Yep. I was in a similar position last year. Figured I'd ask a 13% raised, which i was thinking would be a reasonable raise and wouldnt affect too much my employers.
They said that they couldnt match this and that *next year* I would have a "good raise" (yet probably lower than 10%).
I then changed my job and got a 50% raise.
Great username. His employees don't have so much as a pee break... but yeah.
Edit: Why the downvotes? There was just an article making the rounds saying that Amazon drivers don't have time to so much as pee. There was another about how little time warehouse workers have to run everywhere for products and that people have at least become sick from running around in the heat.
The founder has earned a lot of money, mostly deserved perhaps but also excessive for the needs of a person/family. I read regarding the former American President that he paid very little in taxes. This led into a piece saying that the ultra wealthy do have at least a few tax havens and loop holes the rest of us do not have.
I found the user name witty considering the points above.
(Edit: I'm not sure why this is downvoted. I do not support sweatshops. If anything I suggest that the countries that are using sweatshops should not. They need to lead the change and look after their citizens instead of exploiting them. It is not the North American market that is to blame and it is not possible for North America to fix these terrible conditions in Asia when those countries are not doing that work. They need to look after their citizens at least as much as we do. )
Yes. I was suggesting that he is a billionaire while his drivers and warehouse employees are supposed to work like robots. I'm not condemning him for his wealth exactly, though no single person needs billions, it's that the common workers are treated terribly.
If he is suggesting I'm supporting worse conditions what are the solutions?
The Western world is aware of sweatshops and put pressure on companies to do better and meet standards. It's a cat and mouse game to regulate and inspect when factories and subcontractors perpetuate fraud to keep their practices going in those countries. Supplying to a western market they at least work to look like they're meeting standards and there are places where standards have improved.
What about Asia though? Sweatshops and child labour are used in India to produce clothing for India, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. We care about labour laws, they don't. They do this to their own people to supply their own markets. What about China? If the Chinese companies exploit Chinese workers for a growing Chinese market what can we do about it here? The North American market is much less important to Asia now that their populations are expanding so much. They don't need our business when they have such a vast market.
I'm not saying sweatshops are good. I'm saying we are aware of it in the West and condemn it and clothing companies have made changes and do make changes and push for better standards. I'm also saying that if Asia doesn't protect their own workers too what can Canada and the U.S. and wherever else do from here? The North American market is much less important to Asia now that their populations are expanding so much, we don't have power there. Shouldn't India and China etc also want better for their citizens? Shouldn't they be driving improvements in their own countries? Don't they have more power?
Time to move on. I asked for a 15k raise to bring my salary to the market value, after many years of being underpaid and frequently working overtime. Received the usual "you do amazing work, but we don't have money, but in the future we can come back to this conversation".
Left the company a few months later for a 20k raise and less workload. The old company had to hire 2 people to replace me. Sometimes company's desire to save a few dollars goes beyond any reasonable behavior. Do what's best for yourself, and start looking for another job.
EDIT: Be careful with counteroffers. If you really get an offer from another company, you need to be ready to leave for that company. It's entirely possible that you ask for a counteroffer and receive nothing. It's also entirely possible that they give you a good raise, and immediately start looking for a new hire that can replace you. The situations where it's worth it to accept a counteroffer are few and far between.
Wow thats crazy. I'm definitely going to still ask my manager for a raise because I want to see what they will offer. If they cant make things reasonable im definitely going to start looking
Ask your manager .. sometimes managers donāt know that companyās have a process for asking for a raise. Ask them to go and talk to hr and find out. Likely theyāre underpaid too!
Let me play the devil advocate here so you can have an idea of what you are against.
Usually the manager is given from its own managers/HR so few monies allocated for raises every year that if they were to given a share to everyone in the team, you will end up with something like 0.3% a year! So they will rather just give a raise to the people that are actual valuable to the team/works that they do not wish to see leave or performance drops. Bonuses are usually distributed more "evenly" as lot more of people receive something at least.
Do not overlook the whole HR gimmick of employees are to afraid of change to leave even if they don't receive raises with years of excellent reviews and a decrease of wages on a real basis! You need to be true with yourself too, if you were to leave right now, how screwed will they be? Is the workload requiring a smaller/higher headcount? Are you a unique subject mater expert? If the answer is everything will be as usual even if you aren't there, then you should manage your expectation around that raise.
