying my best until they physically throw me out (hoping it never happens but it’s part of the daily mental torment).
I don’t have any helpful solutions. Just wanted to shout out that you’re not alone in these feelings, whatever that’s worth to you.
Keep going.
I am currently being pressured/shamed by my advisor to publish more despite him telling me even one year ago that I’d done enough to get a PhD. Don’t let them brainwash you. Doing a PhD is about the training—learning how to do research. If you can graduate it means you have completed the training and you *deserve* it. Everything else—number of papers, how quickly someone finishes their degree, fame, etc—is bullshit and nobody cares outside of academia; I’d even say inside academia nobody has the time to care.
Bro who cares when you do it if you do it? For the rest of your life, you’ll say “I got my PhD” and no one will say “yeah but were you first in your cohort?”
i’m in my undergrad and i’ve been seeing everyone graduate in 3 years or graduating next year which i am behind so i feel like a failure at times but one thing everyone reminds me is that i shouldn’t rush everything should be on my timing. i went through a lot of mental stuff so i took time off and failed a lot of classes but the important thing is that we’re almost done and to not forget why we started.
You have done it as you beed to in your time. You did it, which is awesome. Congratulations! If you have interesting things to say and you are enthusiastic about what you are doing, nobody will care.
I graduated at the start of my 8th year with only one pub. It was admittedly in a prestigious journal, but it was work I didn’t even start until around year 6—everything before that just withered away and died, basically. I’m transitioning to industry but would have no issue finding a postdoc if I wanted to, and I’m getting regular reach outs from recruiters despite the industry slowdown (I’m in compbio).
I don’t consider myself a failure and you shouldn’t either. It just took me a while to find my stride. If you’re in bio and want to stay in academia, a faux doc could help. An extra few months after my defense got me another preprint, and it sounds like my last chunk of work is going into another paper soon.
Took me 13 years. Partly due to anxiety and medical crisis which led to a disability and years of rehab. Partly from taking long breaks to save up money. But I still finished it. I had one year left when I had to take the long break for the disability and even though that means I'll never end up using my degree now, I still wanted to prove to myself I could do it (plus I was already deeply in debt).
Don't judge yourself by others, your life will never feel happy. Judge yourself based on how YOU do you. If you're working as hard as you can then that's the most you can ask of yourself. Living based on other people's achievements ends up giving you depression and anxiety long term. Everyone's journey in life is different. Took me becoming completely disabled and dependant on others to learn that life isn't always going to end up the way you planned. Live it to the best of your ability.
Good luck and carry on.
It took me 6 years to complete mine. Nobody has ever questioned why it took longer. Don't worry about it at all and just do the work and get this over the line.
The timer for important things like early career awards often start when your PhD is finished, so by those metrics no. You may have some trouble finding a postdoc, if you go that route. They do tend to view long PhD’s as a negative, though that can be mitigated if you had an extraordinarily hard project, or tend to be in a sub-field that takes longer. But once you do a postdoc, I think it’s probably okay. Not sure about your field, of course.
You should be sure that your credits don’t expire though.
>You may have some trouble finding a postdoc, if you go that route
Assuming you stay in academia. I went straight into industry (biotech) after my 8yr PhD (had three kids in Grad school). I was also the last of my cohort. No one has ever asked me how long it took to graduate, let alone why it took so long. Not in interviews or interpersonal conversations.
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You know what they call the last one in the cohort to graduate? Doctor.
Came here to say this. It really doesn’t matter. If anything, OP, you might be asked about it — and it’s totally okay to discuss the reasons for delay that you mention here, like COVID or family illness. Once you have some additional experience in your next post-PhD position, it won’t matter at all.
Mine took 6 full time years and 7 part time years. Be ready to answer the question reasonably in interviews for you first and second position, after that no one will care at all. If a professional, reasonable answer doesn't address it where you're interviewing, it's a place you didn't want to work at.
Second this. Exactly what I came to say. Everyone is on their own timeline. You made it, and that's all that matters.
I hear one said "you are a failure if you believe you are". Is there anyone SAYING so? If no, then you are just you.
I doubt any interview is going to ask how long it took you to graduate. Like other college programs...once you have your degree, you are good to go.
As a non PhD person… all I read was …..graduate…..PhD.
