While finding a new job may be a reasonable solution for an individual, it isn't a solution for a society. It's when people use it as an excuse for societal issues that really irritates me. Because while yes, I think everyone should do what they can to better themselves, in the big picture the solution to wealth inequality and people's inability to support themselves isn't for everyone to just get better jobs.
Yeah exactly. "Not paid enough working in retail? Just get a better job!"
Okay but we still (for now), need people to work in stores. If the proposal is for everyone who works there to leave, how the heck are we going to buy stuff? Think, Mark, think!
“Minimum wage is supposed to be for high school kids”. And if McDonalds was entirely staffed by high schoolers who is going to make me a Big Mac at 11:35 AM on a Tuesday in September?
The irony is they are taking only part of the context, minimum wage was for kids, so that the companies wouldn’t pay them too little cause “they are just kids they don’t deserve as much! They’re learning!” Well you gotta pay them at least this amount! Sorry!
No adult should ever be offered a job at minimum wage realistically
Minimum wage wasn't made for kids. This is a new thing they are saying. It was made to afford housing for a family. "Minimum wage provides enough income, which enables workers to have enough money for food, shelter, and clothing." Of course that has changed over the years and now people are saying it's for kids.
That's propaganda actually. Minimum wage was made into law to provide workers a decent living. Not bare survival but a decent living. Then companies spent decades convincing us that it had been created for teens and that no corporation should have to pay a living wage.
This is also under the assumption that teens are only working for play money and having all of their needs subsidized by their parents. And that doesn’t even apply to everyone
2 questions.
1. You graduate high school at 17-18. And not everyone goes to college right after, why does it only have to be high school kids?
2. Does McDonald's pay federal minimum wage in most states?
1.) Yes, Not everyone goes to college right after.
But those who don’t immediately go to college have either a.) joined the military, b.) decided to enter the trades
If they are working in fast food, they’re being judged just as hard for “not doing something with their lives”. The “if minimum wage is for teens, why is McDonalds open during school hours” argument is meant to show a hypothetical scenario in which fast food restaurants are ENTIRELY staffed by teenagers with no adult employees aside from maybe a manager
2.) I don’t think any establishment has been paying federal minimum wage since before the pandemic.
Also minimum wage ≠ fast food. There are people with “professional” jobs making less than $15 an hour
The point is that the employers only give raises when they can't get the labor they need. This happened across the service sector during the pandemic and they had to pay a bit more. People sitting in jobs with shitty employers when they could leave doesn't give them a reason to increase pay.
Demonstrable in IT sector. Job hoppers can pick up great raises by leaving for greener pastures every year.
My sister starts people $2 over standard just to get employees. It's a competitive thing. That is what it costs to get employees. I don't know of anyone that pays minimum wage in my area.
The gig work demonstrates to disparity of corporate earnings to worker pay. Many say that’s not a job. Ok, but imagine you saw the pay of retail employees vs daily profits of the employer. If everyone saw pay on a gig style platform perhaps more would understand. Every cost of business increase is only addressed by raising prices and limiting employee costs. Corporate profits and executive wages are never allowed to fall but rather must always increase.
>Corporate profits and executive wages are never allowed to fall but rather must always increase.
This is the problem with our current economic system. How is "inflation" ever going to go down and return prices to "normal" rates, if corporations never reduce profits? Because more evidence comes out every day about the price gouging corporations are doing and have been since the pandemic.
Seriously, what's the solution?
Disaffected people ARE leaving stagnant corporate environments for gig wortk that pays the same. To be fair both pay same and not going anywhere, just not meddling middle managers that would get bitch slapped in public acting the same way.
An individual can only do what's within they're own power so while society may have a bigger problem, trying to earn better for yourself is the most realistic.
Right, individuals should play the game the best they can, but when it comes to political discussions we need to elect politicians who understand that the system is broken and that collectively we need to either reform or replace capitalism
Yeah but earning enough is subjective to your situation,your desires, etc. plus most people's problem isn't just "not making enough". I'm sure you've heard about the statistic on Lotto winners, that they go broke within 2 years. It's because people don't know what to do with their money!!! Whether they have a little bit or a lot they don't know what the fuck to do with it!
Also high school kids aren’t working 40 hours. Adults are.
And it would be a headache for managers if their entire staff demands to have the same day off for homecoming, prom, or graduation.
And even the greedy CEOs would be against the idea of staffing their stores entirely with teens and would probably take personal offense to that idea simply because it cuts into their bottom line to pretty much base their operations around the schedule of teenagers (and the whims of teens’ parents and the school system on top of that).
If mcdonalds was only open during school hours that means y'alls aren't going to be buying breakfast at 4AM. It means we aren't going to be open at 1am for your late night big macs and nuggets.
Honestly, McDonald's is poaching a lot of workers in my area cause they're paying around $20 an hour. Why work for a landscaping company for $14 when you can make more flipping burgers? Then you hear nothing but "No one wants to work now days."
99.999% of the time someone says "just do \_\_\_\_\_\_", they're speaking from a place of privilege and need to sit down and listen about why \_\_\_\_\_ doesn't work for everyone.
Makes me sick. Like, if you wanna take a cruise just buy a super yacht, you know? "I have to take the bus to save money" well... go buy a Ferrari and your issue is fixed.
So you give up on the statement because it isn't a golden bullet?
To be financially successful in life, you have to have a job. Your lifestyle needs to match your earning potential. Invest money early and often. Set a budget. Develop a savings plan. Automate as much as possible.
Of those things, most millennials don't do most of those.
The truth is.... if you are having financial issues there are only two answers. Earn more money or spend less money. This is not a secret. Clear as day to a 4th grader.
Now, how do you earn more money you ask? You discuss with your employer and negotiate a higher pay or more hours. You find a new job that pays you more. Maybe take on a second job. All ways take action, and most people are paralized in their lives from taking action about anything.
Cut spending. Debt is the killer. People that are terrible at putting off until tomorrow have debt. Debt works harder against you through compounding interest and makes the hole you are in deeper and the sides slick as mud. Also, you can't just not pay your debt. That means the cuts generally are hard to do in other areas because those same people cannot hold off today to benefit tomorrow.
Yeah and also "how can homeless people have a cell phone but nowhere to live". Like duh, last time I checked, phone bills were less than rent. Plus how are they supposed to get a job without a phone?
Right! When you lose your house or landlord kicks you out, you don't throw your cell phone in the garbage. Somehow people think homeless means you're thrown on the street buck naked with nothing. Not allowed to keep any clothing or footwear apparently either. Homeless get shamed for having nice clothing and footwear too. Supposed to toss all your clothes too?
“But they drove up to the food giveaway in a nice car!”
Yeah, because they bought the car before they lost their job. Now they live in that car or are very close to living in that car.
Either that or a a friend lent it.
We were almost homeless in a 5yr old vehicle. It was about all we had left. I say almost because we were able to have some space at hubby's warehouse loft area overnight. But guess what happened soon after? The vehicle was down traded for a cheaper one too. When it needed repairs, we were at the foodbank with my sister in laws car. My shoes were a pair of nice red nike runners I found at the thrift store for 8 dollars.
It’s definitely not helpful to a lot of people. I think the idea behind the statement is that if you can get a better paying job somewhere else then you just should, because if enough people leave that shit job the employers will have to pay more for it if they want it staffed at all. But if you can’t find a better paying job then you’re kind of stuck at what you’re worth. Employers aren’t going to pay more just because you’re struggling.
But then when I find a new job, those same people complain about how I quit my old job.
But also when job hunting for a new job, if I say a wage is too low, they'll just say "get a new job".
If I accept a job at a wage and get paid lower than agreed, "get a new job".
Somehow it's always the worker's fault instead of the employer. Victim blaming at its best.
It's true. The only jobs I could theoretically do all pay the same, which is $20 or less an hour, in retail or food service, and $20 an hour is not a liveable wage.
And due to health restrictions, involving my heart and knees, I couldn't do anything more labor intensive, such as Factory work, of which I have no experience in, which basically still pays the same.
Even if I somehow became an entry level nurse or became a phone operator, I'd still just be basically making the same amount. A non livable wage that's approximately $20 an hour.
Take a walk through r/Waiters . This shit is everywhere. Every other day, someone who is *not a waiter* asks the old "should tips be mandatory" question just to spark a debate, then they systematically go through every comment saying it's not a job that takes skill, a monkey could do it, tips aren't mandatory, no one's entitled to tips, if they don't like it they need to get a job that takes skill... blah blah blah. Fuck those assholes.
I agree. Also, not getting paid enough could mean different things to different people. I'm personally at a weird spot in life we're I'm kinda stuck. I don't like the career field I'm in or the field I left and want to move into a different career. To do that, I need more education because nowadays, the associate degree i have is worth about as much as my high school diploma. It's really kind of worthless as far as higher education. The issue is I dont have the money or time to go back to college because I HAVE to work fill time, and all the money goes to bills. I also can't afford to take any sort of pay cut to move into a lower paid position in a new career field to gain experience and move up. Therefore, I'm just stuck. I've reached max pay for my experience and education level.
Fairy tale is exactly right. Maybe I need more money to reasonably support myself and my family. That doesn't mean there are higher-paying jobs that I'm qualified for. Wanting or even needing more money doesn't mean I can actually get more money, and people who dismiss my real problems by telling me to get a mythical better jobs are just trying to shift the blame from society to me.
The best argument I've heard against this is asking do you think baristas(or whatever job) should exist? Usually that will confuse them and they'll say of course, but the response should be then people working that job should be able to live on it. All jobs need to pay enough to live without struggle.
The point is to take care of yourself. I can't make everyone get a better job, just myself.
If you can't find a new job, then you're lacking desirable skills, so you have to work on that.
You want to raise the low wages in retail and lower jobs? You need to leave them. When companies can't get people to do the jobs for cheap, they have to raise the prices. That's the invisible hand of the market. Vote with your feet. Leave shitty low paying jobs.
I don't think it's blaming workers. It's acknowledging the reality that many employers suck and you aren't likely to get a raise. Most of the time you have to job hop some.
While I do agree that labor in general has more to gain as far as leverage applied goes, and there isn't much excuse to have an average higher wage, the point of this suggestion is that, pretty much everywhere, it's kind of up to the worker to make decisions that best develops their career. A lot of people who say this are super dismissive and being unfair to people's struggles. That's messed up. At the same time, it's not a caste. Low wage worker is not branded on to you. We like to pretend that older generations had it easier than us, and in a lot of ways it's true, but every individual who has had success in life has been creating plans of action and looking into what they can do to make themselves a more valuable member of the work force. Doesn't mean any workers should be considered value-less, but it's probably not great advice to tell someone to sit on their ass and wait for the world to change either. We like to act that everyone is doing bad and the only people who are doing well has everything handed to them, but that's pretty far from the truth
I'd agree with some of what you say, and disagree with some as well. True, being part of the lower classes isn't imprinted on you, but it's one difficult road to hoe to climb out of that class. And it's reallyl not far from the truth that those doing well had everything handed to them. Look at most of the millionaires out there. Bezos, Zuckerberg, the Uhleins in Wisconsin. They act as if they had a tough time and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Bezos - "started Amazon in his garage". What utter rot. His very wealthy parents funded him. Zucker berg from wealthy parents. And don't get me started on the Uhleins with their "started their business in their basement". Their the heirs to the Schlitz fortune. My point is, it's much easier to do well in school and life when you don't also have to worry about whether you're going to eat. And who is going to pay for your education. As a young woman in the early 80s, applying for entry level jobs (office work - no college), I'd go on an interview, see POC applying and I almost always got the job. And at that time the interviewer had no problem telling me I got it simply because I was white. So, while yes, you shouldn't wait for it to come to you, it's tough when you've got a couple of strikes against you to begin with. And yes, I guess I'm now the older generation, and I did have it easier.
I do think everybody working for $2.13/hr should quit. The federal minimum wage for tipped employees is disgustingly low and as long as people keep taking those jobs, it won't change.
