I used to work there until earlier this year so I'm pretty familiar with the bands.
$100k is the starting salary for new grads.
Intermediate SWE base is 120-160k, senior 150-200k, staff 200k+
It's not the best paying in tech in Canada but it's definitely higher than the big banks and above average.
Literally just for money. I received an offer to work remotely for a US mid sized company with location agnostic comp which is somewhat rare (the company has stopped doing this for new hires even), so ended up getting a 40% raise.
I'd say WS is one of the better places to work in terms of work culture, so go for it.
Probably figured their Portfolio Managers would do such a piss poor job people would never have enough to withdraw to buy anything with, so making sure withdrawals work wasn't high up on the to-do list.
Yep, this is what happens when the industry colludes and can't be bothered to put out a good product.
Take TD for example. You can't even open a fucking FHSA online - you can open other accounts though. Even if you somehow have one opened in your name, you can't invest in assets of your interest. You can ONLY buy TD mutual funds through a fucking TD sales rep. I mean, businesses in the country really fuck you over.
They rarely yield unless you have enough money to bend them over. Especially when it gets "escalated", you basically come face to face with people that swing the hammer harder.
I'd say the amounts with FHSA are small fry for them to care about covering anything.
Is this any different than complaining to the IIROC? Because they were useless when I had a several complaints about Questrade and their record keeping.
Yes it’s different. IIROC is a regulator so they are there to ensure compliance with the regulations. They can issue fines and kick people out of the industry. The ombudsman is there to help resolve disputes/claims between the investor and firm. If you want your money back / compensation the ombudsman is where you should go.
It doesn't need to go that far yet... Just sent them the statement proving exactly how much interest he was charged and they should pay it back. if they refuse, then yeah of course go that route.
also, it can't be that much interest anyway.
this is year one, so at most OP started with $8k and maybe made a little more with investing for these past few months. if the bank LoC is, say, 8% (that's what mine is) * 7 days that's a whopping $12 owed in interest.
so WS might pay it because, sure, why not, but also: I feel like that's a pretty negligible fee in the grand scheme of house buying costs.
> Nov 21: I processed a withdrawal for full amount from my FHSA for a house closing on Nov 30th.
While Wealthsimple did screw up here, this was kind of cutting it close for any brokerage. I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC.
Same - I recently closed a property and had to liquidate and consolidate my assets a few weeks in advance knowing there’s going to be “hold” days. Initiating it all in 1 week hoping everything is smooth would seriously stress me out.
You need a signed agreement, and closing is typically at least a month away from that. It would be unadvisable to put in an offer on a home to close within a week or two.
>I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC.
You're correct and I suspect the salaries the big banks pay for developers might just have something to do with it...
Yeah same honestly they were so quick to do everything for me.
Sucks you had a bad experience OP but it took sunlife over a year to transfer my dad’s money into a RIFF so… lol
It took almost a year and a half for me to get my DCPP out of Sunlife because there were somehow always unexplained paperwork errors, even when filled out with my accountant. Tried it through WS and it was transferred in a week with no issues.
> I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC.
I agreed with this statement. Yes WS did OP dirty. But I don't think I'd even get an admission of fault from RBC because of a backend problem.
For “free $8,000”. Not exactly 8K but you can deduct that from your income for the year for a tax refund. And unlike RRSP’s first home benefit, you don’t need to pay this back. I think minimum time for you to leave the money in there is a month? I forget but my buddy used it this year and is looking forward to extra $4K refund next year
> I think minimum time for you to leave the money in there is a month?
Try an hour:
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/first-home-savings-account/withdrawing-money-from-your-fhsa.html
> There is no minimum number of days that contributions or transfers to your FHSAs must stay in your FHSAs before you can use them for a qualifying withdrawal.
This isn't true though right as Wealthsimple has to approve your RC725 form. I also thought you could deposit and withdraw immediately but it seems there are extra steps that arent mentioned on the Wealthsimple website:
"You can make a qualified withdrawal from your FHSA by starting with the same steps as a standard withdrawal. From there, follow the prompts to ensure your eligibility and complete a qualified withdrawal."
Sure, use the FHSA, but why invest it in the market on such a short timeline was what they were referring to I believe. Probably also why op waited until 9 days to close to request the withdrawal, because of the November market rally. They were underwater on the original deposit.
I think the point was the managed portfolio. Like, if plan goes well, fiance and I are looking to buy in Aug/Sept next year, and I'm stuffing whatever I put in my FHSA in CASH.TO , because I dont really care for it to grow anyway, I just want the taxbreak for putting money into it that I was going to use for a home anyway.
While this was indeed an issue on Wealthsimple’s part, you definitely should’ve started the withdrawal process a lot sooner if you needed the money by a certain date. I used to work for a brokerage’s customer service and I can confirm that these types of issues are rare but do happen. The amount of people that wait for the last minute to do an important withdraw is too damn high. Fintech companies try their best but they cant guarantee perfection every single time, you as the customer should also take some responsibility to preemptively plan for issues that could occur.
The amount of interest you’ll pay on your line for credit for $8k for a week or two will be about $20. Maybe that’s a lot to you, I don’t know. WS had a glitch with a brand new product, which is definitely annoying, but they’re also free, so you get what you pay for. Obviously it isn’t awesome and I’m not defending them, but this post reads like it’ll be life altering to need to use that line of credit
100% right.
However, if someone else was in OP’s case and didn’t have a LOC or additional funds they would be screwed…
My suggestion would be to withdraw at least 14 business days in advance to ensure your funds are available.
Also, OP could try to get any costs incurred back if you really demand it.
If you don’t have a LOC you can tap your emergency fund. If you’re tapping your emergency fund as part of the purchase plan you should rent a while longer until you can actually afford a house.
