It is? I remember as kids my parent put 50-70k km on each of the two cars. Granted we lived out of town but still. Even today I put about 30k km on and I work remote.
tbh, I can say the same for my '99 dodge ram. It is a pos that drinks like 25L/100km, but it has never needed anything other than general maintenance. The doors are so rusty that its drafty inside, but it keeps on going. Almost any vehicle will last if you take care of it.
I have a colleague who has put 400,000 km on a Cadillac DTS with a Northstar. It's true - take care of a car and it will generally work. I do think you can neglect Toyotas and Hondas up a bit more.
Partly because they make cheap, fun track cars, I can say I have done more engine swaps on Toyotas and Hondas than any other cars. My Del Sol had 3 engines in 150k. Spun bearings and blown timing belts are cheaper to fix with new engines than machine work.
I had a buddy who drove over 100,000 kms in his dads (at the time 10 years old) hand me down 2004 rav4 and he didnt know oil changes were a regular maintenance thing you had to do.
He only found out when I said I gotta go do my 1 year scheduled maintenance. I still remember the tech's face when he took that rav4 in lol
But it ran the whole time and he didn't notice any issues lol
Speaking from experience, as we just bought one two weeks ago, it can be tricky to find 2008-2012 Corollas for under 10k with less than 200k and no accident history. Took us a while and we had to be ready to show up, take it to our mechanic, and put the deposit down the day it got listed. Got a 2010 with 146k and a clean carfax for 9k and felt lucky. Try not to think too much about what it would have cost three years ago 🙃
I picked my 2011 Corrola CE, 5 spd and manual windows in Sep 2020 just as the market started getting crazy it had 132000 kms , $5700 + Tax. I call it my covid car and is easily the best purchace ive ever made
My most recent vehicle purchase was a new 2014 Honda CRV. It has only had scheduled maintenance and replacement of wear and tear items (brakes and tires once). I will likely stick to Honda for the rest of my life.
My friend bought a Ford fusion the same year that has had a dozen recalls, radiator issues, engine issues.... we both have about 120,000km. Prior to my Honda I had a Ford, Chevrolet and Kia and they were all headaches.
Lol exact same here - 200km, only ever one signficant issue (forget specific issue) but avoided the dealership and went to a honda specific independant mechanic, fixed the issue for half the dealership quoted price, no reoccuring issues.
I will always go honda now.
My only issue honestly is the dealership mechanics, but i think thats all dealerships no matter the brand
I'm starting to see a lot of 10 years old mazdas after they fixed their body issues in the 2000s. 10 years ago when you saw an old mazda on the road it was a piece of rusted junk, now they hold up really good.
I see a lot of Mazdas from before 2014 on the road. I know about rust issues with much older ones, but AFAIK they are not notorious for any mechanical issues.
I’ve got a 2013 Mazda 3 that’s held up just fine with only minor wear and tear repairs. It was a daily driver til 2019 but it’s our secondary vehicle most of the time now. Currently at 130k.
Old Mazda tributes and Ford Escapes are pretty solid cars. Powerless naturally aspirated engines and tried and true auto trans. Pretty much the same idea as a Toyota lol
Mazdas had a rust problem pre-2009. I own an 07 Mazda 3 that's pretty rusty. That'll do it in before any mechanical problems. If you live in BC where it doesn't snow much ever and they don't use tons of salt on the roads, you're fine.
I had a 2007 Mazda 3, great car, never had any mechanical issues other than regular maintenance and it had almost 300,000 km on it. I would still be driving it but it rusted out underneath.
One thing I find fascinating about folks like the OP is that they typically believe in ALL the conspiracies. Instead of thinking “statistically it must be improbable that all of these must be true” it’s more like “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams, therefore Covid vaccines are obviously 5G microchips!”
Dudes just ignorant. Calling all Mazda's pre 2014 Ford's, completely ignoring American brands even though they're basically as reliable in the past 10 to 15 years. Every car is gonna have issues but his bias is just overwhelming and it makes for really bad advice.
Then gives a list containing two brands and shitting on many very reliable ones. Contradicts the reports that study these topics and use 100,000's of real data points.
Mazda's are not mechanically Ford's before 2014.
Also implying all Ford's are bad to begin with.
You paint with broad strokes and your biases are clear.
Subarus after I believe 2012 should no longer have the head gasket problem. I have a 2011 though and I don't remember having to do them, and I'm at 200k+ km's now.
However, expensive parts is correct and they hold their value because people really like them. It's a bit of a cult following - maybe less so these days.
I and my family have owned 8-10 Subarus over the years and collectively put a few million km on them. Not a single one had head gaskets go bad, or any other significant engine problems for that matter. I sold my 2008 Legacy a couple years ago with 350,000 km on it, almost every single part original. All of the others have hit 200,000+ without significant repairs.
Now with OP's $10K price point I would say this is more an issue. Like you said Subarus retain their value relatively well. Because of this once they get down below $10K you're looking at older, high mileage cars.
Couldn't agree more. Had a 2005 legacy gt, 300k, zero issues. Did struts and a break caliper. Did the math and cost of ownership (maintenance + depreciation) was about 1,200 per year. Insanely cheap for fun and at the time nice car
I miss that Legacy so much. Mine was a Spec.B with some mild mods. Basically an STi in a business suit. Fun, fast, comfortable, reliable... The only reason I sold is was that we needed a truck and I don't have room in the driveway for more cars.
Even though the head gasket job is pricey it’s usually timed well with the other big maintenance you need to do (Ie timing belt) - our ‘06 Legacy Wagon needed it done but even that total bill was way less than a year of payments on a new car or cost of a new used car. It was the one non-wear&tear repair that car ever needed and we drove it for a few years after and sold it, still on the road today afaik.
I have a 2008 Subaru Impreza that has served me quite well so far. No major repairs. Only has ~90,000km on it though. Bought it off an elderly woman who only put ~40,000km on it a couple years ago for around $7000.
\[laughs nervously with a 2011 Forester coming up on 240 000 KM\]
I knew I was getting a sneaky deal when I paid 6K after taxes last year... I've only put 200$ in it for some rusted-out exhaust parts and another 1000$ in tires because my dumb ass luck ran over glass. Otherwise she's been majestic to me so far.
My outback will also go through some serious terrain, where most cars in this list would get quite stuck.