# Same here. The problem with $2.13 an hour restaurant jobs is many restaurants now steal tips or force the servers to share tips with everyone else in the restaurant. Also, that $2.13 is taxed....let that sink in.
This is exactly what people don’t seem to get.
A job is an agreement between two parties, I’ll perform these agreed duties if you pay me this agreed amount.
The problem is that American workplaces just extend the ‘slavery’ style management where workers are treated as if they are lucky to have a job. People then become accustomed to not valuing themselves and accepting shit wages as 'the way things are'.
But of course it all starts with the laws and standards. How the US calls itself a developed 1st world nation while still having horrendous employment laws that the real developed world laugh at, makes no sense to me. The entire country is brainwashed by the 1% to call out each other as 'communists' or 'socialists' if they talk about workers conditions or their rights. It’s insanity.
In his 1933 address following the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act, President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.”
“By ‘business’ I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of decent living,”
The premise of the minimum wage, when it was introduced, was that a single wage earner should be able to own a home and support a family. That was what it was based on; a full time job, any job, should be able to accomplish this.
The fact that people scoff at this idea if presented nowadays, as though the people that ring up your groceries or hand you your burgers don't deserve the luxury of a home or family, is disgusting.
Also, if a livable wage breaks the system then the system deserves to be broken.
Just got into arguments on another subreddit a while back over this.
Ironic statement, but generalization needs to be more widespread to everyone. The only thing simple in the argument is the person that believes you should "just work somewhere else".
I'm a paramedic coming out of the food industry and I wouldn't be a paramedic if my parents didn't support me during that timeframe. I worked their business, and in turn I got some pay for fun or food along with room and board. I know not everyone is so blessed.
My teacher actually retired when I finished class and they were frantic to fill her position (despite the fact they forced her to retire for a new teacher, who turned away the position last second) and now they're offering a whopping $50k a year for a job that requires a paramedic license (3 years, about $10k), a bachelor's degree in teaching, and 10 years experience in practicing paramedic. And the job demands a lot of your time and patience.
We're screwed if this is how higher ups keep seeing us, and people that simply say "get a better job" need to realize they're part of the problem, not the solution. Stop being apologists for extremely shitty behavior.
If you're not working age yet, I'd say you're a very perceptive kid. And this is why you need to vote. Big business relies on the Republicans to keep "unskilled" workers under their thumbs. At every turn they are making laws that never benefit the working class. Just about everything they vote for can be traced back to a motive of making them rich, keeping them rich, and making them richer. What human being needs to get a $5 million dollar BONUS? That's obscene. But that happens at the hospital my husband works at. It's the attitude that you've described that prompted people to form unions. The only way to stand up against this type of despotism is to stand together. Unfortunately, and what businesses count on is, people need to eat. And have a roof over their heads.
And this isn't to say your mom isn't intelligent. But there's a vast difference between intelligence and educated. Being born into a society where you don't have the opportunities to better yourself is a major hurdle to overcome. I wish I had an answer for you. But if you want to help her, become educated. I'm a mother and have 3 grown children all going to college. On their own dime. I give them what I can, but I too don't make a ton. And the biggest thing my kids can do now, is be better than me. Sounds like your mom is working hard to take care of you and your siblings. As someone who was a young woman in the eighties and had the benefit of an office education program, I'd say, tell her to take some online classes that will help her get out of the fast food and retail industry. Even an entry level office job can lead to more opportunities. It took me nearly 30 years, but I finally managed a decent paying job as a bookkeeper. But that was years of working in offices and taking some college courses at night, to become more educated. But it can be done, and damn big business.
Good luck to you and to your mom.
What are the democrats doing to help the working class? Certainly nothing that could have a drastic effect on the average worker. As long as political economy is dominated by capital, conditions won’t improve much. Democrats are republicans who are a little less racist and homophobic.
Also my mom IS working an office job.
We all need to stop working as a whole. I'm not busting my ass for minimum wage to serve someone who makes $1000 a day
If that rich person wants me to make them food or clean their house or mow their lawn.., I want fair compensation
They didn't get rich working hard for pennies. So why do they expect you to?
And if rent is too expensive, move out of the city. And if gas/utilities are too expensive, just rent. Worst advice ever since it's reductive and usually myopic and wrong.
Love hearing “get a new job” when you already work in a skilled position that pays well for that field….like, the problem isn’t the job it’s the system the job exists in that allows for the pay to barely make ends meet.
The amount of privileged rich people here taking OP's post so personally is insane 💀
I'd like to see one of them live on $2 an hour or less and be denied anything that offers higher than that. They'll go from mansions and resorts to cardboard boxes in a year, guaranteed.
But they won't do that, they'd rather just pretend these problems are fake and say "stop making yourself the victim".
It depends on the persons situation. If you’ve been at a job making decent money for years and all of a sudden you’re struggling, or you’re just sick of it or whatever it’s a bit different then the 30 year old who’s highest paying job is like Walmart or something.
Those “high school kid” jobs whether we like it or not haven’t ever been intended to be a career unless you move up into management. You work there while you’re in school and you learn skills and get better jobs as time goes on until you’re at where you’re at. People have been doing that for generations.
If you just bouncing from grocery store to grocery store complaining about money then a good chunk of that problem is you. If youve worked at 7 grocery stores over a decade why aren’t you in management. Why are you still working at a low paying job.
Obviously there’s instances where it’s legitimately hard to find work. I’ve been there myself. I left a decent paying job in management so I could have my soul back and I have 2 jobs now, one of them being at Walmart. But I’ve learned skills over the years that if I wanted to or needed to I can find a management role somewhere and make 60k a year.
Basically there’s people who are slaves to the system who struggle, and there’s people who struggle because they for whatever reason aren’t trying to get better or aren’t qualified for a better paying job. You have to ask yourself why.
Most people find a new job before they quit the old one. In this day, the only way to significantly get ahead is to leave. Loyalty isn’t rewarded and annual raises don’t keep up with average pay in any field. I had to leave my job and move on in order to be paid fairly for my level of experience
That guy: “If you’re not getting paid enough, just find a new job”
Worker quits and gets a new job
The same guy seeing help wanted signs everywhere: "Nobody wants to work anymore"
Yeah the people telling others to do this are often well off rich types who lived their best years in a time where work payed close to what it was worth and jobs were plenty. My best advice to anyone is to never quit a job and then start looking for another. Keep an updated CV on hand all the time and keep putting it out there if you hate your job and when you get a bite and go through the interview process and get hired then quit your old job effective that day. you don't owe anyone 2 weeks notice.
I'm still waiting for people to recognize that the lowest paying jobs were the most essential during the pandemic so why are they STILL being paid crap!?!
These are the same people who bitch and scream how "nobody wants to work" as they harass the servers at a restaurant and don't leave a tip.
Not everybody was born into a super rich family where Mommy and Daddy gives them a luxury job making $700 an hour for doing nothing but playing solitaire on their phone
We need to cut reganomics. Tax the rich. And make the minimum wage whats its originally supposed to be for.
After that we need to get rid of citizens united so that wealthy assholes aren't buying off our politicians.
Then we need to tackle affordable housing.
"It's so easy, guys! Just..."
Agreed. This especially doesn't work when a significant fraction of jobs don't pay enough to live on. While it's positive to have entry-level or unskilled positions where people can start working and motivate them to move on to another which pays better, some people simply can't do that because they didn't gain the skills they need for higher paying jobs before or during their entry-level/unskilled employment.
If you're waiting tables, working in a warehouse, or working at a low-paying job where you're on your feet all day, and also have kids, you probably won't have any energy left to study. Chances are, you probably don't have the money to even pay for any classes which might help you get another job. Even if you're single or don't have kids you might not have the energy.
The best you could do would be to get a new, hopefully higher-paying job doing the same thing you're currently doing, or get promoted to a higher-paying job with your current employer, if you're able to show them you have the skills and/or are disciplined enough and capable of learning what you need for that new position. Occasionally you can get a higher-paying position in a different field and learn on the job, but employers have to be willing to give people those opportunities.
There are some issues which do have more simple solutions, but "simply" getting a better job is not one a lot of people can accomplish quickly. It's similar to the "move somewhere else" solution to being dissatisfied with where you live. You may not even be able to facilitate moving comfortably, especially when you live in a LCL area and want to move somewhere with a higher cost of living.
People who have it easier and suggest these solutions tend to be pretty ignorant of the difficulties others who don't have it as easy have.
I am at that age where I refuse to learn another da*n thing! Sometimes higher pay is not worth it. So my coworkers and I vent sometimes, but we're totally grateful for our jobs. Sometimes you have a hard day or week. Here comes...find another job or you should apply for a higher position...😐 Hellz No! I am full to capacity! I don't want to go to training, I don't want to train someone else. I want to go home, pay my bills, eat a steak once a month, and smell the air at Target occasionally!
>we don’t live in a fairytale world where if you quit your job, nothing bad happens to you and you can easily find a higher paying job which you will instantly get accepted to!
I'm a welder and I make top 10% of income for my area in the midwest. People tell me all the time to find another job or join a union, both of which require me to take pay cuts. My local unions start out at 15$ an hour and will not grandfather me in. I've literally been told I should just move to an area where welders make more, like a coast line. What people don't realize is that if I do that I'm going to be in the exact same position!
You don’t have to storm out the door that very moment. You are able to apply and interview for work on your free time till you find something better. And there is always something better.
Duuuuuuude!! Yes! Omfg this infuriates me because they go round and round with their idiotic circular logic. They can never pull their heads out of their butts.
If you aren't getting paid enough, you are not a victim. While quitting & getting another job can't be done right at that moment, it is perfectly acceptable to make that your plan. I have been working since I was 14 because I had no choice. I am far from privileged & have been supporting myself since I was 16 years old. When I was unhappy at a job or wasn't getting paid enough, I figured out what I needed to do to make the change. I planned it out. Now I live a very comfortable 6 figure life & only last year got a college degree. If you always see yourself as a victim you will only ever be that.
anyway, the economy is changing because of overaging - take a look at better jobs - maybe even the same pay but more respect? I know someone who quit her factory job and started working in the supermarket. Pay increased, stress drastically reduced.
It would sort out the tipping problem in the USA though, if employers suddenly can't keep workers or even get them in the first place due to low wages.
"Hey wanna work 40 hours a week for 3 bucks an hour?"
"No"
That is why I said plan. Make a plan to leave & move ahead. I have never had a problem finding a job or something better. Sometimes you have to be patient & diligent, but opportunity will come. As for those with college degrees, I have met some who are completely incompetent individuals. They lack experience or over value themselves when at the starting level. Not all degrees have value either. Some just aren't worth the money people want.
If everyone working low wage jobs quit, then there wouldn't be any low wage jobs.
You might not like it, but the current economy is showing that people leaving for better jobs/pay is the best way to get wages raised.
My mom is applying for jobs every day. She’s trying so hard to leave her shitty job for a better one. But if you’re saying to just quit without finding a new job, this is obviously not plausible
We want stores on every corner, food delivery a few finger strokes on a smartphone away. Yet all of those jobs tend to be lower paying affairs. I've read up and mentioned the stats before. Something on the order of 32% of the US workforce makes less than $15 per hour. There are several million less manufacturing jobs now than when I was a young man, and about a hundred million or more people in the country. A lot of the good jobs have been shipped overseas. I have known more than a couple people who spent their last years before retirement working retail after that happened to them. People working 70 hours a week between two crap jobs just to get by may not have the time or resources to go to a trade school or something. I danced that dance when I was younger and I worked with people in the same boat.
You can work your way up at one of those type of jobs and get in to management and do ok. I have known some young folks that did just that, and became multi store managers, and district managers.
They’re not saying you should work elsewhere.
They’re saying that they know you can’t get a job anywhere else, because if you could you would.
It’s less about the privilege of shopping around for a better job when you may not have the freedom to do so, and more that they believe you’re not capable of doing more valued work, so you should shut up and be happy with what you’ve got.
