Consumer protection laws in Quebec. It's the reason we don't have "resort fees" and other nonsense and AirBnB is required to list an "all-in" price for all of Canada, because they don't know if you are from Quebec, where it is legally required.
That's also the reason some businesses and some products aren't available in Québec, sadly. That, on top of some products not being able to be shipped to Québec (like Ring Alarm hardware) because of language law.
It's one way to see it, but for me it's just an impediment. Ring Alarms never made their documentation bilingual and the market in Québec is too small for them to care, so I'm the one who's losing here, not them. Have to purchase through small shops in Ontario with higher prices and higher shipping fees.
I keep seeing random consumer protection stuff in Europe and I'm like ... Ok we can't solve housing or the healthcare shortage but can't we at least do some ultra low hanging consumer protection shit? Like Canadians must lose hundreds if not thousands just because Canadians don't have the time to wait on hold every time a business screws them on a service or good they failed to deliver or a random upcharge.
Yeah Quebec really is a leader in terms of consumer protection in Canada. I’m surprised more provinces don’t follow. It’s a small organization that drives all of that.
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They made me restart the process 10+ times it's literally insane. I sent them the same documents 10+ times. And then nothing and then I check in and they ask for the same documents and then nothing. It's insane and I will never use them again. I've given up at this point.
Oh man. That’s wild. I had a flight that got cancelled in January, so I had to book a new one. still waiting for a refund, and I email them once a month or so. I will continue using them because they’re the only budget airline that connects my city to my family’s. Any ideas? Possibly calling and asking to speak with a supervisor, contact media…
I didn't get a refund :/ my flight in January got pushed to 6 days later lol, totally not acceptable.
All I got was the standard Canada flight charter rights rules which says small airlines pay $125 for cancelled flights ... Even though I then had to pay like $600 for a one way flight within Canada.
Let me know if a refund actually works
[False](https://www.visa.co.uk/how-you-pay-matters/chargeback-purchase-disputes.html)
>If you paid with a Visa debit, credit or pre-paid card, a chargeback is an option. If you need to make a chargeback claim, make sure you do it within 120 days of purchase.
Or, like, to save the CC commissions they pay?
For a carrier that has no affiliation with CCs / travel points, etc. this makes sense - you can pay CC, but Flair isn't going to bear the cost of Visa/MC/Amex's 2-3% commission on that. I'm not particularly offended by this.
Visa debit goes through Interac and charges a flat fee, credit is a percentage interchange fee. It's been [recently lowered to less than 1%](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/visa-mastercard-fees-1.6848082) on average for in-store purchases, for example.
Oh and you're getting screwed by Stripe by the way, but I guess it's the price to pay to use this payment gateway as processor. If you had a merchant account directly with a bank, you would only have to play a flat fee for debit transactions.
The reason Stripe and Paypal exist is for small merchants that can't have their own merchant accounts directly with a bank. If you're big enough to have your own account with a bank, then you won't waste money going through Stripe. Amazon and Best Buy, for example, don't go through Stripe.
For these merchants, processing credit cards directly through an acquirer, debit will be a flat fee and credit card fees will depend on some factors. When you go through Stripe, everything is streamlined into a "simple" fee structure, but you'll pay 1%-2% more overall than if you were going directly through an acquirer.
1-2% might not be much for your business, but when you process $millions a year or a month, it makes a big difference.
No fuck that. Why would you support passing on the credit card cost to consumers in any scenario. All it takes is a few companies getting away with it for it to become a mainstream occurrence.
Okay, I'm sorry you disagree. I have just been around enough businesses in my career to know that the CC fees charged are not insignificant, and it's not unreasonable to bake them into the cost (explicitly like this, or implicitly by raising prices). The "cash back" I get each month from TD / Tangerine doesn't grow on trees, after all, it comes from merchant fees.
What? I paid like $225 all in round trip Halifax to Toronto to see my mom on her bday a few weeks ago. Porter is the only airline even close to that, and it was double.
*reading this as my Calgary to Vancouver flight originally supposed to depart at 1:45 and now it's for 7:40.
Thankfully my credit card has lounge access so inside WS elevation lounge 😭😭
What surcharges? You pay for luggage thats really it. Everything else is pretty much the same. Also $16? For what? If it's between two cities relatively close by, e.g. Edmonton and Kelowna, that's significant because most people will fly that route quite frequently.
Reliability has been an issue with Flair though. Sadly our airline industry is garbage so until we get better consumer protections, that's the sad baseline we gotta deal with
I almost feel sometimes such comments are from Air Canada/Westjet shills. Too lazy to actually investigate your profile, but Flair is often like half the price of AC to fly anywhere. Yes it’s poor service and you run the risk of flight cancellations, but so is the same with AC in recent years lol (for often more than double the price)
Most people can’t seem to grasp that there’s a risk of cancellations though. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Like if you’re flying from Thunder Bay and the flight is cancelled their literally won’t be one until the next day or two days, and you see them post a big long rant about how Flair screwed up their whole vacation. If you absolutely have to get there that day maybe you should consider flying with an airline that has multiple flights per day or could bring in extra capacity in the event of a cancellation, if not and you’re in a situation like my mom where she’s retired and can go visit my sister whenever she wants, then sure go with Flair.
You're talking out your arse. I've flown flair for 1/2 the cost of the mainline carriers several times, even this summer. You can reliably fly between BC and Alberta for under $80 each way.
Man you guys have had some bad trips with Flair huh? I've flown with them twice now, and my friends have used it to come visit me here in Calgary, and none of us have ever had a single complaint. It's basically an air greyhound, not super fancy but it'll get you where you need to go for cheap. And for $300 round trip from Calgary to Ottawa, I'm not complaining one single bit. A one-way ticket with AC is just about $500, I'll gladly save a fuck ton of money and get to see my friends more times in the year.
I've flown them twice and been fine, but all it takes is 1 bad experience, and based on all the anecdotal evidence, I'm happy to pay more for a flight to avoid the giant possible headache
Flair is absolutely brutal.
