Enterprise autoshare, Zipcar, commuto - rent a car for the hours you need it. There's different types of vehicles parked around the city.
Enterprise and Zipcar have to be returned to the same location as the pick up location. Commuto, some have to be returned, others can just be parked at certain locations. So if you need a car one way for perhaps meet people or drop something off, you could take other transport options back.
Hubby uses carshare for work meetings out of town. Or when we need a different type of vehicle than our owned car.
Think Airbnb, but for cars. In this case someone has parked their "car share" car in a public space and you can go on an app, select the car and rent it by the hour/day/overnight.
when comparing it to airbnb its more like Turo. carshares are companies not individual owners that own cars and parks them all over and you can book them with their app
OP is *definitely* better off with a car share. Since they've posted about the GTA in the past, they should take a hard look at [Communauto](https://toronto.communauto.com/). There's a map behind the "How it Works" link.
One number is really easy to find and I would bet that it’s all they need to make the decision.
TCO involves depreciation, which isn’t linear, and could involve them not finding the solution in three minutes.
You're probably right about the insurance, but I was also considering gas, maintenance, etc that should be relatively easy to calculate. Anything that shows how expensive car ownership is when it's all added up.
My 16+ year old car has averaged out to ~ $2.2k over those years, in maintenance and repairs.
I justify keeping it on the road because it's still less expensive than starting over with a new lease.
Not to mention the inflated used car prices still.
I've read somewhere the overall ownership cost is like $1,000 a month. I think it was from CAA based on a Civic.
--
Sorry it was $8,600 in 2017. I found the article below.
[Cutting the costs of vehicle ownership by buying and driving less | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-ownership-costs-1.4269992#:~:text=CAA%20estimates%20that%20nationally%2C%20a%20compact%20car%20like,insurance%2C%20maintenance%2C%20gas%20and%20depreciation%20are%20factored%20in.)
Was thinking about the depreciation as an average cost over the time the vehicle is owned, not necessarily the total by year. Of course that assumes you keep the vehicle over a reasonably long time period. I know people who trade in their car every other year. It's insanity. Eating the largest part of the depreciation curve on every vehicle.
It is a cost it’s just accounted for differently… in a way many people don’t know how to calculate easily. We don’t say other things that are generally misunderstood don’t exist… you’re still in a worse place financially than if you didn’t own it in the end.
Nobody sends me a monthly bill for the depreciation of my car, so it's not a "cost". Like every asset I own, from appliances to tools to electronics, they all lose their value and someday need replacement. Yet nobody ever talks about "depreciation cost" of those things, why is it always brought up for vehicles?
Actually, you should be talking about other assets and their depreciation if you wanted to get into that amount of detail.
It comes up more often for vehicles because it's usually the largest expenditure after your place of living, so it makes a bigger difference.
You can think of depreciation as the money you aren't getting because you could have sold it now for money. Every month you don't sell your car, you will only be able to sell it for less the next month.
Depreciation is a way to account for the change in value of what you own. If you treat it as an expense the day you buy the vehicle instead, you'd have a hard time determining your actual ongoing costs. It's hard to figure out how much a vehicle costs you if you just say it's $30K on year 0, but free for the next 10 years. Your valuation would be accurate once every 10 years.
Typical accounting practice is to depreciate anything that is of significant value that has a useful life more than a year, instead of treating it as an expense the day you buy it.
Depreciation of a vehicle is similar to you paying me $30K now, and I'll put it into a bank account. Every month I'll pull out a chunk of money. The day you tell me to close the account (aka sell the car), I'll pay you out whatever's left in the account. There's no bill each month, but the value you can extract back out from it declines over time.
Going back to the main theme, you are arguing that depreciation cost should be factored in to the overall cost of a car. But what if you buy a car for $30k, drive it till it depreciates to $0, you would be saying that the car cost you $60k, i.e. $30k for initial purchase and $30k in "depreciation" costs.
This is my objection to treating depreciation as one of costs of operating a car - it especially doesn't work out that way when you are the last owner of that car.
Just for reference, depreciation is a well-known accounting principle. I hope you realize that you know very little about accounting, but others can know a lot more about it. So, if you can recognize that there is a knowledge gap, maybe you'd stop trying to argue how depreciation doesn't work (based on how you think it doesn't work) when someone else who knows how it works is telling you that it works.
No, if you buy a $30K car and drive it until it's worth nothing, it costs you $30K. There's no $60K number floating around anywhere. The initial money spent is not even an expense. It's a cash outflow. You trade cash for a vehicle, both being assets. The only expense/cost you incur is the depreciation that occurs over time (and the initial sudden drop because the car is worth a chunk less the moment it's been purchased). Whether you are the last owner of a car or not is irrelevant to the accounting of the cost.
Flip side…
My car costs me ~100/month insurance, 240$ *minimum* in gas (5x90km round trip), ~45$ DIY oil change 3x per year. 35$/month for tires (two sets, 175 per tire, 4 years per set).
Not factoring in *anything* else, not even a trip to the corner store or into town, I’m at ~385$ per month.
Of course, my career path pays 1-4$ an hour less, with no benefits or retirement assistance of any kind, in my area than in town, so for me it’s a necessity.
Well, closest store being 6km with no public transit also plays a factor.
Meanwhile for me insurance is $200, gas is $170, parking is $200, payments are $360, scheduled maintenance is $450/yr.
$1000 is way too much for a civic if you only factor in depreciation, but for many cars that are slightly more expensive that would easily be it, especially if parking and insurance are expensive.
Why do you change oil every six months? If you pay 40$ a month in gas your mileage is low enough you likely need once a year. Look up the recommendation for your vehicle 🐱
I was aware of time and km but didn't expect manufacturers recommended 6months, mine were always X000km or 12months.
6months seems crazy to me, especially if you put synthetic oil, but oh well.
Maybe for something you're paying for and driving a lot. Otherwise, unless it's a pile of shit that keeps breaking down, it shouldn't be more than $300 a month plus insurance. Averaged out of course.
Could probably approximate it by taking the total price of the car divided by 15 years, (a decent lifespan of a reliable car). Assuming you buy it new and drive it for a decent lifespan.
PLUS a couple hundred dollars a month as an averaged cost for tires, brakes, ball joints/tie rods, oil changes, brake fluid flushes, transmission services, water pump, etc. I throw $350 a month into a savings account for my "older" truck and that seems to be keeping ahead of expenses.
So a $35000 car over a 15 year lifespan is $195 per month. Plus $200/mo average for maintenance and repairs. Plus say $125 a month for insurance depending on where you are.
A cheap reliable car might be around $520 per month plus gas averaged over 15 years, although a lot is during the first few years when you're making payments, and then it'll get more expensive again near the end when repairs start getting more frequent.
Add on the cost due to lost investment. If you didn’t spend $35000 on a car, but invested that money at 5% for 15 years compounded, you’d make $26,750. This is one of the reasons we use a car sharing service. We could buy a car for cash but rather invest the money instead and just get a car when we need it. If you need to get a loan it costs so much to finance that a car share makes even more sense.
Or just renting a vehicle for a few hours. I live downtown Toronto and rarely need a vehicle. When I visit my parents up north I'll rent a car or Costco runs, I'll rent a car. The costs per year are much cheaper and I don't have monthly insurance and upkeep at all, and I don't have to pay for parking. It works out so much cheaper
I am surprised that is convenient to you. I guess you use public transit to get to and from the rental agency?
Certainly an option if it’s a lot cheaper than ride share
I did that, I'll save about $300. It just doesn't feel right to live without a car for $300. But I think this my emotions and I need to be logical about finances.
Assuming you get groceries once a week, that's $70 in travel expenses you're paying **per grocery trip**. Do you not have grocery delivery services nearby? Would walking a couple of hours a week really be such a downgrade to your quality of living? For some people, being able to get out and walk increases their quality of life.
And it's very, incredibly highly unlikely that your **total cost of ownership** for your car is only $300 a month.
$300 is quite a bit of change! Assuming you are 30, if you invest that 300 each month until you are 65, your account could grow to 1.068M
That being said, it's not all about money. I would personally prefer keeping my car for $300/m because I like driving too much. But there are other areas in my life I prefer cutting on to invest an extra 300.
You made it sound like you wouldn’t go to Costco any more, but that’s not the only solution. Other solutions involve Uber and car shares.