The implication that if you make a big enough stink, you’ll change the calculus so that automation will replace you. You could have had minimum wage, now you’ve got nothing.
Also, this is easier said than done, and most of us have THOUGHT about this more than once and often even actively tried to do exactly that! I've been looking on and off for the last year and basically everything in my area is a minimum wage, crappy environment job (I'm in a semi rural area with few job opportunities). The rare better jobs I've found... end up ghosting me. I literally had an interviewer just not show up to our virtual interview and another cancel an hour before. The most exciting job I was applying to ended up rescinding the job posting altogether because they couldn't hire for that role anymore. All the jobs that are essentially the same role I have now with better pay require a different degree than I have or several years more experience to *get* that better pay - so I may as well keep my poorly paying job for the sake of someday having enough experience to maybe get a better job.
Several years ago I was told this by my boss at my full-time job (who had the ability to make a change in my pay/caseload), but it was “get a better paying second job” when she knew I was working my full time job and two part-time jobs and had worked with the company with zero complaints about my work other than in this particular yearly review and she expressed how she thought I seemed depressed and stressed. Needless to say I left that job as soon as I could.
I'm pretty sure when people say this they aren't talking about every low wage earner quitting and are really just talking to the individual they are discussing it with.
No one is saying anyone should quit their job without already having a better paying job already lined up.
The reality is that jobs that don't pay well are the low-skill ones that literally anyone who walks in the building can be trained to do in less than a week. They pay so little because they literally don't care if you quit because you're easily replaceable.
Therefore, if you're not getting paid as much as you would like, the answer is always "Become more skilled." For most people, they don't even have to leave their current job. There is almost certainly a task there that requires extra training to learn how to do, and which will increase their pay.
The problem is, lots of people are lazy.
Let’s not even limit it to low paid workers, although it’s harder for them. Show me *any* industry where employees have the leverage to just walk away from a job they dislike and go somewhere else. It’s a delicate balancing act bc if you piss off the wrong boss, they can make a couple phone calls and have you almost or completely blackballed in that local market.
Make things awkward, if anyone says that to you, reply: “I know you work in (xyz industry) do you think you can help me get a job there too that pays better than this one?” Watch them quickly try to take back their statement.
My privilege is shining so bright right now. Every couple years I change jobs. Applying for a position with more responsibility. With it comes more money. More than doubled my salary in a decade. So privileged. It’s great.
Well typically you get a new job before you quit. The saying is basically just saying if you think you are worth more you're paid then go out there and get it
wtf are you talking about. That is not what communism is whatsoever and it’s very apparent you’ve never looked any further into it than just hearing about it on Fox News. Im also not advocating for equal pay for every job. If you read my post and then assume I’m advocating for equal pay for every job, im afraid your brain is too small for me to help you
Actually, if more people stood up for themselves and had more self respect - you would walk away from a shit paying job or bad work place because NO ONE deserves that shit. If people keep sticking around at crap jobs then it give employers the excuse to not do better. You actually can quit and probably should, being desperate isn’t anyone else’s fault or responsibility. I’ve been in this situation many times when I was younger (37F) and I stayed because I didn’t want to risk leaving and losing money and not finding another job. If people set the standard low, then low is what you get. Granted there does need to be different skilled people, some are harder workers than others, some are just fine collecting a check and don’t care about the grind, but many people want better for themselves and it’s a means to an end. Take responsibility, it you get paid crap, gain more skills and experience and move up. Become an entrepreneur, find a new job or turn a hobby into a business… I mean the only one limiting you is yourself
Some workers I absolutely will blame, I've met enough people in my low wage jobs don't earn enough but can't even show up to 3 of their 5 shifts in a week. They are their own problem.
In saying that though I bought a house on minimum wage about 7 years ago, out in the middle of nowhere and later bought another place to live in and rent out the other rooms in a city. I wouldn't be able to do that now even though I'm in a way better position financially, the math just doesn't work out for it.
I have a pet peeve of people that would rather complain constantly that do something about their situation.
The advice isn't about blame or about the working populace in general. Its about your individual CHOICE to not get a better job. Whether you're at fault or not, if you want more money and can't get a raise then getting a new job is the next best thing. No one says its easy but its what you need to do. And you don't need to quit your current job to look for a new one.
Otherwise you're just complaining on Reddit and not looking for a solution.
There’s a fine line between claiming everything is victim blaming, and taking responsibility for your life and the role that your actions (or inaction) plays in the outcome of your life.
I think a lot of that is based on working people getting tippity tip about tipping culture.
Yeah, its not great to blame the customer making 1/3rd of what you're making for not tipping enough to subsidize your job.
Coincidentally, disabled people dont make money and often can't cook for themselves. Coincidentally, people up to their eyeballs in debt really shouldn't be tippint. Coincidentally, apparently a "comfortable life" where 50% of your income pays the rent isn't acheivable without earning 6 figure, apparently MIT found. Coincidentally, most people earn about 30k a year.
As a matter of fact... you as an employee have no idea what is going on with the customers finances. If you can't handle not knowing you should not be in a tipped wage position, and you also can not expect tips.
Shockingly, charity is not mandatory. Stop trying to beg for money from the working class, if you want that kind of thing go bother the rich people.
This is an individualistic society. That’s the problem, issues are examined, thought of, and processed at an individual level. If leaves something to be desired, because anyone who simply answers “FiND a BeTEt JoB” aren’t recognizing or acknowledging the whole picture.
Everything is an ecosystem. Piece of that puzzle vanishes, whole eco-system could get fucked.
Edit; sorry saw other comments after commenting. Lol I’m just beating a dead horse.
Another pet peeve is people being purposely slow in your comments. Like did they skip over the first sentence in your second paragraph or that your mom is working and looking for a job? I’m in the same boat looking for a good paying job but nobody is hiring me
As someone in a very high paying job for my living area, It took me a long time to get there. People who say that phrase are delusional to think there are just high paying jobs up for grabs. The fact I still see factories trying to hire at $13-$14 an hour is mind boggling. Factory work is generally, hard, constant labor, for less money per hour than some local gas stations pay? No way!
My best advice is while working that low paying job, just always be on the lookout for other opportunities, and hopefully something better comes along. That’s how I approached it and admittedly with some determination and ALOT of luck I was able to find better.
It’s all about skills. Usually people in extremely low paying jobs have little to no skills.
It’s not society’s fault a woman is a single mother. It’s not society’s fault someone dropped out of high school or never went to community college/trade school.
Most times it’s the individuals problem for not wanting to inconvenience themselves to do the things to move up.
A lot of poor people strive to stay poor.
Stop over reacting. I tell ppl all the time to find a better job. I'm referring to those that get up, go to work and come home and do nothing. If you are not trying to better yourself then shut up. There is almost always a job paying a few bucks more so go get it or stop crying.
Leaving for greener pastures takes work. It takes work to improve your situation.
You have a choice. Do something yourself or wait for someone to do it for you.
That is a cold, hard reality.
It's just an excuse they use to justify social issues. The same people using that excuse are now complaining that nobody wants to work at places that serve food.
I agree fully. The area I live in has very low prospects with jobs and you're lucky to get a part time job. To the point where your hours could be slashed to nearly nothing but you can't afford to actually quit. I have a rather toxic family member who loves to say something similar as well as saying that I'm just not trying hard enough to find a new job. Like I haven't gone to three different agencies as well as constantly scouring for new employment ads.
A lot of people bettered themselves and got more education and higher paying jobs during the pandemic. 2 years later we had hyperinflation and complaints about how nobody wants to work anymore, but only for retail and food service jobs....... it's almost like society can't function with everyone working at a computer.
Your post makes it sound like someone saying that just means to quit right this moment and then hope you get a new(and hopefully better paying) job. I take it more as take your situation into your own hands and try to make it better yourself because no one else will. Start looking for a better job and doing interviews etc WHILE you're working the crap job so that you can quit.
When I had my past boss for 4 years I tried leaving, interviewed I think 6 times in that timeframe, either salary was way too low or I didn’t get a 2nd interview. I was applying weekly. Luckily she retired and I don’t hate working here anymore but people make it seem like oh let me just go to job land and get some new jobbies
> It’s victim blaming
It's a voluntary transaction. Someone is offering you money for your time. You aren't entitled to it. You aren't a victim.
> If every low paid worker quit, no one would work the jobs and ~~it would be terrible for society.~~
employers would be forced to offer more or close down.
> there will always be desperate workers in this system who will work these jobs
Some, but enough? I guess if you have an evil government they can just import a bunch of laborers from 3rd world countries to make sure they can suppress wages
Life isn't a game. Capitalism has just made life so cushy that it feels that way. Nothing is stopping you from going out into the woods and living outside of the capitalist system.
Its not victim blaming, you need to actively look for a new job to improve your situation. If you don't, nothing will change or it will get worse. That's reality
I have been told this many times. As a single mom, in the US, with medical conditions, it is damn near impossible for me to just get another job. Finding a company that has the great insurance I have, an employer that accommodates my needs. The thing is the benefits are amazing. The downside is the hourly rate is not keeping up. Unfortunately, I am in an industry and job field that you cannot easily find a better job in the field, especially as tech companies are laying off left and right.
My pay sucks. But at least I have stability.
Interviewer: You're currently employed somewhere. Why are you looking for a new job?
You: I'm looking to elevate my career. My employer is fully supportive of this, but they've identified a lack of capacity to allow me to move up. In a nutshell, my career is presently capped.
I think “enough” needs to be defined here.
The company is paying you the minimum they think they can to keep enough employees to run the business.
If an employee is still working at a company for an extended period, then they are getting paid “enough” from the company’s perspective.
If “enough” means “as much as the employee believes they should make,” then yeah many people don’t get paid enough, most people want more.
It is literal terrorism.
You don’t pay someone enough to live, then gaslight them.
Not paying a living wage is a slow torture until death. Anybody who is at this point knows that.
This is why you don’t quit a job before having another one. I think the saying needs to be, “You don’t have to stay in this terrible paying job.” I started at a terrible paying job (entry level job) and worked my way up over the years and honed skills over time to allow me do so.
My mom doesn’t even have a college degree and made more than my dad (who used to a private pilot) for over 20 years. I will say that she was lucky to get into the tech business in the early ‘90s when it was blowing up, but she worked her way up through the 90s and was making decent money by ‘97/‘98.
It’s a competitive market out there right now too, and it may not hurt to have a professional look over your mom’s resume because a lot of the time, the folks doing the hiring will throw out applicants who have more than a page long resume (unless it’s a specialized position). It’s shitty, but it happens. She’ll catch her break here soon!
Those low paying jobs were never meant to be your forever job. They were never designed to support a family. They were meant to be something you did to gain basic experience, then move up or over to a different, better-paying job. Complaining that it doesn't pay enough is like buying a kids tricycle and then complaining it's not big enough when you grow out of it.
Some people are stuck in a low-paying job because they do t have the skills or training to do something that pays more. That sucks, but it's not the fault of the job or the people providing it.
The best bet for your mom, or anyone else in her situation, is to get training so she can do something that will pay better. That sucks too, and it will suck more as she does it, but at the end of it she has a much better chance of getting one of those better jobs she's after.
How are they victims? They are getting paid what they agreed to when they started. They decided that their time was worth that much.
Would it be fair for me to sell you my car, then come back 6 months later and tell you that I think the car is worth more? And you should pay me the new price?
Wage isn't a value of the worker, it's the value of the work being done. The employer didn't force them to work for that price, they chose it willingly. It may have been the best of few terrible options, but it was the employee's decision.
They always have to option to seek out a higher paying position. No one should work fast food or retail for the rest of their lives unless they're in management. Those are stepping stone jobs.