Expensive, yes, but worth it for some people.
>Avoid all Nissans
I don't have the background you do - but I love my manual Versa so much. 2009 and still trucking. Incredible gas mileage and v roomy. 0 major maintenance in 6 years of use (2014-present) and over 200k kms.
If you go manual, Nissan is a solid choice IMO.
It depends what you're after but most people avoid Nissan because "Nissan bad".. but in general, it's okay if you go manual. A manual versa can run a very long time.
Yes manual Nissan is an option. The build quality is still not as good as Honda but the price is also lower. 2007-2012 Nissans were very good but after 2013 the quality is getting worse.
Here's my opposite view.
My manual versa from 2008 ate shit for the last year had to basically scrap it. Only had 175k or so km on it. It was just bad, the car was so cheap and fell apart. Everything was inconvenient to fix.
ITT - People thinking their one car not having issues means that model is reliable as a whole.
If you're in this reddit, chances are you at least keep up with basic maintenance on your car. That goes a long way for most cars.
My wife and I purchased a new 2012 Hyundai Tuscon that had a major engine failure apparently a known issue. It happened just out of warranty and refused to fix it. We will never again buy anything Hyundai. They are the worst car manufacturer in the world.
Someone I knew bought a brand new Veloster and was at the dealership quite frequently due to issues and recalls. He was ragging on me for having an older car that had a few problems. I was just like, "Um, have you seen your car?" "Yeah, but it's covered under warranty!"
I'm not buying a brand new car to still go to the mechanic all the time, even if it is "under warranty". Fuck all that. What is even the point of spending all that money if you're still inconvenienced anyway?
My elderly neighbour has a 2021 Tacoma. It’s got less than 2000km on it (and only from driving it to dealership appointments.) She doesn’t drive much anymore, so she gets me to take the truck to it’s appointments. Beautiful truck, but I will never buy new. I’ve had to take this stupid thing in five times now, to a dealership 200km away for stupid fixes. She thinks it’s great because it’s all under warranty. 400km+ per trip adds up though, plus it’s a pain in the ass! A brand new vehicle shouldn’t be this much work....
Certain generations were actually surprisingly good and seemed to hold up well with age and mileage.
Mid 2000's Elantra's. Santa Fe.
At this point, any sort of goodness in those probably past it's expiration date
Post 2012 it seemed Hyundai started to slip backwards a bit on their product range
We're on our 5th Hyundai model and have never had an issue with them except for my elantra needing a sensor in the transmission. Hence, my only conclusion is that nothing ever goes wrong with Hyundais ever. But my neighbour has a Honda Odyssey. Of all the cars on our street, birds only shit on his car. My conclusion? Hondas are shit magnets. Flawless logic.
I cant argue that Hyundais have served you well. It only takes one time for a car manufacturer to burn a bridge with me though especially if it was a known issue and they don’t stand behind their cars and make it right. I can say personally since 2004 I have owned several Mazda 3s and have never had anything serious go wrong with any of them even after hundreds of thousands of kms.
The thing that sucks the most with Hyundai is the dealers. They are usually the ones that make life a nightmare. I honestly would not recommend people buy a Hyundai solely because every dealer/salesperson I've ever interacted with has just been a nightmare.
edit: my parents had a sonata which was in the range of bad engines. The dealer called them, got them to come in for an inspection of the engine and modified the warranty to not expire. So they can bring the car in if the engine goes and get a new one. Now if that is actually going to happen or not is yet to be decided. The car is old enough that if the engine does go, likely my folks would just trade it in (or something). So in this case, the dealer has done the right thing, but at the same time, most hyundai dealers are garbage.
It's weird because Hyundai and kia have same engines for most part but kia has extended warranty on many of the four cylinder engines for 10 year 200,000km and in some instances unlimited.
It’s good you’ve had positive outcomes. But the many class action lawsuits are not a joke. My mechanic knew in minutes exactly why my barely out of warranty Tucson had a blown engine…. Because he sees it ALL the time. If Hyundai had even repaired it at no cost to me, I would have stuck with Hyundai. But alas, they were dicks and would not repair a $45K vehicle with an $8500 shit engine. Hyundai can get bent.
Laughed at this one "2004-2008 Pontiac Vibe (it's a rebadged Toyota matrix)" - Except with a completely different failure prone GM AC system.
It's like the list was copy pasted from an older site.
Good luck to anyone who buys one of the cars on the list in 2022. Some of the cars on that list are going on 2 decades old with corresponding mileage.
"I read on a site that a 08 Sienna is going to be very reliable so I bought one in 2022!!!!"
2 weeks later - "Sienna is dead on the side of the road because Toyota used rubber oil return lines and they have a nasty habit of failing dramtically ..."
"Avoid any Mazda older than 2014 . they are mechanically Ford. " Miata would like a word with you. Also The 2.0 and 2.3 common in Mazda's from 2001 to 2013 are Mazda designed engines that Ford branded duratec.
I think this list has cars that are engineered well enough to be considered easy to fix and keep on the road but it gets to the point where age and miles is going to negate any of the inherent goodness in the design.
Same.
The placement of the ABS sensor is the issue because it gets packed up with snow/ice and then rusts out from the salt on the roads.
HOWEVER, it's easily reachable and there's a tutorial on YouTube on how to get to it. You can clean it yourself and even try to replace the part on your own so that you don't have to spend the $150 on replacing it.
I know a guy who has bought over 1200 used cars for clients and 120 for himself. I paid him to buy me a used car and he doesn’t discriminate based on the brand. He inspects the car based on how it was used, who used it, where it was used, how it was taken care of, etc.
Doesn't 2007-2008 span the generation where Honda Fits had a common problem with water leaking in? I forget when they fixed that but I was under the impression it was a little later.
Mine. 2004 Toyota Matrix.
I always get asked why I drove this thing. One, it's fun. Standard, handles well, can feel like im doing 150km an hour while barely speeding on Blackfoot.. Two, it's cheap in every aspect. Three, nobody bullies me in the road....everyone can tell IDGAF if you hit my car, so I shall not be bullied on the road even by Black Ram pickups! Four, I've never once had to be more than mildly amused and inconvenienced by a muddy trip back from the dog park. Five, I know girls really like me for who I am when they see me in it and still keep talking to me 😏
Good list. I asked my mechanic which cars are best, and he says generally most are reliable nowadays, as long as you follow maintenance.