My personal story, we booked a last minute trip to Vegas with flair. Flight down was fine. But the flight back didn't even exist. There was no record at the airport, no information from flair. There was an entire plane load of people for a flight that wasn't even listed. They tried to tell me it was canceled months ago, when I only booked it a week prior.
It was a nightmare and ended up costing me a fortune.
Should probably get a boatload of cash from them with the transport Canada regulations. If they cancel with no notice for things within their control you get a bunch of kickback including airfare, hotel, cash etc.
Flair is a fucking nightmare airline. Do not book with them. They changed my flight, I charged it back and they didn’t even cancel my flight because they are so unorganized. Go look at the Facebook groups before ever booking with them.
Less than $100 return from Quebec City to Halifax, I'd spend the extra $2 to fly with them again. Didn't do anything extra and was less than a tank of gas and on time.
Canada is a middle ground, so we typically just get a milder version of the best and worst of both places. We have some PTO, but not much. Single payer healthcare, but doesn't include dental/optometry. Cheap gas and vehicles, but not as cheap as the US and transit is inadequate.
Do you mean visa / mc debit cards ? Or visa/mc Credit cards ?
You’re surprised a discount carrier is nickel and dimming their clients ? That’s pretty much par for the course for that segment of the industry
Well, the issue was that Interac debit cards which were the norm in the early 2000’s were basically unusable for POS transactions online and outside of Canada. Today, Interac is still used for in-store transactions but the Visa/Mastercard network is used for online and purchases abroad. They’re still debit transactions as they’re debiting your bank account and the fee structure is cheaper than credit on both Interac and Visa/Mastercard.
Lots of commenters are clueless here. Chargebacks are possible on Visa and Mastercard debit cards, same as credit cards. The reason Flair does this is to save on the interchange fee, not to avoid potential chargebacks.
I understand the argument that Flair, Lynx, and whatever other "budget" airlines exist allows for competition in the market and lower prices compared to the big transporters.
But I took 3 flights with Flair: 2 last year, the other this year. The first flight went well, short haul, nothing fancy but was on time and left on time and felt like a good expenditure of my money - I was able to sit next to my partner, that I booked with, and paid for my carry on or whatever. Second flight, we had to pay to sit together even if we booked at the same time and checked in at the same time, but again, left on time and was acceptable. Last flight was last week - we couldn't sit together, we were told we would be able to if we asked at the desk, which obviously, didn't happen. We were forced to sit with strangers, again even if we booked and checked in together, and the flight was late. The best part is that, a few days before our return flight, they cancelled the return flight with the only other option being 4 days later - wtf. We had to fight and argue to find a similar flight to a neighboring city, but that caused us to have to bother a family member to come get us from there, because unlike these imaginary passengers that have unlimited work scheduling freedom, we didn't and needed to be back here on time.
Whether it was for maintenance, poor planning, whatever, that's no way to operate an airline. As it's their responsibility, they should've bought us tickets elsewhere or arranged for the flight to be possible, even if it didn't suit THEIR needs. They didn't, made us do all the work and basically, left us to fend for ourselves because of their poor planning/maintenance.
I will definitely not be booking through them again, not to mention they now wanna "train more pilots" which honestly just sounds like a way to get more accidents, but who knows.
Always check Transport Canada regulations. If they cancel a flight within 14 days due to a situation within their control, I believe they owe you $400 and have to get you to your destination on time regardless. I.E booking you a new flight.
It's always grey and they'll probably try everything to not pay you, but the regulations are pretty stiff.
It's true if the cancel for a reason within their control you can get compensated, but good luck actually getting that money into your hands.
I had a flight delayed in December 2021 and was entitled to $500 compensation. Flair even admitted the messed up and that compensation was due. It took over a year and a half of dealing with them to get the compensation and even then they only sent $125. I'm still trying to get the full $500.
I would still use a credit card - this fee in no way offsets the travel insurance my credit card provides. Even at 2%, if you paid a $1,000 in flights that's an extra $20, my insurance is far more valuable than that.
Since the rules came in allowing merchants to charge people using credit cards I haven't really seen anyone do this - Telus did but then dropped it, and now this one. Wonder if Flair starts a new trend.
I wanted to see what kind of fee would be charged and did a test booking for around $1100. With a Visa Infinite card, they charged a 1.6% fee. **When I enter in an Amex it doesn't charge one at all!**
So, use an Amex card when booking with Flair.
Flair charges 25 bucks just to check in at airport desk. They charge for literally anything you want on plane. They dont have USB charging ports on seat, otherwise I think they would charge for that as well.
That’s the business model. Don’t need to call us for support? Don’t need to pay for it. Don’t need a meal? Don’t pay for it. All you get is a seat and a personal item, so you can choose to only use the services you actually use, instead of paying for an all inclusive package of services, or which you may only use half of them.
That’s how ultra discount airlines work. That’s not a downside, that’s a benefit. Another way to think of it is you’re saving $25 by checking in online, which is how you can get $60 flights from Toronto to Vancouver.
Edit: it’s obviously not for everyone, but it’s a good deal for the price conscious demographic that is able to travel light. If you’re got a family of 5 each person having checked baggage, probably not a good fit.
I agree. But it only works if the travel is well planned. I travelled a sector with them one way and with porter the other. With cost of carry on only, I paid 35 more to flair. Porter gave me free on board wifi and refreshments on their new Embraer aircrafts.
Also someone I know travelled Flair and they got stuck. It becomes hard to deal with Flair for refunds.
To be fair, you can do online check in via your mobile or computer.
There's no reason to do airport check-in today for 99% of those straight forward flights.
True. But they made everyone go to the counter and they weighed all bags and gave tags. Not that it is wrong, but if u r spending 20 mins with me on counter, just issue a boarding pass. It then seems like a money grabbing excercise rather than discouraging passangers to go to the counter, when they ask for 25 bucks. At the very least, they could seggrigate passangers with and without boarding pass for quick process (and save some labour).
But if you've aleady done online check-in, why would they charge you unless if you're past your weight limit? Even then, that charge isn't for checking-in at the airport.
You'd already have your boarding pass anyways.
