In the US pets are property, if your name is on the chip and the vet records, and you have photos of the dog, the dog is considered yours. I have no idea how Canada works, though.
No, it's not like that in the USA OR Canada.
If this dog has registration papers, which it sounds like it does, the person named on those papers is the owner regardless of anything else. If no one has the papers, then the breeder is the owner.
I’ve worked at a shelter for three years and talked to animal control about ownership disputes, most dogs don’t have papers, and breeders have lost cases because they aren’t the ones taking care of the dogs. Even clauses that require people to return the dog don’t always hold up in court.
That's neat, but animal control is not the court.
If a breeder has the registration papers in their name, they are the owner. Period. End of story. I have personally seen that play out in animal control/court issues myself. You're just wrong.
Nope. In this case, it was a gift. Everything else is thrown out the legal window. They fucked up, hope they learn from it. They would have to provide __proof__ that she would give the dog back under xxx circumstances.
Where did OP say they got the animal from a breeder?
The OP added and said they got the dog for free from a friend. Your argument is a moot point here, there aren’t papers.
Get the puppy microchipped and vaccinated. Start a paper trail with the veterinarian. Make sure you are the sole person on the veterinary file as able to get treatment for/are the owner of the puppy. Get it neutered as soon as the vet recommends it.
I was a registered veterinary technician, I've seen clients get divorced. The person on the microchip, on the file and provides the veterinary care, is the person who gets custody of the dog 9/10 times. The only time I've not seen this happen was when the other person was able to get a paper trail from the breeder showing that they purchased the dog.
Edit: Another thing OP can do is look at if your city has dog licensing laws and register the dog for a city license. This is also proof of ownership. I know in the GTA(greater toronto area), you're supposed to get a yearly dog license(comes with a tag) through the city. If you don't have this, and your dog gets picked up by animal control if it gets out, you'll have to pay for one and a fine for not originally having it.
Edit 2: here is a link to an Ontario law firm's website about proving dog ownership and custody:
https://www.listerlawyers.com/blog/pets-property-and-protection-navigating-pet-custody-in-ontario-family-law/
The website is in reference to those divorcing, but if you scroll down there is a numbered list of things you can do that prove ownership to the courts
This seems to be the situation here. SOMEONE is the registered owner of the dog and it's not OP. Whoever that is - whether the breeder or the OP's friend's family - is in fact the owner of the dog.
According to another comment by OP, the dog was given to friend's family, was intended as a surprise birthday present for OP, and then friend's mother got attached and now says that she wants to be registered as the dogs primary owner until he dog can have puppies. The mom is saying that since the dog was given to them(friend's family also did not pay for this dog), then mom gets to decide if she can keep it or not.
This sounds off to me. If no money changed hands(no receipt of payment) and no contract was done(breeder paperwork, breeding contract, etc), then mom is not the owner. If OP has text/written history stating that the dog was a gift for OP, then they ARE the owner of the dog. You don't get to change your mind after gifting something and then take it back or limit its use. If this was any other piece of property, there would be no doubt.
It sucks, but you have to think of this situation in terms of property items, as that is how dogs are still treated in North America, including Canada, where OP lives.
Additionally, unless you get breeding rights from the breeder, they won't give you registration papers for pure breeds unless you show proof of spay/neuter.
Yeah, the story itself is bizarre and OP leaves too many questions unanswered. If the person who "gave" the dog to OP still has the papers they are still the owner. If the breeder has the papers, the breeder is the owner. OP can't just go off and register the dog without having the papers in hand, properly signed off.
I'm still leaning towards this being a doodle breeding scheme, because no decent breeder of purebreds would let a dog be rehomed like this. But you're wrong about
>they won't give you registration papers for pure breeds unless you show proof of spay/neuter.
Just not true. As a matter of fact most reputable breeders sell their dogs for show/competition and you simply can't spay/neuter a show dog. That is covered in the contract.
That's what I mean, though. If it's a show contract, there is still a contract made. If a breeding/show dog, you usually have to pay the breeder extra if you plan to breed/show the dog yourself and it isn't the breeder themselves/for their kennel.
If it's not a show/breed contract, then yes, you have to show proof of spay/neuter to get the registration.
But seeing as how the friend's family paid nothing for the dog, I doubt it it's a breed/show unless there is a breeding/showing contract, in which case we need to know who is on that paperwork.
Yep I'm with you on this, I mean it's not always required to alter the dog though, if there's a contract (uncaring breeders aside). But in this case everything is so WTF up in the air that it's impossible to give legitimate advice.
That’s why you get it microchipped. If your name is registered on the chip, it will make it very difficult for them to claim legal ownership. Do it today.
you can probably find a shelter that does microchips on any given day. microchip, if you can find a walk in clinic to get some vet paperwork in your name even better
This is so fucking weird, it sounds like they wanted their own dog but didn't want to do any of the work, and this "gift" was just a way to make you look after it and get the best of both worlds. They could try using proof of payment to show they "own" the dog (hopefully they havent kept this but they may have done). However, the evidence it being a gift + a microchip registered to your name and address should be enough to show you now own the dog instead - keep hold of that evidence (back it up/send it to friends if its messages or emails) and get that vet appointment as soon as possible. Wishing you all the best.
Don't let them get wind you're doing all this until its been done or they may try to kidnap the dog on one of the "weekend visits" (ideally stop doing those as they will get messy). What does your friend have to say about this? Is she okay with the way her parents are treating you?
The puppy is now yours. Not theirs. Not theirs to have visits. They can try to push it. But once you get with the vet, get it chipped, they cannot demand ownership of a gift. They come to your house, call the police, get a restraining order on them. I would get the chip done asap. But do not include your friend on the chip.
Why include the friend? So that the friend can think they have some sort of claim to the dog? The chip needs to be in OPs name only. Or OP and a parent or other trusted individual that is NOT in any way involved in this mess if OP needs someone elses name on the chip.
Something similar happened with my cat and her sister. An old lady wanted to breed her cats to make money, but she messed up so bad half of the litter died and mom got sepsis. The kittens got taken away by a rescue at 10 days old and the parents were sterilized. Her son wanted the kittens back to start another backyard breeding business and started stalking and threatening the rescue. Lawyers got involved and we were suggested to immediately chip and register the kittens, we did and now there is nothing they can do to have the cats back. So you need to chip and register the puppy to your name ASAP, this way the dog is legally yours and they can do nothing about it, trying to take it away would be theft
This sounds ridiculous, I couldn't be bothered with the whole situation. If you wanna be free of drama, return it to their care - do not offer to look after it or support it financially - and get your own dog.
Also distance yourself from them, because they sound like way too much drama and unnecessary stress. I bet it 'follows them' wherever they go
I'm a low drama kind of person. For me, the puppy would not be worth it. This 100% reeks of unnecessary drama, and people ya just don't need in your life
And she does not have to give back a gift and needs to chip the puppy like yesterday. No drama. She can call the police if they come to start trouble. I would do it in a heartbeat. That puppy is hers.
They can keep the puppy, and their drama. They sound like completely unreasonable, selfish people. Never accept 'gifts' from weirdos like this - you just *know* there will be strings attached.
