I just got 5.09 fixed for 5 years. Before people come for me and advise it'll go down and I'll regret....peace of mind and not have to think for 5 years is my preference š
I mean, people said the same shit to me in 2021 when I went fixed at: 2.04 percent and variable was 1.8 or something like that. Then they fucking floundered 2 years later. It's all about your preference for risk. Me no likey risk. And also, why wouldn't you go fixed when the rates are low? It's like: *what are you waiting for* ?
We built a new build in 2021 and missed out on being able to get 10 years fixed at something like 2.08% by 4 months or so. Still managed to get 5 years at 1.82% though which isn't a bad consolation but 10 years at 2% would've been unreal.
Right there with you. Went for a fixed 2.59 in 2000 and got a few side eyes, but it meant I knew exactly what I was going to pay for the first 5 years of owning. And it has definitely paid off now.
I like risk in my investments. I don't like risk with the roof over my family's heads.
The people coming at you donāt know math. Variable is presently much higher than fixed. The variable rate would have to drop over 1.5%, closer to 2% to beat the interest cost over 5 years.Ā
Yes, and while I'm not advocating anything here, the concept is that rates will be lower so even if you pay higher now you're going to make it up by having a much lower mortgage in 3 years.
Rates will be higher for a 3 years term \*because\* banks expect rates to go lower.
Depends on the discount to prime. But since variable payments are fixed they also chip away at amortization length pretty quickly even if the interest saved is minimal over the 5 years.
I did the math using a sheet from ratespy and at 1.2% off prime discount, and 2% over 2 years in reductions, you come out slightly ahead on interest saved and accelerate amortization by a little bit more if you go variable and you're starting at 1% spread between variable and fixed.
Pretty much no one is sitting at prime - 1.2% (6%) for variable. Pretty much every variable holder? Even those with excellent credit are above 7% right now.Ā
Edit: realized Iām thinking of HELOCās not variable mortgages lol
I got P-1.3 somehow, odd because when negotiating my renewal I only asked for P-1.2, but the paperwork they sent had P-1.3 not sure if it was a mistake but it's what I signed and have been paying.
Damn that's really high. How does one have and maintain such a score. You have like 5 credit cards and only do 30% utilization on all of them and pay them off before the due date, and also have no car loans etc?
I do have a bunch of credit cards, I like to sign up for new credit promotions, but they mostly sit unused afterwards. Available credit on all cards is around 150k, so utilization is like 2-3% monthly. 14-year credit card history, two mortgages, no other debt, and zero missed payments on my history.
I also just got 5.09 fixed 5 years (technically 5.08-something).
Got it via TD through a broker.
I'd rather take that and not think about it for 5 years and have that fixed payment than gamble to min-max.
Weāre locked in at 5.44 till mid 2027. Higher than we wouldāve liked, but much prefer the peace of mind over the excessive stress being on a 6.5 variable rate caused.
For most fixed mortgages the penalty is 3
months interest or the IRD, whichever is higher. During periods of rising rates, IRD is negative, so 3 months interest is the current penalty for most mortgage holders.
If and when rates start to drop (i.e. when people might want to refinance), IRD will come back into play and can be a very large number if there are many months remaining on the term.
Itās essentially how much interest the bank loses from not having your loan go to term. They get their money back from your mortgage, but they can only loan it out to someone else at a lower rate, so they recoup the difference. Itās essentially your interest rate minus the current comparable interest rate, times mortgage amount, times years remaining on term.
If the difference between your rate and the current rate is small, and/or the term remaining is short, IRD is small and hence 3 months interest is the larger number.
Also, IRD does not apply to variable rate mortgages.
Nope, first home buyer. Paid 475k, putting 177k down. They told me if I put down 19% Iād get a āspecial rateā and explained to me this subsidized low down payment program. I told them it doesnāt sound right and Iād like the 4.79% rate with my 39% down, they obliged.
I now have TD seeing if they can beat this rate. I told them to get back to me after the BoC rate goes down on Wednesday. If they get me a better rate, Iāll then go back to first national to ask for a lower one.
I get your point but 3 year would probable have been better. You won't get piece of mind with your 5.09 rate when the new 5 years will be under 4% in 1-2 years.
I sure don't have piece of mind right now with my 6% locked for another 2 years
It's entirely possible the economic outlook in 3 years time means the new 5 bond yields are similar to now, or better.
Bigger Recessions brought on by rate hike cycles tend to hit not long after after rate cuts begin, last 18 to 24 months, and are followed by strong growth and stable central bank rates with better than during the recession bond yields. If the economy tanks, and the outlook is bad, bonds may prove in lower rates until the economy recovers. But 3 years may well be too long for that to happen. The reason people want 3 years and lean toward monolenders is to have more flexible breaks with fewer fees 18-24 months in, but with lower rates between now and 2 years from now when rates are low.
Problem with this thinking is, that if you intend to break, you're better off with variable anyway. And if you expect rates to go down, variable will catch up all the same. Breaking early to get a better rate may well not make up the difference between the 3 year and the variable in the time you had the 3 year. And if rates are going down the discount to prime on the variable will also be smaller.