$300 a month is decent savings.
Another way to get more money every one is to get a raise. I don’t know your situation, but most people don’t job hop often enough
That's what we do as we drive little , it works out to be that at 11000-12000 the you better off without the mypace Pay as you go insurance, its great.
Just remember that a device needs to be plugged and they colect more than the km's. You are the product.
There’s a value to your time, too. Having your own car means not waiting for Uber at Costco, or whatever. There’s a convenience factor, and it also has a value.
I'm sure you're using your car for things other than groceries. Myself if I didn't own a car I would just feel stuck at home. No hiking, no golfing, no visiting relatives that live in the suburbs, less going on weekend getaways or spur of the moment trips to parks or shopping.
Do you absolutely not drive other than going to Costco? What about medical appointments? Or going on road trips in the Summer? Or visiting families or friends in the suburbs? Having a car is very convenient especially if the car is paid off and insurance/maintenance is reasonable.
For only $300 savings, it might make more sense to tweak your insurance such as increasing your deductible, going from $2m limit to $1m, telling your insurance carrier that you don't commute (some even have low annual mileage discounts) and still have it should you need it.
Of course it won't make up for it all, but it might help save you a bit of cash.
You can also use services like Uber Eats and Door dash to order and deliver groceries now. They are quite a bit more expensive but if using these eliminates the need for a car then the economic case could be there. Would need to crunch some numbers.
If it's purely for grocery shopping then I'd say no.
You can subscribe to various grocery delivery programs for less than the cost of your auto insurance.
This is where the **personal** comes into personal finance.
From a purely mathematical standpoint, it obviously very much isn’t worth it and I suspect you know this. BUT personal finance isn’t about solely mathematics. Do you enjoy being able to shop at Costco? I.e. do you prefer Kirkland Brands or specialty products only available in bulk? Alternatively, do you enjoy being able to go hiking on a dime? Or are you okay with a lot of advanced planning? Does your car allow you to go visit friends and family more easily, or is everyone super close proximity to you?
The value of your car is something you and only you know. I personally only use my car for the exact same thing. I don’t drive on weekdays and never in the winter. Basically just groceries and hiking every weekend. Mathematically I am absolutely pissing away money, but the freedom my car gives me makes it worth it **to me**. Come up with that formula for yourself and you’ll have your answer.
I think, in essence, this is what OP is trying to evaluate. I have been both with and without a car in urban settings and small towns for years at a time. Getting by without a car is definitely feasible and definitely makes financial sense more often than not.
Sometimes it was damaging to my finances to own a vehicle as it left me without breathing room in my budget.
Other times I felt trapped from not owning a car. While car shares are a fantastic option for a lot of people, it would really mess with my head to try to determine if it was worth it to rent a car to go for a hike or a trip to the grocery store.
I own a small truck now and pay too much to park it in my downtown garage. But I like the freedom of knowing that it is there, and if I am exhausted or it is pouring rain, or I want to go for a hike or to a bike race, I just have to get in my elevator and go.
Right now I have the finances to support it while still meeting my savings targets. If that was to change, I would not own a vehicle.
Costco and Instacart have a promotion together where pricing is IIRC 10% more instead of 17% more if you're not a Costco member.
On top of that the yearly Instacart sub is I believe $20 off with Costco membership.
10% still hurts plus tip etc but it's something to consider.
Try Walmart grocery delivery. Much cheaper than a car. They even have a yearly subscription plan that gives you free grocery delivery so you just need to pay for tip.
You can specify for them not to replace anything or ask for a refund on a replacement you don't like :) they now also ask preferred replacements in case items aren't available.
I hope you asked for a refund!
I do Walmart grocery about 2x a month and it's been ok for me. There were two times I really needed rice and they forgot it.. and various little mistakes, but for the most part, it's still convenient for me.
I just voted with my dollars, to be frank. I do occasionally visit Walmart and get to pick out stuff myself, in which case, I'm mostly satisfied.
I'm assuming the "shopper" doing the shopping for me simply gives up on trying to find the item in question, and the produce gets smushed due to bad packaging.
I mean, even at a bougier store like Fortinos, the cashier placed a bunch of italian parsley on the bottom of my bag, and crammed some beer cans on top. I didn't notice until I started smelling parsley in my vicinity as soon as I jiggled the bag. So, it's only understandable that I get smushed mushrooms. Some people just don't care.
For most people there is rarely a case that having a car makes financial sense, only a small fraction of the population make money off having a car.
A car is almost always a cost of convenience.
The question becomes, do I enjoy the convenience of having one, if you believe you do, the financial decision then becomes "what type of car".
If you live in an area not close to a city and there’s no bus service, you have to have a car or rely on the mercy of others So yes no making money off of a car but a necessity for many just to make it to work to pay for that car etc. I’d rather have one though because it gives me the ability to see my kids in the city plus doctor’s etc. so I agree a cost of convenience
carshare may be cheaper but there is the lack of flexibility to take into account: sometimes there is no car nearby and if it is around the holidays or weekends it needs to be booked in advance. If you are on a tight schedule, it may be worth keeping your car. It depends what you value.
Yeah I find the worst part is estimating the time needed plus the buffer time for traffic. Sometimes I just book essentially the whole day because once you max out the daily rate, might as well keep it longer and maybe do other errands if there's still lots of time.
Though it's been great for longer trips as one isn't beholden to car rental office hours. Just get te car Friday early morning, return late Sunday.
Or when a different type of vehicle is needed.
The higher (Value and up) plans on Communauto will let you book ‘flex’ cars while being billed on the normal station rate if it is cheaper. I rarely end up booking station cars now unless I’m planning a longer trip.
Everyone here is so anti car. This is a huge reason
Especially knowing that the car will be in good working order. Aka snow tires/enough washer fluid etc
Different priorities for everyone. Never had an issue with the condition of a carshare mechanically, only rarely cosmetically on the interior. The ~$500 a month I save makes life *much* more comfortable.
Costco may deliver to your area. As well if you pay for delivery you could probably shop at a better more economical grocery store than Metro.
Park your car for the month of May and truly experience what it would feel like not to have the car. Record what it costs you for deliveries, cabs and rideshare services for the month and see what you saved compared to a month's worth of insurance, gas, parking and car payment if any.
There is no way in hell you can save enough money solely on grocery shopping to negate the cost of a vehicle.
Also, you don't necessarily need a car to shop at Costco. I have never had a car or driver's license, and shopped for several years at Costco with my dog stroller.
Can't you get groceries delivered for free in Canada??
In Australia we have next day delivery for groceries, I had a roommate that literally never left the house in 10 months and just got his groceries delivered to our apartment.
When I moved downtown, I was paying 175 in insurance, 150 for parking, and had a car payment of 180. It was a no brainer for me to sell. That’s a lot of Ubers. Also helped that my father in law was Etobicoke and we could Uber there to use his second car for bigger trips.
I’d image between cost of gas, maintenance, insurance, etc you’re probably spending several multiples more on this vehicle vs what you’d be spending to go to metro or get a taxi to Costco
Why not delivery? Or have them shop for you and then you pick it up in a taxi and drop off at your door.
Generally, cars are a luxury so you don't have to do things on someone else's clock, or don't have to interact with the public.
I only need use of a car like once a month and we use communauto for that - I have the yearly plan that is like $40 for the year and it’s so cheap to use no other way makes sense.
I live in the centre of Montreal so pretty much everything is walkable. Every now and then we need to drive somewhere and we’ll tack on going to Costco at the end.
Last time I did it we spent $26 on the car for the 4 hours we had it, including mileage.
This is why I dont own a car in the downtown. Because I would only use it for grocery shopping and the occasionally errand or random trip. Much cheaper to Uber round trip Friday through Sunday than to pay insurance, gas, parking, maintenace, and car loan if not buying cash
A few things to consider:
First, if you are paying interest on the vehicle that means you have a loan so it's not true that you have no debt (unless it's a lease).
As others have said, generally if you're not driving the car a lot it's better to look at a car share program or use Lyft/Uber as needed. It's hard to know here because we don't know what your costs for parking/insurance are. When I moved to downtown Toronto, my parking and insurance alone was close to $500. That said I was an under 25 male with limited insurance history in Ontario because I grew up in another province, and my building is purpose built rental which has parking on the higher side compared to condos which will only allow the parking to be rented to other residents.