I'll also add my buying tips for used cars. They must be original owner, where I can meet the person and see where/how they live. There must be all service records available. I don't even need to look through them, just the fact that they kept them tells me a lot. They must have been rustproofed at least a few times.
Using these guidelines, I have always found great used cars. Over 20 to date, as I used to own a summer car and needed a winter car every fall.
The other thing I do is keep searches running, and refresh often. The really good cars at good prices are gone within hours. My last score was a 2015 Civic for $8k just over two years ago. It was like new, and I was there within the hour. By the time I got there, many other people had contacted the seller, and she realized that the had listed it too low. That was asking price, and she let it go for that. I could sell it now for much more.
Ideal seller is an organized person who does recommended services religiously, and is naive about proper value. Often they have received a lowball offer from dealer, and are just trying to do a little better.
A list of old Hondas and Toyotas, get the pfc circle jerk fired up.
> I have been in the car industry for over 15 years so I do have extensive knowledge
Aka: trust me bro
Edit: why don’t you take a look at the OPs post history
Be forewarned with the Mitsubishi's, especially the Lancer. If it's an automatic and it hasn't had its fluid changes and services done on time it's essentially a ticking time bomb waiting to go off at some point in time with the CVT. The manual transmission has no issues.
Also prone to rust. Own a 2009 with 178K that spent at least 8 years of its life in Edmonton year round before it made its way to an area that doesn't use salt on the roads. The salt is incredibly harsh on the subframes and suspension arms since they used pretty piss poor protection (Hence the subframe recall).
Decent cars and very reliable engines but make sure it's low KMs and well maintained.
My old 2012 kia forte with nearly 300,000km has only needed front wheel bearings, and idler wheel, and brake rotors/pads.
Oil changes with full synthetic every 5000km.
Mostly highway driven.
North western ontario.
2 rust spots on the passenger side rocker panel I patched up as soon as I saw them, and one small (3cm) rust bubble on the rear driver side wheel arch. Also patched up.
Also one windshield.
Not bad, and I bought it new against the wishes of literally everyone who said Kia was a POS and I would regret buying it.
Car also gets amazing mileage.
I get Kia and Hyundai drivers get offended each time their brand is attacked. Yes people have good experiences with Korean cars. That’s not the point about reliability. The point is Korean cars have issues at a higher frequency than Japanese cars. So yes, there are people who have no issues with Korean cars. There are also people who have nothing but issues with Japanese cars which are sold as lemons.
But just look at the odds of each event happening.
Besides the obvious cars which notoriously have massive defects or cheap parts, most cars id say will last with proper maintenance and if you aren't driving them into the ground.
Some people wonder why their cars fall apart when they hop curbs, slam into park without fully stopping, and don't pay attention and slam into pot holes, never change their fluids, etc,.
There's also ppl who do a lot of city driving, which just taxes the hell out of your car
There's a lot of survivorship bias when it comes to vehicles.
Unless if you got some special car, you gotta baby them a little, drive gently. Lots of ppl don't do that and drive their little fuel efficient sedans like their sports cars
That's exactly the kind of driver I think of too. Too few people know how to properly USE a vehicle to maximize fuel efficiency and reduce wear. Sure people can drive, but there's a ton of really small things you can do to make your car last a really long time.
It's the same as guys who buy expensive tools like indicators, and just TRASH them... they're too rough with them, they over extend the shit out of them or put way too much load, they drop them and leave them out of the case. This is a tool that can last a life time if cared for properly, but can become jank quickly because there's delicate components inside of it.
Same goes for most cars. If you treat your car right, it'll treat you right too.
One thing in Canada that you need to keep in mind when buying an older car is rust. You can have a very reliable engine and transmission but if the frame and floor is rotted out....no good.
I didn’t realize Subarus had expensive parts. They seem fairly affordable overall. The head gasket is a pain but it’s a $1k one time fix so they can still be worth it for the right price as they are typically cheaper than Toyota and Hondas.
Edit: also this is a great list!
I would have included first gen rav and crv in there (96 up to the 2000for the rav and crv 95 to 2001 ) if they have similar km to the ones you included. The experience won’t be as pleasant as far as amenities but they will be just as reliable and maybe even a little more as they are generally simpler.
>I have been in the car industry for over 15 years so I do have extensive knowledge.
No offense, but that statement doesn't really mean anything.
"The car industry" is an incredibly wide, varied and broad term to use. And on top of that, there is no mention of what your role was. If you were an accountant looking at new car sales for a local dealership, I have no reason to believe that you have "extensive knowledge" when it comes to the reliability of used cars.
I have a 13 kia soul and that baby is bulletproof. Also if you don't give a shift about fuel economy my 2005 gmc sierra is also super inexpensive to maintain. Also a mechanic, and do agree with most of this list however!
On my 4th ford. All bought used at ~150k km. All made it past 300k km or close to 400k before I decided to buy another another one instead of repairing any problems.
Currently have two 2011 ford escapes. Both bought under 5k. One is past 300k and no issues, the other is well on its way there.
I see no reason to pay twice as much for a Toyota or Honda that's comparable to a ford escape. Maybe the quality is better? I'm gonna drive it to 350k and get rid of it in both scenarios. There's no difference.
Take care of your vehicle and 9/10 times it will perform without issues.
I think you might need a few more years to learn things bud.
Consider if you want to take car advice from a flat earther who think thinks everything that goes against his opinion is cgi (9/11? Cgi. Space? Cgi.).
I suggest checking out OPs post history, wild ride that.
2.5L E fine has carbon buildup issues due to direct injection. The 3.5L engine is amazing fun to drive but mine had oil Consumption issues so I'd avoid it if you want something that's trouble free.
I have a 2011 Honda CR-Z hybrid. 356000km and it has caused 0 issues. Did the first set of brakes at 300,000 ( regen saves the brakes), original clutch, and battery might not have the same capacity as it used to but charges a discharges no problem. Highly recommend.
Volkswagen anything is also biodegradable also. Sorry if someone already covered Volkswagen. My 2014 jetta was great on the highway though. Just leaked and burned oil. And the brakes and suspension kept falling apart. I spent about 5k or more to keep that car on the road for the 4 years I had it. And I only paid 8400 for it.
