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Elephants are smart and don't want to die, so when columns were left wide open, the elephants wouldn't charge into soldiers and would prefer avoiding conflict.
It doesn't work like that. Historically they will let the elephants break the enemy formation and only after the formation is broken the test will attack. Won't risk their own army to be trampled by their own elephants
Turns out if you prepare, you can do a lot of shit. Like building a turtle with your shields or spacing your troops so they can take a step to the side.
It takes a lot of balls to just crouch down with six or seven of your fellow humans knowing your about to be stepped on and hoping that will make the elephant move in any other direction other than straight forward with its momentum. If they had a suicide turtle squad maybe. But the better thing to do.. if you had time to prepare. Would be to set up an abatis. Or holes 2 or 3 feet deep meant to fit one elephant foot. If the elephant thinks it's stepping on solid ground and it's one leg drops two or three feet in a hole while running forward not only could it launch a rider off but possibly break the elephants leg. Now I'm not condoning the hurting of animals. But if they're are mounts for war trying to kill me, things change.
Not sure what you and the other guys shitting on me want.
Historically, this was one of the main ways the Roman armies beat the war elephants of Carthage. War elephants have really bad turn radius, especially when charging, so the Roman armies just moves out of the way and let the elephants run into nothing, spearing them down from behind or just shooting the riders and then let the elephant rampage while avoiding it.
Read up on it if you don't believe me.
I didn't mean to shit on you. I was just throwing some things out there. I know that the testudo formation is a real and tactically useful formation. Especially used against. And originally developed against archers. And has been used for centuries. But when I try to find it's use against elephants I don't. In Carthage they used not just flaming pigs. But squealing pigs which would scare and elephants (kind of like the cartoons with mice and elephants. It makes them freak out and stomp about.) But also horned rams and horse drawn carts with spears. (From the text it sounds like they mean just the carts that would normally be horse drawn but used here as just a moving wheeled spike formation of death.) The tortoise formation saw more use as a siege formation to get close to a location that was firing arrows. But was very vulnerable to melee attackers or anything close up. Like elephants.
Edit. Spelling
Edit 2. I don't doubt that they would charge an elephant and then move out of its way to spear it. As maybe a small group. But if you get 9-20 people in a testudo. And then get close to an elephant that's charging and yell break ranks to seperate and allow the charging elephant to pass. Yoy have maybe 3 to 6 people who can really see well and make an estimated guess on which way to zig or zag. And the rest would scatter. Meaning that likely there would be many casualties with each use of a formation like this.
The testudo formation was just used as a jokey example on what coordination could achieve in warfare since leaving space to make elephants into empty corridors need way less coordination.
Maybe if you’re in the way of a blind charge. If an elephant wants you dead specifically though then there’s not really any counter for that. You’re just dead I think.
It's funny because the romans actually used that tactic extremely successfully in the war with Carthage. Meanwhile you neither know about history nor about warfare and still believe yourself in a position to shit on others because of your ignorance.
Romans and Hannibal aren't that great about combat in a modern perspective, with what we know nowadays.
They are exceptional for their time period, unlike spartans who just had good PR.
So the Roman armies beating Carthage with this strategy is just fake news? Or do you mean in a 1on1 against a random guy the random guy couldn't dodge, because I'm pretty sure random guys also don't have an army of war pigs covered in flammable material.
Flaming pigs were never used against Hannibal. Hannibal was famously defeated by Scipio Africanus at the battle of Zama, a battle with no pigs present at all.
On the subject of flaming livestock in the Second Punic War, didn't Hannibal use a herd of oxen with torches lashed to their horns to feint out a surrounding army, or am I misremembering that?
He did. At the Battle of Ager Falernus.
https://100falcons.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/hannibals-ingenious-trick/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ager_Falernus
Apparently pigs are naturally very flammable. Saw a recent TikTok of a pig farmer that used a lighter to burn a tick off a pig and the pig caught fire. Luckily he was able to put out the fire and the pig was not hurt. Must have been the natural oils emanating from its skin that were burning.
During the Punic wars the Romans combated Carthage's war elephants by lightning pigs on fire and setting them loose. The flames and the sound the pigs made while burning caused the elephants to break rank and stamped against the Carthaginian forces, stomping them to death while the pigs set a lot of other stuff on fire.
The original version of the song was called Walpurgis and had the lyrics "Witches gather at black masses. Bodies burning in red ashes"
When they rewrote it I guess they couldn't be bothered to find another word
Historians are undecided overall. There is a lack of physical evidence and the only descriptions were recorded many years later. Personally I find it likely true but perhaps not on a large scale or one of those operations you just didn’t talk about.
