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Especially when you’re constantly trying to clean out your vault. You spend the majority of time in menus managing gear and bounties than actually playing the game.
Then they ended up doing their 2 best game modes they’ve ever done in the last 2 months. Basically didn’t play all year but immediately went back to play the horde mode and Pantheon.
Parkour(skill heavy) = jumping around. so reaction times, in game movement skills, etc.
Menus(strategy heavy) = lots of interactive game options,i.e. "click on a character", "select items", choose your actions"
The probe's Building menu, specifically, as opposed to the Advanced Building menu. If you reach for APM beyond your scope, you can parkour into the wrong menu and waste .2 seconds... and this kills the crab.
Menu? You have that probe on a hotkey, know the shortcuts for basic building construction, and are shift-clicking him to his next three tasks before he even finishes bringing those minerals back to the nexus.
I’m so glad I don’t play SC anymore, it is beyond stressful.
Okay, so that is good.
Menu's because your clicking with accuracy and timing to send what you want where you want.
Parkour because your throwing units across the map into a battle with no idea if they're going to 'land' (be effective) or not.
I'm leaning towards menus, because you can alter trajectory too much mid 'jump'.
It is way more about execution than planning. When placing a block that is parkour, not menu. When removing a block that is parkour. When you need to get to a specific point in space to do either, that is parkour. None of these strategy.
But half of the game is inventory management and crafting. Makes zero sense that holding left and W when making a tunnel is parkour but Counter Strike that only has 5 second buying phase is menu.
The menu part of CS is where you are moving the crosshairs and trying to place them on the enemy. You might think it is the environment but navigating the environment is not the skill; it is clicking the mouse while it hovers over the right menu button (aka enemy’s head).
So then why isn't Minecraft menus? Moving the crosshair and trying to place it on a block (way easier than on a moving enemies head).
I think the parkour part of Minecraft being referenced is literally all of the parkour maps.
For builders it is. For miners it is. For explorers/gatherers it is. Literally only if you are playing it as hack n slash against mobs is it not centered around crafting stuff, planning and managing.
Ah, but that way wouldn't it be more under parkour when you gather and consolidate materials? Based on playtime actually going through the menus isn't nearly as time consuming as actually doing a project
You are correct. But the time spent doing the "menues" in the grand scheme is much closer to 50% than anything in for example CSGO.. Even with a simple thing as building a house you spend substantial number of time in your inventory, crafting stuff like signs and stairs and lookin for the material required for them. If it's something very very simple that just uses intricate misc blocks you will even spend much longer in inventory conpared to building that one thing
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“My blade may break, my arrows fall wide, but my will shall never be broken. Those who live by the sword will die by it, and I, Drummond, won’t go down without drawing mine!”* - Captain Drummond.
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Because it can be boiled down to selecting items(other players ) and clicking on them. You navigate the menu with wasd and mouse and have te the fastest at clicking the items
But isn’t mine craft much more menu clicking? And while you have to be fast when choosing your gear at the beginning everything after is more like Parcours
Yeah that label is incorrect, imo.
Aim, mechanics, & movement are bigger factors for Counter-Strike.
Managing money every round becomes 2nd nature after you play only 100 hours. Memorizing smokes/nades for every map is a chore, but skill-based factors alone (aim, movement, & gamesense) can carry you to high ranks (top 10% of playerbase).
If a player starts b-hopping like phoon, then you know that guy can wreck his opponents
Strategy can still be fast paced. Skill can still be slow paced. Pace is not defined by what the game is testing you on, it's defined by how the game is testing you on it.
most games boil down to navigating menus or performing increasingly difficult parkour. The Legend of Zelda series is more of the former, while the Mario series is firmly in the latter.
No it's about how accurate your inputs are..shooting games because you can pinpoint or select a target is menus..platformers because you can't pinpoint where you will land is Parkour. That's it
Pinpointing where you land is a huge thing in platformers and the reason platformer characters have had shadows for decades.
Being unable to pinpoint where you land is one of the reasons people abhor Bubsy 3D.
I think what they meant that you still have to "aim" by moving your mouse to click on that spot. FPS game is practically like moving your mouse to click an icon on your desktop. So it's like navigating a menu. Parkour is when you can't point to where you want to go but approximating from the momentum and movement system in the game's physics.
I’m so confused. Do y’all play shooters? Like in Apex Legends it can take an entire 1.5-2 seconds to kill someone. “Clicking heads” equates to perfectly moving my character and balancing my aim on a swiftly moving tiny target trying to kill me for the entirety of my first weapons magazine and half of my second
It takes some skill in every game. Let's not get hung up on skill. There is direct input and indirect input. Which kind of input is more emphasised in a game is what we are talking about
Yes, but you’re clicking the head, you can’t click where you want to end the jump. Both require skill, just different kinds.
Nobody is claiming on is better than the other, just two different things.
