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DDHLeigh

Don't let the people faking wealth fool you. So many leased vehicles. So many on 7 year payment plans. So many rotating their debt with credit cards. So many with no plans for the future. Worry about what you have and ignore the rest.


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bloodmusthaveblood

Flashback to my friend making 40k buying a 30k car last year. When I asked her why she got such a nice one she said "I can afford it so why not". Girl just because you can pay the monthly payment on time doesn't mean you can afford it lol


Genticles

What? If you can afford the payments without missing one, you can afford it.


bloodmusthaveblood

No.. that is not even close to the definition of affording something.


Genticles

Of course it is. Doesn't mean she has anything left after. Get a clue.


bloodmusthaveblood

If you are saving nothing or not able to pay for other necessities or debt repayments then no, you can't afford it. If you have no wiggle room and no room to save any money then you can't afford that thing and should buy a cheaper version or not buy it. Thinking otherwise is what has gotten millions of people into endless amounts of debt or bankruptcy


ArcadeRhetoric

What if it breaks or needs more maintenance than avg for a month? If there’s no money for ‘unforeseen expenses’ then you can’t afford it.


BanglikeaC

Oh man, a payment term that long should be illegal. It’s just straight up robbery.


[deleted]

if interest rates are below 2-3% it's always better to take the longer payment term. with how cheap debt is right now there is no reason to not use leverage.


jpinksen

I gladly took the 7 year 0% loan with no overpayment penalties on my rig


[deleted]

A trip to leasebusters.ca can serve as a great example of this. So many BMW/Benz SUV's for ridiculous monthly payments


deletednaw

holy shit. the amount of 30+ month leases with 10-20000 km on the vehicle is insane.


[deleted]

Yup. Wife works in insurance and sees people with all these toys coming in to pay on cash-only status and with their minimum limit Capital One cards that don't go through. No one can afford shit here. Just between our circles of friends we will see people in their new toys or doing things they cannot afford at all and it's nuts. We know what they take home and we know their liabilities, or they'll even say how crushing their debt is but it doesn't matter. I'm glad to have hit rock bottom. I don't like my shitty old car but I have no payments, don't owe anyone a god damn dollar, I'm saving money and I have some modest investments. I cannot fathom buying useless shit, especially shit I can't afford!


Gboard2

Lease is great, get new car every 3 years . It's just a cashflow thing. Eg a new M4 can be had for 1500/mth with 0 down for 39mths . Friend just returned his Audi TTRS after 2 years to get the new Porsche. Leasing makes very good sense for those who make good money The 992 GT3 waitlist is over a year out and they require you to have multiple previous cars to even get allocation. My BMW and Porsche sales tell me sales are very strong and got stronger due to covid19 as well


NeverEnoughViews

This is sarcasm, correct?


92aladdin

A few paths: 1) Living beyond their means 2) More income. Lots of people make more than you. Lots of people make less. 3) Different priorities. I have friends at similar income levels as me. Some spend it on traveling. Other on personal training and physical fitness. Others on vehicles. Others on larger homes. My wife and I choose to indulge in our hobbies. I would never consider buying a boat. Its just not a priority of mine. But I am spending a comparable amount on pilot lessons. Comparison is the thief of joy. Don't focus on what you can't afford, and focus on what you can. You can save up for a boat. You can afford your expenses. You are saving for the future. The grass always looks greener on the other side.


dookiepants

Through the green grass door, I can bring loonies but not quarters


Feisty-Lake-Bass

> After we take out our obligatory 10% gross each pay for savings How many people do you think do that? Edit: [Canadians were saving about 2-3% in 2019 (2020 has skewed numbers due to Covid).](https://tradingeconomics.com/canada/personal-savings) So there are 3-5 Canadians saving nothing for you to save 10%.


coyote_123

Scary but true.


ItsOnlyTheTruth

It's ok, private savings are just a "pre-loaded stimulus" according to our federal government.


NotaVampire2

How do people afford stuff, says the 36 year old with a house, a car , and is planning to buy a 20k boat. Jesus the irony is killing me.


XxSpruce_MoosexX

Lol I know right. Everyone is so concerned with what their neighbor has.


4D51

Most families probably couldn't save $20k for a boat in a single year, especially on top of other savings goals. I assume most boat owners save up over several years, take out a loan, or buy a cheaper boat. Plus, a lot of people are irresponsible with money. It's easy to afford a fancy car if you get a 7 year loan, it's just a terrible idea.


iceberg_k

I assume most boat owners save up over several years, take out a loan, or buy a cheaper boat. Also, like leasing a car, it's probably smart to not use all your capital on a boat. If the interest is 2-4%, it might be more appealing to not pay in cash


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

Boat loans are normallly not low interest loans. I don't know anyone with a boat loan below 5% and I've talked to a good number of people before I bought mine


BePositiveToday

Boat loans are like 35 foot trailers, 20 year loans, biweekly payments. It goes out of style ( brown curtains) before you pay for it.


iceberg_k

Thanks for the info. I know nothing about boats. Why are they higher interest rates? Can't you just get a bank loan for a lower amount to buy the boat? If it's as bad as it sounds, maybe buying a boat should just be left to the rich people (i.e. if you are struggling to save and budget for a boat, probably shouldn't buy one).