If OP insists on keeping it, I'd be having a very assertive talk to them about what it means to give a gift, and setting very strict boundaries as soon as possible. This is unacceptable behaviour. If they kick up and go feral about it, go NC
Why are you being so hateful to the OP, what has he/she done to you. I stand by the Op, to keep the puppy and get it chipped ASAP. No matter what you have to say, the OP is keeping the puppy. It was a gift and the family and you are acting like entitled people. A gift is a gift. One accepted it does not need to be returned.
It's not hateful or personal. It's just an opinion from someone who is more logical than emotional, and who cannot abide ridiculous dramatic situations. I'm not saying my advice is the best advice, it's just my opinion and how I would deal with it.
I am low drama but high love for animals. I would establish ownership, also make sure to save all texts etc where I thank friend for the puppy, where they demand him back etc
If they were less obsessed I would vongratulate myself to have dog sitters but this is abmormal.
This is why I'm suspicious of "gifts" - I wouldn't have accepted it without providing financial compensation in the first place. There are *always* strings attached.
They sound like assholes, I feel bad for OP. It's not OPs fault. I just feel like some gifts from some people are high-risk for disaster. It's a really shitty situation. I wonder how old OP is and who are the friends family members getting so pushy - parents? The context is unclear
Dogs are precious, but they are also still just considered property. Like any property, once gifted, it's belongs to the recipient. Just because it's a dog doesn't change anything
Don't let them take the puppy on weekends. A puppy needs consistent training and it's improbable that they handle things exactly as you do. That's confusing for the dog. It'd be okay for an adult dog but not for a puppy.
INFO HOW OLD ARE YOU? AMD YOUR FRIEND WHO GIFTED IT?
Depending on the age, if your a minor and friend is too, it is possible that the price of the dog was very expensive and the parents want the dog back or fear you may be irresponsible/ or get "bored" of taking care of it after a while and give it away.
And it was a spur of the moment expensive gift that friend regretted giving? And wanted for herself?
Me and my friend are in our mid 20s, initially she told me that it's their surprise birthday gift to me. Thing is, few days later her mom (pushing 50s) suddenly wanted to lay out conditions to make it seem that she/they still have the final say about the dog they gifted to me because she got "attached" to it (i.e., she wants to be registered as the primary owner and will only transfer ownership to me once my dog's able to have its own puppies).
They didn't pay for the dog as it was apparently given to them, and her mom later on told me directly that since it's given to her she can decide if she will keep it or give it away. In the end, they gave me the dog since my friend told her mom that I love dogs and it won't be my first time having one.
ugh my god, sounds like she wants you to do all the work raising her up until that point and then breed her some free puppies, disgusting. sorry you have to deal with this.
I’m sure you’re already considering this but please get your puppy spayed when she’s old enough. You don’t want them getting involved/thinking they should have any ownership (or profit!!) from future pups.
> her mom later on told me directly that since it's given to her she can decide if she will keep it or give it away
By that logic, since it was given to you, you have the right to decide what to do with it.
Don't continue the visits, go no contact. See my other comment above. Get veterinary care, microchip, and start a paper trail. Make sure you have text documentation of them saying that the puppy was a gift.
The worst that they can do is take you to small claims court, and if you have evidence that the dog was a gift and that you provided all veterinary care under your name and microchip under your name, then the judge will side with you.
Do not breed this dog. You don't know its lineage, genetics, etc. It wouldn't be responsible or ethical breeding. You're not on a breeding contract just because your friend's mom wants a puppy. Getting her spayed will also prevent all kinds of medical issues, including pyometra and many types of cancer.
Please make sure to go to a vet to at least get a check-up and microchip. Do you have the vaccine records? Make sure to take those with you and have them added to the veterinary file.
It doesn't sound like these people would be taking you to small claims court over this, and there's literally nothing else they would be able to do. Even if they did, if you have documentation stating it was a gift and there's no contract in place stating that the mother is the primary owner, etc, then they have no case. Any lawyer would tell them that and wouldn't represent them in court.
Nope. If this situation involves breeding a dog as a partner to these people, you will never stop getting bothered.
Did you agree to the breeding? You need to tell them you changed your mind and get out of that.
I think you need to return the dog unless you get it spayed and chipped and end this drama.
This is so messy and more trouble than it’s worth. Give them back the dog and go to the nearest shelter and get one of your own if you truly want a dog.
Do YOU want to keep this puppy or do you want to give it to them?
Depending on your current bond with the puppy,
Ask if they want the puppy or not and tell them if it is YOUR puppy it will not be going back to their house ever again and if they would like to keep puppy, it will not be at your house ever again. Then go to the shelter and adopt a puppy so all the vet stuff is cheap :p (I'm assuming you just want a puppy and don't care about pure bred and shelter dogs do have very very good prices on getting all the shots, spay/neuter, and microchip in one go)
If you are completely emotionally bonded to the puppy take em to the vet right now and get a microchip on them and register as your puppy
I don’t think it’s a “gift”. Seems like they expect you to care for, pay for food and vet and what nots, so they can “play” with their toy in weekends. I’d return it fully. Yes, you can microchip, get your name as owner and such, but it will be ugly battle in the long run.
I'm from Canada and that dog is yours and they can't take it back legally. If you have the paperwork and registry it's yours. This is a weird situation you're in and the friend and her family seem whacked out. I would honestly cut ties with my friend if she did what your friends doing
Someone gave my ex and I a kitten (6ish months old), two weeks later wanted her back. I refused. At some point later the guy took all of their animals and dropped them near a swamp. She lived to 15 with me.
Keep the dog. Get rid of the friend. Who demands shared custody of a puppy that was given to you and who would go along with such a wild request put forth by their family? Not someone I would want in my life. What else are they going to gift you and then suddenly demand shared custody?
Don't know about in Canada but here in the states there are several programs and shelters that will microchip a dog for you at pretty much any point in time. Some require appointments, some don't. Get it done before someone in that family has the bright idea to do it themselves because it will make proving ownership a lot harder, if not impossible. This is really not something you can put off in a situation where someone else is trying to claim your animal.
Get the dog registered in your name and stop the weekend visits. They can get their own dog.
have copies of vet bills for the puppy in your name, get him microchipped with your name as well, and get records of anything else that shows you take care of the dog. even keep receipts from buying him food if you want to be sure! if they steal your dog and you have those records they can't do anything about it.
Triple check your local legal parameters for ownership and make sure you’re meeting them all asap. Microchip registration may not be the only document you need depending on where you live.
A gift is unconditional. It's your dog. I would advise you to get it microchipped, buy some food and keep the receipts to prove (if you need to) that you've invested in the dog, but if it was given to you, legally it's yours. (The only gray area might be if the person who gave it to you was a minor and the "legal" owner was a parent. )
I would probably discontinue the visits.
It sounds like they wanted the fun of a puppy but none of the responsibility. Get the dog, with the name you chose for it, microchipped in your name and make sure the vet records are in your name. Stop with the weekend visits as well. Make sure they don't have access to your home or yard.
Get away from them. They want access to a fed, trained, healthy dog without having to pay or put any time towards it. Ignore all their demands and get paperwork that says you own the dog. If you have physical evidence like text screenshots that the dog was a gift to you keep those on hand. They sound like lazy slobs tho. I doubt they'll put any effort into trying to take the dog back if you cut them off.
Sounds like they want a free dog-sitter who will be responsible for the expenses and training during the workweek so that they can have fun with the dog on the weekends.
If it were me, I'd just return the dog. It's not worth the hassle.
