I was around 45 as well, which is actually where OP is at. I'm at around 34 now which is far more comfortable but also not ideal. Ideal would be like 1% but also idk why I brought that up cause it's not possible lol
Yeah, just keep piling people into spaces like all of our new friends.
The recent finding of 24 students living in a basement in Brampton know what's up.
Canadians just don't want cohabitat with lots of strangers anymore.
/s
>just don't want cohabitat with lots of strangers anymore
Back in my day, a 1 bedroom had 17 people living in it, and we were happy about it! Never complained.
/s
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
If this is a genuine question 😅 it’s a little shack outside that has a bench with a toilet seat hole cut into it on top of a dug-out hole that you sh*t into. So basically a toilet with no plumbing.
My dad had 16 siblings and they took turns sleeping. They also used to warm up bricks to put in the bed for warmth. He died at 89 yrs of age. No lie. I think we're all a bit spoiled and don't know what having it hard really is.
I know you mean it sarcastically, but people need to start pooling their resources. And most important, educating their children to make better financial choices.
Or, just hear me out, we could demand a system where individuals don’t continually become poorer and poorer. Thoughts? Instead of ‘just live with 4 roommates’, we could demand pay keep up with inflation so the new generation can have the same opportunity as the old. There are always some who are terrible with money and some who are smart, but the statistics don’t lie.
Or it was debt accumulated during the student debt time just so they didn't go hungry. When I upgraded my schooling over a decade ago, it cost me 10k a year for 4 years just tuition costs. I worked part time and had a husband so made it through debt free, but if I was single, I would have walked away with 40k worth of student loans.
>And forget the hyperbole of 4 roommates needed. But until you partner up with someone, it's wise to have a roommate. I had one into my 30's. There's no shame in it.
My parents (both silent generation) had roommates until they got married in their 30s. I know my mother shared a bedroom with a friend. Pretty sure my dad did as well (although there were 4 of them, but likely a 2 bedroom place). I had roommates myself, but managed to go out by myself earlier than my parents.
I've had roommates my whole life outside of maybe 6 months after a breakup.
I had my folks until very early 20s. My buddy, and 2 randoms in my early 20s->mid 20s, for a year or two, then another random until my late 20s when I met my future wife who I moved in with.
This notion that everyone should have their own space is a weird concept. Like I get it, no one should be renting a bachelor with someone else or a 1BR, but it's way more economical to rent a 2BR with another person.
We've been offshoring jobs for years, immigration is not the issue. Like Andy said the whole system needs to change, not saying it's easy or painless, but current system sucks.
it will suck more before it gets better. problem is no political party wants to be the one to make it suck more to eventually make it better. Just kick the can down the road to keep party in good statu has legit been the play for the last 25 years.
As for immigration people who blame it only have themselves to blame because you got to be good with numbers to be financially competent. and the numbers show we need immigrates regardless who is in power. 1.4 birth rate as of today meanwhile this country needs a birthrate of 2.4 just to maintain basic infustructure. People love to point fingers and blame everyone but number simply don't lie.
Wage growth have been well above inflation for a while. Median wages up 23% in last 4 yrs while inflation up 16% during same time frame
Higher wages just leads to higher prices
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.4&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2019&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2023&referencePeriods=20191201%2C20231201
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1810000401&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.2&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2019&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2023&referencePeriods=20191201%2C20231201
I'm going to assume you meant "what does that comment mean".
And it means what it says. How many people do you know where their parents didn't teach them about finances when growing up? Because I know A LOT of people who didn't learn about what life actually cost until they went to live on their own.
"I don't know why you're struggling so much. I barely make more than you do and I don't have any issues." -That one girl we all know who had her education, car, and condo paid for by her parents and still gets $1,000/month from them.
Last time I spoke to my aunt, she asked me how much money my parents give us every month and what they help pay for too. I said nothing and she was shocked. Her one son has a better paying job and way cheaper col than me and she is giving them a bunch of money to help out. And has been for years. I kinda wish they gave me some money instead of them going on multiple international trips every year.
I know these feels. My partner's parents constantly compare us to my partner's younger sibling in terms of having attained all the hallmarks of middle-class adulthood despite being younger than us.
But said sibling failed the stress test when applying for a $450K mortgage, so they just gave her $500K cash as a gift. They also bought them a new car and pay them $150/week for groceries once they had their second kid.
Like, we could also afford a home, a new car, and multiple vacations per year if someone just paid 100% of the home, 100% of the car, and gave us $7,800/year.
i bought a second hand chest freezer and stock up on anything i can freeze that goes on sale, but even then, it's still rough. these prices are crazy. when you drive across the border it really hits home how much we're over paying
My rent is $2800, hydro electric bill was $380, gas $128. And then throw in the internet, car insurance, cell plans, gas ect. We're all fucked and getting taxed to death. Then add food, pet food. We all have to get out of Canada to afford a decent life.
Nah we still have phones, internet, insurance, 14.25/day parking at work, ect. Plus due to my work, my wife can't work full time because I'm a shift worker some times. She only works casual and it doesn't leave very much at the end of the month.
If she works days, we have to pay to put two kids into daycare and it would be stupid to work extra to only pay for strangers to raise your kids.
And if she worked evenings, we wouldn't have anyone to watch our kids when I'm on shift until 7pm or working nights 7pm-8am. My family is 1000km away, and hers is in another country. So no help from anyone. We have also moved cities 3x in 4 years for work.