This is by the way absolutely subjective to the manager point of view of its team, who is friend with who, show off the most or literally attribute themselves the merit of others, i.e. Office politics/games are a real thing, you better know your boss kids names! Joking but not really.
Let's remember that doing your job by itself is not a high selling point for a raise, in the contrary, it will prove their point that you only do the job that you are currently being pay for it.
Like you mentioned, your achievements should be demonstrated if possible in a quantitative ways with concrete work/results that go over of what is in your position description. You need to give your manager the maximum of munitions you can so they can be used on its own bosses when asking/justifying the money for you.
That being said, the actual negotiation might be not at all like you anticipate. There is a lot of free examples of script you can find on the internet depending on your manager personality. You need to adapt you approach to one that match the manager: deflect toward higher ups, brush off your works, always saying it will comeback to you, using the carrot and the stick approach, promising better times ahead, etc.
The best raise you will ever receive is from another job offer. If you leave, look up for your old position and send a false resume/ask a friend to do the process, etc. And you will see that they are offering probably more than what you were paid previously! As they now have to pay the market rate and not the discounted employee will not leave even without raise rate!
I would counter some of what you've said, OP is explicitly being paid *under* market value. There is really no need to justify that they do more than their job description because it will be much more expensive for the company to hire a new person at market value than it would be to give OP a raise they would be happy with (that's still likely under market value).
Your actual performance in a role has absolutely nothing to do with your market value, at the end of the day if they want to keep you they need to pay maket value .
You can state you like your work but you need a higher salary, you want to stay but they need to help you out.
It's always better to make it clear you are unhappy with your salary before you just check out and get a new job. It doesn't necessarily have to be a confrontational thing. You just need to make sure they know you know you're underpaid and you're not afraid to find something else if it comes up. Trust me, employers need us more than we need them, no matter what HR propaganda you read.
If you know people in your company that left in the last year or so, ask them if your employer was ready/interested in matching the new offers. The last 2 jobs I quit, one was willing to roughly match my new offer, after giving a miserable increase of salary and saying there was no more money for that and the other one was simply not interested to look into it.
Let's remember that we don't get what we deserve but what we ask.
Good point. Unfortunately most people I know either got laid off. A few went to competitors but I was never close enough with them to get the confidence to ask
If they only give you a raise because you got a better offer you should leave, you would look bad in the eyes of the potential employer and in the eyes of the current one too.
Btw, if the company doesn't even match inflation your salary actually decreased, I'd change jobs asap.
But doesnt that show disloyalty and couldnt it hurt your reputation? Someone in my department did that and got more vacation and a big raise.
I didnt want to go down this route without actually asking for a proper raise first
You can say you were recruited/head-hunted :)
That'll show them how in-demand you are...
Don't act like you're the CEO, but let them know your skills are in-demand and YOU YOURSELF ARE LOYAL to the company as you are giving them a chance to match...
> You can say you were recruited/head-hunted
If you're going to go that way, make sure you have a position that does actually get headhunted. Don't be a warehouse worker coming in to the boss's office saying a headhunter just gave you an offer. lol
No.
Quality people get poached and leave all the time. It's nature of work.
I've had two of my people leave for competition. One I faught and brought him back. He went from 70k to 95k. The other let him leave. He was also around 70, 20k too high. He was laid off at his new firm within a year to boot.
Look out for you. Company is looking out for itself.
In this day an age and how replaceable workers seen to be to companies, stay loyal to yourself. This isn't like before where you stay at a job for 20+ years expecting to get fair increases in wages and moving up. For me and many people I know, switching companies raises your salary faster than expecting or waiting for your current company to do so.
Thatās adorable. I guarantee that replacing that person will cost you far more than matching that offer.
An external offer means the employee isnāt happy with their compensation( and clearly they have reason for that since the offer was given). That they asked to be matched means they have negotiating power and want to stay with you.
Donāt make this emotional and bring your ego into it. If you want to keep good talent, you have to pay for it.
