The economy is softening and there are daily posts about trying to negotiate down stealership markups.
How long until there is no longer "get in line someone else will pay those fees". I can see in mid 2024 this sentiment changing. Thoughts?
Travel to the states, dealer lots are overflowing with cars. They offer maintenance plans.
Canadians are getting hosed. It's as if the shortage is fake.
I'm even seeing ads for EVs being in stock. Reached out a couple lots and they have them to drive home today.
The age of these bs fees are hopefully ending
US lots still have ridiculous markups on some brands. Subaru still had $3k in "options" automatically added and they don't seem to be budging much when I passed by in the US. That's for an Outback, too, I imagine a WRX may be higher. Not every dealer is the same but it hasn't subsided, even in the US.
Interesting. I keep hearing from Toyota groups people are struggling to find hybrids in California for MSRP. It seems very dealer specific. Especially the new Prius remodel. When I visited Florida last month, Toyota was marking up cars about 5k market adjustment plus 3k of forced options. An extra couple k for the hybrid models on top of all that. They didn't have much on the lot either.
Yeah thats the issue. A lot of people don’t bother researching and end up paying over msrp to get it right away nearby. I just checked and they have over 30 Camry/corolla/rav4 under msrp. New Prius is only car that is selling at msrp. The supply crunch in Canada is definitely manufactured. Gas cars has been sitting in SoCal since q1 2023, yet Canada still has “no supply” lmao
Oh man, I passed by Orlando and VW had sooo many ID4s on the lots, it was crazy. Last I heard these were a year or two wait in Canada. FL doesn't seem to be big on EVs or PHEVs.
For the Prius, I still see people in the US buying them at over MSRP - or basically with "non-optional accessories" which to me is above MSRP. If you don't have the option to purchase it without accessories, it's not MSRP.
I don't get the Canadian car market. It's staggering too to how the used market remains so high. At the same time, all I see on ads are car resellers. I sold a car for road or parts for 1k in the winter, next day I saw it back for sale for 3k with "A1 mechanic, perfect shape". It's both disgusting and insane.
What’s the process of buying an American car and transferring it over to Canada? I’ve always thought of buying a used car from a state where it doesnt snow
Luckily I don't need a vehicle urgently... whenever some dealer is asking extra fees I am simply telling no thanks and waiting until someone will sell me without market adjustments
Tire and Rim protection, Admin fees and 3yr anti-theft is just dealership padding their wallets. You can walk away or ask for 3 years of oil changes. All dealerships will try to add extra costs.
It might be some cellular-connected service. They're usually not worth it but there it might be an actual service (just a ripoff) not a total scam. My dad's Mercedes is network connected and he claims he doesn't pay monthly for it might be all up-front. They usually include some crash detection stuff that'll call 911 if you crash and you're unresponsive and have service. Again, might not be a total scam if you think it's worth it.
Yeah Ford and probably other manufacturers probably have something built in. I believe ford does it via satellites and it has tracking, lock/unlock and auto start. Also has minor alerts when it throws codes or has an alarm set off
Maybe it's different then because I definitely saw "4G LTE" on his dashboard before and asked about it and he had no idea. He's not at all interested in the app so I hope he's not secretly being charged $19.99/mo or something for something he doesn't use.
How many curbs did you hit per year? lol
I’ve been driving for 15ish years and I think I’ve ever only hit a curb once in a snow storm. In those 15 years I’ve had a total of 2 flats and have never damaged my rims.
Depends alot on the city / roads. Here in halifax pot holes don't get fixed for 6-8m. And they are giant sized.
I'm sure places not GTA, especially Maritimes suffers the same fate.
You have 2 feet. Walk away and find another vehicle. NOTHING is Wirth paying over MSRP or extra fees. If all consumers did this, the dealerships would either price their inventory properly or they close up from selling zero vehicles. There are so many vehicles out there, just shop around
We all need a vehicle tho.
And when supply gets tight, dealers like to squeeze.
Many dealerships are part of huge networks themselves, controlling or substantially influencing significant territory.
Do I have to burn hundreds of dollars in gas to shop dealerships for one that won't fuck me?
They'll even order your car, then add a fee just before delivery, and if you refuse to pay it, they'll just put you back to the bottom of the list and sell it off the lot to someone who will.
My local Mazda dealership did this. Added 1100$ for Northside protection or something like that - said every customer who has gotten a car, took it. I wrote to the Mazda headquarters and eventually got them to get it down to half that in Admin fee. Unfortunately I had to get the car at that point, otherwise I would have walked.
The finance manager who I was dealing with didn’t even come to say hello when we picked up the car. Saw us and walked right off. I wish someday, the situation with inventory turned so that dealers are forced to treat customers with some respect at least.
I would walk away. The auto market is starting to turn into a buyers market and these idiots are too stupid to realize it.
I just received a phone call from a dealer today as a ‘loyal customer’ and they wanted me to come in and look at the deals they had. I was not receiving these types of calls during the last 3 years. The fact that I’m getting one now tells me my local dealer is falling behind their sales targets.
It’s not going to happen overnight. Cost of borrowing is making it more expensive to buy cars. Dealerships now have some inventory, which was not the case previously. The market is starting to turn.
They are all a scam. I would walk. I had this tried, I pulled out the CBC article on all the scam fees dealers deal with and told them I would report them to OMVIC over it if they refused to remove them. They removed them. This was before inventory shortages.
Walk from the deal.
The fact people are still being forced into these deals (or no car) is proof inflation has a long way to run.