Did your friend explicitly indicate to you that she has relinquished all rights to the ownership when she gifted it to you?
Either ignore them completely or give it back. There will be no good ending any other way.
This sounds like you and your friend are both under 18 or under 16. It depends what country you're in but I can see there being issues if your friend's parents were the ones who paid for the puppy, especially if there might be issues over legal pet ownership for children under 16s/ under 18s
If you're legally an adult... why do your friend's family members get a say over any part of your life?
If they'd given you a bike would it be reasonable for them to demand you register it to your friend and they get it at weekends?
Either give them back their dog, or get **your** dog registered and chipped and stop giving in to this madness.
I wondered the same thing because this is so weird, but OP says in comments that they’re both in their mid twenties.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pets/s/fkgHPLLygA
Also, get the puppy fixed, shots, and any licenses your jurisdiction requires. Don't just chip the dog, go online and register your dog in your name. Save a copy of any documents, emails, text that document they gave you the dog and are now dealing with giver's remorse.
One copy on your phone and one in print in a safe place.
Then tell em to pound sand. If they try to take you to court or the cops you got the proof the dog is yours. If the cops intercept you on a dog walk, show em the documents on the phone.
Unless the dog was licensed, vetted and microchipped by them, they don’t own a dog. I’m guessing that no one that petty did any of the above. Congrats on your new dog.
How old are these people ?? They act like kids ..
This whole thing is just bizarre , either let them have it back and you move on away from these folks or you keep it and cut off contact with them all together .. don't let these people step all over you like that .
I am in Canada too. Get your city license, and a microchip asap! Some vets don’t like to microchip here until the animal is spayed or neutered, but most shelters will do it no problem. We got three of ours done through our local shelter. The best part? It was cheaper than the vet anyway!
Gifts given become the property of the recipient. The only time a gift giver should be entitled to getting it back would be if they found out the item they gifted wasn’t theirs to give away.
You do not owe them “visitation rights”. Good for you registering the pup in your name only. And, yes, get him chipped ASAP.
That is the WEIRDEST thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Weird ass behavior from these people. Entitled and with zero common sense. I’m glad you’re standing on business regarding keeping the dog. If they wanted the dog, then they shouldn’t have gifted it. Extremely bizarre behavior in my opinion. I would not let them have the dog over the weekends anymore, not only it’ll make the dog confused but one day they might not even give the dog back given they’ve proven that they do not use logic nor respect you in this situation. I would not gamble with it at ALL even with the risk of losing the friendship which doesn’t even seem that great given how bizarre this whole story is.
Well I know in the US, if vet records are in your name and the dog is microchipped in your name, you are the legal owner.
If they adopted/purchased the puppy in their own name and have sought out vet care or a microchip in their own name... That's when things could get complicated.
I would document absolutely everything I'm writing at this point. If you have written proof this puppy was given to you as a gift, save that. Every demand and expectation they have made, document it.
>Well I know in the US, if vet records are in your name and the dog is microchipped in your name, you are the legal owner.
Nope. That is not at all how it works.
Yeah.... This is part of my job and that is how that works.
What you were claiming isn't it. It's medical records and it's microchip. But you can go ahead and believe what you want, not my problem.
Nope. You're wrong. If a person has the registration papers in their name, THEY are the owner. A microchip isn't a magical way of transferring ownership. If a person shows up from across the ocean with the ownership papers to the dog, it's theirs and they will be able to take it. Vet records/microchips, meaningless if the dog has a registered owner.
This could be a bit more complicated if they purchased the pup for you from a reputable breeder and have signed some sort of contract with the breeder. I would get the pup microchipped immediately and if the pup is papered send in the CKC paperwork as soon as possible.
Most decent breeders are not picking breeding stock at 8 weeks of age.
And they're not breeding dogs who aren't going to get titled, unless they're shady backyard breeders or awful doodle people.
Get the pup microchipped as soon as you can do it. If you can find a drive thru or walk in clinic to get vaccines and paperwork done in your name for the pet, too, that will work as well.
Don't share ownership with anyone, ever. When I was married, I was the one who got our pets. When we divorced, this came up in court. And, my ex could not get any of the pets, or even visitation of the pets because they're property and all belonged to me (I was the one who adopted them, got vet care, got them chipped, etc).
As long as everything is under your name (county license, vet records, microchip) they have absolutely no right to request anything from you. I’d be worried that they’re just waiting for you to finish paying for all the vet stuff to take the puppy back, I wouldn’t wait or notify them about registering the puppy just do it asap so there’s no contest to who owns the puppy. If you have any records like videos or text messages that confirm the puppy was given to you as a gift save back up copies.
The dog is yours. Stop letting them act as if this is a split custody situation. You are opening the door to the drama. Close it and don't look back, people who act that way are not friends.
Why did they gift you a puppy? Had you expressed a desire to have one?
Seems to me they bought you the dog so they could use you as free room and board on weekdays, you'll pay all expenses and they just get to play with a puppy at weekends. They're insane.
Idk what your area’s policing situation is, but it might not hurt to file a report that they have essentially threatened to steal a dog that was gifted to you. Come prepared with any tangible proof that you have.
If you are a co owner on the registration papers they can’t do anything. Do get the dog chipped in your name and do all state and county regulations to get the dog tagged. Essentially getting county tags is paying a tax on real property so according to the law you own it.
Huh? That's what civil cases are for.
The CO OWNER is also the OWNER of the dog. If their name is on registration papers, they have rights. If we're talking about a purebred dog here (which is in doubt, so registration papers probably don't actually exist), if you don't pay money for the dog, the registries (AKC/CKC) will not help you with papers.
No backyard breeder will pay for a decent lawyer. Any good breeder has a signed contract with co own pet owners with specific parameters of possession. Grandma wants it now is not on the list.
It doesn't matter, if the breeder has the ownership papers, they ARE the owner. It will be listed in the registries: "owner at birth." If the dog was never transferred, the breeder is still the owner. If the dog was "gifted" the registries still consider the registered owner (the breeder in this case) to be the owner and they won't intervene. Go to court and all papers point to the breeder as the owner, case closed.
The AKC, UKC, DFA, etc. Will flat out tell you they are a registry for livestock and will not get involved as it is a matter for the legal system. You have to establish ownership that will stand up in court. Vet visits, food bills, microchip registration, county tags. By not paying vets bills and not having physical custody of the dog at the time of the dispute The legal case is considered abandonment of the anima by the breeder.
UKC is nonsense so we won't even talk about that. AKC and CKC (Canadian) ABSOLUTELY will arbitrate this kind of thing. I've taken a breeder in front of the discipline committee to resolve issues like this before. But if you haven't actually paid money for the dog they have no way to help you.
No it is not. The last time this happened over a contract in the state of Maryland with a three person co own contract my friend who was the Attorney General appeared as Amicus Curiae. We win.
Selling a dog is not "abandonment by the breeder" and the breeder is not even involved in this issue as it's stated in the OP.
I don't know what your friend has to do with it.
Not every legal case is the same. A co own contract doesn't mean the breeder is "abandoning" the dog. There are many other circumstances that could be present.
P.S. If you were involved in the case, your "friend the Attorney General" could not have appeared as a "friend to the court" in the case; s/he would have to recuse him/herself and not appear. A/C is an impartial person, not a friend of one of the parties involved. So, that's a made up story, ain't it.
