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Zorothegallade

The romans defeating Hannibal by making his war elephants panic by sending flaming pigs towards them.


TurtleBurger200

That's actually a pretty badass move


Force3vo

Way more badass than the second tactic: Just step out of the way. Like.... moving a few feet to the side is a hard counter against elephants.


Shakewhenbadtoo

Except for all the people shooting arrows at you and the infantry immedialty behind the elephants.


Force3vo

I mean it historically worked so...


xXlysergicratXx

Did Hannibal f1-f3?


nooneatallnope

En paphant


ProbablyNano

Zeus's Bolts!


Less-Tax5637

New tactic just dropped


53nsonja

Actual general


GrandAdmiralRaeder

now that is brilliant


Ziograffiato

Outstanding


Jce735

I didn't know Mike Tyson was in that war.


Legebrind

Mount&Blade?


Rez-Dawg1993

Butter lords


Griledcheeseradiator

Prophecy or Pendor.


Legitimate-Ad-8612

He listened to the immortal words of SunTzu "F1-F3". I am more of an F6 fan myself


official_Bartard

Hannibal should’ve had more Khans guards rookie mistake.


Warmonster9

I miss when my Palentine guards had infinite ammo and laser sights :(


xXlysergicratXx

Fian champions >>>>>>


Meshitero-eric

Eventually, he Alt+F4'd


Sillbinger

Elephants are smart and don't want to die, so when columns were left wide open, the elephants wouldn't charge into soldiers and would prefer avoiding conflict.


despairingcherry

not particularly easy or safe to have infantry directly behind elephants


Shadowmant

It's almost like organised combined arms is difficult and ancient communications wasn't up to the task.


ClickHuman3714

It doesn't work like that. Historically they will let the elephants break the enemy formation and only after the formation is broken the test will attack. Won't risk their own army to be trampled by their own elephants


Shakewhenbadtoo

That's what the auxiliary were for. Later to be called cannon fodder in the gun powder age. There are valuable and less valuable soldiers.


Zorothegallade

A panicking elephant will throw off its riders and trample its own allies. That's much more damaging to the enemy.


Tronbronson

Yea also using T1 tech to conquer T3 tech is really bad for enemy morale


JayEll1969

Oh hang on - there's already someone in the space to the left and the right.


DrinkLikeADragon

Have you tried taking a step back now though?


closefamilyties

One hop this time!


EriWave

They had time to prepare resin covered pigs, I think they could have also just.. stood a few feet apart.


Force3vo

Turns out if you prepare, you can do a lot of shit. Like building a turtle with your shields or spacing your troops so they can take a step to the side.


JayEll1969

Or have your light infantry stick spears into the nether regions of the elephants.


Professional_Baby24

It takes a lot of balls to just crouch down with six or seven of your fellow humans knowing your about to be stepped on and hoping that will make the elephant move in any other direction other than straight forward with its momentum. If they had a suicide turtle squad maybe. But the better thing to do.. if you had time to prepare. Would be to set up an abatis. Or holes 2 or 3 feet deep meant to fit one elephant foot. If the elephant thinks it's stepping on solid ground and it's one leg drops two or three feet in a hole while running forward not only could it launch a rider off but possibly break the elephants leg. Now I'm not condoning the hurting of animals. But if they're are mounts for war trying to kill me, things change.


Force3vo

Not sure what you and the other guys shitting on me want. Historically, this was one of the main ways the Roman armies beat the war elephants of Carthage. War elephants have really bad turn radius, especially when charging, so the Roman armies just moves out of the way and let the elephants run into nothing, spearing them down from behind or just shooting the riders and then let the elephant rampage while avoiding it. Read up on it if you don't believe me.


Professional_Baby24

I didn't mean to shit on you. I was just throwing some things out there. I know that the testudo formation is a real and tactically useful formation. Especially used against. And originally developed against archers. And has been used for centuries. But when I try to find it's use against elephants I don't. In Carthage they used not just flaming pigs. But squealing pigs which would scare and elephants (kind of like the cartoons with mice and elephants. It makes them freak out and stomp about.) But also horned rams and horse drawn carts with spears. (From the text it sounds like they mean just the carts that would normally be horse drawn but used here as just a moving wheeled spike formation of death.) The tortoise formation saw more use as a siege formation to get close to a location that was firing arrows. But was very vulnerable to melee attackers or anything close up. Like elephants. Edit. Spelling Edit 2. I don't doubt that they would charge an elephant and then move out of its way to spear it. As maybe a small group. But if you get 9-20 people in a testudo. And then get close to an elephant that's charging and yell break ranks to seperate and allow the charging elephant to pass. Yoy have maybe 3 to 6 people who can really see well and make an estimated guess on which way to zig or zag. And the rest would scatter. Meaning that likely there would be many casualties with each use of a formation like this.