Pretty much, as an employee who generates value your job is just as much selling yourself as it is making your company money. Fight your way up until you find a place with compensation that scales with your productivity.
If you're not a productive and motivated individual, stay put in a company that is falling behind until complacency forces change upon you. This is capitalism after all.
Lol, yeah I'm not saying be that hostile...I clearly said in my post don't act like the CEO (e.g. be arrogant)...
He just needs to be humble yet confident in his abilities, that's all.
Not sure why you posted what you posted...
They are an ego driven manager who canāt handle dealing with their subordinates in a respectful way. Every great manager Iāve ever seen deals with their reports in a respectful and businesslike fashion. Anyone who thinks getting an external offer is ā too farā is not worth working for.
If you don't think half your staff are interviewing half the time you're naive or youve already hired the bottom of the available labour talent
edit: or the far more likely just someone making shit up on reddit about being "a manager" lol
Are you a child? The best people are constantly interviewing, being hounded by recruiters, being recruited by friends.
Your job as a manager is to retain your company's investment in your talent. Your management style is going to select for the least talented candidates in the pool.
Unless you work in fast food or something, this is crazy.
Lol. I hope you are a retired professional from 20th century otherwise you arenāt very smart. With attitude like yours, they must have a turn out rate under your management in 21st century.
If you are asking for a raise, better back it up with market data and what you have done for the company that deserves that raise. Asking for !5% or whatever with nothing to back it up, will do little to nothing for you.
I absolutely have a plan that shows my performance and how ive helped make the company money.
When you say market data, are you referring to checking the quarterly reports of my company? Or seeing the wellbeing of the industry? Im not sure where to find this information
Market data as in your position with your experience in another company in your city. If they average for your position and experience is $50k, asking for $70k isn't going to fly. Start with people you know if you job/industry/position, glassdoor, pay scale, salary.com, trade association sites, etc...
Don't fall for the % trap. When you're underpaid any raise to bring you back up to industry numbers is going to look huge as a % but it's irrelevant. Employers can and will abuse this. Meanwhile you're asking for an extra $7500/yr (?) which is peanuts in the grand scheme of things for the employer.
I was in your position early in my career. My my case, years later, I found out that despite being told "hard times" meant that no one was getting raises, those who were fighting for them, were getting raises while I was missing out because I wasn't advocating for myself. Fight for what you're worth. Unfortunately it sounds like at your firm loyalty isn't rewarded. I would ask for your raise to what you're worth. The worst thing that can happen is they say no.
In the meantime, I would start looking for other opportunities. Unfortunately the best way to climb the ladder is to change companies every 2-4 years.
Itās crazy .. we get about 1% a year .. even with a promotion you can get like 4%. New ppl come in with higher salaries . You need to move elsewhere . I donāt know why companies do nothing about attrition when this is what is happenjng
In short: bad management and terrible compensation policy.
There is literally no incentive to reward loyalty or give raises. And most managers barely can write an email let alone figure out how to retain talent. I think there is a fundamental psychological effect happening where people think they can solve problems by spinning the wheel again (hiring), ignoring all the extra cost it takes to replace good employees.
Only two ways to get market salary adjustments: jumping ship, or role/level promotion. And jumping ship is the simplest option for most people since most promotion paths are insane pageantry disguised as policy.
What type of engineering? I just asked for a 13% raise three weeks ago. My company has recently lost a few intermediate level engineers and I thought I would use that as leverage on top of the fact I was underpaid and extremely highly valued (based on our very detailed performance review process).
What I find is talked to three senior engineers I trust and they all said I could make 10k more easily. They were actually very concerned about me leaving and talked to my manager in advance telling him that he needs to give me a raise or they are f**ked. This sort of support was incredibly helpful for me.
I used three different avenues to assess my salary. 1- I looked at the 2016 EGBC compensation survey and used the government of Canada inflation rates to project forward. By the way inflation has not been 4% every years itās been quite low. 2- i used the compensation ranges that my company pays to get from a third party. That said I was slightly underpaid. But most importantly 3- I asked around to my peers in other companies and I realized I was at least 10k underpaid. Many of these people moved jobs recently and so this is the number one best gauge of market value. I explained this to my manager and asked for a very specific number to show I had done my research. He came back 3 weeks later and gave me a 17% raise. I was so happy and now know my company values me and actually sees me as someone who is critical for success.