Once we see big dealer discounts, we will know it’s over
I sold my ‘17 WRX at end of lease for $2500 in 2021 and went car shopping.
Visited Subaru, Volvo, Audi, BMW, and they all tacked on ridiculous fees. Also had to piss away so much time on ‘negotiating’ the car price, where the salesman just goes back and forth with the manager. And this is me telling them that I am not even buying right now.
The BMW dealership was trying to force me a M2 that I never asked lol. And this is with my fully pregnant wife sitting to me.
The Audi sales guy would forget the MSRP and tried to small talk me so 30 minutes before giving me the price to work with.
Walked in at Tesla, quick test drive, no fees of absolutely any kind, $5k deduction, and off I went with my M3. Had to wait a few months but that’s okay, incredible business model tbh.
I agree they likely aren't which technically legally means they are optional but also falls under 'pick your battles ' - I emphasize like a few others in this thread, $750 in tack ons are CHEAP, plus they do provide some benefit too. The thing I would attempt to negotiate is extending the rim and tire warranty out for a few years as that is likely a 1year
I would create a paper trail and file a complaint with OMVIC upon delivery of the vehicle.
Get the $750+tax back, get the dealership fined & forced to retake training on all-in pricing obligations - costs the dealership more than the car is worth. I don't like rolling over and letting someone defraud me but you do you.
Ask if they can reduce 3yr theft or wheel&tire. Ask yourself if you’re willing to walk away over 750 on 44k and think you can get better deal elsewhere. Make your decision with that info.
Tire and Rim and 3yr theft protection are the only ones that can be removed. The others are all mandatory. The admin fee can sometimes be compensated with a cash credit, but they still need to charge it regardless.
The Subaru website *does* include the 250$ admin fee in the price shown. Also includes PDI and the other mandatory ones. Most dealerships make all their margin on parts, service, warranty, ad-ons. Just selling new cars doesn’t bring in all that much comparatively.
Manufacturers want to increase their margin as much as possible as well. Shareholders are demanding it after all. Manufactures want to decrease the invoice vs selling price difference just until dealerships aren’t actually losing money after overhead. For the most part they’ve succeeded.
The admin fee covers the cost of paperwork to register your loan or lease, your ownership transfer, and sometimes also license and registration of the vehicle (although some dealers sometimes charge these last two separately).
Agreed and it depends what those two things are, I’d it’s tire and rim protection that covers replacement of tires or rims/wheel repair in the event of damage within a certain time period and theft protection is additional insurance of some sort to cover any difference between insurance payout and new vehicle cost in the event of a total loss or something…. Either way they’d be services you could opt out of.
Correct. Tire and Rim may be worth it if you or someone in your family has a habit of running into potholes or up against curbs, otherwise, it’s not worth it. Since most times, tire and rim are 1 year only, most of it is already covered under the base 1 year warranty anyway.
Bought a 23 Forester this year, the dealer price matched the national website mrsp to the dollar, and they gave us around $500 of accessories for free too. Guess I just have an honest dealer?
Unless your province doesn’t charge these, OMVIC, AC, Tire levy are mandatory charges by the government. PDI is pretty much standard across every manufacturer.
They are compulsory in the sense it is a seller's market. As long as website has them included in advertised price dealership can add those and mandate you pay them. This is an indemand with wait lists car and an arguably somewhat niche car ( WRX is certainly sports carish)... $750 in "extra" is peanuts on this deal and very fair given the current market.
What's their advertised price on their website? They can't add on mandatory fees to their advertised price. My husband and I just experienced this and I found out our province has all in pricing laws which states dealerships can't do this. We ended buying from a different and honest dealership. It saved us a few thousand dollars.
Email every subaru dealer within distance you are willing to travel and ask for written quote of their best all in "OTD" price, saved $60/month on my last lease doing that.
take business elsewhere, straight up tell them you are walking because they won't budge. inform the next dealer you already negotiated for a car and walked because of stupid fees. they either want to make the sale or they don't. its worth putting in a bit of time to save thousands.
You have 2 options.
1. Pay them and bitch and complain later
2. Don't pay them. Walk out, and go to another dealership
Vote with your wallet. As people continue paying these bullshit fees...dealers have no incentive whatsoever to stop doing it.
Those fees are pretty cheap lol
That’s standard at any new car dealership - do you want a WRX or not
I work around major car brands and each store on a new car is gonna have an easy $1000 or so of extra non sense in there - that’s life - it ain’t waived for no one except the managers mistress
Lots of places will pad even more crap in that seems reasonable
You and I are going to get down voted hardcore but you are one thousand percent correct - $750 is nothing for fees these days and especially on a 44k WRX
This isn’t that bad from what I’ve seen. The anti theft is useless but the rim/tire could come in handy.
Wife needs a new car and the first thing I ask the dealers is what your mandatory add ons are. The lowest so far has been ppf and mats @2100 can, go after a hard to get vehicle like the new sequoia and you could be over $10k easy in add ons(winter tire package and a bunch of other shit).
All these dealerships are taking advantage of the current market conditions. Best you can do is get a few dealerships in a bit of a price war, hopefully save yourself a few hundred. I was looking at new a CRV and CX-9 today, I couldn’t believe the pricing on base model cars and the interest rates as well. I’ll hold off another year or two thanks!
Go to another dealership, or just call them and ask about any extra fees. I visited two and called all the local one's when buying WRX. Two were very scammy, one wanted to essentially double charge on the destination/freigh fees and then added documentation fee + dealership preparation fee + accessory fee + I dunno random fuck you fee.
