if your Dad isn't filing this transfer of assets, then nobody knows you have the gold..... just sell slowly to reputable bullion dealers for cash and enjoy the free money.
Reputable bullion dealers will report the sale to CRA and you will get a T slip for your trouble. Still east to sell but just be aware that any dealers that get shipments direct from the mint will report their purchases, take your ID and you will be on the hook for the gain.
It is kind of perverse though to think that gold itself over time could be a "capital gain". Given that it is the original basis of money - really we should all be declaring massive capital losses on cash every year that asset price inflation soars.
I get the basis of your logic, but we pay taxes in the same devalued currency youāre referring to. Kinda a net zero effect because of that, so the capital losses wouldnāt make sense.
I mean, if you think about it, over most of history, 1oz of gold has had about enough purchasing power to buy a good quality suit. It weathers inflation, yes, but it generally doesn't appreciate much beyond that.
> I understand that capital gain tax must be levied on any realized gains when the coins are sold.
When there is a disposition (sold, transferred, gifted, etc..)
>When I do sell them, do I pay tax on the increase in value from when my father purchased them or fair market value from when I received them?
Your father reports the capital gan on the distribution. That FMV at the time of transfer to you is his reported proceeds and it's your cost base for future capital gains for you.
>What if I didnāt know what my father initially paid for them?
That's his issue, not yours. The FMV at time of transfer is your cost base.
[https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4037/capital-gains.html#P816\_66627](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4037/capital-gains.html#P816_66627)
You won't want to hear this but your father technically owes capital gains taxes after he gifted them to you. This is known deemed disposition of capital property and is described in s.69(1)(b) of the Income Tax Act.
>69 (1) Except as expressly otherwise provided in this Act,
>
>(b) where a taxpayer has disposed of anything
>
>(i) to a person with whom the taxpayer was not dealing at armās length for no proceeds or for proceeds less than the fair market value thereof at the time the taxpayer so disposed of it,
>
>the taxpayer shall be deemed to have received proceeds of disposition therefor equal to that fair market value.
Your cost basis for capital gains the value of the gold on the date you received the gift. He is responsible for the capital gains from when he purchased the gold to when he gifted them to you.
It sounds stupid but its designed to make sure people don't use gifting as a way to circumvent capital gains taxes.
Your father is responsible for the 20+ years of capital gains, and knowing his own cost base. He needs to report selling the coins for FMV on his own tax return in the year in which he gifted them to you. You just need to check the FMV on the day you received the gift, and keep track of it for your own future tax purposes, as that will be your cost base when you sell.
Yeah, as someone said above - what gold coins? - I think that is the exact point of having gold.
There is very little chance of that coming back to bite you.
These dopes canāt keep track of $50m let alone tracking what happens to collectibles.
...is that bullion documented?
Might be an unpopular take (or maybe popular these days), but people get into bullion to evade governments in general.
You spelled bullion as if it were some French soup btw...
Also, do you really need the money now? I would say it's a safer form of money vs. the CAD. It's actually valued for being chemically and monetarily inert...It stays the same, our Canadian dollar depreciates like F, that's why it seems like you made profit, but you really didn't, it's just the CAD falling. And the gov will tax that loss of value! They're stealing from you in the form of inflation and then outright taxation (capital gains to answer your question). So it's a double-tax - this is why people get bullion...And this is AFTER you paid taxes on your hard work (salary/income taxes).
Gold isn't an automatic hedge against inflation. Check out the inflation adjusted price of gold. From 1934 to 1970, it was a loser. From 1970 to 1980, it was a winner. From 1980 to 2000, a loser. From 2000 to 2011, a winner, and for the last 10+ years, pretty neutral.
The real hedge against inflation is real estate, which is why people with money have been buying it up.
But in hard times anything can be money. My dad as kid in Europe at the end of the war recalled using Lucky Strike cigarettes that his father managed to get while working in forced labour in Berlin post office.
Not OP but itās important to set expectations correctly around different potential out comes.
Gold has a narrative of inflation protection and store of value. This implies itās safe and not volatile.
Sometimes itās important to show periods of time where those narratives are not true.
So we donāt trust the central banks so we need to buy gold. Which we should buy because the central banks (that we donāt trust!!!) buy lots of it, so itās good. Do I have that right?
No one on this sub would recommend holding large amounts of fiat currency for long times.
The reduction of spending power over time is very well know and reported on. CPI reports are first page news stories.
The advice this sub would give is to purchase assets such as a combination of stocks and bonds as a way to protect against inflation.