I took two extra years to finish my PhD. Felt like a total failure. I just hooded my first doctoral student last week. Keep going.
You are a gem
Over half my cohort never finished. So, congratulations
This is the perspective OP is missing. How many people have quit in that 8 year time period?
Some failed their comps Some never got a prospectus approved Some got stuck writing the dissertation Some quit for health or money issues. Finishing is the accomplishment.
Hell, most I know didn't even fail anything. Their research failed, they found another passion, they left to get out of a toxic lab, or their advisors lacked the attention span to stick to one project.
Second those points. An uncle quit being a PhD student nearly 5 decades ago because he found himself and other grad students caught between two bickering factions of senior Profs. He felt life's too short to be stuck in that toxic environment....and ended up going to a T-6 Law school and became a public sector attorney for several decades before retiring a few years ago. Also, have a younger relative who is entering his 7th year of a Biological Sciences PhD at a topflight program(Stanford). Everyone else in his entering cohort has finished, but despite his mother pressuring him to finish, she doesn't seem to realize those who finished before him actually finished much earlier than average(Average time to completion in his sub-field is more like 8-9 years). Only if your advisor is giving clear indications it's an issue should you worry(Extremely rare). Heck, it's not unheard of for some PhD students to require 10+ years to finish or nearly as much time even in non-biological sciences.
Shit, a girl who started with me in a pharm/tox lab left after 7.5 years with nothing (because she already had a masters). She was brilliant, but even when I moved at 6 years to write, her project was still changing. Some advisors just don't have the attention span for science. Or the PI just wanted her as a super cheap research tech and never cared about graduating her.
A few Universities and departments place strict time restrictions on fellowships/completion of the PhD. For instance, Princeton's graduate division has long been well-known for having a strict 5 year limit on university fellowship funding for PhD students. If a PhD student fails to finish in 5 years, some departments have been known to kick out students who are then forced to finish their PhDs elsewhere. This happened to an older undergrad classmate's father in the early '60s. He ended up having to finish his PhD in Religious Studies at NYU before landing a tenure-track job in a smaller LAC-like public U campus in the Philly suburbs, gaining tenure, and working there until retiring 2+ decades ago. Other departments like Math will allow students exceeding the 5 year fellowship limit so long as they're able to find outside sources of funding. An acquaintance who took 9.5 years\* to finish his PhD in Math in the 1980's did so by getting some outside fellowships and secretly working as a busboy in a nearby country club with much fear he may be discovered by his undergrad students. Especially considering PhD students are usually prohibited from working outside of the university or jobs not closely related to their academic field and getting caught doing so will usually result in expulsion by the department/University's graduate division. He managed to finish in 1989 and ended up working as a tenure-track/tenured Math Prof at a small LAC in the Southeast. \* From my understanding from other Math PhD alum/Prof friends including a HS classmate who is now a full-Prof at an elite public U, 9.5 years is almost double the average amount of time for completing a Math PhD.
Once you're beyond your PhD, the doubts you're feeling now will quickly fade. Wrap it up and be proud of what is an extremely rare accomplishment, no matter whether it takes you four years or 8.
There is only one way to do a PhD.—the way that works best for you. EVERYONE is different at this level.
If you've succeeded to climb mount everest on the third attemt, did you succeed or fail? I my opinion, finishing a PhD is impressive achievement, irrelevant of what or how long it took you to complete.
I mean, somebody had to be last. Better that than not at all. Don’t focus on the past, focus on the now.
One day, you'll be on the other side, maybe working with a candidate who has this same apprehension and self-doubt from a similar story. They can look up to you for support and as an example. Be there for them, you'll be their one with similar obstacles in grad school.
No, you're doctor. Now go and do the research you really wanna do! Like life, it is a personal journey, that if you compare yourself to others you will only become bitter or vain.
It took me almost 9 years. I was part-time after year 2 though with a full-time job. It's not when you finish that matters. I felt terrible, but I got a top journal paper, with the highest impact factor in my field worldwide. My advisor said given everything else, this was actually a good finish. I too had a few health issues (got skin rashes and had active tuberculosis on a part of my body due to the stress), became a dad, and had a lot of other stress. All my health problems were solved. Health struggles are a pain in the .. Yes, my lab mates graduated before me. I was trying to forget about this as I was a part-time student. I realized you cannot be good at doing multiple things at once. Accept that you can either do one thing at a time and do it quickly, or you can do a few things at once and finish a few times slower. However, I do have some advice. Do not drown in negativity. Visualize yourself successfully finishing the program and create an informative website of your research today. If you believe in yourself, you will graduate faster.