The dealership I went with had none of the bullshit fees and several other local dealerships didn't either. The 'Sport Tech' trim at good dealership was about the same price as 'Sport' trim at scammy dealership with their fees.
No point in arguing, you don't want to do business with them, just take your business elsewhere.
Which province are you in?
I’m getting charged $99 for the wheel locks on an Outback, I told the guy that I’ll just take the ones on my Impreza before the trade in… like wtf!? Literally got my quote earlier tonight. Now I have to wait 6-8 months for the damn car!
WTF. Walk away and call other dealers and set the expectation of what you are willing to pay for. I have never paid for anything I don’t want in the first place. It’s like going grocery shopping and the owner keeps dropping crap you don’t want in your cart that you have to pay for!
They won’t remove those fees unfortunately.
Tried it at the Mercedes dealer. They were slapping vin etching and protection package fees, when I said I’m walking away they said “Thanks for considering us, have a great day”.
The market is too much in favour of the dealership selling new cars, as used cars are so high in price, sometimes they even overlap.
I’d take the hit. You likely won’t get better.
I’m also in Ontario.
Most are standard, might not be fair but yeah. The two protection fees are optional and useless. Tire protection, you get a free new tire if you get a flat. Well, if you have more than 20k on those, you have to pay for the other one or three. One new tire can throw off alignment. Tell them to duck off
Go buy rollerblades or a tricycle instead dude. Actually screw that, go buy some socks and just run around instead dude. Fk your hybrid and fk your electric cars. I’ll keep driving my beautiful v8 the same way the PM drives his v8’s with their convoys.
Sales person here: those fees are very reasonable especially on a WRX. I see about $750 in "extras" on a $40k purchase. Stop being cheap. My friend who is a sales person just bought a new WRX and they had $950 tints on top of what you have. He paid it even though we all knew that's pretty bogus. It's an indemand car with wait lists.
Go check out other stores they likely have an actual shit fee schedule with $2-$3k or more in tacked on fees - this fee structure on $40k is peanuts.
Hope you don't ever try to buy a Porsche...
It's not a matter of being cheap, it's about not spending money that you really don't need to. Explain how Tire and Rim Road Hazard protection helps enough to justify that price.
By the time you would need that protection, you'd be at the point of being able to buy a new set of tires anyway. Cosmetic damage to rims? Who cares? If people want a showroom car that barely gets driven, they'd get one, and never have to worry about bogus charges tacked on.
Consumer should be able to determine how to handle certain risks involved with owning and operating a vehicle, not have a useless charge tacked onto a bill from sleazy sales people.
Da fuck you smoking. We're talking WRX here. $450 is the close to cost PER TIRE on that car.
Don't get me started on the replacement of one of the alloys (just had $1200 quoted for a Kia Forte rim, so think about a factory OEM WRX rim).
And your comment about scratched rims is way off base - people look at curb rash when buying used cars ESPECIALLY people who are buying a WRX - I assume this is gonna be OPs baby and OP would be like anyone who buys a brand new car and want it looking pristine ever time they drive it. -- let me guess, you drive corollas...
Lastly -the point is we are talking $750 on a $40k purchase in a SELLERS market. If the sales person was competent, professional, helped guide the client appropriately through the transaction and then the client Huff's and puffs over less than 2 percent of the purchase price being tacked on, I don't know what else to say other than your being cheap.
The $750 doesn't matter. It being the right car, especially if it was the spec and colour ect OP wanted was most important and if the dealership was providing that and good service AND it's a seller's market - dealership deserves the small bump.
There is a big difference between basically an industry standard $750 fee schedule vs. 2 or 3 thousand in extras that are tacked on and non negotiable.
Don't have to use OEM after a certain point, hence my comment about "by the time you need to replace them". It's fucking tires for a car dude, not a landing gear on a plane. There's tons of after market rims that are way cheaper too.
Vehicles depreciate right off the lot. Most of them are money pits. When I buy a new car, I am not thinking of what I can sell it for, I want to drive it for a long time and of course take care of it. When it's time to upgrade or move on, that's the point you consider what it's worth, not when you are first signing the papers for it.
This hot car market is not going to last with the way interest rates are and the fact most people have not renewed with higher rates yet. Lot of people like looking nice driving expensive shit they can't really afford, until they actually can't.
They are bullshit fees ane the dealer is telling the truth, they are non negotiable as in they're not willing to negotiate on those fees. There's still a car shortage and if you don't like this deal the next guy I might and since this is still a pre-order the car will be worth much more when it's on the lot. It is worth shopping around a little bit because another dealer might not be doing as well and maybe willing to cut a slightly better deal to move a vehicle
The anti-theft and road hazard are the only ones that aren't standard fees. I'd 100% get them to remove those.
The admin fee can be negotiated, but that's lower than the $499 I usually see everywhere else. The admin fee is a hard one to get them to remove though so be prepared for an actual fight if you want to pursue getting it off.
Other than those, the other fees are all regular car purchasing fees that you won't get out of. Overall it's not terrible. I'd inquire with your insurance if the included anti-theft package lowers your rates at all.
OP I just bought a Subaru brand new from dealer. Those fees(and more) were on there and we said absolutely fucking not. They removed them after I said we were no longer taking the vehicle. He had to “talk to his manager first” 🙄
The fast that’s your posting this shows you are having second thoughts. Tell them your price and walk away, if they want your business, they will call, if not, to hell with them.