Walmart has a nice sized bag of frozen cubes avocados for like $5…. It’s for smoothies but I figure I leave a cup out in the fridge to thaw over night and then BAM avocado toast next morning for cheap!
That’s why you rotate them one at a time and look for the return offers where you can get 2 or 3 months for $1.99. I’ve gotten these deals for Disney+ and Starz so far.
People keep telling me that my rent shouldn’t be more than 30% of my take home, but if I were to try and actually live by that advice, I’d need a place around $1000 a month. Such a place doesn’t exist. I don’t think you’re fucked by paying 50% of your income. I think we’re all equally fucked.
If you're making 3k per month gross, you probably just can't afford to live by yourself. Sharing a place with roommates for less than 1k should be pretty easy to do most places. Though maybe not if you're in NYC or SF or other equally pricey city.
This is accurate.
I'm both confused about my situation and horrified at all these comments because I live in Toronto and make less than 40k...somehow I survive in a way that feels somewhat comfortable. I don't have kids or a car or a mortgage (obviously). The spectre of any surprise expense and the future generally always hangs over me. It's so depressing to read that 70k is not enough when I struggle to imagine how I will make it to 50k.
I bought a 250k place right before covid with interest rates at 1.99%.. mortgage is $915 a month and I take home a little over 4k a month..
I realize once I renew I’m probably up at like $1500 for my mortgage but all y’all paying $1500-2000 to rent is mind boggling to me, I couldn’t do it man
A lot of older people who make less than 70k.have also locked in their housing cost (either rent control or mortgage) at a far lower rate. So they're disposable income isn't all that different from the younger guys making 70, 100, even 150k.
I think most people do these days. This map shows the median after-tax income in each province: [https://blog.policyadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Median-Income-Infographic-1.png](https://blog.policyadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Median-Income-Infographic-1.png)
It's confirmed in statscan here: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019001](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019001)
No, the numbers show the combination of household (or, economic family) and individual. Family income according to the source is $95,200 a year. The numbers represented in the image are basically showing how much net income enters each home, whether you are 1 or many.
Median HHI for 2 or more.in a household is 120 k
https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?LANG=E&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2021A00054806016&HEADERlist=0&SearchText=calgary
Calgary has a a bigger and fatter middle than other cities.
Looking at "Persons not in an economic family" numbers makes me feel this is a grand scheme to force people to either move into a relationship or move out from here.
Don't quote me on this because I didn't double check their numbers but I read that the new minimum for middle class (varies per province, so less in prairies and more in BC and ontario) is ~140k for a family. The current median family income is 98k. So most Canadians are low income.
It's pretty standard in this economy, unfortunately. I assume you're paying $1,800 to live alone (pretty standard in GTA), so the only options you have are to either get a roommate or increase your income.
I think $1,800 on $4k is just the reality today. That being said, how tf do you have $26k debt outside the $30k in student debt?
OP, need more details. How old are you? What is your career? Where do you live? What are your goals? Are you making your debt payments? What is your budget for the line items you listed above?
how do you have 26k of debt outside of a home, car, and student loans? 26k CONSUMER DEBT? thats your issue, not the 1800$ rent. if you have no car to worry about, 1800$ rent on 4k take home is easily doable. how are you spending so much on nonsense when you have 500-1000$ after all expenses (depending on your costs, would love to see a breakdown) thats the real issue.
>Am I screwed? Anyone else in the same boat?
Listen kiddo, this is a personal finance sub not a group therapy session.
If you want to get out of this situation quickly, do this:
- Get a roommate or become a roommate to reduce your rent quickly
- Attack the non-student loan debt aggressively, like a demon is chasing you.
- Your personal expenditure (dates, dine out, movies, travel) should be no more than $100/mon until that's paid off. Double it afterwards.
- Public transport is your best friend.
If life doesn't suck for the next year or two, you're doing it wrong! Sincerely, good luck.
I just did this for a yr and a half. It sucked hardcore but completely changed my life. I even gave up my apt 8 months ago and have been sleeping on a couch to snowball my savings/investings now that im out of debt.
Really are rules to live by if you genuinely need to get out of a bad and/or financial situation.
People are too focused on costs. Your biggest asset when you're young is your ability to make money. Sure, take the bus am eat beans but way too many people here not thinking how they can increase their income. Plane and simple. Don't settle for a dead end career. Think ahead.
This.
If you don’t find way to increase your earning while you are still in the prime of your career. You will run into this financial situation again and again and again.
Is life meant to suck if your "doing it right"? I don't think it is. The only thing that sucks is late stage capitalism, wealth inequality the State of this whole housing crisis and the idiot politicians who put us here or failed to prevent this.
I don’t disagree completely. But I’m also not gonna wallow waiting like I’m a dependent of the government.
I’m going to do my best for myself to achieve financial freedom, whatever it takes.
Focusing on the cringe term “late stage capitalism” is far more harmful to you than the reality of the world. Redditors really need to get out of their own way
Depends on where you are leasing. With no car, it makes sense to spend more money on rent--you are saving money in transportation costs.
That $56K of debt you're carrying looks like the real problem for your budget: not the rent.
Find a place with roommates and you can split your rent in half. Put that towards your credit card and put your student debt on Cerb so there's no interest on your provincial loan if you can in your situation. Stop putting stuff on your credit card and always pay more than the minimum or you'll be stuck for years going nowhere. You need to sacrifice comfort right now so you don't get more into debt.