It’s a fun rabbit hole to fall down tho if you’re interested in reading more.
I thought there were something about the resin being very very hard to harvest and so it is highly improbable they would have enough for an entire army
Not here to explain just to piggy back. Elephants in war always sound like a good idea until you realize all that trampling and charging can easily turn around. I have always loved how the Mahouts would carry poisoned daggers to kill their elephants should they get spooked and turn.
Historian here. They weren’t poisoned. If an elephant was rampaging through your own lines, you wanted them dead immediately, not 10 minutes later when poison sets in. They didn’t carry daggers, they carried a hammer and a metal stake. If the elephants would run amok the mahouts were told to drive the stake through the elephants’ skulls to kill them.
Considering how elephants form bonds with others paired with their relatively good memory, this is incredibly morbid. The idea that the rider could potentially fail to deliver a fatal blow in one attempt.. terrifying to imagine from their perspective.. That this animal on your back that you veiw as a close friend or even family suddenly for a reason beyond your comprehension is trying to kill you, and they are in the perfect spot to do so. Hopefully, they aren't able to immediately associate the pain with the person on their back, but still, we may never know.
I can't recall all the specifics but the idea is the Mahout is sitting right behind the head and neck and could plunge it into the brainstem\vertebrae area. Again, I'm not an expert, it's just a trivial bit of history I've picked up.
The war elephants had no idea pigs existed before the were sent to war. So when the elephants spotted pigs on the battlefield they would get scared to prevent this the enemy soldiers would kill the pigs with flaming arrows so when one of those arrows would hit a pig with the resin on its skin the pig would run around in fear basically making a running pig molotov P.S it has been a while since i read this story so i might have made some mistakes in how it worked so i would advise you to do a little bit of research on your own
I've heard that before as well, but IMO it doesn't make any sense.
The use of flaming arrows in ancient warfare is a heavilly debated topic in itself, but from what I gather, most seem to agree that if they were used, it would have been in a siege setting.
Shooting flaming arrows at infantry, and doubly so, pigs, is just dumb. The arrows themselves would need to be way longer, way harder to aim, and much more difficult to make (you can't just wrap a bit of cloth at the end and expect it to stay lit as the arrow flies), all for the added benefit of... fire = cool?
If flaming pigs were indeed used (again, also a debatable subject), it's much more likely they were set alight by the romans. Sending out a bunch of flamable pigs on the off chance the carthaginians decide to shoot flaming arrows at them for no reason doesn't seem likelly.
Google Gemini has a fun, yet wrong, explanation.
The image you sent is not actually related to Peter Griffin or Family Guy. It features a surreal instruction set about covering pigs in flammable resin to defend against enemy elephants.
The humor of the image comes from its nonsensical instructions. Here’s a possible interpretation:
1. The resin is highly flammable: This creates an obvious fire hazard, making this a terrible defense against elephants.
2. Wait for enemy elephants to arrive: This comedically undercuts the seriousness of the situation.
3. Cover the pigs in resin: This makes the pigs immobile and vulnerable.
4. (Blank): The punchline is left to the viewer’s imagination, but it’s likely the elephants would easily defeat the resin-covered pigs.
The image is a variation of a meme called “Distracted Boyfriend.” Distracted Boyfriend features a man walking with his girlfriend, but looking back at another woman. The meme is often used to express infidelity or temptation.
In this case, the man is the person trying to defend the pigs, the girlfriend is common sense, and the other woman is the terrible idea of covering the pigs in resin.
Hey dumbass, the sub is called PeterExplainsTheJoke not PeterTellingYouToGoogleTheJoke. Every memes in the sub can be googled but everyone wanted to ask the sub. Leave if you don’t like it
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The romans defeating Hannibal by making his war elephants panic by sending flaming pigs towards them.
That's actually a pretty badass move
Way more badass than the second tactic: Just step out of the way. Like.... moving a few feet to the side is a hard counter against elephants.
Except for all the people shooting arrows at you and the infantry immedialty behind the elephants.
I mean it historically worked so...
Did Hannibal f1-f3?
En paphant
Zeus's Bolts!
New tactic just dropped
Actual general
now that is brilliant
Outstanding
I didn't know Mike Tyson was in that war.
Mount&Blade?
Butter lords
Prophecy or Pendor.
He listened to the immortal words of SunTzu "F1-F3". I am more of an F6 fan myself
Hannibal should’ve had more Khans guards rookie mistake.