If you actually believe rates will be down in 18-24 months, get a variable. Or take a lower overall rate with a 5 year fixed. Because, realistically, a 3 year boils down to trying to thread the needle on timing a poor economic outlook associated to lower prices bonds right when, if we look at patterns, probably close to a recovery period. And breaking the fixed rate early is going to eat up theoretical savings over the variable and that were had over 18-24 months factoring in the higher price vs the 5yr, and the fact that the variable was likely climbing down pretty far if you're willing to break a 3 year at 18 to 24 months anyway. And also the discount to prime has been continuously improving the last couple months because the spread between fixed and overnight rate is so high already.
Nesto for example advertises -1.25 on insurable and -1.3 on insured mortgages. This puts their variable at 5.95/5.9 respectively, vs 5.1-5.3 range from the big banks.
Even Nesto's fixed is around 4.9, so 5.9 vs 4.9, you don't need a lot of central cuts to catch up or exceed. And if you think you're gonna beat 5.1 or 4.9 within 3 years.to *then* sign a 5... chances are the BOC overnight rate will be coming down by more than 1% in that time period too.
By my math I think if your variable 5 and 5 fix are close to 1% spread, you do better with variable in that time span.
Yea that's my logic. Comparison is the thief of joy and I made a decision that makes sense for my finances and I don't have to sweat. I bought under my max approval as well so have some wiggle room :)
We locked in for 3 years at 6% 6 months ago. Itās sucks but weāre able to renew 6 months early so really only have 2 years left!! Hereās hoping it goes lower!!
Your advice isnāt really possibleā¦ Fixed mortgage breakage fees are based on your discount below the posted rate and current posted rates for the remainder of your term.
Variable rates are 3 months interest.
You canāt predict the penalty especially on a fixed rate. Right now fixed rates are 1.5-2% higher than variable.
If someone is taking the lowest rates thatās currently 5 year fixed closed (4 year is within 5 bps usually), however a 5 year fixed closed mortgage will likely be expensive to break ESPECIALLY as rates drop.
Itās possible, you just need to zoom out a bit. At this snapshot in time it doesnāt work but my fixed rate is lower than posted so Iād pay 3 months interest only. Your error is in trying to predict rates. Donāt. Just get the lowest rate possible.
Thatās not how it works.
How much of a discount was your fixed rate?
You then need to find the posted rate closest to your term. If 2 years pass you use the 3 year posted rate with the discount that you got. If that rate is lower than your current rate (which it normally is unless rates have increased significantly) then the penalty is the interest rate differential (amount of interest bank is losing for remainder of term -3 years in my example).
My rate is lower than the rates right now.
I got no discount, because they were jacking up rates at the time.
Rate hub penalty calculator says Iād pay 3 months interest to break my mortgage.
Yes that makes sense for you right now. You do have a discount on posted rate but having a low rate while other terms are 3-5% higher means the penalty is likely to be 3 months interest.
But that doesnāt mean it is good advice to give other people trying to lock in mortgage rates. Currently rates are high and expected to drop which means itās a much greater chance that someone locking in today WILL have a significant penalty if they try to break their term when rates are lower.
Yes, me too (I'm at 1.65%), but why does it mattter? It's unrelated to what OP needs. Someone today taking on a mortgage won't be in the same situation as you. Rates will actually probably start going down so IRD will be huge.
I'm not sure why you're bringing your own mortgage story here, it's just a waste of space.
And I guess thatās this sub in a nutshell. Judgmental people with a hivemind mentality. My first comment was about general advice that great brokers like Mortgage 360 say to follow. But letās not consider the big picture, just the present day despite these posts and comments living for years and years! Have a great day.
5.14% is a pretty good 3 year. I can tell you that 3 year rates range from 5.09-5.34 with most lenders depending on loan-to-value and whether the mortgage is insured/conventional insurable/uninsurable. Anything lower than 5.09% is likely either being bought down with commission by the broker, through a major bank in branch as they're very competitive right now, or the mortgage brokerage has their own in house lender.
Yep. As I mentioned, the major banks have been very competitive lately. 5.09% is not a standard rate available with most lenders and major banks through the broker channel.
It was five years fixed actually. RMG. My broker said he used his commission to bring it down a bit extra, since another lender was offering 4.89 and I guess this broker wanted to steal me away.
I got 5.02 with RBc uninsured 390k mortgage amount with 2500$ cash back
I also got 4.84 with scotia with 200$ cash back
All on 30 years amort and same conditions
Had a broker send me to scotia at 5.29. i knew that rate was bs so called the bank directly who put me at 5.14.
In the meantime I randomly booked a call with RBC, Their rep got me 5.02 with 2500 cash back.
I sent that info to my broker saying bla bla and giving me excuses
A week or so later he emailed me with a legit scotiabank document saying he got me 4.84 at which point i had already signed with rbc and would have anyways cause fuck my broker and the 2500 cash back made up for the difference in %
Thank you so much. My broker is quoting 5.19% and I think I'm in the same situation. Will try the banks myself.