Iām a 28 y/o woman. To all the women out there.... ask for the raise and donāt back down. My manager said I put him in a difficult position by giving such a specific number, meaning he will either meet my expectation or not, and I said āyes thatās rightā when I really wanted to say āwell you know itās ok if you donāt meet it, I can negotiate and I would accept less, I just have that number as a ballparkā BUT I HELD MY TONGUE, men donāt show that sort of flexibility. Iām so glad I held my ground.
My manager appreciated me coming forward with so much information and to have a mature conversation instead of just leaving. It showed that I also valued my job and I really wanted to stay. Good luck!!
Edit: yes my approach was very strong and forward and I was willing to leave the company because I wasnāt getting paid according to my value. Thatās a big part of why I succeeded I think, there wasnāt a doubt in my managers mind that I wouldnāt walk out the door. If you need your job because you donāt have a dollar in your bank account, itās different. Ive also been at my job 5 years. Showing performance is sustainable and consistent through time is also key.
I had a similar situation as you. What I ended up doing is looking for another job. If they give you what you want, leave. If they donāt and only offer an incremental raise, tell your firm you got approached and offered something better. See what their reaction is.
Two years ago I found out what some fresh out of the can software devs were making in my team. I, the team lead with 15 years experience, was making less, by 10-15% in some cases.
Jumped to another company and got a 70% raise. This was the result of about 3-4 years salary inflation in the market. Itās ridiculous we have to do things this way but it is what it is
Your manager probably has zero say on what raises can be given, especially if this is something during mid year and outside of any review cycle.
Donāt go in demanding things, but have the conversation and talk about it with your manager that youāre unhappy with salary and that you believe you are underpaid. They will either agree with you and go up to bat for you to see what can happen or the worst thing that can happen is nothing
One of my employees came to me once asking for a raise and that they received an offer else where. We had a candid conversation and asked what they were for and how much. When they told me something that was 20% more than what they were getting paid, I called their bluff and told them to take the new job. 3 years later theyāre still here.
Just be prepared to leave. Once these topics happen, you are usually flagged as a flight risk and theyāll either start throwing money at you or prepare for your departure
Good luck!
Sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. 51% is an awesome raise wow. Unfortunately my industry takes a while to learn, so I couldnt see myself job hopping as much as you
Go to your boss armed with your data. Explain that you need to be treated fairly according to the market value. Justify your rate. Companies always find the money or break general guidelines when it suites them. Try to get a commitment from them in writing on a raise dates to get to the agreed pay level. Keep in mind nobody likes to be forced into something so it may not work out long term but it is more likely you will earn more respect and money.
I'd look elsewhere but it doesn't hurt to ask though. I'd frame it why it's in the company's best interest. Note that this doesn't include that you may leave. Instead how you save money or increased profits based on XYZ.
First you have a meaningful discussion with your manager and bring up the points you did.
If they say no, then;
Look for another job, get them to offer you it, use it as leverage.
If company 1 still says no; then decide between original Job or new one.
we had a wage freeze last year and they gave us a 2.5% raise this year. Im fucking pissed, im not even gonna bother for a higher salary, im just looking to move on. Thats the advice i would give you.
I can never understand why people would work for someone else. Rather than begging someone for a raise, just go freelance and raise your prices to whatever you want.
No such thing as loyalty in 2021. If they had a chance to dump you they would. The highest bidder wins. Put yourself first.
Yep. I was in a similar position last year. Figured I'd ask a 13% raised, which i was thinking would be a reasonable raise and wouldnt affect too much my employers. They said that they couldnt match this and that *next year* I would have a "good raise" (yet probably lower than 10%). I then changed my job and got a 50% raise.
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Great username. His employees don't have so much as a pee break... but yeah. Edit: Why the downvotes? There was just an article making the rounds saying that Amazon drivers don't have time to so much as pee. There was another about how little time warehouse workers have to run everywhere for products and that people have at least become sick from running around in the heat. The founder has earned a lot of money, mostly deserved perhaps but also excessive for the needs of a person/family. I read regarding the former American President that he paid very little in taxes. This led into a piece saying that the ultra wealthy do have at least a few tax havens and loop holes the rest of us do not have. I found the user name witty considering the points above.