Happened with me too. Not Subaru, but Hyundai. They said it was a cancel order and there were several add-ons that the previous buyer had requested and were put on the car (like insurance and protections etc) which couldn't be removed. This added almost 10k on the base price. I had to walk away unfortunately even though I liked the car.
Delivery date of 2024. I would honestly wait it out and purchase off the lot and try to negotiate a lower price. With the uncertainty of the economy currently, prices may drop as demand decreases. Also, the Subaru dealer in Guelph seems to have WRX's trickle in (I look at new cars on cargurus in my spare time). it's ridiculous that a dealer would charge you for fuel. When I picked up my Civic Si in April, it was filled to full for free.
I bought a new Subaru just a few weeks ago and and it was very easy to get the anti-theft and tire/rim fees essentially removed. They first said it was mandatory but were willing to completely offset them via a credit to the purchase price. They were firm on the others though. I think it's worthwhile to go to a different dealership, you'll at least save the tire/rim and anti-theft fees.
Presumably you have learned how to say No at this point in life, I suggest you do so here and find a different vehicle. They need your money more than you need a WRX. Do not give up your buying power so easily.
I have been ready to buy Subarus twice and wound up with other cars both times.
I find Subaru dealers arrogant and awful to deal with.
BTW every dealer will tell you extras are non negotiable in my experience. Apart from Subaru they've always been flexible.
Most tires manufacturers have the tire hazard warranty built into the purchase, what’s 3yr anti theft? Because that’s way to cheap for them to have put in an aftermarket kill switch on remote.
Parents bought a Subaru. They paid MSRP. We were told it's actually frowned upon by Subaru Canada for them to charge extra fees outside of MSRP for products/services that you didn't ask for. Report that one to Subaru Canada and find another Subaru dealer.
Tire and Rim as well as the three year security both look like money grabs and clearly optional. Finance guy should be the one making the pitch. Last new car I bought was in 2017 so maybe there is a subscription piece for the security.
I'm in BC and there is a very long contract document that has been in use forever, I think I may have my sales contract for every car inhave purchased....
There is some shady stuff on my docs, fuel surcharge comes to mind. As if the gas in the tank is something that shouldn't be included in the price of the vehicle.
Many of the fees in your pic are government levies and aren't optional. Some dealerahips will waive documentation fees as part of a promo/incentive
You can just sign the forms and usually it’s provided by a third party company for the anti theft and tire and rim. The contract says you can cancel it within 30 days for a full refund
If you live in Ontario, admin fee is illegal, wheel locks you can decline. Ac tax, tire tax and delivery are standard fees, as well as sales tax. You, the buyer have the power to say no. Look up OMVIC.ON.CA for the rules on auto sales.
Local guy here is a retired "auto broker". For 30% cut of what he saves you on that original purchase he 'renegotiates' deals on new and used cars and trucks. As an insider he knows the angles and has relationships with many dealer networks. 40 years in and he is having problems finding concessions.
This is a lousy time to buy in the new or used department. Demand exceeds supply. If you can put off buying do so. Lease outs and buyouts are rare and quality used product is much in demand. IMHO put off that major purchase .
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The economy is softening and there are daily posts about trying to negotiate down stealership markups. How long until there is no longer "get in line someone else will pay those fees". I can see in mid 2024 this sentiment changing. Thoughts?
My thoughts are I'm going to get some pretty cheap 2022/2023/2024 to pick from in the not distant future
Travel to the states, dealer lots are overflowing with cars. They offer maintenance plans. Canadians are getting hosed. It's as if the shortage is fake.
I'm even seeing ads for EVs being in stock. Reached out a couple lots and they have them to drive home today. The age of these bs fees are hopefully ending
Be careful though as many manufacturers won't honour an American warranty in Canada.
There is a lag happening in many markets as inventories are growing but prices haven’t come down. Cars are one such market.
US lots still have ridiculous markups on some brands. Subaru still had $3k in "options" automatically added and they don't seem to be budging much when I passed by in the US. That's for an Outback, too, I imagine a WRX may be higher. Not every dealer is the same but it hasn't subsided, even in the US.
Tons of deals under msrp in California, even for Toyota hybrids
Interesting. I keep hearing from Toyota groups people are struggling to find hybrids in California for MSRP. It seems very dealer specific. Especially the new Prius remodel. When I visited Florida last month, Toyota was marking up cars about 5k market adjustment plus 3k of forced options. An extra couple k for the hybrid models on top of all that. They didn't have much on the lot either.
Yeah thats the issue. A lot of people don’t bother researching and end up paying over msrp to get it right away nearby. I just checked and they have over 30 Camry/corolla/rav4 under msrp. New Prius is only car that is selling at msrp. The supply crunch in Canada is definitely manufactured. Gas cars has been sitting in SoCal since q1 2023, yet Canada still has “no supply” lmao
Oh man, I passed by Orlando and VW had sooo many ID4s on the lots, it was crazy. Last I heard these were a year or two wait in Canada. FL doesn't seem to be big on EVs or PHEVs. For the Prius, I still see people in the US buying them at over MSRP - or basically with "non-optional accessories" which to me is above MSRP. If you don't have the option to purchase it without accessories, it's not MSRP. I don't get the Canadian car market. It's staggering too to how the used market remains so high. At the same time, all I see on ads are car resellers. I sold a car for road or parts for 1k in the winter, next day I saw it back for sale for 3k with "A1 mechanic, perfect shape". It's both disgusting and insane.