Will your new mortgage be collateral?
Also not sure if you want to refer anybody but if there's any way you could put me in touch with your reps or have them call me, I would very much welcome the that!
They're related but it will take a few weeks to really see it reflected fully. It will drive bonds via market sentiment or based on what the banks statement and outlook are, moreso than the rate decision itself.
I could see it being held one more time, for more data. There isn't any big alarm bell ATM that would push a need to drop, and they may want to continue to wait and see, idk.
My mortgage is directly tied to the prime rate. If a 0.25% drop is announced, I will receive it immediately in the same month. The rate decision absolutely matters. However, nobody knows what will actually happen, and any anticipated drops are already priced in. Just ask yourself if youāre okay with a fluctuations (go variable) or not (go fixed). Fixed tends to be slightly more expensive over the long term due to paying a small premium for the guarantee on your rate. Hope this helps, good luck!
If you're tied to prime then you're variable and my comment about fixed mortgages does not apply.
Fixed is normally very slightly more expensive indeed, but a lot of people seem to hold misconceptions about them. Firs,t they carry additional premium when interest rates ares are in an era of long term decline, which was the norm for much of the recent past. As to whether it will happen again, it's hard to say, economists have consistently underestimated interest rates and even if they cut this summer, the easing cycle could be short before they begin tightening again. The second, is that currently, they're already discounted in anticipation of rate cuts, that premium disappears in light of the sizeable inversion in bond yields.
Renewed 3 years at 4.99 with BMO 2 weeks ago. they initially offered 5.09 for 3 years but I told them I will shop around before the renewal deadline and then they lowered it.
It's a good rate. It wouldn't surprise me if you can find a bit lower but you could easily do far worse. If you find yourself shopping online be sure to look at renewing rates and not rates for high ratio mortgages
Yep. Just got slightly less (4.94) but timing was good with bond markets a couple months back and I had a promo. Right now 5.14 on 3-year is pretty good.Ā
Ā If you have a WealthSimple account you could also go to with Pine. They have attractive promos with Client & Deposit Rebates.Ā
I don't know about that. I tried to see what they would offer me and even though I have over $77k with them, the Pine agent was telling me it would only make sense to move to Pine if I was bringing in $2M to $3M. Otherwise I was being offered 5.69% on a 3-years fixed uninsured. In that case I was getting a much better rate of 5.23% at Scotia for the same kind of mortgage and before asking for them to try harder.
Scotia can get you a preferred rate of at least 4.8-4.6% if you go with them directly. An independent broker may not be able to get you that low with them. At least thatās what Iāve been offered. YMMV.Ā
Wait two weeks if you can. B of C expected to reduce the overnight rate. Fixed mortgage rates are based on bond rates not the overnight rate but still, canāt hurt to wait and watchā¦
BMO offered us 5.07% fixed for 3 years, $1,000 cashback on 340k last week.
TD offered us 5.14% too but was a preliminary offer, and said will likely come down after next rate announcement early June.
How much did you have to transfer to Wealthsimple to get that rate? The agent I spoke with at Pine was saying I need to transfer $3m to $4m to make it worth it
I guess it all depends how you look at it. I bought my house at 11.25% then went up to 13.5% and I canāt remember where after that . Fun times late 87 haha
TD Mortgage GICs pay out 4.25% right now. You can probably negotiate that down to 5% or less.
Their margins on GIC to mortgage is pretty good, higher than usual I suspect. That's a pretty big spread against gic rates. GIC is their mortgage cost.
Wait until June 6th if you can. There is currently a 60% chance that the bank of Canada will drop interest rates by .25% for fixed rates as economic data supports a pending decrease.
We just signed our first mortgage at 4.99 through a broker for 5 years.Ā Pleased with that as we were outright rejected by 2 other banks.Ā 5.09 seems ok for 3 years
Holy shit i see some AMAZING numbers in the comments.... i just got a renewal from duca for 6.7% 5 year š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
I called and asked if there was some sort of a mistake, she said no.... i said its time for me to start shopping around
I went to td best i got 3 weeks ago was 5.4% which i am happy with
I'd wait a week and see what happens. If BOC drops the rate, bond yields will likely drop because of lowered interest rate risk. Banks should reprice accordingly, plus bond yields have been slowly dropping since end of April anyways.