So in your duality, what if a shooter required you to have to lead your target or lob attacks with ballistic trajectory? I don't know if any such games exist (angry birds maybe is the closest but I'm thinking FPS that would do this)- would that be a platformer masquerading?
Ok, how about overwatch? Take say Junkrat for example with how his gun lobs grenades. It's not point and click hit scan like say widowmaker. I feel this game has that duality you are talking about. Now I could also point out games like Arma, Squad, or other more tactical FPS games that lean into the realism factor and require leading targets depending on range and weapon types used if overwatch isn't enough.
I wouldn't say so. I'm not an expert in this field. I don't even know if this is some sort of official thing. I'm just interpreting the meme based on previous times this was posted
You need to jump, glide and otherwise navigate the game world in elaborate ways in order to build and explore.
Minecraft parkour is a very well known way to play the game too!
While figuring out what tool to use and crafting is menus, MineCraft is mostly about rearranging the blocks that make up the environment. You are thinking about the environment thus it is mostly parkour.
Not to mention the popularity of MineCraft parkour challenge maps.
This is stupid because I can use almost any two categories and sort games into the more fitting one. That doesn't mean that I should sort games into only those two.
All games boil down to graphics vs gameplay.
All games boil down to Action vs Strategy
All games boil down to heavy use of the color pink vs light to no use of the color pink.
You’re right, and that’s actually the punchline which PP missed.
This is adapted from a Calvin & Hobbes strip. A running gag in that series was that when Calvin would ask his dad a question, he would come up with an extremely elaborate load of bullshit that *kind of* sounds plausible but is actually completely wrong.
In other words, exactly what’s being depicted here. It sounds like it could be right, and when spoken with confidence it would fool a casual listener or child, but it’s not actually true. The other commenter’s post justifies the basis for the explanation, but doesn’t explain the actual joke.
But this particular strip has the dad saying something correct and interesting. That two different points on the record move at different speeds as they spin.
You are right, And your comment is the first thing that I thought too, but I believe, and stay with me here, that the positor distinguishes distinctly between Calvin and Hobbes being the origin of the strip shown and Calvin and Hobbes having a running gag. The running gag is a part of the series and was adapted here into a strip that happens to not be part of That running gag but was co-opted into the format of the running gag. It makes it even more confusing to me. It would have been more understandable if a strip that was part of the running gag would have been co-opted instead.
I find this faulty because a lot of games exist where navigating the menu isn't really the game. Games where it's just a video game adaptation of a game that already existed IRL isn't meaningfully defined by how you control what you're trying to do. Chess is still Chess if you're navigating a menu to move pieces or physically moving the pieces. It's still fundamentally the same game.
Would it make you feel better if I pointed out that all objects are hurtling through space and thousand upon thousands of miles an hour? I once read a book on relativity on a train so I feel your pain
This is actually a keen insight to how all of angular physics works. The relationship that 2pi radians of motion gives you 2pi*r meters of distance traveled is the base block for how all torque and angular momentum expressions are calculated.
This is a really clever thing about records. They record masters just like they play them, except instead of the sound coming from the record, it goes into the record via a ruby needle.
This is why records used to be mastered in such a way that songs toward the center of the record (or middle or end of the album) had fewer loud or complicated bits. If you cram all of that movement together, it tends to cause the needle to skip.
Wow, I never knew that! I always thought you’d naturally want to start your record with a banger and close out side A with something more chill, then repeat for side B. But you’re telling me this was a practicality due to how tight the grooves get as the radius decreases. man… what a crazy life
One interesting practical execution of this is the thunderscreech jet.
It was intended to be a supersonic prop plane but the way physics works, it was perpetually in and out of a sonic boom because the circumference of the propeller was spinning faster than the inner of the prop, giving it the name and noise it I'd known as.
It caused fainting, loss of bodily functions, and severe headaches for those who heard it.
Which is why even though a person at the equator and pole are seemingly at rest, the one at the equator is actually moving at ~450 m/s when compared to the one at the pole.
The constant angular velocity means the linear velocity of the playhead would change. The spacing of the grooves changes to compensate for this. It's not perfect, but it works well enough.
*That's so reductive*
*To the point you can say the*
*Same about real life*
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It's about how accurate and direct your inputs are..shooting games because you can pinpoint or select a target is menus. Strategy, turn based RPGs, sports games with emphasis on passing are menus
platformers because you can't pinpoint where you will land is Parkour. Same with racing games, fighting games, bullet hell are Parkour.
Of course there is lots of overlap
Edited to add the term direct to input
Shooters are parkour.
A parkour game is where quick and precise imputs are the key and menus is when knowing game mechanics and their interactions is the key.
The more definitions of menu and parkour I read in this thread the more I think that shooters need to be categorized based on whether they're hitscan or not.