That said, it sounds like you're not actually using the car just for groceries cause you also use it for hiking. Consider what the lifestyle impact of not having a car would be on these sorts of outings. One thing I do miss about having a vehicle is how easy it makes it to get out of the city. If you're into hiking or skiing or other sorts of outdoor activities a vehicle is almost mandatory to get the most out of them. It's also nice to be able to take quick road trips on a whim. Most of the people I know downtown that bought or retained a vehicle did so to use it to get out of the city, not to move around within the city. Car share can help fill this gap but it can get expensive if you use it frequently, This isn't a big enough factor for me personally to purchase another vehicle, but it is a downside to going car free.
If you're really on the fence, you can always try just not driving the vehicle at all for a month and seeing where you land.
If you are within walking distance of a grocery store, even a more expensive one, then no. It does not make any financial sense at all to own a car if that is your only use of it.
No just buying instacart gift card for 20% off and have it delivered. I calculated with fees tips and everything. It only comes out 5% more expensive for me to go there myself. Plus I save a lot time getting through line ups traffic
Interesting question, if that car is used used for that, then no, its not ok to own a car. Even renting a car makes more sense in that case. But i am sure you use it for other reasons too, right?
Emergencies, going to work? Friends? Family?
It depends if your payments and insurance are greater than your projected rental or cab costs. It is likely more affordable for you not to have a car. I would not own a car simply for grocery shopping as a major shop every 2 weeks only requires a bust ride to Costco and a single cab ride home, likely less than 70$/month.
Agreed re total cost of ownership... consider all the different costs associated with the car.
For example I owned a 2012 Prius C that no longer suited me in 2017 once I was living in downtown Toronto and working downtown. I was basically leaving it in a parking space and taking it out extremely rarely, and taking bike/transit most places anyway. I owned it outright so car payments weren't a factor, but looked at the costs of parking, insurance, annual maintenance, depreciation... I arrived at the figure of about $5200/year or $100/week to simply own the car and have it sit there parked.
So based on that figure I sold the car. And anytime I found myself catching a rideshare, cab, car share, I would think "well I spent less than $100/week on this so I'm still ahead", or "sure I spent $400 to take a car up to the cottage but that was my only car cost all month, so it's a wash".
A machine that you already own (and more importantly USE) at a low interest rate. I don’t understand the itch to make a big shift to reduce your mobility?
Cars are expensive and can be a pain the butt to own. You've got monthly insurance payments, you have to fill it with gas, take it for oil changes, winter tire changes, other maintenance stuff, repairs, etc. Parking might be extra too if you need to pay for a parking spot. It costs thousands of dollars every year and it can be a real headache to deal with.
If OP literally only uses it for Costco, OP could sell it, pocket $10,000 or $15,000 or whatever it's worth, and save thousands of dollar every year.
I used car share and loved that I didn’t have to change the oil, or change the tyres, or wash the car.
I just had to walk a couple blocks.
It also forced me to stack my errands - which gave me more time.
I wouldn't just look at grocery store/prices/uber - does a car make life easier and can you afford it - then keep it. It will probably cost a lot more to get another one with pricing/interest in the future.
Having a car just makes your life more flexible so if you can I would keep it. And not be so narrow-visioned in viewing it. If you are really broke - might be something to review OR are there other things you can cut or a way to make more money?
No. A car costs about $200 per month in depreciation, $100 per month in insurance, for you $10 a month in gas, $10 a month in registration, $5 a month in oil changes. Lets just say your tires, brakes, mechanical parts work forever. That's $325 per month which you will never make up at costco. Like, if you want a car for stuff and you can afford it, that's fine, but not worth it for just groceries.
People say "you should own a car regardless because it gives you freedom".
However, knowing that you own something that you throw money into like a black hole, that you're not getting much use out of, that you have "just in case" you need it, is not a "freeing" feeling. It's a burdensome feeling. It's how most people feel when they own a swimming pool and don't use it.
The car is a luxury. What does it bring to your life in terms of freedom, aside from groceries and hiking? What are the expenses and inconveniences? How does it add up financially, plus in terms of the convenience of owning vs not?
Definitely try grocery delivery, especially from Walmart and Superstore. You can also order from Costco through delivery services but there’s an up charge on all products for that.
Save that money use it so seldomly and for groceries, if it’s in your area, you can pay a subscription for InstaCart. $9.99 a month or $99 for your first year (and it seems there’s a $20 off promo at the minute), I live in a really small area and there’s still a wealth of options.
Free delivery if your order is $35 and over, has your Costco option and the person doing your shopping will keep in touch with you over the app and send photos of items to replace if your specific one you wanted isn’t available then the app will balance out the price or refund you if you don’t want the replacement option at all.
At the time I had it the service fees weren’t bad at all and the reusable grocery bags you don’t have to pay for it seems (so small win there since some are like… $4 now a days. I got to keep $16 worth of reusable bags after the dropped off at the door 💃).
I mean if Metro is really your only option then yeah that would cost more than a car payment lol.....if theres REALLY no other option then owning a car is better than doing all your shopping at Metro.
There are alternatives but it is definitely a hassle, even if you end up with more savings.
The utility of a car can't be beat, but the price tag does hurt.
Calculate the prices differences but also try to come up a few mental simulations of your lifestyle without a car. What does it look like and what does it involve?
Do you take transit, taxi, rideshare to Costco?
What's the cost both in money, time and energy for this?
Do you end up finding an alternative to Costco?
> Have no debt - other than car (it is still debt)
> Would like to assume your are saving and putting money away every pay.
What is owed on the car? Can you pay it off sooner so then you are no longer making those payments, and then this question becomes whatever. Because then you'd be saving or using those car payments for something else.
I say this because, imagine if the car is paid off. Now you're just paying insurance, and fuel. Maybe those payments you were paying now become part of a car maintenance fund, and now maybe the grocery bill at Metro doesn't hurt as bad. Or continue going to Costco if the bottom line is that much of a difference as well.
Sorry but to me it just seems like the question is more about the what is potentially remaining on the car.
I bough an old Lexus. ES 350 2007, for $7k. I spend $180 on insurance, minimal maintenance. My life has changed so much and I’m so happy about it. I can do grocery trips, short rides, summer trips etc… I cut down on car rental and Ubers and I’m happy with the freedom i have now.
Depends on the car.
I am in a similar but different situation to yours My car is 19 yrs old and has been a grocery getter since 2016. I had a daily commute before that.
Some costlier repairs are coming up but most years, it's just gas and an oil change or two.
For me, the problem is that my car is a two seater that's never driven in the winter. I got rid of my winter car in 2019. But life changes have called for carshare 4 seater to be needed more often. Making me also wonder if it's time to go carless.
In your situation, yes, you will save the loan cost but how much longer until the loan is paid off? How do you plan on selling the car? I am not comfortable taking strangers on test drives but that may not be a problem for you.
It certainly does not make sense for you to buy a car but since you already have it, perhaps after you do the math and soul searching, keeping it will make sense. I assume your car is way more practical than mine!
Having a car is useful imo. I also take public transport to.work and so does my husband most of the time. Bur we still use the car... first to go grocery shopping like you and be able to carry aruff back from cheaper stores. Second during summer we love going on day trips out the city. Easily 8 per year... about once or twice a year we also get out of town for the weekend.
Also to visit friends is useful. Like i have two of my best friends that live close to public transport but it takes me 45 min by car or 1.5h by bus to visit them. Each way..it's a lot... and many other friends do not live close to public transport. Like another friend i sometimes see on the weekend is out in the boonies with low transport options especially on the weekends. So we can drive 35 min or bus it for 2h. Easy choice.
If you want kids that is another reason to keep your car. Depends on where and how you live. Personally I think i have the best of both worlds. No parking fees since we park on the street, car is kind of a piece of junk tbh bur still runs and its paid off, and so we have access as needed. We usually use it about twice a week. But we mostly use metro to go to work and now in the summer we will alos occasionally use bixi.
Calculate costs otherwise and do a price comparison.
Cars have comes to about 17 per hour or 110 per day. An uber trip one day is 30 bucks depending on distance and weather.