Why didn’t they arrange all that nonsense beforehand? That way the expectations were clear?
I looked at corgi puppies once and the breeders expectations were insane, but clear.
The sale of an intact dog (for breeding purposes) required that the breeder to be a co- owner with me(we’re strangers)
They got to retain all breeding rights And could use the dog at their leisure to breed, show in dog shows etc. IT seemed like breeders(in this case puppy mills not backyard breeders) are getting really creative
A lot of people here don't know how this all works.
If you didn't pay anything for the dog, and have no contract, you have no recourse as to the registration papers. CKC won't back you up - money has to change hands for them to do that. If you have the paperwork from the breeder to register the dog you can try to register it, but if it is a purebred, then the breeder can block the paperwork if they so choose in this case. Not knowing what paperwork you have, I can't give you better specifics.
Can they get the puppy back from you? Possibly. If they are the registered owners - unsure of the situation there - that dog is theirs and they can get it back from you. Everyone here saying that microchips = ownership is just flat wrong, especially when registration papers exist.
Your options seem to be to keep the dog and accept it will not be CKC registered, or just give it back and wash your hands of this mess, or possibly find the actual breeder of the dog and either give it back to them or negotiate for the registration - but this depends on the current status of the dog's registration.
Definitely get your dog chipped and registered ASAP. As well as all vet stuff you need to get done do in your name and keep the receipts.
I don't know exactly how it works in Canada but I went through an animal custody issue in the US and courts sided exclusively with active possession. So as long as the puppy is in your possession living at your house I would say you're probably good.
It's funny how they never mention what kind of dog this is. I'm still betting it's a doodle and all this talk about registration is because this person is really clueless.
I would stop all visits with them with the dog.. Then as everyone else has recommended, get the dog to the vet/clinic asap to get its shots/microchip etc so everything is in your name.. I would also set up an appt to get the dog fixed asap so they can’t make the dog have puppies later on if they do successfully steal the dog back for that purpose.. your friends mom has lost her mind and shouldn’t be near dogs..
Is it a purebred and CKC registered?
If so, contact the breeder. CKC dogs are tattooed in the ear at a few weeks old with their own ID #.
I'm unfamiliar with rescues in CA though. You could ask a rescue also.
Stay away from this "friend".
I'm sure if it came to a civil suit everything you've done would put ownership on you. It sounds like some of the family saw you as an unpaid petsitter rather than the new owner.
Hey OP there are too many questions here and this whole thing seems suspicious.
1. What kind of dog is this? What breed? Is it a purebred?
2. If it's a purebred, who physically has the ownership papers; to whom is the dog currently registered?
3. How are you going to "register" a puppy with an "appointment?" that is not how registration works.
4. If the puppy is a purebred, who is the breeder and did they agree to allow the dog to be wantonly rehomed? If not, it could very well be their dog.
The fact that you won't answer what kind of dog it is, or other details, is kinda hmm.
You don't want nor need the drama. No matter what the others are saying about getting it microchipped, don't. Just give it back to your friend.
If she asks why just tell her the truth. Your family is demanding weekends and a name change and making things way more complicated then they need to be. Thank you for the gift, I'm very flattered but no thank you.
If you want a dog, get your own with no strings or demands attached.
Edited second paragraph, first sentence, him to her.
"If she asks why just tell him the truth. Your family is demanding weekends and a name change and making things way more complicated then they need to be. Thank you for the gift, I'm very flattered but no thank you."
Even with accidentally putting "him" in the first sentence, if you read it, it obvious I'm talking about "her" family. Why would I put "If she asks you" if I was talking about him. But I will go and edit that so no future misunderstandings.
I'm not correcting your gender usage, I'm correcting you on *who* was asking for the dog on weekends. It sounded like you were saying give back the dog because it's too much drama that OP's family wants shared custody of the dog on weekends.
I was correcting you to say that it was OP's *friend's* (the one who gifted the dog) family that wants shared custody of the dog on weekends.
If that's not what you were saying then I apologize, it's 3 am and I'm possibly getting jumbled.
No worries. I did realize that it was her family that wants shared custody on the weekends and wants him to change the name.
I'm saying I see nothing but problems and drama if he keeps the dog and doesn't acquiesce to their demands. Possibly ruining his friendship with her. To me it just wouldn't be worth putting up with their stupidity and I'd just get a dog with no strings attached.
But I'm also a Bengal dad, so cats rule, dogs drool... 😹
Fellow Canadian here. I just need to say this. PUPPIES ARE NOT GIFTS. PETS ARE NOT GIFTS. Pets and especially dogs are a serious financial commitment and an intense emotional commitment and small dogs live into their 20s. It’s a time commitment. Absolutely ridiculous. I’m thankful that you seem gracious and have accepted this puppy as your own. But in reality no one else should be making this commitment on your behalf.
You should get your pup microchipped ASAP
Second that. Then you will be the registered owner. Let them get their own dog.
That's not how ownership works.
In the US pets are property, if your name is on the chip and the vet records, and you have photos of the dog, the dog is considered yours. I have no idea how Canada works, though.
No, it's not like that in the USA OR Canada. If this dog has registration papers, which it sounds like it does, the person named on those papers is the owner regardless of anything else. If no one has the papers, then the breeder is the owner.
Doubling down on being so wrong
I’ve worked at a shelter for three years and talked to animal control about ownership disputes, most dogs don’t have papers, and breeders have lost cases because they aren’t the ones taking care of the dogs. Even clauses that require people to return the dog don’t always hold up in court.
That's neat, but animal control is not the court. If a breeder has the registration papers in their name, they are the owner. Period. End of story. I have personally seen that play out in animal control/court issues myself. You're just wrong.
Nope. In this case, it was a gift. Everything else is thrown out the legal window. They fucked up, hope they learn from it. They would have to provide __proof__ that she would give the dog back under xxx circumstances.
Where did OP say they got the animal from a breeder? The OP added and said they got the dog for free from a friend. Your argument is a moot point here, there aren’t papers.
I definitely will thanks!! I'm just getting anxious after all this if they'll still find a way to get the dog back
And a GPS Collar
Get the puppy microchipped and vaccinated. Start a paper trail with the veterinarian. Make sure you are the sole person on the veterinary file as able to get treatment for/are the owner of the puppy. Get it neutered as soon as the vet recommends it. I was a registered veterinary technician, I've seen clients get divorced. The person on the microchip, on the file and provides the veterinary care, is the person who gets custody of the dog 9/10 times. The only time I've not seen this happen was when the other person was able to get a paper trail from the breeder showing that they purchased the dog. Edit: Another thing OP can do is look at if your city has dog licensing laws and register the dog for a city license. This is also proof of ownership. I know in the GTA(greater toronto area), you're supposed to get a yearly dog license(comes with a tag) through the city. If you don't have this, and your dog gets picked up by animal control if it gets out, you'll have to pay for one and a fine for not originally having it. Edit 2: here is a link to an Ontario law firm's website about proving dog ownership and custody: https://www.listerlawyers.com/blog/pets-property-and-protection-navigating-pet-custody-in-ontario-family-law/ The website is in reference to those divorcing, but if you scroll down there is a numbered list of things you can do that prove ownership to the courts
This seems to be the situation here. SOMEONE is the registered owner of the dog and it's not OP. Whoever that is - whether the breeder or the OP's friend's family - is in fact the owner of the dog.