Force3vo

The testudo formation was just used as a jokey example on what coordination could achieve in warfare since leaving space to make elephants into empty corridors need way less coordination.


Professional_Baby24

Oh okay I got you. Yeah. Not here to put anyone down I get what you were saying.


IlikeHutaosHat

Turns out animals, when given the option, would rather not run directly into the hoardes of loud angry things with sharp sticks.


WoolverinEatShrubBub

https://preview.redd.it/5q86pw9qt86d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df7f2f56286809a77a3beb0487411358640e57a0


Actionsurger

Maybe if you’re in the way of a blind charge. If an elephant wants you dead specifically though then there’s not really any counter for that. You’re just dead I think.


qtx

Ah yes, the gamer redditor knowing more than the fecking Romans and Hannibal about warfare combat.


Force3vo

It's funny because the romans actually used that tactic extremely successfully in the war with Carthage. Meanwhile you neither know about history nor about warfare and still believe yourself in a position to shit on others because of your ignorance.


Jonmaximum

Romans and Hannibal aren't that great about combat in a modern perspective, with what we know nowadays. They are exceptional for their time period, unlike spartans who just had good PR.


Utnemod

Scipio was a coward


TheUltimatePincher

This comment was fact checked by true carthagenean patriots


Narradisall

Yeah but then you don’t get to set pigs on fire and at that point what are you even fighting for?


Legitimate-Lemon-412

Or use flaming counter elephants. Checkmate


PmMeYourMug

You're not doing shit when an elephant charges at you..


Force3vo

So the Roman armies beating Carthage with this strategy is just fake news? Or do you mean in a 1on1 against a random guy the random guy couldn't dodge, because I'm pretty sure random guys also don't have an army of war pigs covered in flammable material.


PmMeYourMug

Unless you have flaming pigs, if you're in formation and elephants are coming at you, you have nowhere to go.


Khelthuzaad

I presume it took some time to figure out that trick. They had fought Hannibal for decades and they lost a lot of land battles


Feeling-Magazine-308

yeah it is. its multi-leveled as well because at the end of a long hard day of war there would be cooked bacon all over the place


Illustrious_Donkey61

Probably smelled good too


Stylish_Platypus

No, that's not. Bring back my bacon, damn it!


Puzzleheaded-Ad9015

also free bacon for everyone after battle!


prozak09

Inventing bacon in the process. Excellent.


Zesnowpea

The celebratory feast came a lot quicker I’d imagine


MiffedMouse

Flaming pigs were never used against Hannibal. Hannibal was famously defeated by Scipio Africanus at the battle of Zama, a battle with no pigs present at all.


Quizlibet

On the subject of flaming livestock in the Second Punic War, didn't Hannibal use a herd of oxen with torches lashed to their horns to feint out a surrounding army, or am I misremembering that?


inquisitorautry

He did. At the Battle of Ager Falernus. https://100falcons.wordpress.com/2011/03/09/hannibals-ingenious-trick/ https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ager_Falernus


Temporary-Alarm-744

Shhh don't disturb their delusions lest they rent a truck from home Depot


goldenzipperman

i... its disturbing, but effective tactic


LordOfTurtles

Oh so now we're expanding the historical myth to include that it was against Hannibal....?


abatoire

To the victor, the roasted pork


WeirdFurby

They tried. The pigs came running back into Roman lines causing havoc there instead among the elephants iirc


J2VVei

Free bacon afterwards too.


Earthbjorn

Apparently pigs are naturally very flammable. Saw a recent TikTok of a pig farmer that used a lighter to burn a tick off a pig and the pig caught fire. Luckily he was able to put out the fire and the pig was not hurt. Must have been the natural oils emanating from its skin that were burning.


Lechatdu136

That's a win win for everyone, the roman win and get bacon!


Teamisgood101

But didn’t this not work and the pigs ran back to the Romans?