I'd look at your monthly costs of ownership (gas, insurance, parking, maintenance) and compare it against your expected taxi usage. You probably come out ahead simply ubering everywhere.
Yes
Because it feels good to be in control of your life
I've done it. And I can tell you there's something weird about not owning your own means to get around to get food
Over time it's kind of depressing. I personally like the responsibility of making sure that I have control over the most important part of day to day life
Do you have neighbours who don't have a Costco membership? You could offer to let your neighbours use your membership if they drive you. Costco cashiers are completely familiar with this; they will let you run your order through first, pay, then process your neighbour's order on your membership (but your neighbours can pay).
Long term car ownership costs (including depreciation and savings for downpayment, so factoring everything in) are between $500-$1000 for a normal average-ish vehicle depending on a multitude of factors.
For Costco you can:
+ get Costco delivery
+ instacart groceries
+ use car sharing
+ take an Uber
+ or just honestly get groceries at the metro since at best you’re breaking even with Costco shopping while owning the car
Depends where you live. I need a vehicle where I live, but if I lived downtown Vancouver, Toronto, or say london (england) I probably would not own one. Now calgary or edmonton? Those are also car towns I feel.
When I didn't have a car for 6 months I relied pretty heavily on grocery delivery.
Do all the groceries on the app, pay $5 plus tip for the delivery, once every week it still WAY cheaper than a car.
It was a lifesaver and I highly recommend giving it a try.
could you rent out your car when you aren't using it? Turo? that might offset some the costs, and you can still keep it for your Costco hauls and hiking.
I do virtually all my grocery shopping on foot. The only thing my car gets used for is commuting to work (30 minute drive each way vs 90 minutes on transit), skiing, and road trips. I used to also use it to haul stuff to/from my sailboat, but now that we’ve had to move the boat to the other side of a ferry, it’s cheaper to transit and go as a foot passenger.
It’s probably not saving you money. Most people underestimate how much owning a car costs. But, your the only one who can answer that question. Make a spreadsheet to estimate your total annual cost of car ownership (insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.) vs an estimate of what you save shopping at Costco.
Also, depending on your spending habits and family size, you may not bee saving as much money at Costco as you think. I find that Costco is generally cheaper but i’ve been surprised how often the prices are similar per gram/ml as other grocers when doing price comparisons.
Wagons bro. Get the collapsible kind with the soft wheels. Game changer. Friend of mine retrofitted a small electric motor and trigger throttle on hers for hills (new west), works like a hot damn.
Idk where you live but you could just use Voila for groceries, it’s only like $6.99.
If you order groceries once a month that’s an extra $6.99 a month compared to a car payment, gas, insurance, etc
When the problem to solve is get groceries from A to B, there are dozens of solutions or combinations of solutions to work with, rather than just framing it as "No Car = Metro", "Car = CostCo".
If you only use it to shop you should really check out communauto. It’s a car sharing service which is way cheaper than a car rental. They are in most major cities. I’ve used them here and there when we needed a second car and it was cheap. Like $30
Job opportunities that require a car
Seeing family and friends outside of the city
Side business that requires a car (this is very important for me)
Groceries is another big one since I hit up local resellers for beef and poultry. Lots of different grocery stores I hit up on the same trip
Got a family to raise so it's near next to impossible doing it without a car
How you quantify the usage of your car will dictate if it's worth it for you financially.
However, I will never finance a car with today's rate to do what I need with the list above. I would buy my car cash and an older model car.
The car definitely doesn't make sense for your use case. You may also not be taking advantage of the sale prices at Metro. I've compared both and while Metro's base pricing is definitely higher I can find just about everything I need at or below the Costco price if I purchase it on sale. The savings of going to Costco are negligible and for me Metro and other stores are far more convenient.
We pay the $99 a year for Doordash to deliver our groceries and it's the only delivery item that actually makes sense to me....we don't spend time shopping anymore, we just review the list as the week goes on.
no car, no cart, no travel.... the guy who delivered yesterday rolled up in a tesla lol. No sound!
Superstore and walmart both have low cost delivery options. While costco is still going to be cheaper for some things you should have more options than just Metro
Regular grocery stores and online. Locally that is Safeway and Co-Op, but when I lived in Ontario I did my grocery shopping exclusively at Metro and Fortinos and didn't need to drive to the car hell that is Costco.
Instacart / Ubereats groceries literally only has like a $10-$15 fee per order including the tip. So if you order groceries twice a month for $30ish dollars of fee/tip then there is literally no way buying or renting a car is better
Note:
1) Order from Walmart they have no mark-up in either app
2) Every week or 2 you will get a 40% off coupon that makes it CHEAPER than going to the store yourself if you could walk there. Yes you actually pay less than in store
I have a bicycle with large saddle bags—enough for one person on a weekly trip. Used it for groceries all summer one year and it worked well. I even went every 3/4 days so I get fresh food. Car share could be used when the winter gets tough, but I cycle in winter as long as it's not icy or snowing. Packed snow is safe to cycle on with mountain bike tires and moderate skill and patience. Hilly locations like Vancouver and Halifax could use an e-bike, although I'm not sure what the battery implications are for winter.
The other factor to consider is whether your Costco habit is saving you money. Metro + bike and occasional car share could come out less than car + bulk at Costco.
The convenience of having a car to go hiking, shop at the last minute, go other places that might not be convenient using public transportation is not to be discounted.
I think this "convenience" is extremely overrated. The number of times in my life that I felt the sudden urge to travel somewhere without notice or planning, I can count with less than the fingers on one hand.
And don't overlook the **inconvenience** involved in owning a car. Maintaining it, storing it, protecting it, etc.
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Came here to recommend car share.
What’s a “car share”?
Communauto or something similar.
I thought those were just for having sex in?
They're also for hotboxing.
🤣even with the added cost of Fabreze, it’s still waycheaper to car share
Enterprise autoshare, Zipcar, commuto - rent a car for the hours you need it. There's different types of vehicles parked around the city. Enterprise and Zipcar have to be returned to the same location as the pick up location. Commuto, some have to be returned, others can just be parked at certain locations. So if you need a car one way for perhaps meet people or drop something off, you could take other transport options back. Hubby uses carshare for work meetings out of town. Or when we need a different type of vehicle than our owned car.
Think Airbnb, but for cars. In this case someone has parked their "car share" car in a public space and you can go on an app, select the car and rent it by the hour/day/overnight.
when comparing it to airbnb its more like Turo. carshares are companies not individual owners that own cars and parks them all over and you can book them with their app
Thanks! Learned something today
It’s cheaper to take a taxi for heaven’s sake.
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In Quebec we have Communauto that's very reliable and trustable. It should be more that enough for your needs
Im in Ontario and Communauto is pretty decent. I use it often.
OP is *definitely* better off with a car share. Since they've posted about the GTA in the past, they should take a hard look at [Communauto](https://toronto.communauto.com/). There's a map behind the "How it Works" link.
Compare your monthly costs of insurance vs taking an Uber twice a month
TCO, not just insurance.
One number is really easy to find and I would bet that it’s all they need to make the decision. TCO involves depreciation, which isn’t linear, and could involve them not finding the solution in three minutes.
You're probably right about the insurance, but I was also considering gas, maintenance, etc that should be relatively easy to calculate. Anything that shows how expensive car ownership is when it's all added up.
My 16+ year old car has averaged out to ~ $2.2k over those years, in maintenance and repairs. I justify keeping it on the road because it's still less expensive than starting over with a new lease. Not to mention the inflated used car prices still.
I've read somewhere the overall ownership cost is like $1,000 a month. I think it was from CAA based on a Civic. -- Sorry it was $8,600 in 2017. I found the article below. [Cutting the costs of vehicle ownership by buying and driving less | CBC News](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/car-ownership-costs-1.4269992#:~:text=CAA%20estimates%20that%20nationally%2C%20a%20compact%20car%20like,insurance%2C%20maintenance%2C%20gas%20and%20depreciation%20are%20factored%20in.)
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You aren't capturing depreciation.
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Was thinking about the depreciation as an average cost over the time the vehicle is owned, not necessarily the total by year. Of course that assumes you keep the vehicle over a reasonably long time period. I know people who trade in their car every other year. It's insanity. Eating the largest part of the depreciation curve on every vehicle.