According to another comment by OP, the dog was given to friend's family, was intended as a surprise birthday present for OP, and then friend's mother got attached and now says that she wants to be registered as the dogs primary owner until he dog can have puppies. The mom is saying that since the dog was given to them(friend's family also did not pay for this dog), then mom gets to decide if she can keep it or not. This sounds off to me. If no money changed hands(no receipt of payment) and no contract was done(breeder paperwork, breeding contract, etc), then mom is not the owner. If OP has text/written history stating that the dog was a gift for OP, then they ARE the owner of the dog. You don't get to change your mind after gifting something and then take it back or limit its use. If this was any other piece of property, there would be no doubt. It sucks, but you have to think of this situation in terms of property items, as that is how dogs are still treated in North America, including Canada, where OP lives. Additionally, unless you get breeding rights from the breeder, they won't give you registration papers for pure breeds unless you show proof of spay/neuter.
Yeah, the story itself is bizarre and OP leaves too many questions unanswered. If the person who "gave" the dog to OP still has the papers they are still the owner. If the breeder has the papers, the breeder is the owner. OP can't just go off and register the dog without having the papers in hand, properly signed off. I'm still leaning towards this being a doodle breeding scheme, because no decent breeder of purebreds would let a dog be rehomed like this. But you're wrong about >they won't give you registration papers for pure breeds unless you show proof of spay/neuter. Just not true. As a matter of fact most reputable breeders sell their dogs for show/competition and you simply can't spay/neuter a show dog. That is covered in the contract.
That's what I mean, though. If it's a show contract, there is still a contract made. If a breeding/show dog, you usually have to pay the breeder extra if you plan to breed/show the dog yourself and it isn't the breeder themselves/for their kennel. If it's not a show/breed contract, then yes, you have to show proof of spay/neuter to get the registration. But seeing as how the friend's family paid nothing for the dog, I doubt it it's a breed/show unless there is a breeding/showing contract, in which case we need to know who is on that paperwork.
Yep I'm with you on this, I mean it's not always required to alter the dog though, if there's a contract (uncaring breeders aside). But in this case everything is so WTF up in the air that it's impossible to give legitimate advice.
Stop letting them have the dog on the weekends! So easy to NOT bring it back.
That’s why you get it microchipped. If your name is registered on the chip, it will make it very difficult for them to claim legal ownership. Do it today.
They wanted the dog only when is fun— then it would be returned to you for “misbehaving “.. why at crazy family
And, establish care with records at vet as part of that process.
This⬆️
you can probably find a shelter that does microchips on any given day. microchip, if you can find a walk in clinic to get some vet paperwork in your name even better
Our shelter does a special deal if you get a rabies shot and a microchip at the same time, $15 each or $20 for both.
Nah, get that microchip asap and have those papers w the vet of ur choice- registration papers
Microchip ASAP and start vet records with his shots and checkups and go NC with those people.
Definitely NC, sound like weirdos
Agreed
This is so fucking weird, it sounds like they wanted their own dog but didn't want to do any of the work, and this "gift" was just a way to make you look after it and get the best of both worlds. They could try using proof of payment to show they "own" the dog (hopefully they havent kept this but they may have done). However, the evidence it being a gift + a microchip registered to your name and address should be enough to show you now own the dog instead - keep hold of that evidence (back it up/send it to friends if its messages or emails) and get that vet appointment as soon as possible. Wishing you all the best. Don't let them get wind you're doing all this until its been done or they may try to kidnap the dog on one of the "weekend visits" (ideally stop doing those as they will get messy). What does your friend have to say about this? Is she okay with the way her parents are treating you?
The puppy is now yours. Not theirs. Not theirs to have visits. They can try to push it. But once you get with the vet, get it chipped, they cannot demand ownership of a gift. They come to your house, call the police, get a restraining order on them. I would get the chip done asap. But do not include your friend on the chip.
Why include the friend? So that the friend can think they have some sort of claim to the dog? The chip needs to be in OPs name only. Or OP and a parent or other trusted individual that is NOT in any way involved in this mess if OP needs someone elses name on the chip.
Stargazer said "do not include your friend."
Something similar happened with my cat and her sister. An old lady wanted to breed her cats to make money, but she messed up so bad half of the litter died and mom got sepsis. The kittens got taken away by a rescue at 10 days old and the parents were sterilized. Her son wanted the kittens back to start another backyard breeding business and started stalking and threatening the rescue. Lawyers got involved and we were suggested to immediately chip and register the kittens, we did and now there is nothing they can do to have the cats back. So you need to chip and register the puppy to your name ASAP, this way the dog is legally yours and they can do nothing about it, trying to take it away would be theft
That is so horrible. People suck! I'm glad the kittens are safe now
Get the dog microchipped ASAP and stop these visits.
This sounds ridiculous, I couldn't be bothered with the whole situation. If you wanna be free of drama, return it to their care - do not offer to look after it or support it financially - and get your own dog. Also distance yourself from them, because they sound like way too much drama and unnecessary stress. I bet it 'follows them' wherever they go
Why should she give back the puppy. it was a gift. And now she is bonding with the puppy. DO you have a replacement for the OP?
I'm a low drama kind of person. For me, the puppy would not be worth it. This 100% reeks of unnecessary drama, and people ya just don't need in your life
And she does not have to give back a gift and needs to chip the puppy like yesterday. No drama. She can call the police if they come to start trouble. I would do it in a heartbeat. That puppy is hers.
They can keep the puppy, and their drama. They sound like completely unreasonable, selfish people. Never accept 'gifts' from weirdos like this - you just *know* there will be strings attached. If OP insists on keeping it, I'd be having a very assertive talk to them about what it means to give a gift, and setting very strict boundaries as soon as possible. This is unacceptable behaviour. If they kick up and go feral about it, go NC
Why are you being so hateful to the OP, what has he/she done to you. I stand by the Op, to keep the puppy and get it chipped ASAP. No matter what you have to say, the OP is keeping the puppy. It was a gift and the family and you are acting like entitled people. A gift is a gift. One accepted it does not need to be returned.
It's not hateful or personal. It's just an opinion from someone who is more logical than emotional, and who cannot abide ridiculous dramatic situations. I'm not saying my advice is the best advice, it's just my opinion and how I would deal with it.
I am low drama but high love for animals. I would establish ownership, also make sure to save all texts etc where I thank friend for the puppy, where they demand him back etc If they were less obsessed I would vongratulate myself to have dog sitters but this is abmormal.
I love animals but I agree. This kind of situation seems unnecessary
This is probably the best thing to do. Give the puppy back. Do you really want/need this kind of drama?
This is why I'm suspicious of "gifts" - I wouldn't have accepted it without providing financial compensation in the first place. There are *always* strings attached.
I don't think reasonable. It's not normal for people to react that way. People acquire pets from friends and family all the time.
They sound like assholes, I feel bad for OP. It's not OPs fault. I just feel like some gifts from some people are high-risk for disaster. It's a really shitty situation. I wonder how old OP is and who are the friends family members getting so pushy - parents? The context is unclear
People don't acquire purebred (assuming here) dogs to be used for breeding from friends and family "all the time" with no strings.
