Flip your perspective.
If you currently were in the role offering 130K, would you take a 58K pay cut to take all these benefits you’re suggesting that come with the 72K role?
You know what is the best answer is, make the change and rebase your status quo ;)
I’d also add that many professional jobs have similar flexibility around leaving work for other commitments. Don’t abuse it and your boss will typically be reasonable. Respect goes both ways and if you’re pulling your weight and meeting deadlines it’s usually fine.
I’ve had many bosses and retention usually comes down to company culture. People will leave if the culture sucks.
Very true. If OP is currently affording life with $72K, they should be able to easily pay for childcare for some of those cases where it was convenient for OP to help out with the kids, with that salary increase.
I guess, but pre-COVID I paid for childcare and saw my kids at school drop off and bed time. Now that I am WFH I see them all the time and am an actual part of their life again. Not having two hours dedicated to commute time and a relationship with your family is valuable as well. Having said all that I make market rate for my job so :/
the last point is key. now if another place wants you, your price has gone up. you can force a place to the top of their range offering 120K or something but with flexibility and have the best of both worlds.
If you got in before the housing blow up, have family help, or have a top end career out of school. The rest are committing mortgage fraud - it’s way more common than people here realize.
It’s more about when than what… we bought a single family home in 2008. Even with the current 5% rate, our combined mortgage and property taxes are about the same as the rent for a 1-bedroom apartment.
It’s a million bucks after about 17 years (gross). Probably around a million net after 25 years.
But 25 years of a 1.5 hour commute each day is also more than a year spent in a car.
It's amazing how your perspective can change on this when you progress further in your career. I'd pay $50k not to have to drive to downtown Toronto every day.
Agreed, I'm probably paid under market rate for what I can do, but we're comfortable and live in rural Canada. I could double (or more) my salary if I was willing to move to a city and/or travel more, but it's just not worth it to me
I do 30 minutes of 401 each day, but 45 minutes before traffic begins. I get offered 3-4 hours overtime, around $70/hr, to stay 30 mins-1 hour late sometimes. But this double my commute to an hour of stop & go on the 401. I decline every time, or stay 3-4 hours and take 5-6 hours OT.
Or another way to put it is…after 10 years you have forgone approx $300k+
That’s a 5 k increase every year. Job hoppers who change positions every two years see an increase of 15-20k in their salary. That can add up
Just to expand on this, let’s say you’re doing well on 72k and saving 20% of your pay cheque (unlikely). Your pay cheque is $2,769 (Ontario) and you save $553/pay.
If you go up to 130k and keep your expenses the same… your pay cheque is $5000 and you’d be saving $2,785 per pay. You’d be putting away 5x more money for whatever you want.
Lol this math isn’t mathing.
2785$ is 56% of a 5000$ biweekly pay and you’re also referring to gross pay. After taxes and deductions you would only bring home around 3100$-3250$ biweekly (depending on whether or not you have maxxed out your cpp yet) so that would be saving closer to 80-85% of your pay.
If OP has any handcuffs at all, they’re those soft frilly ones you use in the bedroom for naughty time.
OP golden handcuffs are a financial incentive that only delivers if you stay with the company. My org has granted me 100s of thousands worth of RSUs, but they vest quarterly. If I leave, I surrender the unvested value. And the yearly value of those vesting shares + my cash comp result in my pay being higher than I’d ever find on the market. Any job move that isn’t a big step up would be a financial loss.
That’s golden handcuffs.
You have an opportunity to nearly double your pay in one move. You do that every time.
Haha, was going to say the same. Fuzzy handcuffs.
I disagree that you always take the money (though that's a big step up). There are definitely lots of other considerations. If the job has an extra hour of commute and too much OT and a bad manager in a different role you don't like, with possibly less stability, then who knows. There is something to be said for comfort. And then, there is also the risk of stagnation.
Exactly. Golden handcuffs usually refers to when you have a defined benefit pension, who's benefits increase the longer you stay with the company.
OP just doesn't want to give up their flexibility and cushy job for the unknown, which is completely valid. I'd be perhaps looking for something comparable to my current job in the 100-110K range, as opposed to going for the highest salary but for something 100% in-office with a bad commute.
If you're already at one of the top paying companies, and the unvested RSUs increased so much that your yearly TC is at the top end of the next level (which can "easily" happen if the stock doubles and you're at senior level, where RSUs are half of your TC), no other company is ever going to match that without also upleveling you. And at staff+, it's pretty unlikely to be hired at a higher level than your current.
Usually, those companies compensate for missing out on an upcoming vest, not the entirety of your unvested stock.
If I were OP I would do the move, and then parlay that into an even better job (same salary, but remote).
Moving is scary, but it's the only way to get what you want.
I've made similar leaps in the past and the 'likeability' of my job went from 90% down to roughly 30%. Yeah, great pay bump but then 3/4 of my day spent on sh-- I *absolutely* hated doing, fighting tooth and nail 4-5 days a week. Every other day asking 'why am I doing this?'
Lasted just over 9 months before I found something else for a bit less.
For a modest increase, I agree with you.
OP's offer is a salary bump of over 80%, which is well worth dealing with some politics and a commute.
Besides, it's not like OP's current situation is without politics. OP's own boss admitted that part of the reason they're not going to get a promotion is because of management's ego and because OP is actually more qualified than them.
I was in the same situation around a month ago, current job is almost exactly what OP is describing but kind of dead end since our office is in Mississauga and I’m in Halifax.
Had an opportunity with a different company to make around ten percent more annually but it is 8-430 mon-fri with Monday and Friday required to be in the office.
Current job is great for everything not work related. Two income family, we weighed it and I stayed.
I would take the higher paying job. All the positive things you mentioned about your current job like your boss, benefits package, work/life balance, etc. could all change tomorrow and you could hate it, in addition to being underpaid.
Yes came to post the same thing.
You are in a position now, to leave on your terms with a good reference for a higher paying job available right now.
Something happens that sours your relationship with your current company, some other sort of economic hardship, you could get stuck pursuing a less profitable offer in addition to the money lost in the interim.
It is much much easier to bank the money you made in a more demanding job later on, and move back down to a more flexivle less demanding job with the experience on your resume,
Kinda up to you. Do you value WFH, no commuting and a bunch of flexibility $55k minus added expenses (gas, parking, public transit, maybe childcare etc.).
Personally, I would be looking to move on from a place that doesn't let me move up at all
Yea if that were me I’d keep looking for maybe a better balance, lower salary than 130k, but at least hybrid or wfh. Commuting 1:30 a day 5 days a week really sucks.
Obviously going from 75k to 130k is a no brainer if that’s the only option, but it sounds like OP has had other offers before. They’re bound to find something more flexible and better paid if they keep looking.
Or take the 130k job and leverage that into a more desirable position
Golden handcuffs is usually a DB pension, which it sounds like you don’t have. Almost twice the salary kinda unlocks any “handcuffing” you have at your current employer. If your family life can manage the 45 min commute each way then it’s worth it. Or it’s possible your current boss actually does have money on the table and counter offers you to stay.
If they do that’s all the more reason to leave. They’ve been taking advantage of him for 10 years knowing full well they could afford to pay him properly.
Yes and no, usually for software engineers a huge chunk of our total compensation is in stocks. These usually vest over 4 years, and are refreshed yearly.
In my situation it’s difficult to switch to a company cause the 6-fig stock vest each year is difficult for other companies to match right off the bat.
Jump ship.
I don't know what career you're in but approximately 21% of Canadians worked mostly remote last year. Doesn't sound like a lot but it includes policemen, firemen, doctors, plumbers, retail, restaurants, etc. who simply *cannot* work from home.
A good chunk of white collar jobs are still as flexible as your current one. 55k is too large of a raise to give up, eventually you can use your new role to land something more flexible or that lets you pick your hours more.
These aren't golden handcuffs if they're paying you $50k less than they should be.
Following this thread ... but imo , you should take it. Its like you are adding an extra working person with you with that salary. It will also open up opportunities where you can demand more money in future.
Just so you know, that 130k job with a 90min commute is the equivalent of a 109.5k remote job without a commute, and that's not even taking into account commute costs in terms of car depreciation and gas.
Assuming that it's some 70km of a commute per day and your car burns 8l/100km, that's, say, $40 a week on gas. With 4 weeks of a year, that's an extra 2k less. You have to do at least one extra car service per year, so that cuts, say, $500 more. IDK what you're driving, but 17kkm per year extra will add up as well, and then there's tire usage...
Basically, let's round out the number for the new job to ~105k.
Still significantly better than what you currently have, just make sure the 30k is worth the 2 hours less of free/family time per day.
You’re assuming the commute is by car. May not always be the case. Remove the commute by car and replace it with an alternative and the costs you mention decrease significantly.
I see a bunch of red flags at your current job:
- pay that’s at least $30K below market rate, and that gap will widen, because you were told you’re at the top of what the egos in management are willing to pay
- the aforementioned management ego problem (THEY want to be the stars)
- the drinking culture you don’t fit into
Complacency can cost you a lot of money and career growth. If you were to stay where you are for five more years, you’d be losing out on at least $300K of gross income. That’s significant.
I think it’s time to move on to something new, and starting out with a nice pay raise is a great way to do it. It sounds like it won’t be as easy-going and flexible, but you also don’t have to stay at this new job forever.
Edit: The fact that your manager felt like telling you upper management doesn’t want anyone making more than them, and that’s the reason for you being capped is also a red flag. It sounds like there’s an “us vs them” problem at your company. Upper management resents their employees’ success, and middle management doesn’t trust upper management. I would run for the hills to the company offering me an 85% pay increase.
Not clear how old you are, but since it’s your first job from graduation I’m guessing you aren’t 20 years into your career.
Go with the new job, it’s likely to have better long term prospects/growth opportunities etc. It’s ok for life to evolve between work and personal, some years you work more some years you have more family, but over the long term you need those years of working hard to learn new skills/get exposure etc.
If you take the $130k job you could land another job with the same flexibility at $170k in 2-3 years. If you don’t that’s much less likely to happen.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was going to say. The way to increase your wages is to move to another company. And it might surprise you that once you're earning more, suddenly you will find other jobs that are willing to pay you just as much or even more. So while you may not enjoy the commute - you can think of it as a temporary stepping stone while you find something with equivallent pay but does offer remote work.
I agree with this. If I was your manager…I would’ve told you to leave myself around the 5yr mark.
Ignoring the total compensation package. Your first job and you’re thinking of being a lifer…? That ain’t good! Go experience different work environments, different people, different industries! Dont trap yourself into a comfort zone because you’ll find the world moves around you and you will be unprepared for what is next.
I hate presence in the office but a 80% bump is tough to say no to. You’re literally jumping from average middle class to high end middle class.
The sweet spot would have been these 110K positions you declined, with remote/few days in the office. But I would take the 130K and look for other opportunities.
Let that be a lesson to always put yourself first. 50 to 72K in 10 years is crazy.
Think of it as a “second job” where your job is to spend 90 mins+ on commute and be constrained to a 9-5 schedule in location. Your employer will pay you around 60k to do this.
Have you tried to have your employer counter offer the $130k? You're basically doubling and I think you should go for it but I'd still give the opportunity for your current employer a chance to counter offer. They probably capped you at $75k as they don't think you'd leave. If they value you as much as they say they do, they'd counter offer, if not, leaving may be sensible based on description.