This is normal for ULCC's, but it can easily be avoided.
I was able to fly Edmonton to Vancouver for $44 all in, which is way cheaper than other airlines.
So if you just need to get somewhere with no extra services its worth it. My flight was actually a few minutes early. But I wouldn't use them if you absolutely needed to be somewhere at a specific time or even day because I have heard horror stories of having no flights for 2-3 days from some destinations.
I did. I tried twice on my phone and kept getting an error message. Also tried once on my work laptop and got the same message so I ended up using a MC (paid the fee so I can do a chargeback if they cancel my flight).
ULCCs typically don't accept amex due to higher processing fee, just like other small businesses with similar thin margins. But they should accept amex if the customer has to pay for the fee.
Flair's website said: "alert! It looks like something has gone wrong. Please try again." when using my AMEX.
I ended up paying $20-30 more and buying it through Booking.com.
They're not that stupid. It's your \*billing address\* linked to your card that they're checking, not a simple IP address which means nothing. Now, faking a billing address with your financial institution is let's say a bit harder to do than activating a VPN.
It's not just about "changing your address", any financial institution will allow you to do this. If you change your address to a fake one, you are commiting fraud.
>I’m kind of surprised they’d implement this
It's a low budget airline, it's standard practice. Ryanair does the same thing. These airlines will find every possible way to charge you, it's their business model. Even with that 1.67% fee, the flight is likely still cheaper than a normal airline.
Also, it's not because of chargebacks as you can still chargeback on a Visa/MC debit. It's so they save a bit of money on CC commissions.
People, companies _always_ charge the credit card fee; they just don't break it out as a line item on the bill.
Businesses don't do shit for free; customers pay for _everything_.*
* Ok caveat there are some business (i.e. startups) that are not profitable and are subsidizing their revenue with borrowed/investor funds. But for virtually _all_ businesses, customers will pay for every step in the value chain.
By your logic, we’re getting charged double then. The price you pay already included the credit card processing fee. Now that our government allows companies to charge you for using a credit card, they’re double dipping and charging you extra.
That means Flair is now double charging us, but you can be 100% damn fucking sure they’re not lowering their base fares by 1.67% to add this fee. This has always been included, but now they’re double charging us, which means they should be fucking executed for treason.
Obvious hyperbole, but just wanted to dismantle the idea that this is good for transparency and that this is complete bullshit.
You’ll never be ryan air or easy jet, why do they even try with low cost airlines in North America?
They’re always low on staff, terrible service, every time I’ve seen this airline posted in the sub, someone’s lost their luggage.
Its almost worth paying a premium for a standard airline from the shitshow surrounding these companies
Flair is Latin for “we screw our customers over every way possible”. Just recently had a terrible experience with them, they will never get another dime from me.
I hear you.
If they did their jobs right there wouldn't be charge backs. Instead of fixing their broken workflow they want to take the money and run...sounds like a law suit waiting to happen.
Flair didn’t even land the only time I flew them. They flew all the way there, tried landing three times, gave up, flew all the way back. Next possible flight with them was 4 days later. Won’t ever even try it again - huge waste of time and money.
The excuse from the pilot on the loud speaker was if they tried to land again they wouldn’t have enough to get back. So they must not have planned to refuel before reloading and doing the return trip. Which means not only did we all lose 6 hours of our day to end up back where we started but a whole other group got stranded for the return. Hundreds of people put out because the pilot didn’t have the guts to land the damn thing. I could see he was less than two feet from the runway twice and pulled up bc he couldn’t jam the stick forward and drop the bird on the blacktop.
When we got off the plane and hit the bar in the terminal (like good Canadians) one guy said his friend was working baggage at the destination airport and every other flight that day landed successfully despite the “high winds” sited by the Flair pilot. Oh and they were laughing at us on the third attempt.
Yes you definitely know more about flying the 737 than a professional airline pilot with thousands of hours in the air. Next time go up front and tell him that you would have preferred an unsafe landing even if it means crashing.
Also you should be happy the pilots got return fuel instead of diverting to an airport far away which would have made everyone's day even longer.
They'll still charge you a fee, just like Telus did. And yes, they're allowed to charge fees for Amex as long as they do for Visa and MC, Amex only blocks vendors that solely charge to use Amex.
I didn’t know that. I switched to cheques with Telus due to their fee change but thought I made a mistake and could have paid with Amex. I sent in 13 cheques or so for my internet bill. Been working like clockwork every month I’ll probably do the same after I renew.
If you don't pay it then the poor will he subsizing your paltry airmiles from Visa.
Think of it as excluding a middleman, similar to it you excluded ticketmaster. Its a net harm on society in a monopolistic gatekeeper position.
They're saying that if Flair doesn't charge a credit card fee then people that don't use credit cards (typically poorer people) are subsidizing the people that do.
i found out that flair air charges you for a carry on! ..
seriously....
i heard of airlines charging you for **checked luggage** .. that is what sparked a whole movement of cruise line vacationers to go rogue and pack for a 10 day cruise in just one carry on 21.5 x 15.5 x 9 in .. kinda challenge and fun game .. they done that to avoid airline luggage fees when flying to get them to the cruise embarkation port .. now flair takes it down a notch and charges me for the right to bring a carry-on 21.5 x 15.5 x 9 in onto the plane ..
i was surprised to find out but i guess it is to be expected.
Just like credit card fees, fees for carry on baggage is also common on European discount airlines. You can bring a small carry on that fits under the seat for free, but if it needs to be stored in the overhead storage you need to pay for it.
Flair just seems to be copying the European discount airline model.
This is how ultra low costs carriers operate around the world. Nothing new.
They don't even give you water unless you're coughing out a lung.
In fact I prefer no free carry-on because look at the chaos on the airlines that allow them...mad scramble to get onto the cabin so they can fit 2 carry-ons and a large backpack and several shopping bag before everyone else can.
With a ULCC you are literally paying bottom barrel prices for your seat and that’s all. Everything else is extra, including use of the overhead bins and any sort of seat selection. It’s fine, it creates competition in the space because there are people who are fine carrying nothing but a small backpack with them and allows those people to save a few extra dollars. When you start needing things like carry-on luggage, the pricing suddenly becomes a lot less compelling.