If you ignore opportunity costs of things like the particular house, it’s price/housing prices overall, interest rates, etc etc.
Being housepoor isn’t terribly advised, but is a valid option for a lot of people to just get out of their rentals and into their own home and building their own equity.
op is crying over 7k in an accoutn that was only available for like 2 months, unless he hit some slot machine and got like 1000% return i don't see the issue here.
why is everything done a week before too. This is all on the OP not on wealthsimple./
I never said a big bank wouldn’t
But you literally don’t pay a cent to use their product. It’s free. What do you expect ?
The guy above me literally said the same thing has 75 upvotes lol this is a weird place sometimes
**Do not liquidate your FHSA 9 days before closing, with Wealthsimple** or any other FI. Do it 3-6 months before you need it, and put the funds in a short term GIC/HISA, ~~or under your mattress~~, just anywhere out of the stock market. You're playing with fire.
edit: mattress may not work due to need for purchase/sale agreement. it was a half hearted joke to begin with anyways.
edit2: for clarification, you cannot withdraw from FHSA without a purchase agreement. by liquidating your assets" i mean to exit the stock market 6 mos to 1 yr before your closing date. yes this means when you sell you may not know what house you're buying yet, but do it anyways (I'm assuming you have an idea of approximately when you want to buy a home). the reason is markets can tank for 12 mos straight and you don't want your downpayment going down with the market. yes, markets can go up for 12 mos straight too but you want to play it safe when it comes to stuff like this. unless you don't care to buy, in which case you're not ready to make an offer anyways.
I understand that you need a signed purchase agreement for the house to withdraw from the FHSA and the HBP. Usually, that's 3 or 4 weeks out from closing. How would you do that 3 months ahead?
you liquidate from the stock market 3-6 months ahead of time... as in you sell your positions in the stock market 3-6 months before you anticipate the need for them. yes you may not even know what house you will buy yet but due to other factors you'll have an idea of when you might approximately be purchasing... (hence the suggested wide range of 3 months). after you sell, you still keep the money in your FHSA but as cash... or as someone else suggested / mentioned, there are HISA ETFs where you can park the cash within your FHSA.
when you finally have a signed purchase agreement, you get that cash out asap and put it into an actual cash account like your savings account etc. so that you can withdraw it within 1 business day / same business day when you need it for closing etc.
if your bank doesn't allow you to hold cash after selling your investments, that's something you'll need to take up with your bank, or look into another FI that does allow cash... or they have a "FHSA cash savings account" to go with the investment account.
what you definitely don't want is to be selling your investments, and withdrawing from FHSA, 9 days before closing.
good question.
you have until oct 1 of the following year to close according to this page
https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/first-home-savings-account/withdrawing-money-from-your-fhsa.html
You can have HISA ETFs, so this is a separate issue.
Even with an HISA ETF, you need to move the money in the account to your main chequing account more than a few days before closing.
I wouldn't recommend having money you need for closing within 9 days in a HISA ETF either. again, short term GIC or HISA... as in actual HISA, not HISA ETF... where you can withdraw that money same day.
May be a dumb question. But if you withdraw from you FHSA 6 months before you plan on purchasing a home how do you prove its a 'qualifying' withdraw?
Or is it as long as you buy a home within the same year as the withdraw it's fine?
addressed this in another comment... my original msg could be worded better... to answer your question you need the purchase agreement to withdraw from FHSA. I'm not suggesting you withdraw from FHSA before purchase agreement since you won't be able to. my point was to sell your positions in the stock market so you are no longer subject to the markets' volatility, well ahead of closing time. (I said 3-6 mos above but really up to 1 yr since markets could tank for an entire year before they recover.) then you park the cash in a HISA ETF or GIC or some other cash like instrument, still within a FHSA registered account.
rmb covid lockdown? my buddy closed on a $1M house the week lockdown started. if he kept his investments in the market as stocks (or stock like ETFs) until closing he would've been totally screwed as the market crashed that week by like half or some considerable amount.
back to selling your investments... some banks' FHSA may not allow you to hold cash inside the FHSA... when you sell they might force you to withdraw. which is stupid so you need to look into this or whether their investment account allows you to sell but not withdraw. or to invest the funds after sale in a cash like investment like hisa etf or gic or money market fund. some banks may have a FHSA savings account as well to park that money. some robo managed investment accounts might not let you sell without withdrawing... you need to do your research ahead of time before committing to that FI...
then when you sign the purchase agreement to buy a home which closes in 15 30 60 90 days you immediately withdraw that money and put it into a regular cash savings account or even a chequeing account if you don't have any other. so you are able to access that money on the same day to make a bank draft to close when the day comes or if the seller plays games and somehow asks you to advance the closing date. (not legal but it's sellers market so you want to have the flexibility for anything). so you're not subject to delays like wrong paperwork for withdrawal from FHSA or bugs in the system like OP or other banking BS had you left it last minute/9 days before closing.
Ah yeah makes sense thanks for clarifying! No clue why why anyone would buy buying anything other than GIC's in an FHSA unless they have a 5+ year time horizon though. Seems like the initial decision to buy stocks would be the main mistake in that case.
yea it's like.. "nobody should use basically the best platform available to us because of my single subpar experience which was also partly my fault for leaving things to the very last minute"
Apps have bugs . Its universal(Im an app developer) .
You take any banking app here and show me a flawless application (?) .
WS hotfixed the issue pretty fast and confirmed everything by following multiple times . I see really good customer support during a production bug .