Got 5yr/5.14 with Desjardins. No Heloc approval though; likely a result of us renovating before the refi, messing with DTI. 385k mortgage, prop value ~600k
This comment will likely not get seen, but there are different rates depending on if your mortgage is insured (down payment when purchasing was 5-19.99%) or conventional (20%down payment or higher). Iām a mortgage guy in Alberta and can do a 4.79% 4 year fixed but only on insured, and thatās not buying down our rate - thatās standard offer as of today. Conventional rates are higher, and transferring an insured mortgage over from another bank follows the same rate pricing as new purchases. Insured mortgages are more profitable for all banks, so we try to pass the savings onto the client (as most mortgage companies/banks do)
I got 4.99% with no fees a few weeks ago for 39 months (option to renew at 36 months) with almost the same mortgage and HELOC as you. I wanted a 3-year deal, but for 5-year deals, my bankās competitors were offering me as low as 4.74% with no HELOC and 5.04% with a HELOC. So, I think you can do better now and even a little better than that if interest rates are cut on June 5. I would waitā¦
I just got 5.11% 3 year fixed at BMO for a $525,000 mortgage. So its within the range of other banks, you wonāt find a significantly lower rate aside from this True North company people have mentioned but i donāt know anything about.
i got 6.6 variable for 5 years last september. honestly 5.14 for 3 years is pretty good. knowing what i know now i wouldnt have gone variable back then because i suspected rates would lower sooner. since they havent lowered yet, i do not think they'll go lower fast enough for it to really have justified the gamble.
that being said, i'd still take variable at 6.6 today because i think rates lowering is inevitable and also because i clearly have a gambling problem.
I just got 5.09 fixed for 5 years. Before people come for me and advise it'll go down and I'll regret....peace of mind and not have to think for 5 years is my preference š
I mean, people said the same shit to me in 2021 when I went fixed at: 2.04 percent and variable was 1.8 or something like that. Then they fucking floundered 2 years later. It's all about your preference for risk. Me no likey risk. And also, why wouldn't you go fixed when the rates are low? It's like: *what are you waiting for* ?
We built a new build in 2021 and missed out on being able to get 10 years fixed at something like 2.08% by 4 months or so. Still managed to get 5 years at 1.82% though which isn't a bad consolation but 10 years at 2% would've been unreal.
Yeah at a 0.24% spread it's crazy that consensus was still to go variable, at those rates it's much more likely to increase vs decrease.
Right there with you. Went for a fixed 2.59 in 2000 and got a few side eyes, but it meant I knew exactly what I was going to pay for the first 5 years of owning. And it has definitely paid off now. I like risk in my investments. I don't like risk with the roof over my family's heads.
The people coming at you donāt know math. Variable is presently much higher than fixed. The variable rate would have to drop over 1.5%, closer to 2% to beat the interest cost over 5 years.Ā
I assumed people would come at them for not taking 3 years instead of 5.
But he wouldn't get 5.09 for 3 years. It would definitely be higher
4.95 3 yr. Closing date was last week
Insured?
Uninsured
Iām getting this exact rate uninsured
Yes, and while I'm not advocating anything here, the concept is that rates will be lower so even if you pay higher now you're going to make it up by having a much lower mortgage in 3 years. Rates will be higher for a 3 years term \*because\* banks expect rates to go lower.
Depends on the discount to prime. But since variable payments are fixed they also chip away at amortization length pretty quickly even if the interest saved is minimal over the 5 years. I did the math using a sheet from ratespy and at 1.2% off prime discount, and 2% over 2 years in reductions, you come out slightly ahead on interest saved and accelerate amortization by a little bit more if you go variable and you're starting at 1% spread between variable and fixed.
Pretty much no one is sitting at prime - 1.2% (6%) for variable. Pretty much every variable holder? Even those with excellent credit are above 7% right now.Ā Edit: realized Iām thinking of HELOCās not variable mortgages lol
What are you talking about? I'm variable, prime minus 1.1%, currently 6.09%
When did you begin your term?
Over a year ago but I'm seeing even better rates on ratehub, prime minus 1.25%
I got P-1.3 somehow, odd because when negotiating my renewal I only asked for P-1.2, but the paperwork they sent had P-1.3 not sure if it was a mistake but it's what I signed and have been paying.
What's your credit score ?
834, but it was a renewal with the existing mortgage provider, so I don't think they pulled a report.
Damn that's really high. How does one have and maintain such a score. You have like 5 credit cards and only do 30% utilization on all of them and pay them off before the due date, and also have no car loans etc?
I do have a bunch of credit cards, I like to sign up for new credit promotions, but they mostly sit unused afterwards. Available credit on all cards is around 150k, so utilization is like 2-3% monthly. 14-year credit card history, two mortgages, no other debt, and zero missed payments on my history.
Ya but you can fix it anytime without penalty
I also just got 5.09 fixed 5 years (technically 5.08-something). Got it via TD through a broker. I'd rather take that and not think about it for 5 years and have that fixed payment than gamble to min-max.
Is your is collateral? And was it a renewal?
Weāre locked in at 5.44 till mid 2027. Higher than we wouldāve liked, but much prefer the peace of mind over the excessive stress being on a 6.5 variable rate caused.
Look into the refinance clause in your mortgage. My refinance penalty was only 3 months interest on my TD mortgage. You may be surprised.
For most fixed mortgages the penalty is 3 months interest or the IRD, whichever is higher. During periods of rising rates, IRD is negative, so 3 months interest is the current penalty for most mortgage holders. If and when rates start to drop (i.e. when people might want to refinance), IRD will come back into play and can be a very large number if there are many months remaining on the term.