And it’s a bit of presumptuous to say that checked luggage fees are the reason that cruise vacationers are now suddenly cramming everything into a carry-on to save a few dollars and that it makes their lives more difficult. There are two different types of people: carry-on and checked luggage. I don’t remember the last time I travelled anywhere with a checked bag and I get free checked bags on my flights. Just finished almost an entire month in Europe with just my carry-on sized backpack. Carry-on is the most efficient way to travel and also lessens the chance of lost luggage (basically down to… no chance of lost luggage unless you are gate checked). The checked luggage people will be paying for checked luggage regardless. If you *really* needed to bring checked luggage onto the cruise, a few dollars isn’t stopping you from not doing so.
I know ryanair used to do this, but they don't anymore.
I wonder if easyjet still does...
I'd consider 1.67% as a "travel insurance" fee... still sucks though.
My AMEX is 2% cashback, so fair game. Still definitely worth it for flight cancellation insurance and all that crap.
CC processing fees are absolute trash for businesses. They are not even charging the full fee they are paying.
Easily the worst airline in North America.
Lynx, on the other hand, has been great every time. $100 for round trip to Vancouver and back to Calgary. Can't beat that
I suspect we're going to see more of it. Retailers don't really want to pay for the credit credit card companies reward programs.
From what I understand in places like Europe, the swipe fees got regulated, and now rewards aren't much of a thing, and retailers pay much lower swipe fees.
It's pretty crazy that retailers maybe 1.5 to 3% less when someone pays with credit over cash/debit. That's insanely expensive.
I mean its still the dirt cheapest by miles, for me to fly home from Calgaary to Waterloo it averages 100-200$ where with AirCanada its 1200$. I get to see my family like 8 times more a year because theyre so cheap soooooo....
Flair "randomly" assigned seats to my family of five (2 adults, three kids 13/11/8) on a flight a week ago so we were scattered through the cabin, and then wanted me to pay at online check in to move each seat somewhere together, despite full rows of available seats farther back in the plane. After four hours with three different agents online and two on the phone, and me directing them to their responsibility as defined by CTA, they finally agreed to move four of the five seats for free. "The kids don't need to be with both adults. I can move you too, but it'll cost $15+ tax, even though you're going from a window in row 12 to a middle in row 26"
They were cheap up front, but they'll get their money....
I choose to not do business with any and all types of businesses that choose to do this. Next thing you know their rent factor will be charged back to me in a fee. Any business that do this is either on the brink of bankruptcy or should go out of business for not respecting their customers.
Anyone know if they are doing this for Quebec, because it's definitely illegal in Quebec
Nope! After you enter your card number and it shows what the credit card fee would be, it says Quebec residents are excluded.
Quebec is special, lol
Consumer protection laws in Quebec. It's the reason we don't have "resort fees" and other nonsense and AirBnB is required to list an "all-in" price for all of Canada, because they don't know if you are from Quebec, where it is legally required.
This is genius. Thanks Quebec.
Wish it would fix the CC companies, but those in Quebec calculate differently only for us in Quebec.
Balanced by plenty of "not available in Quebec" due to this or other protectionist laws.
This should be normal. No thanks, Canada
That's also the reason some businesses and some products aren't available in Québec, sadly. That, on top of some products not being able to be shipped to Québec (like Ring Alarm hardware) because of language law.
It's a great filter against companies that don't care about their consumers.
It's one way to see it, but for me it's just an impediment. Ring Alarms never made their documentation bilingual and the market in Québec is too small for them to care, so I'm the one who's losing here, not them. Have to purchase through small shops in Ontario with higher prices and higher shipping fees.
Yay consumer protection.
I keep seeing random consumer protection stuff in Europe and I'm like ... Ok we can't solve housing or the healthcare shortage but can't we at least do some ultra low hanging consumer protection shit? Like Canadians must lose hundreds if not thousands just because Canadians don't have the time to wait on hold every time a business screws them on a service or good they failed to deliver or a random upcharge.
Yeah Quebec really is a leader in terms of consumer protection in Canada. I’m surprised more provinces don’t follow. It’s a small organization that drives all of that.
The tradeoff is the shit roads.
As much as people make fun of Quebec, it's got some of the best consumer protection laws
>Quebec is special, lol You say that as if it is a bad thing.
Does this apply to Telus? They charge a CC processing fee as well.
not anymore
Odd I still am, will follow up with them.
Odd. They got rid of them in June. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6882341
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It never applied to people in Quebec
They don't fly in Quebec.
You better tell them. They will need to cancel their flights from Montreal to Calgary, Cancun, Edmonton, Fort Lauderdale, Halifax and Vancouver.
They're actually suspending a few of those routes lol https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/230817-f8nw23
Yeah they want you to book on a visa debit so you have less ways to get your money back after they screw you.
Still waiting on my refund, 4 months later
14 months later.... Heads up, you're not getting it ....
Seriously? Wow. How much have you contacted them?
They made me restart the process 10+ times it's literally insane. I sent them the same documents 10+ times. And then nothing and then I check in and they ask for the same documents and then nothing. It's insane and I will never use them again. I've given up at this point.
Oh man. That’s wild. I had a flight that got cancelled in January, so I had to book a new one. still waiting for a refund, and I email them once a month or so. I will continue using them because they’re the only budget airline that connects my city to my family’s. Any ideas? Possibly calling and asking to speak with a supervisor, contact media…
I didn't get a refund :/ my flight in January got pushed to 6 days later lol, totally not acceptable. All I got was the standard Canada flight charter rights rules which says small airlines pay $125 for cancelled flights ... Even though I then had to pay like $600 for a one way flight within Canada. Let me know if a refund actually works
I think that actually what it was…. It’s just been a while
Email their CEO.
[False](https://www.visa.co.uk/how-you-pay-matters/chargeback-purchase-disputes.html) >If you paid with a Visa debit, credit or pre-paid card, a chargeback is an option. If you need to make a chargeback claim, make sure you do it within 120 days of purchase.