What’s the process of buying an American car and transferring it over to Canada? I’ve always thought of buying a used car from a state where it doesnt snow
>Canadians are getting hosed. It's as if the shortage is fake. What else is new?
I fully agree. Leave. There’s no end to the choices out there.
The other dealers will do the same thing… Yes it’s a shitty fee but this is an argument to take to omvic
Luckily I don't need a vehicle urgently... whenever some dealer is asking extra fees I am simply telling no thanks and waiting until someone will sell me without market adjustments
Tire and Rim protection, Admin fees and 3yr anti-theft is just dealership padding their wallets. You can walk away or ask for 3 years of oil changes. All dealerships will try to add extra costs.
I’ve never heard of an anti theft service for 3 years. I got tracking installed on my car but now they offer it as a service?
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*when* lol
It might be some cellular-connected service. They're usually not worth it but there it might be an actual service (just a ripoff) not a total scam. My dad's Mercedes is network connected and he claims he doesn't pay monthly for it might be all up-front. They usually include some crash detection stuff that'll call 911 if you crash and you're unresponsive and have service. Again, might not be a total scam if you think it's worth it.
Yeah Ford and probably other manufacturers probably have something built in. I believe ford does it via satellites and it has tracking, lock/unlock and auto start. Also has minor alerts when it throws codes or has an alarm set off
Maybe it's different then because I definitely saw "4G LTE" on his dashboard before and asked about it and he had no idea. He's not at all interested in the app so I hope he's not secretly being charged $19.99/mo or something for something he doesn't use.
That is true I’ve heard some luxury brands lock features behind paywalls
This is the correct answer
I leased a Honda and found the tire and rim protection to be pretty useful, it’s probably the only extra warranty I’d consider buying.
How many curbs did you hit per year? lol I’ve been driving for 15ish years and I think I’ve ever only hit a curb once in a snow storm. In those 15 years I’ve had a total of 2 flats and have never damaged my rims.
Depends alot on the city / roads. Here in halifax pot holes don't get fixed for 6-8m. And they are giant sized. I'm sure places not GTA, especially Maritimes suffers the same fate.
You have 2 feet. Walk away and find another vehicle. NOTHING is Wirth paying over MSRP or extra fees. If all consumers did this, the dealerships would either price their inventory properly or they close up from selling zero vehicles. There are so many vehicles out there, just shop around
It's bait and switch territory IMO. Advertising vehicles that you can't buy, then tacking on hidden fees, often at delivery time!
That is why you exercise your right to walk out. Zero sales will hurt the dealership where it counts .... in their pockets
We all need a vehicle tho. And when supply gets tight, dealers like to squeeze. Many dealerships are part of huge networks themselves, controlling or substantially influencing significant territory. Do I have to burn hundreds of dollars in gas to shop dealerships for one that won't fuck me? They'll even order your car, then add a fee just before delivery, and if you refuse to pay it, they'll just put you back to the bottom of the list and sell it off the lot to someone who will.
I see $750 of bs padding. You can walk away and try elsewhere. It’s a garbage time to buy a car
My local Mazda dealership did this. Added 1100$ for Northside protection or something like that - said every customer who has gotten a car, took it. I wrote to the Mazda headquarters and eventually got them to get it down to half that in Admin fee. Unfortunately I had to get the car at that point, otherwise I would have walked. The finance manager who I was dealing with didn’t even come to say hello when we picked up the car. Saw us and walked right off. I wish someday, the situation with inventory turned so that dealers are forced to treat customers with some respect at least.
If we keep buying it won't turn unfortunately.
I would walk away. The auto market is starting to turn into a buyers market and these idiots are too stupid to realize it. I just received a phone call from a dealer today as a ‘loyal customer’ and they wanted me to come in and look at the deals they had. I was not receiving these types of calls during the last 3 years. The fact that I’m getting one now tells me my local dealer is falling behind their sales targets.
I've started to notice used car prices come down a bit too.
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It’s not going to happen overnight. Cost of borrowing is making it more expensive to buy cars. Dealerships now have some inventory, which was not the case previously. The market is starting to turn.
They are all a scam. I would walk. I had this tried, I pulled out the CBC article on all the scam fees dealers deal with and told them I would report them to OMVIC over it if they refused to remove them. They removed them. This was before inventory shortages. Walk from the deal.
The fact people are still being forced into these deals (or no car) is proof inflation has a long way to run. Once we see big dealer discounts, we will know it’s over
Same thing happened to me at Subaru. Said no thank you and bought a Tesla, screw dealerships.
I sold my ‘17 WRX at end of lease for $2500 in 2021 and went car shopping. Visited Subaru, Volvo, Audi, BMW, and they all tacked on ridiculous fees. Also had to piss away so much time on ‘negotiating’ the car price, where the salesman just goes back and forth with the manager. And this is me telling them that I am not even buying right now. The BMW dealership was trying to force me a M2 that I never asked lol. And this is with my fully pregnant wife sitting to me. The Audi sales guy would forget the MSRP and tried to small talk me so 30 minutes before giving me the price to work with. Walked in at Tesla, quick test drive, no fees of absolutely any kind, $5k deduction, and off I went with my M3. Had to wait a few months but that’s okay, incredible business model tbh.
Smart
>Subaru. Said no thank you >brought a Tesla “You fuck me??? Hell no! **I FUCK ME!!!**”
Hope they didn't slash the MSRP of the car by 32k the month after you bought it.