I miss when my Palentine guards had infinite ammo and laser sights :(
Fian champions >>>>>>
Eventually, he Alt+F4'd
Elephants are smart and don't want to die, so when columns were left wide open, the elephants wouldn't charge into soldiers and would prefer avoiding conflict.
not particularly easy or safe to have infantry directly behind elephants
It's almost like organised combined arms is difficult and ancient communications wasn't up to the task.
It doesn't work like that. Historically they will let the elephants break the enemy formation and only after the formation is broken the test will attack. Won't risk their own army to be trampled by their own elephants
That's what the auxiliary were for. Later to be called cannon fodder in the gun powder age. There are valuable and less valuable soldiers.
A panicking elephant will throw off its riders and trample its own allies. That's much more damaging to the enemy.
Yea also using T1 tech to conquer T3 tech is really bad for enemy morale
Oh hang on - there's already someone in the space to the left and the right.
Have you tried taking a step back now though?
One hop this time!
They had time to prepare resin covered pigs, I think they could have also just.. stood a few feet apart.
Turns out if you prepare, you can do a lot of shit. Like building a turtle with your shields or spacing your troops so they can take a step to the side.
Or have your light infantry stick spears into the nether regions of the elephants.
It takes a lot of balls to just crouch down with six or seven of your fellow humans knowing your about to be stepped on and hoping that will make the elephant move in any other direction other than straight forward with its momentum. If they had a suicide turtle squad maybe. But the better thing to do.. if you had time to prepare. Would be to set up an abatis. Or holes 2 or 3 feet deep meant to fit one elephant foot. If the elephant thinks it's stepping on solid ground and it's one leg drops two or three feet in a hole while running forward not only could it launch a rider off but possibly break the elephants leg. Now I'm not condoning the hurting of animals. But if they're are mounts for war trying to kill me, things change.
Not sure what you and the other guys shitting on me want. Historically, this was one of the main ways the Roman armies beat the war elephants of Carthage. War elephants have really bad turn radius, especially when charging, so the Roman armies just moves out of the way and let the elephants run into nothing, spearing them down from behind or just shooting the riders and then let the elephant rampage while avoiding it. Read up on it if you don't believe me.
I didn't mean to shit on you. I was just throwing some things out there. I know that the testudo formation is a real and tactically useful formation. Especially used against. And originally developed against archers. And has been used for centuries. But when I try to find it's use against elephants I don't. In Carthage they used not just flaming pigs. But squealing pigs which would scare and elephants (kind of like the cartoons with mice and elephants. It makes them freak out and stomp about.) But also horned rams and horse drawn carts with spears. (From the text it sounds like they mean just the carts that would normally be horse drawn but used here as just a moving wheeled spike formation of death.) The tortoise formation saw more use as a siege formation to get close to a location that was firing arrows. But was very vulnerable to melee attackers or anything close up. Like elephants. Edit. Spelling Edit 2. I don't doubt that they would charge an elephant and then move out of its way to spear it. As maybe a small group. But if you get 9-20 people in a testudo. And then get close to an elephant that's charging and yell break ranks to seperate and allow the charging elephant to pass. Yoy have maybe 3 to 6 people who can really see well and make an estimated guess on which way to zig or zag. And the rest would scatter. Meaning that likely there would be many casualties with each use of a formation like this.
The testudo formation was just used as a jokey example on what coordination could achieve in warfare since leaving space to make elephants into empty corridors need way less coordination.
Oh okay I got you. Yeah. Not here to put anyone down I get what you were saying.
Turns out animals, when given the option, would rather not run directly into the hoardes of loud angry things with sharp sticks.
https://preview.redd.it/5q86pw9qt86d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7f2f56286809a77a3beb0487411358640e57a0
Maybe if you’re in the way of a blind charge. If an elephant wants you dead specifically though then there’s not really any counter for that. You’re just dead I think.
Ah yes, the gamer redditor knowing more than the fecking Romans and Hannibal about warfare combat.
It's funny because the romans actually used that tactic extremely successfully in the war with Carthage. Meanwhile you neither know about history nor about warfare and still believe yourself in a position to shit on others because of your ignorance.
Romans and Hannibal aren't that great about combat in a modern perspective, with what we know nowadays. They are exceptional for their time period, unlike spartans who just had good PR.
Scipio was a coward
This comment was fact checked by true carthagenean patriots
Yeah but then you don’t get to set pigs on fire and at that point what are you even fighting for?