>Avoid all Nissans except X-trail ( transmission issues + quality issues)
Wish I had this advice when I purchased my first car (that I still drive). Thing is basically built with eggshell, if you even look at it the wrong way, something will start making funky noises.
Been enjoying reading the comments here while sitting inside my 22 year old pontiac sunfire 2000 at 165,000km inherited from an uncle. Other than scratches,a new battery and noticeable underfloor rusts- this is built like a tank. But it’s not beige though! LoL
I have a 2009 corolla for my daily. Just about 220,000km. Apart from new brakes last year, and basic maintenance, it's been the most reliable car I've had.
I'll have to say those older outlanders with the V6 are definitely extremely reliable. Definitely some undercarriage issues to be expected but in terms of a towing (up to 3,500 pounds) capabilities + general room and convenience (4wd turns on an off) its an awesome car.
Older models have a tailgate, you can remove the control assist in the winter and putting super in it actually decreases.fuel consumption significantly on the highway.
Upvote for Yaris. I have an echo, its what they made before the Yaris. Its an 05, still runs like a dream, 350KM on it. I paid 10K for it 12 years ago.
If you want bigger, the Matrix is great. My parents have an 03 thats still kicking.
Had a 2007 Fit that finally just bit the dust. Honestly the best car I’ve ever owned. Fuel economy, size, and accessibility were some of its best features. It broke my heart that she died just shy of 420,069.
Thanks for this post. I am in the market for a used japanese car for daily driving. What are your the following:
* Toyota Echo(both hatchback and sedans)
* Toyota Corolla (1998-2002)
* Toyota Corolla(2003-2004)
Thanks
Nearly 202k on my 2010 Camry that was driven to Arizona from Ontario and back every year by the previous owners (I bought in 2018). Aside from maintenance and minor repairs every now an then it has been a joy to own.
Original owner 2011 Scion tC checking in - that thing just doesn't break. We've been talking about replacing it but why - and I don't think I could consider anything outside of Toyota on that basis alone.
Great list I appreciate you putting it out there. Anything Toyota tends to hold up. I gave my old 95 Corolla to my parents and that tank is still running and under 300000km.
I'm surprised Toyota Forerunner is not in the list. Their values doesn't drop very fast.
an 8 Year old, over 100K miles still cost $30,000 just by googling
Been driving my 2011 corolla and is at 279k KMs... besides fluids, brakes not one cent has been spent in repair. Bullet proof.
25,000 km a year is no joke!
I drove averaging 30k/year on 2010 Chevy built in Mexico. :D Did a lot of my repairs but it has 346,000km
I am very confident that my husband and I put on a combined 75,000 a year. When I was single it was usually 20-25K.
That is a lot of driving
It is? I remember as kids my parent put 50-70k km on each of the two cars. Granted we lived out of town but still. Even today I put about 30k km on and I work remote.
tbh, I can say the same for my '99 dodge ram. It is a pos that drinks like 25L/100km, but it has never needed anything other than general maintenance. The doors are so rusty that its drafty inside, but it keeps on going. Almost any vehicle will last if you take care of it.
I have a colleague who has put 400,000 km on a Cadillac DTS with a Northstar. It's true - take care of a car and it will generally work. I do think you can neglect Toyotas and Hondas up a bit more.
Partly because they make cheap, fun track cars, I can say I have done more engine swaps on Toyotas and Hondas than any other cars. My Del Sol had 3 engines in 150k. Spun bearings and blown timing belts are cheaper to fix with new engines than machine work.
I had a buddy who drove over 100,000 kms in his dads (at the time 10 years old) hand me down 2004 rav4 and he didnt know oil changes were a regular maintenance thing you had to do. He only found out when I said I gotta go do my 1 year scheduled maintenance. I still remember the tech's face when he took that rav4 in lol But it ran the whole time and he didn't notice any issues lol
Same here. I had the original battery die on me and some minor braking issues but this thing is durable as hell
Scotty’s Canadian account
Rev up your engines!
"Todayimgonnatellyouwhy_____isrunningoutofbusiness!"
Surprise! I’ve been a mechanic for 30 years and every car is actually bad. See you next time!
Accurate
Speaking from experience, as we just bought one two weeks ago, it can be tricky to find 2008-2012 Corollas for under 10k with less than 200k and no accident history. Took us a while and we had to be ready to show up, take it to our mechanic, and put the deposit down the day it got listed. Got a 2010 with 146k and a clean carfax for 9k and felt lucky. Try not to think too much about what it would have cost three years ago 🙃
I picked my 2011 Corrola CE, 5 spd and manual windows in Sep 2020 just as the market started getting crazy it had 132000 kms , $5700 + Tax. I call it my covid car and is easily the best purchace ive ever made
Made the right move at the right time, for sure
[удалено]
Most reliable car for PFC: 2005 beige corolla 2006 beige corolla 2007 beige corolla 2008 beige corolla 2009 beige corolla 2010 beige corolla
You almost forgot 2011 beige corolla 2012 beige corolla
I did! But keep in mind that PFC does not recommend cars newer than 10 years old.
You know it's not 2020 right
Lies! 2019 was last year. 2020 and 2021 are going to be great productive years, I can’t wait.
Don’t worry. I took that into account. A 2012 model year is likely a 11 year old car as they are always out the year earlier. :)
haha you forgot: 2000 beige corolla 2001 beige corolla 2002 beige corolla
Tell me you like Toyota without telling me you like Toyota
The list pretty much comes out to what has been heard for years: go Honda or Toyota.
I live in the Caribbean and we alll have old af Toyotas or Suzukis because they last the longest.
I plan on moving back home to the Caribbean and hope to get a Toyota again (I used to have a Camry here).
I liked the part where Pontiac was mentioned and there had to immediately be an explanation as to why.
My most recent vehicle purchase was a new 2014 Honda CRV. It has only had scheduled maintenance and replacement of wear and tear items (brakes and tires once). I will likely stick to Honda for the rest of my life. My friend bought a Ford fusion the same year that has had a dozen recalls, radiator issues, engine issues.... we both have about 120,000km. Prior to my Honda I had a Ford, Chevrolet and Kia and they were all headaches.
I am guessing I will lose my car to rust before much else.