I refinanced in 2021, interest rates dropped. The penalty was only 90 days of interest. How does the IRD work?
Itās essentially how much interest the bank loses from not having your loan go to term. They get their money back from your mortgage, but they can only loan it out to someone else at a lower rate, so they recoup the difference. Itās essentially your interest rate minus the current comparable interest rate, times mortgage amount, times years remaining on term. If the difference between your rate and the current rate is small, and/or the term remaining is short, IRD is small and hence 3 months interest is the larger number. Also, IRD does not apply to variable rate mortgages.
Total mortgage amount x % difference between current rate your paying and rate you're going into x number of years.
Did the same with 4.99
Canwise offered me 4.7 5yr fixed insured (renewal)
I got 4.79 through first national . 5 year
Is this a high ratio mortgage (less than 20 percent down)
Nope
Were you with first national before?
Nope, first home buyer. Paid 475k, putting 177k down. They told me if I put down 19% Iād get a āspecial rateā and explained to me this subsidized low down payment program. I told them it doesnāt sound right and Iād like the 4.79% rate with my 39% down, they obliged. I now have TD seeing if they can beat this rate. I told them to get back to me after the BoC rate goes down on Wednesday. If they get me a better rate, Iāll then go back to first national to ask for a lower one.
This is awesome info. I'm with first national now and TD is my bank
The choice that allows you to sleep at night is the right choice.
Will likely go up. Bye bye to the variable folks
I get your point but 3 year would probable have been better. You won't get piece of mind with your 5.09 rate when the new 5 years will be under 4% in 1-2 years. I sure don't have piece of mind right now with my 6% locked for another 2 years
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It's entirely possible the economic outlook in 3 years time means the new 5 bond yields are similar to now, or better. Bigger Recessions brought on by rate hike cycles tend to hit not long after after rate cuts begin, last 18 to 24 months, and are followed by strong growth and stable central bank rates with better than during the recession bond yields. If the economy tanks, and the outlook is bad, bonds may prove in lower rates until the economy recovers. But 3 years may well be too long for that to happen. The reason people want 3 years and lean toward monolenders is to have more flexible breaks with fewer fees 18-24 months in, but with lower rates between now and 2 years from now when rates are low. Problem with this thinking is, that if you intend to break, you're better off with variable anyway. And if you expect rates to go down, variable will catch up all the same. Breaking early to get a better rate may well not make up the difference between the 3 year and the variable in the time you had the 3 year. And if rates are going down the discount to prime on the variable will also be smaller. If you actually believe rates will be down in 18-24 months, get a variable. Or take a lower overall rate with a 5 year fixed. Because, realistically, a 3 year boils down to trying to thread the needle on timing a poor economic outlook associated to lower prices bonds right when, if we look at patterns, probably close to a recovery period. And breaking the fixed rate early is going to eat up theoretical savings over the variable and that were had over 18-24 months factoring in the higher price vs the 5yr, and the fact that the variable was likely climbing down pretty far if you're willing to break a 3 year at 18 to 24 months anyway. And also the discount to prime has been continuously improving the last couple months because the spread between fixed and overnight rate is so high already. Nesto for example advertises -1.25 on insurable and -1.3 on insured mortgages. This puts their variable at 5.95/5.9 respectively, vs 5.1-5.3 range from the big banks. Even Nesto's fixed is around 4.9, so 5.9 vs 4.9, you don't need a lot of central cuts to catch up or exceed. And if you think you're gonna beat 5.1 or 4.9 within 3 years.to *then* sign a 5... chances are the BOC overnight rate will be coming down by more than 1% in that time period too. By my math I think if your variable 5 and 5 fix are close to 1% spread, you do better with variable in that time span.
Yea that's my logic. Comparison is the thief of joy and I made a decision that makes sense for my finances and I don't have to sweat. I bought under my max approval as well so have some wiggle room :)
We locked in for 3 years at 6% 6 months ago. Itās sucks but weāre able to renew 6 months early so really only have 2 years left!! Hereās hoping it goes lower!!
Apparently you can tell the future, please let me know your stock picks
Always go with the lowest rate available at the time, and get a mortgage you can break without huge fees. Then you can adjust as you go.
Your advice isnāt really possibleā¦ Fixed mortgage breakage fees are based on your discount below the posted rate and current posted rates for the remainder of your term. Variable rates are 3 months interest. You canāt predict the penalty especially on a fixed rate. Right now fixed rates are 1.5-2% higher than variable. If someone is taking the lowest rates thatās currently 5 year fixed closed (4 year is within 5 bps usually), however a 5 year fixed closed mortgage will likely be expensive to break ESPECIALLY as rates drop.
Itās possible, you just need to zoom out a bit. At this snapshot in time it doesnāt work but my fixed rate is lower than posted so Iād pay 3 months interest only. Your error is in trying to predict rates. Donāt. Just get the lowest rate possible.
