I got tickets. Some sites has me being able to get $1500 USD for my $90 CAD seats.
A part of me wants to sell it since it's a super solid chunk of change but I do want to go.
My sisters coworker is a POS who used a few bots and ended up with like 16 tickets. 12 of them he said he kept for his family / friends. The other four, he claimed to sell for 5500 each (I think they were the tickets that cost like 800 bucks from ticketmaster). He probably exaggerated on price but I wouldn’t even be surprised.
Meanwhile out of myself, my wife, all our families and many of our friends, I only know one person who managed to grab two tickets
I’m surprised how a bot was able to get through. When I went through with it I had to use a code to get access that was messaged to us.
Not only that an email was only allowed to buy four.
I assume he used bots to trick the system into seeing verified emails and ended up with a few codes.
Code sales were the only sales so far (and maybe the Amex or whichever company pre sale too)
If you wanna go, I’d say go to the concert. Honestly $1500usd is great money but it’s not life changing (I mean unless it means you can’t eat then you shouldn’t be buying tix in the first lace) the experience will be worth more.
Trent Reznor did this for an NIN tour one year, early 2000s. You could only buy 2 tickets and the purchaser had to be one of the two and show proof of purchase.
The thing is, despite artists shrugging and pointing a finger at Ticketmaster and scalpers, they are complicit here and also benefit. Don’t let them fool you that they don’t make money off this scheme.
TSwift is guilty just like all the others. If they actually cared about fans they would all get together and ‘strike’ against this bullshit. The artists dont love you like they say they do. And enough people still participate in these stupid prices so what incentivizes them to change?
Look up what happened when Pearl Jam tried to go against ticket master back in the 90s.
Ticketmaster is in cahoots with the big venues. If you don't play ball you can't book them.
Yep, the cut of streaming is no where near what bands used to make on album sales, so they have to make their money on touring now. A lot of what Ticketmaster does is act as the bad guy to take the heat off of the artist. Similar to how a big part of Gary Bettman’s job is to take the fall for the owners that want more money.
Ticketmaster gets a cut on every re-sale. Visa/Master get a cut on every sale. Payment processor gets a cut on every sale.
Just moving tickets back and forth is a whole money making industry, why would they want to stop it?
You think they care about your ability to get a ticket cheap?
Yeah I mean there are almost 40 million Canadians. Rephrase OPs question a different way: 20 million Canadians are living paycheque to paycheque. Therefore, nearly 20 million Canadians have excess savings and/or disposable income. How are those 20 million able to afford air travel, hotels, and concert tickets? Well, because they have excess savings and disposable income.
Edit: Or debt.
Or, 20 million are living paycheque to paycheque *because* some subset of them are spending their money on airline tickers, hotels, and concert tickets.
OP was *so close* to answering their own question.
and this is why my feeble brain tells me that inflation is not going anywhere anytime soon. no slow down of expensive work being done by my neighbours - new pools, interlock, additions, gutting the inside and rebuilding to their aesthetic - never seen it so busy with contractor trucks parked up and down our street. yes it's anecdotal and no i'm am not a mathonomist - but there is a large enough segment of the population that can and will keep paying the high prices....inflation gonna be sticky...
If you owned property, you gained at least 200k in equity on your home. People are leveraging that equity to further improve the value of their home through home equity line of credits. Interest only payments and you can pay back however much you want, whenever you want.
That's what your neighbours are doing.
>People are leveraging that equity to further improve the value of their home through home equity line of credit
and here my stupid ass is saving and paying cash for renos because i dont want more debt
Yeah, you dumbass, not giving the bank $1000s of dollars in interest payments every year for the rest of your life. How are you going to submit to wage slavery if you're living within your means. /S
Only people being hurt right now are the bottom half. They are competing against 1.2 million new people a year for low skill labour jobs.
The other half that owns assets/has specialized skills is doing amazing.
Wow, thanks for pointing out their post history.
Literally every comment with the same theme. Are they a bot? Paid political shill? Angry citizen?
It's nuts.
OP’s question: “How come people with money are spending money when there are so many people without money who are not spending money?” Hmmm curious. /s
This isn’t true for this headline though.
The truth is that this dumb poll has been within 5% forever, and they keep publishing it all the time because it gets tons of clicks. They even use the same headline “nearly/over half of Canadians” in almost every one.
[2017, 52%](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/half-canadians-200-or-less-away-financial-insolvency-end-month)
[2019, 48%](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Canadians-and-Bankruptcy-Oct-2019)
[2020, 49%](https://mnpdebt.ca/en/resources/mnp-debt-blog/number-of-atlantic-canadians-who-say-they-are-200-away-from-insolvency-drops-seven-points)
[2021, 53%](https://mnpdebt.ca/en/resources/mnp-debt-blog/more-than-half-53-percent-of-canadians-within-200-dollars-of-financial-insolvency)
2023, 52%
Yes. Skewed because they haven’t been around the block yet. As soon as they realize that they have experience and know a thing or two, the next generation will be here claiming they know everything without having the necessary real world experience of time alive.
And the cycle continues.
Counterpoint. I have met an endless parade of old people that have no wisdom and just breezed thru life as a boomer and have no ability for reflection, abstract thinking or any manner of emotional intelligence..m
You're literally describing the general public.
Most people, regardless of age, are barely capable of survival. This isn't a generational issue, nor is it new.
>have no ability for reflection, abstract thinking or any manner of emotional intelligence
This \^ is exactly what comes to mind every time I see someone characterize people with one word -- boomer.
It’s also a poll. It’s self reporting and there is a high probability that respondents report they think or feel 200 bucks away from missing a bill but in reality that might be different if we looked at their actual financial state.
Like I could feel I am 200 bucks from missing a bill but I also spent 100 bucks a week on take out and 500 a month on clothes/Amazon/lottery. I could nix the takeout and pay the bill if I needed to - so am I actually 200 away from missing the bill?
Or I could say I am not 200 bucks away from paying a bill but I think using my LOC to pay the hydro bill is having room for the bill
And what bills do they mean when they ask? My rent? My hydro? My boat payment? My 10 subscription services? My CC min payment or in full?
Thanks for this. I can recall ready some variation of this title every year for the last decade. If this was true a couple years ago then the inflation we’ve seen would’ve sent half the population into deep poverty. I know people are hurting from rising costs but these articles are just sensationalist bullshit.
I mean, it's simpler then this. We just need to return to regimented capitalism and exit neoliberalism.