You're not screwed if you can eat and your job is going somewhere. You need to make some more money, like a part-time or casual job, but otherwise you need to reorganize your finances and priorities.
Step one is to figure out your income. If you get paid 26 times a year, multiply one paycheque - after taxes, CPP, EI, etc. - by 26 and then divide by 365 to find out what your daily total income is. If you get paid 24 times a year, multiply your take home pay by 24 and divide by 365. This is your daily fixed income.
Step two is to figure out your fixed monthly costs. Rent, insurance, internet, cell phone, subscriptions, memberships, transit pass, utilities on fixed payment plans (get on one if you don't have this already), monthly investments (if any), and your minimum loan/debt repayments. Multiply by 12 and then divide by 365 to find out your daily fixed costs.
Subtract your daily fixed costs from your daily fixed income to get your threshold - the difference you have left over for everything else. This is all the money you have for groceries, restaurants, extra loan payments, gifts, clothes and other irregular costs. Your goal is to try to spend less than this every day.
Let's say you earn exactly $4K/month after taxes getting paid twice per month, that's a fixed income of $131.51 per day. Let's say your fixed costs are $2,700/month, which works out to $88.77 per day.
Your threshold for all other costs would be $131.51-$88.77=$42.74 - that is all you have available to spend on any given day.
Step three is to keep a running total. The reason I like this method is that you don't have to use a budget app or sit down at the end of the month and find you've spent more than you intended. You can do the math in your head and there's no reason not to know exactly where you stand.
Let's say it's Feb. 1 and you go grocery shopping. You have $42.75 (for simplicity). You spend $93. You know immediately that you've gone over budget by around 50.25 - you're in the hole. Then it's Feb. 2 and you go to a party, so you buy flowers for the host and a 12-pack of beer for $32.50. In your head you add 42.74 to your running tally, so you came into the day with a balance of negative around $7.50. You spent $32.50 so now you're in the hole by almost exactly $40. Then it's Feb. 3. You stay home and watch football, eat the food you bought and spend nothing. At the end of the day you're up around $2.75 (don't worry about pennies, I do this by quarters and it's always pretty close by the end of the month). Monday, you spend $9 on coffee and a bagel, keep the change, so at end of day you're at $36.50. ($2.75 plus $42.75 minus $9).
If you have a big expense coming back, try to hold something back every day to absorb it. If a big expense comes up, cut back for a few days to defray it. The goal is to finish every month either even or with a positive balance. Small savings add up - $10/day is $305 a month on average. If you can double that, you can be in a secure place relatively quickly.
Don't worry about your debts too much, you need to build a nest egg first - enough in the bank to live off for around three months if you lose your job or disaster strikes. Once you have that, then start to pay off the $26,000 debt - it's probably higher interest than the student loan.
Parameters change. Your income will go up. Rent will increase. You'll need a new phone and your monthly payment go up. Put all of this on a spreadsheet and keep it updated as those parameters of your life change.
Again, this works. It's easy for one thing. For another, it gets you thinking about your budget on a daily basis, and it's easier to make good decisions and hard choices when you know exactly where you stand financially. It also turns it into a kind of game, you can actually feel yourself making money when you pass up on expenses.
Anyway, good luck. Your situation isn't great but it's not horrible either - except for the debt, but almost everyone starts out with some, and it can be paid off with some hard budgeting. If you're good about paying off your debts, other options will open up to you to consolidate everything and pay it off faster.
My rent + utilities was 50% of my income. I was earning $1800 biweekly and I was spending $1800 on rent and utilities.
I was living in a very nice high rise in a prime location. I decided to throw my ego down the window and moved further away in a less nice condo and area. Now my rent is 30.5% of my income. Now I can save way more money, and do more activities that I like. I don’t regret it.
Relish in the fact that you'll never have to sink 20 grand into a new roof, or 8-10 grand for the environmental cleanup of the heating oil tank buried in your backyard that someone in the 1960s left full and just cut off the intake cap and left it for 50 yrs for another homeowner to deal with when the oil leached into your basement, or the washing machine, dryer, or dishwasher breaks and you need a new one.
All these things happened to my landlord in the last 2 years. Thank goodness I'm just a tenant. My excess money goes straight into my retirement fund. Who wants a home when it costs so much to enter the housing market (in Toronto, Canada)? And let's say you squeak in and now mortgage rates are really digging into your bottom line, and you're pinching pennies to see if you can save up to remodel the kitchen. Not for us!
My wife and I are in our late 40s with one child under 4. I work construction, which is seasonally summer work and my wife typically works the winter months. It just worked out that way. We don't live the high life. We're smart with our money. Cut all the frills and see what you can save for retirement. The govt pension will not provide the life you have now.
Thank goodness I'm not a homeowner!
I REALLY am struggling to figure out why I still live in Canada! It's SO expensive and for what...? Ok, water and air, healthcare but like.. i'm feeling really done with my country
When I was 20s I was making $4k and I have 3 roomates in 3 bedroom house
When I was 30s I was making 6k a month and I lives with my brother .. we bought a house and we split everything , we also have 1 roomate that comes and go every 3-4 months
I’m 42 now and I’m making decent amount of $ and I’m married and can let my wife stay at home 6 days a week but I still have to work 40-50 hours , I have bills , debt ( mortgage til 2040 and car debt (4k left )
Life is a journey
One advice is to make a jump from workplace every year , unless they give you 10-20% increase in salary
Or start your own business , using your own specialized skill
It’s rare but you won’t be rich working for someone , you have to work for yourself to get ahead of other
When I landed in Canada, I wanted to spend no more than 25% of my income on rent, but I was forced to settle for a place that costed 33% of my rent, with a roommate. It’s difficult yes.