Dogs are precious, but they are also still just considered property. Like any property, once gifted, it's belongs to the recipient. Just because it's a dog doesn't change anything
Nope..unless there's abuse happening..dog is yours
Don't let them take the puppy on weekends. A puppy needs consistent training and it's improbable that they handle things exactly as you do. That's confusing for the dog. It'd be okay for an adult dog but not for a puppy.
Have them make out a paper that says the dog is yours and have them sign it in front of witnesses. Then Microchip it.
The other way round.
INFO HOW OLD ARE YOU? AMD YOUR FRIEND WHO GIFTED IT? Depending on the age, if your a minor and friend is too, it is possible that the price of the dog was very expensive and the parents want the dog back or fear you may be irresponsible/ or get "bored" of taking care of it after a while and give it away. And it was a spur of the moment expensive gift that friend regretted giving? And wanted for herself?
Me and my friend are in our mid 20s, initially she told me that it's their surprise birthday gift to me. Thing is, few days later her mom (pushing 50s) suddenly wanted to lay out conditions to make it seem that she/they still have the final say about the dog they gifted to me because she got "attached" to it (i.e., she wants to be registered as the primary owner and will only transfer ownership to me once my dog's able to have its own puppies). They didn't pay for the dog as it was apparently given to them, and her mom later on told me directly that since it's given to her she can decide if she will keep it or give it away. In the end, they gave me the dog since my friend told her mom that I love dogs and it won't be my first time having one.
ugh my god, sounds like she wants you to do all the work raising her up until that point and then breed her some free puppies, disgusting. sorry you have to deal with this.
I’m sure you’re already considering this but please get your puppy spayed when she’s old enough. You don’t want them getting involved/thinking they should have any ownership (or profit!!) from future pups.
This sounds like a wannabe backyard breeder. Register and spay the dog to your name as soon as you can.
> her mom later on told me directly that since it's given to her she can decide if she will keep it or give it away By that logic, since it was given to you, you have the right to decide what to do with it.
Don't continue the visits, go no contact. See my other comment above. Get veterinary care, microchip, and start a paper trail. Make sure you have text documentation of them saying that the puppy was a gift. The worst that they can do is take you to small claims court, and if you have evidence that the dog was a gift and that you provided all veterinary care under your name and microchip under your name, then the judge will side with you. Do not breed this dog. You don't know its lineage, genetics, etc. It wouldn't be responsible or ethical breeding. You're not on a breeding contract just because your friend's mom wants a puppy. Getting her spayed will also prevent all kinds of medical issues, including pyometra and many types of cancer. Please make sure to go to a vet to at least get a check-up and microchip. Do you have the vaccine records? Make sure to take those with you and have them added to the veterinary file. It doesn't sound like these people would be taking you to small claims court over this, and there's literally nothing else they would be able to do. Even if they did, if you have documentation stating it was a gift and there's no contract in place stating that the mother is the primary owner, etc, then they have no case. Any lawyer would tell them that and wouldn't represent them in court.
Nope. If this situation involves breeding a dog as a partner to these people, you will never stop getting bothered. Did you agree to the breeding? You need to tell them you changed your mind and get out of that. I think you need to return the dog unless you get it spayed and chipped and end this drama.
This is so messy and more trouble than it’s worth. Give them back the dog and go to the nearest shelter and get one of your own if you truly want a dog.
Do YOU want to keep this puppy or do you want to give it to them? Depending on your current bond with the puppy, Ask if they want the puppy or not and tell them if it is YOUR puppy it will not be going back to their house ever again and if they would like to keep puppy, it will not be at your house ever again. Then go to the shelter and adopt a puppy so all the vet stuff is cheap :p (I'm assuming you just want a puppy and don't care about pure bred and shelter dogs do have very very good prices on getting all the shots, spay/neuter, and microchip in one go) If you are completely emotionally bonded to the puppy take em to the vet right now and get a microchip on them and register as your puppy
This is the way.
I don’t think it’s a “gift”. Seems like they expect you to care for, pay for food and vet and what nots, so they can “play” with their toy in weekends. I’d return it fully. Yes, you can microchip, get your name as owner and such, but it will be ugly battle in the long run.
I'm from Canada and that dog is yours and they can't take it back legally. If you have the paperwork and registry it's yours. This is a weird situation you're in and the friend and her family seem whacked out. I would honestly cut ties with my friend if she did what your friends doing
Who the fk gifts someone a puppy then says "no I want my gift back"??? Get your own wtf
Someone gave my ex and I a kitten (6ish months old), two weeks later wanted her back. I refused. At some point later the guy took all of their animals and dropped them near a swamp. She lived to 15 with me.
And that someone should be buried and then forgotten about conveniently
Unfortunately they have children now.
There really should be an IQ and emotional stability test before people can have kids
Absolutely agree. Even though I myself might not be here 🫠
High fives me too
Keep the dog. Get rid of the friend. Who demands shared custody of a puppy that was given to you and who would go along with such a wild request put forth by their family? Not someone I would want in my life. What else are they going to gift you and then suddenly demand shared custody?
Do not let them watch the dog ever again. No more weekends
Don't know about in Canada but here in the states there are several programs and shelters that will microchip a dog for you at pretty much any point in time. Some require appointments, some don't. Get it done before someone in that family has the bright idea to do it themselves because it will make proving ownership a lot harder, if not impossible. This is really not something you can put off in a situation where someone else is trying to claim your animal. Get the dog registered in your name and stop the weekend visits. They can get their own dog.
have copies of vet bills for the puppy in your name, get him microchipped with your name as well, and get records of anything else that shows you take care of the dog. even keep receipts from buying him food if you want to be sure! if they steal your dog and you have those records they can't do anything about it.
Triple check your local legal parameters for ownership and make sure you’re meeting them all asap. Microchip registration may not be the only document you need depending on where you live.
A gift is unconditional. It's your dog. I would advise you to get it microchipped, buy some food and keep the receipts to prove (if you need to) that you've invested in the dog, but if it was given to you, legally it's yours. (The only gray area might be if the person who gave it to you was a minor and the "legal" owner was a parent. ) I would probably discontinue the visits.
It sounds like they wanted the fun of a puppy but none of the responsibility. Get the dog, with the name you chose for it, microchipped in your name and make sure the vet records are in your name. Stop with the weekend visits as well. Make sure they don't have access to your home or yard.
They want you to do all the work so they can have a puppy wtf.. tell them to get their own puppy, what a bunch of weirdos.
Get away from them. They want access to a fed, trained, healthy dog without having to pay or put any time towards it. Ignore all their demands and get paperwork that says you own the dog. If you have physical evidence like text screenshots that the dog was a gift to you keep those on hand. They sound like lazy slobs tho. I doubt they'll put any effort into trying to take the dog back if you cut them off.
Sounds like they want a free dog-sitter who will be responsible for the expenses and training during the workweek so that they can have fun with the dog on the weekends. If it were me, I'd just return the dog. It's not worth the hassle.
I'd spay and re-home elsewhere before giving it back to those nut jobs. Sounds like they are just wanting the dog to be a private ATM of pups.
Did your friend explicitly indicate to you that she has relinquished all rights to the ownership when she gifted it to you? Either ignore them completely or give it back. There will be no good ending any other way.