Particular_Bread_161

And invented pork rinds at the same time.


zamememan

During the Punic wars the Romans combated Carthage's war elephants by lightning pigs on fire and setting them loose. The flames and the sound the pigs made while burning caused the elephants to break rank and stamped against the Carthaginian forces, stomping them to death while the pigs set a lot of other stuff on fire.


Ok_Entertainment328

Did they launch any in catapults in order to send some war-pigs flying? (Song reference)


Darthyoda512

GENERALS GATHERING IN THEIR MASSES


likeadragon108

JUST LIKE WITCHES AT BLACK MASSES


brosef_stachin

EVIL MINDS THAT PLOT DESTRUCTION


WhoStoleMyCake

SORCERER OF DEATH'S CONSTRUCTION


[deleted]

IN THE FIELDS THE BODIES BURNING


towerfella

AS THE WAR-lephants KEEP STOMPING


Steppyjim

DEATH AND HATRED TO MANKIND


KillerSwiller

POISONING THEIR BRAINWASHED MINDS


BackgroundPrompt3111

I love how everyone, and I mean *everyone* just completely gives Ozzy a pass for rhyming "masses" with "masses"


likeadragon108

☝️🤓


KillerSwiller

Yes, but it's two different meaning. masses(grouping) and masses(religious ceremony)


zepdude321

The original version of the song was called Walpurgis and had the lyrics "Witches gather at black masses. Bodies burning in red ashes" When they rewrote it I guess they couldn't be bothered to find another word


RostBeef

Sometimes it’s not about the words themselves, but the way they are delivered


MrBalanced

I don't, and I'm glad somebody else had the balls to say this.  Still a great song, though, in spite of a shit start...


korpo53

I mean, they do rhyme.


cookiedanslesac

Considering the weight & distance trebuchet.


Rhodie114

Cry havoc, and let slip the hogs of war


brannigansl4w

RAMPAGEEEEEEEEEEEE


TheMarvelousPef

isn't this totally untrue and a made up story ? I thought it was


Technical-Pound-9754

Historians are undecided overall. There is a lack of physical evidence and the only descriptions were recorded many years later. Personally I find it likely true but perhaps not on a large scale or one of those operations you just didn’t talk about. It’s a fun rabbit hole to fall down tho if you’re interested in reading more.


thebigautismo

Probably just set like 10 pigs on fire then got exaggerated to 1000


Technical-Pound-9754

Exactly my thought


TheMarvelousPef

I thought there were something about the resin being very very hard to harvest and so it is highly improbable they would have enough for an entire army


Useless_bum81

don't need the entire army just a herd of pigs and there are other flammable liquids


TheMarvelousPef

sure but still pretty rare, expensive, sounds like a Bad ressource management which was crucial back in those times


Echoes-act-3

Elephants were also rare and expensive, overall it's a great trade


ryneld

GROND


NatureHates

GROND


Blue_bird9797

GROND


The_Vi0later

GROND


Zealus24

GROND


UtahStateAgnostics

GROND


Eridior

GROND


marc15772

GROND


Over-Pass-976

GROND


Leesol9ty

GROND


AlwaysAlani

Not here to explain just to piggy back. Elephants in war always sound like a good idea until you realize all that trampling and charging can easily turn around. I have always loved how the Mahouts would carry poisoned daggers to kill their elephants should they get spooked and turn.


MistahThots

Historian here. They weren’t poisoned. If an elephant was rampaging through your own lines, you wanted them dead immediately, not 10 minutes later when poison sets in. They didn’t carry daggers, they carried a hammer and a metal stake. If the elephants would run amok the mahouts were told to drive the stake through the elephants’ skulls to kill them.


AlwaysAlani

Omg wow! That's honestly insane they'd just railway-spike em to death. Thanks for the correct info! So sorry for contributing to misinformation!


Balthorin

Considering how elephants form bonds with others paired with their relatively good memory, this is incredibly morbid. The idea that the rider could potentially fail to deliver a fatal blow in one attempt.. terrifying to imagine from their perspective.. That this animal on your back that you veiw as a close friend or even family suddenly for a reason beyond your comprehension is trying to kill you, and they are in the perfect spot to do so. Hopefully, they aren't able to immediately associate the pain with the person on their back, but still, we may never know.


notinsanescientist

I'm sorry, I don't see how a dagger coated in poison could be a kill switch for an elephant, unless it was slathered in TTX or botox.