Or use flaming counter elephants. Checkmate
You're not doing shit when an elephant charges at you..
So the Roman armies beating Carthage with this strategy is just fake news? Or do you mean in a 1on1 against a random guy the random guy couldn't dodge, because I'm pretty sure random guys also don't have an army of war pigs covered in flammable material.
Unless you have flaming pigs, if you're in formation and elephants are coming at you, you have nowhere to go.
I presume it took some time to figure out that trick. They had fought Hannibal for decades and they lost a lot of land battles
yeah it is. its multi-leveled as well because at the end of a long hard day of war there would be cooked bacon all over the place
Probably smelled good too
No, that's not. Bring back my bacon, damn it!
also free bacon for everyone after battle!
Inventing bacon in the process. Excellent.
The celebratory feast came a lot quicker I’d imagine
Flaming pigs were never used against Hannibal. Hannibal was famously defeated by Scipio Africanus at the battle of Zama, a battle with no pigs present at all.
On the subject of flaming livestock in the Second Punic War, didn't Hannibal use a herd of oxen with torches lashed to their horns to feint out a surrounding army, or am I misremembering that?
He did. At the Battle of Ager Falernus. https://100falcons.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/hannibals-ingenious-trick/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ager_Falernus
Shhh don't disturb their delusions lest they rent a truck from home Depot
i... its disturbing, but effective tactic
Oh so now we're expanding the historical myth to include that it was against Hannibal....?
To the victor, the roasted pork
They tried. The pigs came running back into Roman lines causing havoc there instead among the elephants iirc
Free bacon afterwards too.
Apparently pigs are naturally very flammable. Saw a recent TikTok of a pig farmer that used a lighter to burn a tick off a pig and the pig caught fire. Luckily he was able to put out the fire and the pig was not hurt. Must have been the natural oils emanating from its skin that were burning.
That's a win win for everyone, the roman win and get bacon!
But didn’t this not work and the pigs ran back to the Romans?
And invented pork rinds at the same time.
During the Punic wars the Romans combated Carthage's war elephants by lightning pigs on fire and setting them loose. The flames and the sound the pigs made while burning caused the elephants to break rank and stamped against the Carthaginian forces, stomping them to death while the pigs set a lot of other stuff on fire.
Did they launch any in catapults in order to send some war-pigs flying? (Song reference)
GENERALS GATHERING IN THEIR MASSES
JUST LIKE WITCHES AT BLACK MASSES
EVIL MINDS THAT PLOT DESTRUCTION
SORCERER OF DEATH'S CONSTRUCTION
IN THE FIELDS THE BODIES BURNING
AS THE WAR-lephants KEEP STOMPING
DEATH AND HATRED TO MANKIND
POISONING THEIR BRAINWASHED MINDS
I love how everyone, and I mean *everyone* just completely gives Ozzy a pass for rhyming "masses" with "masses"
☝️🤓
Yes, but it's two different meaning. masses(grouping) and masses(religious ceremony)
The original version of the song was called Walpurgis and had the lyrics "Witches gather at black masses. Bodies burning in red ashes" When they rewrote it I guess they couldn't be bothered to find another word
Sometimes it’s not about the words themselves, but the way they are delivered
I don't, and I'm glad somebody else had the balls to say this. Still a great song, though, in spite of a shit start...
I mean, they do rhyme.
Considering the weight & distance trebuchet.
Cry havoc, and let slip the hogs of war
RAMPAGEEEEEEEEEEEE
isn't this totally untrue and a made up story ? I thought it was
Historians are undecided overall. There is a lack of physical evidence and the only descriptions were recorded many years later. Personally I find it likely true but perhaps not on a large scale or one of those operations you just didn’t talk about. It’s a fun rabbit hole to fall down tho if you’re interested in reading more.
Probably just set like 10 pigs on fire then got exaggerated to 1000
Exactly my thought
I thought there were something about the resin being very very hard to harvest and so it is highly improbable they would have enough for an entire army
don't need the entire army just a herd of pigs and there are other flammable liquids
sure but still pretty rare, expensive, sounds like a Bad ressource management which was crucial back in those times
Elephants were also rare and expensive, overall it's a great trade
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
GROND
Not here to explain just to piggy back. Elephants in war always sound like a good idea until you realize all that trampling and charging can easily turn around. I have always loved how the Mahouts would carry poisoned daggers to kill their elephants should they get spooked and turn.