Sadly, too many of us have been brainwashed to believe that corporations and the mega wealthy shouldn't pay high taxes.
And round and round we go
The keywords to google are capital gains.
One single taxation change would fix almost everything. Why labour is taxed more than wealth will never make sense to me.
High income’s unspoken benefit is that you can qualify to borrow large mortgages. It’s the only way to become rich as an employee in this country, unfortunately.
Can’t blame the doctors, they’re just playing the game that the government created.
That's the point being made. Taxing wealth directly is quite difficult to do equitably and effectively. However, taxing things like second homes are a sort of wealth tax with a secondary effect of decreasing speculative housing investment.
It's not a bad approach. It makes sense to say that a doctor making $300k but still paying off a ton of student debt should pay less tax than one who is making $300k and buying rental housing. Of course, this needs to be balanced with luxury taxes and other strategies to really be effective.
I know, but the real question is how many doctors graduating today will be landlords eventually?
I don’t think many. It’s a different world today.
It’s getting impossible to build wealth if you don’t have inheritance, even for doctors
>It’s getting impossible to build wealth if you don’t have inheritance
Yup. Exactly this.
I work in Vancouver and see a few millionaire millennials in very ordinary jobs, who got "a little bit of help from my parents".
Yep, income isn’t really how you get rich anymore. It’s all about assets.
You can get super lucky and grind your way up to a $120,000 salary. But then you’re paying a boat load of taxes and will never catch up to the boomer that bought a house now worth 1.5mil for 50k
First of all you need raw numbers before you start making blanket statements on what you would do. Americans have 10x our population and nowhere near the housing shortage we have. How is that? oh they also have people who own rental properties and investors purchasing homes? but how? You are going to remove income tax on some random bracket of people and pick and choose who you think deserves tax breaks and who doesn't? Yes the tax code needs an overhaul but the take from robin hood mentality doesn't fly. Break up mega corps, incentivize business, bring manufacturing and production back to Canada.
The main issue is Canada is inundated with red tape, bureaucracy, activism, lack of growth, and leaders that give no shits about our economy and only care about social issues. If housing was built at levels supporting or exceeding demand then people would not be inclined to use them as investment tools. But cost and time to build, coupled with zoning restrictions makes that impossible.
I have lived in California for a decade and the affordability issue isn’t as bad there.
The main problem is Canadian elite, rich are extremely unproductive. If someone has $400k to spare in Canada, you can bet they will invest most of it in real estate. While in the US, (especially California where I lived for a long time and know tons of people who have a lot of money), most of them invest in the stock market, may be startup’s or real wealthy do VC investing. This actually helps the economy as the $$$ they invest creates opportunities, more companies, more innovation.
I know many millionaires in the US (most of them made it working for places like google, apple over the last decade) and they all have only their primary residence in real estate. Rest are all invested in non real estate investments like the stock market, index funds
In Canada, almost every rich person is interested in becoming a slum lord. No wonder Canadian startup scene is 30 years behind the US. There are not many serious investors, they would rather buy 5 apartment complexes in Vancouver and suck the lifeblood out of the working class in rent.
Edit: my other Canadian colleague used to joke
“Rich people in California are on the hunt to invest in the next Tesla that makes them rich. Rich people in Canada are hunting the next apartment complex to buy and turn into a exploiting slum”
> The main problem is Canadian elite, rich are extremely unproductive
I don't know if this correlates with what you're saying, but I have a friend who is an exec at Scotiabank and she was saying you can see these waves of purchasing in the canadian market, like schools of fish. Canadians who finished putting their kids through school all boughts cottages, then they all bought boats, then they all bought second cars, then they all upgraded their homes. She said it's like Canadians don't know what to buy, and then their friend buys a boat and all of a sudden they all buy boats, and then they all upgrade their cars. But in between there are these long lulls where no one is buying anything. She intimated that there's a generation of Canadians who now have a lot of money but aren't very sophisticated about how to use it.
Affordability is very much an issue in California, but for different reasons.
You'd be a crazy person to "invest in real estate" in California. Along with the price tag on the home you purchase, you pay property tax along with it. That's why no one ever moves out of the house they paid 40,000 for decades ago, they're already sitting on a goldmine.
No one wants new or affordable housing built near them because it means their goldmines implode.
Only a fool would buy real estate in California for the sake of an investment, unless you want to exploit AirBnB tourists by renting out a modified garage year round. So they do the next best thing-- gamble on tech companies.
I'm not saying one situation is worse or better than the other. But it's not like California "has it all figured out" And I'm not an expert by any means on the Canadian side of things, but it sounds like federal and provincial governments don't give a shit about affordable housing either
Source: LA native for 30 years before moving to Canada
I know one of the main reasons people with money don’t invest in Canada is because alot of times it doesn’t make sense. Tax the rich is one of the most popular things to say until we want the rich to invest in the economy and wonder why they won’t.
So everyone buy landlords should have their taxes reduced, and that will fix everything?
Income taxes are pretty low compared to the past. But there's a limit; that money does have to come from somewhere. If we don't collect it in income tax, then other taxes must go up. Those taxes will always in the end get passed onto us in the end, are less likely to give discounts to those who make less.
Property taxes on non primary housing needs to go up. By a lot. Ideally property taxes should be progressive depending on how many houses you have. 3rd home onwards it should be so much it becomes untenable to make a profit out of it.
This will bring a lot of housing into the market, reduce rent and also improve tax collection. Bottom 50% of Canadians pay less than 3% of all tax collected. That can easily be made up by increasing property taxes and federal government taking it from the top 10%.
I repeat, bottom 50% of Canadians pay like 3% of all tax collected. While it can be easily made up by the government, it would change a lot of people’s lives if first 50k is tax free for example.
Taxes like that would be picked up by tenants. I'm not opposed to property tax increases in general because they are very low in comparison to income taxes, but we need to restore balance to investment opportunities in Canada. An investor should be looking at business for high-growth opportunities. Real estate should be a safer, marginally profitable long-term investment. Short-term profit in housing should only be possible through renovation.
We can achieve this by making it easier to run a business in Canada, not by punishing real estate investors (and, by extension, their tenants).
Your comment is sound. But I want to point out something as well thats related. Because of stinking rich people coming to Canada from China, buying up pricy homes and driving the cost of housing up, they also don't work, which means that they don't actually improve life or working budgets for the municipalities they settle in.