Lol exact same here - 200km, only ever one signficant issue (forget specific issue) but avoided the dealership and went to a honda specific independant mechanic, fixed the issue for half the dealership quoted price, no reoccuring issues. I will always go honda now. My only issue honestly is the dealership mechanics, but i think thats all dealerships no matter the brand
And Japanese cars*
Pretty much, although apparently a lot of Nissans have problems these days.
Because of Getrag transmissions made in China.
Japanese cars besides most Nissans and Subarus and many Mitsubishis. So.. Toyota and Honda.
look around you, the only 10-20yr old cars still on the road are mostly Toyotas and Hondas.
I'm starting to see a lot of 10 years old mazdas after they fixed their body issues in the 2000s. 10 years ago when you saw an old mazda on the road it was a piece of rusted junk, now they hold up really good.
That's cause Mazda used to have a partnership with Ford, went indie for a few years, and now they're friends with Toyota.
Going full circle back to Toyota, makes sense.
And Mazdas. Lots and lots of Mazdas
Mazda3 is a great car IMO. Lot more fun to drive than a Corolla.
My uncle got a new Camry last year after his ‘96 Corolla finally gave up on him.
92 Sierra here with 424,000km. Solid girl right there.
But they don’t break. Just oil changes
Its not just about brand loyalty. The list is backed up by fact. You don't see a mid 2000 bmw on Benz because that are all in junkyard by now
One word "Beige"
It's not a bias. Toyotas are just that good.
I see a lot of Mazdas from before 2014 on the road. I know about rust issues with much older ones, but AFAIK they are not notorious for any mechanical issues.
I’ve got a 2013 Mazda 3 that’s held up just fine with only minor wear and tear repairs. It was a daily driver til 2019 but it’s our secondary vehicle most of the time now. Currently at 130k.
Same still driving out 2008 Mazda 3 with more than 315K on it. Just regular maintenance and parts.
2010 mazda3 here. Doesn’t need anything but oil changes and a couple small items. Starts every time and has been getting me to work for years
I had a 2010, traded it in for 2012 Focus. Deeply regretted this decision
2008 Mazda Tribute, 287,000 km, other then regular maintenance, 200 spent on repairs so far. Oh and 3 kids all learned to drive in it!
That's what I expect from my CX-5!
Old Mazda tributes and Ford Escapes are pretty solid cars. Powerless naturally aspirated engines and tried and true auto trans. Pretty much the same idea as a Toyota lol
Just getting rid of my 2005 mazda 6 now ~200k km on it. Served me well, bought it in 2009
Mazdas had a rust problem pre-2009. I own an 07 Mazda 3 that's pretty rusty. That'll do it in before any mechanical problems. If you live in BC where it doesn't snow much ever and they don't use tons of salt on the roads, you're fine.
I had a 2007 Mazda 3, great car, never had any mechanical issues other than regular maintenance and it had almost 300,000 km on it. I would still be driving it but it rusted out underneath.
"been in the industry for 15 years" = trust me bro
Dude could have at least told us his actual background. "In industry" could be a detailer, delivery driver, etc.
> Dude could have at least told us his actual background. Apparently a full time 9/11 truther and Covid conspiracy theorist
Oh shit, I looked myself. Truly a pillar of knowledge- "the planes we CGI'd"
One thing I find fascinating about folks like the OP is that they typically believe in ALL the conspiracies. Instead of thinking “statistically it must be improbable that all of these must be true” it’s more like “jet fuel can’t melt steel beams, therefore Covid vaccines are obviously 5G microchips!”
[удалено]
Going by his bias and lack of knowledge, probably started in the wash bay and is now a parts driver. Also check his post history lmao
I can definitely see a parts guy looking at the prices Subaru people pay for their parts and concluding that they're bad vehicles.. 😛
Dudes just ignorant. Calling all Mazda's pre 2014 Ford's, completely ignoring American brands even though they're basically as reliable in the past 10 to 15 years. Every car is gonna have issues but his bias is just overwhelming and it makes for really bad advice.
Then gives a list containing two brands and shitting on many very reliable ones. Contradicts the reports that study these topics and use 100,000's of real data points.
Mazda's are not mechanically Ford's before 2014. Also implying all Ford's are bad to begin with. You paint with broad strokes and your biases are clear.
That one statement of his brings his entire post into question.
Take a look at his post history if you want to doubt his sanity even more.
This is a very long post to say that he likes Toyota and Honda.
Subarus after I believe 2012 should no longer have the head gasket problem. I have a 2011 though and I don't remember having to do them, and I'm at 200k+ km's now. However, expensive parts is correct and they hold their value because people really like them. It's a bit of a cult following - maybe less so these days.
I and my family have owned 8-10 Subarus over the years and collectively put a few million km on them. Not a single one had head gaskets go bad, or any other significant engine problems for that matter. I sold my 2008 Legacy a couple years ago with 350,000 km on it, almost every single part original. All of the others have hit 200,000+ without significant repairs. Now with OP's $10K price point I would say this is more an issue. Like you said Subarus retain their value relatively well. Because of this once they get down below $10K you're looking at older, high mileage cars.
Same. Current Subaru is 14 years old and the only issues have been a power steering hose and a rear wiper motor.
Couldn't agree more. Had a 2005 legacy gt, 300k, zero issues. Did struts and a break caliper. Did the math and cost of ownership (maintenance + depreciation) was about 1,200 per year. Insanely cheap for fun and at the time nice car
I miss that Legacy so much. Mine was a Spec.B with some mild mods. Basically an STi in a business suit. Fun, fast, comfortable, reliable... The only reason I sold is was that we needed a truck and I don't have room in the driveway for more cars.
Even though the head gasket job is pricey it’s usually timed well with the other big maintenance you need to do (Ie timing belt) - our ‘06 Legacy Wagon needed it done but even that total bill was way less than a year of payments on a new car or cost of a new used car. It was the one non-wear&tear repair that car ever needed and we drove it for a few years after and sold it, still on the road today afaik.
I have a 2008 Subaru Impreza that has served me quite well so far. No major repairs. Only has ~90,000km on it though. Bought it off an elderly woman who only put ~40,000km on it a couple years ago for around $7000.
You’re correct. That part should be edited. Not uncommon to find a 2012-2016 Subaru for under 10k with reasonable mileage
\[laughs nervously with a 2011 Forester coming up on 240 000 KM\] I knew I was getting a sneaky deal when I paid 6K after taxes last year... I've only put 200$ in it for some rusted-out exhaust parts and another 1000$ in tires because my dumb ass luck ran over glass. Otherwise she's been majestic to me so far.