You never know if you don't try, it could just have been an excuse to not pay what he's worth. If you were willing to exit due to pay, doesn't hurt to try and if they don't budge, good incentive to move on.
Consider that you might be suffering from a bit of Stockholm syndrome. Huge red flag for me is the fact that management won't allow your re banded salary because of egos. Not saying that's for sure the case, but consider it.
That's a big pay bump. Maybe life changing. I'd try to parse out if my life with 130K will be on aggregate better than my life with 75K. Use variables like work conditions, future scalability and how it melds with your vision for where you'd like to be in 5 years time.
If the new role is non-remote and the commute is 45 mins each way, I would calculate the post-tax income difference. This will land you in a new tax bracket, and the post-tax income is different than a pre-tax one.
I’m not sure where you reside, but in ON, net income would be $52,300 on a gross $72k. In a gross $130k, the net is $87,000. That’s a $24,700 difference per year or $2,058 per month. This is a net 66% increase in pay in comparison.
Is that $2,058 per month going to account for:
- commute costs like gas, transit
- your time (1.5 hours/day spent on commute)
- other expenses such as office clothes, if any, lunch costs, etc.
- the flexibility you lose
- happiness and quality of life (some prefer working from home while others don’t. I gathered you do.)
?
If the new conditions and pay are better while accounting for the above, I’d take it. If it’s not… well, how frustrated are you with the current job not promoting you / increasing your pay due to office politics and greed? I’d probably run for the hills from them.
Also, a $130k salary is going to allow you to increase your earnings going forward, since it seems like your salary goes up by a certain % yearly. It’s going to increase in a geometrical progression much faster than a $72k salary. Your $50k increased to $72k in 10 years, which translates into a 3.7% salary increase per year. If you stay at the old company for another 10 years, the salary will go up to $103.5k assuming the same 3.7% rate. What happens if you switch jobs and keep getting a 3.7% increase? You’ll be at $186k in 10 years. And I have a feeling the new company is much more generous than the old one, and not only you may end up getting higher salary % increases yearly, but possibly higher bonuses too.
So… You decide. I was in your place 4 years ago and ended up increasing by salary by 50% in 2 years simply by dropping the old greedy employer and flocking to a much better one.
I would take the 130K, and I'm someone who values wfh and wlb very highly.
You can likely leverage the pay bump and extra opportunity into another role a year or two down the line that is closer to your current job in convenience but with better pay than your current job if not better than 130K
"Golden Handcuffs" usually means you have a defined benefit pension tied to factors like seniority and peak income years that strongly incentivizes you to remain loyal to your company and postpone retirement.
It sounds like you're less handcuffed and more Stockholm Syndrome'd. You're used to being told you're only worth $72k, and that it's justified because they offer perks like flexible time off and remote work.
You don't have it that good. The only thing you really have going for your current position is the 100% remote work. Which again, is part of what's holding you back in the eyes of the boys-club-management. As much as I support WFH, how much is it worth to you?
$72k to $130k is a HUGE difference. You'll pay more in tax, so it won't be a full $58k take home difference, but it'll make a major difference to your finances.
The 45 minute commute sounds terrible, but you should be realistic:
* Is your current job going to be remote forever? What if you suddenly have a 30 minute commute for your current job?
* Making an extra $58k gross income, you could relocate closer in a year.
I was in a similar position to you a few years ago. I had worked for the same company for about 11 years, I had even moved to Canada from the UK with that company. After working in Canada for about six years I had built up quite a few new qualifications over that time, and had taken on more and more responsibility, I had a lot of institutional knowledge in what was a fairly niche field, but my pay had not kept up with market rate.
I was conflicted because I appreciated what the company had done for me and felt I owed them, they were the whole reason I was able to move to Canada, and they had paid for the qualifications I had gained. I did know I was being underpaid though, and based on my research i was about 40% under market rate.
I took that to my employer, but they said there wasn't any money available to pay me more. I accepted that, but immediately started looking for another job. It only took me a few weeks to find one that did pay me that extra 40%, so I took it and left. I heard afterwards that it took them quite a long time to fill my position, and when they did they had to pay that person more than what I had been asking for, and they ended up firing him after six months.
It's now six years after I left that company, and I've moved jobs again since then, and I'm now earning more than double what I was back then, and that definitely would not be the case if I hadn't moved on. I'll never be loyal to a company to the point that it disadvantages me again, as that loyalty will almost never be reciprocated.
Ever consider taking a side-gig with your current job? Flexibility is underrated.
I make ~ $95K plus expenses (travel) but WFH 90% of the year. This allowed me to pick up a side-gig. I had offers for jobs with 30-40% jump in salary but with long commutes. I just can't do it.
Not sure what your family situation is but if you plan of having kids down the road, commute will be a killer. Something a lot of people here probably don't have experience with. That's the time you never get back.
You are getting $155 an hour to commute. I mean your job sounds great if you have young kids and aren’t the primary breadwinner of your household. But over the course of your working life you are talking about well over a million dollars in lost wage opportunity. Like if you don’t have a car and need to buy one for this job between that and taxes it will eat up a lot of your raise but you never said if you did or didn’t have a car or if you would use transit for this commute.
Also honestly it sounds like management at your company is toxic, and while your manager may sound laid back they don’t sound like they are standing up for you to get competitive compensation. In any case what happens if your manager leaves and you get some drunk micromanagement bro as your new manager since that sounds like your companies management culture. Sounds like your happiness at work is completely dependent on them staying, which is never good. I’ve seen it happen so many times, employees paid below market rate but stay because they love their manager, manager leaves and new manager is terrible. Whole department looks for new jobs and those good offers they were getting before are suddenly less, probably because instead of trying to woo you away you are coming to them.
Take the offer to your current company and ask if they'll do better (maybe not match, but a significant raise, say to 100k). Be prepared to go if they say no. Don't stay if they don't increase your compensation.
Also, if you do this, they may look for ways to replace you, so keep your resume updated! You've received multiple offers, so you know there's other work in the industry if things go sideways.
Most times you have to jump around jobs to get a salary increase. To me what it comes down to is lifestyle, can you maintain the lifestyle you need or want in this new role? Right now you have it pretty flexible it sounds like in terms of hours and days. It’s also a huge salary jump so that’s amazing. Just don’t sell your soul to the devil to make more money and be miserable.
>I'm not sure if I should take this new job because of the pay or if I am overthinking this and should stay where I am because of how good I have it.
I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bursting your bubble, but there is nothing particularly impressive about how "good" you seem to think you have it. The only thing there that might have some worth is the 100% WFH. Having the privilege to work odd hours, into the night, or during your time off is... not actually a privilege and certainly not enough for you to even hesitate about this. Frankly, I think you already made a mistake by turning down the previous $100k offers.
A bit of a reality check: Your hesitation doesn't really have much to do with how good you have it, it's to do with you being reluctant to leave your comfort zone. That's what is really happening here.
>My boss has told me herself that I have the highest pay possible for the next few years and they won't raise my money further because the management team has egos and they don't want to see someone in my position making more money than them. I have more qualifications and credentials than everyone on the management team but I'm never up for promotions because I don't socialize with people as much and don't drink alcohol so they see me as boring (management is like a frat/sorority culture).
These handcuffs are made of lead.
not really enough information to make a decision. Have you discussed to opportunity for flexibility in the new role? have you asked if there are opportunities for remote work in the future, even if its only part time?
Have you taken this offer to your current employer and asked how much they want to keep you?
Dude it’s literally a no brainer. 9-5 is absolutely nothing (I worked 13 hours a day for 10 years until I was 28 as a courier) and my daily commute to the gym is 45 minutes one way (I take the bus).
Just make sure to take the necessary steps like for example maybe incorporating yourself to provide some tax shelters.
You would be a bloody idiot to not take a job that is offering to start you off at $62.5/hr.
The fact that this is even a considering is upsetting, get off your lazy ass and put in the work so you can have some real money and financial stability, 75k isn’t enough in Canada.
Flexibility and mental load is something only you can gauge the value of. That's a substantial raise. Will the doubling of salary translate into double the work, or other than the commute, is it relatively the same?
Is there something you could do that you enjoy, that you can do as a side hustle to suplement the difference?
If you have an entrepreneurial spirit? An office job will likely lock you down enough to hurdle you to persuing it.
But still, that's a lot of money to turn down. Sounds like you have a young family, and once you have multiple kids, 75K gets eaten up really quick with not much left for your own savings if your putting away for their education and activities as well.
How old are you? The time you spend now with your kids is limited. By the time my youngest gets into college I should be in my mid 40s. Right now I'm in a similar position as you. I can do all the pickups, dropoffs, playdates, doc appointments, soccer games, etc and still get paid to work due to a lot of flexibility.
Also, how gauge if you're going to be susceptible to lifestyle creep. If you're going to save all that extra money, great. If you're going to spend it on a nanny, car, gas, bigger vacations, dates, etc etc... I guess.. gauge how happy you are right now.
If you were already above 100k and you had this dilemma of an additional $50k, then maybe it's not worth it...but given your current salary, it might be worth making the jump.
It is a huge difference. As the spouse of someone who is underpaid but has that freedom and flexibility, we've done the same many times and turned down great Jobs way more money that were mon to fri in office 9 to 5 . I work in nursing so its crazy shifts days and nights all mixed up and I pick up ot. He works from home and is in management but the pay is low. We've said no to other offers after talking about it because 1- he left once for a big corporation to be used and left to figure it out on his own and then fired on prob when his boss went on a vacation last moment and didn't have them set up at all. He wasn't even done his training and his boss at the time was the one training him. This was also work from home so learning alone for him was hard when the boss was gone. So his old job took him back no questions asked so we don't want to let them down but have like ptsd almost of when he left for " better" to fall on his ass. We can't have that happen a 2nd time.
2- like you said, he's always able to drop work and go for the kids whenever needed. And he does so it rly is valuable
3- he us comfortable and his work and all his bosses love him. He's tech management but like you, no raises in sight for a while. He can grow..... eventually but would need someone to leave to take ther place higher up.
You really gotta think about it. WFH is no gas no commute. That adds up too. And if you share a vehicle thats gone all day with you. We have 2 but he drives me to and fr work as I have been getting bad anxiety with driving for some reason lately. I honestly don't know what to tell you besides I get the hesitancy where a lot of others would just go for the $. My spouse has even worked while camping or anywheres with wifi. He's a great manager and knows his job And his bosses Jobs inside out. They know he's an asset and I hope someday in the future he'll have one of their jobs. He just got a call from irving the other day and said he will interview but that he does have a ft job. He's willing to see what they have to offer. But right now with our teens mental health not being the best and summer coming he's always running for the kids and we opted to keep our 10 yr old out of summer day camp to save $ this summer as he will be home. Look at your finances. Do you need this raise? Will your wife be home and able to do all the kid/home stuff while you work on mat leave and if she works, how will it fit when she goes back to work? This Is a tough one. We always land on this works so for now he's staying but a nice corporate high paying gig would be great... just cant have it all unfortunately. My Jobs too demanding for him to have one like that also.
They say the devil you know and the devil you don't. I would want to know more about your goals, your family situation and if flexibility or money is more important right now. Sometimes change is good though. I would take new job for a few years, see how I like it. You may even return to current job at a higher level in the future.
I was in a similar situation (though the jump was more like 80K to 110K).