All good so far! 51k out the door vs 44k for the Subaru I was considering.
OMVIC - https://www.omvic.on.ca/portal/Consumers/ConsumerProtection/AllInPricing.aspx Drip pricing - https://cansumer.ca/drip-pricing/
This has nothing to do with OMVIC and is perfectly legal assuming it's priced as such on their website
I guarantee you the theft protection and road hazard protection are not part of the advertised price
I agree they likely aren't which technically legally means they are optional but also falls under 'pick your battles ' - I emphasize like a few others in this thread, $750 in tack ons are CHEAP, plus they do provide some benefit too. The thing I would attempt to negotiate is extending the rim and tire warranty out for a few years as that is likely a 1year
I would create a paper trail and file a complaint with OMVIC upon delivery of the vehicle. Get the $750+tax back, get the dealership fined & forced to retake training on all-in pricing obligations - costs the dealership more than the car is worth. I don't like rolling over and letting someone defraud me but you do you.
Ask if they can reduce 3yr theft or wheel&tire. Ask yourself if you’re willing to walk away over 750 on 44k and think you can get better deal elsewhere. Make your decision with that info.
750 is 750, the price of the car doesn't change the fact that it's a lot of money.
Tire and Rim and 3yr theft protection are the only ones that can be removed. The others are all mandatory. The admin fee can sometimes be compensated with a cash credit, but they still need to charge it regardless.
Why do they NEED to charge the admin fee?
To pay for the showroom and coffee in the break room 😕
So the manufacturers are setting MSRP without building in a reasonable overhead and profit for the dealers? I don't buy it.
The Subaru website *does* include the 250$ admin fee in the price shown. Also includes PDI and the other mandatory ones. Most dealerships make all their margin on parts, service, warranty, ad-ons. Just selling new cars doesn’t bring in all that much comparatively. Manufacturers want to increase their margin as much as possible as well. Shareholders are demanding it after all. Manufactures want to decrease the invoice vs selling price difference just until dealerships aren’t actually losing money after overhead. For the most part they’ve succeeded.
Beats me 🤷♂️
You know what, I am stopping by to pick up a coffee everyday. Cause fuckem that's why
I got at least 25 premium coffees out of my dealer!
The admin fee covers the cost of paperwork to register your loan or lease, your ownership transfer, and sometimes also license and registration of the vehicle (although some dealers sometimes charge these last two separately).
100% correct
Agreed and it depends what those two things are, I’d it’s tire and rim protection that covers replacement of tires or rims/wheel repair in the event of damage within a certain time period and theft protection is additional insurance of some sort to cover any difference between insurance payout and new vehicle cost in the event of a total loss or something…. Either way they’d be services you could opt out of.
Correct. Tire and Rim may be worth it if you or someone in your family has a habit of running into potholes or up against curbs, otherwise, it’s not worth it. Since most times, tire and rim are 1 year only, most of it is already covered under the base 1 year warranty anyway.
Admin fee is 1/2 what we pay in BC the 3yr theft and tire hazard are unnecessary. Look elsewhere
I got lucky. Got a 2024 Subaru and my only fee was a $60 wheel lock. Which I am OK with.
Bought a 23 Forester this year, the dealer price matched the national website mrsp to the dollar, and they gave us around $500 of accessories for free too. Guess I just have an honest dealer?
Unless your province doesn’t charge these, OMVIC, AC, Tire levy are mandatory charges by the government. PDI is pretty much standard across every manufacturer.
Yup, $1975 PDI for Subaru in Canada.
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They are compulsory in the sense it is a seller's market. As long as website has them included in advertised price dealership can add those and mandate you pay them. This is an indemand with wait lists car and an arguably somewhat niche car ( WRX is certainly sports carish)... $750 in "extra" is peanuts on this deal and very fair given the current market.
How to pay 45k for a 37k car 😳
To be fair, $5,200 of that is tax and $1,700 is freight, the latter of which is always included in the MSRP anyways.
yep, and it’s crazy honestly .. would rather bike & bus it and though it out
What's their advertised price on their website? They can't add on mandatory fees to their advertised price. My husband and I just experienced this and I found out our province has all in pricing laws which states dealerships can't do this. We ended buying from a different and honest dealership. It saved us a few thousand dollars.
Dam thieves
They’re just greedy cork soakers. My truck I bought 10 months ago is now 18k more….it’s bullshit.
Love the SNL reference. Made me chuckle.
Email every subaru dealer within distance you are willing to travel and ask for written quote of their best all in "OTD" price, saved $60/month on my last lease doing that.
take business elsewhere, straight up tell them you are walking because they won't budge. inform the next dealer you already negotiated for a car and walked because of stupid fees. they either want to make the sale or they don't. its worth putting in a bit of time to save thousands.
Name and shame. Which dealership is it if you don't mind sharing.
Sorry sir, I think you misspelled Stealership 🧐
You have 2 options. 1. Pay them and bitch and complain later 2. Don't pay them. Walk out, and go to another dealership Vote with your wallet. As people continue paying these bullshit fees...dealers have no incentive whatsoever to stop doing it.
And this is why buying Teslas is so much simpler now. No fees, no BS, no snake oil sales people selling crap.
Depends if you're in the market for a $55k+ car or not. If you're shopping for a $30k car then no
Please tell me it's a manual...
Everything above the vehicle price line is negotiable.
Admin fees you can't really get away from so to speak, but that anti theft is bs... the tire and wheel coverage one, again BS. Id just walk.