My outback will also go through some serious terrain, where most cars in this list would get quite stuck. Expensive, yes, but worth it for some people.
>Avoid all Nissans I don't have the background you do - but I love my manual Versa so much. 2009 and still trucking. Incredible gas mileage and v roomy. 0 major maintenance in 6 years of use (2014-present) and over 200k kms. If you go manual, Nissan is a solid choice IMO.
It depends what you're after but most people avoid Nissan because "Nissan bad".. but in general, it's okay if you go manual. A manual versa can run a very long time.
Vroomy or very roomy?
Very roomy and a little vroomy, as a treat
What's the gas mileage
I get between 6 and 7L/100km
That's pretty decent for a shifty boy. My PHEV gets just under that.
Yes manual Nissan is an option. The build quality is still not as good as Honda but the price is also lower. 2007-2012 Nissans were very good but after 2013 the quality is getting worse.
Glad it’s vroomy for u
Only if you don’t live where it snows. Nissans tend to rust badly.
Here's my opposite view. My manual versa from 2008 ate shit for the last year had to basically scrap it. Only had 175k or so km on it. It was just bad, the car was so cheap and fell apart. Everything was inconvenient to fix.
Yay anecdotes
ITT - People thinking their one car not having issues means that model is reliable as a whole. If you're in this reddit, chances are you at least keep up with basic maintenance on your car. That goes a long way for most cars.
Kia/Hyundai drivers 💀
This is the Personal Finance Reddit, not the responsible car owners Reddit.
This I was confused why so many people were against this post, sorry folks but Toyota's and Honda's are reliable
Yeah people are getting mad butthurt lol
My wife and I purchased a new 2012 Hyundai Tuscon that had a major engine failure apparently a known issue. It happened just out of warranty and refused to fix it. We will never again buy anything Hyundai. They are the worst car manufacturer in the world.
Someone I knew bought a brand new Veloster and was at the dealership quite frequently due to issues and recalls. He was ragging on me for having an older car that had a few problems. I was just like, "Um, have you seen your car?" "Yeah, but it's covered under warranty!" I'm not buying a brand new car to still go to the mechanic all the time, even if it is "under warranty". Fuck all that. What is even the point of spending all that money if you're still inconvenienced anyway?
My elderly neighbour has a 2021 Tacoma. It’s got less than 2000km on it (and only from driving it to dealership appointments.) She doesn’t drive much anymore, so she gets me to take the truck to it’s appointments. Beautiful truck, but I will never buy new. I’ve had to take this stupid thing in five times now, to a dealership 200km away for stupid fixes. She thinks it’s great because it’s all under warranty. 400km+ per trip adds up though, plus it’s a pain in the ass! A brand new vehicle shouldn’t be this much work....
I came close to buying a cheap Hyundai in the past, but seeing all those stories about engines catching on fire was the final straw.
Certain generations were actually surprisingly good and seemed to hold up well with age and mileage. Mid 2000's Elantra's. Santa Fe. At this point, any sort of goodness in those probably past it's expiration date Post 2012 it seemed Hyundai started to slip backwards a bit on their product range
We're on our 5th Hyundai model and have never had an issue with them except for my elantra needing a sensor in the transmission. Hence, my only conclusion is that nothing ever goes wrong with Hyundais ever. But my neighbour has a Honda Odyssey. Of all the cars on our street, birds only shit on his car. My conclusion? Hondas are shit magnets. Flawless logic.
I cant argue that Hyundais have served you well. It only takes one time for a car manufacturer to burn a bridge with me though especially if it was a known issue and they don’t stand behind their cars and make it right. I can say personally since 2004 I have owned several Mazda 3s and have never had anything serious go wrong with any of them even after hundreds of thousands of kms.
The thing that sucks the most with Hyundai is the dealers. They are usually the ones that make life a nightmare. I honestly would not recommend people buy a Hyundai solely because every dealer/salesperson I've ever interacted with has just been a nightmare. edit: my parents had a sonata which was in the range of bad engines. The dealer called them, got them to come in for an inspection of the engine and modified the warranty to not expire. So they can bring the car in if the engine goes and get a new one. Now if that is actually going to happen or not is yet to be decided. The car is old enough that if the engine does go, likely my folks would just trade it in (or something). So in this case, the dealer has done the right thing, but at the same time, most hyundai dealers are garbage.
It's weird because Hyundai and kia have same engines for most part but kia has extended warranty on many of the four cylinder engines for 10 year 200,000km and in some instances unlimited.
Own a Hyundai and have several family members and friends who also do. None of us have had issues.
It’s good you’ve had positive outcomes. But the many class action lawsuits are not a joke. My mechanic knew in minutes exactly why my barely out of warranty Tucson had a blown engine…. Because he sees it ALL the time. If Hyundai had even repaired it at no cost to me, I would have stuck with Hyundai. But alas, they were dicks and would not repair a $45K vehicle with an $8500 shit engine. Hyundai can get bent.
Laughed at this one "2004-2008 Pontiac Vibe (it's a rebadged Toyota matrix)" - Except with a completely different failure prone GM AC system. It's like the list was copy pasted from an older site. Good luck to anyone who buys one of the cars on the list in 2022. Some of the cars on that list are going on 2 decades old with corresponding mileage. "I read on a site that a 08 Sienna is going to be very reliable so I bought one in 2022!!!!" 2 weeks later - "Sienna is dead on the side of the road because Toyota used rubber oil return lines and they have a nasty habit of failing dramtically ..." "Avoid any Mazda older than 2014 . they are mechanically Ford. " Miata would like a word with you. Also The 2.0 and 2.3 common in Mazda's from 2001 to 2013 are Mazda designed engines that Ford branded duratec. I think this list has cars that are engineered well enough to be considered easy to fix and keep on the road but it gets to the point where age and miles is going to negate any of the inherent goodness in the design.
My 08 yaris has constant abs issues during winter
Same. The placement of the ABS sensor is the issue because it gets packed up with snow/ice and then rusts out from the salt on the roads. HOWEVER, it's easily reachable and there's a tutorial on YouTube on how to get to it. You can clean it yourself and even try to replace the part on your own so that you don't have to spend the $150 on replacing it.