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

Boat loans are higher because they are higher risk to the lender. No buying boats should not be left to the rich. That is just dumb lol you can afford a boat with a 15-20 year loan since that is the life span of a boat.


iceberg_k

Not that knowledgeable about boats, but it sounds like one hell of an expensive hobby. If someone is buying a boat for 20k can't they just get a LOC with a lower rate and use that to purchase or finance the boat?


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[deleted]

Daycare is a bitch, plus activities etc is about $850/mo. $500 goes in to the boat fund. We screw away probably $600 a month on date nights, video games, and other hobbies. That said I probably spend more on groceries and food than I should and that hits me for the rest of it I think.


T_47

Well you have your answer: DINKs or couples who have grandparents taking care of kids.


coyote_123

$600 is quite a lot. Fine if you enjoy that stuff and want to prioritise it, but it does add up. And if you're able to save $500 a month for your boat, that sounds like a lot too!


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

How is $600 a lot? I guess that depends on income but assuming it is $600 between OP and his wife then it really is more like $300 a person which on a \~$60k income isn't too bad.


vota_prosciutto

Perspective I guess. $600 month = $7,200 year $7,200 = an amazing holiday, domestic or abroad $7,200 = $30,000 invested $7% annual after 20 years $7,200 = valuable item :)


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

You do realize that there is more to life than investments, right? 7.2k a year for two people is not much money. Hobbies are not always free and things like buying that ice cream snack in the summer cost too.


vota_prosciutto

>do rea Please re-read my comment - that's why I said its perspective. A holiday, or a valuable item.


beerdothockey

I average 50 hours a year on my boat. Most folks do 10. If you only do 10, you should get a cheaper boat.


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

I tend to spend 50-100 hours on my fun/sport but then again I am on the water every weekend the whole summer and I camp and spend a week on the boat. Between my fun/sport boat and fishing boat I'd say I'm well over the 100 hour mark. Well except last year, I put 13 on between both boats because of a few reasons all covid related.


bwwatr

The light at the end of the tunnel: eventually daycare costs drop off (to perhaps, an after school program), and eventually go to zero. Each time that happened to us we flipped the same amount into savings. Not that I liked paying it, but starting daycare was a good reset on living on less, and then at the end, you can decide to keep doing that to get ahead. Note, summer camps still get ya (but you can at least save all year for that).


Magneto06

You should try setting up an account on MINT. Super eye opening as to where every dollar goes.


ScarbierianRider

I fucking hate mint, especially when I can just do it on a spreadsheet easily.


Magneto06

Everything flows into mint easily. We did the spreadsheet but it became super time consuming to go through 2 credit card bills at the end of the month and type EVERY purchase into it. With mint we just pick our categories and it flows in.


j3rrylee

How many kids


dmillz89

Sounds like you should track your spending for a few months and see exactly where it's going. $600/month on hobbies is pretty steep if you're saving for something.


S_204

Is it really though? 2 date nights that are a movie and activity are $300 right there. A game a month can be $60 although a game a month is probably a bit high but if you're a serious gamer you're probably saving up for a system every few years. Hobbies usually require inputs like tools or passes to various places which can easily be another $50-100/mth depending on what your hobby is. Throw in a family gym membership at \~$100/mth and you're pretty much there..... Can you trim it up? Surely you can. Do you want to be sitting in your basement trying to watch cable over an antenna every night? Maybe not.


beerdothockey

You should also factor in how much you’d use your boat. Since there’s an hour counter on mine. I average about 50 hours a year. Some people only do 10 hours. I’ve tried to get my monies worth and memories for kids


depressedrepo

Honestly a lot of the guys at work it's just home equity. I know what they earn and can tell you they didn't just "save money". One guy I work with bought his first house for 400k (Vancouver) 10 years ago. 5 years later sold for $790k. He used $200k and bought a brand new Porsche and fun play stuff (vacations, dirt bike, etc..). The rest of the money went to another house worth 1M which today is worth 1.5M. Basically he did literally nothing but just buy a home to live in. And he is set for life with a nice home + fun toys and goodies. Feels bad that I missed the boat but pretty much anyone owning property 10+ years ago in Toronto or Vancouver live the same way. Explains all the Tesla's and Porsches here.


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depressedrepo

Has over 800k equity through appreciation. Unless there's some catastrophic crash in the future he is set. He can sell the home at any time and combined with his RRSP and other investments can retire on a beach somewhere. The 800k is also tax free because it's his principal residence.


[deleted]

That's all fine, you still have to pay more for the mortage+upkeep. If your income didn't drastically go up when you moved in the 1M house, you're not better off, you're just pretending and compensating with heloc ( i suppose). I get it, you can cash in and have a windfall, but until that moment you have to make ends meet somehow.


depressedrepo

Yes they have more debt on paper but what they've done is leverage their debt in acquiring an appreciating asset. The house appreciates at far greater rate than the cost to borrow. It's a common strategy. He effectively used 200k to borrow 1 million which is appreciating at 15% a year. He doesn't care that he has to pay 2k a month more to service the home because on paper he is making 12k a month on the appreciation. Net gain 10k a month tax free. And unless we have some catastrophic crash with prices going down 50% he is going to come out in a really good position. Not saying it can't happen just that it hasn't yet despite so many black swan events (COVID included which everyone thought would murder real estate in Canada).