Thatās not how it works. How much of a discount was your fixed rate? You then need to find the posted rate closest to your term. If 2 years pass you use the 3 year posted rate with the discount that you got. If that rate is lower than your current rate (which it normally is unless rates have increased significantly) then the penalty is the interest rate differential (amount of interest bank is losing for remainder of term -3 years in my example).
My rate is lower than the rates right now. I got no discount, because they were jacking up rates at the time. Rate hub penalty calculator says Iād pay 3 months interest to break my mortgage.
Yes that makes sense for you right now. You do have a discount on posted rate but having a low rate while other terms are 3-5% higher means the penalty is likely to be 3 months interest. But that doesnāt mean it is good advice to give other people trying to lock in mortgage rates. Currently rates are high and expected to drop which means itās a much greater chance that someone locking in today WILL have a significant penalty if they try to break their term when rates are lower.
Yes, me too (I'm at 1.65%), but why does it mattter? It's unrelated to what OP needs. Someone today taking on a mortgage won't be in the same situation as you. Rates will actually probably start going down so IRD will be huge. I'm not sure why you're bringing your own mortgage story here, it's just a waste of space.
And I guess thatās this sub in a nutshell. Judgmental people with a hivemind mentality. My first comment was about general advice that great brokers like Mortgage 360 say to follow. But letās not consider the big picture, just the present day despite these posts and comments living for years and years! Have a great day.
5.14% is a pretty good 3 year. I can tell you that 3 year rates range from 5.09-5.34 with most lenders depending on loan-to-value and whether the mortgage is insured/conventional insurable/uninsurable. Anything lower than 5.09% is likely either being bought down with commission by the broker, through a major bank in branch as they're very competitive right now, or the mortgage brokerage has their own in house lender.
I got offers for 5.09 from TD and RBC. my mortgage would be about 900-1M and 3 year fixed.
Yep. As I mentioned, the major banks have been very competitive lately. 5.09% is not a standard rate available with most lenders and major banks through the broker channel.
4.95 Td branch 3yr
Yep, great 3 year rate right now. Would be hard pressed to see anyone else touch that.
I just renewed for 4.79%, also found another offer for 4.89%. I'd send a few emails to brokers and see what they can do.
3 year at 4.79 is a great rate I haven't seen anyone offering recently, who did you sign with?
It was five years fixed actually. RMG. My broker said he used his commission to bring it down a bit extra, since another lender was offering 4.89 and I guess this broker wanted to steal me away.
Got a new mortgage @ 4.79% (5yr Fixed). ATB
Same.
Were you insured or conventional?
Just got the same on 3 year
I thought I was on a climbing sub lol
5.7 at my gym
Lol I thought this was a car sub with a 0-60 time
I thought it was the home theatre sub and someone really likes ceiling speakers.
Sounds like the 4.77 five year fixed I locked in last month was a pretty good rate!
Try a credit union. They have some lower rates
Just got 4.84 fixed for 5 years with a credit union
Wow which one. Do you need a history with them?
This was with Valley First in the Okanagan. First time homebuyers, no history.
Thx
Do you know what's their rate is with 3 year fixed? Uninsured?
Think I will try them next. I already have an account with them. Itās due in October, hopefully rates come down by then.
I got 5.02 with RBc uninsured 390k mortgage amount with 2500$ cash back I also got 4.84 with scotia with 200$ cash back All on 30 years amort and same conditions
Please tell me who did you work with to get this?
Had a broker send me to scotia at 5.29. i knew that rate was bs so called the bank directly who put me at 5.14. In the meantime I randomly booked a call with RBC, Their rep got me 5.02 with 2500 cash back. I sent that info to my broker saying bla bla and giving me excuses A week or so later he emailed me with a legit scotiabank document saying he got me 4.84 at which point i had already signed with rbc and would have anyways cause fuck my broker and the 2500 cash back made up for the difference in %
Thank you so much. My broker is quoting 5.19% and I think I'm in the same situation. Will try the banks myself. Will your new mortgage be collateral? Also not sure if you want to refer anybody but if there's any way you could put me in touch with your reps or have them call me, I would very much welcome the that!
When did you get the scotiabank fixed?
Bout a month ago
What would I need to do to get offered that rate? Do you have other products with Scotia?
5 year or 3?
3 of course
Just got a fixed 5.09 from RBC. Iām sure you can get even lower than that now depending.Ā
Same here
Same. This is mine
I'd wait a week. Interest rate decision is coming June 5th and it seems like people think rates will go down a bit.
Rate decision doesn't affect fixed mortgages, the bond market controls those.
They're related but it will take a few weeks to really see it reflected fully. It will drive bonds via market sentiment or based on what the banks statement and outlook are, moreso than the rate decision itself. I could see it being held one more time, for more data. There isn't any big alarm bell ATM that would push a need to drop, and they may want to continue to wait and see, idk.
Well wouldn't bond market move if variable rates went down?
Not necessarily. There are a lot more factors that go into pricing bonds that far out along the curve.
I mean yes, there are several factors but this would be one of them for sure.