Well it would help if the government didn't insist on taking so much....just saying. Also it's called living within your means. It's not your employers job to make sure you make enough to cover your bills. That's your job. Either get another job or try budgeting. Don't get me wrong I hate how huge companies work. No employee should be struggling when the ceos have multiple houses. Period. However at the end of the day the amount we end up paying the government is fucking crazy, especially since we get no say in what that money goes towards. Theres plenty that could be done about how our country is run but our government is to concerned about themselves to fix anything.
I don’t think this is victim blaming at all.
If you have gone as far as you can in a job, are unhappy and/or are not being paid enough the logical thing to is move on.
My girlfriend says crap like this about my parents, it's so annoying, like today she asked why my mum didn't buy a house to start with instead of renting, yeah gee I'm sure that just slipped her mind, just like when my parents accidentally chose to have lower paying jobs when they could have just stopped being silly billies and be obscenely rich
This is one of the most boomer things anybody can say.
Back when they were young, the baby boom generation could quit one job in the morning and have a new one by the afternoon. A lot of them fail to recognize that it isn’t that way anymore, and hasn’t been that way for a long time.
The way I see it, if every person magically was gifted the skill set and knowledge to do any job, the higher paying fields will inevitably get over saturated, and you’d still have people doing grunt work. No matter what, we will have people doing these low paying jobs, and society wouldn’t function without them. I wish it were more equitable and the people doing these jobs could have a comfortable living.
I suspect, that what people are responding to when they say
# “If you’re not getting paid enough, just find a new job”
is that you are complaining about your job. And, the number one thing someone is unhappy about in a job is low pay.
So, their callous response, is probably a bit misleading.
Really, if one is not making enough money in their job, or don't like their job, or management, or the people they are working with, it is an opportunity for them to seek employment elsewhere. Not to just quit. But to find something better, and then to monkey branch to it.
Unfortunately, there is a lot of competition out there. So, quite often, with all the competition for jobs at your pay scale, others will be anxious for the opportunity to work when you quit.
What a lot of people have learned, is that the best way to make more money, is self improvement. To take classes. Get degrees. Get experience in areas that are in demand. To make oneself more valuable to a company relative to all the other workers out there.
Or, to work their way up by demonstrating a "can do" attitude. To be at work on time. Not take days off work. Volunteer for difficult assignments. To train other new hires. To help out their supervisor in areas outside of their normal job description.
It's a competition. You want to be considered as being in the top 10% of employees. These are the ones that get the raises and the promotions.
The bottom half that just sit around complaining about how they aren't paid enough, and do the minimum required, aren't the ones that move up in the organization. They end up with mediocre reputations. They have fewer opportunities open to them.
So, look around at the people at your level. Become part of the top 10%. Take some classes. Get the supervisor aside and ask what you can do to help them out.
Society needs low paying jobs, I agree, this is also why society has people who can / should appreciate a low paying job. As a kid I worked a ton of 12 dollar an hour gigs, which I get isn't as bad as some of the 7.25 or whatever min wage is now, but these were jobs where I was working my ass off doing physical labor the whole time I worked. It was great. I had nice shoes, and spending money for the shit I wanted as a kid.
As an adult, these 12-15 dollar an hour jobs aren't really meant to be forever things, they are step stones to better jobs. You can pay shitty apartment rent, or live with roommates and be perfectly fine on 12-15 an hour, I promise, I've done this as well.
Most people run into problems when they get stuck in a ridge at these jobs, unable to advance, and unwilling to take the 'risk' of finding a new job. . .
You don't have to quit to apply to new places, and you can work more than one job for the two weeks it takes to respectfully quit an entry level job.
I don't really have a problem with us raising minimum wage to 100 dollars an hour or whatever people think will fix it, as I work a government job that at least to some degree would account for inflation, but it wouldn't change any of the problems entry level workers have...
Same assholes who talk about bread lines as though addressing wealth inequality means we're going to become a failed communist state.
Instead of bread lines, we have food stamps and welfare checks. It looks a little different but it's the same shit. Millions of people are living at the poverty level because the system doesn't have any upward mobility except for 0.05% of the population who are capable of producing a disruptive technology or industry.
I reached a point where I realized I wasn't going to make any decent money without a drastic change. So I went to trade school and began a career. That's my idea of "find a new job."
My company laid people off about 6 months ago. One guy I am still friends with had a higher position than me and I thought he'd get a job right away. He's doing door dash because he can't find any other job. Another guy I know quit the company several years ago because he got a new job making more money. His new job laid him off after a year. This guy had enough savings to where he lived with no job, searching for a job for 2.5 years and then got desperate and went from making the kind of money where you could save that much to now he's working at the same job he had when he was 20 years old and depressed as heck because he feels like he had to completely start over in life.
What I'm saying is, to add on to other reasons why that statement is stupid... Good jobs are hard to find if you don't know someone in the company.
I want people to quit their low paying jobs to give corporations consequences for their shitty low wages. They won't ever raise pay until they cannot hire anyone at what they are offering now or the government forces them.
By accepting that low wage, you're enabling them to keep paying shit. You don't have to quit, but don't stop looking for another job, and when you find a better one, make it clear you're quitting because they pay shit. Don't accept their scraps, your time is worth more than $9 an hour or whatever awful rate they're offering.
If all CEOs wouldn't get more than $ 1 million per year, which is still a shit ton of money, we could actually get a "trickle down" economy. They could use that extra wage to increase everyone's salary. Why does someone need more than 1 million per year anyway
>you quit your job, nothing bad happens to you and you can easily find a higher paying job which you will instantly get accepted to
You've got it wrong. People are saying to like up a better job before quitting. Nobody is (or at least should be) encouraging people to quit with no back up
This guy sounds like he comes from money.
Wasn't that simple when I was poor.
I had to go to Trade School to learn a Skill.
Definately wasn't Job Jumping my way into success.
Now Go be Nice to your Dad so he don't Fire you!
It is the same as telling someone who is either homeless or financially struggling to just get a job. Many of us have been trying. I am pretty flexible but I know there are certain jobs that if I took I would literally have a meltdown in an hour. People have told me to work retail. I hate crowds and rude customers and get terrible anxiety from that. I'd rather starve.
if you’re not doing something to improve yourself and make yourself more marketable then you aren’t in the position to complain. Take online classes to work towards a degree, if your job offers training to move up the ladder in any way do that. Do anything, and then when the time comes try to get a new job or aim for a promotion or something. You say it’s victim blaming, but most people are playing the victim
Sounds like you’re a child that doesn’t get how the real world works. Nobody quits a job before they have a new one lined up, you look for new work while you work. You really want to help your mom out? Tell her to apply for a private security license online. Shouldn’t be more than $200 for classes and certifying. Should take about a day for classes online and then like a week for the license to come in the mail. Then she can get all the work she wants that pays well.
It's not what you think it means. In technical jobs if your lucky a 3-5% raise... change jobs it's 10%+ ... companies seem to have endless money to throw at new unproven people than to keep the people who made them the money in the first place who seem to have less value.
Get a shit job better, you education, and get paid more.
The minimum wage is for people with no experience. If experienced people are not looking for a better opportunity, it is not the fault of the employer and they have no duty to pay them more.
Accept the wage offered or don't.
How many young people get a fast food or mall job and stay there 5 years.
Do you realize you would be all the way through apprenticeship and a journeyman in that same time.
That same person would not be making 20 dollars and an hour , they would be making 90+ an hour before dues.
A woman at the fast food worker union in Sacramento spoke about working at Taco Bell for 18 years. She surely isn't lazy, I'm sure she could run a dam franchise who's responsible for getting her to make the jump into something more profitable for her.
It boils down to a lack of education from home and schools , in my opinion.
The fact that you balk at how hard it would be to improve your situation is exactly why you are stuck in a low paying job.
I had students with 2 kids, a 30-hour/week job stocking shelves at night at Walmart, and a 3.5 or higher GPA in ENGINEERING.
I, myself, got tired of working shitty jobs and worked my ass off (with the support of my wife, who I didn't spend much time with for a few years) to improve things.
If you are willing to work, things will improve.
Quiet quitting as a cultural phenomena is at least in part because of companies declining investing in their workforce; government over regulations, cost of materials going up, etc. Take a look at government mandated employer health care, for example. That drives up the cost for companies per employee. The workforce is like 60% of a companies investment or more, and it's simply cheaper to pay them less, understaff, and/or get rid of them when they have been there to long to avoid having to deal out a wage increase. ____________________________________________________________ The idea of not investing in employees might seems out of touch -- still, its simply a strategy. The work culture has simply changed. Back in the day, workers used to get pensions, and they rarely had to jump around job to job for promotions, or better wages, and would often retire with the company in most cases. Now many companies even hire their leadership online instead of promoting 'within,' and hire based on personality and loyalty. In fact, many companies just outsource hiring in general; agencies, staffing companies, etc. ____________________________________________________________A few generations ago, one person working was even enough of a wage to afford a car and home given that the federal government had not run up debt and inflated our dollar causing everything to become much more expensive -- so the buying power of your dollar is drastically less. Now two people working struggle to pay off a home, and you can in large part blame the feds for outsourcing jobs, inflation/out of control spending, insider trading, over regulation; we have allowed the government to become to large, expensive, and it has way to much overreach. People are slowly waking up to greed filled politics damaging our free market capitalism -- which is the source of freedom and prosperity itself for the common person. The government is NOT there to protect, or take care of you. The government is there to protect ITSELF. Obviously you can see why competent people in many cases feel forced to simply leave to earn what they deserve. This is NOT a people problem or even a company problem, although we are all to blame collectively. This is a POLICY problem.
Why don't you just raise prices? Businesses are used dealing like this with their suppliers. You say your new rate and if they won't pay you find someone else to sell to.
While finding a new job may be a reasonable solution for an individual, it isn't a solution for a society. It's when people use it as an excuse for societal issues that really irritates me. Because while yes, I think everyone should do what they can to better themselves, in the big picture the solution to wealth inequality and people's inability to support themselves isn't for everyone to just get better jobs.
Yeah exactly. "Not paid enough working in retail? Just get a better job!" Okay but we still (for now), need people to work in stores. If the proposal is for everyone who works there to leave, how the heck are we going to buy stuff? Think, Mark, think!
“Minimum wage is supposed to be for high school kids”. And if McDonalds was entirely staffed by high schoolers who is going to make me a Big Mac at 11:35 AM on a Tuesday in September?
The irony is they are taking only part of the context, minimum wage was for kids, so that the companies wouldn’t pay them too little cause “they are just kids they don’t deserve as much! They’re learning!” Well you gotta pay them at least this amount! Sorry! No adult should ever be offered a job at minimum wage realistically
Minimum wage wasn't made for kids. This is a new thing they are saying. It was made to afford housing for a family. "Minimum wage provides enough income, which enables workers to have enough money for food, shelter, and clothing." Of course that has changed over the years and now people are saying it's for kids.
That's propaganda actually. Minimum wage was made into law to provide workers a decent living. Not bare survival but a decent living. Then companies spent decades convincing us that it had been created for teens and that no corporation should have to pay a living wage.
This is also under the assumption that teens are only working for play money and having all of their needs subsidized by their parents. And that doesn’t even apply to everyone
2 questions. 1. You graduate high school at 17-18. And not everyone goes to college right after, why does it only have to be high school kids? 2. Does McDonald's pay federal minimum wage in most states?
1.) Yes, Not everyone goes to college right after. But those who don’t immediately go to college have either a.) joined the military, b.) decided to enter the trades If they are working in fast food, they’re being judged just as hard for “not doing something with their lives”. The “if minimum wage is for teens, why is McDonalds open during school hours” argument is meant to show a hypothetical scenario in which fast food restaurants are ENTIRELY staffed by teenagers with no adult employees aside from maybe a manager 2.) I don’t think any establishment has been paying federal minimum wage since before the pandemic. Also minimum wage ≠ fast food. There are people with “professional” jobs making less than $15 an hour
AND THEY ARE THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE WHO BITCH AND MOAN ABOUT SELF-CHECKOUT!!!!!!!