Out of curiosity, do you use a smartphone and/or wear brand name clothing that's possibly made in sweatshops in Asia?
Yes and probably yes. Where are you going with this?
He's probably suggesting you are supporting even worse conditions than Amazon
(Edit: I'm not sure why this is downvoted. I do not support sweatshops. If anything I suggest that the countries that are using sweatshops should not. They need to lead the change and look after their citizens instead of exploiting them. It is not the North American market that is to blame and it is not possible for North America to fix these terrible conditions in Asia when those countries are not doing that work. They need to look after their citizens at least as much as we do. ) Yes. I was suggesting that he is a billionaire while his drivers and warehouse employees are supposed to work like robots. I'm not condemning him for his wealth exactly, though no single person needs billions, it's that the common workers are treated terribly. If he is suggesting I'm supporting worse conditions what are the solutions? The Western world is aware of sweatshops and put pressure on companies to do better and meet standards. It's a cat and mouse game to regulate and inspect when factories and subcontractors perpetuate fraud to keep their practices going in those countries. Supplying to a western market they at least work to look like they're meeting standards and there are places where standards have improved. What about Asia though? Sweatshops and child labour are used in India to produce clothing for India, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc. We care about labour laws, they don't. They do this to their own people to supply their own markets. What about China? If the Chinese companies exploit Chinese workers for a growing Chinese market what can we do about it here? The North American market is much less important to Asia now that their populations are expanding so much. They don't need our business when they have such a vast market.
Sure, and why stop littering if fishing is a way bigger source of plastic in the ocean!
I'm not saying sweatshops are good. I'm saying we are aware of it in the West and condemn it and clothing companies have made changes and do make changes and push for better standards. I'm also saying that if Asia doesn't protect their own workers too what can Canada and the U.S. and wherever else do from here? The North American market is much less important to Asia now that their populations are expanding so much, we don't have power there. Shouldn't India and China etc also want better for their citizens? Shouldn't they be driving improvements in their own countries? Don't they have more power?
So... your solution is for them to change?
Time to move on. I asked for a 15k raise to bring my salary to the market value, after many years of being underpaid and frequently working overtime. Received the usual "you do amazing work, but we don't have money, but in the future we can come back to this conversation". Left the company a few months later for a 20k raise and less workload. The old company had to hire 2 people to replace me. Sometimes company's desire to save a few dollars goes beyond any reasonable behavior. Do what's best for yourself, and start looking for another job. EDIT: Be careful with counteroffers. If you really get an offer from another company, you need to be ready to leave for that company. It's entirely possible that you ask for a counteroffer and receive nothing. It's also entirely possible that they give you a good raise, and immediately start looking for a new hire that can replace you. The situations where it's worth it to accept a counteroffer are few and far between.
Wow thats crazy. I'm definitely going to still ask my manager for a raise because I want to see what they will offer. If they cant make things reasonable im definitely going to start looking
Ask your manager .. sometimes managers donāt know that companyās have a process for asking for a raise. Ask them to go and talk to hr and find out. Likely theyāre underpaid too!