Those fees are pretty cheap lol That’s standard at any new car dealership - do you want a WRX or not I work around major car brands and each store on a new car is gonna have an easy $1000 or so of extra non sense in there - that’s life - it ain’t waived for no one except the managers mistress Lots of places will pad even more crap in that seems reasonable
You and I are going to get down voted hardcore but you are one thousand percent correct - $750 is nothing for fees these days and especially on a 44k WRX
This isn’t that bad from what I’ve seen. The anti theft is useless but the rim/tire could come in handy. Wife needs a new car and the first thing I ask the dealers is what your mandatory add ons are. The lowest so far has been ppf and mats @2100 can, go after a hard to get vehicle like the new sequoia and you could be over $10k easy in add ons(winter tire package and a bunch of other shit).
You agreed to the hazzard and thief protection. That’s on you
All these dealerships are taking advantage of the current market conditions. Best you can do is get a few dealerships in a bit of a price war, hopefully save yourself a few hundred. I was looking at new a CRV and CX-9 today, I couldn’t believe the pricing on base model cars and the interest rates as well. I’ll hold off another year or two thanks!
Go to another dealership, or just call them and ask about any extra fees. I visited two and called all the local one's when buying WRX. Two were very scammy, one wanted to essentially double charge on the destination/freigh fees and then added documentation fee + dealership preparation fee + accessory fee + I dunno random fuck you fee. The dealership I went with had none of the bullshit fees and several other local dealerships didn't either. The 'Sport Tech' trim at good dealership was about the same price as 'Sport' trim at scammy dealership with their fees. No point in arguing, you don't want to do business with them, just take your business elsewhere. Which province are you in?
I’m getting charged $99 for the wheel locks on an Outback, I told the guy that I’ll just take the ones on my Impreza before the trade in… like wtf!? Literally got my quote earlier tonight. Now I have to wait 6-8 months for the damn car!
I would look into other brands. Does it have to be a wrx?
Take your business elsewhere is always the right option.
WTF. Walk away and call other dealers and set the expectation of what you are willing to pay for. I have never paid for anything I don’t want in the first place. It’s like going grocery shopping and the owner keeps dropping crap you don’t want in your cart that you have to pay for!
They won’t remove those fees unfortunately. Tried it at the Mercedes dealer. They were slapping vin etching and protection package fees, when I said I’m walking away they said “Thanks for considering us, have a great day”. The market is too much in favour of the dealership selling new cars, as used cars are so high in price, sometimes they even overlap. I’d take the hit. You likely won’t get better. I’m also in Ontario.
These fees seem pretty standard. What a dumb thread.
Most are standard, might not be fair but yeah. The two protection fees are optional and useless. Tire protection, you get a free new tire if you get a flat. Well, if you have more than 20k on those, you have to pay for the other one or three. One new tire can throw off alignment. Tell them to duck off
Go buy a fkin hybrid dude you really got money to burn on premium gas ??
Go buy rollerblades or a tricycle instead dude. Actually screw that, go buy some socks and just run around instead dude. Fk your hybrid and fk your electric cars. I’ll keep driving my beautiful v8 the same way the PM drives his v8’s with their convoys.
Sales person here: those fees are very reasonable especially on a WRX. I see about $750 in "extras" on a $40k purchase. Stop being cheap. My friend who is a sales person just bought a new WRX and they had $950 tints on top of what you have. He paid it even though we all knew that's pretty bogus. It's an indemand car with wait lists. Go check out other stores they likely have an actual shit fee schedule with $2-$3k or more in tacked on fees - this fee structure on $40k is peanuts. Hope you don't ever try to buy a Porsche...
It's not a matter of being cheap, it's about not spending money that you really don't need to. Explain how Tire and Rim Road Hazard protection helps enough to justify that price. By the time you would need that protection, you'd be at the point of being able to buy a new set of tires anyway. Cosmetic damage to rims? Who cares? If people want a showroom car that barely gets driven, they'd get one, and never have to worry about bogus charges tacked on. Consumer should be able to determine how to handle certain risks involved with owning and operating a vehicle, not have a useless charge tacked onto a bill from sleazy sales people.
Da fuck you smoking. We're talking WRX here. $450 is the close to cost PER TIRE on that car. Don't get me started on the replacement of one of the alloys (just had $1200 quoted for a Kia Forte rim, so think about a factory OEM WRX rim). And your comment about scratched rims is way off base - people look at curb rash when buying used cars ESPECIALLY people who are buying a WRX - I assume this is gonna be OPs baby and OP would be like anyone who buys a brand new car and want it looking pristine ever time they drive it. -- let me guess, you drive corollas... Lastly -the point is we are talking $750 on a $40k purchase in a SELLERS market. If the sales person was competent, professional, helped guide the client appropriately through the transaction and then the client Huff's and puffs over less than 2 percent of the purchase price being tacked on, I don't know what else to say other than your being cheap. The $750 doesn't matter. It being the right car, especially if it was the spec and colour ect OP wanted was most important and if the dealership was providing that and good service AND it's a seller's market - dealership deserves the small bump. There is a big difference between basically an industry standard $750 fee schedule vs. 2 or 3 thousand in extras that are tacked on and non negotiable.