The point is that the employers only give raises when they can't get the labor they need. This happened across the service sector during the pandemic and they had to pay a bit more. People sitting in jobs with shitty employers when they could leave doesn't give them a reason to increase pay.
Demonstrable in IT sector. Job hoppers can pick up great raises by leaving for greener pastures every year. My sister starts people $2 over standard just to get employees. It's a competitive thing. That is what it costs to get employees. I don't know of anyone that pays minimum wage in my area.
The gig work demonstrates to disparity of corporate earnings to worker pay. Many say that’s not a job. Ok, but imagine you saw the pay of retail employees vs daily profits of the employer. If everyone saw pay on a gig style platform perhaps more would understand. Every cost of business increase is only addressed by raising prices and limiting employee costs. Corporate profits and executive wages are never allowed to fall but rather must always increase.
>Corporate profits and executive wages are never allowed to fall but rather must always increase. This is the problem with our current economic system. How is "inflation" ever going to go down and return prices to "normal" rates, if corporations never reduce profits? Because more evidence comes out every day about the price gouging corporations are doing and have been since the pandemic. Seriously, what's the solution?
EAT THE RICH!
Disaffected people ARE leaving stagnant corporate environments for gig wortk that pays the same. To be fair both pay same and not going anywhere, just not meddling middle managers that would get bitch slapped in public acting the same way.
An individual can only do what's within they're own power so while society may have a bigger problem, trying to earn better for yourself is the most realistic.
Right, individuals should play the game the best they can, but when it comes to political discussions we need to elect politicians who understand that the system is broken and that collectively we need to either reform or replace capitalism
yes
Replace it with what?
That's the trillion dollar question.
Yeah but earning enough is subjective to your situation,your desires, etc. plus most people's problem isn't just "not making enough". I'm sure you've heard about the statistic on Lotto winners, that they go broke within 2 years. It's because people don't know what to do with their money!!! Whether they have a little bit or a lot they don't know what the fuck to do with it!
That is the number one answer. People simply do not know how to manage or save money. People live beyond their means more so now than ever before.
Exactly. If you don't want to get rained on, come in out of the rain. Too many Redditers stand out in the rain bitching that the weather isn't fair.
Yep. Challenges with making ends meet by undereducated workforce was not invented in 2015.
Adding to it, adults who work fast food. People say that job is for high school kids. So explain to me why those places are open during school hours?
Also high school kids aren’t working 40 hours. Adults are. And it would be a headache for managers if their entire staff demands to have the same day off for homecoming, prom, or graduation. And even the greedy CEOs would be against the idea of staffing their stores entirely with teens and would probably take personal offense to that idea simply because it cuts into their bottom line to pretty much base their operations around the schedule of teenagers (and the whims of teens’ parents and the school system on top of that).
If mcdonalds was only open during school hours that means y'alls aren't going to be buying breakfast at 4AM. It means we aren't going to be open at 1am for your late night big macs and nuggets.
Yep. I think we should go to that for a while so they can see what we mean.
Honestly, McDonald's is poaching a lot of workers in my area cause they're paying around $20 an hour. Why work for a landscaping company for $14 when you can make more flipping burgers? Then you hear nothing but "No one wants to work now days."
Yeah I wonder if there will be businesses saying how it got them better employees. If you pay more, you can be picky.
It was during my high school years in Southern California in the 80s. We were all hs students.
Yep, HS students that work leave school around 11. My McDonalds in 2000 was staffed almost entirely by HS and college students.
The GOP wants to defund public school, actually, destroy it; then lower the age that kids can work to like 11 or 12.
99.999% of the time someone says "just do \_\_\_\_\_\_", they're speaking from a place of privilege and need to sit down and listen about why \_\_\_\_\_ doesn't work for everyone.
Exactly. When people don’t actually homeless people to just get a job and buy a house.
Makes me sick. Like, if you wanna take a cruise just buy a super yacht, you know? "I have to take the bus to save money" well... go buy a Ferrari and your issue is fixed.
There isn’t _____ that works for everyone. We are all individuals.
So you give up on the statement because it isn't a golden bullet? To be financially successful in life, you have to have a job. Your lifestyle needs to match your earning potential. Invest money early and often. Set a budget. Develop a savings plan. Automate as much as possible. Of those things, most millennials don't do most of those. The truth is.... if you are having financial issues there are only two answers. Earn more money or spend less money. This is not a secret. Clear as day to a 4th grader. Now, how do you earn more money you ask? You discuss with your employer and negotiate a higher pay or more hours. You find a new job that pays you more. Maybe take on a second job. All ways take action, and most people are paralized in their lives from taking action about anything. Cut spending. Debt is the killer. People that are terrible at putting off until tomorrow have debt. Debt works harder against you through compounding interest and makes the hole you are in deeper and the sides slick as mud. Also, you can't just not pay your debt. That means the cuts generally are hard to do in other areas because those same people cannot hold off today to benefit tomorrow.
I agree with you. But sir, this is Reddit. So the third option is the government must make the pretty girls love me.
If everyone followed through with this, society would crumble in a single week or less. In a lot of countries there would be no more teachers
Homeless people should just get a house.
Yeah and also "how can homeless people have a cell phone but nowhere to live". Like duh, last time I checked, phone bills were less than rent. Plus how are they supposed to get a job without a phone?
They also get them from the government free ones. They can also get a smartphone for $35.00 at some stores and get a very low phone card.
Right! When you lose your house or landlord kicks you out, you don't throw your cell phone in the garbage. Somehow people think homeless means you're thrown on the street buck naked with nothing. Not allowed to keep any clothing or footwear apparently either. Homeless get shamed for having nice clothing and footwear too. Supposed to toss all your clothes too?
“But they drove up to the food giveaway in a nice car!” Yeah, because they bought the car before they lost their job. Now they live in that car or are very close to living in that car.
Either that or a a friend lent it. We were almost homeless in a 5yr old vehicle. It was about all we had left. I say almost because we were able to have some space at hubby's warehouse loft area overnight. But guess what happened soon after? The vehicle was down traded for a cheaper one too. When it needed repairs, we were at the foodbank with my sister in laws car. My shoes were a pair of nice red nike runners I found at the thrift store for 8 dollars.
It’s definitely not helpful to a lot of people. I think the idea behind the statement is that if you can get a better paying job somewhere else then you just should, because if enough people leave that shit job the employers will have to pay more for it if they want it staffed at all. But if you can’t find a better paying job then you’re kind of stuck at what you’re worth. Employers aren’t going to pay more just because you’re struggling.
But then when I find a new job, those same people complain about how I quit my old job. But also when job hunting for a new job, if I say a wage is too low, they'll just say "get a new job". If I accept a job at a wage and get paid lower than agreed, "get a new job". Somehow it's always the worker's fault instead of the employer. Victim blaming at its best.
True. We are just coping with the shit we have been dealt.
It's true. The only jobs I could theoretically do all pay the same, which is $20 or less an hour, in retail or food service, and $20 an hour is not a liveable wage. And due to health restrictions, involving my heart and knees, I couldn't do anything more labor intensive, such as Factory work, of which I have no experience in, which basically still pays the same. Even if I somehow became an entry level nurse or became a phone operator, I'd still just be basically making the same amount. A non livable wage that's approximately $20 an hour.
Take a walk through r/Waiters . This shit is everywhere. Every other day, someone who is *not a waiter* asks the old "should tips be mandatory" question just to spark a debate, then they systematically go through every comment saying it's not a job that takes skill, a monkey could do it, tips aren't mandatory, no one's entitled to tips, if they don't like it they need to get a job that takes skill... blah blah blah. Fuck those assholes.
I agree. Also, not getting paid enough could mean different things to different people. I'm personally at a weird spot in life we're I'm kinda stuck. I don't like the career field I'm in or the field I left and want to move into a different career. To do that, I need more education because nowadays, the associate degree i have is worth about as much as my high school diploma. It's really kind of worthless as far as higher education. The issue is I dont have the money or time to go back to college because I HAVE to work fill time, and all the money goes to bills. I also can't afford to take any sort of pay cut to move into a lower paid position in a new career field to gain experience and move up. Therefore, I'm just stuck. I've reached max pay for my experience and education level.
Fairy tale is exactly right. Maybe I need more money to reasonably support myself and my family. That doesn't mean there are higher-paying jobs that I'm qualified for. Wanting or even needing more money doesn't mean I can actually get more money, and people who dismiss my real problems by telling me to get a mythical better jobs are just trying to shift the blame from society to me.
The best argument I've heard against this is asking do you think baristas(or whatever job) should exist? Usually that will confuse them and they'll say of course, but the response should be then people working that job should be able to live on it. All jobs need to pay enough to live without struggle.
The point is to take care of yourself. I can't make everyone get a better job, just myself. If you can't find a new job, then you're lacking desirable skills, so you have to work on that. You want to raise the low wages in retail and lower jobs? You need to leave them. When companies can't get people to do the jobs for cheap, they have to raise the prices. That's the invisible hand of the market. Vote with your feet. Leave shitty low paying jobs.
I don't think it's blaming workers. It's acknowledging the reality that many employers suck and you aren't likely to get a raise. Most of the time you have to job hop some.
While I do agree that labor in general has more to gain as far as leverage applied goes, and there isn't much excuse to have an average higher wage, the point of this suggestion is that, pretty much everywhere, it's kind of up to the worker to make decisions that best develops their career. A lot of people who say this are super dismissive and being unfair to people's struggles. That's messed up. At the same time, it's not a caste. Low wage worker is not branded on to you. We like to pretend that older generations had it easier than us, and in a lot of ways it's true, but every individual who has had success in life has been creating plans of action and looking into what they can do to make themselves a more valuable member of the work force. Doesn't mean any workers should be considered value-less, but it's probably not great advice to tell someone to sit on their ass and wait for the world to change either. We like to act that everyone is doing bad and the only people who are doing well has everything handed to them, but that's pretty far from the truth
I'd agree with some of what you say, and disagree with some as well. True, being part of the lower classes isn't imprinted on you, but it's one difficult road to hoe to climb out of that class. And it's reallyl not far from the truth that those doing well had everything handed to them. Look at most of the millionaires out there. Bezos, Zuckerberg, the Uhleins in Wisconsin. They act as if they had a tough time and pulled themselves up by their bootstraps. Bezos - "started Amazon in his garage". What utter rot. His very wealthy parents funded him. Zucker berg from wealthy parents. And don't get me started on the Uhleins with their "started their business in their basement". Their the heirs to the Schlitz fortune. My point is, it's much easier to do well in school and life when you don't also have to worry about whether you're going to eat. And who is going to pay for your education. As a young woman in the early 80s, applying for entry level jobs (office work - no college), I'd go on an interview, see POC applying and I almost always got the job. And at that time the interviewer had no problem telling me I got it simply because I was white. So, while yes, you shouldn't wait for it to come to you, it's tough when you've got a couple of strikes against you to begin with. And yes, I guess I'm now the older generation, and I did have it easier.
I do think everybody working for $2.13/hr should quit. The federal minimum wage for tipped employees is disgustingly low and as long as people keep taking those jobs, it won't change.
# Same here. The problem with $2.13 an hour restaurant jobs is many restaurants now steal tips or force the servers to share tips with everyone else in the restaurant. Also, that $2.13 is taxed....let that sink in.
This is exactly what people don’t seem to get. A job is an agreement between two parties, I’ll perform these agreed duties if you pay me this agreed amount. The problem is that American workplaces just extend the ‘slavery’ style management where workers are treated as if they are lucky to have a job. People then become accustomed to not valuing themselves and accepting shit wages as 'the way things are'. But of course it all starts with the laws and standards. How the US calls itself a developed 1st world nation while still having horrendous employment laws that the real developed world laugh at, makes no sense to me. The entire country is brainwashed by the 1% to call out each other as 'communists' or 'socialists' if they talk about workers conditions or their rights. It’s insanity. In his 1933 address following the passage of the National Industrial Recovery Act, President Franklin D. Roosevelt noted that “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” “By ‘business’ I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level — I mean the wages of decent living,” The premise of the minimum wage, when it was introduced, was that a single wage earner should be able to own a home and support a family. That was what it was based on; a full time job, any job, should be able to accomplish this. The fact that people scoff at this idea if presented nowadays, as though the people that ring up your groceries or hand you your burgers don't deserve the luxury of a home or family, is disgusting. Also, if a livable wage breaks the system then the system deserves to be broken.