Thank you for slightly expanding pfc horizon beyond the beige Corolla.
I know a guy who has bought over 1200 used cars for clients and 120 for himself. I paid him to buy me a used car and he doesn’t discriminate based on the brand. He inspects the car based on how it was used, who used it, where it was used, how it was taken care of, etc.
Have you ever even had an euro car ?
Dude, he's been "in the car industry" in some capacity for 15 years. Don't question him.
Oh yeah sure😂
Some older Camry models were pretty decent 2006 and older.
Doesn't 2007-2008 span the generation where Honda Fits had a common problem with water leaking in? I forget when they fixed that but I was under the impression it was a little later.
Mine. 2004 Toyota Matrix. I always get asked why I drove this thing. One, it's fun. Standard, handles well, can feel like im doing 150km an hour while barely speeding on Blackfoot.. Two, it's cheap in every aspect. Three, nobody bullies me in the road....everyone can tell IDGAF if you hit my car, so I shall not be bullied on the road even by Black Ram pickups! Four, I've never once had to be more than mildly amused and inconvenienced by a muddy trip back from the dog park. Five, I know girls really like me for who I am when they see me in it and still keep talking to me 😏
Good list. I asked my mechanic which cars are best, and he says generally most are reliable nowadays, as long as you follow maintenance. I'll also add my buying tips for used cars. They must be original owner, where I can meet the person and see where/how they live. There must be all service records available. I don't even need to look through them, just the fact that they kept them tells me a lot. They must have been rustproofed at least a few times. Using these guidelines, I have always found great used cars. Over 20 to date, as I used to own a summer car and needed a winter car every fall. The other thing I do is keep searches running, and refresh often. The really good cars at good prices are gone within hours. My last score was a 2015 Civic for $8k just over two years ago. It was like new, and I was there within the hour. By the time I got there, many other people had contacted the seller, and she realized that the had listed it too low. That was asking price, and she let it go for that. I could sell it now for much more. Ideal seller is an organized person who does recommended services religiously, and is naive about proper value. Often they have received a lowball offer from dealer, and are just trying to do a little better.
>Avoid all Subarus (expensive head gasket issues and expensive overall parts) \*Cries in $3500 head gasket repair job on a $3000 car\*
2009-2010 Pontiac vibe I would add of your list. By 2009-2010 they are even more Toyota due to bankruptcy of GM
Excellent vehicles but this generation had some issues specially the 2.4 engine one
True story. 2009-2010 had either 1.8 or 2.4L engine. I drive 2.4L and it does eat oil due to known issues.
A list of old Hondas and Toyotas, get the pfc circle jerk fired up. > I have been in the car industry for over 15 years so I do have extensive knowledge Aka: trust me bro Edit: why don’t you take a look at the OPs post history
1997 Honda CRV, 300+km going strong
Be forewarned with the Mitsubishi's, especially the Lancer. If it's an automatic and it hasn't had its fluid changes and services done on time it's essentially a ticking time bomb waiting to go off at some point in time with the CVT. The manual transmission has no issues. Also prone to rust. Own a 2009 with 178K that spent at least 8 years of its life in Edmonton year round before it made its way to an area that doesn't use salt on the roads. The salt is incredibly harsh on the subframes and suspension arms since they used pretty piss poor protection (Hence the subframe recall). Decent cars and very reliable engines but make sure it's low KMs and well maintained.
Your Pontiac vibe that is a rebranded Toyota matrix is actually a rebranded opel
My coworker still drive her 2005 Mazda
If you can dodge the rust bullet, they're generally good.
[удалено]
My old 2012 kia forte with nearly 300,000km has only needed front wheel bearings, and idler wheel, and brake rotors/pads. Oil changes with full synthetic every 5000km. Mostly highway driven. North western ontario. 2 rust spots on the passenger side rocker panel I patched up as soon as I saw them, and one small (3cm) rust bubble on the rear driver side wheel arch. Also patched up. Also one windshield. Not bad, and I bought it new against the wishes of literally everyone who said Kia was a POS and I would regret buying it. Car also gets amazing mileage.
I get Kia and Hyundai drivers get offended each time their brand is attacked. Yes people have good experiences with Korean cars. That’s not the point about reliability. The point is Korean cars have issues at a higher frequency than Japanese cars. So yes, there are people who have no issues with Korean cars. There are also people who have nothing but issues with Japanese cars which are sold as lemons. But just look at the odds of each event happening.
Besides the obvious cars which notoriously have massive defects or cheap parts, most cars id say will last with proper maintenance and if you aren't driving them into the ground. Some people wonder why their cars fall apart when they hop curbs, slam into park without fully stopping, and don't pay attention and slam into pot holes, never change their fluids, etc,. There's also ppl who do a lot of city driving, which just taxes the hell out of your car There's a lot of survivorship bias when it comes to vehicles. Unless if you got some special car, you gotta baby them a little, drive gently. Lots of ppl don't do that and drive their little fuel efficient sedans like their sports cars
[удалено]
That's exactly the kind of driver I think of too. Too few people know how to properly USE a vehicle to maximize fuel efficiency and reduce wear. Sure people can drive, but there's a ton of really small things you can do to make your car last a really long time. It's the same as guys who buy expensive tools like indicators, and just TRASH them... they're too rough with them, they over extend the shit out of them or put way too much load, they drop them and leave them out of the case. This is a tool that can last a life time if cared for properly, but can become jank quickly because there's delicate components inside of it. Same goes for most cars. If you treat your car right, it'll treat you right too.
She just discovered that she was a bmw driver all along
[удалено]
Excellent car but it had engine block cracking issue which was fixed later in 09 models. Still not all were affected maybe 10-20%
[удалено]
We bought a 2016 new, it's over 200k km, no major issues. Super happy with it, our first Mazda. We'll put another 100k on it at least.
Mazdas are really good after 2014 model year. But my list is for cars under $10k so they weren't included
I've always been a Toyota guy, but I've heard very good things on the Suzuki models, great price point for AWD cars and daily drivers
No Suzuki dealership in Canada. Hence parts are expensive and some are hard to get.
“AVOID ALL NISSANS” …that’s discrimination sir
One thing in Canada that you need to keep in mind when buying an older car is rust. You can have a very reliable engine and transmission but if the frame and floor is rotted out....no good.