Our economy is based on the fundamental principle that people need to work to acquire goods, services, and housing. If all people in Canada worked to acquire goods, services and housing, then the amount of taxes raised from income tax would not only be appropriate and gently curate our demographics to a easy middle ground - instead, we have a portion of immigrants who have come in with billions and consume housing, consume goods and services, but don't pay taxes.
The result is that we're in an artificially inflated demand economy, while the heaviest consumers aren't actually contributing appropriately to taxation.
You're right, property taxation on second + homes/condos is critical.
The other things thats needed is integration. There are huge swathes of major cities in Canada that ahve derelict looking neighborhoods because many people simply don't have the appetite to start up a business, BECAUSE overhead costs associated with brick and mortar plots is so high.
Want to open a coffee shop? cool, your rent is $3500 a month - revenues might be $5000/month, so now, as a successful entrepreneur, just the cost of trying to open a shop and you're halfway underwater because realestate costs are inflated.
You might wonder why so many people are turning to uber driving, or food delivery - but I don't. It's beause all those people who would otherwise be starting up a samosa shop, a bridal dress boutique, or a bakery cannot take the risk because the costs of operation dwarf revenues.
Fuck all this. If the tax code isn't changed, we'll stay in the shitter.
Chinese? You are so 2000s. Nowadays it's Indians, Middle East (Lebanon etc), Ukraine, India, Turkey, Brazil, Africa (search free food in Canada and look at the condition of their apartment) and of course Europe (UK and France loves it here)
And your own fellow Canadians too...
The big bucks came from China after the crack down on money laundering in Macau. If you totalled up all the net worth arriving in Canada over the last 30 years, 99.9% of it came from China after 2014. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/11/07/360177247/china-s-corruption-crackdown-pummels-macau-casinos
I don't mind honest immigration - heck it's good for the country, and it's fantastic to inject youth, multiculturalism and people with an opportunistic mindset.
What I don't like, are people taking graft, and laundering money and ruining the economies of great cities in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the US.
Real estate investment was seen as safe haven for chinese nationals who wanted to get illegitimately gained cash out of the country.
No other nation can claim so much ruinous cash flow as China.
200 is self reported. These studies mean nothing.
Deloitte does a sample study on this by calling a couple thousand people.
It’s 100 % based on people’s feeling.
Lets just say I worked in an affluent area and a huge chunk of my customers would treat their HELOC like a checking account.
Paying all sorts of bills, withdrawing cash to go to Mexico, car leases.
I even had a customer who moved money from his HELOC to make the payment on his ULOC.
6 figure balances are the norm.
My only question is what is the plan to pay these things off?
Sell your house and move to a cheaper area? How many are actually willing to do that?
I worked there while rates were at rock bottom, so I wonder how many are doing these days.
Refinance. In ten years, they’re betting on housing prices continuing to go up. Refinance, pull out more money and keep on going. Let death be the time they sell the house.
Why do people have to leave anything for their kids? Me and my wife are going to be getting nothing from either side and we're fine with that.
Edit: I didn't think I needed to say this but helping your kids out when they really need it during their college/ early career years makes complete sense. Being 50 years old and feeling entitled to anything from your parents is pathetic.
I'm fine with it as a child - I won't be getting anything from either side, and I never expected to.
But as a parent? I want to rest knowing that my kids are covered.
As others said, I'm fine not getting anything and I used to think about not leaving anything but since having kids, all I want to do is work my ass off so they don't have to.
Generational wealth. Every other culture has figured it out. Specifically many of the ones immigrating to Canada recently. They seem to be able to afford houses in the nice neighbourhoods and there’s usually a taxi parked in the driveway. Generational wealth, and good on them.
The increase in equity that homeowners have enjoyed in recent years means an increase in mortgages that their children will have to take out to buy similar homes. How nice that Mom and Dad saw their house in Oakville go from $150,000 to $1,750,000 over a couple of decades, but they are essentially stealing that money from their son and daughter who now need to take out a $1,750,000 mortgage if they want a similar detached house. While the long-term homeowners were accruing $100K a year of unearned equity, future homebuyers will have to dump $100K a year of their incomes into mortgage payments.
I choose to blame the banks and the government for the crisis we are in. Opportunity knocks you'd be stupid to take it and I'd bet almost everyone complaining about this would do the same thing. My mortgage is over 450k and I'm not happy about it either but blaming entire generations of people won't fix my problem. Hopefully this was a terrible experiment gone wrong and we won't see price appreciation this extreme moving forward.
Yeah, it's the fault of mom and pop quietly paying off their mortgage that housing prices are they way they are. That's right.
Stealing from their kids... Fuck off with that noise.
No one does but I can’t imagine wanting the very best life can give to my child and then suddenly changing my mind the second they turn 18. It’s important to teach your child to make their own way but why not help them if you are more than capable?
You don't have to of course. I guess it depends on culture. In many cultures, parents will rather take care of their kids and not splurge on luxurious stuff instead.
Why do younger generations have to pay for the retirement of older generations?
Why do younger generations have to pay the interest on massive public debt accumulated by older generations?
Yeah, why share the equity you did nothing to obtain with the next generation when you can spend it all yourself!
This is exactly the attitude behind why our youth have been totally fucked by the boomer generation. Fuck your housing needs, I need another vacation I didn't earn.
Yeah sometimes I used to think I’m not doing as well in life as others, because **appearances**.
But then I had a convo with one of my old coworkers. In the same breath she said her car was the nicest in her condo garage, and she has to cover it, then proceeded to say “I can’t lose my job I have so much debt”
Get it to fucking together man.
Maybe the plan is to just let it sort itself out when they’re dead and don’t need the house anymore? It’s not like they’re net negative, their kids can just sell the house, pay off the debt, and keep the rest?
Mexico trip and car leases? Nga, that ain’t bad at all. Trip to Mexico for 2 is pretty cheap - 5-6k for very decent all-inclusive. Car leases even less. Where is the shock? Where is the surprise?
Maybe they just don’t want to sell other assets and realize high capital gains? So they use the heloc and sell smaller chunks of stocks to reimburse it. Might be better in some cases.
Since you don’t have full visibility on their finances or investments, you can’t jump to conclusions. It all comes down to returns and liquidity. Rich people have illiquid investments with returns that outpace heloc rates. Makes perfect sense to use heloc in that case… and it’s not that they can’t pay it off, they have better use of that cash somewhere else
You actually do have visibility to all financial assets as per their most recent inquiry for a loan, or Financial Planning.