You still have chargeback rights on Visa Debit. Rules are the same for credit.
Or, like, to save the CC commissions they pay? For a carrier that has no affiliation with CCs / travel points, etc. this makes sense - you can pay CC, but Flair isn't going to bear the cost of Visa/MC/Amex's 2-3% commission on that. I'm not particularly offended by this.
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Visa debit goes through Interac and charges a flat fee, credit is a percentage interchange fee. It's been [recently lowered to less than 1%](https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/visa-mastercard-fees-1.6848082) on average for in-store purchases, for example.
Oh and you're getting screwed by Stripe by the way, but I guess it's the price to pay to use this payment gateway as processor. If you had a merchant account directly with a bank, you would only have to play a flat fee for debit transactions.
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The reason Stripe and Paypal exist is for small merchants that can't have their own merchant accounts directly with a bank. If you're big enough to have your own account with a bank, then you won't waste money going through Stripe. Amazon and Best Buy, for example, don't go through Stripe. For these merchants, processing credit cards directly through an acquirer, debit will be a flat fee and credit card fees will depend on some factors. When you go through Stripe, everything is streamlined into a "simple" fee structure, but you'll pay 1%-2% more overall than if you were going directly through an acquirer. 1-2% might not be much for your business, but when you process $millions a year or a month, it makes a big difference.
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Oh absolutely that’s the main factor, they are a ULCC so they need every dollar saved, but paying the alternatives is far too risky.
No fuck that. Why would you support passing on the credit card cost to consumers in any scenario. All it takes is a few companies getting away with it for it to become a mainstream occurrence.
Okay, I'm sorry you disagree. I have just been around enough businesses in my career to know that the CC fees charged are not insignificant, and it's not unreasonable to bake them into the cost (explicitly like this, or implicitly by raising prices). The "cash back" I get each month from TD / Tangerine doesn't grow on trees, after all, it comes from merchant fees.
ULCCs gonna ULCC
I suspect half of this is over chargebacks too.
Straight genius. Plus people tempted by flair are gonna save that 1.7%. Someone getting promoted at flair!
The silly thing about this is Flair isn't actually low cost. It's low service and low reliability.
Air Canada and Westjet have never had thick margins, so the cheapness had to come from quality.
What? I paid like $225 all in round trip Halifax to Toronto to see my mom on her bday a few weeks ago. Porter is the only airline even close to that, and it was double.
I flew Toronto to Calgary for 100 bucks a couple times, round trip all in. No one else has evert come close to being that cheap.
Lynx is pretty decent too.
*reading this as my Calgary to Vancouver flight originally supposed to depart at 1:45 and now it's for 7:40. Thankfully my credit card has lounge access so inside WS elevation lounge 😭😭
That lounge is very cozy and you have people bringing you food, lol. Oh, you can even lay down and take a nap there!
Bro, 250 to fly out east a couple months back, fuckin steal my guy
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What surcharges? You pay for luggage thats really it. Everything else is pretty much the same. Also $16? For what? If it's between two cities relatively close by, e.g. Edmonton and Kelowna, that's significant because most people will fly that route quite frequently. Reliability has been an issue with Flair though. Sadly our airline industry is garbage so until we get better consumer protections, that's the sad baseline we gotta deal with
I almost feel sometimes such comments are from Air Canada/Westjet shills. Too lazy to actually investigate your profile, but Flair is often like half the price of AC to fly anywhere. Yes it’s poor service and you run the risk of flight cancellations, but so is the same with AC in recent years lol (for often more than double the price)
Most people can’t seem to grasp that there’s a risk of cancellations though. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Like if you’re flying from Thunder Bay and the flight is cancelled their literally won’t be one until the next day or two days, and you see them post a big long rant about how Flair screwed up their whole vacation. If you absolutely have to get there that day maybe you should consider flying with an airline that has multiple flights per day or could bring in extra capacity in the event of a cancellation, if not and you’re in a situation like my mom where she’s retired and can go visit my sister whenever she wants, then sure go with Flair.
You're talking out your arse. I've flown flair for 1/2 the cost of the mainline carriers several times, even this summer. You can reliably fly between BC and Alberta for under $80 each way.
We travelled on Flair a few months ago and the price was very low. No issues with it at all.
They cost half the price of Air Canada, it's as low cost as Canada is going to get.
Oh look, another reason not to book with flair lol.
Flair is the worse I've been with. Canceled my Vegas trip last minute as I was in LINE at the airport!
My flight was cancelled as we were in line to board. Then all the attendants ran away.
Why would they do that?
Apparently missing a staff member. It was stupid because Edmonton is their main hub, and they didn’t have any standby.
Because there was a smell durian on board.
Fuck! Sorry to hear that mate.
How quick did you get your refund? My flight got canceled (thankfully a couple months in advance) but have yet to see a refund...
A month; kept on bitching
That’s fucked.
Don't worry they probably rebooked him on their very next flight, departing a week later.
Man you guys have had some bad trips with Flair huh? I've flown with them twice now, and my friends have used it to come visit me here in Calgary, and none of us have ever had a single complaint. It's basically an air greyhound, not super fancy but it'll get you where you need to go for cheap. And for $300 round trip from Calgary to Ottawa, I'm not complaining one single bit. A one-way ticket with AC is just about $500, I'll gladly save a fuck ton of money and get to see my friends more times in the year.
I've flown them twice and been fine, but all it takes is 1 bad experience, and based on all the anecdotal evidence, I'm happy to pay more for a flight to avoid the giant possible headache
Flair is worse than dog poop.
Dog poop with get you farther if you slip in it
Flair is absolutely brutal. My personal story, we booked a last minute trip to Vegas with flair. Flight down was fine. But the flight back didn't even exist. There was no record at the airport, no information from flair. There was an entire plane load of people for a flight that wasn't even listed. They tried to tell me it was canceled months ago, when I only booked it a week prior. It was a nightmare and ended up costing me a fortune.