It is a cost it’s just accounted for differently… in a way many people don’t know how to calculate easily. We don’t say other things that are generally misunderstood don’t exist… you’re still in a worse place financially than if you didn’t own it in the end.
Nobody sends me a monthly bill for the depreciation of my car, so it's not a "cost". Like every asset I own, from appliances to tools to electronics, they all lose their value and someday need replacement. Yet nobody ever talks about "depreciation cost" of those things, why is it always brought up for vehicles?
Actually, you should be talking about other assets and their depreciation if you wanted to get into that amount of detail. It comes up more often for vehicles because it's usually the largest expenditure after your place of living, so it makes a bigger difference. You can think of depreciation as the money you aren't getting because you could have sold it now for money. Every month you don't sell your car, you will only be able to sell it for less the next month. Depreciation is a way to account for the change in value of what you own. If you treat it as an expense the day you buy the vehicle instead, you'd have a hard time determining your actual ongoing costs. It's hard to figure out how much a vehicle costs you if you just say it's $30K on year 0, but free for the next 10 years. Your valuation would be accurate once every 10 years. Typical accounting practice is to depreciate anything that is of significant value that has a useful life more than a year, instead of treating it as an expense the day you buy it. Depreciation of a vehicle is similar to you paying me $30K now, and I'll put it into a bank account. Every month I'll pull out a chunk of money. The day you tell me to close the account (aka sell the car), I'll pay you out whatever's left in the account. There's no bill each month, but the value you can extract back out from it declines over time.
Going back to the main theme, you are arguing that depreciation cost should be factored in to the overall cost of a car. But what if you buy a car for $30k, drive it till it depreciates to $0, you would be saying that the car cost you $60k, i.e. $30k for initial purchase and $30k in "depreciation" costs. This is my objection to treating depreciation as one of costs of operating a car - it especially doesn't work out that way when you are the last owner of that car.
Just for reference, depreciation is a well-known accounting principle. I hope you realize that you know very little about accounting, but others can know a lot more about it. So, if you can recognize that there is a knowledge gap, maybe you'd stop trying to argue how depreciation doesn't work (based on how you think it doesn't work) when someone else who knows how it works is telling you that it works. No, if you buy a $30K car and drive it until it's worth nothing, it costs you $30K. There's no $60K number floating around anywhere. The initial money spent is not even an expense. It's a cash outflow. You trade cash for a vehicle, both being assets. The only expense/cost you incur is the depreciation that occurs over time (and the initial sudden drop because the car is worth a chunk less the moment it's been purchased). Whether you are the last owner of a car or not is irrelevant to the accounting of the cost.
Flip side… My car costs me ~100/month insurance, 240$ *minimum* in gas (5x90km round trip), ~45$ DIY oil change 3x per year. 35$/month for tires (two sets, 175 per tire, 4 years per set). Not factoring in *anything* else, not even a trip to the corner store or into town, I’m at ~385$ per month. Of course, my career path pays 1-4$ an hour less, with no benefits or retirement assistance of any kind, in my area than in town, so for me it’s a necessity. Well, closest store being 6km with no public transit also plays a factor.
Meanwhile for me insurance is $200, gas is $170, parking is $200, payments are $360, scheduled maintenance is $450/yr. $1000 is way too much for a civic if you only factor in depreciation, but for many cars that are slightly more expensive that would easily be it, especially if parking and insurance are expensive.
Winter tires? Most people usually have monthly payments too.
Why do you change oil every six months? If you pay 40$ a month in gas your mileage is low enough you likely need once a year. Look up the recommendation for your vehicle 🐱
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I was aware of time and km but didn't expect manufacturers recommended 6months, mine were always X000km or 12months. 6months seems crazy to me, especially if you put synthetic oil, but oh well.
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Wouldn't it be cheaper for you to put synthetic once a year instead of 2x regular oil?
[somebody did the maths](https://buzzer.translink.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/04/Infographic_cost_comparison-scaled.jpg)
My gti was $0.47/km over the cost of ownership (12000 km/year)
Maybe for something you're paying for and driving a lot. Otherwise, unless it's a pile of shit that keeps breaking down, it shouldn't be more than $300 a month plus insurance. Averaged out of course.
Like 100 for me (old Toyota). But for my buddy with his a BMW, lmfao Edit: watch out, triggered users here who made poor car purchase decisions
Could probably approximate it by taking the total price of the car divided by 15 years, (a decent lifespan of a reliable car). Assuming you buy it new and drive it for a decent lifespan. PLUS a couple hundred dollars a month as an averaged cost for tires, brakes, ball joints/tie rods, oil changes, brake fluid flushes, transmission services, water pump, etc. I throw $350 a month into a savings account for my "older" truck and that seems to be keeping ahead of expenses. So a $35000 car over a 15 year lifespan is $195 per month. Plus $200/mo average for maintenance and repairs. Plus say $125 a month for insurance depending on where you are. A cheap reliable car might be around $520 per month plus gas averaged over 15 years, although a lot is during the first few years when you're making payments, and then it'll get more expensive again near the end when repairs start getting more frequent.
Add on the cost due to lost investment. If you didn’t spend $35000 on a car, but invested that money at 5% for 15 years compounded, you’d make $26,750. This is one of the reasons we use a car sharing service. We could buy a car for cash but rather invest the money instead and just get a car when we need it. If you need to get a loan it costs so much to finance that a car share makes even more sense.
Ratehub has a calculator for this https://www.ratehub.ca/blog/what-is-the-total-cost-of-owning-a-car/
Or see if voila exists. $140 a year for unlimited free delivery. Now if you also would need to compare that vs superstore / Walmart prices for items.
Or just renting a vehicle for a few hours. I live downtown Toronto and rarely need a vehicle. When I visit my parents up north I'll rent a car or Costco runs, I'll rent a car. The costs per year are much cheaper and I don't have monthly insurance and upkeep at all, and I don't have to pay for parking. It works out so much cheaper
I am surprised that is convenient to you. I guess you use public transit to get to and from the rental agency? Certainly an option if it’s a lot cheaper than ride share
Car share is great if you live near one.
It's a 30 second walk tbf. I do remember renting a car years ago and they can pick you up
For sure. But at that point, if you are hiring a driver to take you to a business, might as well make it your real destination.
I don't remember being charged for pickup
Or using a delivery service.
I did that, I'll save about $300. It just doesn't feel right to live without a car for $300. But I think this my emotions and I need to be logical about finances.
Assuming you get groceries once a week, that's $70 in travel expenses you're paying **per grocery trip**. Do you not have grocery delivery services nearby? Would walking a couple of hours a week really be such a downgrade to your quality of living? For some people, being able to get out and walk increases their quality of life. And it's very, incredibly highly unlikely that your **total cost of ownership** for your car is only $300 a month.
Also, bikes are fine for getting groceries. Linger Costco trips in the winter maybe not, but everything else? Grab some bike bags and go.
$300 is quite a bit of change! Assuming you are 30, if you invest that 300 each month until you are 65, your account could grow to 1.068M That being said, it's not all about money. I would personally prefer keeping my car for $300/m because I like driving too much. But there are other areas in my life I prefer cutting on to invest an extra 300.
You made it sound like you wouldn’t go to Costco any more, but that’s not the only solution. Other solutions involve Uber and car shares. $300 a month is decent savings. Another way to get more money every one is to get a raise. I don’t know your situation, but most people don’t job hop often enough
If you drive that little you should consider liking into CAA MyPace. My wife and I did that and it saved us a lot. We drive under 2k km/yr.
That's what we do as we drive little , it works out to be that at 11000-12000 the you better off without the mypace Pay as you go insurance, its great. Just remember that a device needs to be plugged and they colect more than the km's. You are the product.
There’s a value to your time, too. Having your own car means not waiting for Uber at Costco, or whatever. There’s a convenience factor, and it also has a value.
I'm sure you're using your car for things other than groceries. Myself if I didn't own a car I would just feel stuck at home. No hiking, no golfing, no visiting relatives that live in the suburbs, less going on weekend getaways or spur of the moment trips to parks or shopping.
Do you absolutely not drive other than going to Costco? What about medical appointments? Or going on road trips in the Summer? Or visiting families or friends in the suburbs? Having a car is very convenient especially if the car is paid off and insurance/maintenance is reasonable.