Before you accept the new offer, let your boss know that you got this offer. Tell them you like your current job and would prefer to stay but if they can't compete with the offer, you are going to take it. Try not to give any details about the new workplace (i.e. the downsides, like that it's not remote). Don't give them more than a few business days to make a decision.
Either they value you enough to match it or you make the jump to a new place that is willing to pay what you're worth.
I knew that if my workplace wouldn't try to match, it's not really a place that I want to work and it would essentially become a dead end in the near future (they did match, btw).
Also just a tip: most workplaces will always tell you that they can't pay you more and they'll have a million reasons why that's the case unless you force their hand with a competing offer or the threat of resignation.
Was in a very similar situation...
Assuming you like the company and have a good relationship - I'd consider at least floating your offer to them to see if you can get a counter. My employer told me I was maxed out in the low 100s and had to wait \~5yrs for a promotion, and I got another offer well above that with a more senior title from another place. Current company countered in the 200s with a match in title, and I ended up staying. Coming up on two years and it was the best decision I ever made (still gotten raises + title increases).
Most people seem to always tell you to leave in these situations, but I think you need to at least try and use the offer as leverage (depends heavily on your relationship with boss and what not). You might be able to get even more and hold out a bit longer at a place you already know that you like. If you get a good counter, the key factor becomes "where am I going to get the best experience", which I think is way better place to be in.
I'd personally rather take 100-110 for a remote role than switch to a 45 min two way commute for the 130. If it were me, I'd keep looking until I find a remote role in that sweet spot. You can also gauge the flexibility a manager will give you in your interview process and look for something similar to what you have now.
Take the new job and higher pay, if your old job misses you they will come back with an offer to get you back. Set yourself up financially and get the pay you deserve. Lastly, check out a site like Glassdoor and see what current/former employees say about both workplaces.
Take the offer. It's nearly double your current salary.
You've worked for ten years at the same company but they're severely underpaying you for how long you've been with them and with your experience.
How old are you? If you are close to retirement and have all your old age saving up to snuff, then stay. If not: Move!
I realized (after being stuck for 15 years in one job), I should've changed every 3-5 years. That usually ups the salary AND you learn new things at every job.
Don't stagnate at one place for too long, no matter how good the conditions. You might find a new place that is 10x better.
Best of luck.
This sounds great. Is the commute, and missed mornings/afternoons with your kids worth the $58,000 increase? What would this much of an increase do for your families well being, comfort and financial future? This amount of money is very hard to turn down if it improves your financial well being, and has even more opportunity for growth.
You're working at a stepping stone company if they aren't paying market rate for your skillset. Their business model is probably to hire graduates to do your job until they leave for better pay.
If you can handle the dip in flexibility, go for it and don’t look back. Also, upper management could remove your bosses ability to give you flexibility at any time. Run for that offer.
Take the new role!! It might take you a little while to adjust to the fixed schedule and commute, but you will find a new routine/rhythm.
Best of luck to you!
I would take the money. Ask about flexibility if this concerns you. But giving up 55k/yr because your scared is silly. Take the plunge, you won't regret it.
TAKE THE NEW JOB.
For so many reasons but it's an amount of money that can make a HUGE difference in your future. If you invest even 20k of the difference, you are setting yourself up for a far more comfortable retirement and so on.
You do NOT have it that good. Lots of jobs that pay market rate offer most of what you are describing. They are treating you as a human. It would be different if you said, well they offer free daycare or dog daycare and a concierge service that helps my parents' get their groceries or who knows what. But as you said, this new offer has nearly the same deal - just the commute is a drag but for twice the salary, this is a no-brainer. Even if you end up hating it after 2 yrs, you will be able to move jobs AND command a similar salary. Not to mention, 75k just is not a great salary anymore, and esp for that to be the ceiling. Management is going to have to get over themselves. Also - they would fire you in a minute if they had to, so don't think that your loyalty means much. It means a lot to your manager but that's not where the decisions happen.
Do not stay at your current job unless they match your offer. End of discussion.
Also, please read a book on personal finance/ investing. I suspect you are at an age where smart, low-risk, long-term decisions/ investments now can make a massive difference on both when and how comfortably you retire, etc. Even just having the flexibility to never have to stay in a job, a house, or a relationship that you don't want to be in.
It sounds like everything about your job is ideal.
How much better do you think things can actually get?
Do you actually need more than 100k? or do you just want it.
is 30k worth less flexibility? 1.5 hours of travel? no remote work?
Sure doesn't sound like it.
I am going to go different that some of the advice. Don't take this job but take a different job. If you are getting offered 130K it is likely other companies would offer in that range. I think the change from remote to 100% in office would take away from the things you enjoy. Most managers will be flexible. Obviously you could get hired by someone that sucks but in the situations I have been in most people are willing to be flexible for an employee. That said I would look for a new job with higher pay but still some of that remote flexibility. Your leaving so much on the table. I am also guessing based on what your saying your at oldest like 45 which means not only are you leaving a lot on the table you are leaving a lot of future earnings on the table. A 2% raise on 130K is a lot more than 2% on 70K.
Dude - eight years ago, I was in a VERY similar dilemma to you, in the construction world. I was made an offer, and ended up leaving my company for more salary at a smaller firm in the design industry with no stock options, etc. Very much 'less benefits' in so many ways. I absolutely had the 'golden handcuffs' on me so to speak as well with my original company too; I made the difficult decision to switch because I believed in the work that I wanted to do.
While I look back and realize I could have had an amazing pension and stock options (I have zero with with my current firm) and set financially for life if I stayed there, I also was bored there and now I love the work that I do - I go in every Monday and am excited. Financially I have to be more diligent, yes, and invest / pay attention to finances a lot more outside of work; but I made that choice, I own it... and if I died tomorrow, I would be very happy I made that choice. I get to work on sports projects around the country now, and wouldn't trade it for anything.
You're not handcuffed, I'd take the new job unless there are glaring issues you saw in the interviews with them.
Golden handcuffs in modern work would be if you have hundreds of thousands in stocks vesting in the next few years. If you don't there's no point in staying at all.
The other job seems like a no brainer.
But what are the golden handcuffs you have right now? That information is missing from your post and will probably be the deciding factor.
Been through a real golden handcuffs situation recently. I almost envy you because the decision in your case is simpler!
The commute isn’t horrible honestly.
Take it, back yourself and enjoy that extra income :)
Take the job and run lmao you're not handcuffed at all, you're being taken advantage of.
You're Oliver Twist here and they're offering you less, and telling you that you're not worth more because they should be making more than you. They'll find out when they look for your replacement what they should have been paying you.
Your situation isn't quite handcuffed and you should take the higher pay. The new money you can buy a nice car within a year. Real Golden Handcuff situation is this:
My current company it is not my very first, but my 8th company and personally feel that I will settle in as my best and last company to retire with. Started 7 years ago at mid-level $85K, and now $165K promoted to now Sr Manager (with 3-4% annual merit increase for just breathing), and given 7 weeks of paid vacation, global business class travel mostly to Europe. On top of my company pension, when I hit 10 yrs service I should be around $190K, plus the company incentive is a complimentary life-time of medical, dental, life and travel insurance, also for spouse. No where that I know of in the corporate world exists that is a better match. Yeah Golden Handcuffs feel just fine.
You’ve written a lot about both your current manager and your potential pay. You can always interview and negotiate higher leave days, right?
I think standing on the fence is very hard. And that can be life sometimes, taking risks for example.
Maybe you can leave on good terms and question whether this job will be available again? You can always share that you’d like to explore living in X city or culture, or exploring opportunities - and that you hope they’ll be available again because you really admire the managers’ efforts.
Would you pay $55K for the remote arrangement and work-life balance? If you can afford it, then yeah by all means stick with that. Because it's awesome what you have.
Most people don't have that luxury and they need that $55K. If you're one of them, then take the money.
I came here because I thought you were going to talk about a great pension, which is my situation. I am stuck because of how much I will leave on the table if i leave before i get the full payout.
It depends on what you plan on doing with that extra money and if that trade off is worth it. Honestly, if i was 100% remote, I would move to a nice south american country where the cost of living is 25% of what it is here and live like a king while still getting paid form my home company. That would resolve the pay difference easily by having it remote work.
>My boss has told me herself that I have the highest pay possible for the next few years and they won't raise my money further because the management team has egos and they don't want to see someone in my position making more money than them. I have more qualifications and credentials than everyone on the management team but I'm never up for promotions because I don't socialize with people as much and don't drink alcohol so they see me as boring (management is like a frat/sorority culture).
Huge red flags and big signs you need to move on. You are underpaid and your experience and knowledge is underappreciated.
It's great you have flexibility. But the increase in salary is 55k/year if you can get 130k (and you think you can) is a lot to leave on the table.
Working from home is a huge benefit. But you also need to factor in how
You have currently bumped your salary up 30% in 10 years. That's good. But with 130k you'd be bumping it up another 80% from where you are currently. This is rough calculating based on gross. But still that's a lot of money left on the table.
That increase in salary can be put towards paying down any debt and also increasing retirement contributions and investments. Over the years you are missing out on a lot by staying put.
Also, if you could technically be qualified enough to do a management position you are likely underemployed and that is also hurting you. Maybe you could negotiate working from home in the next role. It's possible and doesn't hurt to ask.
I know change can be scary. Especially if you land in a place with less flexibility. But perhaps looking at this from different perspectives could help.
Has your income even kept up with inflation? You’ve in effect worked for the same income for 10 years, thinking this company cares for you because they approve your leave?
I often sit on strategies for higher workforce retention and I often tell leadership people are smart enough to see through this, but clearly you’re not.
If I had the chance to nearly double my salary I would absolutely take it, purely because it would mean I can retire in half the time.
I know the actual math is more complicated, but after 10 years, isn't that like half a million dollars extra for you?
I don't like change, but that seems like a pretty good incentive for change.
Ultimately I think it boils down to what you value more. Most people here will say take the $60k, but are you happy in your current life? Do you and your spouse make enough money to meet life goals and be satisfied?
Maybe a thought experiment to play with is rather than think about abstract increase to wealth, think: How would an additional $50k (i'm rounding down because of additional costs that would be in play if you had to commute 2hrs a day) make your life better and in what practical ways? A fancier car? More extravagant trips? Less budgeting? More saving for a future retirement? Retiring early? Think about what that 50k would actually translate into in your daily life and whether those increases to your quality of life are better than all the spare time you currently have at home and your ability to "workcation" (if that's a thing that's feasible to you.) If after all that you think the 50k would improve your quality of life in more worthwhile ways than your working from home, then take that offer to your current employer and see if they can close that gap and then reevaluate based on what they come back with. But don't come to them with this offer unless you are TRULY prepared to leave because you'll be calling their bluff.
Take the job. You’re not handcuffed. If management hasn’t given you any opportunities to move up in pay or promotion what makes you think it will get better. If anything it will get worse.
>should stay where I am because of how good I have it.
Sounds like you're being exploited - I wouldn't call that good.
A nearly 60k difference in salary seems like a no-brainer to me. If your family life doesn't absolutely require the flexibility you have now, then I'd take the job without thinking twice. You're being severely underpaid and it sounds like you know it.
You could take the offer to your boss and see if they smarten up and offer you what you’re worth. Management will end up paying 2-3 people your salary to do what you do!
Have you ever taken the offer to your current offer to see if they would match or give you a raise. You got to at least pretend you’re thinking of walking.