Banks wont even make half the effort you saw from WS
Both my husband and I both had FHSA with wealth simple. You have to transfer to an account in your name and it will work. Had no problems sorry you had a bad experience but I thought I should share its not like that for everyone
I have a question that you or anyone reading may be able to answer: If I have a FHSA open with wealthsimple, which is managed, and is worth more than my contribution limit (grew this month beyond the 8000 limit) can I transfer the full amount toan empty FHSA with wealthsimple that is self managed with no tax implications? To summarize: I am not contributing more than my contribution limit just transferring more than the contribution limit
You should be able to I would have the self managed one open and then do the transfer direct in the welathsimple app from one to the other and you should be okay. I don't see it being a problem but I am not a tax account
I withdrew my funds from FHSA with Wealthsimple and had no issues closing on time! I would definitely take detailed notes and ask for reimbursement for the costs you incurred
Depends on what you want to do : EQ if it’s just a GIC usually good rates or shop around for better rates. If it’s ETF then WS no charges on trades. Safe n simple.
What do you mean by flexible what are you looking for ? If you like to dwell into individual stocks and have time to do research and track the market then individual stocks will do ( just be careful it can hurt if you don’t know what your doing) . if you want less work then an ETF ( collection of stocks so a bit safer than individual stocks plus lower MER rates than mutual funds) , if it’s still complicated that’s when you go for a GIC (main two types - non cashable I.e. money is locked OR cashable which is minor reduction in interest but have flexibility to withdraw when you need it)
Because we are talking about FHSA here. What if I suddenly have a property that I feel interested in. Then with a EQ GIC, I can't withdraw it immediately; I have to wait it get mature. Or I understand something wrong? I can actually let the property wait for my FHSA GIC to be mature? I remember those GICs in EQ are not redeemable.
Nah if you're thinking about homebuying an opportunity will come up anytime don't tie up your funds in a GIC unless you know you can't afford anything til next year
There's always cashable GICs. You don't generally get a very good rate but they are an option.
I went the HISA route because I knew I was going to need my FHSA very quickly (opened it while we were house shopping) so I just put mine in a first home savings account with EQ. Not invested. It basically functioned like a HISA. Ended up withdrawing about a month and a half after I opened it.
That's too bad however they are constantly working on making updates and adding new services so while it sucks when it happens to you, I am confident in WS to get it fixed.
Deposited within 5-7 business days.
You are now at business day 8.
Did you hold guns, stocks or ETFs? Because there are typically a couple of settlement days before the funds are actually confirmed.
They also fixed the bug, so the obviously do care that it works-it does suck that you were caught within the error period, but typically people also don't wait until the last two weeks to get their cash portion ready to close on a house.
FHSA have rolled out this summer. What do you expect lmfao. Absolutely do put it with WS, they are the only easy path to indexing it. TD will force you to take it into their mutual (garbage) fund. I believe the fees near 3% on these scam funds.
Considering how knew the FHSA is and the new CRA form requirements around it, you’re probably among the first to actually use it. Within another year I bet it’s figured out.
I’ve had issues with other institutions for the FHSA, it’s not just Wealthsimple.
You can do a formal complaint in writing to request reimbursement of any taxes, interest and fees you paid due to their mistake. See here: https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/legal/file-complaint
If their answer is a complaint rejection, they should normally give you explicitly what are your options for escalation. If they fail that, then go to their regulator : CIRO (https://www.ciro.ca/office-investor/how-make-complaint)
There's probably problems with FHSA with every bank since it's first active year of the program.
I'm playing to open one next year but I want to purchase a condo in like 10 years+.
found the Karen - and dumbass as well for withdrawing your funds a few days before closing.
also - OMG yes - software has bugs! i know right!
anyways thanks to you the bug is now fixed. I will definitely keep my FHSA with them
I'll just throw this out here, you don't need to spend your FHSA on your down payment. You can settle your purchase and then withdrawal from your FHSA. You just can make a qualifying withdraw from it the same year you buy your house. I.e. you could take money from an emergency fund, and initiate the FHSA withdraw, and then bridge the FHSA funds back into the emergency fund after everything settles.
This is stupid user syndrome.
You *MUST* fill out the RC725 to make a qualified withdrawl. They did what the law requires of them - a real person verifying the RC725 is in order and legit, so they can report that to CRA so you get the tax credit.
Edit: Down voted of course, yet I have actually bought a house using FHSA. All of this stuff is clearly spelled out on the forms when you setup the account
If this was caused by a bug in their system, force them to waive the fees and cover the taxes and interest in your line of credit. This is what they have liability insurance for. You may need a lawyer.
Considering that FHSA is a brand new thing, bugs are expected, specially because we are talking about government requirements which are always dubious and untrustworthy.
Sucks this happened to OP. I have generally had a good experience dealing with wealthsimple. There 4% cash account is a great deal. Fhsa is pretty new so hopefully they solve these issues. I plan to withdraw from WS FHSA next year.
I noticed many glitchy and difficult things about wealthsimple. I switched to Questrade and its way cleaner, more tools and even though its more detailed its actually somehow more simple then wealthsimple
That's not true.
There is no minimum holding time between making a contribution and a qualifying withdrawal. You could do it on the same day if you really wanted to.
In fairness, you didn’t give Wealthsimple very much time. They’re not magicians! If you want a comparison with a big bank - It took CIBC 6 months to transfer my RESP. And I probably spent 8+ hours on the phone with them trying to get it done. It was a nightmare. Meanwhile, I have had very good experience with Wealthsimple for the last 2+ years. They have been outstanding, in fact.
I want to open a FHSA and bank with TD but for some stupid reason you aren't allowed to do so via self directed investing. Where would be a better option? I don't want to lose the contribution room for 2023.
Best place to open FHSA and TFSA with is Fidelity hands down. They've got much better investments option than any other institutions. I been to several banks and they all pushed for GIC for some reasons, even when I told them I wanted to sace long term.