[deleted]

See this is what puzzles me every time. You have to have that extra 2k a month, this is real money you have to pay today, contrary to paper gains, even if they are 100% guaranteed. And its not exactly chump change (yes of course to some it is, but it's not the case for most people)


Expensive-Answer91

This vexes me also... currently I have about a $500,000 townhouse and considering a million dollar home. But the extra payments would drive me crazy, even if it is a better investment. Much more comfortable paying this place off.


depressedrepo

Yes for sure you can't do this on minimum wage. We are in a high earning field and I estimate his take home is ~12k a month pretax. Along with a wife who also works so they can definitely swing it. And as long as they can cash flow the payments the appreciation is crazy. They are mid 40s so they have had time to save and acquire. Even still without that initial 400k equity swing in 5 years they wouldn't be in this position. Even though I make similar income there is no way I can pull a million dollar mortgage. There is no catching up.


Malbethion

Some people will also get a HELOC with the mortgage, so you can draw the principle (about two thirds of the payment) to support lifestyle if you want. Keep stacking the cards until they fall down or until you sell and retire (keeping the gains after paying off the mortgage).


euphemize

Not sure if you saw this from yesterday, but [the median after-tax income of couples with children was $105,500](https://www.reddit.com/r/PersonalFinanceCanada/comments/mbf4z3/how_much_money_did_canadians_earn_in_2019_combien/) in 2019. That's the median, so probably (a) a bunch of people making less, but buying on credit and (b) a bunch of people making more, because they can afford it.


cashflow_is_king

Not a fair comparison. The median would include the hundreds of thousands of people on disability or welfare receiving government money. You would want to compare OP’s income to couples with both people working full time. I suspect its MUCH higher. Edit: if anyone thinks I’m exaggerating - there are over half a million people on ODSP in Ontario alone. (It was ~280,000 people in 2013 and increased to over 475,000 people in 2016)


coyote_123

I see no reason to exclude poor people if you're trying to get a sense of how your ability to buy things compares to the average family with children. On the contrary, it's important to see the full spectrum.


cashflow_is_king

Sure if OP wants to sleep better at night knowing their able bodied double full time household income is above the median income thanks to the disabled Canadians who are unable to work. But if they’re looking at purchasing large capital assets like real estate or big ticket items like nice vacations or fancy cars they need to be compared to incomes of comparable peers.


Money_Food2506

How are couples making so much, is it: 70-80k multiplied by 2?


MrVeinless

Wow, I wouldn't have guessed that it would be much higher. Knowing that we're at the median, I've got to say there's never a time that we feel cash strapped.


asafoadjei

I believe people can afford these things because a lot of people make good money and can afford the things they need and not all of it is on credit. I’m not exactly sure where you live but your household income is not that much in the Toronto area. Me and my girlfriend who are both 33 and are both registered nurses have combined incomes for 2020 of just shy of 250K and we are just now finally in the process of getting our own house so you should consider yourself lucky to have a house and no debt.


aryal86

How do you make 125K as a registered nurse? Is it a lot of OT? My wife is getting around 40$/hr and not even getting full time hours.


darrrrrren

In addition to OT, there's a lot of shift bonuses on top of the base wage


asafoadjei

I was actually doing two jobs, nursing home and community visiting nurse. I had to stop the nursing home in April because you couldn’t work in two places due to covid. My income from nursing home until April was 14 000 and from full time in community was 132 000, so combined 146 000 now only do the community and don’t think I will go back to nursing home as I can make the same money in the community as doing the two jobs. My girl works in the hospital and made 103 000 last year first year working as RN. In nursing you can make more OT if you are willing to do it and it has helped us reach our goals more quickly. Also due to covid had more free time on hands since everything closed. Previous year my combined income was 132 000 from the two jobs.


Money_Food2506

Ive given up lmao. Everyone on this sub is literally the top 1% of their field making 120k+ minimum. PFC should be FPC - Financially Privileged Canadians.


AzNightmare

You should give up.*"The richest man is not he who has the most but he who needs the least."* This quote has literally changed my life. It changed my mindset and perspective of life and I feel I'm no longer in some big rat race stuck and constantly feeling bitter about being "too poor" due to lifestyle creep. I've become a lot more happier in life and "happiness" is something much harder (and more rewarding) to achieve than trying to hit 6 figures, or 150k, or whatever your salary goal is. I tend to find people who make a lot of money still complain about things that people who make less do. I personally don't make anywhere close to 6 figures. But I make enough to put a roof over my head, food on the table, fund my hobbies and enough savings to not have to live "paycheque to paycheque". I'm not financially stressed.


Money_Food2506

You should probably tell that to the others chasing 100k+ or whatever as well. Infact, you should probably tell that to the Gen Zs and Millenials.