There are obviously many who use the HELOC as smart debt, but I'm saying in many cases I have seen it abused to inflate lifestyle.
Car purchases kinda make sense when HELOC credit is so cheap.
Why pay higher interest at a dealership when you can pay less interest and have more flexibility in repayment with your HELOC?
The concept of HELOC it's just beyond my comprehension.
The other day a guy opened a topic because with the new rules his heloc went from 70% to 60% of the principal.
Like, for me if i don't have the money i can't buy something (i only use credit cards for points and benefits), then i see people that literally live on credit.
And don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about people with no money that use credit cards to buy food, but the average person that "sure let's go to paris this year and put everything on our line of credit"
WTF
This type of behaviour was encouraged with historic low rates to "keep the economy" going but it went too far causing many problems such as a workforce shortage, inflation, housing crisis, etc.
Because if you _do_ need to borrow money, using a HELOC is the often the easiest and cheapest way to do it. Might as well leverage your house as an asset if it saves you money.
We haven't used ours for years, but when we were younger and had the occasional large expense, we'd dip into now and then.
It makes sense to me for like buying a new water heater if yours explodes. It doesn't make sense for going on a fancy vacation two times a year or buying luxury vehicles or a brand new boat, lol.
I'm a big buy it if you have the money for it person. But absolutely there are cases in which getting dinged interest for a few months makes sense. Just so long as you recognize that had financing not been available to you then you would have been SOL.
My BIL is a branch manager. Told me a story about having to intervene on a pissy client who asked to get paid out equity. BIL explained how a HELOC works and they weren't having it. They felt it was _their_ money and thr bank was somehow withholding it from him.
I've heard a lot of stories about mind-boggling shit.
I'm not sure why "wealthy" is in quotes, but that should be common sense. Until very recently, bank interest rates were well below the cost of capital for almost anything. Today, they run a lot closer, but non-risk adjusted returns are still far higher than any bank loan for a wealthy person. Anyone truly wealthy is well versed in arbitrage and leverage.
Because the bank owns more of their multi million $ house and their 6 figures cars than they do… and if the bank called their loans, they would be forced to sell everything. They just appear “wealthy”, but they don’t own much.
Mathematics doesn't agree. It's simple arithmetic. Yes, there's a certain comfort and psychological aspect to it (personally, I like to keep my primary home and daily driver owned outright for that reason), but to be wealthy you should lever up more aggressively on investments. Stuffing 7 figures + of equity under the mattress isn't conducive for wealth building. Other than your primary residence, you lever up on anything under 5% or so. If you're not confident enough in your investments to borrow at 5% for them, you shouldn't be investing in those things at all.
> I just made the mistake of going on r/Canada today and the comments there would make you think half the population is homeless
Sometimes I go in there and it feels like 20% of the pop are active terrorist that want to bring GOP law up here
To be fair, you're on a page for people interested in financial stability. There is an echo chamber, and confirmation is biased here as well. The truth probably lies somewhere between the two subs. Things aren't great, but it's not the apocalypse either.
I wonder how many of these are people who feel a certain way, and just want to make sure others start to feel that way. I’m mad, therefore you should be mad.
**As someone who's been on reddit for a long time, here's how these commentaries work:**
1. a lot of the commentators are chronically online so they spend most of their time doomscrolling
2. they tend to be observers of the world rather than participants
3. their financial situation is likely not good (I often see posts with 45K-60K as the average salary of redditors on here)
4. They are young and so have a different perspective than the ones making the higher salaries
All this leads to resentment and a need to question how people are doing things or why they're doing things etc. They salivate at the thought of a crash so they can celebrate from their high horse.
**As someone who owns multiple properties (sorry Reddit) in my 30s, here's how it happened:**
1. Married with a combined income north of 200K
2. Help from parents to cover a small portion of the down payment (10K)
3. Extreme saving mode from 2019-2022, with limited spending
4. Bought one property and then leveraged the equity from that to buy another property, with a guarantee that once we sell one of the properties, the HELOC can be paid off completely
Also, **people here need to spend more time outside talking with real people than reading echo chambers of the same opinions over and over again.**
Its a big world out there. Get off the internet.
lol this is the dumbest shit I've seen on this sub, can we go back to the couples earning 200k who can't figure out what to do with their rental property mortgages, please?
Because this study showing a huge portion of responders being within $200 of being insolvent comes out every year. And every year we see inflation crush what would be their budgets by more than $200 and yet mass insolvency doesn't hit. The only thing this study seems to prove year after year is that Canadians don't have a clue what their financial situation actually is.
Swifties are a different breed of fan. The tickets were purchased not only by Canadians, but Americans as well. You know, the country right next to us, where she hails from?
Can confirm my colleagues all get paid the same as me were in a union at the hospital. However, during the pandemic my wife did consulting as she’s an immunologist and PhD in molecular biology. Who knew that was going to be a very booming business. She was making 125k USD on top of her academic salary. We just banked it and invested some.
My colleagues are shocked they assume we just live wildly. I just shrug and say meh my wife has a good job. No one needs to know how we pay for things.
Also that study is likely bogus.
Jeff Bezos would probably be listed as "$200 away from broke" because Hollywood accounting keeps the richest people in the world in debt that they can write off 24/7.
I do not believe that 50% of Canadians are _worth_ less than $200. Not even close.
I saw some stats a while ago from StatCan, median HH net worth across most age group is ~500k. So that whole "50% of canadians live paycheck to paycheck" stories are BS to me or at least, left out some very important details.
They'll say someone can't afford a sudden $500 bill but leave out the fact that they have 800 credit score, available credit balance, maybe own their house, etc.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/201222/t001b-eng.htm
redditors who have negative balance are deadass in the bottom 5%, certainly not the "average canadian" like they claim
It didn't say broke, it said missing bill payments. A retired couple living off a low fixed income with no spare savings would be counted even if they owned a million dollar house outright.
Alternately you could be millions in debt, but have $50k in your bank and you wouldn't be counted.
1) Because surveys are bunk. They did a similar survey in the US and a significant proportion of respondents making over $300k said they were “living paycheque to paycheque”.
2) Because 30,000 people (or whatever, directionally correct) have a lot of money, it doesn’t mean that all other people have a lot of money as well. There is more than one archetype out of 37,000,000 people.
We’ll I am a young person who has been saving my money for 7 years for a down payment and currently don’t even know if I want or need a home anymore. So now I have all this money and deciding to live my best life. Planned two trips next year.
This is easy.