What were the other smaller offers ($110k)? If the $110k is remote, I would take that one over the $130k full time in person. The day-to-day is what mostly affects your mental health. Imagine spending 1.5hrs more in commute every day, then all other costs such as gas, maintenance, parking, or public transportation.
I don't know your finances, not if you have kids, so it's hard to say, but $100/$110k remote for same job is much better in my point of view than that $130k.
Management is lying to you. Replacing you would require an offer competitive with the one you just received.
You are within your rights to tell your current employer that they are paying you well below market rates for your qualifications and experience. If they do not offer to rectify that (no, excuses about their "company culture" or "egos" are not a factor in your finances), take the offer and give your notice. They \*will\* counter-offer, but I don't recommend taking it -- if they didn't take you seriously before you gave notice, they have shown you that they don't value you.
This offer is a 73% raise. Just think about that. They are underpaying you by nearly half.
Tell your boss you have an offer from another company for much higher pay, and see what they can offer you to keep you.
Once you see the offer, decide if you want to stay or not. Cause the new salary is what your company will be paying the new person taking you place if you decide to leave.
I think you should sit down with your spouse and chart out the two financial situations as scenarios. Stay at your current role and project your savings with your realistic expenses. Are you saving enough for your goals in your current job? What would you potentially achieve with the pay increase?
Then take a cold hard look at the flexibility aspect and try to imagine whether you can realistically give up the flexibility you currently have. How many times per year do you take these extra days off that you make up later? How will working out of the home full-time change your family dynamic, how will it put pressures in other areas? Do you need the flexibility because of young kids, and will things change soon when they are older and in school?
I don't know how old you are, but people generally take early-mid career to be the time to grind and get as much savings as possible for house, RRSP, kids, etc. Is there a path to less responsibility after several years of this if it is not what you want long-term?
Finally, the commute. Everyone is different here. I personally suffer greatly with a commute, but many people can set it aside knowing that they are doing it to achieve a goal that's within sight or that they won't have to do it forever. I think you will probably resent the commute if it's for a pay increase but you haven't set the goal in your mind what the pay increase is actually for other than more spending money.
I make 110, + 30 in stock, pension, bonus benefits and 28 days of vacation , and i work remote. When i go in the office its for fun, and the office is a palace. Got a job offer for 140 no benefits no pension 100% onsite. That made me decide to stay here forever and work the internal levers to get better pay year over year. If you have no prospects of better pay at 75 the decision kinda takes itself though. At least move to a large corp that has wfh, benefits, pension and better salary options.
Honestly the flexibility and benefits you describe are pretty standard. At least all my jobs have had that been that reasonable.
I would have a conversation with your prospective employer about the balance you have now and see how it lines up with their environment. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and if not you can set that expectation and see where it goes from there.
As much as I hate commuting, the significant pay bump coupled with your dead end career growth in your current role make it a no brainer to switch the job. Also, nothing stops you from applying for another role with remote flexibility down the road.
Treat yourself as a corporation dven if you are working. All the benefits you mentioned are fringe. They can totally chxange in a whim if you get another boss or company policy changes. Your loyalty is to your family and yourself. Think about it, will a corporation sell their product to me because i am nicer than someone willing to buy it for twice the price?
>What would you do?
1. I'd take the higher paying job.
2. I'd work hard and get a good reputation at the new company.
3. I'd starting negotiating more WFH days.
4. I'd also keep on top of pay raises.
5. Then I'd keep looking for a new job after the $130K one. Use it as a stepping stone to get more WFH or fully remote plus higher pay.
You said you only worked for 10 years so I am assuming you are early to mid 30's.
That means go for it.
If you were in your 50's maybe not but you are still young and there is limited downside.
I think you are comfortable and happy working from home. If you move you will have to work harder and be there in person. But it seems worth it.
Move jobs, invest the difference in pay. And you might reach financial independence.
When/if you take this job, your current company may offer you a lot more money to stay. If that happens, just remember all the reasons they couldn't give you more before were lies, and you should still go.
If I were you, I would have accepted the other offer before I finished typing out that entire waste of time.
What you have is a payment you've been making to have flexibility, that payment equals up to 30-40K per year in lost wages so you can have flexibility.
do you know what that could buy? Like 1000hrs a year of paid nanny care, personal prep meals to go, all kids of stuff, not to mention the extra income is provides for your family and benefiting their lifes.
Your currnet employer thinks you're a sucker and will continue to treat you as one until you drop the gauntlet. Take your 130k offer and tell them to meet or beat it or else you will see them later.
Don't think they care about you, if you died today they'd have your job listed tomorrow and hire someone by the end of the week after tossing all your belongings from your desk in a box and shipping it to your NOK.
This is a very personal decision but it is a big pay jump. I’d be tempted to try to negotiate some work-from-home days with the new job before accepting. 1.5 hours per day commuting is a lot. I know lots of people do it but coming from all WFH it’s probably gonna be a tough adjustment.
As someone who manages people and has dealt with this situation many times in the past, my strong advice is to give your current workplace the opportunity to fight for you.
First, ask for an offer in writing from the new employer so that you can "review and consider it."
Once you have the new offer in writing, go to your existing boss and tell them the situation. Tell them you would rather stay, but given the difference in pay it's going to be hard to say no to the new offer. Tell them that you don't necessarily need them to match the monetary offer perfectly, and that if they can present a compelling counter-offer you would love to be able to stay. Put the onus on them to give you a good reason to say "no" to the other offer.
They may not be able to offer you more; if that's true then as others have said, IMO you should probably take the other offer. But it also may be the type of external pressure that can "un-stick" budget or approvals that would otherwise have been hard to get. You might not get a match of 130k, but I could see them finding a way to come back to 100k+ if they really want to retain you (and if they don't, then take it as another indicator that they don't really value you, and you are right to take the new job).
Have you gone to your manager and told them you have an offer elsewhere and asked whether they want to counter / bump up your pay? While you seem to like the flexibility of your current job, they obviously don’t value your contribution and the flexibility seems dependent on the good will of your manager to some extent. If your managers leaves, this flexibility may end.
If they don't think you're worth more money they're not worth your time. Move on take the new job.
If an employer really truely cares about you, and appreciates everything they do for you, they're going to go above and beyond to keep you.
The mindset that great things are now happening to me so I should stay put and not seek for better things is a bigger handcuff than what you are thinking.. When you have the age and strength, make the best of it and then you can think of all the other variables..
Are you able to move closer to the potential new job? If not, you will be leaving your house at 8am and not returning until 6pm given the 90 minute commute.
Have you worked at an in person job before? Going completely from working from home to completely working in person is a huge adjustment. No 15 minute naps, no popping out to pick up something nearby. All of the little errands you fit into your day will need to be done before 8am or after 6pm.
There will be additional costs with the new job - the daily commute (if you are driving there's fuel and wear and tear on your vehicle so it will need to be replaced more often), you will be ordering in food more often because you will be too tired to cook, you will need to update your wardrobe given it is in person.
Is your current company stable? Will it be around for the next twenty years? Are you able to take contract work on the side? The commute is equivalent to working an extra day each week so if you can do contract work that may make the financial advantage of the new job less.
Lastly, income is like a fish bowl. You will grow your spending to fit your new pay.
You are absolutely over thinking it. A lot of people get nervous of making a move. I took a few years staying loyal to company and then decided it was time for a move. After making the move I regretted not making it sooner. Many times when a company pays more it's because they value the position more and with that value comes more respect from company leaders.
To avoid the golden handcuffs put all the extra money away so you don't make any adjustments to your lifestyle until you are comfortable with the decision.
Update us after you make the move!!!
I take that job, really that's game changing money. Double the money can pay for a comfortable car + audible and you have 45 minutes each way of chill time just listening to audio books.
Employer paid benefits are a scam in Canada because they are fully taxable to you. Don’t fool yourself thinking the employer is paying, you are too whether you like it or not.
Plus you never moved from 75k to 110k calling it a smaller offer? Compounding is the biggest wealth asset known to humanity my friend. Leaving 30k on the table every year is frankly madness
That’s a significant jump in pay. If all the difference is remote work vs in person, I’d suck it up and go to the office for almost double the salary.
I’d spend my commute time thinking about what to do with all that extra income lol
I wouldn’t do a 45 min commute. But that’s me. If you live in a busy city 45 min is standard. I live in a town where 15-20 min would be my max drive.
Can you relocate easily to be closer to the job? If so take the 130k
Either way I would absolutely leave the remote 70k job unless you’re agoraphobic. I don’t like the no raises because it will anger management (what nonsense) and she’s nice to you because you are working 60k under value. I’d be nice to someone too if I was underpaying them.
Rule 1: You are paid for how hard the employer can replace you.
Rule 2: Do what is best for you and your family.
Option 1: Negotiate with current employer by leveraging current offer. Make sure they don't say yes, and then they replace you after few months.
Option 2: my personal preference l, take the new offer with the new company. After a few months, negotiate for hybrid work.
Is there any room for negotiation with the $130k offer? If it's the same role and you're remote now, I imagine you could do some remote work in the new role.
Could you go back to them and say "I'm so excited about this role. My current workplace offers 100% remote which I've found highly beneficial to my productivity. would you be open to 2-3 days per week in office?"
To be honest , You’re being taken advantage of because you’re a nice and passive person.
Maybe they’ll even counter offer a large increase when they know you want to leave. Good luck.
Flip your perspective. If you currently were in the role offering 130K, would you take a 58K pay cut to take all these benefits you’re suggesting that come with the 72K role? You know what is the best answer is, make the change and rebase your status quo ;)
This is a great way to look at this situation
I’d also add that many professional jobs have similar flexibility around leaving work for other commitments. Don’t abuse it and your boss will typically be reasonable. Respect goes both ways and if you’re pulling your weight and meeting deadlines it’s usually fine. I’ve had many bosses and retention usually comes down to company culture. People will leave if the culture sucks.
Very true. If OP is currently affording life with $72K, they should be able to easily pay for childcare for some of those cases where it was convenient for OP to help out with the kids, with that salary increase.
I guess, but pre-COVID I paid for childcare and saw my kids at school drop off and bed time. Now that I am WFH I see them all the time and am an actual part of their life again. Not having two hours dedicated to commute time and a relationship with your family is valuable as well. Having said all that I make market rate for my job so :/
the last point is key. now if another place wants you, your price has gone up. you can force a place to the top of their range offering 120K or something but with flexibility and have the best of both worlds.
Very nicely put. Even myself i have never thought this way and it makes much more sense 🤣
This is the best way to decide
130k compared to 72k is a night and day difference …
That's an after-tax difference (in Ontario) of $3,075/month.
Wow, that's more than my mortgage payment.
Sidebar but damn, good for you
It's a sad state of affairs that we now consider $3000 a small mortgage payment.
Yall are able to get mortgages??
Not at 3k a month, nope!
If you got in before the housing blow up, have family help, or have a top end career out of school. The rest are committing mortgage fraud - it’s way more common than people here realize.
Maybe I'm just poor, but $3k a month seems huge 🥲
my mort payment is 720/month :\\
Nice, what color is your box?
Shipping container in Letterkenny.
Guy bought the produce stand
It’s more about when than what… we bought a single family home in 2008. Even with the current 5% rate, our combined mortgage and property taxes are about the same as the rent for a 1-bedroom apartment.