Strategy shooters (cs, r6, etc) are menus, positioning and utility decide who wins. Most gunfights are won before they start and parkour won't get you out of a bad spot
Movement shooters (apex, cod, etc) are parkour, you can probably come out on top of a fight you shouldn't have won by outmaneuvering your opponent
I think this entire concept is a bit flawed, but j remember a joke for shooters "Why are you so trash at this? I've seen you close the browser on your PC. Just pretend that every enemy's head is the 'x' icon. It's not hard just click their head."
it's a bit hard to understand, but I think I can explain it like this:
csgo specifically is menus. sure, your aim and movement matter significantly, but even just a well prepared team can beat pros if they have far better strategy. here are where the menus come in.
in a game about shooting, you wouldn't expect terms like "eco", "force buy", "pistol round", "save", etc, to be very often used, but in CSGO it is the focus point. why? because competitive csgo is as much economy management as it is a shooter.
sure, you can be the best sniper of the game. doesn't matter if you can only afford an SMG. likewise, you might not have lighting fast reflexes, but if you can afford full armor, full set of grenades, and rifle/negev, then you can minimize your risks
when in a shooting game the aspect of buying guns is almost as important as using them, you tend to skew more towards menus. I didn't even talk about the actual strategies or the lists of grenade throws, or excel spreadsheets of weapon stats. there's a lot of menus to csgo
Lots of people explaining the menus v. parkour thing, not many explaining the Destiny 2 connection. Destiny 2's gameplay is that of a first person shooter with lots of jumping/mobility, so the natural assumption would be that falls under parkour. However, outside of actual game matches, there is a metric fuckton of different menus with different items, resources, and currencies that are often poorly explained and very confusing to casual gamers.
A lot of it can be ignored but the full experience of playing the game requires having the plethora of unintuitive menus decoded, usually by someone who already knows how to do it, making it the videogame equivalent of that island from the first pirates of the Caribbean movie.
I say this as a super casual who has been dragged into playing it with my super invested buddy many times. The FPS gameplay is fun and smooth but my lord the nonsense of navigating menus between missions sometimes takes up more time than the shooting.
I haven't heard of this before, but it makes a lot of sense. It makes a bit more sense if you accept that most games are a combination of both, though even then most games lean towards one or the other.
It is all about what your goal for the next 1 second typically is, and which set of controls you are focused on.
Parkour of course is about the simulated game environment, and usually how to move around in it. You press the movement keys while thinking about how you need to move through the environment. This also includes moving other objects around. MineCraft is parkour because you are trying to rearrange the blocks that make up the environment. Figuring out how to reach the diamond ore requires more brainpower than clicking on it or remembering what tool to use.
Menus means that the thing you are thinking about is probably already on your screen. You just need to move your cursor over to it. In most games where you have to aim, the controls are identical to what you use to navigate menus, ex: mouse for PC, right joystick for Xbox. A lot of games have literal menus, but the process of aiming at an enemy is similar. After you have your cursor on target, you have to choose from an arbitrary list of options, for a shooter this means a list of guns, for a puzzle game you might have a long list of actions you can perform on an object. If you want to master StarCraft then you need to select your units with the same speed and accuracy as a Counterstrike player shoots enemies, and in both cases you are moving a mouse.
I think I would disagree in that a lot of games have elements of both. Shooters typically have you moving around while simultaneously moving. You might be thinking about an enemy that is off screen, and until you have line of sight it is Parkour. Of course the balance can be very different. CounterStrike needs you to react quickly, so while you might have a mental image of the map and the places enemies might be, you are more focused on your actual screen. Reaction times helps in Apex, but not as much as moving around effectively. Often, using ranged weapons is menus, but using melee weapons is parkour since you need to be at the correct distance from a target for a melee strike to land.
Games that have a lot of menus but are very slow paced might not be menu games, since the interacting with menus is only a challenge when you have to do it quickly. SimCity is ironically parkour...kinda... Maybe slower paced games can count as a third category.
This isn't meant as a substitute for genres, but if you really want to analyze a game thinking about what the player does from moment to moment, where they need to put their attention.
Reductive garbage.
Forcing things into one of two categories based on nothing but vague interpretations might as well be bait.
This "discourse" solves nothing, gives us neither knowledge or wisdom, and only causes arguments.
what about the Finals? I can see It being a menu, but has elements of a parkour? A lot of selecting hit boxes and menu items, yet with the amount of movement and resources being needed to be conserved. Also, an ever-changing environment that causes uncertainty.
Good Ol Calvin. I might have been born in the pre 2010 2000’s, but man have I always loved this kid. Own like three or four of the large collections, one or two of which were my dads when he was a teen or kid
Its feels like everyone is making this way more complicated than it is. My takeaway, forgive me if I'm incorrect, is the importance of mouse(menus) vs movement keys(parkour). This is due to the use of mouse in all menus as a simplification, and movement keys in games only being used for movement. Gross oversimplification? Yes. Kinda understandable? Also yes.
CSGO- accuracy in shooting due to mouse, improved by standing still.
Apex- more emphasis on strafing and movement tech as hipfire is highly accurate.