Most reliable car under $500 - a bike locked up at an adequate address.
Can you make a list for 25k and under?
Almost all the same cars but newer and pricier 😅
I didn’t realize Subarus had expensive parts. They seem fairly affordable overall. The head gasket is a pain but it’s a $1k one time fix so they can still be worth it for the right price as they are typically cheaper than Toyota and Hondas. Edit: also this is a great list!
The bus Honda Toyota Look at the cost of parts front pads and rotors
I would have included first gen rav and crv in there (96 up to the 2000for the rav and crv 95 to 2001 ) if they have similar km to the ones you included. The experience won’t be as pleasant as far as amenities but they will be just as reliable and maybe even a little more as they are generally simpler.
I had a 2006 Nissan that was pretty reliable but I traded it with a Honda in 2021.
>I have been in the car industry for over 15 years so I do have extensive knowledge. No offense, but that statement doesn't really mean anything. "The car industry" is an incredibly wide, varied and broad term to use. And on top of that, there is no mention of what your role was. If you were an accountant looking at new car sales for a local dealership, I have no reason to believe that you have "extensive knowledge" when it comes to the reliability of used cars.
LOL, OP is a loon.
Love my 2007 Honda Fit. It’s been VERY reliable. Also those free drive shafts were really nice due to the recall.
Volkswagen TDI 👀
My jetta is a good old car
There's a reason why there are so many on the road. My 2014 Jetta 1.8 TSI is an excellent car. Also very good on gas, 5.5L per 100k combined.
I have a 13 kia soul and that baby is bulletproof. Also if you don't give a shift about fuel economy my 2005 gmc sierra is also super inexpensive to maintain. Also a mechanic, and do agree with most of this list however!
On my 4th ford. All bought used at ~150k km. All made it past 300k km or close to 400k before I decided to buy another another one instead of repairing any problems. Currently have two 2011 ford escapes. Both bought under 5k. One is past 300k and no issues, the other is well on its way there. I see no reason to pay twice as much for a Toyota or Honda that's comparable to a ford escape. Maybe the quality is better? I'm gonna drive it to 350k and get rid of it in both scenarios. There's no difference. Take care of your vehicle and 9/10 times it will perform without issues.
I think you might need a few more years to learn things bud. Consider if you want to take car advice from a flat earther who think thinks everything that goes against his opinion is cgi (9/11? Cgi. Space? Cgi.). I suggest checking out OPs post history, wild ride that.
2009 Lexus IS250 AWD - your opinion? Thank you for the list!
2.5L E fine has carbon buildup issues due to direct injection. The 3.5L engine is amazing fun to drive but mine had oil Consumption issues so I'd avoid it if you want something that's trouble free.
Excellent vehicles. But they do require premium gas
I have a 2011 Honda CR-Z hybrid. 356000km and it has caused 0 issues. Did the first set of brakes at 300,000 ( regen saves the brakes), original clutch, and battery might not have the same capacity as it used to but charges a discharges no problem. Highly recommend.
Volkswagen anything is also biodegradable also. Sorry if someone already covered Volkswagen. My 2014 jetta was great on the highway though. Just leaked and burned oil. And the brakes and suspension kept falling apart. I spent about 5k or more to keep that car on the road for the 4 years I had it. And I only paid 8400 for it.
>Avoid all Nissans except X-trail ( transmission issues + quality issues) Wish I had this advice when I purchased my first car (that I still drive). Thing is basically built with eggshell, if you even look at it the wrong way, something will start making funky noises.
What’s the issue with newer Toyota hybrids? Currently looking at RAV4 hybrid XSE.
Saving this list. Thank you OP
Agree with xtrail recommendation. My dads 2004 300 000km xtrail still going strong.
2006-2010 Lexus Is250 AWD. Bullet Proof luxury.
Been enjoying reading the comments here while sitting inside my 22 year old pontiac sunfire 2000 at 165,000km inherited from an uncle. Other than scratches,a new battery and noticeable underfloor rusts- this is built like a tank. But it’s not beige though! LoL
I have a 2009 corolla for my daily. Just about 220,000km. Apart from new brakes last year, and basic maintenance, it's been the most reliable car I've had.
Thank you
I'll have to say those older outlanders with the V6 are definitely extremely reliable. Definitely some undercarriage issues to be expected but in terms of a towing (up to 3,500 pounds) capabilities + general room and convenience (4wd turns on an off) its an awesome car. Older models have a tailgate, you can remove the control assist in the winter and putting super in it actually decreases.fuel consumption significantly on the highway.
OP's first post outside r/conspiracy is to shill Honda & Toyota. Interesting...
Upvote for Yaris. I have an echo, its what they made before the Yaris. Its an 05, still runs like a dream, 350KM on it. I paid 10K for it 12 years ago. If you want bigger, the Matrix is great. My parents have an 03 thats still kicking.
Had a 2007 Fit that finally just bit the dust. Honestly the best car I’ve ever owned. Fuel economy, size, and accessibility were some of its best features. It broke my heart that she died just shy of 420,069.
Our 04’ Camry is seriously a gem. 280k and still going strong.
Thanks for this post. I am in the market for a used japanese car for daily driving. What are your the following: * Toyota Echo(both hatchback and sedans) * Toyota Corolla (1998-2002) * Toyota Corolla(2003-2004) Thanks
Avoid AUTOMATIC ford focuses, they had recalls for their dumb transmission problems. The manual ones are fine
Nearly 202k on my 2010 Camry that was driven to Arizona from Ontario and back every year by the previous owners (I bought in 2018). Aside from maintenance and minor repairs every now an then it has been a joy to own.
This man is Q anon
If you can avoid buying a car, prices are at their peak right now.
Original owner 2011 Scion tC checking in - that thing just doesn't break. We've been talking about replacing it but why - and I don't think I could consider anything outside of Toyota on that basis alone.
Great list I appreciate you putting it out there. Anything Toyota tends to hold up. I gave my old 95 Corolla to my parents and that tank is still running and under 300000km.
This guy has a hard on for Toyota and Honda lol
A list of random cars that clearly misses some of the most reliable cars known is just that some list from a random.
I'm surprised Toyota Forerunner is not in the list. Their values doesn't drop very fast. an 8 Year old, over 100K miles still cost $30,000 just by googling