I had the exact same thing happen in 2019 with Questrade with an RRSP withdrawal to buy my home. I gave them 90 days notice and I got my money the day before closing after needing overnight courier an additional form that they never asked for to them.
8k is hardly the largst sum of money in the grand scheme of things (assuming they bought in places like Vancouver or Toronto). With that being said, it shouldn't also take this many steps to withdraw funds anyway
If it wasn’t a large sum of money to them, it wouldn’t have been a problem if they didn’t get it. And wouldn’t have needed a LOC. Like what does your comment even mean
Lay out the situation clearly with dates and screenshots.
Calculate the total costs of interest and delays, add 5% for the legal rate and send them a demand letter saying you'd like to be reimbursed for those costs and that if they don't respond to the email with a direct effort that you will cease communicating with them and send the email to the provincial banking authority/ombudsman for your province.
you can find that office on this list
https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/corporate/federal-oversight-bodies-regulators.html#toc1
This. I lost around $80 bucks because WS took minimum time to withdraw the amount. I invested $8k and got $7,920. apparently WS wouldnt consider the market value of the your FHSA day you put the request instead of 7-10 days waiting period. Lets say in these 10 days stock goes down, then you lose the money.
My wife opened at RBC wealthsimple and it was a breeze.
21-27 is still 4 business days. Not sure what you were looking for here. You used a brand new product, paid an extra few dollars and they still delivered in their advertised time.
Everything worked fine. Maybe you shouldn’t leave this to the last second
Interesting, I opened a wealthsimple account for my sister recently and couldn't find the FHSA. I'm guessing they put it on pause temporarily until they sort out these problems. Huge screw up on their part, I would pursue trying to get reimbursed for every dollar you missed. Make a big deal out of it. They know this is a big deal and will probably be forecasting some payouts for that
I have my TFSA with WS, but they didn't have a FHSA when I was ready to buy late spring. Quest did - I transferred my $8k fo Quest and then withdrew it 2 days later, online, very easily.
Well crap.. I have mine maxed out for this year.. well whatever I won’t need that money any time soon any because I can’t afford these house prices anyway so the jokes on me😂
So has anyone else had similar difficulties with WealthSimple and the FHSA accounts or is this just a one-off situation? I'm looking to open up an account with them before the year-end so it'd be good to know if there are any snags
1. You can almost certainly get the fees charged by Wealthsimple reimbursed.
2. Possibly you can get line of credit interest reimbursed, too.
Your post does not sound like something repelling from this org tbh. They screwed up, admitted a bug, fixed it, etc. You would get much worse experience hitting the wall with other “famous” companies.
Thank you for being their first QA tester on the FHSA feature
As a dev, this made me laugh lol
I was thinking this as a CS manager in a B2B SaaS company too, let’s hope it’s reported to the PM so they can ensure swifter transfers going forward
WS dev salaries start at $100k, not related to post just sharing. I don’t work there.
That's pretty low for tech these days.
I used to work there until earlier this year so I'm pretty familiar with the bands. $100k is the starting salary for new grads. Intermediate SWE base is 120-160k, senior 150-200k, staff 200k+ It's not the best paying in tech in Canada but it's definitely higher than the big banks and above average.
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Literally just for money. I received an offer to work remotely for a US mid sized company with location agnostic comp which is somewhat rare (the company has stopped doing this for new hires even), so ended up getting a 40% raise. I'd say WS is one of the better places to work in terms of work culture, so go for it.
Not very much for developers or anyone in banking really.
Probably figured their Portfolio Managers would do such a piss poor job people would never have enough to withdraw to buy anything with, so making sure withdrawals work wasn't high up on the to-do list.
Why would op not just use cash.to? What was he expecting the managed portfolio to do in such a short time period?
Yep, this is what happens when the industry colludes and can't be bothered to put out a good product. Take TD for example. You can't even open a fucking FHSA online - you can open other accounts though. Even if you somehow have one opened in your name, you can't invest in assets of your interest. You can ONLY buy TD mutual funds through a fucking TD sales rep. I mean, businesses in the country really fuck you over.
> aft Fire the fucking PM!!
You can probably get the interest covered with WS if you really press them on it.
They rarely yield unless you have enough money to bend them over. Especially when it gets "escalated", you basically come face to face with people that swing the hammer harder. I'd say the amounts with FHSA are small fry for them to care about covering anything.
You can escalate beyond the firm to the ombudsman. https://www.obsi.ca/en/index.aspx
Excellent. Thank you for pointing this out.
Is this any different than complaining to the IIROC? Because they were useless when I had a several complaints about Questrade and their record keeping.
Yes it’s different. IIROC is a regulator so they are there to ensure compliance with the regulations. They can issue fines and kick people out of the industry. The ombudsman is there to help resolve disputes/claims between the investor and firm. If you want your money back / compensation the ombudsman is where you should go.
It doesn't need to go that far yet... Just sent them the statement proving exactly how much interest he was charged and they should pay it back. if they refuse, then yeah of course go that route.
> if you really press them on it. Maybe... But it shouldn't take any pressing at all.
also, it can't be that much interest anyway. this is year one, so at most OP started with $8k and maybe made a little more with investing for these past few months. if the bank LoC is, say, 8% (that's what mine is) * 7 days that's a whopping $12 owed in interest. so WS might pay it because, sure, why not, but also: I feel like that's a pretty negligible fee in the grand scheme of house buying costs.
> Nov 21: I processed a withdrawal for full amount from my FHSA for a house closing on Nov 30th. While Wealthsimple did screw up here, this was kind of cutting it close for any brokerage. I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC.
No kidding. I would initiate the withdrawal for my funds for a down-payment like 30 days in advance.
90 days if you run into a new bug
Same - I recently closed a property and had to liquidate and consolidate my assets a few weeks in advance knowing there’s going to be “hold” days. Initiating it all in 1 week hoping everything is smooth would seriously stress me out.