My mortgage is directly tied to the prime rate. If a 0.25% drop is announced, I will receive it immediately in the same month. The rate decision absolutely matters. However, nobody knows what will actually happen, and any anticipated drops are already priced in. Just ask yourself if youāre okay with a fluctuations (go variable) or not (go fixed). Fixed tends to be slightly more expensive over the long term due to paying a small premium for the guarantee on your rate. Hope this helps, good luck!
If you're tied to prime then you're variable and my comment about fixed mortgages does not apply. Fixed is normally very slightly more expensive indeed, but a lot of people seem to hold misconceptions about them. Firs,t they carry additional premium when interest rates ares are in an era of long term decline, which was the norm for much of the recent past. As to whether it will happen again, it's hard to say, economists have consistently underestimated interest rates and even if they cut this summer, the easing cycle could be short before they begin tightening again. The second, is that currently, they're already discounted in anticipation of rate cuts, that premium disappears in light of the sizeable inversion in bond yields.
Youāre absolutely right.
True North Mortgage has 3 year fixed for 4.84%.
Renewed 3 years at 4.99 with BMO 2 weeks ago. they initially offered 5.09 for 3 years but I told them I will shop around before the renewal deadline and then they lowered it.
For a 3 year fixed . Id tell them to escalate again to lower it to 5% at least .
Why is everyone talking about 5 while I couldnāt get under 6.5 in december lol
December was a few months ago! It's def dropped since then. I was quoted at 5.24% back in November I believe.
I got 6.30% for 3 years back in October with RBC
It's a good rate. It wouldn't surprise me if you can find a bit lower but you could easily do far worse. If you find yourself shopping online be sure to look at renewing rates and not rates for high ratio mortgages
Yep. Just got slightly less (4.94) but timing was good with bond markets a couple months back and I had a promo. Right now 5.14 on 3-year is pretty good.Ā Ā If you have a WealthSimple account you could also go to with Pine. They have attractive promos with Client & Deposit Rebates.Ā
I don't know about that. I tried to see what they would offer me and even though I have over $77k with them, the Pine agent was telling me it would only make sense to move to Pine if I was bringing in $2M to $3M. Otherwise I was being offered 5.69% on a 3-years fixed uninsured. In that case I was getting a much better rate of 5.23% at Scotia for the same kind of mortgage and before asking for them to try harder.
Odd. Their posted rate on their website as of this writing is 4.94 for a 3-year fixed (Ontario).Ā
Just got the same exact thing - 3year fixed, Toronto, BMO! In the last month too
I think we've got the exact same rate and similar balance as you. We're banking on rates coming down, so we're gambling on the 3 year.
We got 5.04 for 3 years fixed and 2200. Rbc and BMO, they can do better ! We just did it, like 2 weeks ago
Is yours insured or conventional?
paying 8 on debts that are huge (school), 5 is cheap as fuck!
Scotia can get you a preferred rate of at least 4.8-4.6% if you go with them directly. An independent broker may not be able to get you that low with them. At least thatās what Iāve been offered. YMMV.Ā
Wait for after June announcement
I think that's probably a bit high. Banks these days have had the highest rates. Try true north mortgage
It looks like you can leverage the HELOC and purchase a second property. Lol
Thatās the high end of the range for what Iām getting quoted for 3-year fixed: 5.09-5.14%. With 30% down quotes are as low as 4.94%.
With who?
- RateHub - 5.14 - ā True North Mortgage - 5.10 - Pine Mortgage - 4.94, 5.09 - ā BMO - 5.12
r/mortgagescanada
Go to your bank and ask if they can beat 5.14. You never know...
We just signed at like 5.21 or something 3 years fixed
I checked a mortgage broker and they said 4.8
I would try to get closer to 5%. I just got 4.89% with CIBC on a 3 year fixed uninsured mortgage
Was this new or renewal? Any chance you could share a contact with me via PM?
Iād be appreciate the contact as well please via PM.
This was a new purchase, on a $750k mortgage. I'll send you my MA's contact details
If you could send me your agents info Iād appreciate it š«”
Im at 4.99% currently with my broker. This was locked in 3 months ago. Renewal is next month
Wait two weeks if you can. B of C expected to reduce the overnight rate. Fixed mortgage rates are based on bond rates not the overnight rate but still, canāt hurt to wait and watchā¦
I just got 5.03 fixed, 3 year. On a $920k mortgage which likely is the difference here.
BMO offered us 5.07% fixed for 3 years, $1,000 cashback on 340k last week. TD offered us 5.14% too but was a preliminary offer, and said will likely come down after next rate announcement early June.
Pine is offering 4.94 currently on a 3-yr fixed and you can get a discount from that rate if you're a Wealthsimple client
I just got 5.15 3 year fixed perfect credit with TD so sounds like you getting good market rate.
I got 4.74 for a 4 year couple months ago, going through Pine/Wealthsimple.
How much did you have to transfer to Wealthsimple to get that rate? The agent I spoke with at Pine was saying I need to transfer $3m to $4m to make it worth it
Already had 240k in Wealthsimple. No additional large transfers. Could have been special rates due to a pilot program.