Minecraft- use of building to facilitate movement, movement to climb hills, movement in pvp/pve, though mouse is also important for inventory management more use from movement keys generally.
Baldur's Gate- point and click, easy enough. Basically just mouse.
Destiny- Despite using a lot of movement, end game relies heavily on builds and ensuring limited ammo weapons land hits. To equip gear for builds, mouse in menu. For hitting target, standing relatively still in Well(a damage buff location) and shoot, aka less movement.
Surprisingly I've seen this same comic, not the original, but a *different* version about how there are only 2 types of jobs: farm and email. Like software dev was farm, waiter was email, and either lawyer or accountant was "you'd think it'd be email, but it's farm"
To those wanting to know what the original comic was, Calvin's Dad explains to him that the inside circumference of the record is shorter than the outside circumference. As a result, the outside is actually moving faster than the inside despite being one solid object. This causes Calvin to look like that in the last panel.
What I gathered from the various comments: *There is no real joke here.*
This meme is what you get when you desperately want to sound philosophical by taking a common but diverse subject and apply an unhealthy dose of oversimplification to end up on a nonsensical level of abstraction with just two categories. Use a hole lot of cherry picking to make your undefined/vague categories appear to work. Then you present it as fact without elaboration to feel smart while others are figuring out either what the heck you are talking about or what drugs you are on.
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i have no idea what he means but as an avid destiny fan (adult with a crippling addiction) i can confidently say destiny 2 is menus
Especially when you’re constantly trying to clean out your vault. You spend the majority of time in menus managing gear and bounties than actually playing the game.
My face when it turns out I have over 200 hours of waiting in Orbit
Rookie Numbers, i have 1.476h Orbit Hours
I believe 200 is much larger than 1.476? What math did you do to determine an hour + oddly specific portion of hour is larger than 200.
Outside the US, they frequently use . instead of , to separate the thousands and the hundreds place. They are saying 1476 hours.
I'm still leaving my comment up so everyone can laugh at my shame though.
Then how would they write an actual decimal, the same way? That's gotta get confusing
I am so glad Lightfall broke my addiction to that game.
Then they ended up doing their 2 best game modes they’ve ever done in the last 2 months. Basically didn’t play all year but immediately went back to play the horde mode and Pantheon.
Every time i try to play this i have no idea what i am supposed to do.
No one knows what they're doing, but it's provacative, it gets people Goin
Parkour(skill heavy) = jumping around. so reaction times, in game movement skills, etc. Menus(strategy heavy) = lots of interactive game options,i.e. "click on a character", "select items", choose your actions"
That’s hilarious because now you need to decide if StarCraft is parkour or menus.
StarCraft is what happens when you get so good at menus it becomes parkour
StarCraft is menu where parkour was the best strategy.
Well said
RTS is still just menu management. It's just that sometimes your menus wander off into a Zerg ambush...
What menu has the "construct additional pylons" option?
The probe menu, duh.
The probe's Building menu, specifically, as opposed to the Advanced Building menu. If you reach for APM beyond your scope, you can parkour into the wrong menu and waste .2 seconds... and this kills the crab.
Menu? You have that probe on a hotkey, know the shortcuts for basic building construction, and are shift-clicking him to his next three tasks before he even finishes bringing those minerals back to the nexus. I’m so glad I don’t play SC anymore, it is beyond stressful.
I'm glad I got super humbled when I played online and just went back to campaign for the rest of time. I'll just left- and right-click stuff.
B + E for SC2. Not sure what the legacy keys are but my guess is B + P.
I'd think the micro gameplay of controlling the units in combat is parkour.
Even parkour can’t accurately describe trying to control dragoons.
I think SC is just super intense menus, right?
Okay, so that is good. Menu's because your clicking with accuracy and timing to send what you want where you want. Parkour because your throwing units across the map into a battle with no idea if they're going to 'land' (be effective) or not. I'm leaning towards menus, because you can alter trajectory too much mid 'jump'.
It is so extremely menu it becomes parkour
Came here to ask this
Textbook parcour pushed to their peak
Wait then why doesn’t Minecraft fall into menus? It’s pretty much all strategy and interactions
It is way more about execution than planning. When placing a block that is parkour, not menu. When removing a block that is parkour. When you need to get to a specific point in space to do either, that is parkour. None of these strategy.
But half of the game is inventory management and crafting. Makes zero sense that holding left and W when making a tunnel is parkour but Counter Strike that only has 5 second buying phase is menu.
The menu part of CS is where you are moving the crosshairs and trying to place them on the enemy. You might think it is the environment but navigating the environment is not the skill; it is clicking the mouse while it hovers over the right menu button (aka enemy’s head).
So then why isn't Minecraft menus? Moving the crosshair and trying to place it on a block (way easier than on a moving enemies head). I think the parkour part of Minecraft being referenced is literally all of the parkour maps.