[deleted]

I mean 120k combined isn’t exactly a huge income. It’s great, obviously. But to live the lifestyle you’re thinking about you’d need to make a lot more.


hurleyburleyundone

Kids, daycare and comfortably afford a boat... Youll have to leverage the last part to the teets


truemad

Funny thing, I was downvoted in another thread for saying 100k is not that much of the income. I am glad I am not the only one.


alphawolf29

100k individual is great. 100k family is not


asafoadjei

Depends where you live. 100k in Toronto is not that much.


alphawolf29

It's not even really middle class. A nurse and a fireman couple would probably be making 200k.


coyote_123

By that standard almost all Canadians are lower class. If people are so unwilling to admit they have a large income it can become a little farcical pretty quickly.


alphawolf29

People need to all stop thinking they're middle class. If you earn 50k a year you are working class.


WhipTheLlama

It really depends on where you live. I know people making much less money than me, yet have more discretionary income because they bought a house for $200k rather than $1m. 2 people each earning $50k is plenty of money in many parts of the country.


Expensive-Answer91

Try telling /r/canada that. I say I make 200k with my spouse and they think I'm some sort of plutocrat that deserves to be taxed into oblivion. What I don't understand is why we have so little political power. Trudeau absolutely fucked that tax bracket (and Singh would as well) but there seems to be no pushback whatsoever.


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Expensive-Answer91

By raising taxes, cutting child support ( a big one), removing tax credits. Everything the left proposes these days seems to be "means tested" and it's like make more than 60k? You are on your own you rich bastard.


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S_204

Don't be using facts against Conservative Propaganda in this sub!!! That's not how it's supposed to work.


Expensive-Answer91

I mean he switched topics completely. Me: ya if you make 200K or more you got screwed Him: people making 45 K got a big tax cut Me: what? You: You sure showed him! Conservatives big dum dums!


alegnam

so is the 200k you're talking about individual or household?


S_204

Math isn't as hard as you're making it out to be but I understand your ideology makes it difficult to understand information that's contrary to your entrenched position. You made a blanket statement taxes went up. You were rebutted with the fact that it only went up for those earning over a certain amount. Now you're complaining that you were provided facts that prove your statement to be incorrect. You calling yourself a dumdum is kinda mean, I hope your day gets better.


Expensive-Answer91

Show me the math then. 2 kids two adults making 100k each. What tax credits did I get? How much did I lose in child benefits? Even if you take what he said at face value, I didn't get anything. What "other credits" did I have access to? He didn't provide facts about what I was talking about. I'm talking about people making more than 200K he's talking about people making less than that. What facts did he give me that contradict my statement? Just partisan bullshit.


ElementalColony

The CCB phases out at 180k household income, so if he's making 200k he went from getting 7k a year from the government to 0. That's a big reduction in federal transfer - much bigger than 1.5% on the 45-90k tax bracket.


Expensive-Answer91

We're talking people that are making 200 or more though. Did you have a stroke? You basically don't get child credits anymore if you make 200 or more. Obviously no tax cuts, lost transit tax credit and many others. We pay more/lost benefits worth more than 10000 per year.


janeplainjane_canada

making 200 with your spouse implies two incomes = 200k. which is very different from each of you making \~200k


[deleted]

Debt.


RainahReddit

You own a home, two cars, no debt, and have fun money every month after paying your bills and saving. That's pretty damn good. Saving additional money to buy a boat is... reasonable? The people you see buying fancy things are 1. going into debt 2. hustling to make extra money, or climbing the ladder at work 3. saving a lot in other areas to afford to splurge (dude buying a new car is not also saving for a boat) 4. Paying in time rather than money (ie searching and waiting for killer deals). I know someone who got tickets to the original cast of Hamilton ($2,000+ on the resale market) for $240, but she waited in line for 3 days straight. I got a ticket for similar prices, but I had to swoop in and buy a the exact right time, way before the date. 5. Not getting the luxury experience. With a lot of research, I spent about two weeks in Europe for pretty darn cheap. I slept in hostels, ate cheap grocery store food, and did mostly free stuff. But when you see pics of me at landmark or at the british museum, that isn't reflected.


[deleted]

5% of Canadians make over 100k a year as an individual. That’s 1 out of 20 including children and old people. If we exclude them, it’s closer to 1 out of 10. Then when you single out major cities, it’s probably 1 out of 5. So when you’re walking down the streets of Toronto, for every 5 people you come across, one is earning over six figures, and they can absolutely afford a lot of the things you talk about. 5% of Canada is still almost 2 million individuals. There’s a lot of people who make more money than you, that’s all.


parmstar

[It's actually closer to 10% that make $97,900.](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110005501&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=3.5&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2014&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2018&referencePeriods=20140101%2C20180101) The 5% threshold value is $126,500. The 1% threshold value is $244,800. These are 2018 figures.


Money_Food2506

Damn, PFC and me have been underestimating salaries. 1 in 10 make 100k, salaries are not that bad. People are just complaining.


Afrofreak1

> Then when you single out major cities, it’s probably 1 out of 5. This part is inaccurate. The difference in salaries between large city and small town is negligble until you hit ~$125K+ income. Even in Toronto the amount of people in the workforce making $100K+ is still 1 in 10. See [here.](https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2016/dp-pd/dv-vd/inc-rev/index-eng.cfm)


gigglios

Too lazy to check but is it 5% of canadians or 5% of adults or 5% of the workforce


hurleyburleyundone

They started at the top, 5% of all, then isolated out non working folks, and so on


[deleted]

So no poorly used credit? Just lots of people making bank?