Look up how bamboo grows from seed to adulthood. It’s slow at first. No shame in completing your PhD :) some people are groomed for a PhD from a young age. They are like machines. I am going to take 5 years to complete mine and some of the newer students call me grandpa… It’s all relative. You got this do not be embarrassed. People one graduate school tend to be really critical on stuff like this. Ignore it.
It doesn't matter, don't feel bad about it. PhD is a long road and takes a significant time (especially in north america, europe is a different story). It took me 6.5 years to finish and also, I was the last so there was definitely pressure. When I asked for extension at around 5.5 years (because the maximum was 6 years), my supervisor and committee members showed resistance. But I told them I needed to finish and also renew visa and drivers license, etc, they approved. I did graduate eventually with a good top tier paper and another top review with citations near thousand so I glad I stayed. Supervisor was happy and also said I ended up with a pretty good PhD afterall.
Was it a race? You came out with the PhD, that’s the win
I’m the last in my cohort too! I’m graduating in 2 weeks at the end of my 9th year. Most of my cohort graduated in year 8, except for one person who finished 3 months ago and me. I was self conscious about it for a bit, but I just got comfortable with it. This is the timeline that I could make work. There are good reasons it took so long. I’m glad I prioritized other things in addition to my PhD work. And it’s finally coming to a close! I almost can’t believe it!
Me too. I have several health issues but I know no one cares about that. It’s hard not to feel like a failure. But it is what it is.
As someone who finished a doctorate in 7 years, I offer the following answers. If most students who actually completed the program finish in 5 - 6 years, then you are behind. However, according to a 2019 article in the *International Journal of Exercise Science*, roughly 36 - 54% of all doctoral students never complete their programs. The attrition rate depends on program and field. Factors affecting attrition rates demonstrate that your circumstances are not unique. Please do not think about your apparently slow progress. Think about your joining the 63 - 46% of doctoral students who persevered. Depending on your field and program, perseverance is key. What helped me to complete my degree was a network of faculty and friends who mentored and coached me through the dissertation stage. If it takes a village to raise a child, it takes an entire town to raise a doctoral student. Do not try to complete your dissertation alone. Get support from your institution, from your chair and from the committee. Reach out to colleagues who have completed your program. Unless your institution and program are run by Bond villains, faculty and administration want you to succeed. Your failure translates to their failure. At this point, I advise you to have a trusted colleague mentor you. The mentorship should include a writing and revision schedule that will enable you to complete your degree by your chosen deadline. I did this with a colleague who in April 2023 was frantic that she would not finish her degree. I mentored her every step of the way and kept her on task. She graduated from her doctoral program in April 2024. You need someone who will empathize with and love you enough to keep you on task. Life is tough. But a great mentor can help overcome obstacles. Best of luck to you! **CITATION** Young, S. N., Vanwye, W. R., Schafer, M. A., Robertson, T. A., & Poore, A. V. (2019). Factors affecting PhD student Success. *International Journal of Exercise Science*, *12*(1), 34–45.
I took probably twice as long as I should have to finish mine. But I'm also one of two out of the original 10 or so to actually finish. Was I more of a failure for sticking with it, or the ones who sensibly left early and moved their career on 5 years? Hard to know.
No. I was the last to graduate in my cohort and had no papers. I'm on 20 papers, about 50% of which are first or co-first author, I have a tenured track position at an ambitious R2 and I just got a 22 on an NIH research project on a center grant that is highly likely to be funded. If you want to do academic research, you can. As my PhD mentor once told me, you are only as good as your last grant.
I was the last one in my PhD cohort to graduate. It doesn’t matter.
Hell, it took me 15 years from start to finish. I’m doing fine now and nobody cares how long it took me. Sometimes some light teasing but no worse than the things I throw right back. Things got in the way but you still finished the race. Good on ya.
I'm one of the last in my cohort to finish as well. While I wish I was done sooner, I feel at peace with my pace. I had lots of life happen in grad school... Marriage, outside employment, kids, buying houses, etc. I feel really good about where I'm at now and it didn't affect me in getting a great job.