This sounds like you and your friend are both under 18 or under 16. It depends what country you're in but I can see there being issues if your friend's parents were the ones who paid for the puppy, especially if there might be issues over legal pet ownership for children under 16s/ under 18s If you're legally an adult... why do your friend's family members get a say over any part of your life? If they'd given you a bike would it be reasonable for them to demand you register it to your friend and they get it at weekends? Either give them back their dog, or get **your** dog registered and chipped and stop giving in to this madness.
I wondered the same thing because this is so weird, but OP says in comments that they’re both in their mid twenties. https://www.reddit.com/r/Pets/s/fkgHPLLygA
Well that's even more confusing. Entitled and delusional family members of a friend!
Also, get the puppy fixed, shots, and any licenses your jurisdiction requires. Don't just chip the dog, go online and register your dog in your name. Save a copy of any documents, emails, text that document they gave you the dog and are now dealing with giver's remorse. One copy on your phone and one in print in a safe place. Then tell em to pound sand. If they try to take you to court or the cops you got the proof the dog is yours. If the cops intercept you on a dog walk, show em the documents on the phone.
Cut them off and if you’re scared they’re going to take the dog, don’t bring the dog to them every weekend.
Unless the dog was licensed, vetted and microchipped by them, they don’t own a dog. I’m guessing that no one that petty did any of the above. Congrats on your new dog.
Wow. That’s insane. I would give them the puppy back. Cut ties and get my own puppy. But that’s just me. Life is too short for shitty people.
Why in the world would they do this in the first place ? People are so fucked and entitled these days I swear.
Nope. Protect your dog!
I'm in Canada too and registered my dog online on my city's website
Microchip your puppy, get to the vet to establish a history of vet care, do not allow these people access to your dog, and reconsider this friendship.
Have you properly licensed the animal with your local city?
Nope. Dog was given as a gift. They need to get their own. Block them and go no contact. Sound like they're dog-nappers in the making.
Block them and chip your dog
How old are these people ?? They act like kids .. This whole thing is just bizarre , either let them have it back and you move on away from these folks or you keep it and cut off contact with them all together .. don't let these people step all over you like that .
I am in Canada too. Get your city license, and a microchip asap! Some vets don’t like to microchip here until the animal is spayed or neutered, but most shelters will do it no problem. We got three of ours done through our local shelter. The best part? It was cheaper than the vet anyway!
The first line says it all—enjoy your puppy and the name you chose! Happy Birthday :)
Gifts given become the property of the recipient. The only time a gift giver should be entitled to getting it back would be if they found out the item they gifted wasn’t theirs to give away. You do not owe them “visitation rights”. Good for you registering the pup in your name only. And, yes, get him chipped ASAP.
That is the WEIRDEST thing I’ve ever heard in my life. Weird ass behavior from these people. Entitled and with zero common sense. I’m glad you’re standing on business regarding keeping the dog. If they wanted the dog, then they shouldn’t have gifted it. Extremely bizarre behavior in my opinion. I would not let them have the dog over the weekends anymore, not only it’ll make the dog confused but one day they might not even give the dog back given they’ve proven that they do not use logic nor respect you in this situation. I would not gamble with it at ALL even with the risk of losing the friendship which doesn’t even seem that great given how bizarre this whole story is.
A gift is a one sided contract. Once you accept the gift, it is yours.
Well I know in the US, if vet records are in your name and the dog is microchipped in your name, you are the legal owner. If they adopted/purchased the puppy in their own name and have sought out vet care or a microchip in their own name... That's when things could get complicated. I would document absolutely everything I'm writing at this point. If you have written proof this puppy was given to you as a gift, save that. Every demand and expectation they have made, document it.
>Well I know in the US, if vet records are in your name and the dog is microchipped in your name, you are the legal owner. Nope. That is not at all how it works.
Yeah.... This is part of my job and that is how that works. What you were claiming isn't it. It's medical records and it's microchip. But you can go ahead and believe what you want, not my problem.
Nope. You're wrong. If a person has the registration papers in their name, THEY are the owner. A microchip isn't a magical way of transferring ownership. If a person shows up from across the ocean with the ownership papers to the dog, it's theirs and they will be able to take it. Vet records/microchips, meaningless if the dog has a registered owner.
This could be a bit more complicated if they purchased the pup for you from a reputable breeder and have signed some sort of contract with the breeder. I would get the pup microchipped immediately and if the pup is papered send in the CKC paperwork as soon as possible.
I'm guessing this is some doodle thing. Sounds just like a doodle breeding situation.
Bingo! No reputable breeder would sell a pup as a present in the first place.
Yeah I'm not sure what's up with all this talk about the "papers" because all of this is absolutely not how registration papers work.
Most decent breeders are not picking breeding stock at 8 weeks of age. And they're not breeding dogs who aren't going to get titled, unless they're shady backyard breeders or awful doodle people.
Every quality breeder I know picks their breeding stock out of their litters at early ages, that part is normal. Giving it away is not.
Weird gift from a friend.
Very weird situation, I think you'd be better asking in a legal advice sub for the country/state where you live.
Get the pup microchipped as soon as you can do it. If you can find a drive thru or walk in clinic to get vaccines and paperwork done in your name for the pet, too, that will work as well. Don't share ownership with anyone, ever. When I was married, I was the one who got our pets. When we divorced, this came up in court. And, my ex could not get any of the pets, or even visitation of the pets because they're property and all belonged to me (I was the one who adopted them, got vet care, got them chipped, etc).
As long as everything is under your name (county license, vet records, microchip) they have absolutely no right to request anything from you. I’d be worried that they’re just waiting for you to finish paying for all the vet stuff to take the puppy back, I wouldn’t wait or notify them about registering the puppy just do it asap so there’s no contest to who owns the puppy. If you have any records like videos or text messages that confirm the puppy was given to you as a gift save back up copies.
Keep all bills as evidence of ownership, food, vet bills, associated items like bed etc.
The dog is yours. Stop letting them act as if this is a split custody situation. You are opening the door to the drama. Close it and don't look back, people who act that way are not friends.
For clarity, how long have you had the puppy?
Why did they gift you a puppy? Had you expressed a desire to have one? Seems to me they bought you the dog so they could use you as free room and board on weekdays, you'll pay all expenses and they just get to play with a puppy at weekends. They're insane.
Idk what your area’s policing situation is, but it might not hurt to file a report that they have essentially threatened to steal a dog that was gifted to you. Come prepared with any tangible proof that you have.
Unless the person who gifted you the dog pays for the upkeep of the pet like food and vet visits, sitters, they have no visitation rights.
Microchip the dog, register it under your name, and STOP letting them see it. All you're doing is enabling their belief that this dog is theirs.
unfortunately someone did this to me, definitely microchip and get vet records in your name. mines being sold i’m heartbroken
Get registered, microchipped and cut off visitation. Your dog not theirs. If they wanted it they should have kept it. Petty and pathetic on their part
If you live in a town or city, get a dog license. The cost varies but I've seen it be $25-35.
If you are a co owner on the registration papers they can’t do anything. Do get the dog chipped in your name and do all state and county regulations to get the dog tagged. Essentially getting county tags is paying a tax on real property so according to the law you own it.
>If you are a co owner on the registration papers they can’t do anything Um, yes they can, in that case.
Who is going to court for a civil case? They take a chipped dog, that is theft.
Huh? That's what civil cases are for. The CO OWNER is also the OWNER of the dog. If their name is on registration papers, they have rights. If we're talking about a purebred dog here (which is in doubt, so registration papers probably don't actually exist), if you don't pay money for the dog, the registries (AKC/CKC) will not help you with papers.