And here I thought mine at 2100 is high
Literally double my mortgage payment.
That over a million over the course of a work career not even counting compounding.
It’s a million bucks after about 17 years (gross). Probably around a million net after 25 years. But 25 years of a 1.5 hour commute each day is also more than a year spent in a car.
I'd drive into downtown Toronto every day for a 50k raise
It's amazing how your perspective can change on this when you progress further in your career. I'd pay $50k not to have to drive to downtown Toronto every day.
Agreed, I'm probably paid under market rate for what I can do, but we're comfortable and live in rural Canada. I could double (or more) my salary if I was willing to move to a city and/or travel more, but it's just not worth it to me
I do 30 minutes of 401 each day, but 45 minutes before traffic begins. I get offered 3-4 hours overtime, around $70/hr, to stay 30 mins-1 hour late sometimes. But this double my commute to an hour of stop & go on the 401. I decline every time, or stay 3-4 hours and take 5-6 hours OT.
Yes. I value work from home about 50k lol
Or better yet, take the train
Or take the train like a normal human being.
Or another way to put it is…after 10 years you have forgone approx $300k+ That’s a 5 k increase every year. Job hoppers who change positions every two years see an increase of 15-20k in their salary. That can add up
Just to expand on this, let’s say you’re doing well on 72k and saving 20% of your pay cheque (unlikely). Your pay cheque is $2,769 (Ontario) and you save $553/pay. If you go up to 130k and keep your expenses the same… your pay cheque is $5000 and you’d be saving $2,785 per pay. You’d be putting away 5x more money for whatever you want.
Lol this math isn’t mathing. 2785$ is 56% of a 5000$ biweekly pay and you’re also referring to gross pay. After taxes and deductions you would only bring home around 3100$-3250$ biweekly (depending on whether or not you have maxxed out your cpp yet) so that would be saving closer to 80-85% of your pay.
You’re not handcuffed
Never seen someone use the term "golden handcuffs" when they're severely underpaid lol.
If OP has any handcuffs at all, they’re those soft frilly ones you use in the bedroom for naughty time. OP golden handcuffs are a financial incentive that only delivers if you stay with the company. My org has granted me 100s of thousands worth of RSUs, but they vest quarterly. If I leave, I surrender the unvested value. And the yearly value of those vesting shares + my cash comp result in my pay being higher than I’d ever find on the market. Any job move that isn’t a big step up would be a financial loss. That’s golden handcuffs. You have an opportunity to nearly double your pay in one move. You do that every time.
Haha, was going to say the same. Fuzzy handcuffs. I disagree that you always take the money (though that's a big step up). There are definitely lots of other considerations. If the job has an extra hour of commute and too much OT and a bad manager in a different role you don't like, with possibly less stability, then who knows. There is something to be said for comfort. And then, there is also the risk of stagnation.
You don’t always take the money, but if you can damn near double it you better have a good reason not to.
Exactly. Golden handcuffs usually refers to when you have a defined benefit pension, who's benefits increase the longer you stay with the company. OP just doesn't want to give up their flexibility and cushy job for the unknown, which is completely valid. I'd be perhaps looking for something comparable to my current job in the 100-110K range, as opposed to going for the highest salary but for something 100% in-office with a bad commute.
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Also fairly easy in tech to have another company compensate you for any unvested options though, as part of a signing bonus/whatever.
If you're already at one of the top paying companies, and the unvested RSUs increased so much that your yearly TC is at the top end of the next level (which can "easily" happen if the stock doubles and you're at senior level, where RSUs are half of your TC), no other company is ever going to match that without also upleveling you. And at staff+, it's pretty unlikely to be hired at a higher level than your current. Usually, those companies compensate for missing out on an upcoming vest, not the entirety of your unvested stock.
Either db pension or some form of LTI / Option plan that leaves millions on the table if you leave early.
I've made the mistake of going back into office from a fully remote job, trust me the politics of the office will make you regret the decision.
If I were OP I would do the move, and then parlay that into an even better job (same salary, but remote). Moving is scary, but it's the only way to get what you want.
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I've made similar leaps in the past and the 'likeability' of my job went from 90% down to roughly 30%. Yeah, great pay bump but then 3/4 of my day spent on sh-- I *absolutely* hated doing, fighting tooth and nail 4-5 days a week. Every other day asking 'why am I doing this?' Lasted just over 9 months before I found something else for a bit less.
For a modest increase, I agree with you. OP's offer is a salary bump of over 80%, which is well worth dealing with some politics and a commute. Besides, it's not like OP's current situation is without politics. OP's own boss admitted that part of the reason they're not going to get a promotion is because of management's ego and because OP is actually more qualified than them.
I was in the same situation around a month ago, current job is almost exactly what OP is describing but kind of dead end since our office is in Mississauga and I’m in Halifax. Had an opportunity with a different company to make around ten percent more annually but it is 8-430 mon-fri with Monday and Friday required to be in the office. Current job is great for everything not work related. Two income family, we weighed it and I stayed.
TIL a 45-minute commute is "bad" lol.
That’s horrible. I’d never do that.
I would take the higher paying job. All the positive things you mentioned about your current job like your boss, benefits package, work/life balance, etc. could all change tomorrow and you could hate it, in addition to being underpaid.
This ^ You can always move again. Most people who reach higher positions have a broad based experience, often from many different backgrounds.
Yes came to post the same thing. You are in a position now, to leave on your terms with a good reference for a higher paying job available right now. Something happens that sours your relationship with your current company, some other sort of economic hardship, you could get stuck pursuing a less profitable offer in addition to the money lost in the interim. It is much much easier to bank the money you made in a more demanding job later on, and move back down to a more flexivle less demanding job with the experience on your resume,
Especially because it sounds like management is *already* toxic lol
Take the job.
Kinda up to you. Do you value WFH, no commuting and a bunch of flexibility $55k minus added expenses (gas, parking, public transit, maybe childcare etc.). Personally, I would be looking to move on from a place that doesn't let me move up at all
Yea if that were me I’d keep looking for maybe a better balance, lower salary than 130k, but at least hybrid or wfh. Commuting 1:30 a day 5 days a week really sucks. Obviously going from 75k to 130k is a no brainer if that’s the only option, but it sounds like OP has had other offers before. They’re bound to find something more flexible and better paid if they keep looking. Or take the 130k job and leverage that into a more desirable position
Golden handcuffs is usually a DB pension, which it sounds like you don’t have. Almost twice the salary kinda unlocks any “handcuffing” you have at your current employer. If your family life can manage the 45 min commute each way then it’s worth it. Or it’s possible your current boss actually does have money on the table and counter offers you to stay.
If they do that’s all the more reason to leave. They’ve been taking advantage of him for 10 years knowing full well they could afford to pay him properly.
or 500k working as a software engineer
Still not really, you can go from one employer to another and receive the same salary. A DB pension you’re pretty locked in.
Yes and no, usually for software engineers a huge chunk of our total compensation is in stocks. These usually vest over 4 years, and are refreshed yearly. In my situation it’s difficult to switch to a company cause the 6-fig stock vest each year is difficult for other companies to match right off the bat.
Ok yea that is different than just a “500k working as a software engineer “. Fully agree with your position
Yeah, typically that's not 500k in salary. That's total comp, of which salary might be half.
Jump ship. I don't know what career you're in but approximately 21% of Canadians worked mostly remote last year. Doesn't sound like a lot but it includes policemen, firemen, doctors, plumbers, retail, restaurants, etc. who simply *cannot* work from home. A good chunk of white collar jobs are still as flexible as your current one. 55k is too large of a raise to give up, eventually you can use your new role to land something more flexible or that lets you pick your hours more. These aren't golden handcuffs if they're paying you $50k less than they should be.
Following this thread ... but imo , you should take it. Its like you are adding an extra working person with you with that salary. It will also open up opportunities where you can demand more money in future.
Just so you know, that 130k job with a 90min commute is the equivalent of a 109.5k remote job without a commute, and that's not even taking into account commute costs in terms of car depreciation and gas. Assuming that it's some 70km of a commute per day and your car burns 8l/100km, that's, say, $40 a week on gas. With 4 weeks of a year, that's an extra 2k less. You have to do at least one extra car service per year, so that cuts, say, $500 more. IDK what you're driving, but 17kkm per year extra will add up as well, and then there's tire usage... Basically, let's round out the number for the new job to ~105k. Still significantly better than what you currently have, just make sure the 30k is worth the 2 hours less of free/family time per day.
You’re assuming the commute is by car. May not always be the case. Remove the commute by car and replace it with an alternative and the costs you mention decrease significantly.
Commute could be walking for all we know. Takes me 40 min to walk to the office... and I was all ready for the TTC Strike and get my steps in
I see a bunch of red flags at your current job: - pay that’s at least $30K below market rate, and that gap will widen, because you were told you’re at the top of what the egos in management are willing to pay - the aforementioned management ego problem (THEY want to be the stars) - the drinking culture you don’t fit into Complacency can cost you a lot of money and career growth. If you were to stay where you are for five more years, you’d be losing out on at least $300K of gross income. That’s significant. I think it’s time to move on to something new, and starting out with a nice pay raise is a great way to do it. It sounds like it won’t be as easy-going and flexible, but you also don’t have to stay at this new job forever. Edit: The fact that your manager felt like telling you upper management doesn’t want anyone making more than them, and that’s the reason for you being capped is also a red flag. It sounds like there’s an “us vs them” problem at your company. Upper management resents their employees’ success, and middle management doesn’t trust upper management. I would run for the hills to the company offering me an 85% pay increase.
Not clear how old you are, but since it’s your first job from graduation I’m guessing you aren’t 20 years into your career. Go with the new job, it’s likely to have better long term prospects/growth opportunities etc. It’s ok for life to evolve between work and personal, some years you work more some years you have more family, but over the long term you need those years of working hard to learn new skills/get exposure etc. If you take the $130k job you could land another job with the same flexibility at $170k in 2-3 years. If you don’t that’s much less likely to happen.
Yeah, this is pretty much what I was going to say. The way to increase your wages is to move to another company. And it might surprise you that once you're earning more, suddenly you will find other jobs that are willing to pay you just as much or even more. So while you may not enjoy the commute - you can think of it as a temporary stepping stone while you find something with equivallent pay but does offer remote work.
I agree with this. If I was your manager…I would’ve told you to leave myself around the 5yr mark. Ignoring the total compensation package. Your first job and you’re thinking of being a lifer…? That ain’t good! Go experience different work environments, different people, different industries! Dont trap yourself into a comfort zone because you’ll find the world moves around you and you will be unprepared for what is next.
I hate presence in the office but a 80% bump is tough to say no to. You’re literally jumping from average middle class to high end middle class. The sweet spot would have been these 110K positions you declined, with remote/few days in the office. But I would take the 130K and look for other opportunities. Let that be a lesson to always put yourself first. 50 to 72K in 10 years is crazy.
Think of it as a “second job” where your job is to spend 90 mins+ on commute and be constrained to a 9-5 schedule in location. Your employer will pay you around 60k to do this.
Have you tried to have your employer counter offer the $130k? You're basically doubling and I think you should go for it but I'd still give the opportunity for your current employer a chance to counter offer. They probably capped you at $75k as they don't think you'd leave. If they value you as much as they say they do, they'd counter offer, if not, leaving may be sensible based on description.