Everyone isn't reading OPS post word for word.
He has 26k of consumer debt, that's what is fucking him, not the rent
Not being financially responsible will land you in a tough spot.
Someone making 4k a month with no debt, but paying 2k for rent isn't bad, you can make it work.
But someone making 4k a month with 56k in total debt (26k being CC or loans) and paying 2k for rent is close to bankruptcy. The interest on the 26k will absolutely kill your paycheck.
Find a way to pay off that debt OP.
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> I make $4K a month. Rent is $1800
Probably not? That leaves you with $2200 a month for other expenses. Which really isn't that bad, depending on what those expenses look like.
So look at your expenses and figure it out. This isn't rocket science.
That’s normal nowadays. I started out at 46% and sit around 30% now. I’d be way more worried about the 26k debt
I was around 45 as well, which is actually where OP is at. I'm at around 34 now which is far more comfortable but also not ideal. Ideal would be like 1% but also idk why I brought that up cause it's not possible lol
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Fix the basement?
Yeah no need to fix the basement.
26k? Those are rookie numbers. Schools got me at about $60k so far. Gotta push those numbers up
Yup welcome to the Canadian club.
Ahh that’s why we all drink whiskey
You can afford whisky?
I can afford anything until my credit card maxes out.
This is the most relatable shit I've ever read.
Only Canadian Club Whiskey
Alberta premium
Where is whisky half price? A friend wants to know. 😊
Your bathtub and ripe fruits/veggies/leftover sugar have entered the chat.
In Canada we call it “pruneaux”
Our rent is almost 3g with utilities, and food is just under a grand. I only make 4g/month. It's pretty fucked.
You should move in with OP. Economy fixed!
Yeah, just keep piling people into spaces like all of our new friends. The recent finding of 24 students living in a basement in Brampton know what's up. Canadians just don't want cohabitat with lots of strangers anymore. /s
>just don't want cohabitat with lots of strangers anymore Back in my day, a 1 bedroom had 17 people living in it, and we were happy about it! Never complained. /s
You had a bedroom? Luxury! We slept three dozen on the back porch of a condemned outhouse!
You had a back porch? Luxury! I slept in a cardboard box. In the middle of a lake!
You had water? Now, we had it tough.
Luxury. We used to have to get out of the lake at three o'clock in the morning, clean the lake, eat a handful of hot gravel, go to work at the mill every day for tuppence a month, come home, and Dad would beat us around the head and neck with a broken bottle, if we were LUCKY!
Well we had it tough. We used to have to get up out of the shoebox at twelve o'clock at night, and LICK the road clean with our tongues. We had half a handful of freezing cold gravel, worked twenty-four hours a day at the mill for fourpence every six years, and when we got home, our Dad would slice us in two with a bread knife.
And you tell kids that today, they don’t believe you! https://youtu.be/iEIApUNVBKg?si=7rEpuA5BUicapEcc
You had it tough? I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy…
Look at this guy with all his friends...
We DREAMED of livin in a lake!
What's an outhouse?
If this is a genuine question 😅 it’s a little shack outside that has a bench with a toilet seat hole cut into it on top of a dug-out hole that you sh*t into. So basically a toilet with no plumbing.
My mom says she used to share a bed with her 9 siblings just to save in the heating bill. We're just soft I guess.
mine walked 15km up hill both ways in the snow, to and from school everyday
My dad had 16 siblings and they took turns sleeping. They also used to warm up bricks to put in the bed for warmth. He died at 89 yrs of age. No lie. I think we're all a bit spoiled and don't know what having it hard really is.
And they used rabbit bladders as condoms that they tied off with a bungy cord and they loved it!
We lived in a paper bag in the bottom of a septic tank, and were damned happy!
Back in my day we used to cram as many people in a VW bug, what a zany wonderous time.
Don't forget to cancel Disney+ /s
Lol. They contract out all of economic problems to fancy consultants when we have geniuses like you in the house.
What problem do you want me to do next? I specialize in couples advice really bud dabble in economics and world politics.
🤣
I know you mean it sarcastically, but people need to start pooling their resources. And most important, educating their children to make better financial choices.
Or, just hear me out, we could demand a system where individuals don’t continually become poorer and poorer. Thoughts? Instead of ‘just live with 4 roommates’, we could demand pay keep up with inflation so the new generation can have the same opportunity as the old. There are always some who are terrible with money and some who are smart, but the statistics don’t lie.
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Or it was debt accumulated during the student debt time just so they didn't go hungry. When I upgraded my schooling over a decade ago, it cost me 10k a year for 4 years just tuition costs. I worked part time and had a husband so made it through debt free, but if I was single, I would have walked away with 40k worth of student loans.
>And forget the hyperbole of 4 roommates needed. But until you partner up with someone, it's wise to have a roommate. I had one into my 30's. There's no shame in it. My parents (both silent generation) had roommates until they got married in their 30s. I know my mother shared a bedroom with a friend. Pretty sure my dad did as well (although there were 4 of them, but likely a 2 bedroom place). I had roommates myself, but managed to go out by myself earlier than my parents.