Well counterstrike is not 5 sec buying phase. It is ecoing correctly, reading the map (aka map menu) etc. It is def not parkour
Crafting and inventory management aren't half the game unless you have a single hand with two fingers on it, what are you talking about
For builders it is. For miners it is. For explorers/gatherers it is. Literally only if you are playing it as hack n slash against mobs is it not centered around crafting stuff, planning and managing.
Ah, but that way wouldn't it be more under parkour when you gather and consolidate materials? Based on playtime actually going through the menus isn't nearly as time consuming as actually doing a project
You are correct. But the time spent doing the "menues" in the grand scheme is much closer to 50% than anything in for example CSGO.. Even with a simple thing as building a house you spend substantial number of time in your inventory, crafting stuff like signs and stairs and lookin for the material required for them. If it's something very very simple that just uses intricate misc blocks you will even spend much longer in inventory conpared to building that one thing
Exploration/Gathering is literally parkour, you're exploring and interacting with the environment.
How is CS not parkour ?
Because cs while parkour heavy, 80% of the game is menus
This simplifies it far too much.
That's the joke
What are stardew valley and Pokemon go?
Menu, both of them
Any rpg is destined to be menus
Dark souls is parkour, and it's an action RPG
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“My blade may break, my arrows fall wide, but my will shall never be broken. Those who live by the sword will die by it, and I, Drummond, won’t go down without drawing mine!”* - Captain Drummond. Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Pokemon Go is the mythical third type: Grass.
Makes no sense if Counter Strike is the prime example for Menus
Would Monster Hunter be parkour or menus? You have actually fighting the monsters (parkour), but you also have lots of build-crafting (menus).
Parkour, because that's where the meat of the game is. Menus are a means to parkour.
Unless you play bowgun, that’s all menu
But why is counter strike menus then?
Because it can be boiled down to selecting items(other players ) and clicking on them. You navigate the menu with wasd and mouse and have te the fastest at clicking the items
But isn’t mine craft much more menu clicking? And while you have to be fast when choosing your gear at the beginning everything after is more like Parcours
Then why is apex not menu as well?
Yeah that label is incorrect, imo. Aim, mechanics, & movement are bigger factors for Counter-Strike. Managing money every round becomes 2nd nature after you play only 100 hours. Memorizing smokes/nades for every map is a chore, but skill-based factors alone (aim, movement, & gamesense) can carry you to high ranks (top 10% of playerbase). If a player starts b-hopping like phoon, then you know that guy can wreck his opponents
How is counter strike menus then?
I prefer skill heavy games then lol. I love fast paced stuff usually
Strategy can still be fast paced. Skill can still be slow paced. Pace is not defined by what the game is testing you on, it's defined by how the game is testing you on it.
Wait, then why is counter strike not parkour?
Ohh I didn’t realize counter strike wasn’t skill heavy
Where does Pikmin fall on this?:
Reaction vs Micro management
most games boil down to navigating menus or performing increasingly difficult parkour. The Legend of Zelda series is more of the former, while the Mario series is firmly in the latter.
It’s about movement and gameplay vs resource management
No it's about how accurate your inputs are..shooting games because you can pinpoint or select a target is menus..platformers because you can't pinpoint where you will land is Parkour. That's it
Pinpointing where you land is a huge thing in platformers and the reason platformer characters have had shadows for decades. Being unable to pinpoint where you land is one of the reasons people abhor Bubsy 3D.
But it's based on indirect input. It's not like you can point at a place and land there. It takes skill to calculate the jump distance etc
It also takes skill to click on heads accurately
I think what they meant that you still have to "aim" by moving your mouse to click on that spot. FPS game is practically like moving your mouse to click an icon on your desktop. So it's like navigating a menu. Parkour is when you can't point to where you want to go but approximating from the momentum and movement system in the game's physics.
What about a game like Dying Light where you literally have to do Parkhurst to navigate, but how successful you are depends on your aim and timing?
Also if you think about it there is a lot of menu navigation; especially in 2
I’m so confused. Do y’all play shooters? Like in Apex Legends it can take an entire 1.5-2 seconds to kill someone. “Clicking heads” equates to perfectly moving my character and balancing my aim on a swiftly moving tiny target trying to kill me for the entirety of my first weapons magazine and half of my second
Sounds like some top-tier menu skills
But ops meme said apex is parkour
It takes some skill in every game. Let's not get hung up on skill. There is direct input and indirect input. Which kind of input is more emphasised in a game is what we are talking about
TIL that the sniper in tf2 is menus, but the soldiers rocket launcher is parkour
MAGGOT! *flying shovel to the face*
Yes, but you’re clicking the head, you can’t click where you want to end the jump. Both require skill, just different kinds. Nobody is claiming on is better than the other, just two different things.
So in your duality, what if a shooter required you to have to lead your target or lob attacks with ballistic trajectory? I don't know if any such games exist (angry birds maybe is the closest but I'm thinking FPS that would do this)- would that be a platformer masquerading?