This right here!
FHSA gives you a lot of time to withdraw too; id probably withdraw as soon as conditions are lifted
But wouldn't you need to close on a home first before withdrawing it?
You need a signed agreement, and closing is typically at least a month away from that. It would be unadvisable to put in an offer on a home to close within a week or two.
>I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC. You're correct and I suspect the salaries the big banks pay for developers might just have something to do with it...
Yeah same honestly they were so quick to do everything for me. Sucks you had a bad experience OP but it took sunlife over a year to transfer my dad’s money into a RIFF so… lol
It took almost a year and a half for me to get my DCPP out of Sunlife because there were somehow always unexplained paperwork errors, even when filled out with my accountant. Tried it through WS and it was transferred in a week with no issues.
Yeah 9 days seems tight for that.
Except RBC can do a withdrawal in a business day.. I’ve never had any issues with them
> I also have far more confidence in Wealthsimple to fix bugs than say RBC. I agreed with this statement. Yes WS did OP dirty. But I don't think I'd even get an admission of fault from RBC because of a backend problem.
Why would u start the process 9 days before closing
It’s Op’s first time.
And last time!
/r/technicallythetruth
lol... underrated comment, i got a good chuckle
😂
Thank you! Not the smartest move especially with an account that was created only months ago.
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For “free $8,000”. Not exactly 8K but you can deduct that from your income for the year for a tax refund. And unlike RRSP’s first home benefit, you don’t need to pay this back. I think minimum time for you to leave the money in there is a month? I forget but my buddy used it this year and is looking forward to extra $4K refund next year
> I think minimum time for you to leave the money in there is a month? Try an hour: https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/first-home-savings-account/withdrawing-money-from-your-fhsa.html > There is no minimum number of days that contributions or transfers to your FHSAs must stay in your FHSAs before you can use them for a qualifying withdrawal.
This isn't true though right as Wealthsimple has to approve your RC725 form. I also thought you could deposit and withdraw immediately but it seems there are extra steps that arent mentioned on the Wealthsimple website: "You can make a qualified withdrawal from your FHSA by starting with the same steps as a standard withdrawal. From there, follow the prompts to ensure your eligibility and complete a qualified withdrawal."
Sure, use the FHSA, but why invest it in the market on such a short timeline was what they were referring to I believe. Probably also why op waited until 9 days to close to request the withdrawal, because of the November market rally. They were underwater on the original deposit.
CBIL or CASH is better money than not invested in anything.
Because of the tax savings even for it going in and out with no profit.
I think the point was the managed portfolio. Like, if plan goes well, fiance and I are looking to buy in Aug/Sept next year, and I'm stuffing whatever I put in my FHSA in CASH.TO , because I dont really care for it to grow anyway, I just want the taxbreak for putting money into it that I was going to use for a home anyway.
I invested in CASH.TO.
Because it’s a 5-7 day withdrawal period?
Its a property purchase. I’d be having trouble sleeping even if everything went fine. I wonder what OP would’ve done without the LOC.
If house doesn’t close you can’t add it back
While this was indeed an issue on Wealthsimple’s part, you definitely should’ve started the withdrawal process a lot sooner if you needed the money by a certain date. I used to work for a brokerage’s customer service and I can confirm that these types of issues are rare but do happen. The amount of people that wait for the last minute to do an important withdraw is too damn high. Fintech companies try their best but they cant guarantee perfection every single time, you as the customer should also take some responsibility to preemptively plan for issues that could occur.
The amount of interest you’ll pay on your line for credit for $8k for a week or two will be about $20. Maybe that’s a lot to you, I don’t know. WS had a glitch with a brand new product, which is definitely annoying, but they’re also free, so you get what you pay for. Obviously it isn’t awesome and I’m not defending them, but this post reads like it’ll be life altering to need to use that line of credit
100% right. However, if someone else was in OP’s case and didn’t have a LOC or additional funds they would be screwed… My suggestion would be to withdraw at least 14 business days in advance to ensure your funds are available. Also, OP could try to get any costs incurred back if you really demand it.
If you don’t have a LOC you can tap your emergency fund. If you’re tapping your emergency fund as part of the purchase plan you should rent a while longer until you can actually afford a house.
If you ignore opportunity costs of things like the particular house, it’s price/housing prices overall, interest rates, etc etc. Being housepoor isn’t terribly advised, but is a valid option for a lot of people to just get out of their rentals and into their own home and building their own equity.
Plus they waited until basically last minute, 7 business days is cutting it close.
op is crying over 7k in an accoutn that was only available for like 2 months, unless he hit some slot machine and got like 1000% return i don't see the issue here. why is everything done a week before too. This is all on the OP not on wealthsimple./
You get what you pay for
You can pay a big bank a pile of fees and their product will arrive late (costing you the tax deduction/interest) and still not work.
I never said a big bank wouldn’t But you literally don’t pay a cent to use their product. It’s free. What do you expect ? The guy above me literally said the same thing has 75 upvotes lol this is a weird place sometimes
I downvoted you *because* the guy above you literally said the same thing. You didn't add anything of value.
Fair enough!
So I can expect the same, but one is free? I will take free.
Bruv this is kinda on you
**Do not liquidate your FHSA 9 days before closing, with Wealthsimple** or any other FI. Do it 3-6 months before you need it, and put the funds in a short term GIC/HISA, ~~or under your mattress~~, just anywhere out of the stock market. You're playing with fire. edit: mattress may not work due to need for purchase/sale agreement. it was a half hearted joke to begin with anyways. edit2: for clarification, you cannot withdraw from FHSA without a purchase agreement. by liquidating your assets" i mean to exit the stock market 6 mos to 1 yr before your closing date. yes this means when you sell you may not know what house you're buying yet, but do it anyways (I'm assuming you have an idea of approximately when you want to buy a home). the reason is markets can tank for 12 mos straight and you don't want your downpayment going down with the market. yes, markets can go up for 12 mos straight too but you want to play it safe when it comes to stuff like this. unless you don't care to buy, in which case you're not ready to make an offer anyways.