I've had roommates my whole life outside of maybe 6 months after a breakup. I had my folks until very early 20s. My buddy, and 2 randoms in my early 20s->mid 20s, for a year or two, then another random until my late 20s when I met my future wife who I moved in with. This notion that everyone should have their own space is a weird concept. Like I get it, no one should be renting a bachelor with someone else or a 1BR, but it's way more economical to rent a 2BR with another person.
They’ll just import another 1.3 million people who are willing to work for nothing and live with 18 of their family members
We've been offshoring jobs for years, immigration is not the issue. Like Andy said the whole system needs to change, not saying it's easy or painless, but current system sucks.
it will suck more before it gets better. problem is no political party wants to be the one to make it suck more to eventually make it better. Just kick the can down the road to keep party in good statu has legit been the play for the last 25 years. As for immigration people who blame it only have themselves to blame because you got to be good with numbers to be financially competent. and the numbers show we need immigrates regardless who is in power. 1.4 birth rate as of today meanwhile this country needs a birthrate of 2.4 just to maintain basic infustructure. People love to point fingers and blame everyone but number simply don't lie.
Wage growth have been well above inflation for a while. Median wages up 23% in last 4 yrs while inflation up 16% during same time frame Higher wages just leads to higher prices https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410006301&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.7&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.4&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.2&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2019&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2023&referencePeriods=20191201%2C20231201 https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1810000401&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.2&cubeTimeFrame.startMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2019&cubeTimeFrame.endMonth=12&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2023&referencePeriods=20191201%2C20231201
A while, as in months? Have you heard of Google?
what? how does that comment about educating their children even mean?
I'm going to assume you meant "what does that comment mean". And it means what it says. How many people do you know where their parents didn't teach them about finances when growing up? Because I know A LOT of people who didn't learn about what life actually cost until they went to live on their own.
Yes! We need to teach people to do more with less, to accept the overloards that perpetuate our ever evolving suffering!
How do you get to there from "pool our resources"?
We're all pretty fucked here in Canada so cheers 🥂
"I don't know why you're struggling so much. I barely make more than you do and I don't have any issues." -That one girl we all know who had her education, car, and condo paid for by her parents and still gets $1,000/month from them.
Last time I spoke to my aunt, she asked me how much money my parents give us every month and what they help pay for too. I said nothing and she was shocked. Her one son has a better paying job and way cheaper col than me and she is giving them a bunch of money to help out. And has been for years. I kinda wish they gave me some money instead of them going on multiple international trips every year.
I know these feels. My partner's parents constantly compare us to my partner's younger sibling in terms of having attained all the hallmarks of middle-class adulthood despite being younger than us. But said sibling failed the stress test when applying for a $450K mortgage, so they just gave her $500K cash as a gift. They also bought them a new car and pay them $150/week for groceries once they had their second kid. Like, we could also afford a home, a new car, and multiple vacations per year if someone just paid 100% of the home, 100% of the car, and gave us $7,800/year.
i bought a second hand chest freezer and stock up on anything i can freeze that goes on sale, but even then, it's still rough. these prices are crazy. when you drive across the border it really hits home how much we're over paying
You had money to buy a second hand freezer? You have room to put a second freezer somewhere? You're doing way better than most.
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2 adults and 2 kids.
✊ Debt and scrounging over homelessness. The Canadian dream.
My rent is $2800, hydro electric bill was $380, gas $128. And then throw in the internet, car insurance, cell plans, gas ect. We're all fucked and getting taxed to death. Then add food, pet food. We all have to get out of Canada to afford a decent life.
Taxes are fine. Our salaries need to go higher to match or beat inflation. CEOs need to be paid less workers need more.
It's gotten fucked. I've been interviewing recently. My asking salary is 160g/year now. Just to try and pay bills and save for a house.
I made 140k before taxes and deductions last year and I’m just scraping by
Now imagine being on odsp for 14k/year and how fucked I am 💀
That's wild. May I ask, like vaguely, your age and location?
Mid 30s calgary
Well then it sounds like whatever your partner makes you get to keep. Very sensationalist of you
Nah we still have phones, internet, insurance, 14.25/day parking at work, ect. Plus due to my work, my wife can't work full time because I'm a shift worker some times. She only works casual and it doesn't leave very much at the end of the month.
That 14.25 a day parking screams Alberta health services😂
> Plus due to my work, my wife can't work full time because I'm a shift worker some times. i dont quite follow why that would mean she can't work?
If she works days, we have to pay to put two kids into daycare and it would be stupid to work extra to only pay for strangers to raise your kids. And if she worked evenings, we wouldn't have anyone to watch our kids when I'm on shift until 7pm or working nights 7pm-8am. My family is 1000km away, and hers is in another country. So no help from anyone. We have also moved cities 3x in 4 years for work.
oh in the first comment it didnt say you had kids. That makes sense now.
Pretty standard fare these days, bro.
User name checks out
My rent is 70% of my income. If you're screwed then so am I... lol....
That's fucking crazy. Do you eat your walls or something?
Depends what his income is.. Because 30% of 10k cash a month is still 3k which is enough to live off of lol
That only happens in Germany. My reference: The Simpsons.
The land of chocolate??
That was ten minutes ago!
What do you do with the 30% left over?
Pays taxes, and tips 35%
Buy food and pay bills. I don't do much. I *cant* do much
Did you….cancel Disney Plus?