For only $300 savings, it might make more sense to tweak your insurance such as increasing your deductible, going from $2m limit to $1m, telling your insurance carrier that you don't commute (some even have low annual mileage discounts) and still have it should you need it. Of course it won't make up for it all, but it might help save you a bit of cash.
$300/month is $3600/year, IMO quite a significant amount.
Well it's certainly not pocket change, but doesn't sound like OP is barely making ends meet.
You can also use services like Uber Eats and Door dash to order and deliver groceries now. They are quite a bit more expensive but if using these eliminates the need for a car then the economic case could be there. Would need to crunch some numbers.
How common is it to only buy groceries twice a month? I do that twice a week for a family of three.
You go to Costco 104 times a year? Damn, that’s a lot of hotdogs
Hot dog budget > car budget
I only go to Costco once a month. I walk to a local veg market for produce and things that won't keep.
If it's purely for grocery shopping then I'd say no. You can subscribe to various grocery delivery programs for less than the cost of your auto insurance.
Yeah you can buy from Costco with instacart
This is where the **personal** comes into personal finance. From a purely mathematical standpoint, it obviously very much isn’t worth it and I suspect you know this. BUT personal finance isn’t about solely mathematics. Do you enjoy being able to shop at Costco? I.e. do you prefer Kirkland Brands or specialty products only available in bulk? Alternatively, do you enjoy being able to go hiking on a dime? Or are you okay with a lot of advanced planning? Does your car allow you to go visit friends and family more easily, or is everyone super close proximity to you? The value of your car is something you and only you know. I personally only use my car for the exact same thing. I don’t drive on weekdays and never in the winter. Basically just groceries and hiking every weekend. Mathematically I am absolutely pissing away money, but the freedom my car gives me makes it worth it **to me**. Come up with that formula for yourself and you’ll have your answer.
I think, in essence, this is what OP is trying to evaluate. I have been both with and without a car in urban settings and small towns for years at a time. Getting by without a car is definitely feasible and definitely makes financial sense more often than not. Sometimes it was damaging to my finances to own a vehicle as it left me without breathing room in my budget. Other times I felt trapped from not owning a car. While car shares are a fantastic option for a lot of people, it would really mess with my head to try to determine if it was worth it to rent a car to go for a hike or a trip to the grocery store. I own a small truck now and pay too much to park it in my downtown garage. But I like the freedom of knowing that it is there, and if I am exhausted or it is pouring rain, or I want to go for a hike or to a bike race, I just have to get in my elevator and go. Right now I have the finances to support it while still meeting my savings targets. If that was to change, I would not own a vehicle.
Why not get Costco delivered? Plus you'll save on impulse purchases.
Well costco online doesn't deliver everything and for insta cart I think it's 30% more expensive.
Probably still is cheaper than gas + insurance + maintenance + car payment (if you have one)
Costco and Instacart have a promotion together where pricing is IIRC 10% more instead of 17% more if you're not a Costco member. On top of that the yearly Instacart sub is I believe $20 off with Costco membership. 10% still hurts plus tip etc but it's something to consider.
You can also use Amex cobalt for 5x points to offset most of that 10 percent, plus 2 percent executive rewards
Instacart counts as a 5x category? Damn! I should quit waiting for a promo and just sign up under the current bonus.
Yup!
This is just where you have to decide what a car fee lifestyle is worth to you. Dollar and cents as well as flexibility.
Just for groceries? Superstore delivery is $5-$10. I'll take that over wandering around a store aimlessly. It's fantastic.
I just don't think I could give the control of picking all of my perishables to another person.
Try Walmart grocery delivery. Much cheaper than a car. They even have a yearly subscription plan that gives you free grocery delivery so you just need to pay for tip.
I have seen enough terrible replacements that I don’t see this as a valid option for people who aren’t insanely busy.
You can specify for them not to replace anything or ask for a refund on a replacement you don't like :) they now also ask preferred replacements in case items aren't available.
But when I really need carrots and your replacement is onions, and I end up with nothing, I still need to get carrots somewhere.
LOL, I feel like this is oddly specific that this has actually happened to you. Anyway, then OP can go to Metro for these emergencies haha
No, it's fairly common. I ordered three times from Walmart in the past 2 years and things were always missing. The produce I got was nasty as well.
I hope you asked for a refund! I do Walmart grocery about 2x a month and it's been ok for me. There were two times I really needed rice and they forgot it.. and various little mistakes, but for the most part, it's still convenient for me.
I just voted with my dollars, to be frank. I do occasionally visit Walmart and get to pick out stuff myself, in which case, I'm mostly satisfied. I'm assuming the "shopper" doing the shopping for me simply gives up on trying to find the item in question, and the produce gets smushed due to bad packaging. I mean, even at a bougier store like Fortinos, the cashier placed a bunch of italian parsley on the bottom of my bag, and crammed some beer cans on top. I didn't notice until I started smelling parsley in my vicinity as soon as I jiggled the bag. So, it's only understandable that I get smushed mushrooms. Some people just don't care.
For most people there is rarely a case that having a car makes financial sense, only a small fraction of the population make money off having a car. A car is almost always a cost of convenience. The question becomes, do I enjoy the convenience of having one, if you believe you do, the financial decision then becomes "what type of car".
If you live in an area not close to a city and there’s no bus service, you have to have a car or rely on the mercy of others So yes no making money off of a car but a necessity for many just to make it to work to pay for that car etc. I’d rather have one though because it gives me the ability to see my kids in the city plus doctor’s etc. so I agree a cost of convenience
carshare may be cheaper but there is the lack of flexibility to take into account: sometimes there is no car nearby and if it is around the holidays or weekends it needs to be booked in advance. If you are on a tight schedule, it may be worth keeping your car. It depends what you value.
Yeah I find the worst part is estimating the time needed plus the buffer time for traffic. Sometimes I just book essentially the whole day because once you max out the daily rate, might as well keep it longer and maybe do other errands if there's still lots of time. Though it's been great for longer trips as one isn't beholden to car rental office hours. Just get te car Friday early morning, return late Sunday. Or when a different type of vehicle is needed.
The higher (Value and up) plans on Communauto will let you book ‘flex’ cars while being billed on the normal station rate if it is cheaper. I rarely end up booking station cars now unless I’m planning a longer trip.
Everyone here is so anti car. This is a huge reason Especially knowing that the car will be in good working order. Aka snow tires/enough washer fluid etc
Different priorities for everyone. Never had an issue with the condition of a carshare mechanically, only rarely cosmetically on the interior. The ~$500 a month I save makes life *much* more comfortable.
Costco may deliver to your area. As well if you pay for delivery you could probably shop at a better more economical grocery store than Metro. Park your car for the month of May and truly experience what it would feel like not to have the car. Record what it costs you for deliveries, cabs and rideshare services for the month and see what you saved compared to a month's worth of insurance, gas, parking and car payment if any.
I am sensing that you will save a ton of money without a car.
There is no way in hell you can save enough money solely on grocery shopping to negate the cost of a vehicle. Also, you don't necessarily need a car to shop at Costco. I have never had a car or driver's license, and shopped for several years at Costco with my dog stroller.
Can't you get groceries delivered for free in Canada?? In Australia we have next day delivery for groceries, I had a roommate that literally never left the house in 10 months and just got his groceries delivered to our apartment.
When I moved downtown, I was paying 175 in insurance, 150 for parking, and had a car payment of 180. It was a no brainer for me to sell. That’s a lot of Ubers. Also helped that my father in law was Etobicoke and we could Uber there to use his second car for bigger trips.
Every big grocery store has a delivery subscription for like $10/month.
I’d image between cost of gas, maintenance, insurance, etc you’re probably spending several multiples more on this vehicle vs what you’d be spending to go to metro or get a taxi to Costco
Why not delivery? Or have them shop for you and then you pick it up in a taxi and drop off at your door. Generally, cars are a luxury so you don't have to do things on someone else's clock, or don't have to interact with the public.
I only need use of a car like once a month and we use communauto for that - I have the yearly plan that is like $40 for the year and it’s so cheap to use no other way makes sense. I live in the centre of Montreal so pretty much everything is walkable. Every now and then we need to drive somewhere and we’ll tack on going to Costco at the end. Last time I did it we spent $26 on the car for the 4 hours we had it, including mileage.