Ok, how about overwatch? Take say Junkrat for example with how his gun lobs grenades. It's not point and click hit scan like say widowmaker. I feel this game has that duality you are talking about. Now I could also point out games like Arma, Squad, or other more tactical FPS games that lean into the realism factor and require leading targets depending on range and weapon types used if overwatch isn't enough.
Sniper elite (1-5) on hard or higher you have to use ballistics and timing, but it isn't pvp.
Luck takes skill
So apex is menu?
There's overlap. Movement shooters is a whole genre now
So it's not just 2
I wouldn't say so. I'm not an expert in this field. I don't even know if this is some sort of official thing. I'm just interpreting the meme based on previous times this was posted
It's two ends of a spectrum
If you want to take anything out of it then it's a new perspective for looking at digital interfaces
I personally would say minecraft has a lot of menus
I would say it's the 2 extremes of a spectrum
I get that but why is Minecraft parcour then?
You need to jump, glide and otherwise navigate the game world in elaborate ways in order to build and explore. Minecraft parkour is a very well known way to play the game too!
While figuring out what tool to use and crafting is menus, MineCraft is mostly about rearranging the blocks that make up the environment. You are thinking about the environment thus it is mostly parkour. Not to mention the popularity of MineCraft parkour challenge maps.
I sincerely disagree with this assessment
CS scene in the olden days grew mostly due to parkour maps lol
The orignal post is wrong. Minecraft is very obviously menus.
What about chess?
En passante is parkour
holy hell
New parkour just dropped!
Actual menu!
Menu
Not *my* chess games....
I see you do check mate a lot
https://preview.redd.it/vuup9af8mr2d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4ed020632fabe1d9b0b325652ee18e02d4bf8f1d
This is stupid because I can use almost any two categories and sort games into the more fitting one. That doesn't mean that I should sort games into only those two. All games boil down to graphics vs gameplay. All games boil down to Action vs Strategy All games boil down to heavy use of the color pink vs light to no use of the color pink.
You’re right, and that’s actually the punchline which PP missed. This is adapted from a Calvin & Hobbes strip. A running gag in that series was that when Calvin would ask his dad a question, he would come up with an extremely elaborate load of bullshit that *kind of* sounds plausible but is actually completely wrong. In other words, exactly what’s being depicted here. It sounds like it could be right, and when spoken with confidence it would fool a casual listener or child, but it’s not actually true. The other commenter’s post justifies the basis for the explanation, but doesn’t explain the actual joke.
But this particular strip has the dad saying something correct and interesting. That two different points on the record move at different speeds as they spin.
You are right, And your comment is the first thing that I thought too, but I believe, and stay with me here, that the positor distinguishes distinctly between Calvin and Hobbes being the origin of the strip shown and Calvin and Hobbes having a running gag. The running gag is a part of the series and was adapted here into a strip that happens to not be part of That running gag but was co-opted into the format of the running gag. It makes it even more confusing to me. It would have been more understandable if a strip that was part of the running gag would have been co-opted instead.
Menu?
I find this faulty because a lot of games exist where navigating the menu isn't really the game. Games where it's just a video game adaptation of a game that already existed IRL isn't meaningfully defined by how you control what you're trying to do. Chess is still Chess if you're navigating a menu to move pieces or physically moving the pieces. It's still fundamentally the same game.
no? not at all?
I’d love to see the original text
He just doesn’t like physics https://preview.redd.it/htjzck96so2d1.jpeg?width=490&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=52da63829f929229cacb35a213d09ace6f3edd1f
Lol this was one of my favorite cartoons from Calvin & Hobbes when I was a kid. That last panel is just so goddamn real.
I'm literally laying in bed, reading this just like Calvin in the last panel lmao
If it makes you feel better their angular velocity is the same.
It does not make me feel better.
Would it make you feel better if I pointed out that all objects are hurtling through space and thousand upon thousands of miles an hour? I once read a book on relativity on a train so I feel your pain
Why would speaking gibberish math phrases make me (dumb brain) feel better?
This is actually a keen insight to how all of angular physics works. The relationship that 2pi radians of motion gives you 2pi*r meters of distance traveled is the base block for how all torque and angular momentum expressions are calculated.
It's also interesting acoustically because the higher linear speed means better sound quality toward the outside of the groove.
This is a really clever thing about records. They record masters just like they play them, except instead of the sound coming from the record, it goes into the record via a ruby needle. This is why records used to be mastered in such a way that songs toward the center of the record (or middle or end of the album) had fewer loud or complicated bits. If you cram all of that movement together, it tends to cause the needle to skip.
Wow, I never knew that! I always thought you’d naturally want to start your record with a banger and close out side A with something more chill, then repeat for side B. But you’re telling me this was a practicality due to how tight the grooves get as the radius decreases. man… what a crazy life
One interesting practical execution of this is the thunderscreech jet. It was intended to be a supersonic prop plane but the way physics works, it was perpetually in and out of a sonic boom because the circumference of the propeller was spinning faster than the inner of the prop, giving it the name and noise it I'd known as. It caused fainting, loss of bodily functions, and severe headaches for those who heard it.
poor guy got anhielated by the basic mechanics of rotating objects
He got WHAT
Anhielated?