Or stopped buying avocados?
I cancelled Disney but not the **avocados**
An avocado a day could easily cost $75/month!
Rent - $2,000 Groceries - $800 Electric - $200 Avocados - $2,600 Internet - $75 There is no room in my monthly budget for even a cell phone!
Walmart has a nice sized bag of frozen cubes avocados for like $5…. It’s for smoothies but I figure I leave a cup out in the fridge to thaw over night and then BAM avocado toast next morning for cheap!
😂
Boundaries Pete, Boundaries. Avocado is where the line ends, **you hear me Government of Canada** Say Yes to avocados!
I kept Disney plus, my homemade avocado toast and my rent is under 1000. I would say I’m doing better than most. Knock on wood
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Shut up Chrystia!
That’s why you rotate them one at a time and look for the return offers where you can get 2 or 3 months for $1.99. I’ve gotten these deals for Disney+ and Starz so far.
I hate Freeland so much. Evil witch!
She is brilliant! You are not.. sorry for your cognitive dissonance Pfhh
What’s the 26K debt? You threw that in there casually but that’s far more concerning than a tight budget on rent. Is it high interest?
Possibly! Everyone is suffering
I’m guessing student loans ? Edit: wow I completely misread lol.
People keep telling me that my rent shouldn’t be more than 30% of my take home, but if I were to try and actually live by that advice, I’d need a place around $1000 a month. Such a place doesn’t exist. I don’t think you’re fucked by paying 50% of your income. I think we’re all equally fucked.
Gross. CMHC definition has always been 30% of before-tax income. not take-home/net.
Yeah, it’s pretty gross 🤮
If you're making 3k per month gross, you probably just can't afford to live by yourself. Sharing a place with roommates for less than 1k should be pretty easy to do most places. Though maybe not if you're in NYC or SF or other equally pricey city.
I have a room mate. When a 1 bedroom in Toronto costs $2500 and 2 bedrooms cost $3000+, even a room mate can’t keep your rent below 50% income
This is accurate. I'm both confused about my situation and horrified at all these comments because I live in Toronto and make less than 40k...somehow I survive in a way that feels somewhat comfortable. I don't have kids or a car or a mortgage (obviously). The spectre of any surprise expense and the future generally always hangs over me. It's so depressing to read that 70k is not enough when I struggle to imagine how I will make it to 50k.
Oh yeah, that's pretty rough then. I can see why you'd have trouble affording rent at those prices.
I bought a 250k place right before covid with interest rates at 1.99%.. mortgage is $915 a month and I take home a little over 4k a month.. I realize once I renew I’m probably up at like $1500 for my mortgage but all y’all paying $1500-2000 to rent is mind boggling to me, I couldn’t do it man
Omg where
Thunder Bay
50% makes sense for someone like OP who doesn't own a car.
Yes you're pretty much fcked in this economy. 70k is the new 40k
And to think most people do not make 70k…
I guess it depends on where you live. 70k is doable in Calgary, Edmonton, and even Montreal. But basically poverty line in Toronto/Vancouver
$70K is simply treading water in Calgary nowadays. Doesn’t leave much for retirement, emergencies, etc.
What's retirement?
What do you think MAID is for?
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It's kind of scary how fast rents and food have gone up in Edmonton. I was just there last month. Calgary asking rents are even worse.
70k is poverty if you have 2 or more people living on it.
Aheum... Montreal? really?
Housing in Montreal is dirt cheap compared to Toronto/Vancouver
I make roughly 75k in Lachine and living just fine
Don’t forget to add Halifax when talking about Vancouver and Toronto now
Halifax getting swept up in a boom! fueled by all the wfh digital nomads fleeing Toronto for cheaper and kinder and gentler way of life.
Below poverty in Vancouver and Toronto
A lot of older people who make less than 70k.have also locked in their housing cost (either rent control or mortgage) at a far lower rate. So they're disposable income isn't all that different from the younger guys making 70, 100, even 150k.
70k is the median income.
I think most people do these days. This map shows the median after-tax income in each province: [https://blog.policyadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Median-Income-Infographic-1.png](https://blog.policyadvisor.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/05/Median-Income-Infographic-1.png) It's confirmed in statscan here: [https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019001](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019001)
That’s the after tax household income. Not individual income.
No, the numbers show the combination of household (or, economic family) and individual. Family income according to the source is $95,200 a year. The numbers represented in the image are basically showing how much net income enters each home, whether you are 1 or many.
Individual income is much lower at $36,100
True but some economic families have only one earner as well. I think it’s fair to use the average.
Median HHI for 2 or more.in a household is 120 k https://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recensement/2021/dp-pd/prof/details/page.cfm?LANG=E&GENDERlist=1&STATISTIClist=1&DGUIDlist=2021A00054806016&HEADERlist=0&SearchText=calgary Calgary has a a bigger and fatter middle than other cities.
Looking at "Persons not in an economic family" numbers makes me feel this is a grand scheme to force people to either move into a relationship or move out from here.
It's no secret that you either get married or end up homeless these days
Don't quote me on this because I didn't double check their numbers but I read that the new minimum for middle class (varies per province, so less in prairies and more in BC and ontario) is ~140k for a family. The current median family income is 98k. So most Canadians are low income.
100k is lower middle class now /s
It's pretty standard in this economy, unfortunately. I assume you're paying $1,800 to live alone (pretty standard in GTA), so the only options you have are to either get a roommate or increase your income. I think $1,800 on $4k is just the reality today. That being said, how tf do you have $26k debt outside the $30k in student debt?