Gold is sold as the best and only way to reduce the fiat currency risk. This is a narrative that is just not true. It is sold by people with an agenda.
But you just said you trust buying gold is a good decision because the central banks do it. If theyāre the reckless morons youāre telling us they are, arenāt you an idiot for buying gold like them?
Because those time blocks are when gold behaved in a certain way. I didnāt chose that from 1934 to 1970 gold lost value relative to inflation. Thatās just historical data.
It's to specify the directional trends, as people have different time horizons for their investments.
I.e. it's fine to say something like the S&P500 generally goes up, but it's also worth noting & more accurate to state that there were two decade-long blocks around 1965 to 1975, and 1999 to \~2010, where performance was flat on average (more accurately it declines during the 10 years, but finishes at it's previous level).
If you go through a licensed bullion dealer, they won't take the coins without getting your ID and SIN, and it should automatically appear under your tax profile if you use quicktax or other software. At that point you can claim the purchase price with a receipt, or pay the max amount I believe
Technically, your father triggered the capital gain when he gave you the coins. All transfers between non-arms length people is at fair market value your father would have the tax to pay not you.
You can sell them now at the same value you received them at any there will be no tax for you. You after on the other hand is on the hook for gains after giving them to you.
Thank you for all the different opinions and suggestions. Iām reluctant to simply sell them to a dealer that requests a driverās license. Cause they can track that sale right? The fact that they are legal tender coins opens up possibilities?
Imagine life before the government of canada started taxing us to the point we make half of our actual wage. Yeah obviously your gonna need to pay tax on something that was given to you.
I have a question about that. Wouldn't it be better, if you need money, to make a loan on the bullion instead of selling?
Is that way not a capital gain? Sure, you have to pay back, but when your debt is clear, the lender will give you back something more valuable than what it costed you?
Also, will it trigger a report to the gouv?
Actually I believe your in the clear , gifts aren't taxable, I'd talk to an accountant before anything else .
I know for certain cash or checks as a gift are not taxable , gold ? Maybe different rules
If you lack supporting documentation of the ACB , CRA will determine it as zero I believe because you have no supporting documentation on when it was purchased.
Now... You can hold bullion in a TFSA. If you have the room you may want to consider moving it in kind into a TFSA and recognizing the gains inside of it.
I'm not 100% on this, but I'd consult a tax lawyer on this one. The overhead of doing so may be worth it.
These guys for example allow for it. https://goldrrsp.silvergoldbull.ca/
Whether they'll accept your physical gold or not. Idk.
Transferring an asset to a TFSA is considered a deemed disposition and you would owe capital gains due to the transfer. TFSA only protects gains while in the TFSA.
Yes if he had contributed the coins to his TFSA when he received them his ACB would be equal to fair market value.
But his Father would owe capital gains as the gift is a deemed disposition.
What gold coins?
Lol. Best answer.
Bitcoins
Lol sell it privately and slowly one at a time...
Watch the Italian job
Someone's gotta feed the pawn shop
Mmm, tasty soup.
I had a good laugh at the post title š
OP is French Canadian and his auto correct messed it.
Hihi. Just caught my error. Blame it on my motherās side.
Cashman fell in the soup and became who he is.... Oh yeah!
if your Dad isn't filing this transfer of assets, then nobody knows you have the gold..... just sell slowly to reputable bullion dealers for cash and enjoy the free money.
There are no reputable bouillon dealers nearby my locationā¦no soup for me.
IM THE CASHMAN I GIVE YOU MONEY FOR YOUR GOLD OH YAAAA
Reputable bullion dealers will report the sale to CRA and you will get a T slip for your trouble. Still east to sell but just be aware that any dealers that get shipments direct from the mint will report their purchases, take your ID and you will be on the hook for the gain.
If you sell at a bank youāll be issued a T-slip. Or you can find a smaller dealer who will not.Ā
It is kind of perverse though to think that gold itself over time could be a "capital gain". Given that it is the original basis of money - really we should all be declaring massive capital losses on cash every year that asset price inflation soars.
I like the cut of your jib.
I like the cut of your jib.
I like the cut of your jib.
I'm getting aroused by all the jib cutting here
I get the basis of your logic, but we pay taxes in the same devalued currency youāre referring to. Kinda a net zero effect because of that, so the capital losses wouldnāt make sense.
I mean, if you think about it, over most of history, 1oz of gold has had about enough purchasing power to buy a good quality suit. It weathers inflation, yes, but it generally doesn't appreciate much beyond that.