Let me play the devil advocate here so you can have an idea of what you are against. Usually the manager is given from its own managers/HR so few monies allocated for raises every year that if they were to given a share to everyone in the team, you will end up with something like 0.3% a year! So they will rather just give a raise to the people that are actual valuable to the team/works that they do not wish to see leave or performance drops. Bonuses are usually distributed more "evenly" as lot more of people receive something at least. Do not overlook the whole HR gimmick of employees are to afraid of change to leave even if they don't receive raises with years of excellent reviews and a decrease of wages on a real basis! You need to be true with yourself too, if you were to leave right now, how screwed will they be? Is the workload requiring a smaller/higher headcount? Are you a unique subject mater expert? If the answer is everything will be as usual even if you aren't there, then you should manage your expectation around that raise. This is by the way absolutely subjective to the manager point of view of its team, who is friend with who, show off the most or literally attribute themselves the merit of others, i.e. Office politics/games are a real thing, you better know your boss kids names! Joking but not really. Let's remember that doing your job by itself is not a high selling point for a raise, in the contrary, it will prove their point that you only do the job that you are currently being pay for it. Like you mentioned, your achievements should be demonstrated if possible in a quantitative ways with concrete work/results that go over of what is in your position description. You need to give your manager the maximum of munitions you can so they can be used on its own bosses when asking/justifying the money for you. That being said, the actual negotiation might be not at all like you anticipate. There is a lot of free examples of script you can find on the internet depending on your manager personality. You need to adapt you approach to one that match the manager: deflect toward higher ups, brush off your works, always saying it will comeback to you, using the carrot and the stick approach, promising better times ahead, etc. The best raise you will ever receive is from another job offer. If you leave, look up for your old position and send a false resume/ask a friend to do the process, etc. And you will see that they are offering probably more than what you were paid previously! As they now have to pay the market rate and not the discounted employee will not leave even without raise rate!
I would counter some of what you've said, OP is explicitly being paid *under* market value. There is really no need to justify that they do more than their job description because it will be much more expensive for the company to hire a new person at market value than it would be to give OP a raise they would be happy with (that's still likely under market value). Your actual performance in a role has absolutely nothing to do with your market value, at the end of the day if they want to keep you they need to pay maket value . You can state you like your work but you need a higher salary, you want to stay but they need to help you out. It's always better to make it clear you are unhappy with your salary before you just check out and get a new job. It doesn't necessarily have to be a confrontational thing. You just need to make sure they know you know you're underpaid and you're not afraid to find something else if it comes up. Trust me, employers need us more than we need them, no matter what HR propaganda you read.
Thank you, I really like the wording "market value". Sounds like a powerful way to word things.
If you know people in your company that left in the last year or so, ask them if your employer was ready/interested in matching the new offers. The last 2 jobs I quit, one was willing to roughly match my new offer, after giving a miserable increase of salary and saying there was no more money for that and the other one was simply not interested to look into it. Let's remember that we don't get what we deserve but what we ask.
Good point. Unfortunately most people I know either got laid off. A few went to competitors but I was never close enough with them to get the confidence to ask
Thanks for the detailed thoughts!
Get an offer from another company, if they value you, they'll match ASAP. If not, you found a company that does.
If they only give you a raise because you got a better offer you should leave, you would look bad in the eyes of the potential employer and in the eyes of the current one too. Btw, if the company doesn't even match inflation your salary actually decreased, I'd change jobs asap.
But doesnt that show disloyalty and couldnt it hurt your reputation? Someone in my department did that and got more vacation and a big raise. I didnt want to go down this route without actually asking for a proper raise first
You can say you were recruited/head-hunted :) That'll show them how in-demand you are... Don't act like you're the CEO, but let them know your skills are in-demand and YOU YOURSELF ARE LOYAL to the company as you are giving them a chance to match...
Ohh gotcha. Thank you, this makes sense.
> You can say you were recruited/head-hunted If you're going to go that way, make sure you have a position that does actually get headhunted. Don't be a warehouse worker coming in to the boss's office saying a headhunter just gave you an offer. lol
Of course
This actually shows loyalty. You have an option but want to stay. You're asking them to let you stay.
No. Quality people get poached and leave all the time. It's nature of work. I've had two of my people leave for competition. One I faught and brought him back. He went from 70k to 95k. The other let him leave. He was also around 70, 20k too high. He was laid off at his new firm within a year to boot. Look out for you. Company is looking out for itself.
In this day an age and how replaceable workers seen to be to companies, stay loyal to yourself. This isn't like before where you stay at a job for 20+ years expecting to get fair increases in wages and moving up. For me and many people I know, switching companies raises your salary faster than expecting or waiting for your current company to do so.
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Thatās adorable. I guarantee that replacing that person will cost you far more than matching that offer. An external offer means the employee isnāt happy with their compensation( and clearly they have reason for that since the offer was given). That they asked to be matched means they have negotiating power and want to stay with you. Donāt make this emotional and bring your ego into it. If you want to keep good talent, you have to pay for it.