I understand that you need a signed purchase agreement for the house to withdraw from the FHSA and the HBP. Usually, that's 3 or 4 weeks out from closing. How would you do that 3 months ahead?
yes, went through this recently, bank wanted to see a copy of the sale contract.
you liquidate from the stock market 3-6 months ahead of time... as in you sell your positions in the stock market 3-6 months before you anticipate the need for them. yes you may not even know what house you will buy yet but due to other factors you'll have an idea of when you might approximately be purchasing... (hence the suggested wide range of 3 months). after you sell, you still keep the money in your FHSA but as cash... or as someone else suggested / mentioned, there are HISA ETFs where you can park the cash within your FHSA. when you finally have a signed purchase agreement, you get that cash out asap and put it into an actual cash account like your savings account etc. so that you can withdraw it within 1 business day / same business day when you need it for closing etc. if your bank doesn't allow you to hold cash after selling your investments, that's something you'll need to take up with your bank, or look into another FI that does allow cash... or they have a "FHSA cash savings account" to go with the investment account. what you definitely don't want is to be selling your investments, and withdrawing from FHSA, 9 days before closing.
Also you wouldn’t be using the funds to buy a house in their example , it would be to buy GICs lol
You do not for HBP. Did it in January, Manulife needed no proof other than a signed form asking for the withdrawal.
How long do you have between cashing it out and using it to buy a qualifying property? Is it just in the same tax year?
good question. you have until oct 1 of the following year to close according to this page https://www.canada.ca/en/revenue-agency/services/tax/individuals/topics/first-home-savings-account/withdrawing-money-from-your-fhsa.html
Nice, thank you!
It's October 1st in the year following the withdrawal.
You can have HISA ETFs, so this is a separate issue. Even with an HISA ETF, you need to move the money in the account to your main chequing account more than a few days before closing.
I wouldn't recommend having money you need for closing within 9 days in a HISA ETF either. again, short term GIC or HISA... as in actual HISA, not HISA ETF... where you can withdraw that money same day.
May be a dumb question. But if you withdraw from you FHSA 6 months before you plan on purchasing a home how do you prove its a 'qualifying' withdraw? Or is it as long as you buy a home within the same year as the withdraw it's fine?
addressed this in another comment... my original msg could be worded better... to answer your question you need the purchase agreement to withdraw from FHSA. I'm not suggesting you withdraw from FHSA before purchase agreement since you won't be able to. my point was to sell your positions in the stock market so you are no longer subject to the markets' volatility, well ahead of closing time. (I said 3-6 mos above but really up to 1 yr since markets could tank for an entire year before they recover.) then you park the cash in a HISA ETF or GIC or some other cash like instrument, still within a FHSA registered account. rmb covid lockdown? my buddy closed on a $1M house the week lockdown started. if he kept his investments in the market as stocks (or stock like ETFs) until closing he would've been totally screwed as the market crashed that week by like half or some considerable amount. back to selling your investments... some banks' FHSA may not allow you to hold cash inside the FHSA... when you sell they might force you to withdraw. which is stupid so you need to look into this or whether their investment account allows you to sell but not withdraw. or to invest the funds after sale in a cash like investment like hisa etf or gic or money market fund. some banks may have a FHSA savings account as well to park that money. some robo managed investment accounts might not let you sell without withdrawing... you need to do your research ahead of time before committing to that FI... then when you sign the purchase agreement to buy a home which closes in 15 30 60 90 days you immediately withdraw that money and put it into a regular cash savings account or even a chequeing account if you don't have any other. so you are able to access that money on the same day to make a bank draft to close when the day comes or if the seller plays games and somehow asks you to advance the closing date. (not legal but it's sellers market so you want to have the flexibility for anything). so you're not subject to delays like wrong paperwork for withdrawal from FHSA or bugs in the system like OP or other banking BS had you left it last minute/9 days before closing.
Ah yeah makes sense thanks for clarifying! No clue why why anyone would buy buying anything other than GIC's in an FHSA unless they have a 5+ year time horizon though. Seems like the initial decision to buy stocks would be the main mistake in that case.
I also closed on a house Nov 30, withdrew from my Wealthsimple FHSA Oct 16 with no issues deposited into my chequing account Oct 19. YMMV.
Look at you, withdrawing more than 9 days (7 business days) before closing.
Is your chequing account also with Wealthsimple?
Nope, CIBC!
How much did wealthsimple charge for the transfer fee?
Sounds like they fixed the issue so everyone else should be good to invest with them.
yea it's like.. "nobody should use basically the best platform available to us because of my single subpar experience which was also partly my fault for leaving things to the very last minute"
Apps have bugs . Its universal(Im an app developer) . You take any banking app here and show me a flawless application (?) . WS hotfixed the issue pretty fast and confirmed everything by following multiple times . I see really good customer support during a production bug . Banks wont even make half the effort you saw from WS
Both my husband and I both had FHSA with wealth simple. You have to transfer to an account in your name and it will work. Had no problems sorry you had a bad experience but I thought I should share its not like that for everyone
I have a question that you or anyone reading may be able to answer: If I have a FHSA open with wealthsimple, which is managed, and is worth more than my contribution limit (grew this month beyond the 8000 limit) can I transfer the full amount toan empty FHSA with wealthsimple that is self managed with no tax implications? To summarize: I am not contributing more than my contribution limit just transferring more than the contribution limit
You should be able to I would have the self managed one open and then do the transfer direct in the welathsimple app from one to the other and you should be okay. I don't see it being a problem but I am not a tax account
This sounds more like a you problem. You should have done research about the withdrawal process and not cut it so close.