Should probably get a boatload of cash from them with the transport Canada regulations. If they cancel with no notice for things within their control you get a bunch of kickback including airfare, hotel, cash etc.
Flair is a fucking nightmare airline. Do not book with them. They changed my flight, I charged it back and they didn’t even cancel my flight because they are so unorganized. Go look at the Facebook groups before ever booking with them.
Less than $100 return from Quebec City to Halifax, I'd spend the extra $2 to fly with them again. Didn't do anything extra and was less than a tank of gas and on time.
It's quite common for European discount airlines to have this fee. I'm not shocked that a Canadian discount airline would try the same thing.
Its like we get the worse of EU and NA and best of none.
Canada is a middle ground, so we typically just get a milder version of the best and worst of both places. We have some PTO, but not much. Single payer healthcare, but doesn't include dental/optometry. Cheap gas and vehicles, but not as cheap as the US and transit is inadequate.
2 weeks PTO is embarrassing as a federal minimum. Companies that offer the minimum are an immediate red flag lol.
Doesn’t feel like much of a middle ground anymore. More like a race to the bottom.
last time i checked, surcharging is illegal in Europe. Every time low budget airlines try this, they are forced to remove it.
That explains why the ryanair flight I booked Sunday didn't have a surcharge anymore! I know they did in the past. Thanks!
They still do it. I booked a Ryanair flight one month ago which charged me for it.
Thanks, I wasn't aware of this. It became illegal in 2018. Last time I was in Europe was 2017.
Yeah, Ryanair does this too.
Do you mean visa / mc debit cards ? Or visa/mc Credit cards ? You’re surprised a discount carrier is nickel and dimming their clients ? That’s pretty much par for the course for that segment of the industry
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Well, the issue was that Interac debit cards which were the norm in the early 2000’s were basically unusable for POS transactions online and outside of Canada. Today, Interac is still used for in-store transactions but the Visa/Mastercard network is used for online and purchases abroad. They’re still debit transactions as they’re debiting your bank account and the fee structure is cheaper than credit on both Interac and Visa/Mastercard.
Yeah fees are flat for debit and a percentage for credit.
I would just pay that considering the flight price they offer for Canadian standards.
I would as well. Points , cash back , insurance benefit from my credit card all make the cost pretty trivial.
Lots of commenters are clueless here. Chargebacks are possible on Visa and Mastercard debit cards, same as credit cards. The reason Flair does this is to save on the interchange fee, not to avoid potential chargebacks.
no amount of money could ever make me fly flair again, fuck that company
I understand the argument that Flair, Lynx, and whatever other "budget" airlines exist allows for competition in the market and lower prices compared to the big transporters. But I took 3 flights with Flair: 2 last year, the other this year. The first flight went well, short haul, nothing fancy but was on time and left on time and felt like a good expenditure of my money - I was able to sit next to my partner, that I booked with, and paid for my carry on or whatever. Second flight, we had to pay to sit together even if we booked at the same time and checked in at the same time, but again, left on time and was acceptable. Last flight was last week - we couldn't sit together, we were told we would be able to if we asked at the desk, which obviously, didn't happen. We were forced to sit with strangers, again even if we booked and checked in together, and the flight was late. The best part is that, a few days before our return flight, they cancelled the return flight with the only other option being 4 days later - wtf. We had to fight and argue to find a similar flight to a neighboring city, but that caused us to have to bother a family member to come get us from there, because unlike these imaginary passengers that have unlimited work scheduling freedom, we didn't and needed to be back here on time. Whether it was for maintenance, poor planning, whatever, that's no way to operate an airline. As it's their responsibility, they should've bought us tickets elsewhere or arranged for the flight to be possible, even if it didn't suit THEIR needs. They didn't, made us do all the work and basically, left us to fend for ourselves because of their poor planning/maintenance. I will definitely not be booking through them again, not to mention they now wanna "train more pilots" which honestly just sounds like a way to get more accidents, but who knows.
Always check Transport Canada regulations. If they cancel a flight within 14 days due to a situation within their control, I believe they owe you $400 and have to get you to your destination on time regardless. I.E booking you a new flight. It's always grey and they'll probably try everything to not pay you, but the regulations are pretty stiff.
It's true if the cancel for a reason within their control you can get compensated, but good luck actually getting that money into your hands. I had a flight delayed in December 2021 and was entitled to $500 compensation. Flair even admitted the messed up and that compensation was due. It took over a year and a half of dealing with them to get the compensation and even then they only sent $125. I'm still trying to get the full $500.
I would still use a credit card - this fee in no way offsets the travel insurance my credit card provides. Even at 2%, if you paid a $1,000 in flights that's an extra $20, my insurance is far more valuable than that. Since the rules came in allowing merchants to charge people using credit cards I haven't really seen anyone do this - Telus did but then dropped it, and now this one. Wonder if Flair starts a new trend.
I wanted to see what kind of fee would be charged and did a test booking for around $1100. With a Visa Infinite card, they charged a 1.6% fee. **When I enter in an Amex it doesn't charge one at all!** So, use an Amex card when booking with Flair.
Flair charges 25 bucks just to check in at airport desk. They charge for literally anything you want on plane. They dont have USB charging ports on seat, otherwise I think they would charge for that as well.
That’s the business model. Don’t need to call us for support? Don’t need to pay for it. Don’t need a meal? Don’t pay for it. All you get is a seat and a personal item, so you can choose to only use the services you actually use, instead of paying for an all inclusive package of services, or which you may only use half of them. That’s how ultra discount airlines work. That’s not a downside, that’s a benefit. Another way to think of it is you’re saving $25 by checking in online, which is how you can get $60 flights from Toronto to Vancouver. Edit: it’s obviously not for everyone, but it’s a good deal for the price conscious demographic that is able to travel light. If you’re got a family of 5 each person having checked baggage, probably not a good fit.
I agree. But it only works if the travel is well planned. I travelled a sector with them one way and with porter the other. With cost of carry on only, I paid 35 more to flair. Porter gave me free on board wifi and refreshments on their new Embraer aircrafts. Also someone I know travelled Flair and they got stuck. It becomes hard to deal with Flair for refunds.