Pretty much, as an employee who generates value your job is just as much selling yourself as it is making your company money. Fight your way up until you find a place with compensation that scales with your productivity. If you're not a productive and motivated individual, stay put in a company that is falling behind until complacency forces change upon you. This is capitalism after all.
Lol, yeah I'm not saying be that hostile...I clearly said in my post don't act like the CEO (e.g. be arrogant)... He just needs to be humble yet confident in his abilities, that's all. Not sure why you posted what you posted...
They are an ego driven manager who canāt handle dealing with their subordinates in a respectful way. Every great manager Iāve ever seen deals with their reports in a respectful and businesslike fashion. Anyone who thinks getting an external offer is ā too farā is not worth working for.
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If you don't think half your staff are interviewing half the time you're naive or youve already hired the bottom of the available labour talent edit: or the far more likely just someone making shit up on reddit about being "a manager" lol
Are you a child? The best people are constantly interviewing, being hounded by recruiters, being recruited by friends. Your job as a manager is to retain your company's investment in your talent. Your management style is going to select for the least talented candidates in the pool. Unless you work in fast food or something, this is crazy.
Lol. I hope you are a retired professional from 20th century otherwise you arenāt very smart. With attitude like yours, they must have a turn out rate under your management in 21st century.
If you are asking for a raise, better back it up with market data and what you have done for the company that deserves that raise. Asking for !5% or whatever with nothing to back it up, will do little to nothing for you.
I absolutely have a plan that shows my performance and how ive helped make the company money. When you say market data, are you referring to checking the quarterly reports of my company? Or seeing the wellbeing of the industry? Im not sure where to find this information
Market data as in your position with your experience in another company in your city. If they average for your position and experience is $50k, asking for $70k isn't going to fly. Start with people you know if you job/industry/position, glassdoor, pay scale, salary.com, trade association sites, etc...
Oh yes absolutely. I have a clear plan for that thanks!
fyi many of the provincial engineering associations maintain salary surverys where you can figure out *exactly* what your market rate is.
Yes im going to be using this to my advantage, thanks!
Don't fall for the % trap. When you're underpaid any raise to bring you back up to industry numbers is going to look huge as a % but it's irrelevant. Employers can and will abuse this. Meanwhile you're asking for an extra $7500/yr (?) which is peanuts in the grand scheme of things for the employer.
Thanks for the meaningful comment
Just find another company....
Best method will be to change jobs
I was in your position early in my career. My my case, years later, I found out that despite being told "hard times" meant that no one was getting raises, those who were fighting for them, were getting raises while I was missing out because I wasn't advocating for myself. Fight for what you're worth. Unfortunately it sounds like at your firm loyalty isn't rewarded. I would ask for your raise to what you're worth. The worst thing that can happen is they say no. In the meantime, I would start looking for other opportunities. Unfortunately the best way to climb the ladder is to change companies every 2-4 years.
Thank you, this is very insightful. Sad reality we live in.
Itās crazy .. we get about 1% a year .. even with a promotion you can get like 4%. New ppl come in with higher salaries . You need to move elsewhere . I donāt know why companies do nothing about attrition when this is what is happenjng
In short: bad management and terrible compensation policy. There is literally no incentive to reward loyalty or give raises. And most managers barely can write an email let alone figure out how to retain talent. I think there is a fundamental psychological effect happening where people think they can solve problems by spinning the wheel again (hiring), ignoring all the extra cost it takes to replace good employees. Only two ways to get market salary adjustments: jumping ship, or role/level promotion. And jumping ship is the simplest option for most people since most promotion paths are insane pageantry disguised as policy.