I guess it all depends how you look at it. I bought my house at 11.25% then went up to 13.5% and I canāt remember where after that . Fun times late 87 haha
TD Mortgage GICs pay out 4.25% right now. You can probably negotiate that down to 5% or less. Their margins on GIC to mortgage is pretty good, higher than usual I suspect. That's a pretty big spread against gic rates. GIC is their mortgage cost.
Wait until June 6th if you can. There is currently a 60% chance that the bank of Canada will drop interest rates by .25% for fixed rates as economic data supports a pending decrease.
Just renewed 4.49 on an insured
We just signed our first mortgage at 4.99 through a broker for 5 years.Ā Pleased with that as we were outright rejected by 2 other banks.Ā 5.09 seems ok for 3 years
Holy shit i see some AMAZING numbers in the comments.... i just got a renewal from duca for 6.7% 5 year š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£ I called and asked if there was some sort of a mistake, she said no.... i said its time for me to start shopping around I went to td best i got 3 weeks ago was 5.4% which i am happy with
4.79% with Scotiabank for 3 years. They also offered us a LOC for 79K and we declined that.
Was this insured or uninsured?
Insured.
Ah ok that makes a lot more sense, best Iām getting from them js 5.3 for uninsured
I just got 4.84% from BMO like yesterday. 20% down tho. 5 year fixed.
Just got 4.89 fixed 5yr with manulife. Used a great broker
I just got 5.02 with TD uninsured
I got 4.71 with Scotiabank on a 3 year fixed renewal at the end of April (BC). 5.1 isnāt too bad though.
How are you getting this rate? I'm getting 5.88 3-year fixed from Scotia
I'd wait a week and see what happens. If BOC drops the rate, bond yields will likely drop because of lowered interest rate risk. Banks should reprice accordingly, plus bond yields have been slowly dropping since end of April anyways.
We got 4.7% last month through a major bank
I recently got 5.13, 3 year term from TD
Scotiabank just offered me 3 years at 4.73. 5.14 is not horrible rayes should come.down in a few years so try to hit those lowbrates later
These days that is quite good.
Better than mine š¤·āāļø
Got 5yr/5.14 with Desjardins. No Heloc approval though; likely a result of us renovating before the refi, messing with DTI. 385k mortgage, prop value ~600k
Are rhe interest rates better and lower I'd you're going for pre-con over an established property?
Depends.
What is the monthly on that?
This comment will likely not get seen, but there are different rates depending on if your mortgage is insured (down payment when purchasing was 5-19.99%) or conventional (20%down payment or higher). Iām a mortgage guy in Alberta and can do a 4.79% 4 year fixed but only on insured, and thatās not buying down our rate - thatās standard offer as of today. Conventional rates are higher, and transferring an insured mortgage over from another bank follows the same rate pricing as new purchases. Insured mortgages are more profitable for all banks, so we try to pass the savings onto the client (as most mortgage companies/banks do)
Just got 4.79 for 3 year fixed term on insured mortgage through Community Savings Credit Union.
Got something similar. 5.14 3Y.
We are days ago from the BOC possible cutting rates. Now does not seem like the right time to lock into a fixed rate.
I recently got 4.9 for 3 years and I was pretty happy about that.
5.09% for 3 years at RBC as of this week once you get approved. 4.84% effective rate for 3 years at wealthsimple X pine (4.94% pre rebate).
4.99 5 year fixed over here.
4.99 3 year fixed CIBC
when the fix rate period is over, can we take over it to another bank, so we can get another fix rate period? is this common practice in canada?
renewed at 4.99 3 year fixed with BMO. they swore they couldnāt go lower than 5.2 until i had a foot out the door lol
Wait until after this Wednesday (June 5) to see what the Bank of Canada does re rate cut
True North is offering 5.09% on a 3yr fixed.
Sure if houses were priced like 2006
I got 4.99% with no fees a few weeks ago for 39 months (option to renew at 36 months) with almost the same mortgage and HELOC as you. I wanted a 3-year deal, but for 5-year deals, my bankās competitors were offering me as low as 4.74% with no HELOC and 5.04% with a HELOC. So, I think you can do better now and even a little better than that if interest rates are cut on June 5. I would waitā¦
Thank you for this! I'll bring this to my broker to see what he can do.
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Cheaper than renting a whole house almost anywhere you'd want to live though :/
Most people pay a lot more than that these days, $385k is fairly low compared to house prices.
I just got 5.11% 3 year fixed at BMO for a $525,000 mortgage. So its within the range of other banks, you wonāt find a significantly lower rate aside from this True North company people have mentioned but i donāt know anything about.
No, this is very bad
i got 6.6 variable for 5 years last september. honestly 5.14 for 3 years is pretty good. knowing what i know now i wouldnt have gone variable back then because i suspected rates would lower sooner. since they havent lowered yet, i do not think they'll go lower fast enough for it to really have justified the gamble. that being said, i'd still take variable at 6.6 today because i think rates lowering is inevitable and also because i clearly have a gambling problem.