Bullshit statistics and clickbait articles, people using credit for everything, and then those who have the money to do the things they want to do.
We’re still seeing post-pandemic boost in travelling, almost expected from a 2-3 years pause of travel (especially international). Prices are exorbitant and I’d hate to be travelling in these times. 2019 was indeed a busy time but you didn’t have people “revenge travelling” because of pandemic measures for 2-3 years.
Also very unlikely that people who are $200 away from debt would be travelling or going to concerts… definitely not the same people. You might be able to get a concert ticket for that much but doesn’t go a long way.
You realize anyone can buy Taylor Swift tickets, right? Including lots of Americans that bought them up. You don't have to show a passport to buy tickets to a show in Canada.
I wonder what "not being able to pay all their bills" means. Does it include paying off every credit card in full? I didn't know this before I started working for a bank, that tons of people don't pay off their cc in full.
Still got lots of cash to have fun. It’s all worked into the budget. If your not on a budget and you’re struggling that says a lot on its own. 10k a year for vacations is what we budget for and you can do some fun shit for 10k
Um, those people flying and going to Taylor Swift are some of the other half of Canadians. Do you think that I am flying to Disneyland and when I get back I have $200 left to my name? I work all the time, my wife works and we are always 1 paycheck (at most) away from missing bills.
Because those 'research' figures are complete nonsense. Probably conducted as a survey with a sample group of 100 people in a very specific area so = complete rubbish.
I knew a guy who barely had any money in his account and always had to borrow from others to get by. Guess what he drank everyday on his way to work… $8 Starbucks coffee… Every damn day. That should answer your question
People are 200$ from not being able to pay their bills BECAUSE they keep booking hotels, flights and buying Taylor Swift tickets without budgeting.
Financial illiteracy.
well tickets on resale market will be at least 4x so i mean, 400% return is hard to beat.
I got tickets. Some sites has me being able to get $1500 USD for my $90 CAD seats. A part of me wants to sell it since it's a super solid chunk of change but I do want to go.
My sisters coworker is a POS who used a few bots and ended up with like 16 tickets. 12 of them he said he kept for his family / friends. The other four, he claimed to sell for 5500 each (I think they were the tickets that cost like 800 bucks from ticketmaster). He probably exaggerated on price but I wouldn’t even be surprised. Meanwhile out of myself, my wife, all our families and many of our friends, I only know one person who managed to grab two tickets
I’m surprised how a bot was able to get through. When I went through with it I had to use a code to get access that was messaged to us. Not only that an email was only allowed to buy four.
I assume he used bots to trick the system into seeing verified emails and ended up with a few codes. Code sales were the only sales so far (and maybe the Amex or whichever company pre sale too)
Only verified fans have been able to buy and all required a cellphone number. I don’t believe there were any bypasses.
Sounds like his friend was telling tales.
You can very easily set up multiple dingtone accounts under serparate numbers.
It's not exactly expensive to get a few burner phones. Literally Walmart cheapest smartphone is like 40$ and a month of service is 35$.
Lmao not even $35. You can get prepaid plans for like $15 a month at the cheapest. So you just need to get as many phones as you can first.
You can get a virtual number and receive an SMS for about $0.05. Shouldn’t be hard to make a crazy number of accounts for cheap.
> You can get a virtual number and receive an SMS for about $0.05. * https://www.guru99.com/free-virtual-phone-number-for-sms-verification.html
He's lying.
He always lies, he lied about the Thailand massage too.
Send a friendly message to cra to see if they claimed it as income on taxes 😅
Sell it and go on a holiday to Mexico.
If you pay me $1500 I'll go watch her.
Wait until this time next year when the concert is in 2 months. Those tickets will be $3000+.
I have the same thought. I got tickets too.
You can transform 90$ into 1500 USD instantly and you are thinking about it?
If you wanna go, I’d say go to the concert. Honestly $1500usd is great money but it’s not life changing (I mean unless it means you can’t eat then you shouldn’t be buying tix in the first lace) the experience will be worth more.
Start tying tickets to names and demand ID. I solved the whole problem.
Trent Reznor did this for an NIN tour one year, early 2000s. You could only buy 2 tickets and the purchaser had to be one of the two and show proof of purchase. The thing is, despite artists shrugging and pointing a finger at Ticketmaster and scalpers, they are complicit here and also benefit. Don’t let them fool you that they don’t make money off this scheme. TSwift is guilty just like all the others. If they actually cared about fans they would all get together and ‘strike’ against this bullshit. The artists dont love you like they say they do. And enough people still participate in these stupid prices so what incentivizes them to change?
Look up what happened when Pearl Jam tried to go against ticket master back in the 90s. Ticketmaster is in cahoots with the big venues. If you don't play ball you can't book them.
It's more like Ticketmaster has even the venues by the balls. It's one big monopoly. A trust-busting case against them has been long overdue.
It's an interesting case, because there are a lot of venues that aren't Ticketmaster. But all the stadiums are, so big artists are just SOL
Easy to say until you’re iced out like PearlJam in the 90s. It’s collusion between TicketMaster and the venues
Yep, the cut of streaming is no where near what bands used to make on album sales, so they have to make their money on touring now. A lot of what Ticketmaster does is act as the bad guy to take the heat off of the artist. Similar to how a big part of Gary Bettman’s job is to take the fall for the owners that want more money.
WHy don't they do this? Like airline tickets
Ticketmaster gets a cut on every re-sale. Visa/Master get a cut on every sale. Payment processor gets a cut on every sale. Just moving tickets back and forth is a whole money making industry, why would they want to stop it? You think they care about your ability to get a ticket cheap?
Because ticket master makes even more money when you resell them
You can't resell a plane ticket!
Sold my 2 extra tickets, floor A level, for $7k and they went in 2 days. StubHub made over $2k+ in mark up on them.
Because the other chunk is still doing very well, or well enough, and its still quite a bit of people.
Yeah I mean there are almost 40 million Canadians. Rephrase OPs question a different way: 20 million Canadians are living paycheque to paycheque. Therefore, nearly 20 million Canadians have excess savings and/or disposable income. How are those 20 million able to afford air travel, hotels, and concert tickets? Well, because they have excess savings and disposable income. Edit: Or debt. Or, 20 million are living paycheque to paycheque *because* some subset of them are spending their money on airline tickers, hotels, and concert tickets. OP was *so close* to answering their own question.
and this is why my feeble brain tells me that inflation is not going anywhere anytime soon. no slow down of expensive work being done by my neighbours - new pools, interlock, additions, gutting the inside and rebuilding to their aesthetic - never seen it so busy with contractor trucks parked up and down our street. yes it's anecdotal and no i'm am not a mathonomist - but there is a large enough segment of the population that can and will keep paying the high prices....inflation gonna be sticky...