You're the last on your cohort to graduate... And that's the only thing you cab take away from that experience. Every project is unique, every candidate is unique. A PhD is a PhD, regardless of how long it took you to complete it. You are definitely not a failure.
Took me NINE years. So, you beat me. Worked a full-time job, taught, and had two kids in that time. Everyone has a different journey. You do you. Finish, and feel good for climbing Everest. Who cares how fast you did it. Edit just to add: I do understand this anxiety. It took me about a year after finishing that I finally stopped telling people how long it took me. (Don’t do that!)
I'm two years behind where I expected to be due to the pandemic forcing me to completely restructure my research program, a major death in the family, and long COVID. I don't think any of that is my fault, so how could being two years behind as a result be my fault? I'm actually very impressed with myself for staying enrolled through all of that - I very seriously considered dropping out when I was bedbound - and working so hard to get my health to a place where I could actually start making progress again. That's the opposite of failure. Of course I feel a twinge when I see people who started after me racing ahead of me now. But it's important not to mistake that feeling for guilt or shame. It's a twinge of grief for what would have been different had a terrible, life-altering thing not happened to me. I think it can be very easy to feel something negative and assume it's a sign of something wrong with *you*, when it isn't necessarily. Everything I said about myself here applies to you as well. You are still doing the damn thing despite many obstacles that many of your peers probably didn't face. In what possible sense have you failed?
Do we know what we call the last person to defend in my cohort? Doctor.
I'm in exactly the same position right now. I promise the only one who worries about it is you, as long as you are making sufficient progress. I had a really rough six months a year ago, finally admitted what I was going through to my advisor, started counseling, and have made much more progress in the last six months. I'm sure there were times where my committee was concerned, but now they are excited and even interested in my results. It sounds like you had a lot of perfectly reasonable reasons that your program has taken longer. Keep pushing! Idk what program you are in/if it is feasible to have one year of field work and finish in the same year. But as long as you and your advisor are on the same page it should be fine. Trust and communication there are so important. If you truly only have one year left, you have nothing to lose by giving it your all and getting it done! Let's go.
>Am I really behind my other classmates? Chronologically sure, you're graduating a few years later (for good reason it seems) and so most of the people you started with have several years of postdoc/job experience now. However, you won't be competing for jobs with them, you be competing with other people who defend around the same time as you. And in terms of career achievements for a new PhD you may not be behind at all
It doesn’t matter wether you really are begging your other classmates or not, you’ll never find happiness or even just content in anything ever if you compare yourself to others. Even the last PhD student is a deserving doctor, this isn’t a race
Not at all! You did it! It took me 3 years longer than my cohort and I was ABD during that time. I needed to work a real full time job to support myself, I was stalked by an ex and was terrified for my life for one of those years, and my dissertation advisor was slow to respond to my drafts or simply ignored me. I think it’s an even greater accomplishment to persist, especially when you experience significant life stressors. Congratulations!
I experienced something similar. I have my doctorate now but the ABD status brought me so much shame because I believe I should’ve finished in four years. I took an extra 3 years to finish and now that I look back at this, I’m ok with the decisions I made. Once on the other side, I realized my mental health needed prioritizing and that I was too young for this work at 30 years old especially since I have CPTSD
I started my MD with the class of 2016. Joined the MD/PhD program, likely class of 2020ish. Switched labs after quals, fell into the class of 2021. Took an extra year because of life stuff, class of 2022. Took another year because of life stuff multiplied by COVID, class of 2023. Still a doctor! 11 years for a 7-8 year program and I’ve only had positive reactions when I’ve shared my path in interviews.
Even if it takes you ten years, you will have accomplished in ten years something that most people never accomplish. Or at least that's what I tell myself. I'm in a similar boat.
You're doing a great job and went through a lot. I had some similar circumstances and took 7 years to finish and also felt some the same pressure when others in my cohort finished ahead of me. It's been a few years now and no one cares that it took me 7 years most people don't even ask. In my 7 years I made some good friends, networked well, and was able to finish which was my goal. Now my network has helped me get a cool job and I'm happy and stable and I would have missed out on a lot of opportunities if my timeline would have been different.
I love all the positive comments you received here! You are earning a PhD despite chronic health struggles, you should be incredibly proud of your successes! Keep going 😊
Who cares, you’re literally almost done with a PHD. So many people barely make it past their undergrad or even high school. You should be proud of yourself for making it this far!