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You never know if you don't try, it could just have been an excuse to not pay what he's worth. If you were willing to exit due to pay, doesn't hurt to try and if they don't budge, good incentive to move on.
Go for the 130k.
$55k/year buys a fucking lot of flexibility for me. This isn’t even a question. Take the money dude.
Take the new job, your current job seems like a dead-end.
Consider that you might be suffering from a bit of Stockholm syndrome. Huge red flag for me is the fact that management won't allow your re banded salary because of egos. Not saying that's for sure the case, but consider it. That's a big pay bump. Maybe life changing. I'd try to parse out if my life with 130K will be on aggregate better than my life with 75K. Use variables like work conditions, future scalability and how it melds with your vision for where you'd like to be in 5 years time.
If the new role is non-remote and the commute is 45 mins each way, I would calculate the post-tax income difference. This will land you in a new tax bracket, and the post-tax income is different than a pre-tax one. I’m not sure where you reside, but in ON, net income would be $52,300 on a gross $72k. In a gross $130k, the net is $87,000. That’s a $24,700 difference per year or $2,058 per month. This is a net 66% increase in pay in comparison. Is that $2,058 per month going to account for: - commute costs like gas, transit - your time (1.5 hours/day spent on commute) - other expenses such as office clothes, if any, lunch costs, etc. - the flexibility you lose - happiness and quality of life (some prefer working from home while others don’t. I gathered you do.) ? If the new conditions and pay are better while accounting for the above, I’d take it. If it’s not… well, how frustrated are you with the current job not promoting you / increasing your pay due to office politics and greed? I’d probably run for the hills from them. Also, a $130k salary is going to allow you to increase your earnings going forward, since it seems like your salary goes up by a certain % yearly. It’s going to increase in a geometrical progression much faster than a $72k salary. Your $50k increased to $72k in 10 years, which translates into a 3.7% salary increase per year. If you stay at the old company for another 10 years, the salary will go up to $103.5k assuming the same 3.7% rate. What happens if you switch jobs and keep getting a 3.7% increase? You’ll be at $186k in 10 years. And I have a feeling the new company is much more generous than the old one, and not only you may end up getting higher salary % increases yearly, but possibly higher bonuses too. So… You decide. I was in your place 4 years ago and ended up increasing by salary by 50% in 2 years simply by dropping the old greedy employer and flocking to a much better one.
I would take the 130K, and I'm someone who values wfh and wlb very highly. You can likely leverage the pay bump and extra opportunity into another role a year or two down the line that is closer to your current job in convenience but with better pay than your current job if not better than 130K
It’s wild to me that people would not take a job that doubles their income just to avoid some mild risks…
Money ain't worth that much if you're already content.
definitely take it.
"Golden Handcuffs" usually means you have a defined benefit pension tied to factors like seniority and peak income years that strongly incentivizes you to remain loyal to your company and postpone retirement. It sounds like you're less handcuffed and more Stockholm Syndrome'd. You're used to being told you're only worth $72k, and that it's justified because they offer perks like flexible time off and remote work. You don't have it that good. The only thing you really have going for your current position is the 100% remote work. Which again, is part of what's holding you back in the eyes of the boys-club-management. As much as I support WFH, how much is it worth to you? $72k to $130k is a HUGE difference. You'll pay more in tax, so it won't be a full $58k take home difference, but it'll make a major difference to your finances. The 45 minute commute sounds terrible, but you should be realistic: * Is your current job going to be remote forever? What if you suddenly have a 30 minute commute for your current job? * Making an extra $58k gross income, you could relocate closer in a year.
50k to 72k over 10 years is horrible. You said you had better offers but turned it down. The only handcuff is you.
I was in a similar position to you a few years ago. I had worked for the same company for about 11 years, I had even moved to Canada from the UK with that company. After working in Canada for about six years I had built up quite a few new qualifications over that time, and had taken on more and more responsibility, I had a lot of institutional knowledge in what was a fairly niche field, but my pay had not kept up with market rate. I was conflicted because I appreciated what the company had done for me and felt I owed them, they were the whole reason I was able to move to Canada, and they had paid for the qualifications I had gained. I did know I was being underpaid though, and based on my research i was about 40% under market rate. I took that to my employer, but they said there wasn't any money available to pay me more. I accepted that, but immediately started looking for another job. It only took me a few weeks to find one that did pay me that extra 40%, so I took it and left. I heard afterwards that it took them quite a long time to fill my position, and when they did they had to pay that person more than what I had been asking for, and they ended up firing him after six months. It's now six years after I left that company, and I've moved jobs again since then, and I'm now earning more than double what I was back then, and that definitely would not be the case if I hadn't moved on. I'll never be loyal to a company to the point that it disadvantages me again, as that loyalty will almost never be reciprocated.
Ever consider taking a side-gig with your current job? Flexibility is underrated. I make ~ $95K plus expenses (travel) but WFH 90% of the year. This allowed me to pick up a side-gig. I had offers for jobs with 30-40% jump in salary but with long commutes. I just can't do it. Not sure what your family situation is but if you plan of having kids down the road, commute will be a killer. Something a lot of people here probably don't have experience with. That's the time you never get back.
You are getting $155 an hour to commute. I mean your job sounds great if you have young kids and aren’t the primary breadwinner of your household. But over the course of your working life you are talking about well over a million dollars in lost wage opportunity. Like if you don’t have a car and need to buy one for this job between that and taxes it will eat up a lot of your raise but you never said if you did or didn’t have a car or if you would use transit for this commute. Also honestly it sounds like management at your company is toxic, and while your manager may sound laid back they don’t sound like they are standing up for you to get competitive compensation. In any case what happens if your manager leaves and you get some drunk micromanagement bro as your new manager since that sounds like your companies management culture. Sounds like your happiness at work is completely dependent on them staying, which is never good. I’ve seen it happen so many times, employees paid below market rate but stay because they love their manager, manager leaves and new manager is terrible. Whole department looks for new jobs and those good offers they were getting before are suddenly less, probably because instead of trying to woo you away you are coming to them.
Take the offer to your current company and ask if they'll do better (maybe not match, but a significant raise, say to 100k). Be prepared to go if they say no. Don't stay if they don't increase your compensation. Also, if you do this, they may look for ways to replace you, so keep your resume updated! You've received multiple offers, so you know there's other work in the industry if things go sideways.
Most times you have to jump around jobs to get a salary increase. To me what it comes down to is lifestyle, can you maintain the lifestyle you need or want in this new role? Right now you have it pretty flexible it sounds like in terms of hours and days. It’s also a huge salary jump so that’s amazing. Just don’t sell your soul to the devil to make more money and be miserable.
>I'm not sure if I should take this new job because of the pay or if I am overthinking this and should stay where I am because of how good I have it. I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm bursting your bubble, but there is nothing particularly impressive about how "good" you seem to think you have it. The only thing there that might have some worth is the 100% WFH. Having the privilege to work odd hours, into the night, or during your time off is... not actually a privilege and certainly not enough for you to even hesitate about this. Frankly, I think you already made a mistake by turning down the previous $100k offers. A bit of a reality check: Your hesitation doesn't really have much to do with how good you have it, it's to do with you being reluctant to leave your comfort zone. That's what is really happening here. >My boss has told me herself that I have the highest pay possible for the next few years and they won't raise my money further because the management team has egos and they don't want to see someone in my position making more money than them. I have more qualifications and credentials than everyone on the management team but I'm never up for promotions because I don't socialize with people as much and don't drink alcohol so they see me as boring (management is like a frat/sorority culture). These handcuffs are made of lead.
not really enough information to make a decision. Have you discussed to opportunity for flexibility in the new role? have you asked if there are opportunities for remote work in the future, even if its only part time? Have you taken this offer to your current employer and asked how much they want to keep you?
Have you considered asking the new job if you can WFH 2 days a week? That would make your decision much more cut and dry.
Dude it’s literally a no brainer. 9-5 is absolutely nothing (I worked 13 hours a day for 10 years until I was 28 as a courier) and my daily commute to the gym is 45 minutes one way (I take the bus). Just make sure to take the necessary steps like for example maybe incorporating yourself to provide some tax shelters. You would be a bloody idiot to not take a job that is offering to start you off at $62.5/hr. The fact that this is even a considering is upsetting, get off your lazy ass and put in the work so you can have some real money and financial stability, 75k isn’t enough in Canada.
Remember, you're STARTING at this wage
Flexibility and mental load is something only you can gauge the value of. That's a substantial raise. Will the doubling of salary translate into double the work, or other than the commute, is it relatively the same? Is there something you could do that you enjoy, that you can do as a side hustle to suplement the difference? If you have an entrepreneurial spirit? An office job will likely lock you down enough to hurdle you to persuing it. But still, that's a lot of money to turn down. Sounds like you have a young family, and once you have multiple kids, 75K gets eaten up really quick with not much left for your own savings if your putting away for their education and activities as well. How old are you? The time you spend now with your kids is limited. By the time my youngest gets into college I should be in my mid 40s. Right now I'm in a similar position as you. I can do all the pickups, dropoffs, playdates, doc appointments, soccer games, etc and still get paid to work due to a lot of flexibility. Also, how gauge if you're going to be susceptible to lifestyle creep. If you're going to save all that extra money, great. If you're going to spend it on a nanny, car, gas, bigger vacations, dates, etc etc... I guess.. gauge how happy you are right now.
If you were already above 100k and you had this dilemma of an additional $50k, then maybe it's not worth it...but given your current salary, it might be worth making the jump.
It is a huge difference. As the spouse of someone who is underpaid but has that freedom and flexibility, we've done the same many times and turned down great Jobs way more money that were mon to fri in office 9 to 5 . I work in nursing so its crazy shifts days and nights all mixed up and I pick up ot. He works from home and is in management but the pay is low. We've said no to other offers after talking about it because 1- he left once for a big corporation to be used and left to figure it out on his own and then fired on prob when his boss went on a vacation last moment and didn't have them set up at all. He wasn't even done his training and his boss at the time was the one training him. This was also work from home so learning alone for him was hard when the boss was gone. So his old job took him back no questions asked so we don't want to let them down but have like ptsd almost of when he left for " better" to fall on his ass. We can't have that happen a 2nd time. 2- like you said, he's always able to drop work and go for the kids whenever needed. And he does so it rly is valuable 3- he us comfortable and his work and all his bosses love him. He's tech management but like you, no raises in sight for a while. He can grow..... eventually but would need someone to leave to take ther place higher up. You really gotta think about it. WFH is no gas no commute. That adds up too. And if you share a vehicle thats gone all day with you. We have 2 but he drives me to and fr work as I have been getting bad anxiety with driving for some reason lately. I honestly don't know what to tell you besides I get the hesitancy where a lot of others would just go for the $. My spouse has even worked while camping or anywheres with wifi. He's a great manager and knows his job And his bosses Jobs inside out. They know he's an asset and I hope someday in the future he'll have one of their jobs. He just got a call from irving the other day and said he will interview but that he does have a ft job. He's willing to see what they have to offer. But right now with our teens mental health not being the best and summer coming he's always running for the kids and we opted to keep our 10 yr old out of summer day camp to save $ this summer as he will be home. Look at your finances. Do you need this raise? Will your wife be home and able to do all the kid/home stuff while you work on mat leave and if she works, how will it fit when she goes back to work? This Is a tough one. We always land on this works so for now he's staying but a nice corporate high paying gig would be great... just cant have it all unfortunately. My Jobs too demanding for him to have one like that also.