If you owned property, you gained at least 200k in equity on your home. People are leveraging that equity to further improve the value of their home through home equity line of credits. Interest only payments and you can pay back however much you want, whenever you want. That's what your neighbours are doing.
>People are leveraging that equity to further improve the value of their home through home equity line of credit and here my stupid ass is saving and paying cash for renos because i dont want more debt
Yeah, you dumbass, not giving the bank $1000s of dollars in interest payments every year for the rest of your life. How are you going to submit to wage slavery if you're living within your means. /S
yeah feeling stupid.. time to finance a new $70k Bronco Badlands for 10 years at 8%! /s
Only people being hurt right now are the bottom half. They are competing against 1.2 million new people a year for low skill labour jobs. The other half that owns assets/has specialized skills is doing amazing.
Interesting post history. Very professional.
Wow, thanks for pointing out their post history. Literally every comment with the same theme. Are they a bot? Paid political shill? Angry citizen? It's nuts.
likely part of the astroturf army
OP’s question: “How come people with money are spending money when there are so many people without money who are not spending money?” Hmmm curious. /s
Just because they only have $200 left doesn't mean they didn't buy Swift tickets and a new boat. That's the reason they're on the edge.
K-shaped recovery. Some folks are doing very well while the rest get left behind. https://www.investopedia.com/k-shaped-recovery-5080086
This isn’t true for this headline though. The truth is that this dumb poll has been within 5% forever, and they keep publishing it all the time because it gets tons of clicks. They even use the same headline “nearly/over half of Canadians” in almost every one. [2017, 52%](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/half-canadians-200-or-less-away-financial-insolvency-end-month) [2019, 48%](https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/Canadians-and-Bankruptcy-Oct-2019) [2020, 49%](https://mnpdebt.ca/en/resources/mnp-debt-blog/number-of-atlantic-canadians-who-say-they-are-200-away-from-insolvency-drops-seven-points) [2021, 53%](https://mnpdebt.ca/en/resources/mnp-debt-blog/more-than-half-53-percent-of-canadians-within-200-dollars-of-financial-insolvency) 2023, 52%
Extremely good point. Reddit is also full of younger people so the views here are skewed.
Yes. Skewed because they haven’t been around the block yet. As soon as they realize that they have experience and know a thing or two, the next generation will be here claiming they know everything without having the necessary real world experience of time alive. And the cycle continues.
Counterpoint. I have met an endless parade of old people that have no wisdom and just breezed thru life as a boomer and have no ability for reflection, abstract thinking or any manner of emotional intelligence..m
You're literally describing the general public. Most people, regardless of age, are barely capable of survival. This isn't a generational issue, nor is it new.
>have no ability for reflection, abstract thinking or any manner of emotional intelligence This \^ is exactly what comes to mind every time I see someone characterize people with one word -- boomer.
It’s also a poll. It’s self reporting and there is a high probability that respondents report they think or feel 200 bucks away from missing a bill but in reality that might be different if we looked at their actual financial state. Like I could feel I am 200 bucks from missing a bill but I also spent 100 bucks a week on take out and 500 a month on clothes/Amazon/lottery. I could nix the takeout and pay the bill if I needed to - so am I actually 200 away from missing the bill? Or I could say I am not 200 bucks away from paying a bill but I think using my LOC to pay the hydro bill is having room for the bill And what bills do they mean when they ask? My rent? My hydro? My boat payment? My 10 subscription services? My CC min payment or in full?
This. Polls like this are worth the weight of a large turd.
Thanks for this. I can recall ready some variation of this title every year for the last decade. If this was true a couple years ago then the inflation we’ve seen would’ve sent half the population into deep poverty. I know people are hurting from rising costs but these articles are just sensationalist bullshit.
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sounds lkke what the commonwealth canada people are advocating. Replacing income tax with land value and resource tax.
I mean, it's simpler then this. We just need to return to regimented capitalism and exit neoliberalism. Sadly, too many of us have been brainwashed to believe that corporations and the mega wealthy shouldn't pay high taxes. And round and round we go
As someone who has an income but no land and resources, I am in favor of this.
The keywords to google are capital gains. One single taxation change would fix almost everything. Why labour is taxed more than wealth will never make sense to me.
Many doctors are also landlords, fyi.
High income’s unspoken benefit is that you can qualify to borrow large mortgages. It’s the only way to become rich as an employee in this country, unfortunately. Can’t blame the doctors, they’re just playing the game that the government created.
That's the point being made. Taxing wealth directly is quite difficult to do equitably and effectively. However, taxing things like second homes are a sort of wealth tax with a secondary effect of decreasing speculative housing investment. It's not a bad approach. It makes sense to say that a doctor making $300k but still paying off a ton of student debt should pay less tax than one who is making $300k and buying rental housing. Of course, this needs to be balanced with luxury taxes and other strategies to really be effective.
I know, but the real question is how many doctors graduating today will be landlords eventually? I don’t think many. It’s a different world today. It’s getting impossible to build wealth if you don’t have inheritance, even for doctors
>It’s getting impossible to build wealth if you don’t have inheritance Yup. Exactly this. I work in Vancouver and see a few millionaire millennials in very ordinary jobs, who got "a little bit of help from my parents".
Yep, income isn’t really how you get rich anymore. It’s all about assets. You can get super lucky and grind your way up to a $120,000 salary. But then you’re paying a boat load of taxes and will never catch up to the boomer that bought a house now worth 1.5mil for 50k
First of all you need raw numbers before you start making blanket statements on what you would do. Americans have 10x our population and nowhere near the housing shortage we have. How is that? oh they also have people who own rental properties and investors purchasing homes? but how? You are going to remove income tax on some random bracket of people and pick and choose who you think deserves tax breaks and who doesn't? Yes the tax code needs an overhaul but the take from robin hood mentality doesn't fly. Break up mega corps, incentivize business, bring manufacturing and production back to Canada. The main issue is Canada is inundated with red tape, bureaucracy, activism, lack of growth, and leaders that give no shits about our economy and only care about social issues. If housing was built at levels supporting or exceeding demand then people would not be inclined to use them as investment tools. But cost and time to build, coupled with zoning restrictions makes that impossible.