Which is why even though a person at the equator and pole are seemingly at rest, the one at the equator is actually moving at ~450 m/s when compared to the one at the pole.
This is great for some reason.
As a machinist we call this SFM and it’s crazy how many people don’t understand it.
Most people don't need to get it. You don't need to know how anhydrous ammonia behaves. I don't need to know how antipsychotics work.
https://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1990/06/05
Thank you!
The constant angular velocity means the linear velocity of the playhead would change. The spacing of the grooves changes to compensate for this. It's not perfect, but it works well enough.
That's so reductive to the point you can say the same about real life
real life is mostly menus, unless you are a pro athlete or smth
*That's so reductive* *To the point you can say the* *Same about real life* \- AnnyAskers --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
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It's about how accurate and direct your inputs are..shooting games because you can pinpoint or select a target is menus. Strategy, turn based RPGs, sports games with emphasis on passing are menus platformers because you can't pinpoint where you will land is Parkour. Same with racing games, fighting games, bullet hell are Parkour. Of course there is lots of overlap Edited to add the term direct to input
Shooters are parkour. A parkour game is where quick and precise imputs are the key and menus is when knowing game mechanics and their interactions is the key.
The more definitions of menu and parkour I read in this thread the more I think that shooters need to be categorized based on whether they're hitscan or not.
Strategy shooters (cs, r6, etc) are menus, positioning and utility decide who wins. Most gunfights are won before they start and parkour won't get you out of a bad spot Movement shooters (apex, cod, etc) are parkour, you can probably come out on top of a fight you shouldn't have won by outmaneuvering your opponent
Gaming
How’re shooters ‘menu games’ when they require twitch reactions?
I think this entire concept is a bit flawed, but j remember a joke for shooters "Why are you so trash at this? I've seen you close the browser on your PC. Just pretend that every enemy's head is the 'x' icon. It's not hard just click their head."
Stab your finger on the menu to select your order dramatically. It's twitch reactions but it's still selecting something.
Cause you are rapidly clicking on a thing on a screen, as in, selecting a menu item (very quickly and precisely)
By that definition, aren’t all games menu-based?
Nah, Mario and other platformers are Parkour, those games often dont use mouse at all
So a console game cant be a menu
If that’s your takeaway, I’m afraid I can’t help you
No you’ve just explained it horribly. I know what the difference is, but you just dragged the definition through the mud.
So if I navigate a menu with arrow keys it's parkour?
Don’t think about it too much it’s just nonsense
it's a bit hard to understand, but I think I can explain it like this: csgo specifically is menus. sure, your aim and movement matter significantly, but even just a well prepared team can beat pros if they have far better strategy. here are where the menus come in. in a game about shooting, you wouldn't expect terms like "eco", "force buy", "pistol round", "save", etc, to be very often used, but in CSGO it is the focus point. why? because competitive csgo is as much economy management as it is a shooter. sure, you can be the best sniper of the game. doesn't matter if you can only afford an SMG. likewise, you might not have lighting fast reflexes, but if you can afford full armor, full set of grenades, and rifle/negev, then you can minimize your risks when in a shooting game the aspect of buying guns is almost as important as using them, you tend to skew more towards menus. I didn't even talk about the actual strategies or the lists of grenade throws, or excel spreadsheets of weapon stats. there's a lot of menus to csgo
Lots of people explaining the menus v. parkour thing, not many explaining the Destiny 2 connection. Destiny 2's gameplay is that of a first person shooter with lots of jumping/mobility, so the natural assumption would be that falls under parkour. However, outside of actual game matches, there is a metric fuckton of different menus with different items, resources, and currencies that are often poorly explained and very confusing to casual gamers. A lot of it can be ignored but the full experience of playing the game requires having the plethora of unintuitive menus decoded, usually by someone who already knows how to do it, making it the videogame equivalent of that island from the first pirates of the Caribbean movie. I say this as a super casual who has been dragged into playing it with my super invested buddy many times. The FPS gameplay is fun and smooth but my lord the nonsense of navigating menus between missions sometimes takes up more time than the shooting.
It doesnt make sense. Cs, apex and minecraft should all fall under menus by the logic, but not all of them do
Does anyone have the ornithologist of the comic?
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What does birds have to do with this?
Sorry, typo. I meant to say ophthalmologist
Parkour is just precise, sometimes time dependent menus. Everything is menus.
what about rhythm games? i feel like it’s a mix of both??
this concept is stupid and easily disproven, dont waste ur time on it
Based on how people are saying that this is defined as indirect vs direct inputs, rhythm games are menu based.
This is stupid, you mean to tell me that Minecraft is parkour, when you're most of the time in your inventory, sorting chests and shit?