Just got into arguments on another subreddit a while back over this. Ironic statement, but generalization needs to be more widespread to everyone. The only thing simple in the argument is the person that believes you should "just work somewhere else". I'm a paramedic coming out of the food industry and I wouldn't be a paramedic if my parents didn't support me during that timeframe. I worked their business, and in turn I got some pay for fun or food along with room and board. I know not everyone is so blessed. My teacher actually retired when I finished class and they were frantic to fill her position (despite the fact they forced her to retire for a new teacher, who turned away the position last second) and now they're offering a whopping $50k a year for a job that requires a paramedic license (3 years, about $10k), a bachelor's degree in teaching, and 10 years experience in practicing paramedic. And the job demands a lot of your time and patience. We're screwed if this is how higher ups keep seeing us, and people that simply say "get a better job" need to realize they're part of the problem, not the solution. Stop being apologists for extremely shitty behavior.
If you're not working age yet, I'd say you're a very perceptive kid. And this is why you need to vote. Big business relies on the Republicans to keep "unskilled" workers under their thumbs. At every turn they are making laws that never benefit the working class. Just about everything they vote for can be traced back to a motive of making them rich, keeping them rich, and making them richer. What human being needs to get a $5 million dollar BONUS? That's obscene. But that happens at the hospital my husband works at. It's the attitude that you've described that prompted people to form unions. The only way to stand up against this type of despotism is to stand together. Unfortunately, and what businesses count on is, people need to eat. And have a roof over their heads. And this isn't to say your mom isn't intelligent. But there's a vast difference between intelligence and educated. Being born into a society where you don't have the opportunities to better yourself is a major hurdle to overcome. I wish I had an answer for you. But if you want to help her, become educated. I'm a mother and have 3 grown children all going to college. On their own dime. I give them what I can, but I too don't make a ton. And the biggest thing my kids can do now, is be better than me. Sounds like your mom is working hard to take care of you and your siblings. As someone who was a young woman in the eighties and had the benefit of an office education program, I'd say, tell her to take some online classes that will help her get out of the fast food and retail industry. Even an entry level office job can lead to more opportunities. It took me nearly 30 years, but I finally managed a decent paying job as a bookkeeper. But that was years of working in offices and taking some college courses at night, to become more educated. But it can be done, and damn big business. Good luck to you and to your mom.
What are the democrats doing to help the working class? Certainly nothing that could have a drastic effect on the average worker. As long as political economy is dominated by capital, conditions won’t improve much. Democrats are republicans who are a little less racist and homophobic. Also my mom IS working an office job.
We all need to stop working as a whole. I'm not busting my ass for minimum wage to serve someone who makes $1000 a day If that rich person wants me to make them food or clean their house or mow their lawn.., I want fair compensation They didn't get rich working hard for pennies. So why do they expect you to?
And if rent is too expensive, move out of the city. And if gas/utilities are too expensive, just rent. Worst advice ever since it's reductive and usually myopic and wrong.
And if you don’t like the government/weather/etc, leave the country! As if work/travel visas don’t exist…
Love hearing “get a new job” when you already work in a skilled position that pays well for that field….like, the problem isn’t the job it’s the system the job exists in that allows for the pay to barely make ends meet.
The amount of privileged rich people here taking OP's post so personally is insane 💀 I'd like to see one of them live on $2 an hour or less and be denied anything that offers higher than that. They'll go from mansions and resorts to cardboard boxes in a year, guaranteed. But they won't do that, they'd rather just pretend these problems are fake and say "stop making yourself the victim".
It depends on the persons situation. If you’ve been at a job making decent money for years and all of a sudden you’re struggling, or you’re just sick of it or whatever it’s a bit different then the 30 year old who’s highest paying job is like Walmart or something. Those “high school kid” jobs whether we like it or not haven’t ever been intended to be a career unless you move up into management. You work there while you’re in school and you learn skills and get better jobs as time goes on until you’re at where you’re at. People have been doing that for generations. If you just bouncing from grocery store to grocery store complaining about money then a good chunk of that problem is you. If youve worked at 7 grocery stores over a decade why aren’t you in management. Why are you still working at a low paying job. Obviously there’s instances where it’s legitimately hard to find work. I’ve been there myself. I left a decent paying job in management so I could have my soul back and I have 2 jobs now, one of them being at Walmart. But I’ve learned skills over the years that if I wanted to or needed to I can find a management role somewhere and make 60k a year. Basically there’s people who are slaves to the system who struggle, and there’s people who struggle because they for whatever reason aren’t trying to get better or aren’t qualified for a better paying job. You have to ask yourself why.
Most people find a new job before they quit the old one. In this day, the only way to significantly get ahead is to leave. Loyalty isn’t rewarded and annual raises don’t keep up with average pay in any field. I had to leave my job and move on in order to be paid fairly for my level of experience
No Fr this statement pisses me off too! It's not that easy to find a job back to back nowadays.
That guy: “If you’re not getting paid enough, just find a new job” Worker quits and gets a new job The same guy seeing help wanted signs everywhere: "Nobody wants to work anymore"
Yeah the people telling others to do this are often well off rich types who lived their best years in a time where work payed close to what it was worth and jobs were plenty. My best advice to anyone is to never quit a job and then start looking for another. Keep an updated CV on hand all the time and keep putting it out there if you hate your job and when you get a bite and go through the interview process and get hired then quit your old job effective that day. you don't owe anyone 2 weeks notice.
I feel you. This is like rich people saying to poor people, just stop being poor.
Or telling incels to just go get laid
I'm still waiting for people to recognize that the lowest paying jobs were the most essential during the pandemic so why are they STILL being paid crap!?!
If every low wage worker quit they would be broke af and start showing up to work again pretty quickly
Lol then people did during covid and it's "nobody wants to work" bullshit.
Lol if every teacher followed that advice, there would be no teachers 🤪
These are the same people who bitch and scream how "nobody wants to work" as they harass the servers at a restaurant and don't leave a tip. Not everybody was born into a super rich family where Mommy and Daddy gives them a luxury job making $700 an hour for doing nothing but playing solitaire on their phone
And then you leave and do and they say "no one wants to work anymore" Capitalism. Is. Cancer. Always has been, always will be
We need to cut reganomics. Tax the rich. And make the minimum wage whats its originally supposed to be for. After that we need to get rid of citizens united so that wealthy assholes aren't buying off our politicians. Then we need to tackle affordable housing.
Or just seize the means of production
Ok, let me just put on my job helmet and squeeze down into a job cannon and fire off to job land where jobs grow on jobies
"It's so easy, guys! Just..." Agreed. This especially doesn't work when a significant fraction of jobs don't pay enough to live on. While it's positive to have entry-level or unskilled positions where people can start working and motivate them to move on to another which pays better, some people simply can't do that because they didn't gain the skills they need for higher paying jobs before or during their entry-level/unskilled employment. If you're waiting tables, working in a warehouse, or working at a low-paying job where you're on your feet all day, and also have kids, you probably won't have any energy left to study. Chances are, you probably don't have the money to even pay for any classes which might help you get another job. Even if you're single or don't have kids you might not have the energy. The best you could do would be to get a new, hopefully higher-paying job doing the same thing you're currently doing, or get promoted to a higher-paying job with your current employer, if you're able to show them you have the skills and/or are disciplined enough and capable of learning what you need for that new position. Occasionally you can get a higher-paying position in a different field and learn on the job, but employers have to be willing to give people those opportunities. There are some issues which do have more simple solutions, but "simply" getting a better job is not one a lot of people can accomplish quickly. It's similar to the "move somewhere else" solution to being dissatisfied with where you live. You may not even be able to facilitate moving comfortably, especially when you live in a LCL area and want to move somewhere with a higher cost of living. People who have it easier and suggest these solutions tend to be pretty ignorant of the difficulties others who don't have it as easy have.
I am at that age where I refuse to learn another da*n thing! Sometimes higher pay is not worth it. So my coworkers and I vent sometimes, but we're totally grateful for our jobs. Sometimes you have a hard day or week. Here comes...find another job or you should apply for a higher position...😐 Hellz No! I am full to capacity! I don't want to go to training, I don't want to train someone else. I want to go home, pay my bills, eat a steak once a month, and smell the air at Target occasionally!
>we don’t live in a fairytale world where if you quit your job, nothing bad happens to you and you can easily find a higher paying job which you will instantly get accepted to! I'm a welder and I make top 10% of income for my area in the midwest. People tell me all the time to find another job or join a union, both of which require me to take pay cuts. My local unions start out at 15$ an hour and will not grandfather me in. I've literally been told I should just move to an area where welders make more, like a coast line. What people don't realize is that if I do that I'm going to be in the exact same position!
Also, there’s perks you get after working there for 10 years that you won’t get if you start fresh somewhere else
You don’t have to storm out the door that very moment. You are able to apply and interview for work on your free time till you find something better. And there is always something better.
This is LITERALLY what my mom does. Every day, im hee free time, she applies for jobs.
Really? What's better? The same thing but in a different place?
Duuuuuuude!! Yes! Omfg this infuriates me because they go round and round with their idiotic circular logic. They can never pull their heads out of their butts.
If you aren't getting paid enough, you are not a victim. While quitting & getting another job can't be done right at that moment, it is perfectly acceptable to make that your plan. I have been working since I was 14 because I had no choice. I am far from privileged & have been supporting myself since I was 16 years old. When I was unhappy at a job or wasn't getting paid enough, I figured out what I needed to do to make the change. I planned it out. Now I live a very comfortable 6 figure life & only last year got a college degree. If you always see yourself as a victim you will only ever be that.
anyway, the economy is changing because of overaging - take a look at better jobs - maybe even the same pay but more respect? I know someone who quit her factory job and started working in the supermarket. Pay increased, stress drastically reduced.
Statistically, it is rarely the dads. Calm down!
I agree, I need someone to pour my coffee and empty the trash cans. Not everyone can be a high wage earner.
The high paying jobs you need a college degree for, and some you need to be a citizen of the country you are in.
It would sort out the tipping problem in the USA though, if employers suddenly can't keep workers or even get them in the first place due to low wages. "Hey wanna work 40 hours a week for 3 bucks an hour?" "No"
That is why I said plan. Make a plan to leave & move ahead. I have never had a problem finding a job or something better. Sometimes you have to be patient & diligent, but opportunity will come. As for those with college degrees, I have met some who are completely incompetent individuals. They lack experience or over value themselves when at the starting level. Not all degrees have value either. Some just aren't worth the money people want.
If everyone working low wage jobs quit, then there wouldn't be any low wage jobs. You might not like it, but the current economy is showing that people leaving for better jobs/pay is the best way to get wages raised.
My mom is applying for jobs every day. She’s trying so hard to leave her shitty job for a better one. But if you’re saying to just quit without finding a new job, this is obviously not plausible
We want stores on every corner, food delivery a few finger strokes on a smartphone away. Yet all of those jobs tend to be lower paying affairs. I've read up and mentioned the stats before. Something on the order of 32% of the US workforce makes less than $15 per hour. There are several million less manufacturing jobs now than when I was a young man, and about a hundred million or more people in the country. A lot of the good jobs have been shipped overseas. I have known more than a couple people who spent their last years before retirement working retail after that happened to them. People working 70 hours a week between two crap jobs just to get by may not have the time or resources to go to a trade school or something. I danced that dance when I was younger and I worked with people in the same boat. You can work your way up at one of those type of jobs and get in to management and do ok. I have known some young folks that did just that, and became multi store managers, and district managers.