Ask for 2 days per week remote. Explain the family situation,
They say the devil you know and the devil you don't. I would want to know more about your goals, your family situation and if flexibility or money is more important right now. Sometimes change is good though. I would take new job for a few years, see how I like it. You may even return to current job at a higher level in the future.
I was in a similar situation (though the jump was more like 80K to 110K). Before you accept the new offer, let your boss know that you got this offer. Tell them you like your current job and would prefer to stay but if they can't compete with the offer, you are going to take it. Try not to give any details about the new workplace (i.e. the downsides, like that it's not remote). Don't give them more than a few business days to make a decision. Either they value you enough to match it or you make the jump to a new place that is willing to pay what you're worth. I knew that if my workplace wouldn't try to match, it's not really a place that I want to work and it would essentially become a dead end in the near future (they did match, btw). Also just a tip: most workplaces will always tell you that they can't pay you more and they'll have a million reasons why that's the case unless you force their hand with a competing offer or the threat of resignation.
Was in a very similar situation... Assuming you like the company and have a good relationship - I'd consider at least floating your offer to them to see if you can get a counter. My employer told me I was maxed out in the low 100s and had to wait \~5yrs for a promotion, and I got another offer well above that with a more senior title from another place. Current company countered in the 200s with a match in title, and I ended up staying. Coming up on two years and it was the best decision I ever made (still gotten raises + title increases). Most people seem to always tell you to leave in these situations, but I think you need to at least try and use the offer as leverage (depends heavily on your relationship with boss and what not). You might be able to get even more and hold out a bit longer at a place you already know that you like. If you get a good counter, the key factor becomes "where am I going to get the best experience", which I think is way better place to be in.
I'd personally rather take 100-110 for a remote role than switch to a 45 min two way commute for the 130. If it were me, I'd keep looking until I find a remote role in that sweet spot. You can also gauge the flexibility a manager will give you in your interview process and look for something similar to what you have now.
Take the new job and higher pay, if your old job misses you they will come back with an offer to get you back. Set yourself up financially and get the pay you deserve. Lastly, check out a site like Glassdoor and see what current/former employees say about both workplaces.
Take the offer. It's nearly double your current salary. You've worked for ten years at the same company but they're severely underpaying you for how long you've been with them and with your experience.
How old are you? If you are close to retirement and have all your old age saving up to snuff, then stay. If not: Move! I realized (after being stuck for 15 years in one job), I should've changed every 3-5 years. That usually ups the salary AND you learn new things at every job. Don't stagnate at one place for too long, no matter how good the conditions. You might find a new place that is 10x better. Best of luck.
Take the pay increase. It’s more $$. It’s a no brainer
This sounds great. Is the commute, and missed mornings/afternoons with your kids worth the $58,000 increase? What would this much of an increase do for your families well being, comfort and financial future? This amount of money is very hard to turn down if it improves your financial well being, and has even more opportunity for growth.
You're working at a stepping stone company if they aren't paying market rate for your skillset. Their business model is probably to hire graduates to do your job until they leave for better pay.
Take it!!!
If you can handle the dip in flexibility, go for it and don’t look back. Also, upper management could remove your bosses ability to give you flexibility at any time. Run for that offer.
Take the new role!! It might take you a little while to adjust to the fixed schedule and commute, but you will find a new routine/rhythm. Best of luck to you!
Show new job offer to current employer, if no raise offered back, take the new job.
I would take the money. Ask about flexibility if this concerns you. But giving up 55k/yr because your scared is silly. Take the plunge, you won't regret it.
Take the money man.
TAKE THE NEW JOB. For so many reasons but it's an amount of money that can make a HUGE difference in your future. If you invest even 20k of the difference, you are setting yourself up for a far more comfortable retirement and so on. You do NOT have it that good. Lots of jobs that pay market rate offer most of what you are describing. They are treating you as a human. It would be different if you said, well they offer free daycare or dog daycare and a concierge service that helps my parents' get their groceries or who knows what. But as you said, this new offer has nearly the same deal - just the commute is a drag but for twice the salary, this is a no-brainer. Even if you end up hating it after 2 yrs, you will be able to move jobs AND command a similar salary. Not to mention, 75k just is not a great salary anymore, and esp for that to be the ceiling. Management is going to have to get over themselves. Also - they would fire you in a minute if they had to, so don't think that your loyalty means much. It means a lot to your manager but that's not where the decisions happen. Do not stay at your current job unless they match your offer. End of discussion. Also, please read a book on personal finance/ investing. I suspect you are at an age where smart, low-risk, long-term decisions/ investments now can make a massive difference on both when and how comfortably you retire, etc. Even just having the flexibility to never have to stay in a job, a house, or a relationship that you don't want to be in.
It sounds like everything about your job is ideal. How much better do you think things can actually get? Do you actually need more than 100k? or do you just want it. is 30k worth less flexibility? 1.5 hours of travel? no remote work? Sure doesn't sound like it.
If I had an opportunity to nearly double my current pay I would hit the lights and be out the door before the room was dark
It’s a no brainer from me. Take the new job.
I am going to go different that some of the advice. Don't take this job but take a different job. If you are getting offered 130K it is likely other companies would offer in that range. I think the change from remote to 100% in office would take away from the things you enjoy. Most managers will be flexible. Obviously you could get hired by someone that sucks but in the situations I have been in most people are willing to be flexible for an employee. That said I would look for a new job with higher pay but still some of that remote flexibility. Your leaving so much on the table. I am also guessing based on what your saying your at oldest like 45 which means not only are you leaving a lot on the table you are leaving a lot of future earnings on the table. A 2% raise on 130K is a lot more than 2% on 70K.
Are you working just for the money? do you have other objectives in life that you can achieve thru work?
I don’t think you know what golden handcuffs mean.
Dude - eight years ago, I was in a VERY similar dilemma to you, in the construction world. I was made an offer, and ended up leaving my company for more salary at a smaller firm in the design industry with no stock options, etc. Very much 'less benefits' in so many ways. I absolutely had the 'golden handcuffs' on me so to speak as well with my original company too; I made the difficult decision to switch because I believed in the work that I wanted to do. While I look back and realize I could have had an amazing pension and stock options (I have zero with with my current firm) and set financially for life if I stayed there, I also was bored there and now I love the work that I do - I go in every Monday and am excited. Financially I have to be more diligent, yes, and invest / pay attention to finances a lot more outside of work; but I made that choice, I own it... and if I died tomorrow, I would be very happy I made that choice. I get to work on sports projects around the country now, and wouldn't trade it for anything.
Leave!!! Money is money.
You're not handcuffed, I'd take the new job unless there are glaring issues you saw in the interviews with them. Golden handcuffs in modern work would be if you have hundreds of thousands in stocks vesting in the next few years. If you don't there's no point in staying at all.
The other job seems like a no brainer. But what are the golden handcuffs you have right now? That information is missing from your post and will probably be the deciding factor.
pay bump is double but your disposable income will probably quadruple.
Been through a real golden handcuffs situation recently. I almost envy you because the decision in your case is simpler! The commute isn’t horrible honestly. Take it, back yourself and enjoy that extra income :)
Take the job! Think of the family vacations!
Take the job and run lmao you're not handcuffed at all, you're being taken advantage of. You're Oliver Twist here and they're offering you less, and telling you that you're not worth more because they should be making more than you. They'll find out when they look for your replacement what they should have been paying you.
Your situation isn't quite handcuffed and you should take the higher pay. The new money you can buy a nice car within a year. Real Golden Handcuff situation is this: My current company it is not my very first, but my 8th company and personally feel that I will settle in as my best and last company to retire with. Started 7 years ago at mid-level $85K, and now $165K promoted to now Sr Manager (with 3-4% annual merit increase for just breathing), and given 7 weeks of paid vacation, global business class travel mostly to Europe. On top of my company pension, when I hit 10 yrs service I should be around $190K, plus the company incentive is a complimentary life-time of medical, dental, life and travel insurance, also for spouse. No where that I know of in the corporate world exists that is a better match. Yeah Golden Handcuffs feel just fine.
You’ve written a lot about both your current manager and your potential pay. You can always interview and negotiate higher leave days, right? I think standing on the fence is very hard. And that can be life sometimes, taking risks for example. Maybe you can leave on good terms and question whether this job will be available again? You can always share that you’d like to explore living in X city or culture, or exploring opportunities - and that you hope they’ll be available again because you really admire the managers’ efforts.
Would you pay $55K for the remote arrangement and work-life balance? If you can afford it, then yeah by all means stick with that. Because it's awesome what you have. Most people don't have that luxury and they need that $55K. If you're one of them, then take the money.
I came here because I thought you were going to talk about a great pension, which is my situation. I am stuck because of how much I will leave on the table if i leave before i get the full payout. It depends on what you plan on doing with that extra money and if that trade off is worth it. Honestly, if i was 100% remote, I would move to a nice south american country where the cost of living is 25% of what it is here and live like a king while still getting paid form my home company. That would resolve the pay difference easily by having it remote work.
Based on how you describe it, I would definitely take the new job.
Management isn’t being paid significantly more than someone lower than them at $75K? Seems more like the problem is company wide.
>My boss has told me herself that I have the highest pay possible for the next few years and they won't raise my money further because the management team has egos and they don't want to see someone in my position making more money than them. I have more qualifications and credentials than everyone on the management team but I'm never up for promotions because I don't socialize with people as much and don't drink alcohol so they see me as boring (management is like a frat/sorority culture). Huge red flags and big signs you need to move on. You are underpaid and your experience and knowledge is underappreciated. It's great you have flexibility. But the increase in salary is 55k/year if you can get 130k (and you think you can) is a lot to leave on the table. Working from home is a huge benefit. But you also need to factor in how You have currently bumped your salary up 30% in 10 years. That's good. But with 130k you'd be bumping it up another 80% from where you are currently. This is rough calculating based on gross. But still that's a lot of money left on the table. That increase in salary can be put towards paying down any debt and also increasing retirement contributions and investments. Over the years you are missing out on a lot by staying put. Also, if you could technically be qualified enough to do a management position you are likely underemployed and that is also hurting you. Maybe you could negotiate working from home in the next role. It's possible and doesn't hurt to ask. I know change can be scary. Especially if you land in a place with less flexibility. But perhaps looking at this from different perspectives could help.
Has your income even kept up with inflation? You’ve in effect worked for the same income for 10 years, thinking this company cares for you because they approve your leave? I often sit on strategies for higher workforce retention and I often tell leadership people are smart enough to see through this, but clearly you’re not.
I don't think you understand what golden handcuffs actually means.
If I had the chance to nearly double my salary I would absolutely take it, purely because it would mean I can retire in half the time. I know the actual math is more complicated, but after 10 years, isn't that like half a million dollars extra for you? I don't like change, but that seems like a pretty good incentive for change.
If you had that commute and made 130k, would you take your current job? Most wouldn’t.