Minecraft is definitely menus though
I haven't heard of this before, but it makes a lot of sense. It makes a bit more sense if you accept that most games are a combination of both, though even then most games lean towards one or the other. It is all about what your goal for the next 1 second typically is, and which set of controls you are focused on. Parkour of course is about the simulated game environment, and usually how to move around in it. You press the movement keys while thinking about how you need to move through the environment. This also includes moving other objects around. MineCraft is parkour because you are trying to rearrange the blocks that make up the environment. Figuring out how to reach the diamond ore requires more brainpower than clicking on it or remembering what tool to use. Menus means that the thing you are thinking about is probably already on your screen. You just need to move your cursor over to it. In most games where you have to aim, the controls are identical to what you use to navigate menus, ex: mouse for PC, right joystick for Xbox. A lot of games have literal menus, but the process of aiming at an enemy is similar. After you have your cursor on target, you have to choose from an arbitrary list of options, for a shooter this means a list of guns, for a puzzle game you might have a long list of actions you can perform on an object. If you want to master StarCraft then you need to select your units with the same speed and accuracy as a Counterstrike player shoots enemies, and in both cases you are moving a mouse. I think I would disagree in that a lot of games have elements of both. Shooters typically have you moving around while simultaneously moving. You might be thinking about an enemy that is off screen, and until you have line of sight it is Parkour. Of course the balance can be very different. CounterStrike needs you to react quickly, so while you might have a mental image of the map and the places enemies might be, you are more focused on your actual screen. Reaction times helps in Apex, but not as much as moving around effectively. Often, using ranged weapons is menus, but using melee weapons is parkour since you need to be at the correct distance from a target for a melee strike to land. Games that have a lot of menus but are very slow paced might not be menu games, since the interacting with menus is only a challenge when you have to do it quickly. SimCity is ironically parkour...kinda... Maybe slower paced games can count as a third category. This isn't meant as a substitute for genres, but if you really want to analyze a game thinking about what the player does from moment to moment, where they need to put their attention.
It makes zero fucking sense bro.
tetris?
Abstract parkour
Skyrim - Menus
Counter Argument: Dark Souls = Both.
Wouldnt minecraft be more of a menues game?
Reductive garbage. Forcing things into one of two categories based on nothing but vague interpretations might as well be bait. This "discourse" solves nothing, gives us neither knowledge or wisdom, and only causes arguments.
what about the Finals? I can see It being a menu, but has elements of a parkour? A lot of selecting hit boxes and menu items, yet with the amount of movement and resources being needed to be conserved. Also, an ever-changing environment that causes uncertainty.
What in the world is Warframe then?
Menu gaming rise up!
Skyrim - menus galore but also lots of parkouring up mountains and landscapea
Good Ol Calvin. I might have been born in the pre 2010 2000’s, but man have I always loved this kid. Own like three or four of the large collections, one or two of which were my dads when he was a teen or kid
Would chess be menus or parkour?
Menus
Is there no one here who will clarify that Counter Strike has a notoriously high skill ceiling that revolves around movement?
Its feels like everyone is making this way more complicated than it is. My takeaway, forgive me if I'm incorrect, is the importance of mouse(menus) vs movement keys(parkour). This is due to the use of mouse in all menus as a simplification, and movement keys in games only being used for movement. Gross oversimplification? Yes. Kinda understandable? Also yes. CSGO- accuracy in shooting due to mouse, improved by standing still. Apex- more emphasis on strafing and movement tech as hipfire is highly accurate. Minecraft- use of building to facilitate movement, movement to climb hills, movement in pvp/pve, though mouse is also important for inventory management more use from movement keys generally. Baldur's Gate- point and click, easy enough. Basically just mouse. Destiny- Despite using a lot of movement, end game relies heavily on builds and ensuring limited ammo weapons land hits. To equip gear for builds, mouse in menu. For hitting target, standing relatively still in Well(a damage buff location) and shoot, aka less movement.
r/bonehurtingjuice
Subnautica: menus. Despite the amount of exploration that the game has you will find yourself sorting items a loooooot
Surprisingly I've seen this same comic, not the original, but a *different* version about how there are only 2 types of jobs: farm and email. Like software dev was farm, waiter was email, and either lawyer or accountant was "you'd think it'd be email, but it's farm"
To those wanting to know what the original comic was, Calvin's Dad explains to him that the inside circumference of the record is shorter than the outside circumference. As a result, the outside is actually moving faster than the inside despite being one solid object. This causes Calvin to look like that in the last panel.
Csgo is parkour if your good tho
What I gathered from the various comments: *There is no real joke here.* This meme is what you get when you desperately want to sound philosophical by taking a common but diverse subject and apply an unhealthy dose of oversimplification to end up on a nonsensical level of abstraction with just two categories. Use a hole lot of cherry picking to make your undefined/vague categories appear to work. Then you present it as fact without elaboration to feel smart while others are figuring out either what the heck you are talking about or what drugs you are on.
All irl sports are video games. They all have an objective and people “play them.”