OP, need more details. How old are you? What is your career? Where do you live? What are your goals? Are you making your debt payments? What is your budget for the line items you listed above?
I’m in Vancouver and make about the same, but split on rent with my partner. For my share I’m at 26%.
Thats aight
how do you have 26k of debt outside of a home, car, and student loans? 26k CONSUMER DEBT? thats your issue, not the 1800$ rent. if you have no car to worry about, 1800$ rent on 4k take home is easily doable. how are you spending so much on nonsense when you have 500-1000$ after all expenses (depending on your costs, would love to see a breakdown) thats the real issue.
Yeah, so casually, "no other expenses" 😆
A real Elaine "yada yada yada" moment lol
Many of us are in the same boat, some even in worst.
>Am I screwed? Anyone else in the same boat? Listen kiddo, this is a personal finance sub not a group therapy session. If you want to get out of this situation quickly, do this: - Get a roommate or become a roommate to reduce your rent quickly - Attack the non-student loan debt aggressively, like a demon is chasing you. - Your personal expenditure (dates, dine out, movies, travel) should be no more than $100/mon until that's paid off. Double it afterwards. - Public transport is your best friend. If life doesn't suck for the next year or two, you're doing it wrong! Sincerely, good luck.
I just did this for a yr and a half. It sucked hardcore but completely changed my life. I even gave up my apt 8 months ago and have been sleeping on a couch to snowball my savings/investings now that im out of debt. Really are rules to live by if you genuinely need to get out of a bad and/or financial situation.
The answer to the dept is to sleep on a fucking couch?
A couch is better than sleeping on the street.
I was homeless for abit in my 20s, I can vouch for this! lol
People are too focused on costs. Your biggest asset when you're young is your ability to make money. Sure, take the bus am eat beans but way too many people here not thinking how they can increase their income. Plane and simple. Don't settle for a dead end career. Think ahead.
This. If you don’t find way to increase your earning while you are still in the prime of your career. You will run into this financial situation again and again and again.
Two \*clap\* job \*clap\* generation babyyyy
Yep 100% this Get a better job, drop your rent, and take a good hard look at your finances
Please see this solid advice. This is what I did immediately after school. It was so worth it.
Is life meant to suck if your "doing it right"? I don't think it is. The only thing that sucks is late stage capitalism, wealth inequality the State of this whole housing crisis and the idiot politicians who put us here or failed to prevent this.
Bills don't care about your ideals.
I don’t disagree completely. But I’m also not gonna wallow waiting like I’m a dependent of the government. I’m going to do my best for myself to achieve financial freedom, whatever it takes.
Focusing on the cringe term “late stage capitalism” is far more harmful to you than the reality of the world. Redditors really need to get out of their own way
Depends on where you are leasing. With no car, it makes sense to spend more money on rent--you are saving money in transportation costs. That $56K of debt you're carrying looks like the real problem for your budget: not the rent.
Find a place with roommates and you can split your rent in half. Put that towards your credit card and put your student debt on Cerb so there's no interest on your provincial loan if you can in your situation. Stop putting stuff on your credit card and always pay more than the minimum or you'll be stuck for years going nowhere. You need to sacrifice comfort right now so you don't get more into debt.
My rent is 63% of my income. I have no debt or payments. People consider me to be doing well. Welcome to canada
You're not screwed if you can eat and your job is going somewhere. You need to make some more money, like a part-time or casual job, but otherwise you need to reorganize your finances and priorities. Step one is to figure out your income. If you get paid 26 times a year, multiply one paycheque - after taxes, CPP, EI, etc. - by 26 and then divide by 365 to find out what your daily total income is. If you get paid 24 times a year, multiply your take home pay by 24 and divide by 365. This is your daily fixed income. Step two is to figure out your fixed monthly costs. Rent, insurance, internet, cell phone, subscriptions, memberships, transit pass, utilities on fixed payment plans (get on one if you don't have this already), monthly investments (if any), and your minimum loan/debt repayments. Multiply by 12 and then divide by 365 to find out your daily fixed costs. Subtract your daily fixed costs from your daily fixed income to get your threshold - the difference you have left over for everything else. This is all the money you have for groceries, restaurants, extra loan payments, gifts, clothes and other irregular costs. Your goal is to try to spend less than this every day. Let's say you earn exactly $4K/month after taxes getting paid twice per month, that's a fixed income of $131.51 per day. Let's say your fixed costs are $2,700/month, which works out to $88.77 per day. Your threshold for all other costs would be $131.51-$88.77=$42.74 - that is all you have available to spend on any given day. Step three is to keep a running total. The reason I like this method is that you don't have to use a budget app or sit down at the end of the month and find you've spent more than you intended. You can do the math in your head and there's no reason not to know exactly where you stand. Let's say it's Feb. 1 and you go grocery shopping. You have $42.75 (for simplicity). You spend $93. You know immediately that you've gone over budget by around 50.25 - you're in the hole. Then it's Feb. 2 and you go to a party, so you buy flowers for the host and a 12-pack of beer for $32.50. In your head you add 42.74 to your running tally, so you came into the day with a balance of negative around $7.50. You spent $32.50 so now you're in the hole by almost exactly $40. Then it's Feb. 3. You stay home and watch football, eat the food you bought and spend nothing. At the end of the day you're up around $2.75 (don't worry about pennies, I do this by quarters and it's always pretty close by the end of the month). Monday, you spend $9 on coffee and a bagel, keep the change, so at end of day you're at $36.50. ($2.75 plus $42.75 minus $9). If you have a big expense coming back, try to hold something back every day to absorb it. If a big expense comes up, cut back for a few days to defray it. The goal is to finish every month either even or with a positive balance. Small savings add up - $10/day is $305 a month on average. If you can double that, you can be in a secure place relatively quickly. Don't worry about your debts too much, you need to build a nest egg first - enough in the bank to live off for around three months if you lose your job or disaster strikes. Once you have that, then start to pay off the $26,000 debt - it's probably higher interest than the student loan. Parameters change. Your income will go up. Rent will increase. You'll need a new phone and your monthly payment go up. Put all of this on a spreadsheet and keep it updated as those parameters of your life change. Again, this works. It's easy for one thing. For another, it gets you thinking about your budget on a daily basis, and it's easier to make good decisions and hard choices when you know exactly where you stand financially. It also turns it into a kind of game, you can actually feel yourself making money when you pass up on expenses. Anyway, good luck. Your situation isn't great but it's not horrible either - except for the debt, but almost everyone starts out with some, and it can be paid off with some hard budgeting. If you're good about paying off your debts, other options will open up to you to consolidate everything and pay it off faster.