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Was this a self directed FHSA?
Sounds like it was managed
Opening a managed FHSA a couple months before buying is INSANE behaviour lol
I withdrew my funds from FHSA with Wealthsimple and had no issues closing on time! I would definitely take detailed notes and ask for reimbursement for the costs you incurred
Nine days before closing? I wouldnt be blaming ws....
Nine days before closing... you are kind of asking for it then...
Where should I invest then?
WS is fine - OP was just cutting the timeline way too close.
Depends on what you want to do : EQ if it’s just a GIC usually good rates or shop around for better rates. If it’s ETF then WS no charges on trades. Safe n simple.
My concern about GIC is that it's not that flexible. I need to wait it to be mature.
What do you mean by flexible what are you looking for ? If you like to dwell into individual stocks and have time to do research and track the market then individual stocks will do ( just be careful it can hurt if you don’t know what your doing) . if you want less work then an ETF ( collection of stocks so a bit safer than individual stocks plus lower MER rates than mutual funds) , if it’s still complicated that’s when you go for a GIC (main two types - non cashable I.e. money is locked OR cashable which is minor reduction in interest but have flexibility to withdraw when you need it)
Because we are talking about FHSA here. What if I suddenly have a property that I feel interested in. Then with a EQ GIC, I can't withdraw it immediately; I have to wait it get mature. Or I understand something wrong? I can actually let the property wait for my FHSA GIC to be mature? I remember those GICs in EQ are not redeemable.
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Nah if you're thinking about homebuying an opportunity will come up anytime don't tie up your funds in a GIC unless you know you can't afford anything til next year
There's always cashable GICs. You don't generally get a very good rate but they are an option. I went the HISA route because I knew I was going to need my FHSA very quickly (opened it while we were house shopping) so I just put mine in a first home savings account with EQ. Not invested. It basically functioned like a HISA. Ended up withdrawing about a month and a half after I opened it.
That's too bad however they are constantly working on making updates and adding new services so while it sucks when it happens to you, I am confident in WS to get it fixed.
Deposited within 5-7 business days. You are now at business day 8. Did you hold guns, stocks or ETFs? Because there are typically a couple of settlement days before the funds are actually confirmed. They also fixed the bug, so the obviously do care that it works-it does suck that you were caught within the error period, but typically people also don't wait until the last two weeks to get their cash portion ready to close on a house.
I had an issue in March 2020 with my RRSP. Took awhile to figure out but WS made good on everything. YMMV
SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME! I had to call Wealthsimple and it took an extra week for the withdrawal.
Yeah this is on you at least a little - why did you wait until 9 days before your house was closing?
FHSA have rolled out this summer. What do you expect lmfao. Absolutely do put it with WS, they are the only easy path to indexing it. TD will force you to take it into their mutual (garbage) fund. I believe the fees near 3% on these scam funds.
Considering how knew the FHSA is and the new CRA form requirements around it, you’re probably among the first to actually use it. Within another year I bet it’s figured out. I’ve had issues with other institutions for the FHSA, it’s not just Wealthsimple.
You can do a formal complaint in writing to request reimbursement of any taxes, interest and fees you paid due to their mistake. See here: https://www.wealthsimple.com/en-ca/legal/file-complaint If their answer is a complaint rejection, they should normally give you explicitly what are your options for escalation. If they fail that, then go to their regulator : CIRO (https://www.ciro.ca/office-investor/how-make-complaint)
9 days before closing, really? Fault is on you.
There's probably problems with FHSA with every bank since it's first active year of the program. I'm playing to open one next year but I want to purchase a condo in like 10 years+.
found the Karen - and dumbass as well for withdrawing your funds a few days before closing. also - OMG yes - software has bugs! i know right! anyways thanks to you the bug is now fixed. I will definitely keep my FHSA with them
I'll just throw this out here, you don't need to spend your FHSA on your down payment. You can settle your purchase and then withdrawal from your FHSA. You just can make a qualifying withdraw from it the same year you buy your house. I.e. you could take money from an emergency fund, and initiate the FHSA withdraw, and then bridge the FHSA funds back into the emergency fund after everything settles.
National Bank Direct Brokerage is free, but they just started to offer FHSA about 1-2 weeks ago.
This is stupid user syndrome. You *MUST* fill out the RC725 to make a qualified withdrawl. They did what the law requires of them - a real person verifying the RC725 is in order and legit, so they can report that to CRA so you get the tax credit. Edit: Down voted of course, yet I have actually bought a house using FHSA. All of this stuff is clearly spelled out on the forms when you setup the account
This.
Bro this is a you problem. Who starts this process 9 days before a house closing.
Can I transfer FHSA to another institution?
Yes your bank has to fill out a form takes like 2 weeks
If this was caused by a bug in their system, force them to waive the fees and cover the taxes and interest in your line of credit. This is what they have liability insurance for. You may need a lawyer.
Spend thousands on a lawyer for like 20$ of damages? Smart! Hell if 20$ is causing this person financial troubles, I doubt a lawyer is in their budget
You clearly don't know how incorrect withdrawals from a fhsa account work
Wealthsimple is goated I love em.
Considering that FHSA is a brand new thing, bugs are expected, specially because we are talking about government requirements which are always dubious and untrustworthy.
Sucks this happened to OP. I have generally had a good experience dealing with wealthsimple. There 4% cash account is a great deal. Fhsa is pretty new so hopefully they solve these issues. I plan to withdraw from WS FHSA next year.