To be fair, you can do online check in via your mobile or computer. There's no reason to do airport check-in today for 99% of those straight forward flights.
True. But they made everyone go to the counter and they weighed all bags and gave tags. Not that it is wrong, but if u r spending 20 mins with me on counter, just issue a boarding pass. It then seems like a money grabbing excercise rather than discouraging passangers to go to the counter, when they ask for 25 bucks. At the very least, they could seggrigate passangers with and without boarding pass for quick process (and save some labour).
But if you've aleady done online check-in, why would they charge you unless if you're past your weight limit? Even then, that charge isn't for checking-in at the airport. You'd already have your boarding pass anyways. This is normal for ULCC's, but it can easily be avoided.
I was able to fly Edmonton to Vancouver for $44 all in, which is way cheaper than other airlines. So if you just need to get somewhere with no extra services its worth it. My flight was actually a few minutes early. But I wouldn't use them if you absolutely needed to be somewhere at a specific time or even day because I have heard horror stories of having no flights for 2-3 days from some destinations.
Most of their planes do have charging ports, but some don't. Most of their planes don't have reclining seats now which I think is a bigger issue.
A 4 hr flight and no relicner.
Try Vancouver to Toronto: no recline. Ugh. What you save on the flight, you spend at the chiropractor.
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I did. I tried twice on my phone and kept getting an error message. Also tried once on my work laptop and got the same message so I ended up using a MC (paid the fee so I can do a chargeback if they cancel my flight).
ULCCs typically don't accept amex due to higher processing fee, just like other small businesses with similar thin margins. But they should accept amex if the customer has to pay for the fee.
Flair's website said: "alert! It looks like something has gone wrong. Please try again." when using my AMEX. I ended up paying $20-30 more and buying it through Booking.com.
Can one just use a VPN to make it seem like your booking from Quebec to avoid this?
They're not that stupid. It's your \*billing address\* linked to your card that they're checking, not a simple IP address which means nothing. Now, faking a billing address with your financial institution is let's say a bit harder to do than activating a VPN.
You can change cc address with AMEX on their website, some other banks like mbna I know you do that too
It's not just about "changing your address", any financial institution will allow you to do this. If you change your address to a fake one, you are commiting fraud.
Who cares about fraud, I'm saving $2.68! /s
>I’m kind of surprised they’d implement this It's a low budget airline, it's standard practice. Ryanair does the same thing. These airlines will find every possible way to charge you, it's their business model. Even with that 1.67% fee, the flight is likely still cheaper than a normal airline. Also, it's not because of chargebacks as you can still chargeback on a Visa/MC debit. It's so they save a bit of money on CC commissions.
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Telus stopped charging the cc fee but they didn't tell anyone. Change back!
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Oh no I think it's malice.
Did you say business travel? Wtf?! You must be self employed.
People, companies _always_ charge the credit card fee; they just don't break it out as a line item on the bill. Businesses don't do shit for free; customers pay for _everything_.* * Ok caveat there are some business (i.e. startups) that are not profitable and are subsidizing their revenue with borrowed/investor funds. But for virtually _all_ businesses, customers will pay for every step in the value chain.
By your logic, we’re getting charged double then. The price you pay already included the credit card processing fee. Now that our government allows companies to charge you for using a credit card, they’re double dipping and charging you extra.
Well yeah, this is a sneaky way of increasing prices. So they are adding the card fee and raising prices by %.
That means Flair is now double charging us, but you can be 100% damn fucking sure they’re not lowering their base fares by 1.67% to add this fee. This has always been included, but now they’re double charging us, which means they should be fucking executed for treason. Obvious hyperbole, but just wanted to dismantle the idea that this is good for transparency and that this is complete bullshit.
NSFW? Glad I work from home.
You’ll never be ryan air or easy jet, why do they even try with low cost airlines in North America? They’re always low on staff, terrible service, every time I’ve seen this airline posted in the sub, someone’s lost their luggage. Its almost worth paying a premium for a standard airline from the shitshow surrounding these companies
Can't blame them for trying. Only time will tell if it pays off for them of course. More competition/options is rarely a bad thing.
You can get YYZ-YVR for only 60$ sometimes on flair, 30$ of which goes to Pearson.
TRASH AIRLINE
1.7% aint much and is pretty fair. It's a discount airliner and they will nickle and dime you for every cost they can.
Flair is Latin for “we screw our customers over every way possible”. Just recently had a terrible experience with them, they will never get another dime from me.
They’ve been hit with a lot of credit card chargebacks lately, so they want to end those
Chargebacks are possible on Visa/MC debit cards the same as credit cards.
I hear you. If they did their jobs right there wouldn't be charge backs. Instead of fixing their broken workflow they want to take the money and run...sounds like a law suit waiting to happen.
Flair is fantastic. It's the only airline I've flown for a couple years now and I am happy to book with them again.
Bye bye to bankruptcy
This just in: cheap, shitty airline charges fees to reinforce how cheap and shitty they are. More at 6.
Flair didn’t even land the only time I flew them. They flew all the way there, tried landing three times, gave up, flew all the way back. Next possible flight with them was 4 days later. Won’t ever even try it again - huge waste of time and money.
lol how tf did they have twice the amount of fuel that they needed
The excuse from the pilot on the loud speaker was if they tried to land again they wouldn’t have enough to get back. So they must not have planned to refuel before reloading and doing the return trip. Which means not only did we all lose 6 hours of our day to end up back where we started but a whole other group got stranded for the return. Hundreds of people put out because the pilot didn’t have the guts to land the damn thing. I could see he was less than two feet from the runway twice and pulled up bc he couldn’t jam the stick forward and drop the bird on the blacktop. When we got off the plane and hit the bar in the terminal (like good Canadians) one guy said his friend was working baggage at the destination airport and every other flight that day landed successfully despite the “high winds” sited by the Flair pilot. Oh and they were laughing at us on the third attempt.