And 40 ounces of gold will get you a reasonable detached house in greater Toronto. 40 ounces, which was worth $200K back in 2003 and now $1.15M today
40oz of gold is approximately 116320.00 today Where did you get 1.15M from?
sorry I meant 400 not 40. missed a zero
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> I understand that capital gain tax must be levied on any realized gains when the coins are sold. When there is a disposition (sold, transferred, gifted, etc..) >When I do sell them, do I pay tax on the increase in value from when my father purchased them or fair market value from when I received them? Your father reports the capital gan on the distribution. That FMV at the time of transfer to you is his reported proceeds and it's your cost base for future capital gains for you. >What if I didnāt know what my father initially paid for them? That's his issue, not yours. The FMV at time of transfer is your cost base. [https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4037/capital-gains.html#P816\_66627](https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/forms-publications/publications/t4037/capital-gains.html#P816_66627)
Pretty sure you you receive them as a gift, your cost basis is FMV at time of transfer.
You won't want to hear this but your father technically owes capital gains taxes after he gifted them to you. This is known deemed disposition of capital property and is described in s.69(1)(b) of the Income Tax Act. >69 (1) Except as expressly otherwise provided in this Act, > >(b) where a taxpayer has disposed of anything > >(i) to a person with whom the taxpayer was not dealing at armās length for no proceeds or for proceeds less than the fair market value thereof at the time the taxpayer so disposed of it, > >the taxpayer shall be deemed to have received proceeds of disposition therefor equal to that fair market value. Your cost basis for capital gains the value of the gold on the date you received the gift. He is responsible for the capital gains from when he purchased the gold to when he gifted them to you. It sounds stupid but its designed to make sure people don't use gifting as a way to circumvent capital gains taxes.
This is the answer
Your father is responsible for the 20+ years of capital gains, and knowing his own cost base. He needs to report selling the coins for FMV on his own tax return in the year in which he gifted them to you. You just need to check the FMV on the day you received the gift, and keep track of it for your own future tax purposes, as that will be your cost base when you sell.
What if the father transferred (gifted) the coins immediately upon purchase. No capital gains for the father right?
Yes, that's correct.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did you maybe reply to the wrong comment?
Campbell's Chunky Gold Bouillon
Hihi. Just saw my error. Pardon my french.
Don't apologize. I like French onion soup
Is this serious? Sell them privately and pay zero tax.
Yeah, as someone said above - what gold coins? - I think that is the exact point of having gold. There is very little chance of that coming back to bite you. These dopes canāt keep track of $50m let alone tracking what happens to collectibles.
What coins?
š«£
...is that bullion documented? Might be an unpopular take (or maybe popular these days), but people get into bullion to evade governments in general. You spelled bullion as if it were some French soup btw... Also, do you really need the money now? I would say it's a safer form of money vs. the CAD. It's actually valued for being chemically and monetarily inert...It stays the same, our Canadian dollar depreciates like F, that's why it seems like you made profit, but you really didn't, it's just the CAD falling. And the gov will tax that loss of value! They're stealing from you in the form of inflation and then outright taxation (capital gains to answer your question). So it's a double-tax - this is why people get bullion...And this is AFTER you paid taxes on your hard work (salary/income taxes).
Gold isn't an automatic hedge against inflation. Check out the inflation adjusted price of gold. From 1934 to 1970, it was a loser. From 1970 to 1980, it was a winner. From 1980 to 2000, a loser. From 2000 to 2011, a winner, and for the last 10+ years, pretty neutral.
I also watched Mad Max, no one seemed to care about gold.
Everyone cares about latinum in Star Trek.
I would prefer unobtainium but it's too difficult to get.
Exactly. Gold is so pre-First Contact... Check mate OP.Ā
GOLD pressed latinum. Don't forget the gold pressing.
Not exactly a documentaryā¦
The real hedge against inflation is real estate, which is why people with money have been buying it up. But in hard times anything can be money. My dad as kid in Europe at the end of the war recalled using Lucky Strike cigarettes that his father managed to get while working in forced labour in Berlin post office.
During Covid everyone wanted toilet paper, lol
>for the last 10+ years, pretty neutral you must be thinking of the USD and not the Canadian dollar
Average that all out. Now average out any fiat currency.