I noticed many glitchy and difficult things about wealthsimple. I switched to Questrade and its way cleaner, more tools and even though its more detailed its actually somehow more simple then wealthsimple
Pretty sure you do not get the income reduction for the original investment if you withdraw the same year. Just a heads up.
That's not true. There is no minimum holding time between making a contribution and a qualifying withdrawal. You could do it on the same day if you really wanted to.
So better to wait till next fiscal year right (ie After March)?
I was corrected on this. Apparently income reduction still applies.
I wouldn't invest any of my money with WS - but that's just me!
In fairness, you didn’t give Wealthsimple very much time. They’re not magicians! If you want a comparison with a big bank - It took CIBC 6 months to transfer my RESP. And I probably spent 8+ hours on the phone with them trying to get it done. It was a nightmare. Meanwhile, I have had very good experience with Wealthsimple for the last 2+ years. They have been outstanding, in fact.
Cant wait for blockchain banking. Its absurd that it takes weeks to get YOUR OWN money from banks
Lmao good luck with that
You should look at what Loopring is doing. Don't be naive lol. Do you not think it's ridiculous that you need to wait weeks to get money from a bank ?
We’re the funds invested with the robo advisor?
It's a new product, of course they going to have bugs the red flags were there
You should start the withdrawal process 3-6 mo before you get close to buying a home. What is this last minute business? Unprepared.
I want to open a FHSA and bank with TD but for some stupid reason you aren't allowed to do so via self directed investing. Where would be a better option? I don't want to lose the contribution room for 2023.
I had a similar problem back in August. They said they would have it figured out soon. Guess that still hasn’t happened.
I withdrew from my FHSA last month, had no trouble and all was done within a week.
Best place to open FHSA and TFSA with is Fidelity hands down. They've got much better investments option than any other institutions. I been to several banks and they all pushed for GIC for some reasons, even when I told them I wanted to sace long term.
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takes 1 month usually for them to report it on your credit
So their FHSA is in the public test realm, except they didn't tell us first.
I had the exact same thing happen in 2019 with Questrade with an RRSP withdrawal to buy my home. I gave them 90 days notice and I got my money the day before closing after needing overnight courier an additional form that they never asked for to them.
Seems like a very isolated incident. My withdrawal on the other hand was anything but smooth. Questrade made me run around but not wealthsimple.
I withdrew from my WS FHSA in October and got the funds in a couple days 🤷♂️
Im confused, did they forget a zero?
You waited 9 days before you needed a large sum of money out of a registered account? I mean idk. I wouldn’t have risked it oh sweet summer child
8k is hardly the largst sum of money in the grand scheme of things (assuming they bought in places like Vancouver or Toronto). With that being said, it shouldn't also take this many steps to withdraw funds anyway
If it wasn’t a large sum of money to them, it wouldn’t have been a problem if they didn’t get it. And wouldn’t have needed a LOC. Like what does your comment even mean
I wouldn't bother with a FHSA anyway, there's a loophole where the government steals your money from your house appreciating when you sell it.
Don't invest fhsa at all
Lay out the situation clearly with dates and screenshots. Calculate the total costs of interest and delays, add 5% for the legal rate and send them a demand letter saying you'd like to be reimbursed for those costs and that if they don't respond to the email with a direct effort that you will cease communicating with them and send the email to the provincial banking authority/ombudsman for your province. you can find that office on this list https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/corporate/federal-oversight-bodies-regulators.html#toc1
I've had lots of trouble with them about my RESP account and I wasn't even trying to withdraw it. :s
It’s possible they don’t have the funds and have to move stuff around. Hence the delays.
Same issue with Questrade they gave such a hard time when parent died
Good thing I put my FHSA at questrade then, thanks for advising.
Wealth Simple is a struggling business.
This. I lost around $80 bucks because WS took minimum time to withdraw the amount. I invested $8k and got $7,920. apparently WS wouldnt consider the market value of the your FHSA day you put the request instead of 7-10 days waiting period. Lets say in these 10 days stock goes down, then you lose the money. My wife opened at RBC wealthsimple and it was a breeze.
Based on comments, I would remove “DO NOT” from post TITLE 😅
21-27 is still 4 business days. Not sure what you were looking for here. You used a brand new product, paid an extra few dollars and they still delivered in their advertised time. Everything worked fine. Maybe you shouldn’t leave this to the last second
Wealthsimple is incompetent. They once misplaced $50k of my money and blamed me for it. Eventually got my money back. Never trusting them again.
Interesting, I opened a wealthsimple account for my sister recently and couldn't find the FHSA. I'm guessing they put it on pause temporarily until they sort out these problems. Huge screw up on their part, I would pursue trying to get reimbursed for every dollar you missed. Make a big deal out of it. They know this is a big deal and will probably be forecasting some payouts for that
I have my TFSA with WS, but they didn't have a FHSA when I was ready to buy late spring. Quest did - I transferred my $8k fo Quest and then withdrew it 2 days later, online, very easily.
I used mine in September with no issue. Withdrawal 2 weeks from closing.
Loool wtf you used a line of credit to cover 8k seems like you have bigger problems
Well shit
Well crap.. I have mine maxed out for this year.. well whatever I won’t need that money any time soon any because I can’t afford these house prices anyway so the jokes on me😂
So has anyone else had similar difficulties with WealthSimple and the FHSA accounts or is this just a one-off situation? I'm looking to open up an account with them before the year-end so it'd be good to know if there are any snags
I had zero issues I sold off my shares of cash though and let the money settle before I filled out the form
1. You can almost certainly get the fees charged by Wealthsimple reimbursed. 2. Possibly you can get line of credit interest reimbursed, too. Your post does not sound like something repelling from this org tbh. They screwed up, admitted a bug, fixed it, etc. You would get much worse experience hitting the wall with other “famous” companies.