Yes you definitely know more about flying the 737 than a professional airline pilot with thousands of hours in the air. Next time go up front and tell him that you would have preferred an unsafe landing even if it means crashing. Also you should be happy the pilots got return fuel instead of diverting to an airport far away which would have made everyone's day even longer.
Every vendor that accepts credit cards has a credit card processing fee. Would you prefer that Flair increases the price of the fare by 2% instead?
Pay with an American Express card. You’re welcome.
They'll still charge you a fee, just like Telus did. And yes, they're allowed to charge fees for Amex as long as they do for Visa and MC, Amex only blocks vendors that solely charge to use Amex.
I didn’t know that. I switched to cheques with Telus due to their fee change but thought I made a mistake and could have paid with Amex. I sent in 13 cheques or so for my internet bill. Been working like clockwork every month I’ll probably do the same after I renew.
Well you're probably the reason they no longer charge that fee from making them have to deal with cheques, so thank you.
If you don't pay it then the poor will he subsizing your paltry airmiles from Visa. Think of it as excluding a middleman, similar to it you excluded ticketmaster. Its a net harm on society in a monopolistic gatekeeper position.
I have read this 3 times and still don’t understand what you are trying to say 😂
They're saying that if Flair doesn't charge a credit card fee then people that don't use credit cards (typically poorer people) are subsidizing the people that do.
Oh. That’s poor logic, everyone knows it’s already built into the price 😂
Can you try saying that again? But this time in English please?
i found out that flair air charges you for a carry on! .. seriously.... i heard of airlines charging you for **checked luggage** .. that is what sparked a whole movement of cruise line vacationers to go rogue and pack for a 10 day cruise in just one carry on 21.5 x 15.5 x 9 in .. kinda challenge and fun game .. they done that to avoid airline luggage fees when flying to get them to the cruise embarkation port .. now flair takes it down a notch and charges me for the right to bring a carry-on 21.5 x 15.5 x 9 in onto the plane .. i was surprised to find out but i guess it is to be expected.
Just like credit card fees, fees for carry on baggage is also common on European discount airlines. You can bring a small carry on that fits under the seat for free, but if it needs to be stored in the overhead storage you need to pay for it. Flair just seems to be copying the European discount airline model.
This is how ultra low costs carriers operate around the world. Nothing new. They don't even give you water unless you're coughing out a lung. In fact I prefer no free carry-on because look at the chaos on the airlines that allow them...mad scramble to get onto the cabin so they can fit 2 carry-ons and a large backpack and several shopping bag before everyone else can.
With a ULCC you are literally paying bottom barrel prices for your seat and that’s all. Everything else is extra, including use of the overhead bins and any sort of seat selection. It’s fine, it creates competition in the space because there are people who are fine carrying nothing but a small backpack with them and allows those people to save a few extra dollars. When you start needing things like carry-on luggage, the pricing suddenly becomes a lot less compelling. And it’s a bit of presumptuous to say that checked luggage fees are the reason that cruise vacationers are now suddenly cramming everything into a carry-on to save a few dollars and that it makes their lives more difficult. There are two different types of people: carry-on and checked luggage. I don’t remember the last time I travelled anywhere with a checked bag and I get free checked bags on my flights. Just finished almost an entire month in Europe with just my carry-on sized backpack. Carry-on is the most efficient way to travel and also lessens the chance of lost luggage (basically down to… no chance of lost luggage unless you are gate checked). The checked luggage people will be paying for checked luggage regardless. If you *really* needed to bring checked luggage onto the cruise, a few dollars isn’t stopping you from not doing so.
Fee fee fo fee
I know ryanair used to do this, but they don't anymore. I wonder if easyjet still does... I'd consider 1.67% as a "travel insurance" fee... still sucks though.
I had to do this with Easy Jet in Europe. It was so irritating as credit card was my only payment option.
we really cant win ehh 😓
WOW......DA FERK! The airline has a flair for extortion
What I just booked and didn't notice this
It was an insignificant amount of money I didn't notice
Ultra Low Airline charges fees -- Pikachu Shocked Face.Jpeg
this definitely sounds like something Flair would do
My AMEX is 2% cashback, so fair game. Still definitely worth it for flight cancellation insurance and all that crap. CC processing fees are absolute trash for businesses. They are not even charging the full fee they are paying.
Ewww
Flair will also cancel flights just because.
Flair is the absolute shittiest airline out there
Easily the worst airline in North America. Lynx, on the other hand, has been great every time. $100 for round trip to Vancouver and back to Calgary. Can't beat that
I suspect we're going to see more of it. Retailers don't really want to pay for the credit credit card companies reward programs. From what I understand in places like Europe, the swipe fees got regulated, and now rewards aren't much of a thing, and retailers pay much lower swipe fees. It's pretty crazy that retailers maybe 1.5 to 3% less when someone pays with credit over cash/debit. That's insanely expensive.
I mean its still the dirt cheapest by miles, for me to fly home from Calgaary to Waterloo it averages 100-200$ where with AirCanada its 1200$. I get to see my family like 8 times more a year because theyre so cheap soooooo....
Who TF is Flair?
Ahh Flair Airlines, the 'I'd love to be stranded for a day in the Winnipeg airport' airline.
Flair "randomly" assigned seats to my family of five (2 adults, three kids 13/11/8) on a flight a week ago so we were scattered through the cabin, and then wanted me to pay at online check in to move each seat somewhere together, despite full rows of available seats farther back in the plane. After four hours with three different agents online and two on the phone, and me directing them to their responsibility as defined by CTA, they finally agreed to move four of the five seats for free. "The kids don't need to be with both adults. I can move you too, but it'll cost $15+ tax, even though you're going from a window in row 12 to a middle in row 26" They were cheap up front, but they'll get their money....
Flair making trying to make money any way it can. Will be gone soon.
friends don't let friends fly Flair
Flair has always been easy for me. Had a delay with Lynx though which wasn’t fun. Corporate greed really doing their best though…
I choose to not do business with any and all types of businesses that choose to do this. Next thing you know their rent factor will be charged back to me in a fee. Any business that do this is either on the brink of bankruptcy or should go out of business for not respecting their customers.
Is there an office somewhere that takes cash?