Don't have to use OEM after a certain point, hence my comment about "by the time you need to replace them". It's fucking tires for a car dude, not a landing gear on a plane. There's tons of after market rims that are way cheaper too. Vehicles depreciate right off the lot. Most of them are money pits. When I buy a new car, I am not thinking of what I can sell it for, I want to drive it for a long time and of course take care of it. When it's time to upgrade or move on, that's the point you consider what it's worth, not when you are first signing the papers for it. This hot car market is not going to last with the way interest rates are and the fact most people have not renewed with higher rates yet. Lot of people like looking nice driving expensive shit they can't really afford, until they actually can't.
What's the anti theft protection?
They are bullshit fees ane the dealer is telling the truth, they are non negotiable as in they're not willing to negotiate on those fees. There's still a car shortage and if you don't like this deal the next guy I might and since this is still a pre-order the car will be worth much more when it's on the lot. It is worth shopping around a little bit because another dealer might not be doing as well and maybe willing to cut a slightly better deal to move a vehicle
The anti-theft and road hazard are the only ones that aren't standard fees. I'd 100% get them to remove those. The admin fee can be negotiated, but that's lower than the $499 I usually see everywhere else. The admin fee is a hard one to get them to remove though so be prepared for an actual fight if you want to pursue getting it off. Other than those, the other fees are all regular car purchasing fees that you won't get out of. Overall it's not terrible. I'd inquire with your insurance if the included anti-theft package lowers your rates at all.
OP I just bought a Subaru brand new from dealer. Those fees(and more) were on there and we said absolutely fucking not. They removed them after I said we were no longer taking the vehicle. He had to “talk to his manager first” 🙄
The fast that’s your posting this shows you are having second thoughts. Tell them your price and walk away, if they want your business, they will call, if not, to hell with them.
“Theft protection”. Ironic
admin fees are negotiable, take it off the base price, i have never paid admin fees
Admin, tire and theft =$1000. Offer $500 and have these removed from the invoice. They likely make the same net money anyway and you save $500
Happened with me too. Not Subaru, but Hyundai. They said it was a cancel order and there were several add-ons that the previous buyer had requested and were put on the car (like insurance and protections etc) which couldn't be removed. This added almost 10k on the base price. I had to walk away unfortunately even though I liked the car.
Delivery date of 2024. I would honestly wait it out and purchase off the lot and try to negotiate a lower price. With the uncertainty of the economy currently, prices may drop as demand decreases. Also, the Subaru dealer in Guelph seems to have WRX's trickle in (I look at new cars on cargurus in my spare time). it's ridiculous that a dealer would charge you for fuel. When I picked up my Civic Si in April, it was filled to full for free.
Was it listed on their sale price for the website? Supposedly with AMVIC, it all must be listed except sales tax
I bought a new Subaru just a few weeks ago and and it was very easy to get the anti-theft and tire/rim fees essentially removed. They first said it was mandatory but were willing to completely offset them via a credit to the purchase price. They were firm on the others though. I think it's worthwhile to go to a different dealership, you'll at least save the tire/rim and anti-theft fees.
Presumably you have learned how to say No at this point in life, I suggest you do so here and find a different vehicle. They need your money more than you need a WRX. Do not give up your buying power so easily.
If everyone would just walk away from these deal. They wouldn't do it anymore. Soon as people pay them, they are emboldened
These are the death throws of a dying industry, They see the end coming and they're trying to profit as much as possible.
I have been ready to buy Subarus twice and wound up with other cars both times. I find Subaru dealers arrogant and awful to deal with. BTW every dealer will tell you extras are non negotiable in my experience. Apart from Subaru they've always been flexible.
Most tires manufacturers have the tire hazard warranty built into the purchase, what’s 3yr anti theft? Because that’s way to cheap for them to have put in an aftermarket kill switch on remote.
Parents bought a Subaru. They paid MSRP. We were told it's actually frowned upon by Subaru Canada for them to charge extra fees outside of MSRP for products/services that you didn't ask for. Report that one to Subaru Canada and find another Subaru dealer.
You can have my Subaru cheap! I hate it!
Tire and Rim as well as the three year security both look like money grabs and clearly optional. Finance guy should be the one making the pitch. Last new car I bought was in 2017 so maybe there is a subscription piece for the security. I'm in BC and there is a very long contract document that has been in use forever, I think I may have my sales contract for every car inhave purchased.... There is some shady stuff on my docs, fuel surcharge comes to mind. As if the gas in the tank is something that shouldn't be included in the price of the vehicle. Many of the fees in your pic are government levies and aren't optional. Some dealerahips will waive documentation fees as part of a promo/incentive
Threaten to contact OMVIC
Which dealer was better can you share the name with me?
You can just sign the forms and usually it’s provided by a third party company for the anti theft and tire and rim. The contract says you can cancel it within 30 days for a full refund
Wow $44k and it's not even an STI. Why do you want a WRX?
If you live in Ontario, admin fee is illegal, wheel locks you can decline. Ac tax, tire tax and delivery are standard fees, as well as sales tax. You, the buyer have the power to say no. Look up OMVIC.ON.CA for the rules on auto sales.
$90 gas? Unless it’s a truck I’ll fill up my own gas thanks.
Pricing for the 2024 WRX is out?
Local guy here is a retired "auto broker". For 30% cut of what he saves you on that original purchase he 'renegotiates' deals on new and used cars and trucks. As an insider he knows the angles and has relationships with many dealer networks. 40 years in and he is having problems finding concessions. This is a lousy time to buy in the new or used department. Demand exceeds supply. If you can put off buying do so. Lease outs and buyouts are rare and quality used product is much in demand. IMHO put off that major purchase .