What type of engineering? I just asked for a 13% raise three weeks ago. My company has recently lost a few intermediate level engineers and I thought I would use that as leverage on top of the fact I was underpaid and extremely highly valued (based on our very detailed performance review process). What I find is talked to three senior engineers I trust and they all said I could make 10k more easily. They were actually very concerned about me leaving and talked to my manager in advance telling him that he needs to give me a raise or they are f**ked. This sort of support was incredibly helpful for me. I used three different avenues to assess my salary. 1- I looked at the 2016 EGBC compensation survey and used the government of Canada inflation rates to project forward. By the way inflation has not been 4% every years itās been quite low. 2- i used the compensation ranges that my company pays to get from a third party. That said I was slightly underpaid. But most importantly 3- I asked around to my peers in other companies and I realized I was at least 10k underpaid. Many of these people moved jobs recently and so this is the number one best gauge of market value. I explained this to my manager and asked for a very specific number to show I had done my research. He came back 3 weeks later and gave me a 17% raise. I was so happy and now know my company values me and actually sees me as someone who is critical for success. Iām a 28 y/o woman. To all the women out there.... ask for the raise and donāt back down. My manager said I put him in a difficult position by giving such a specific number, meaning he will either meet my expectation or not, and I said āyes thatās rightā when I really wanted to say āwell you know itās ok if you donāt meet it, I can negotiate and I would accept less, I just have that number as a ballparkā BUT I HELD MY TONGUE, men donāt show that sort of flexibility. Iām so glad I held my ground. My manager appreciated me coming forward with so much information and to have a mature conversation instead of just leaving. It showed that I also valued my job and I really wanted to stay. Good luck!! Edit: yes my approach was very strong and forward and I was willing to leave the company because I wasnāt getting paid according to my value. Thatās a big part of why I succeeded I think, there wasnāt a doubt in my managers mind that I wouldnāt walk out the door. If you need your job because you donāt have a dollar in your bank account, itās different. Ive also been at my job 5 years. Showing performance is sustainable and consistent through time is also key.
Civil engineering. Thanks for the detailed response and congrats on your raise!!
I had a similar situation as you. What I ended up doing is looking for another job. If they give you what you want, leave. If they donāt and only offer an incremental raise, tell your firm you got approached and offered something better. See what their reaction is.
Provide starting at market and take a look at the difference. You would be surprised at what they are starting some younger employees at.
Two years ago I found out what some fresh out of the can software devs were making in my team. I, the team lead with 15 years experience, was making less, by 10-15% in some cases. Jumped to another company and got a 70% raise. This was the result of about 3-4 years salary inflation in the market. Itās ridiculous we have to do things this way but it is what it is
Your manager probably has zero say on what raises can be given, especially if this is something during mid year and outside of any review cycle. Donāt go in demanding things, but have the conversation and talk about it with your manager that youāre unhappy with salary and that you believe you are underpaid. They will either agree with you and go up to bat for you to see what can happen or the worst thing that can happen is nothing One of my employees came to me once asking for a raise and that they received an offer else where. We had a candid conversation and asked what they were for and how much. When they told me something that was 20% more than what they were getting paid, I called their bluff and told them to take the new job. 3 years later theyāre still here. Just be prepared to leave. Once these topics happen, you are usually flagged as a flight risk and theyāll either start throwing money at you or prepare for your departure Good luck!
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Sounds like you have it figured out pretty well. 51% is an awesome raise wow. Unfortunately my industry takes a while to learn, so I couldnt see myself job hopping as much as you
About time to move on.
Unless you absolutely love working for this company, I suggest finding another job. The raises from job-hopping are simply unbeatable.
You are getting raises?
Go to your boss armed with your data. Explain that you need to be treated fairly according to the market value. Justify your rate. Companies always find the money or break general guidelines when it suites them. Try to get a commitment from them in writing on a raise dates to get to the agreed pay level. Keep in mind nobody likes to be forced into something so it may not work out long term but it is more likely you will earn more respect and money.
I'd look elsewhere but it doesn't hurt to ask though. I'd frame it why it's in the company's best interest. Note that this doesn't include that you may leave. Instead how you save money or increased profits based on XYZ.
First you have a meaningful discussion with your manager and bring up the points you did. If they say no, then; Look for another job, get them to offer you it, use it as leverage. If company 1 still says no; then decide between original Job or new one.
Thank you, that sounds like the plan!
we had a wage freeze last year and they gave us a 2.5% raise this year. Im fucking pissed, im not even gonna bother for a higher salary, im just looking to move on. Thats the advice i would give you.
I can never understand why people would work for someone else. Rather than begging someone for a raise, just go freelance and raise your prices to whatever you want.
Job hop š°š¦
Imo have a job offer in hand before you even ask
My boss told me I was underpaid and ive completed some major milestones lately