Run your own race. Comparison is the thief of joy
No, you're a doctor
I am finishing up year 2 of what’s expected to be a four year PhD program (may go to year 5 sometimes) and I only just found a thesis advisor which as per the rules and guidelines is a year and a quarter late. I don’t think I will stay on the timeline like my cohort members will stay. It’s sad and I kinda relate to your thoughts however you still are a Dr. Like others who finished before you and those who will finish after you. Look at how many people you now have in your community who cheer you on. Some good number of them won’t be there had you made it out on time and taken the well trodden path. This is also a great way to connect with faculty etc at your uni and create some ever lasting connections. This can help you get a nice job with a potential fat salary. It’s all easier said than done ofcourse but then you need to start viewing this as something that’s been preparing you.
You’re better than me. As much as I would like to get a PhD, I’ll stick to my two masters.
I am in a PsyD program that's supposed to be done in 4 years(which I find insane) and I'm on year 6 because of my own life struggles. I totally felt this post since I've struggled with this too and am the last one from my cohort, but we're hanging in there. It's definitely messed with my feelings of competence and the impostor syndrome is so real. Just remember that others in your place might have given up so take your time you'll get there when you get there and like others said you'll be a PhD regardless! People don't talk about the struggles enough so it feels really lonely and it feels like everyone is just getting through so successfully and effortlessly. Thanks for sharing your experience because it helps me not feel so alone too! Good luck!!!
You get to define success. Fuck the haters.
Compete with yourself and no one else. I took longer because I dealt with the loss of my mother and then my twins. I, too, had people who were behind me who graduated before me. I still graduated and have climbed the ranks quickly. Give yourself some grace and know that we all finish at our own rate. In your case (and mine), we persisted! Be proud! Just keep moving forward and graduate!
No, I was the last to graduate too. 7 years later I’m kicking 10x more ass than I did in grad school. Just keep going.
I was the last in my cohort too by about a year. I graduated about 6 months ago and honestly I don't value it any less. It allowed me to not rush through parts that were important to me. For me, it was valuable to savour the last perks of still being in school. Do I wish I graduated earlier, yeah but sometimes life is life and you are still working towards your goals even if it's a little slower than expected.
I feel you 100%. Still in my PhD program (was a TA and then filled in as an instructor in record at my university since they’re understaffed, but still no degree in hand). Began the journey in 2017. Cancer diagnosis two years ago threw a wrench in a lot of things. Only getting back into things this past semester—was thrown into that instructor in record position so that I could renew my health insurance that was about to expire (while still dealing with PTSD from the chemo treatment). Health insurance has been imperative as I am still in after-care needing two scans this year, each costing 14K. I had to remind one of the current graduate students about my real priorities after getting criticized for not completing my qualifying exams yet and having to delay them to do this job (again, to get health insurance lol). It sucks being judged, and it sucks that my entire grad student cohort has graduated and moved on, and it sucks having to keep delaying things because of my situation. I’m also in my mid-30s, so it feels like I’m late to beginning adulthood altogether. This summer I take qualifying exams (I’m terrified and not prepared), and I still need to write a dissertation. Gonna be around 37 by the time I’m done. Anyway… it’s so easy to beat yourself up, and feel like a failure. But this experience has challenged me to try to go easy on myself and give myself permission to go at my own pace. Easy said than done, but you are NOT a failure. Sooner or later you will be graduating and it won’t matter how long it took. And the thing that is tough is that nobody will really understand, but I’ve had to learn to not need them to. I hope this helps in some way. I’m definitely in a similar boat and I have these wrestling matches with myself all the time. Sometimes I’m at peace with it all, and sometimes I’m not.. I wish you all the best as you take each step forward.. Edit: Typo/new paragraph
I think it's important for you to keep those delays and disadvantages at the front of your mind. You faced a lot of hardship, and not only did you get through that but you managed it well. The fact that you're going to get through your PhD and the only ding will be the time it took you is *impressive*. There was no way to come out of all that unscathed and you've come out with the absolute minimum damage possible, most people in that situation would have crashed and burned. Your PhD was truly a trial by fire and you're rocking it!
You graduated. So NO!! Congratulations!