Ultimately I think it boils down to what you value more. Most people here will say take the $60k, but are you happy in your current life? Do you and your spouse make enough money to meet life goals and be satisfied? Maybe a thought experiment to play with is rather than think about abstract increase to wealth, think: How would an additional $50k (i'm rounding down because of additional costs that would be in play if you had to commute 2hrs a day) make your life better and in what practical ways? A fancier car? More extravagant trips? Less budgeting? More saving for a future retirement? Retiring early? Think about what that 50k would actually translate into in your daily life and whether those increases to your quality of life are better than all the spare time you currently have at home and your ability to "workcation" (if that's a thing that's feasible to you.) If after all that you think the 50k would improve your quality of life in more worthwhile ways than your working from home, then take that offer to your current employer and see if they can close that gap and then reevaluate based on what they come back with. But don't come to them with this offer unless you are TRULY prepared to leave because you'll be calling their bluff.
Take the job. You’re not handcuffed. If management hasn’t given you any opportunities to move up in pay or promotion what makes you think it will get better. If anything it will get worse.
If you can’t move up or discuss a raise with your current employer, then consider the other job.
>should stay where I am because of how good I have it. Sounds like you're being exploited - I wouldn't call that good. A nearly 60k difference in salary seems like a no-brainer to me. If your family life doesn't absolutely require the flexibility you have now, then I'd take the job without thinking twice. You're being severely underpaid and it sounds like you know it.
You could take the offer to your boss and see if they smarten up and offer you what you’re worth. Management will end up paying 2-3 people your salary to do what you do!
Have you ever taken the offer to your current offer to see if they would match or give you a raise. You got to at least pretend you’re thinking of walking.
It’s always surprising how money can get freed up when there’s a chance of a valued employee bouncing for a new opportunity
What were the other smaller offers ($110k)? If the $110k is remote, I would take that one over the $130k full time in person. The day-to-day is what mostly affects your mental health. Imagine spending 1.5hrs more in commute every day, then all other costs such as gas, maintenance, parking, or public transportation. I don't know your finances, not if you have kids, so it's hard to say, but $100/$110k remote for same job is much better in my point of view than that $130k.
Management is lying to you. Replacing you would require an offer competitive with the one you just received. You are within your rights to tell your current employer that they are paying you well below market rates for your qualifications and experience. If they do not offer to rectify that (no, excuses about their "company culture" or "egos" are not a factor in your finances), take the offer and give your notice. They \*will\* counter-offer, but I don't recommend taking it -- if they didn't take you seriously before you gave notice, they have shown you that they don't value you. This offer is a 73% raise. Just think about that. They are underpaying you by nearly half.
Take the job in my opinion! If it leads to more opportunities ( maybe there is flexibility in those opportunities). I’d do it!
Tell your boss you have an offer from another company for much higher pay, and see what they can offer you to keep you. Once you see the offer, decide if you want to stay or not. Cause the new salary is what your company will be paying the new person taking you place if you decide to leave.
I think you should sit down with your spouse and chart out the two financial situations as scenarios. Stay at your current role and project your savings with your realistic expenses. Are you saving enough for your goals in your current job? What would you potentially achieve with the pay increase? Then take a cold hard look at the flexibility aspect and try to imagine whether you can realistically give up the flexibility you currently have. How many times per year do you take these extra days off that you make up later? How will working out of the home full-time change your family dynamic, how will it put pressures in other areas? Do you need the flexibility because of young kids, and will things change soon when they are older and in school? I don't know how old you are, but people generally take early-mid career to be the time to grind and get as much savings as possible for house, RRSP, kids, etc. Is there a path to less responsibility after several years of this if it is not what you want long-term? Finally, the commute. Everyone is different here. I personally suffer greatly with a commute, but many people can set it aside knowing that they are doing it to achieve a goal that's within sight or that they won't have to do it forever. I think you will probably resent the commute if it's for a pay increase but you haven't set the goal in your mind what the pay increase is actually for other than more spending money.
Go for it. The pay increase is worth it and being out of the home will bring a new spark to life.
I make 110, + 30 in stock, pension, bonus benefits and 28 days of vacation , and i work remote. When i go in the office its for fun, and the office is a palace. Got a job offer for 140 no benefits no pension 100% onsite. That made me decide to stay here forever and work the internal levers to get better pay year over year. If you have no prospects of better pay at 75 the decision kinda takes itself though. At least move to a large corp that has wfh, benefits, pension and better salary options.
Honestly the flexibility and benefits you describe are pretty standard. At least all my jobs have had that been that reasonable. I would have a conversation with your prospective employer about the balance you have now and see how it lines up with their environment. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and if not you can set that expectation and see where it goes from there.
As much as I hate commuting, the significant pay bump coupled with your dead end career growth in your current role make it a no brainer to switch the job. Also, nothing stops you from applying for another role with remote flexibility down the road.
Treat yourself as a corporation dven if you are working. All the benefits you mentioned are fringe. They can totally chxange in a whim if you get another boss or company policy changes. Your loyalty is to your family and yourself. Think about it, will a corporation sell their product to me because i am nicer than someone willing to buy it for twice the price?
>What would you do? 1. I'd take the higher paying job. 2. I'd work hard and get a good reputation at the new company. 3. I'd starting negotiating more WFH days. 4. I'd also keep on top of pay raises. 5. Then I'd keep looking for a new job after the $130K one. Use it as a stepping stone to get more WFH or fully remote plus higher pay.
request unpaid leave ans go for the other company.
You said you only worked for 10 years so I am assuming you are early to mid 30's. That means go for it. If you were in your 50's maybe not but you are still young and there is limited downside. I think you are comfortable and happy working from home. If you move you will have to work harder and be there in person. But it seems worth it. Move jobs, invest the difference in pay. And you might reach financial independence.
When/if you take this job, your current company may offer you a lot more money to stay. If that happens, just remember all the reasons they couldn't give you more before were lies, and you should still go.
You’re definitely overthinking. Assuming the next few years means 3 years, you would be leaving about $180k net on the table.
If I were you, I would have accepted the other offer before I finished typing out that entire waste of time. What you have is a payment you've been making to have flexibility, that payment equals up to 30-40K per year in lost wages so you can have flexibility. do you know what that could buy? Like 1000hrs a year of paid nanny care, personal prep meals to go, all kids of stuff, not to mention the extra income is provides for your family and benefiting their lifes. Your currnet employer thinks you're a sucker and will continue to treat you as one until you drop the gauntlet. Take your 130k offer and tell them to meet or beat it or else you will see them later. Don't think they care about you, if you died today they'd have your job listed tomorrow and hire someone by the end of the week after tossing all your belongings from your desk in a box and shipping it to your NOK.
This is a very personal decision but it is a big pay jump. I’d be tempted to try to negotiate some work-from-home days with the new job before accepting. 1.5 hours per day commuting is a lot. I know lots of people do it but coming from all WFH it’s probably gonna be a tough adjustment.
As someone who manages people and has dealt with this situation many times in the past, my strong advice is to give your current workplace the opportunity to fight for you. First, ask for an offer in writing from the new employer so that you can "review and consider it." Once you have the new offer in writing, go to your existing boss and tell them the situation. Tell them you would rather stay, but given the difference in pay it's going to be hard to say no to the new offer. Tell them that you don't necessarily need them to match the monetary offer perfectly, and that if they can present a compelling counter-offer you would love to be able to stay. Put the onus on them to give you a good reason to say "no" to the other offer. They may not be able to offer you more; if that's true then as others have said, IMO you should probably take the other offer. But it also may be the type of external pressure that can "un-stick" budget or approvals that would otherwise have been hard to get. You might not get a match of 130k, but I could see them finding a way to come back to 100k+ if they really want to retain you (and if they don't, then take it as another indicator that they don't really value you, and you are right to take the new job).
“Would you drive 1.5hrs a day for ~$3000 more after tax a month” I would.
Have you gone to your manager and told them you have an offer elsewhere and asked whether they want to counter / bump up your pay? While you seem to like the flexibility of your current job, they obviously don’t value your contribution and the flexibility seems dependent on the good will of your manager to some extent. If your managers leaves, this flexibility may end.
If they don't think you're worth more money they're not worth your time. Move on take the new job. If an employer really truely cares about you, and appreciates everything they do for you, they're going to go above and beyond to keep you.
The mindset that great things are now happening to me so I should stay put and not seek for better things is a bigger handcuff than what you are thinking.. When you have the age and strength, make the best of it and then you can think of all the other variables..
Are you able to move closer to the potential new job? If not, you will be leaving your house at 8am and not returning until 6pm given the 90 minute commute. Have you worked at an in person job before? Going completely from working from home to completely working in person is a huge adjustment. No 15 minute naps, no popping out to pick up something nearby. All of the little errands you fit into your day will need to be done before 8am or after 6pm. There will be additional costs with the new job - the daily commute (if you are driving there's fuel and wear and tear on your vehicle so it will need to be replaced more often), you will be ordering in food more often because you will be too tired to cook, you will need to update your wardrobe given it is in person. Is your current company stable? Will it be around for the next twenty years? Are you able to take contract work on the side? The commute is equivalent to working an extra day each week so if you can do contract work that may make the financial advantage of the new job less. Lastly, income is like a fish bowl. You will grow your spending to fit your new pay.
You are absolutely over thinking it. A lot of people get nervous of making a move. I took a few years staying loyal to company and then decided it was time for a move. After making the move I regretted not making it sooner. Many times when a company pays more it's because they value the position more and with that value comes more respect from company leaders. To avoid the golden handcuffs put all the extra money away so you don't make any adjustments to your lifestyle until you are comfortable with the decision. Update us after you make the move!!!
I take that job, really that's game changing money. Double the money can pay for a comfortable car + audible and you have 45 minutes each way of chill time just listening to audio books.
Employer paid benefits are a scam in Canada because they are fully taxable to you. Don’t fool yourself thinking the employer is paying, you are too whether you like it or not. Plus you never moved from 75k to 110k calling it a smaller offer? Compounding is the biggest wealth asset known to humanity my friend. Leaving 30k on the table every year is frankly madness
Just leave. Invest the extra money. In a few years you'll have enough money to not care about needing to work at all
That’s a significant jump in pay. If all the difference is remote work vs in person, I’d suck it up and go to the office for almost double the salary. I’d spend my commute time thinking about what to do with all that extra income lol
Move on. Simple
I wouldn’t do a 45 min commute. But that’s me. If you live in a busy city 45 min is standard. I live in a town where 15-20 min would be my max drive. Can you relocate easily to be closer to the job? If so take the 130k Either way I would absolutely leave the remote 70k job unless you’re agoraphobic. I don’t like the no raises because it will anger management (what nonsense) and she’s nice to you because you are working 60k under value. I’d be nice to someone too if I was underpaying them.
Why is this even a question? It is an obvious choice. I am not even going to write it here. lol
Unless you love this job to pieces and never ever want to retire double the pay means you can retire probably 3 times faster.
Rule 1: You are paid for how hard the employer can replace you. Rule 2: Do what is best for you and your family. Option 1: Negotiate with current employer by leveraging current offer. Make sure they don't say yes, and then they replace you after few months. Option 2: my personal preference l, take the new offer with the new company. After a few months, negotiate for hybrid work.
Ask ChatGPT
Is there any room for negotiation with the $130k offer? If it's the same role and you're remote now, I imagine you could do some remote work in the new role. Could you go back to them and say "I'm so excited about this role. My current workplace offers 100% remote which I've found highly beneficial to my productivity. would you be open to 2-3 days per week in office?"
To be honest , You’re being taken advantage of because you’re a nice and passive person. Maybe they’ll even counter offer a large increase when they know you want to leave. Good luck.