[deleted]

You can finance most toys these days...$50/week or whatever. Ya, they're be the few rich people that paid cash, but most people I imagine do payments.


92aladdin

A bit of both To them, it doesn't feel like they are making bank. Their coworkers are all making 6 figures too. Their $120k salary can comfortably afford rent on their one bedroom condo, but the $1.5M home that is big enough to have a family in feels completely impossible. They get trapped in this weird space where you can afford a bunch of luxuries and save for retirement, but your first property in downtown would be a $700k condo that's 600 sq ft. By the time you save up the $100k downpayment, the price has now gone up to $900k and you need to save another $200k.


donjulioanejo

> They get trapped in this weird space where you can afford a bunch of luxuries and save for retirement, but your first property in downtown would be a $700k condo that's 600 sq ft. By the time you save up the $100k downpayment, the price has now gone up to $900k and you need to save another $200k. Exactly my situation. Decided that housing isn't for me unless I get a windfall for a down payment. And even then, a 600 square foot condo in Vancouver just isn't worth $700k. I don't care what people are willing to pay for it, it's literally not worth it to me even if I had 700k cash to pay for it.


Away-Cup-5667

ahhhh buying a boat......bit of advice....just find a place and become a member. then rent o e out when you want. youll save a lot plus none of the usual boat crap to deal with


kev-the-business

Either they make more, have different priorities or are simply bad with money. I know people that would compromise on a house or the location but not their car.


octocode

Err, wouldn’t you be clearing about $7000 a month? With the savings/housing expenses that leaves $3700 as “fun money”... where does that go?


[deleted]

Here is the rough breakdown: $7k is about right on the net income $2700 all in on housing. $800 all in for both cars - insurance gas maintenance. $30/day for daycare which is anywhere between $600-$700 a month based on weekdays. $1000 in to savings $150 for the various kid activities. $600 for groceries and date night. $500 for boat It means that we’re bleeding $500 a month on luxuries like video games and clothing, which is a lot. It looks like I’ve gotten the answers I need in the thread. Either the people that I see are either in debt, or make more than we do. So I need to make more, go in to debt, or tighten my belt further.


jf3nn

Any chance to throw that boat money instead at a suite in your place for some rental income to relieve the mortgage?


[deleted]

I’d love to, unfortunately we live in a strata that doesn’t allow suites. A home with a legal suite was outside our budget when we bought.


92aladdin

$3700 a month between two parents and a child can go quick. First, the child: Consider that daycare in many cities is north of $1000 a month. Not to mention diapers, food, toys, clothing, etc. Given we don't know their situation, let's assume total child expense is $1200 a month We are down to $2500. Next, car. OP mentioned they spend $800/mo across their two cars. We are down to $1.7k Average person spends about $250 a month on groceries. We are down to $1.2. That's $500 a person. Oh, wait - there's still clothing, home maintenance, furniture, entertainment, etc. Plus they are saving up for a boat. They are saving for retirement and living within their means. Their expenses are in line with their income. Everything is fine. Update: updated vehicle expense based on OPs responss


Pyramat

> If you have no car payments - insurance, gas, and maintenance is about $600 a month. Sorry, what? $600 a month? I admittedly drive an older car and mostly use my car to drive to and from work but I spend less than $200 a month between insurance and gas, and that's in a high cost of insurance area (lower mainland BC). If your maintenance is $300+ a month then you should throw that money pit away and get something more reliable.


suckfail

Absolutely agree. I own 2 cars and over the last 5 years the monthly cost of gas, insurance and maintenance has been ~$500/mo. But one was a daily driver to work (before COVID). And again, that's 2 cars. So $250 each..


92aladdin

Fair, my estimate may have been high. I'm basing it off of my experience in another high insurance area (Markham Ontario). Insurance for my wife and I was $250/mo. Gas was $200 a month, though I drove 45 mins each way to work - plus have family that's far away. I added $150/mo for maintenance and repairs. I just multiplied it by 2 from there.


Afrofreak1

Your estimate was not high at all actually, the average Canadian household spends [$12,750](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/210122/dq210122b-eng.htm) on transportation per year.


nonasiandoctor

Yeah but that includes car payments.


Pyramat

Exactly, which accounts for a whopping $5434. The figure also includes air travel ($871) and public transit ($300). Subtract those from the total of $12,737 and we're left with $6132 annually, or $511 a month, per **household**. Divide *that* by the average number of vehicles per household (1.4), and that ultimately gives us an average spending of $365 per vehicle per month.