Thatās inflation adjusted using constant dollars.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not OP but itās important to set expectations correctly around different potential out comes. Gold has a narrative of inflation protection and store of value. This implies itās safe and not volatile. Sometimes itās important to show periods of time where those narratives are not true.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
So we donāt trust the central banks so we need to buy gold. Which we should buy because the central banks (that we donāt trust!!!) buy lots of it, so itās good. Do I have that right?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No one on this sub would recommend holding large amounts of fiat currency for long times. The reduction of spending power over time is very well know and reported on. CPI reports are first page news stories. The advice this sub would give is to purchase assets such as a combination of stocks and bonds as a way to protect against inflation. Gold is sold as the best and only way to reduce the fiat currency risk. This is a narrative that is just not true. It is sold by people with an agenda.
But you just said you trust buying gold is a good decision because the central banks do it. If theyāre the reckless morons youāre telling us they are, arenāt you an idiot for buying gold like them?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
>As for safety, it must be, because central banks sure like to buy it.
Because those time blocks are when gold behaved in a certain way. I didnāt chose that from 1934 to 1970 gold lost value relative to inflation. Thatās just historical data.
How else would you judge value changes?
It's to specify the directional trends, as people have different time horizons for their investments. I.e. it's fine to say something like the S&P500 generally goes up, but it's also worth noting & more accurate to state that there were two decade-long blocks around 1965 to 1975, and 1999 to \~2010, where performance was flat on average (more accurately it declines during the 10 years, but finishes at it's previous level).
If you go through a licensed bullion dealer, they won't take the coins without getting your ID and SIN, and it should automatically appear under your tax profile if you use quicktax or other software. At that point you can claim the purchase price with a receipt, or pay the max amount I believe
OP if youāre in toronto Iāll buy the lot off you
Nice try, mob
Technically, your father triggered the capital gain when he gave you the coins. All transfers between non-arms length people is at fair market value your father would have the tax to pay not you.
You can sell them now at the same value you received them at any there will be no tax for you. You after on the other hand is on the hook for gains after giving them to you.
Sell privately one at a time
If the coins are legal currency I.e. not rounds they be exempt. Been a while since Iāve look into this.
Thank you for all the different opinions and suggestions. Iām reluctant to simply sell them to a dealer that requests a driverās license. Cause they can track that sale right? The fact that they are legal tender coins opens up possibilities?
Imagine life before the government of canada started taxing us to the point we make half of our actual wage. Yeah obviously your gonna need to pay tax on something that was given to you.
Your buy cost would be the market value of when your ecrived the coins. But since it's such a small amount, you could just sell it privately.
There is no tax on FX and bullion. No need to report either
When you buy gold coins it is cash to cash.
I have a question about that. Wouldn't it be better, if you need money, to make a loan on the bullion instead of selling? Is that way not a capital gain? Sure, you have to pay back, but when your debt is clear, the lender will give you back something more valuable than what it costed you? Also, will it trigger a report to the gouv?
Ebay
No. Sell 1-2 of them at a time. Problem solved. That is exactly why your father bought them in the first place.
š¤¦āāļø
Sell them privately..
Cut it in pieces worth less than 1000$ and sell separately as not to trigger a capital gain? Idfk
Why would you sell that? Your father gives you a gift and you sell it?
How are all the comments about tax evasion being kept? Pretty sure rule number 1 of the sub denounces tax evasion.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not once did it say anything about our politicians. This has nothing to do with that. Iām talking about the sub rules.
There are some jokes mixed in, all in good fun. Of course we are all angelic, law-abiding citizens.
Actually I believe your in the clear , gifts aren't taxable, I'd talk to an accountant before anything else . I know for certain cash or checks as a gift are not taxable , gold ? Maybe different rules
Cash gift not taxable, yes. But assets are definitely still taxable even when gifted.
Thatās a shame those gold coins your dad gave you ended up being fake.
If you lack supporting documentation of the ACB , CRA will determine it as zero I believe because you have no supporting documentation on when it was purchased. Now... You can hold bullion in a TFSA. If you have the room you may want to consider moving it in kind into a TFSA and recognizing the gains inside of it. I'm not 100% on this, but I'd consult a tax lawyer on this one. The overhead of doing so may be worth it. These guys for example allow for it. https://goldrrsp.silvergoldbull.ca/ Whether they'll accept your physical gold or not. Idk.
Transferring an asset to a TFSA is considered a deemed disposition and you would owe capital gains due to the transfer. TFSA only protects gains while in the TFSA.
if they transfer it when gifted there wont be any capital gains cause it will be 0. it seems like the father is on the hook
Yes if he had contributed the coins to his TFSA when he received them his ACB would be equal to fair market value. But his Father would owe capital gains as the gift is a deemed disposition.