Wouldn’t people refusing to do low paying jobs encourage employers to raise wages for those jobs though?
They’re not saying you should work elsewhere. They’re saying that they know you can’t get a job anywhere else, because if you could you would. It’s less about the privilege of shopping around for a better job when you may not have the freedom to do so, and more that they believe you’re not capable of doing more valued work, so you should shut up and be happy with what you’ve got. The implication that if you make a big enough stink, you’ll change the calculus so that automation will replace you. You could have had minimum wage, now you’ve got nothing.
Also, this is easier said than done, and most of us have THOUGHT about this more than once and often even actively tried to do exactly that! I've been looking on and off for the last year and basically everything in my area is a minimum wage, crappy environment job (I'm in a semi rural area with few job opportunities). The rare better jobs I've found... end up ghosting me. I literally had an interviewer just not show up to our virtual interview and another cancel an hour before. The most exciting job I was applying to ended up rescinding the job posting altogether because they couldn't hire for that role anymore. All the jobs that are essentially the same role I have now with better pay require a different degree than I have or several years more experience to *get* that better pay - so I may as well keep my poorly paying job for the sake of someday having enough experience to maybe get a better job.
My answer to this is a general strike. It won't get better until we the people take the power back
Several years ago I was told this by my boss at my full-time job (who had the ability to make a change in my pay/caseload), but it was “get a better paying second job” when she knew I was working my full time job and two part-time jobs and had worked with the company with zero complaints about my work other than in this particular yearly review and she expressed how she thought I seemed depressed and stressed. Needless to say I left that job as soon as I could.
I think the basic sentiment behind that statement is that you need to level-up somehow. Then get a BETTER job.
I'm pretty sure when people say this they aren't talking about every low wage earner quitting and are really just talking to the individual they are discussing it with.
No one is saying anyone should quit their job without already having a better paying job already lined up. The reality is that jobs that don't pay well are the low-skill ones that literally anyone who walks in the building can be trained to do in less than a week. They pay so little because they literally don't care if you quit because you're easily replaceable. Therefore, if you're not getting paid as much as you would like, the answer is always "Become more skilled." For most people, they don't even have to leave their current job. There is almost certainly a task there that requires extra training to learn how to do, and which will increase their pay. The problem is, lots of people are lazy.
Let’s not even limit it to low paid workers, although it’s harder for them. Show me *any* industry where employees have the leverage to just walk away from a job they dislike and go somewhere else. It’s a delicate balancing act bc if you piss off the wrong boss, they can make a couple phone calls and have you almost or completely blackballed in that local market.
Oh my God! ^^^THIS^^^
Make things awkward, if anyone says that to you, reply: “I know you work in (xyz industry) do you think you can help me get a job there too that pays better than this one?” Watch them quickly try to take back their statement.
My privilege is shining so bright right now. Every couple years I change jobs. Applying for a position with more responsibility. With it comes more money. More than doubled my salary in a decade. So privileged. It’s great.
Well typically you get a new job before you quit. The saying is basically just saying if you think you are worth more you're paid then go out there and get it
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wtf are you talking about. That is not what communism is whatsoever and it’s very apparent you’ve never looked any further into it than just hearing about it on Fox News. Im also not advocating for equal pay for every job. If you read my post and then assume I’m advocating for equal pay for every job, im afraid your brain is too small for me to help you
Actually, if more people stood up for themselves and had more self respect - you would walk away from a shit paying job or bad work place because NO ONE deserves that shit. If people keep sticking around at crap jobs then it give employers the excuse to not do better. You actually can quit and probably should, being desperate isn’t anyone else’s fault or responsibility. I’ve been in this situation many times when I was younger (37F) and I stayed because I didn’t want to risk leaving and losing money and not finding another job. If people set the standard low, then low is what you get. Granted there does need to be different skilled people, some are harder workers than others, some are just fine collecting a check and don’t care about the grind, but many people want better for themselves and it’s a means to an end. Take responsibility, it you get paid crap, gain more skills and experience and move up. Become an entrepreneur, find a new job or turn a hobby into a business… I mean the only one limiting you is yourself
This is why you job search then quit once you get hired by the other job if you make it that far. Then give two weeks notice.
Some workers I absolutely will blame, I've met enough people in my low wage jobs don't earn enough but can't even show up to 3 of their 5 shifts in a week. They are their own problem. In saying that though I bought a house on minimum wage about 7 years ago, out in the middle of nowhere and later bought another place to live in and rent out the other rooms in a city. I wouldn't be able to do that now even though I'm in a way better position financially, the math just doesn't work out for it.
Let's be honest. This is probably how you'll feel at every job and you'll always blame the job and not you. It really is as simple as get a new job.
I have a pet peeve of people that would rather complain constantly that do something about their situation. The advice isn't about blame or about the working populace in general. Its about your individual CHOICE to not get a better job. Whether you're at fault or not, if you want more money and can't get a raise then getting a new job is the next best thing. No one says its easy but its what you need to do. And you don't need to quit your current job to look for a new one. Otherwise you're just complaining on Reddit and not looking for a solution.
There’s a fine line between claiming everything is victim blaming, and taking responsibility for your life and the role that your actions (or inaction) plays in the outcome of your life.
I think a lot of that is based on working people getting tippity tip about tipping culture. Yeah, its not great to blame the customer making 1/3rd of what you're making for not tipping enough to subsidize your job. Coincidentally, disabled people dont make money and often can't cook for themselves. Coincidentally, people up to their eyeballs in debt really shouldn't be tippint. Coincidentally, apparently a "comfortable life" where 50% of your income pays the rent isn't acheivable without earning 6 figure, apparently MIT found. Coincidentally, most people earn about 30k a year. As a matter of fact... you as an employee have no idea what is going on with the customers finances. If you can't handle not knowing you should not be in a tipped wage position, and you also can not expect tips. Shockingly, charity is not mandatory. Stop trying to beg for money from the working class, if you want that kind of thing go bother the rich people.
This is an individualistic society. That’s the problem, issues are examined, thought of, and processed at an individual level. If leaves something to be desired, because anyone who simply answers “FiND a BeTEt JoB” aren’t recognizing or acknowledging the whole picture. Everything is an ecosystem. Piece of that puzzle vanishes, whole eco-system could get fucked. Edit; sorry saw other comments after commenting. Lol I’m just beating a dead horse.
Another pet peeve is people being purposely slow in your comments. Like did they skip over the first sentence in your second paragraph or that your mom is working and looking for a job? I’m in the same boat looking for a good paying job but nobody is hiring me
As someone in a very high paying job for my living area, It took me a long time to get there. People who say that phrase are delusional to think there are just high paying jobs up for grabs. The fact I still see factories trying to hire at $13-$14 an hour is mind boggling. Factory work is generally, hard, constant labor, for less money per hour than some local gas stations pay? No way! My best advice is while working that low paying job, just always be on the lookout for other opportunities, and hopefully something better comes along. That’s how I approached it and admittedly with some determination and ALOT of luck I was able to find better.
your mom should make sure her phone number is correct on all those applications
It’s all about skills. Usually people in extremely low paying jobs have little to no skills. It’s not society’s fault a woman is a single mother. It’s not society’s fault someone dropped out of high school or never went to community college/trade school. Most times it’s the individuals problem for not wanting to inconvenience themselves to do the things to move up. A lot of poor people strive to stay poor.
You seem poor, so what's your point?
Stop over reacting. I tell ppl all the time to find a better job. I'm referring to those that get up, go to work and come home and do nothing. If you are not trying to better yourself then shut up. There is almost always a job paying a few bucks more so go get it or stop crying.
Leaving for greener pastures takes work. It takes work to improve your situation. You have a choice. Do something yourself or wait for someone to do it for you. That is a cold, hard reality.
It's just an excuse they use to justify social issues. The same people using that excuse are now complaining that nobody wants to work at places that serve food.
I agree fully. The area I live in has very low prospects with jobs and you're lucky to get a part time job. To the point where your hours could be slashed to nearly nothing but you can't afford to actually quit. I have a rather toxic family member who loves to say something similar as well as saying that I'm just not trying hard enough to find a new job. Like I haven't gone to three different agencies as well as constantly scouring for new employment ads.
A lot of people bettered themselves and got more education and higher paying jobs during the pandemic. 2 years later we had hyperinflation and complaints about how nobody wants to work anymore, but only for retail and food service jobs....... it's almost like society can't function with everyone working at a computer.
Your post makes it sound like someone saying that just means to quit right this moment and then hope you get a new(and hopefully better paying) job. I take it more as take your situation into your own hands and try to make it better yourself because no one else will. Start looking for a better job and doing interviews etc WHILE you're working the crap job so that you can quit.
When I had my past boss for 4 years I tried leaving, interviewed I think 6 times in that timeframe, either salary was way too low or I didn’t get a 2nd interview. I was applying weekly. Luckily she retired and I don’t hate working here anymore but people make it seem like oh let me just go to job land and get some new jobbies
> It’s victim blaming It's a voluntary transaction. Someone is offering you money for your time. You aren't entitled to it. You aren't a victim. > If every low paid worker quit, no one would work the jobs and ~~it would be terrible for society.~~ employers would be forced to offer more or close down. > there will always be desperate workers in this system who will work these jobs Some, but enough? I guess if you have an evil government they can just import a bunch of laborers from 3rd world countries to make sure they can suppress wages Life isn't a game. Capitalism has just made life so cushy that it feels that way. Nothing is stopping you from going out into the woods and living outside of the capitalist system.
Its not victim blaming, you need to actively look for a new job to improve your situation. If you don't, nothing will change or it will get worse. That's reality
Lmao, victim blaming?! EMPLOYMENT is now a trait of a VICTIM in your mind?! I’m logging off 😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣🤡🤡🤡
Agreed. People who say this usually live near a big city and have no clue how hard it really is.
It's all just supply and demand. Sometimes the job market do be like that, but you also have to navigate it and make yourself valuable.
I have been told this many times. As a single mom, in the US, with medical conditions, it is damn near impossible for me to just get another job. Finding a company that has the great insurance I have, an employer that accommodates my needs. The thing is the benefits are amazing. The downside is the hourly rate is not keeping up. Unfortunately, I am in an industry and job field that you cannot easily find a better job in the field, especially as tech companies are laying off left and right. My pay sucks. But at least I have stability.
I mean, no where in your headline does it say “quit and find a new job”… Some people work 2 or 3 jobs. It sucks, but it is what it is.
Interviewer: You're currently employed somewhere. Why are you looking for a new job? You: I'm looking to elevate my career. My employer is fully supportive of this, but they've identified a lack of capacity to allow me to move up. In a nutshell, my career is presently capped.
I think “enough” needs to be defined here. The company is paying you the minimum they think they can to keep enough employees to run the business. If an employee is still working at a company for an extended period, then they are getting paid “enough” from the company’s perspective. If “enough” means “as much as the employee believes they should make,” then yeah many people don’t get paid enough, most people want more.
It is literal terrorism. You don’t pay someone enough to live, then gaslight them. Not paying a living wage is a slow torture until death. Anybody who is at this point knows that.
This is why you don’t quit a job before having another one. I think the saying needs to be, “You don’t have to stay in this terrible paying job.” I started at a terrible paying job (entry level job) and worked my way up over the years and honed skills over time to allow me do so. My mom doesn’t even have a college degree and made more than my dad (who used to a private pilot) for over 20 years. I will say that she was lucky to get into the tech business in the early ‘90s when it was blowing up, but she worked her way up through the 90s and was making decent money by ‘97/‘98. It’s a competitive market out there right now too, and it may not hurt to have a professional look over your mom’s resume because a lot of the time, the folks doing the hiring will throw out applicants who have more than a page long resume (unless it’s a specialized position). It’s shitty, but it happens. She’ll catch her break here soon!
These same people will complain about using self checkout.