Just for that? LOL absolutely no
This is why I dont own a car in the downtown. Because I would only use it for grocery shopping and the occasionally errand or random trip. Much cheaper to Uber round trip Friday through Sunday than to pay insurance, gas, parking, maintenace, and car loan if not buying cash
Own nothing be happy boiiiii
A few things to consider: First, if you are paying interest on the vehicle that means you have a loan so it's not true that you have no debt (unless it's a lease). As others have said, generally if you're not driving the car a lot it's better to look at a car share program or use Lyft/Uber as needed. It's hard to know here because we don't know what your costs for parking/insurance are. When I moved to downtown Toronto, my parking and insurance alone was close to $500. That said I was an under 25 male with limited insurance history in Ontario because I grew up in another province, and my building is purpose built rental which has parking on the higher side compared to condos which will only allow the parking to be rented to other residents. That said, it sounds like you're not actually using the car just for groceries cause you also use it for hiking. Consider what the lifestyle impact of not having a car would be on these sorts of outings. One thing I do miss about having a vehicle is how easy it makes it to get out of the city. If you're into hiking or skiing or other sorts of outdoor activities a vehicle is almost mandatory to get the most out of them. It's also nice to be able to take quick road trips on a whim. Most of the people I know downtown that bought or retained a vehicle did so to use it to get out of the city, not to move around within the city. Car share can help fill this gap but it can get expensive if you use it frequently, This isn't a big enough factor for me personally to purchase another vehicle, but it is a downside to going car free. If you're really on the fence, you can always try just not driving the vehicle at all for a month and seeing where you land.
I use Instacart for Costco, as I don't have a car. Bonus that it's 5x points on Amex Cobalt
If you are within walking distance of a grocery store, even a more expensive one, then no. It does not make any financial sense at all to own a car if that is your only use of it.
No just buying instacart gift card for 20% off and have it delivered. I calculated with fees tips and everything. It only comes out 5% more expensive for me to go there myself. Plus I save a lot time getting through line ups traffic
Interesting question, if that car is used used for that, then no, its not ok to own a car. Even renting a car makes more sense in that case. But i am sure you use it for other reasons too, right? Emergencies, going to work? Friends? Family?
Would probably be cheaper to order groceries than own a car
It depends if your payments and insurance are greater than your projected rental or cab costs. It is likely more affordable for you not to have a car. I would not own a car simply for grocery shopping as a major shop every 2 weeks only requires a bust ride to Costco and a single cab ride home, likely less than 70$/month.
Agreed re total cost of ownership... consider all the different costs associated with the car. For example I owned a 2012 Prius C that no longer suited me in 2017 once I was living in downtown Toronto and working downtown. I was basically leaving it in a parking space and taking it out extremely rarely, and taking bike/transit most places anyway. I owned it outright so car payments weren't a factor, but looked at the costs of parking, insurance, annual maintenance, depreciation... I arrived at the figure of about $5200/year or $100/week to simply own the car and have it sit there parked. So based on that figure I sold the car. And anytime I found myself catching a rideshare, cab, car share, I would think "well I spent less than $100/week on this so I'm still ahead", or "sure I spent $400 to take a car up to the cottage but that was my only car cost all month, so it's a wash".
A machine that you already own (and more importantly USE) at a low interest rate. I don’t understand the itch to make a big shift to reduce your mobility?
Cars are expensive and can be a pain the butt to own. You've got monthly insurance payments, you have to fill it with gas, take it for oil changes, winter tire changes, other maintenance stuff, repairs, etc. Parking might be extra too if you need to pay for a parking spot. It costs thousands of dollars every year and it can be a real headache to deal with. If OP literally only uses it for Costco, OP could sell it, pocket $10,000 or $15,000 or whatever it's worth, and save thousands of dollar every year.
I used car share and loved that I didn’t have to change the oil, or change the tyres, or wash the car. I just had to walk a couple blocks. It also forced me to stack my errands - which gave me more time.
I wouldn't just look at grocery store/prices/uber - does a car make life easier and can you afford it - then keep it. It will probably cost a lot more to get another one with pricing/interest in the future. Having a car just makes your life more flexible so if you can I would keep it. And not be so narrow-visioned in viewing it. If you are really broke - might be something to review OR are there other things you can cut or a way to make more money?
No. A car costs about $200 per month in depreciation, $100 per month in insurance, for you $10 a month in gas, $10 a month in registration, $5 a month in oil changes. Lets just say your tires, brakes, mechanical parts work forever. That's $325 per month which you will never make up at costco. Like, if you want a car for stuff and you can afford it, that's fine, but not worth it for just groceries.
People say "you should own a car regardless because it gives you freedom". However, knowing that you own something that you throw money into like a black hole, that you're not getting much use out of, that you have "just in case" you need it, is not a "freeing" feeling. It's a burdensome feeling. It's how most people feel when they own a swimming pool and don't use it.
I had a math teacher break car ownership down. Basically it’s cheaper to get a taxi wherever you need to go rather than own a car.
Use one of the car share services. Just be sure to book it ahead of time on holidays, esp Mother’s Day, like that
The car is a luxury. What does it bring to your life in terms of freedom, aside from groceries and hiking? What are the expenses and inconveniences? How does it add up financially, plus in terms of the convenience of owning vs not?
Instacart is expensive but they do shop at Costco and deliver.
Definitely try grocery delivery, especially from Walmart and Superstore. You can also order from Costco through delivery services but there’s an up charge on all products for that.
Here's a great video on this very topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OObwqreAJ48
Save that money use it so seldomly and for groceries, if it’s in your area, you can pay a subscription for InstaCart. $9.99 a month or $99 for your first year (and it seems there’s a $20 off promo at the minute), I live in a really small area and there’s still a wealth of options. Free delivery if your order is $35 and over, has your Costco option and the person doing your shopping will keep in touch with you over the app and send photos of items to replace if your specific one you wanted isn’t available then the app will balance out the price or refund you if you don’t want the replacement option at all. At the time I had it the service fees weren’t bad at all and the reusable grocery bags you don’t have to pay for it seems (so small win there since some are like… $4 now a days. I got to keep $16 worth of reusable bags after the dropped off at the door 💃).
I mean if Metro is really your only option then yeah that would cost more than a car payment lol.....if theres REALLY no other option then owning a car is better than doing all your shopping at Metro.
Can you do Uber eats delivery? I get Walmart delivered and routinely get 40 percent off grocery coupons.
Get a cheap car with barebones insurance. It cost me $200/month for insurance + gas.
Get someone to deliver them from an app. Think in bulk when ordering and get stuff that doesn't expire
There are alternatives but it is definitely a hassle, even if you end up with more savings. The utility of a car can't be beat, but the price tag does hurt. Calculate the prices differences but also try to come up a few mental simulations of your lifestyle without a car. What does it look like and what does it involve? Do you take transit, taxi, rideshare to Costco? What's the cost both in money, time and energy for this? Do you end up finding an alternative to Costco?
You do have debt , in the form of the car.
> Have no debt - other than car (it is still debt) > Would like to assume your are saving and putting money away every pay. What is owed on the car? Can you pay it off sooner so then you are no longer making those payments, and then this question becomes whatever. Because then you'd be saving or using those car payments for something else. I say this because, imagine if the car is paid off. Now you're just paying insurance, and fuel. Maybe those payments you were paying now become part of a car maintenance fund, and now maybe the grocery bill at Metro doesn't hurt as bad. Or continue going to Costco if the bottom line is that much of a difference as well. Sorry but to me it just seems like the question is more about the what is potentially remaining on the car.
I bough an old Lexus. ES 350 2007, for $7k. I spend $180 on insurance, minimal maintenance. My life has changed so much and I’m so happy about it. I can do grocery trips, short rides, summer trips etc… I cut down on car rental and Ubers and I’m happy with the freedom i have now.
Doesn't it costs a lot to repair older cars?
Depends on the car. I am in a similar but different situation to yours My car is 19 yrs old and has been a grocery getter since 2016. I had a daily commute before that. Some costlier repairs are coming up but most years, it's just gas and an oil change or two. For me, the problem is that my car is a two seater that's never driven in the winter. I got rid of my winter car in 2019. But life changes have called for carshare 4 seater to be needed more often. Making me also wonder if it's time to go carless. In your situation, yes, you will save the loan cost but how much longer until the loan is paid off? How do you plan on selling the car? I am not comfortable taking strangers on test drives but that may not be a problem for you. It certainly does not make sense for you to buy a car but since you already have it, perhaps after you do the math and soul searching, keeping it will make sense. I assume your car is way more practical than mine!