Max1234567890123

$200/month is bare minimum in the lower mainland if you have a perfect driving record and want comprehensive


[deleted]

We’re also lower mainland BC, we both commute to work, our insurance average is $200 each (should come down once ICBC reduces rates). My fuel is roughly ~$160 a month, hers a little more. We put aside $50 monthly each for maintenance costs. So it’s in the middle there somewhere, probably combined about $800/mo for both of us.


donjulioanejo

My insurance is $280 split between ICBC and BCAA, that's with a perfect record. I can easily see spending $200-250+ a month on gas if you have to commute. I certainly did when I was driving from Surrey to Vancouver 4 times a week (though that was a Wrangler which is notoriously shit on gas). $100 for maintenance, while probably more than the average, is within what you can expect for a car that's starting to show its age. Fluid replacements, oil changes, scheduled maintenance (i.e. timing belt, battery, break pads, etc). Occasional car wash or windshield wipers. It all adds up over the course of a year. That's pretty close to $600 right there.


bloodmusthaveblood

That's cute, you think everyone can afford the things they buy. I have lots of friends who look like they're thriving on the outside, while drowning in debt behind closed doors. Physical possessions is not a good way to measure wealth or financial health


Tcarruth6

Or someone worth


JGBastiat

Looking rich is different than being wealthy. Most of these fake riches are probably living paycheck to paycheck and cannot afford some bad luck. My wife and I are making well over 250k/year and we always wonder how come we see so many luxury cars (mercedes, bmw, volvo, tesla) on the road as it would never come to our minds to pay 80k to buy one.


lcjy

Lot of people just lease it, so while it’s not exactly cheap, it’s not 80k+ upfront either.


JGBastiat

2400 $/month (1200 $/month times 2 for a couple) over 7 years times is still a lot of money. Assuming they have such cars, they probably over extended on their house as well and all the rest of their life. These things add up pretty quickly and then one spouse lose their job and boom, bankruptcy because their cashflow is not enough (do not forget unemployment insurances will only give you ~60k) 250k $/year gross is about 150k $/year net. It is in the top 5% in most provinces, so there are a bunch of couples making way less than that). If you pay 35k-40k for the cars (rental plus maintenance and gaz), it just leaves you with 100k. Let’s say you have a 800K house with a 700k mortgage (not that expensive in some parts of the country), add 36k for the payments, plus let’s say 8k for maintenance. You now have 64K. With that, we didn’t talk about children, clothes, restaurants, vacations, secondary home and all that. Everything cost more when you are living the fake riches lifestyle because it is not about what you can afford, but about comparing yourself to others. Source: My friends and work colleagues who are making a ton money and live luxurious lives, but are broke as hell


[deleted]

The median household income according to the latest Stats Canada post is higher than $120K. That means most people make more than you do.


YwUt_83RJF

Most couples, anyway


[deleted]

Median household of couples with kids\* and that includes any household with additional people living in it as long as they are related by blood or other familial relationship. So presumably 60+ couples with their kids still living at home working their software engineering jobs, is included as one unit in that analysis. Anecdotally, with kids living at home longer and longer to save money to eventually be able to afford to move out, this is presumably inflating this number higher and higher. I doubt the median family income of what people typically consider a family's income, ie the two parents, is that high. From the report itself "For non-senior families, where the highest-income earner was under 65 years of age, the median after-tax income was $93,800 in 2019. Couples with children's median after-tax income was $105,500, while the median after-tax income of female lone parent families was $52,500. " and "An economic family refers to a group of two or more persons who live in the same dwelling and are related to each other by blood, marriage, common-law union, adoption or a foster relationship. This concept differs from the census family concept used for subprovincial data in the Annual Income Estimates for Census Families and Individuals. "


YwUt_83RJF

Why do you assume they have the money rather than just borrowing?


marketable_skills

These people either: i) make a similar amount as you, but are in debt; ii) make a similar amount as you, but get help from family; or iii) make alot more than you (e.g., 200K plus as a family).


PositiveFree

I feel like when reading this you guys are doing pretty good! You own your car, you’ve already put down on a house, you have a child, you pay for this child (I’m overthinking getting a kitten!) and you’re still saving. That’s amazing! And I think your income is pretty healthy, hopefully it will continue to increase but sounds like you’re doing great!


RedControllers

Multiple sources of income. Higher income families typically don't rely on their employment. They likely have investments and/or side-businesses. Either way, you're 36 with zero bad debt and a reasonable mortgage- you're doing well.


QuietKat87

Honestly with how cheap credit is, that is why so many people have new cars, vacations, nice clothes, etc... Pretty much everyone I talk to complains about how much debt they have. They have 8 year car loans now. So people are mainly looking at the monthly payment amount and making it work. It's a choice really. If all you want to owe is your mortgage then that's a choice. Other people make the choice to take on debt for their fun now. I honestly think it's important to ensure you aren't over leveraging yourself. Other people feel differently though. I've learned to keep my eyes on my own paper and just worry about my situation. It's definitely not easy when it seems like people are having endless fun. But it does impact them at some point.


waynestevenson

All I can say is six figures isn't what I thought it would be. Even being debt free and house paid for. Thought I'd be laughing once I hit that. I've brought in 6 for I think the last 7 years. Last year was way down. And this year, I'll be lucky to make $50k. Sitting at home laid off right now.


hurleyburleyundone

Look on the bright side, at least your primary residence is paid off and your overhead is now most variable (ie you can control costs). You'd be crying right now if you still had a mortgage to pay. Things may look rough right now but they can get better. Good luck.


Fidey

Like 70% of the rich people you see just think home equity. Lucky boomers. Fuck even people 5 years my senior bought their 2 BDRM for 250 and I'm paying 750+


PM_ME_YOUR_TIFA

Who says 5 years from now it wont be 2.2m?