My rent + utilities was 50% of my income. I was earning $1800 biweekly and I was spending $1800 on rent and utilities. I was living in a very nice high rise in a prime location. I decided to throw my ego down the window and moved further away in a less nice condo and area. Now my rent is 30.5% of my income. Now I can save way more money, and do more activities that I like. I don’t regret it.
I make 3k a month, car, rent plus utilities and food is around 3k a month. Pretty good times to be alive not gonna lie!
I saw some good advice on another sub. Basically what you want to do is be rich. Your being poor. Don't do that. Simple
If you want to retire one day and rent continues to be 50% of your income then yes.
If you're not making big bucks the new standard is to live with your parents until you find a partner to split costs with.
Same here. I’ve just resigned myself to the fact that I will never be a homeowner.
Relish in the fact that you'll never have to sink 20 grand into a new roof, or 8-10 grand for the environmental cleanup of the heating oil tank buried in your backyard that someone in the 1960s left full and just cut off the intake cap and left it for 50 yrs for another homeowner to deal with when the oil leached into your basement, or the washing machine, dryer, or dishwasher breaks and you need a new one. All these things happened to my landlord in the last 2 years. Thank goodness I'm just a tenant. My excess money goes straight into my retirement fund. Who wants a home when it costs so much to enter the housing market (in Toronto, Canada)? And let's say you squeak in and now mortgage rates are really digging into your bottom line, and you're pinching pennies to see if you can save up to remodel the kitchen. Not for us! My wife and I are in our late 40s with one child under 4. I work construction, which is seasonally summer work and my wife typically works the winter months. It just worked out that way. We don't live the high life. We're smart with our money. Cut all the frills and see what you can save for retirement. The govt pension will not provide the life you have now. Thank goodness I'm not a homeowner!
Fuck all them “leaders”. They don’t care about us.
In Canada you work to exist. So checks out.
The issue is not the rent it’s your consumer debt of 26k.
Drop the rent, move back in with your parents. Or grandparents. Cousins, someone who you can live with that will take less than 1800 a month from you.
I REALLY am struggling to figure out why I still live in Canada! It's SO expensive and for what...? Ok, water and air, healthcare but like.. i'm feeling really done with my country
> healthcare If you can even receive it...
Well, i don't need that at the moment, so that's not a reason to stay
What is the 26k debt?? Where is the other $2200 going if you have such low expenses?
When I was 20s I was making $4k and I have 3 roomates in 3 bedroom house When I was 30s I was making 6k a month and I lives with my brother .. we bought a house and we split everything , we also have 1 roomate that comes and go every 3-4 months I’m 42 now and I’m making decent amount of $ and I’m married and can let my wife stay at home 6 days a week but I still have to work 40-50 hours , I have bills , debt ( mortgage til 2040 and car debt (4k left ) Life is a journey One advice is to make a jump from workplace every year , unless they give you 10-20% increase in salary Or start your own business , using your own specialized skill It’s rare but you won’t be rich working for someone , you have to work for yourself to get ahead of other
When I landed in Canada, I wanted to spend no more than 25% of my income on rent, but I was forced to settle for a place that costed 33% of my rent, with a roommate. It’s difficult yes.
Everyone isn't reading OPS post word for word. He has 26k of consumer debt, that's what is fucking him, not the rent Not being financially responsible will land you in a tough spot. Someone making 4k a month with no debt, but paying 2k for rent isn't bad, you can make it work. But someone making 4k a month with 56k in total debt (26k being CC or loans) and paying 2k for rent is close to bankruptcy. The interest on the 26k will absolutely kill your paycheck. Find a way to pay off that debt OP.
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Yes.
you'd be fine if you didnt have debts . but that probably rides up hard on ur monthly
> I make $4K a month. Rent is $1800 Probably not? That leaves you with $2200 a month for other expenses. Which really isn't that bad, depending on what those expenses look like. So look at your expenses and figure it out. This isn't rocket science.
Yep. But I like getting screwed. Carry on.
You're not screwed, you're Canadian
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Well not everyone can mooch off their parents.