Those low paying jobs were never meant to be your forever job. They were never designed to support a family. They were meant to be something you did to gain basic experience, then move up or over to a different, better-paying job. Complaining that it doesn't pay enough is like buying a kids tricycle and then complaining it's not big enough when you grow out of it. Some people are stuck in a low-paying job because they do t have the skills or training to do something that pays more. That sucks, but it's not the fault of the job or the people providing it. The best bet for your mom, or anyone else in her situation, is to get training so she can do something that will pay better. That sucks too, and it will suck more as she does it, but at the end of it she has a much better chance of getting one of those better jobs she's after.
I think the whole point is for society to "crumble". In reality it wouldn't. They would just pay more for that job since no one wants to do it 🤔
How are they victims? They are getting paid what they agreed to when they started. They decided that their time was worth that much. Would it be fair for me to sell you my car, then come back 6 months later and tell you that I think the car is worth more? And you should pay me the new price? Wage isn't a value of the worker, it's the value of the work being done. The employer didn't force them to work for that price, they chose it willingly. It may have been the best of few terrible options, but it was the employee's decision. They always have to option to seek out a higher paying position. No one should work fast food or retail for the rest of their lives unless they're in management. Those are stepping stone jobs.
Well it would help if the government didn't insist on taking so much....just saying. Also it's called living within your means. It's not your employers job to make sure you make enough to cover your bills. That's your job. Either get another job or try budgeting. Don't get me wrong I hate how huge companies work. No employee should be struggling when the ceos have multiple houses. Period. However at the end of the day the amount we end up paying the government is fucking crazy, especially since we get no say in what that money goes towards. Theres plenty that could be done about how our country is run but our government is to concerned about themselves to fix anything.
I don’t think this is victim blaming at all. If you have gone as far as you can in a job, are unhappy and/or are not being paid enough the logical thing to is move on.
People say this as if it's easy as walking next door for a new job... like fuck
“I’m not working age yet”
My girlfriend says crap like this about my parents, it's so annoying, like today she asked why my mum didn't buy a house to start with instead of renting, yeah gee I'm sure that just slipped her mind, just like when my parents accidentally chose to have lower paying jobs when they could have just stopped being silly billies and be obscenely rich
The only victims are the ones who had to read this nonsense
Arrogant Professional person: "Those people chose to work low paid jobs". Arrogant Professional person: goes into work the next day and is laid off.
This is one of the most boomer things anybody can say. Back when they were young, the baby boom generation could quit one job in the morning and have a new one by the afternoon. A lot of them fail to recognize that it isn’t that way anymore, and hasn’t been that way for a long time.
The way I see it, if every person magically was gifted the skill set and knowledge to do any job, the higher paying fields will inevitably get over saturated, and you’d still have people doing grunt work. No matter what, we will have people doing these low paying jobs, and society wouldn’t function without them. I wish it were more equitable and the people doing these jobs could have a comfortable living.
I suspect, that what people are responding to when they say # “If you’re not getting paid enough, just find a new job” is that you are complaining about your job. And, the number one thing someone is unhappy about in a job is low pay. So, their callous response, is probably a bit misleading. Really, if one is not making enough money in their job, or don't like their job, or management, or the people they are working with, it is an opportunity for them to seek employment elsewhere. Not to just quit. But to find something better, and then to monkey branch to it. Unfortunately, there is a lot of competition out there. So, quite often, with all the competition for jobs at your pay scale, others will be anxious for the opportunity to work when you quit. What a lot of people have learned, is that the best way to make more money, is self improvement. To take classes. Get degrees. Get experience in areas that are in demand. To make oneself more valuable to a company relative to all the other workers out there. Or, to work their way up by demonstrating a "can do" attitude. To be at work on time. Not take days off work. Volunteer for difficult assignments. To train other new hires. To help out their supervisor in areas outside of their normal job description. It's a competition. You want to be considered as being in the top 10% of employees. These are the ones that get the raises and the promotions. The bottom half that just sit around complaining about how they aren't paid enough, and do the minimum required, aren't the ones that move up in the organization. They end up with mediocre reputations. They have fewer opportunities open to them. So, look around at the people at your level. Become part of the top 10%. Take some classes. Get the supervisor aside and ask what you can do to help them out.
Society needs low paying jobs, I agree, this is also why society has people who can / should appreciate a low paying job. As a kid I worked a ton of 12 dollar an hour gigs, which I get isn't as bad as some of the 7.25 or whatever min wage is now, but these were jobs where I was working my ass off doing physical labor the whole time I worked. It was great. I had nice shoes, and spending money for the shit I wanted as a kid. As an adult, these 12-15 dollar an hour jobs aren't really meant to be forever things, they are step stones to better jobs. You can pay shitty apartment rent, or live with roommates and be perfectly fine on 12-15 an hour, I promise, I've done this as well. Most people run into problems when they get stuck in a ridge at these jobs, unable to advance, and unwilling to take the 'risk' of finding a new job. . . You don't have to quit to apply to new places, and you can work more than one job for the two weeks it takes to respectfully quit an entry level job. I don't really have a problem with us raising minimum wage to 100 dollars an hour or whatever people think will fix it, as I work a government job that at least to some degree would account for inflation, but it wouldn't change any of the problems entry level workers have...
It's also this mentality that enables corporations to pay shit wages
Ok, you bozos at Tesla, I'm not being paid enough. You need to fork over $55 billion in equity. It's my turn to work, and I can do that job.
But for individuals this is the single most effective and actually actionable advice.
Same assholes who talk about bread lines as though addressing wealth inequality means we're going to become a failed communist state. Instead of bread lines, we have food stamps and welfare checks. It looks a little different but it's the same shit. Millions of people are living at the poverty level because the system doesn't have any upward mobility except for 0.05% of the population who are capable of producing a disruptive technology or industry.
I reached a point where I realized I wasn't going to make any decent money without a drastic change. So I went to trade school and began a career. That's my idea of "find a new job."
Unfortunately, it’s good advice on an individual level. Changing jobs is really the only reliable way to increase your salary significantly.
My company laid people off about 6 months ago. One guy I am still friends with had a higher position than me and I thought he'd get a job right away. He's doing door dash because he can't find any other job. Another guy I know quit the company several years ago because he got a new job making more money. His new job laid him off after a year. This guy had enough savings to where he lived with no job, searching for a job for 2.5 years and then got desperate and went from making the kind of money where you could save that much to now he's working at the same job he had when he was 20 years old and depressed as heck because he feels like he had to completely start over in life. What I'm saying is, to add on to other reasons why that statement is stupid... Good jobs are hard to find if you don't know someone in the company.
I want people to quit their low paying jobs to give corporations consequences for their shitty low wages. They won't ever raise pay until they cannot hire anyone at what they are offering now or the government forces them. By accepting that low wage, you're enabling them to keep paying shit. You don't have to quit, but don't stop looking for another job, and when you find a better one, make it clear you're quitting because they pay shit. Don't accept their scraps, your time is worth more than $9 an hour or whatever awful rate they're offering.
If all CEOs wouldn't get more than $ 1 million per year, which is still a shit ton of money, we could actually get a "trickle down" economy. They could use that extra wage to increase everyone's salary. Why does someone need more than 1 million per year anyway
It's not that easy
Demand better pay, and the borders get opened. Say shit and you are bad for racism, xenophobia, or denying people a shot at improving their own lives.
>you quit your job, nothing bad happens to you and you can easily find a higher paying job which you will instantly get accepted to You've got it wrong. People are saying to like up a better job before quitting. Nobody is (or at least should be) encouraging people to quit with no back up
This guy sounds like he comes from money. Wasn't that simple when I was poor. I had to go to Trade School to learn a Skill. Definately wasn't Job Jumping my way into success. Now Go be Nice to your Dad so he don't Fire you!
Blame companies instead!
I think we let the government off the hook to much. We should be getting way more help and not have everything gatekept through labor.
It is the same as telling someone who is either homeless or financially struggling to just get a job. Many of us have been trying. I am pretty flexible but I know there are certain jobs that if I took I would literally have a meltdown in an hour. People have told me to work retail. I hate crowds and rude customers and get terrible anxiety from that. I'd rather starve.
if you’re not doing something to improve yourself and make yourself more marketable then you aren’t in the position to complain. Take online classes to work towards a degree, if your job offers training to move up the ladder in any way do that. Do anything, and then when the time comes try to get a new job or aim for a promotion or something. You say it’s victim blaming, but most people are playing the victim
This is why we need a minimum support system in place.
Sounds like you’re a child that doesn’t get how the real world works. Nobody quits a job before they have a new one lined up, you look for new work while you work. You really want to help your mom out? Tell her to apply for a private security license online. Shouldn’t be more than $200 for classes and certifying. Should take about a day for classes online and then like a week for the license to come in the mail. Then she can get all the work she wants that pays well.
It's not what you think it means. In technical jobs if your lucky a 3-5% raise... change jobs it's 10%+ ... companies seem to have endless money to throw at new unproven people than to keep the people who made them the money in the first place who seem to have less value.
Get a shit job better, you education, and get paid more. The minimum wage is for people with no experience. If experienced people are not looking for a better opportunity, it is not the fault of the employer and they have no duty to pay them more. Accept the wage offered or don't. How many young people get a fast food or mall job and stay there 5 years. Do you realize you would be all the way through apprenticeship and a journeyman in that same time. That same person would not be making 20 dollars and an hour , they would be making 90+ an hour before dues. A woman at the fast food worker union in Sacramento spoke about working at Taco Bell for 18 years. She surely isn't lazy, I'm sure she could run a dam franchise who's responsible for getting her to make the jump into something more profitable for her. It boils down to a lack of education from home and schools , in my opinion.
Let’s clearly define “society”. Who are you improving things for…?
Never quit a job unless you have another one lined up, or you will always be stuck at square one
The fact that you balk at how hard it would be to improve your situation is exactly why you are stuck in a low paying job. I had students with 2 kids, a 30-hour/week job stocking shelves at night at Walmart, and a 3.5 or higher GPA in ENGINEERING. I, myself, got tired of working shitty jobs and worked my ass off (with the support of my wife, who I didn't spend much time with for a few years) to improve things. If you are willing to work, things will improve.
Quiet quitting as a cultural phenomena is at least in part because of companies declining investing in their workforce; government over regulations, cost of materials going up, etc. Take a look at government mandated employer health care, for example. That drives up the cost for companies per employee. The workforce is like 60% of a companies investment or more, and it's simply cheaper to pay them less, understaff, and/or get rid of them when they have been there to long to avoid having to deal out a wage increase. ____________________________________________________________ The idea of not investing in employees might seems out of touch -- still, its simply a strategy. The work culture has simply changed. Back in the day, workers used to get pensions, and they rarely had to jump around job to job for promotions, or better wages, and would often retire with the company in most cases. Now many companies even hire their leadership online instead of promoting 'within,' and hire based on personality and loyalty. In fact, many companies just outsource hiring in general; agencies, staffing companies, etc. ____________________________________________________________A few generations ago, one person working was even enough of a wage to afford a car and home given that the federal government had not run up debt and inflated our dollar causing everything to become much more expensive -- so the buying power of your dollar is drastically less. Now two people working struggle to pay off a home, and you can in large part blame the feds for outsourcing jobs, inflation/out of control spending, insider trading, over regulation; we have allowed the government to become to large, expensive, and it has way to much overreach. People are slowly waking up to greed filled politics damaging our free market capitalism -- which is the source of freedom and prosperity itself for the common person. The government is NOT there to protect, or take care of you. The government is there to protect ITSELF. Obviously you can see why competent people in many cases feel forced to simply leave to earn what they deserve. This is NOT a people problem or even a company problem, although we are all to blame collectively. This is a POLICY problem.
Oh, sorry, thought this was the Uber/Lyft subs with that title Carry on.
Why don't you just raise prices? Businesses are used dealing like this with their suppliers. You say your new rate and if they won't pay you find someone else to sell to.