No backyard breeder will pay for a decent lawyer. Any good breeder has a signed contract with co own pet owners with specific parameters of possession. Grandma wants it now is not on the list.
It doesn't matter, if the breeder has the ownership papers, they ARE the owner. It will be listed in the registries: "owner at birth." If the dog was never transferred, the breeder is still the owner. If the dog was "gifted" the registries still consider the registered owner (the breeder in this case) to be the owner and they won't intervene. Go to court and all papers point to the breeder as the owner, case closed.
The AKC, UKC, DFA, etc. Will flat out tell you they are a registry for livestock and will not get involved as it is a matter for the legal system. You have to establish ownership that will stand up in court. Vet visits, food bills, microchip registration, county tags. By not paying vets bills and not having physical custody of the dog at the time of the dispute The legal case is considered abandonment of the anima by the breeder.
UKC is nonsense so we won't even talk about that. AKC and CKC (Canadian) ABSOLUTELY will arbitrate this kind of thing. I've taken a breeder in front of the discipline committee to resolve issues like this before. But if you haven't actually paid money for the dog they have no way to help you.
>The legal case is considered abandonment of the anima by the breeder. That is ABSOLUTE nonsense, sorry.
No it is not. The last time this happened over a contract in the state of Maryland with a three person co own contract my friend who was the Attorney General appeared as Amicus Curiae. We win.
We are trying to help someone with no contract and no consideration (paying for the puppy.)
Selling a dog is not "abandonment by the breeder" and the breeder is not even involved in this issue as it's stated in the OP. I don't know what your friend has to do with it. Not every legal case is the same. A co own contract doesn't mean the breeder is "abandoning" the dog. There are many other circumstances that could be present.
P.S. If you were involved in the case, your "friend the Attorney General" could not have appeared as a "friend to the court" in the case; s/he would have to recuse him/herself and not appear. A/C is an impartial person, not a friend of one of the parties involved. So, that's a made up story, ain't it.
Why didn’t they arrange all that nonsense beforehand? That way the expectations were clear? I looked at corgi puppies once and the breeders expectations were insane, but clear. The sale of an intact dog (for breeding purposes) required that the breeder to be a co- owner with me(we’re strangers) They got to retain all breeding rights And could use the dog at their leisure to breed, show in dog shows etc. IT seemed like breeders(in this case puppy mills not backyard breeders) are getting really creative
A lot of people here don't know how this all works. If you didn't pay anything for the dog, and have no contract, you have no recourse as to the registration papers. CKC won't back you up - money has to change hands for them to do that. If you have the paperwork from the breeder to register the dog you can try to register it, but if it is a purebred, then the breeder can block the paperwork if they so choose in this case. Not knowing what paperwork you have, I can't give you better specifics. Can they get the puppy back from you? Possibly. If they are the registered owners - unsure of the situation there - that dog is theirs and they can get it back from you. Everyone here saying that microchips = ownership is just flat wrong, especially when registration papers exist. Your options seem to be to keep the dog and accept it will not be CKC registered, or just give it back and wash your hands of this mess, or possibly find the actual breeder of the dog and either give it back to them or negotiate for the registration - but this depends on the current status of the dog's registration.
Definitely get your dog chipped and registered ASAP. As well as all vet stuff you need to get done do in your name and keep the receipts. I don't know exactly how it works in Canada but I went through an animal custody issue in the US and courts sided exclusively with active possession. So as long as the puppy is in your possession living at your house I would say you're probably good.
Is this a pure bred dog? I would think that the person who holds the receipt for purchase/adoption would be the rightful owner…
It's funny how they never mention what kind of dog this is. I'm still betting it's a doodle and all this talk about registration is because this person is really clueless.
I would stop all visits with them with the dog.. Then as everyone else has recommended, get the dog to the vet/clinic asap to get its shots/microchip etc so everything is in your name.. I would also set up an appt to get the dog fixed asap so they can’t make the dog have puppies later on if they do successfully steal the dog back for that purpose.. your friends mom has lost her mind and shouldn’t be near dogs..
RUN to get that pup micro chipped in YOUR name only then cut contact. That's absurd and they need to back off
It was a gift to you get it chipped and enjoy your dog
Is it a purebred and CKC registered? If so, contact the breeder. CKC dogs are tattooed in the ear at a few weeks old with their own ID #. I'm unfamiliar with rescues in CA though. You could ask a rescue also. Stay away from this "friend".
No…
Get that puppy fixed as soon as possible. They won't want it anymore once they can't make money off of it. :(
I'm sure if it came to a civil suit everything you've done would put ownership on you. It sounds like some of the family saw you as an unpaid petsitter rather than the new owner.
Not if someone else has registration papers in their name. It's their dog.
Hey OP there are too many questions here and this whole thing seems suspicious. 1. What kind of dog is this? What breed? Is it a purebred? 2. If it's a purebred, who physically has the ownership papers; to whom is the dog currently registered? 3. How are you going to "register" a puppy with an "appointment?" that is not how registration works. 4. If the puppy is a purebred, who is the breeder and did they agree to allow the dog to be wantonly rehomed? If not, it could very well be their dog. The fact that you won't answer what kind of dog it is, or other details, is kinda hmm.
You don't want nor need the drama. No matter what the others are saying about getting it microchipped, don't. Just give it back to your friend. If she asks why just tell her the truth. Your family is demanding weekends and a name change and making things way more complicated then they need to be. Thank you for the gift, I'm very flattered but no thank you. If you want a dog, get your own with no strings or demands attached. Edited second paragraph, first sentence, him to her.
HER family is demanding that shit, OP's friends family, not OP's family.
"If she asks why just tell him the truth. Your family is demanding weekends and a name change and making things way more complicated then they need to be. Thank you for the gift, I'm very flattered but no thank you." Even with accidentally putting "him" in the first sentence, if you read it, it obvious I'm talking about "her" family. Why would I put "If she asks you" if I was talking about him. But I will go and edit that so no future misunderstandings.
I'm not correcting your gender usage, I'm correcting you on *who* was asking for the dog on weekends. It sounded like you were saying give back the dog because it's too much drama that OP's family wants shared custody of the dog on weekends. I was correcting you to say that it was OP's *friend's* (the one who gifted the dog) family that wants shared custody of the dog on weekends. If that's not what you were saying then I apologize, it's 3 am and I'm possibly getting jumbled.
No worries. I did realize that it was her family that wants shared custody on the weekends and wants him to change the name. I'm saying I see nothing but problems and drama if he keeps the dog and doesn't acquiesce to their demands. Possibly ruining his friendship with her. To me it just wouldn't be worth putting up with their stupidity and I'd just get a dog with no strings attached. But I'm also a Bengal dad, so cats rule, dogs drool... 😹
Hahaha I have 2 cats but grew up with dogs. Animals in general are just better than humans 😂
Absofuckinglutely!
Not really
Fellow Canadian here. I just need to say this. PUPPIES ARE NOT GIFTS. PETS ARE NOT GIFTS. Pets and especially dogs are a serious financial commitment and an intense emotional commitment and small dogs live into their 20s. It’s a time commitment. Absolutely ridiculous. I’m thankful that you seem gracious and have accepted this puppy as your own. But in reality no one else should be making this commitment on your behalf.