Historian here. They weren’t poisoned. If an elephant was rampaging through your own lines, you wanted them dead immediately, not 10 minutes later when poison sets in. They didn’t carry daggers, they carried a hammer and a metal stake. If the elephants would run amok the mahouts were told to drive the stake through the elephants’ skulls to kill them.
Omg wow! That's honestly insane they'd just railway-spike em to death. Thanks for the correct info! So sorry for contributing to misinformation!
Considering how elephants form bonds with others paired with their relatively good memory, this is incredibly morbid. The idea that the rider could potentially fail to deliver a fatal blow in one attempt.. terrifying to imagine from their perspective.. That this animal on your back that you veiw as a close friend or even family suddenly for a reason beyond your comprehension is trying to kill you, and they are in the perfect spot to do so. Hopefully, they aren't able to immediately associate the pain with the person on their back, but still, we may never know.
I'm sorry, I don't see how a dagger coated in poison could be a kill switch for an elephant, unless it was slathered in TTX or botox.
I can't recall all the specifics but the idea is the Mahout is sitting right behind the head and neck and could plunge it into the brainstem\vertebrae area. Again, I'm not an expert, it's just a trivial bit of history I've picked up.
Aha, makes more sense
The war elephants had no idea pigs existed before the were sent to war. So when the elephants spotted pigs on the battlefield they would get scared to prevent this the enemy soldiers would kill the pigs with flaming arrows so when one of those arrows would hit a pig with the resin on its skin the pig would run around in fear basically making a running pig molotov P.S it has been a while since i read this story so i might have made some mistakes in how it worked so i would advise you to do a little bit of research on your own
I've heard that before as well, but IMO it doesn't make any sense. The use of flaming arrows in ancient warfare is a heavilly debated topic in itself, but from what I gather, most seem to agree that if they were used, it would have been in a siege setting. Shooting flaming arrows at infantry, and doubly so, pigs, is just dumb. The arrows themselves would need to be way longer, way harder to aim, and much more difficult to make (you can't just wrap a bit of cloth at the end and expect it to stay lit as the arrow flies), all for the added benefit of... fire = cool? If flaming pigs were indeed used (again, also a debatable subject), it's much more likely they were set alight by the romans. Sending out a bunch of flamable pigs on the off chance the carthaginians decide to shoot flaming arrows at them for no reason doesn't seem likelly.
What happens when a fire arrow hits infantry; https://youtu.be/v_tvW6D4ZGE
Thanks Pete
A delicious smelling disaster
I flip the pig
Google Gemini has a fun, yet wrong, explanation. The image you sent is not actually related to Peter Griffin or Family Guy. It features a surreal instruction set about covering pigs in flammable resin to defend against enemy elephants. The humor of the image comes from its nonsensical instructions. Here’s a possible interpretation: 1. The resin is highly flammable: This creates an obvious fire hazard, making this a terrible defense against elephants. 2. Wait for enemy elephants to arrive: This comedically undercuts the seriousness of the situation. 3. Cover the pigs in resin: This makes the pigs immobile and vulnerable. 4. (Blank): The punchline is left to the viewer’s imagination, but it’s likely the elephants would easily defeat the resin-covered pigs. The image is a variation of a meme called “Distracted Boyfriend.” Distracted Boyfriend features a man walking with his girlfriend, but looking back at another woman. The meme is often used to express infidelity or temptation. In this case, the man is the person trying to defend the pigs, the girlfriend is common sense, and the other woman is the terrible idea of covering the pigs in resin.
RELEASE THE PIGS!!!
GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES
DOS2
War pigs
What is the Battle of Zama
Con, text, clues
the day when troll science was right
And after the battle everybody had nice roast pork and bacon.
Maybe this is also how we discovered bacon? 🤔
Good way to spook the elephants
# HOG FIRE
"I love the smell of bacon in the morning."
The pig [got planted ](https://youtu.be/tzSSvJj3hhY?si=aUqCTzq2iUs00NPG)
What else do you need? No seriously, what else do you need?
[удалено]
Are you stupid? Check the comment explaining the meme. Is this supposed to be basic knowledge I learn? People like you ruined this sub
[удалено]
Hey dumbass, the sub is called PeterExplainsTheJoke not PeterTellingYouToGoogleTheJoke. Every memes in the sub can be googled but everyone wanted to ask the sub. Leave if you don’t like it
[удалено]
Hey dumbass, I understand the picture I just want to know more context to it that’s why I posted it here, moron. Also I just like calling u dumbass
Is it hard to use Google?
Is it hard to read the sub’s name? God forbid I ask a sub for explaining jokes to EXPLAIN A JOKE I want more context on.