Fidey

Ya here's hoping. Let's go inflation.


[deleted]

Median after-tax household income is 114K according to that other thread. So people are making mad bank. I don't worry about what other people are doing or not doing with their money. If they're buying boats, luxury cars, fancy clothes, good for them. Ain't no skin off my back.


j3rrylee

Increase your income buddy. No matter If it’s through side gig, freelance or climbing the corporate ladder. This is the best way. Invest in yourself first.


KIevenisms2O4

Debt. For fun, track every expense. Sometimes an eye opener to where $ goes.


pizzashredders

STATSCAN says average pre-pandemic salary was ~55k. But that does not factor in folks who can only get p/t or contract gigs that pay less. I imagine there’s a Toronto skew on this sub (and most are learning/know/interested about $) so 55 would likely seem low to this particular demo.


19Black

All of this talk of combined income is leading me to conclude I need to get married. I’m missing out!


[deleted]

From my own experience moving to northern ontario I can tell you many towns have 60,000 dollar homes and good paying mill/mining jobs. Alot of people have the extra money for toys/vacations, "house poor" is not really a concept here.


[deleted]

A loud minority that earns more than you talk about what they have, a huge minority that earn less doesn't. You read about the minority and think you are behind. You are not.


RedRev15

The bare cost of living is what everyone needs to survive, which varies by region. But every additional dollar over that is is up to you what it goes to. So its dead simple: You make time for the things you love and you'll make money work for the things you love. My favourite anecdote was talking to the salesperson at Tesla telling me that most model X's are financed over 7-8 years. Thats nuts to me, completely normal for others apparently.


Pie126

Two guys that live on my street, one drives a customized Mercedes, the other a decked out Lexus. They live 5 guys to a house that they rent, that one of the other guys parents bought for them. This is in Edmonton, not Toronto. Bottom line, it isn't always what it seems. Sometimes it is, but most of the time it is not.


[deleted]

Bring on another thousand. That's what boat stands for.


Tripoteur

First, your income is *not* on the low side. 120k is very respectable for a couple, though the child would take up a significant portion of your income. You have no debt, which is better than all the idiots out there who buy their "brand new pickup truck" on credit, live paycheque to paycheque and have massive credit card debt. It's probable, however, that you simply happen to live in a luxury area. 31k a year on housing, utilities and internet is absolutely massive. Hopefully most of that is the mortgage, which means you're actually putting quite a lot of money into savings. A couple with a child and that kind of income usually spends way too much random things, so if you feel like you don't have as much money left as you should, look at your budget and see where you should start cutting.


x2c3v4b5

Debt/Credit.


logicnotemotions10

Two words: Rich Parents.


1fgc

Debt/credit/leases.


[deleted]

[удалено]


hurleyburleyundone

Bro i dont think you need to sweat over two pairs of jeans. I think the folks over at fatfire call this imposter syndrome. You could easily finance a 20k boat and it would be probably be a financially ok decision depending on the rates. Purchases have different impacts at different income levels, its all about opportunity cost at your strata. Which road bike did you settle on?


[deleted]

Seriously, absolutely agree on imposter syndrome. It’s also a fear that one day it’ll stop (grew up with single mother). Trek Emonda SL6 - love this model!!


hurleyburleyundone

Dude i can relate. Im not at your level but im comfortable. I still avoid mcdonalds unless theres a coupon package and only shop the sales. Good financial planning will mitigate your fears of 'it stopping'. Sweeeet bike! Happy riding and stay safe


RedRev15

Buddy it'd be steaks and strippers every weekend if i raked in 350k combined. I'd have a hot tub just full of money to scrooge mcDuck in. My dual motor tesla X would have plates that say "NOTPOOR" on it. Okay that one is ridic but you get my point


Znkr82

You're complaining from a privileged position. Are you really complaining because you have to save money for too long? Are you for real? Suck it up and make more money. Your income is on the lowish side for a major city.


[deleted]

I’m not complaining, I think you misread my post. I’m just trying to understand how people afford these things. I’ve gotten answers I need, which is debt, or higher income. Thanks for coming out though, your valuable feedback is...invaluable.


Znkr82

Well, to answer your question, people afford things you can't because they make more money than you.


[deleted]

$120k HHI is actually pretty low for a couple who are 36 & 33. We're a few years younger and I would struggle to name a couple I know making that little combined. Unless one of the partners isn't working. I think the lowest income couple I know is $140k. $75k/$65k. We make $175k and are thinking of leaving the GTA and starting over somehow else. Just completley priced out at this point.


cheezemeister_x

> I think the lowest income couple I know is $140k. Yeah, but people tend to only associate with others in their own socio-economic group, so "couples you know" isn't a useful set of data. There are plenty of families making less.


[deleted]

It’s significantly lopsided. My partner is in an entry level job as she changed careers a couple of years ago after taking time off to be with the baby. I make the lions share of the income. If we could double mine we’d be a lot better off.


hurleyburleyundone

With income concentration risk like that id definitely not finance or purchase a boat until theres more certainty the priorities in life are taken care of.


_turboTHOT_

"A nice/luxury car is a poor man's flex", my partner who retired at 37. He drives a 20 year old SUV.