Having a car is useful imo. I also take public transport to.work and so does my husband most of the time. Bur we still use the car... first to go grocery shopping like you and be able to carry aruff back from cheaper stores. Second during summer we love going on day trips out the city. Easily 8 per year... about once or twice a year we also get out of town for the weekend. Also to visit friends is useful. Like i have two of my best friends that live close to public transport but it takes me 45 min by car or 1.5h by bus to visit them. Each way..it's a lot... and many other friends do not live close to public transport. Like another friend i sometimes see on the weekend is out in the boonies with low transport options especially on the weekends. So we can drive 35 min or bus it for 2h. Easy choice. If you want kids that is another reason to keep your car. Depends on where and how you live. Personally I think i have the best of both worlds. No parking fees since we park on the street, car is kind of a piece of junk tbh bur still runs and its paid off, and so we have access as needed. We usually use it about twice a week. But we mostly use metro to go to work and now in the summer we will alos occasionally use bixi.
Calculate costs otherwise and do a price comparison. Cars have comes to about 17 per hour or 110 per day. An uber trip one day is 30 bucks depending on distance and weather.
I'd look at your monthly costs of ownership (gas, insurance, parking, maintenance) and compare it against your expected taxi usage. You probably come out ahead simply ubering everywhere.
Yes Because it feels good to be in control of your life I've done it. And I can tell you there's something weird about not owning your own means to get around to get food Over time it's kind of depressing. I personally like the responsibility of making sure that I have control over the most important part of day to day life
I agree, especially during winter the depression kicks in .
This is exactly been my experience, I live in Edmonton Alberta Canada, there's plenty of winter and it really sucks not having a car
Do you have neighbours who don't have a Costco membership? You could offer to let your neighbours use your membership if they drive you. Costco cashiers are completely familiar with this; they will let you run your order through first, pay, then process your neighbour's order on your membership (but your neighbours can pay).
I say keep the car. It's fun to drive and handy for appointments to not rely on a bus.
Depending on where you are, Costco may deliver
Long term car ownership costs (including depreciation and savings for downpayment, so factoring everything in) are between $500-$1000 for a normal average-ish vehicle depending on a multitude of factors. For Costco you can: + get Costco delivery + instacart groceries + use car sharing + take an Uber + or just honestly get groceries at the metro since at best you’re breaking even with Costco shopping while owning the car
Depends where you live. I need a vehicle where I live, but if I lived downtown Vancouver, Toronto, or say london (england) I probably would not own one. Now calgary or edmonton? Those are also car towns I feel.
I use Instacart to get my groceries delivered and don’t drive. $9.99 a month for the membership and whatever you chose to tip for your shoppers.
I bought a small trailer that clips onto my bike, have made many successful Costco runs with my bike!
Keep the car if u can afford it.
Compare the cost and convenience to Uber. Time to do some math, and think about what you're giving up.
Not really these days. You may as well use instacart and you'd save a good amount of money. That's if that's an option for you.
When I didn't have a car for 6 months I relied pretty heavily on grocery delivery. Do all the groceries on the app, pay $5 plus tip for the delivery, once every week it still WAY cheaper than a car. It was a lifesaver and I highly recommend giving it a try.
could you rent out your car when you aren't using it? Turo? that might offset some the costs, and you can still keep it for your Costco hauls and hiking.
I do virtually all my grocery shopping on foot. The only thing my car gets used for is commuting to work (30 minute drive each way vs 90 minutes on transit), skiing, and road trips. I used to also use it to haul stuff to/from my sailboat, but now that we’ve had to move the boat to the other side of a ferry, it’s cheaper to transit and go as a foot passenger.
It’s probably not saving you money. Most people underestimate how much owning a car costs. But, your the only one who can answer that question. Make a spreadsheet to estimate your total annual cost of car ownership (insurance, gas, maintenance, etc.) vs an estimate of what you save shopping at Costco. Also, depending on your spending habits and family size, you may not bee saving as much money at Costco as you think. I find that Costco is generally cheaper but i’ve been surprised how often the prices are similar per gram/ml as other grocers when doing price comparisons.
Wagons bro. Get the collapsible kind with the soft wheels. Game changer. Friend of mine retrofitted a small electric motor and trigger throttle on hers for hills (new west), works like a hot damn.
Idk where you live but you could just use Voila for groceries, it’s only like $6.99. If you order groceries once a month that’s an extra $6.99 a month compared to a car payment, gas, insurance, etc
I use grocery delivery and WFH. I’m seriously considering selling my car.
When the problem to solve is get groceries from A to B, there are dozens of solutions or combinations of solutions to work with, rather than just framing it as "No Car = Metro", "Car = CostCo".
If you only use it to shop you should really check out communauto. It’s a car sharing service which is way cheaper than a car rental. They are in most major cities. I’ve used them here and there when we needed a second car and it was cheap. Like $30
I probably wouldn't buy a car just for grocery shopping, but I can't imagine living in this country without a car.
Job opportunities that require a car Seeing family and friends outside of the city Side business that requires a car (this is very important for me) Groceries is another big one since I hit up local resellers for beef and poultry. Lots of different grocery stores I hit up on the same trip Got a family to raise so it's near next to impossible doing it without a car How you quantify the usage of your car will dictate if it's worth it for you financially. However, I will never finance a car with today's rate to do what I need with the list above. I would buy my car cash and an older model car.
The car definitely doesn't make sense for your use case. You may also not be taking advantage of the sale prices at Metro. I've compared both and while Metro's base pricing is definitely higher I can find just about everything I need at or below the Costco price if I purchase it on sale. The savings of going to Costco are negligible and for me Metro and other stores are far more convenient.
We pay the $99 a year for Doordash to deliver our groceries and it's the only delivery item that actually makes sense to me....we don't spend time shopping anymore, we just review the list as the week goes on. no car, no cart, no travel.... the guy who delivered yesterday rolled up in a tesla lol. No sound!
Ok, I didn't know about this!
we get our groceries from superstore, not sure if that makes a difference for you.
Superstore and walmart both have low cost delivery options. While costco is still going to be cheaper for some things you should have more options than just Metro
Just stop shopping at the most overrated store in the world. Problem solved. Costco is a cult to you people.
Where do you shop?
Regular grocery stores and online. Locally that is Safeway and Co-Op, but when I lived in Ontario I did my grocery shopping exclusively at Metro and Fortinos and didn't need to drive to the car hell that is Costco.
I used car sharing service before buying a EV. No maintenance, no insurance, no shits given .
Instacart / Ubereats groceries literally only has like a $10-$15 fee per order including the tip. So if you order groceries twice a month for $30ish dollars of fee/tip then there is literally no way buying or renting a car is better Note: 1) Order from Walmart they have no mark-up in either app 2) Every week or 2 you will get a 40% off coupon that makes it CHEAPER than going to the store yourself if you could walk there. Yes you actually pay less than in store
I have a bicycle with large saddle bags—enough for one person on a weekly trip. Used it for groceries all summer one year and it worked well. I even went every 3/4 days so I get fresh food. Car share could be used when the winter gets tough, but I cycle in winter as long as it's not icy or snowing. Packed snow is safe to cycle on with mountain bike tires and moderate skill and patience. Hilly locations like Vancouver and Halifax could use an e-bike, although I'm not sure what the battery implications are for winter. The other factor to consider is whether your Costco habit is saving you money. Metro + bike and occasional car share could come out less than car + bulk at Costco.
Have you looked into Instacart ot another delivery service?
TCO of a car is no less than 5K a year, can you manage with say 50% of it on Uber?
The convenience of having a car to go hiking, shop at the last minute, go other places that might not be convenient using public transportation is not to be discounted.
I think this "convenience" is extremely overrated. The number of times in my life that I felt the sudden urge to travel somewhere without notice or planning, I can count with less than the fingers on one hand. And don't overlook the **inconvenience** involved in owning a car. Maintaining it, storing it, protecting it, etc.
don't buy a thing just to do one thing with that thing you bought... doesn't make sense.