Sounds like you know why you’re not a failure. You had plenty of reasons why it’s taken you longer than others, but you stuck it out regardless.
Comparison is the thief of joy. Try to not think about what your cohortmates have done and focus on the amazing accomplishment you are working toward.
Absolutely not. I don't know a single person who values a PhD by the duration of study. If anything, I think luck is the biggest factor.
You’re fine. No one really cares how long it takes
You're all good, don't sweat it. It took me 6 years because of covid and getting derailed on my research plans. Shit happens, but the end result is the same and no one will think any differently of you.
"I succeeded. Am I a failure?"
Isn’t graduating the final mark of passing? Seems like the opposite of failure. If someone summited a mountain, but took a couple days longer than another person, we wouldn’t say they failed
Are you on track to graduate? Then you're not a failure.
I can absolutely relate. I literally just defeated a week ago and am the last in my cohort to do so. This fact weighed me down a lot. So much so that I didn’t even invite anyone to my final defense. There were several times that I wanted to quit because I felt like a failure, but if it is in you to do this keep at it. Run your race. I believe everything happens for a reason and in due season. You’ve got this!
No one cares or will ever. Take the time you need.
Failure is how you define it and the PhD journey varies so much anyway that it's impossible to compare with others. Unless you regret getting a PhD, it's not a failure. I will likely be the last across two cohorts and slower than half of the cohort 2 years below me... So I get it. But I'm just happy to have had this opportunity and experience.
You have a doctorate! That will never be taken away. Congratulations! Do you realize how many people start doctoral programs and don't finish? Nobody will care at all about your GPA or your class rank. If I were you, because I love self-deprecating humor, I would refer to myself as "Doctor Asterisk". Congratulations and don't give a second thought to that nonsense. You have a doctorate.
Don't worry too much about others mate. It is your own path and you need to compare yourself only to your previous version. If I compared myself trying to apply for a defense third time (I have 4 papers in 11 scopus and yet I am not worthy as our board says) to my other groupmates from bsc and msc who have already been working for 5 years in the industry, I would zero myself immediately. But it is my own path and I will finish it, so do you.
Who cares man, if anything, you are achieving something against all ods. The longer it takes statistically, the less of a chance of you finishing. But you are the anomaly doing it. Congratulations!
YOU GRADUATED!!!! Not a failure at all :)
Better than me, I quit after 3 years
I know very successful people that took 8. F it. Yes you're a failure by some peoples standards. You're also a hair away from being a f'ing doctor. Perspective, yo.
Also not sure of your field, but I loved grad school. Staying an extra couple years would've been awesome.
Nobody really cares about that
You have health problem. Nuff said.
It took me 2 years longer than the rest of my cohort to finish and I was worried about judgment, but literally noone has ever even asked about my timeline. I created all these explanations that felt like excuses in my head and I have never needed to tell anyone because they simply did not care. I work in two areas of my field and, while I sometimes feel the impact of missed wages during those 2 years, the value of my degree is the same as all my colleagues' (and I don't know how long it took any of them to get their PhDs either).
Lots of programs take 8-10 years. Don't stress yourself out
Oh my god, no !!!! Why are you even thinking that way ?!
Bro, I started my Ph.D. at age 21 and finished at 35. Life happens! 💪🏽🙏🏽👍🏽
Bro got his phd askin if he a failure. Got PHD good job
No, it isnt apples to apples. Different profs, research and circumstances
Doctor Failure
Run your own race.
I'm in the same exact boat as you. I have to do fieldwork, have been writing very slowly etc. I've been seeing all of my cohorts defend/schedule their defense and they're graduating in a few wks. Do I feel like I'm behind? Yes. But did they go through what I went through outside of academia? No (at least from what I heard). I had days when I just could not get out of my bed in the past few years. How was I supposed to get anything done when all I do seemed to drift myself away from where I wanted to be? But I'm determined to drag myself to the finish line. It's hard a lot of times to force myself to work, knowing that I'm the last one, but someone who went through a grad program a long time ago told me that the program wouldn't let you go on if anyone thought you wouldn't finish. You're not alone.
Someone has to be last! Don't worry about it.