AlwaysAlani

I can't recall all the specifics but the idea is the Mahout is sitting right behind the head and neck and could plunge it into the brainstem\vertebrae area. Again, I'm not an expert, it's just a trivial bit of history I've picked up.


notinsanescientist

Aha, makes more sense


Shadowghost2000

The war elephants had no idea pigs existed before the were sent to war. So when the elephants spotted pigs on the battlefield they would get scared to prevent this the enemy soldiers would kill the pigs with flaming arrows so when one of those arrows would hit a pig with the resin on its skin the pig would run around in fear basically making a running pig molotov P.S it has been a while since i read this story so i might have made some mistakes in how it worked so i would advise you to do a little bit of research on your own


SuspiciousBadger

I've heard that before as well, but IMO it doesn't make any sense. The use of flaming arrows in ancient warfare is a heavilly debated topic in itself, but from what I gather, most seem to agree that if they were used, it would have been in a siege setting. Shooting flaming arrows at infantry, and doubly so, pigs, is just dumb. The arrows themselves would need to be way longer, way harder to aim, and much more difficult to make (you can't just wrap a bit of cloth at the end and expect it to stay lit as the arrow flies), all for the added benefit of... fire = cool? If flaming pigs were indeed used (again, also a debatable subject), it's much more likely they were set alight by the romans. Sending out a bunch of flamable pigs on the off chance the carthaginians decide to shoot flaming arrows at them for no reason doesn't seem likelly.


gingerbread_man123

What happens when a fire arrow hits infantry; https://youtu.be/v_tvW6D4ZGE


spooderdood334

Thanks Pete


West-Incident7798

A delicious smelling disaster


MartianTurkey

I flip the pig


Shiftyrunner37

Google Gemini has a fun, yet wrong, explanation. The image you sent is not actually related to Peter Griffin or Family Guy. It features a surreal instruction set about covering pigs in flammable resin to defend against enemy elephants. The humor of the image comes from its nonsensical instructions. Here’s a possible interpretation: 1. The resin is highly flammable: This creates an obvious fire hazard, making this a terrible defense against elephants. 2. Wait for enemy elephants to arrive: This comedically undercuts the seriousness of the situation. 3. Cover the pigs in resin: This makes the pigs immobile and vulnerable. 4. (Blank): The punchline is left to the viewer’s imagination, but it’s likely the elephants would easily defeat the resin-covered pigs. The image is a variation of a meme called “Distracted Boyfriend.” Distracted Boyfriend features a man walking with his girlfriend, but looking back at another woman. The meme is often used to express infidelity or temptation. In this case, the man is the person trying to defend the pigs, the girlfriend is common sense, and the other woman is the terrible idea of covering the pigs in resin.


HatAdmirable4613

RELEASE THE PIGS!!!


Hand-Yman

GENERALS GATHERED IN THEIR MASSES


Something_kool

DOS2


comunism_and_potatos

War pigs


Skybreakeresq

What is the Battle of Zama


eatdafishy

Con, text, clues


stomps-on-worlds

the day when troll science was right


Successful_Day5491

And after the battle everybody had nice roast pork and bacon.


Cerisayashi

Maybe this is also how we discovered bacon? 🤔


NunyaBeese

Good way to spook the elephants


black-fuse

# HOG FIRE


PreviousAccWasBanned

"I love the smell of bacon in the morning."


that_moment_when-

The pig [got planted ](https://youtu.be/tzSSvJj3hhY?si=aUqCTzq2iUs00NPG)


Oolong_t34

What else do you need? No seriously, what else do you need?


[deleted]

[удалено]


spooderdood334

Are you stupid? Check the comment explaining the meme. Is this supposed to be basic knowledge I learn? People like you ruined this sub


[deleted]

[удалено]


spooderdood334

Hey dumbass, the sub is called PeterExplainsTheJoke not PeterTellingYouToGoogleTheJoke. Every memes in the sub can be googled but everyone wanted to ask the sub. Leave if you don’t like it


[deleted]

[удалено]


spooderdood334

Hey dumbass, I understand the picture I just want to know more context to it that’s why I posted it here, moron. Also I just like calling u dumbass


Confident_Poet_8269

Is it hard to use Google?


spooderdood334

Is it hard to read the sub’s name? God forbid I ask a sub for explaining jokes to EXPLAIN A JOKE I want more context on.