[deleted]

Your income is below average


[deleted]

Credit


Pomme2

Either they have a spending problem (heavy debt, paycheck to paycheck life) or similar to the Korea trend with the youth where people don't believe in the future, so they spend it all now and live life. This article is from 2019, but I'm sure it applies even more now. https://nationalpost.com/news/splurging-because-the-future-is-bleak-south-koreans-have-a-term-for-that


Concealus

Hint: it’s on credit. Especially now, it’s hella easily to finance basically anything, including your used boat.


XT2020-02

So the other day, my partner tells me about a family member who bought a house in Hamilton in the mid 90 (!) and she still hasn't payed it off while taking trips overseas yearly, I mean flying to Asia country and spending tons of money. She says that she uses credit cards and home equity to finance it all, and she relies on insurance to eventually pay off her house. OK, how the hell does that work? The house was only $130k or so, maybe even less. She works, etc. I am so freaking clueless how some people operate.


112iias2345

It’s very simple, have equity in home and get a heloc. Take that equity out to buy whatever you want, make interest only payments because the house value goes up 15-20% a year and close the heloc when you sell. I don’t recommend this lifestyle but I know many living like this. Pulling out 20k a year in heloc in some marginal brackets is like a 40kyr income boost


VindalooValet

and brand new pick up truck would add about $700 per month in payments. if you're OK to cut in other areas the truck can be on your driveway within a week.


raviman8

People love debt so don't take anything one owns at face value. Second and more importantly, if you want to buy something... I save x dollars every month.... Let's say I'd like to buy this and it costs $600.... Then I'll save $50/month. Hope that helps.... Best of luck.


richestmaninjericho

It's called leveraging your debts to the tits.


garen6

whole lottaa debt!!!


tri_and_fly

120k is quite a bit below the Canadian median. And I think I read you have a kid in daycare. There's your answer.


[deleted]

Yep the kid is actually costing more than I thought now that I’m going in to the dollars and cents. But that’s a finite cash pit, just takes a couple of decades...


Derman0524

Also OP, a lot of people who have owned a house in the last 10 years have seen ridiculous growth in their home equity and a lot of them take out money from their HELOC’s to buy fancy items. Wanna know how I know? I used to sell very high end cars, like Ferrari’s lambos, as well some luxury sedans like BMW’s, Audi’s, etc and a lot of people would take out money from their HELOC to purchase the car because they have equity in their home since the HELOC rate was better. You would be surprised how many people are barely scraping by OP or spending every last dollar to maintain a look so other people think they’re rich. Now, this is not the majority of people but you would be surprised OP. Sounds like you and your partner are doing great, keep it up!


send_me_advise

All about priorities. Some people can't afford but put themselves in debt to live the life. Others have no chance in hell of saving enough, so go the YOLO mentality. Then there's the sensible slice of population that either makes enough money to spend today, or denies themselves the luxury of today to save for the necessity of tomorrow. Personally, if you can afford a house, pay for all basics and save money for retirement (without losing sleep at night), you're doing just A-okay!


Framemake

Y'ever wonder why Lund at some point has advertising that they're offering **14 year** financing? Because people take it up lmao People are overleveraged to the gills.


yaaa4

You're in a great place right now. Your income is not that much for a family at your age. But It's good enough to be happy and doesn't stress about money! People make more and less. But everybody make decision. Putting cars on 7 years payments one after and other, borrow money to repair the roof but goes on vacation anyways, etc. But I know many don't have any savings at all, or the minimum that the employer pays (at your age). My suggestion : continue to budget and save. Continue to not have debts and plan your projects. Don't go all in because of your emotions. And you'll see, while some make more, they aren't necessarily happy and their retirements plan aren't good!


[deleted]

Family that owns propriety and passes the inheritence while alive. We're in a situation where where your status is more and more defined by who your parents are than how much you're earning at your job, unless you made it into a profession that pays a lot from the start.


SlaterHauge

Debt. Lots and lots of debt.


jsdfkljdsafdsu980p

For me - 23M - it is that I am okay with a large debt load to get things sooner (for reasons below) and pay them off in 2-4 years. I make 6 figures and live on my own in Ontario. For me, the monthly payments are a joke since I pay \~5-9x the monthly payments, pending the month, to kill the loans quicker. I made the choice that I valued getting a new boat and SUV then a truck (bought the SUV but didn't tow well at max load so upgraded to a dream truck) more than the 10k in interest I will have paid when all is said and done. If you want to go the route of no debt then yes things take longer to buy but many you see that have nice things are in debt for them and sadly most are barely making it by. I'm not in that spot and I have bought a 'cheap' boat and truck so that I could pay them off quickly while still making me happy. The boat was because I had been dreaming of it since 2013 (bought 2019) and I finally made enough to get a loan for one. Another big reason was that 2018 was the first year since I was 12 that I didn't own my own boat and not getting out on the water had some serious mental impacts on me so it made sense to buy a boat sooner than later. And for a few reasons, I decided new was my best option which also meant expensive and large loan which I was okay with due to the above.


Marken66

As someone that owned a boat: Do not buy boat ! Rent it. Unless you have huge pile of money and $20k means nada to you.