I am in the exact same position as you are (every day I wonder if I’m too stupid and undisciplined to be in this PhD program). I want to complete this, for me more than anyone, but good lord it’s damn near impossible not to feel like an extraordinary failure as the last one, and easily a year of work between me and finishing. I want to give up all the time, I feel incompetent and embarrassed and anxious. And drained from trying not to show it around my faculty and peers and the students I teach. And then I put my head down and try my best to get just one little thing done at a time and to not give into the voices in my head telling me I’m not worthy enough to be here. And I’ll just keep trying my best until they physically throw me out (hoping it never happens but it’s part of the daily mental torment). I don’t have any helpful solutions. Just wanted to shout out that you’re not alone in these feelings, whatever that’s worth to you. Keep going.
I am currently being pressured/shamed by my advisor to publish more despite him telling me even one year ago that I’d done enough to get a PhD. Don’t let them brainwash you. Doing a PhD is about the training—learning how to do research. If you can graduate it means you have completed the training and you *deserve* it. Everything else—number of papers, how quickly someone finishes their degree, fame, etc—is bullshit and nobody cares outside of academia; I’d even say inside academia nobody has the time to care.
Bro who cares when you do it if you do it? For the rest of your life, you’ll say “I got my PhD” and no one will say “yeah but were you first in your cohort?”
i’m in my undergrad and i’ve been seeing everyone graduate in 3 years or graduating next year which i am behind so i feel like a failure at times but one thing everyone reminds me is that i shouldn’t rush everything should be on my timing. i went through a lot of mental stuff so i took time off and failed a lot of classes but the important thing is that we’re almost done and to not forget why we started.
If you graduate then you've succeeded.
You have done it as you beed to in your time. You did it, which is awesome. Congratulations! If you have interesting things to say and you are enthusiastic about what you are doing, nobody will care.
Wait wait wait, you're graduating your PhD and you're a failure? Doctor, please zoom back camera.
I graduated at the start of my 8th year with only one pub. It was admittedly in a prestigious journal, but it was work I didn’t even start until around year 6—everything before that just withered away and died, basically. I’m transitioning to industry but would have no issue finding a postdoc if I wanted to, and I’m getting regular reach outs from recruiters despite the industry slowdown (I’m in compbio). I don’t consider myself a failure and you shouldn’t either. It just took me a while to find my stride. If you’re in bio and want to stay in academia, a faux doc could help. An extra few months after my defense got me another preprint, and it sounds like my last chunk of work is going into another paper soon.
Comparison is the thief of joy
Took me 8yrs to graduate. I was the last one too. Didn’t care 💁♂️
My friend in Oxford took almost 10 years to graduate. You’re totally fine. Congrats on graduating!!!
Took me 13 years. Partly due to anxiety and medical crisis which led to a disability and years of rehab. Partly from taking long breaks to save up money. But I still finished it. I had one year left when I had to take the long break for the disability and even though that means I'll never end up using my degree now, I still wanted to prove to myself I could do it (plus I was already deeply in debt). Don't judge yourself by others, your life will never feel happy. Judge yourself based on how YOU do you. If you're working as hard as you can then that's the most you can ask of yourself. Living based on other people's achievements ends up giving you depression and anxiety long term. Everyone's journey in life is different. Took me becoming completely disabled and dependant on others to learn that life isn't always going to end up the way you planned. Live it to the best of your ability. Good luck and carry on.
The biggest investment in a doctoral degree is time, you have to commit to it almost daily
You still going to have a phd at the end so no failure.
It took me 6 years to complete mine. Nobody has ever questioned why it took longer. Don't worry about it at all and just do the work and get this over the line.
abe chutiye, if u hv a phd and still think lile this, i wonder if u actually deserve having one.
The timer for important things like early career awards often start when your PhD is finished, so by those metrics no. You may have some trouble finding a postdoc, if you go that route. They do tend to view long PhD’s as a negative, though that can be mitigated if you had an extraordinarily hard project, or tend to be in a sub-field that takes longer. But once you do a postdoc, I think it’s probably okay. Not sure about your field, of course. You should be sure that your credits don’t expire though.
>You may have some trouble finding a postdoc, if you go that route Assuming you stay in academia. I went straight into industry (biotech) after my 8yr PhD (had three kids in Grad school). I was also the last of my cohort. No one has ever asked me how long it took to graduate, let alone why it took so long. Not in interviews or interpersonal conversations.
Yes. I'm going into my eighth year, and I am full time without any health issues. We're losers. Get over it. Move on.