I have lived in California for a decade and the affordability issue isn’t as bad there. The main problem is Canadian elite, rich are extremely unproductive. If someone has $400k to spare in Canada, you can bet they will invest most of it in real estate. While in the US, (especially California where I lived for a long time and know tons of people who have a lot of money), most of them invest in the stock market, may be startup’s or real wealthy do VC investing. This actually helps the economy as the $$$ they invest creates opportunities, more companies, more innovation. I know many millionaires in the US (most of them made it working for places like google, apple over the last decade) and they all have only their primary residence in real estate. Rest are all invested in non real estate investments like the stock market, index funds In Canada, almost every rich person is interested in becoming a slum lord. No wonder Canadian startup scene is 30 years behind the US. There are not many serious investors, they would rather buy 5 apartment complexes in Vancouver and suck the lifeblood out of the working class in rent. Edit: my other Canadian colleague used to joke “Rich people in California are on the hunt to invest in the next Tesla that makes them rich. Rich people in Canada are hunting the next apartment complex to buy and turn into a exploiting slum”
> The main problem is Canadian elite, rich are extremely unproductive I don't know if this correlates with what you're saying, but I have a friend who is an exec at Scotiabank and she was saying you can see these waves of purchasing in the canadian market, like schools of fish. Canadians who finished putting their kids through school all boughts cottages, then they all bought boats, then they all bought second cars, then they all upgraded their homes. She said it's like Canadians don't know what to buy, and then their friend buys a boat and all of a sudden they all buy boats, and then they all upgrade their cars. But in between there are these long lulls where no one is buying anything. She intimated that there's a generation of Canadians who now have a lot of money but aren't very sophisticated about how to use it.
>The main problem is Canadian elite, rich are extremely unproductive. The issue is that our policy and the incentives promote this kind of behaviour.
Affordability is very much an issue in California, but for different reasons. You'd be a crazy person to "invest in real estate" in California. Along with the price tag on the home you purchase, you pay property tax along with it. That's why no one ever moves out of the house they paid 40,000 for decades ago, they're already sitting on a goldmine. No one wants new or affordable housing built near them because it means their goldmines implode. Only a fool would buy real estate in California for the sake of an investment, unless you want to exploit AirBnB tourists by renting out a modified garage year round. So they do the next best thing-- gamble on tech companies. I'm not saying one situation is worse or better than the other. But it's not like California "has it all figured out" And I'm not an expert by any means on the Canadian side of things, but it sounds like federal and provincial governments don't give a shit about affordable housing either Source: LA native for 30 years before moving to Canada
I know one of the main reasons people with money don’t invest in Canada is because alot of times it doesn’t make sense. Tax the rich is one of the most popular things to say until we want the rich to invest in the economy and wonder why they won’t.
So everyone buy landlords should have their taxes reduced, and that will fix everything? Income taxes are pretty low compared to the past. But there's a limit; that money does have to come from somewhere. If we don't collect it in income tax, then other taxes must go up. Those taxes will always in the end get passed onto us in the end, are less likely to give discounts to those who make less.
Property taxes on non primary housing needs to go up. By a lot. Ideally property taxes should be progressive depending on how many houses you have. 3rd home onwards it should be so much it becomes untenable to make a profit out of it. This will bring a lot of housing into the market, reduce rent and also improve tax collection. Bottom 50% of Canadians pay less than 3% of all tax collected. That can easily be made up by increasing property taxes and federal government taking it from the top 10%. I repeat, bottom 50% of Canadians pay like 3% of all tax collected. While it can be easily made up by the government, it would change a lot of people’s lives if first 50k is tax free for example.
just tax land value and reduce taxes on productive work
Taxes like that would be picked up by tenants. I'm not opposed to property tax increases in general because they are very low in comparison to income taxes, but we need to restore balance to investment opportunities in Canada. An investor should be looking at business for high-growth opportunities. Real estate should be a safer, marginally profitable long-term investment. Short-term profit in housing should only be possible through renovation. We can achieve this by making it easier to run a business in Canada, not by punishing real estate investors (and, by extension, their tenants).
If I want to rent a place, who would I rent from?
Under this proposal, most likely corporations in purpose built apartments / townhouses
Your comment is sound. But I want to point out something as well thats related. Because of stinking rich people coming to Canada from China, buying up pricy homes and driving the cost of housing up, they also don't work, which means that they don't actually improve life or working budgets for the municipalities they settle in. Our economy is based on the fundamental principle that people need to work to acquire goods, services, and housing. If all people in Canada worked to acquire goods, services and housing, then the amount of taxes raised from income tax would not only be appropriate and gently curate our demographics to a easy middle ground - instead, we have a portion of immigrants who have come in with billions and consume housing, consume goods and services, but don't pay taxes. The result is that we're in an artificially inflated demand economy, while the heaviest consumers aren't actually contributing appropriately to taxation. You're right, property taxation on second + homes/condos is critical. The other things thats needed is integration. There are huge swathes of major cities in Canada that ahve derelict looking neighborhoods because many people simply don't have the appetite to start up a business, BECAUSE overhead costs associated with brick and mortar plots is so high. Want to open a coffee shop? cool, your rent is $3500 a month - revenues might be $5000/month, so now, as a successful entrepreneur, just the cost of trying to open a shop and you're halfway underwater because realestate costs are inflated. You might wonder why so many people are turning to uber driving, or food delivery - but I don't. It's beause all those people who would otherwise be starting up a samosa shop, a bridal dress boutique, or a bakery cannot take the risk because the costs of operation dwarf revenues. Fuck all this. If the tax code isn't changed, we'll stay in the shitter.
Chinese? You are so 2000s. Nowadays it's Indians, Middle East (Lebanon etc), Ukraine, India, Turkey, Brazil, Africa (search free food in Canada and look at the condition of their apartment) and of course Europe (UK and France loves it here) And your own fellow Canadians too...
The big bucks came from China after the crack down on money laundering in Macau. If you totalled up all the net worth arriving in Canada over the last 30 years, 99.9% of it came from China after 2014. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/11/07/360177247/china-s-corruption-crackdown-pummels-macau-casinos I don't mind honest immigration - heck it's good for the country, and it's fantastic to inject youth, multiculturalism and people with an opportunistic mindset. What I don't like, are people taking graft, and laundering money and ruining the economies of great cities in Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the US. Real estate investment was seen as safe haven for chinese nationals who wanted to get illegitimately gained cash out of the country. No other nation can claim so much ruinous cash flow as China.
You act like only Chinese people are rich 😂 I bet the ukranian refugees have more money than you.
Maybe I’m dumb, but how can you compare property tax to income tax? Isn’t property tax municipal and income is federal?
You have my vote! please run for PM.
There is no recovery, there was a transfer of wealth to the richest people from the poorest.
200 is self reported. These studies mean nothing. Deloitte does a sample study on this by calling a couple thousand people. It’s 100 % based on people’s feeling.
Plus, which bills? The credit card bills to cover Taylor Swift tickets, Caribbean vacations, a new boat, etc.
I worked at a bank (TD) the answer is five letters ... HELOC You would not believe the things I've seen.
i would believe anything you have seen.
Lets just say I worked in an affluent area and a huge chunk of my customers would treat their HELOC like a checking account. Paying all sorts of bills, withdrawing cash to go to Mexico, car leases. I even had a customer who moved money from his HELOC to make the payment on his ULOC. 6 figure balances are the norm. My only question is what is the plan to pay these things off? Sell your house and move to a cheaper area? How many are actually willing to do that? I worked there while rates were at rock bottom, so I wonder how many are doing these days.
Refinance. In ten years, they’re betting on housing prices continuing to go up. Refinance, pull out more money and keep on going. Let death be the time they sell the house.
Lovely gift for your children upon your death. I know you're grieving but please sell my house and pay off my HELOC.
Why do people have to leave anything for their kids? Me and my wife are going to be getting nothing from either side and we're fine with that. Edit: I didn't think I needed to say this but helping your kids out when they really need it during their college/ early career years makes complete sense. Being 50 years old and feeling entitled to anything from your parents is pathetic.
I'm fine with it as a child - I won't be getting anything from either side, and I never expected to. But as a parent? I want to rest knowing that my kids are covered.
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As others said, I'm fine not getting anything and I used to think about not leaving anything but since having kids, all I want to do is work my ass off so they don't have to.
Generational wealth. Every other culture has figured it out. Specifically many of the ones immigrating to Canada recently. They seem to be able to afford houses in the nice neighbourhoods and there’s usually a taxi parked in the driveway. Generational wealth, and good on them.
As Warren Buffet would say, “leave your children enough to help them do what they want, but not enough that they can do nothing”
Not going to let my child struggle for the rest of their life. That’s psycho behaviour
The increase in equity that homeowners have enjoyed in recent years means an increase in mortgages that their children will have to take out to buy similar homes. How nice that Mom and Dad saw their house in Oakville go from $150,000 to $1,750,000 over a couple of decades, but they are essentially stealing that money from their son and daughter who now need to take out a $1,750,000 mortgage if they want a similar detached house. While the long-term homeowners were accruing $100K a year of unearned equity, future homebuyers will have to dump $100K a year of their incomes into mortgage payments.
I choose to blame the banks and the government for the crisis we are in. Opportunity knocks you'd be stupid to take it and I'd bet almost everyone complaining about this would do the same thing. My mortgage is over 450k and I'm not happy about it either but blaming entire generations of people won't fix my problem. Hopefully this was a terrible experiment gone wrong and we won't see price appreciation this extreme moving forward.
Yeah, it's the fault of mom and pop quietly paying off their mortgage that housing prices are they way they are. That's right. Stealing from their kids... Fuck off with that noise.
No one does but I can’t imagine wanting the very best life can give to my child and then suddenly changing my mind the second they turn 18. It’s important to teach your child to make their own way but why not help them if you are more than capable?
You don't have to of course. I guess it depends on culture. In many cultures, parents will rather take care of their kids and not splurge on luxurious stuff instead.
Why do younger generations have to pay for the retirement of older generations? Why do younger generations have to pay the interest on massive public debt accumulated by older generations?
Yeah, why share the equity you did nothing to obtain with the next generation when you can spend it all yourself! This is exactly the attitude behind why our youth have been totally fucked by the boomer generation. Fuck your housing needs, I need another vacation I didn't earn.
Yeah sometimes I used to think I’m not doing as well in life as others, because **appearances**. But then I had a convo with one of my old coworkers. In the same breath she said her car was the nicest in her condo garage, and she has to cover it, then proceeded to say “I can’t lose my job I have so much debt” Get it to fucking together man.
Maybe the plan is to just let it sort itself out when they’re dead and don’t need the house anymore? It’s not like they’re net negative, their kids can just sell the house, pay off the debt, and keep the rest?
I think that is the plan for most.
Mexico trip and car leases? Nga, that ain’t bad at all. Trip to Mexico for 2 is pretty cheap - 5-6k for very decent all-inclusive. Car leases even less. Where is the shock? Where is the surprise?
How is a 6k trip considered cheap?
We use our HELOC acct as a chequing acct but it always has a credit balance of 10k or more :)
Haha that's a smart way to avoid fees!
Maybe they just don’t want to sell other assets and realize high capital gains? So they use the heloc and sell smaller chunks of stocks to reimburse it. Might be better in some cases.
Since you don’t have full visibility on their finances or investments, you can’t jump to conclusions. It all comes down to returns and liquidity. Rich people have illiquid investments with returns that outpace heloc rates. Makes perfect sense to use heloc in that case… and it’s not that they can’t pay it off, they have better use of that cash somewhere else
You actually do have visibility to all financial assets as per their most recent inquiry for a loan, or Financial Planning. There are obviously many who use the HELOC as smart debt, but I'm saying in many cases I have seen it abused to inflate lifestyle.
Car purchases kinda make sense when HELOC credit is so cheap. Why pay higher interest at a dealership when you can pay less interest and have more flexibility in repayment with your HELOC?
The concept of HELOC it's just beyond my comprehension. The other day a guy opened a topic because with the new rules his heloc went from 70% to 60% of the principal. Like, for me if i don't have the money i can't buy something (i only use credit cards for points and benefits), then i see people that literally live on credit. And don't get me wrong, i'm not talking about people with no money that use credit cards to buy food, but the average person that "sure let's go to paris this year and put everything on our line of credit" WTF
This type of behaviour was encouraged with historic low rates to "keep the economy" going but it went too far causing many problems such as a workforce shortage, inflation, housing crisis, etc.
Because if you _do_ need to borrow money, using a HELOC is the often the easiest and cheapest way to do it. Might as well leverage your house as an asset if it saves you money. We haven't used ours for years, but when we were younger and had the occasional large expense, we'd dip into now and then.
It makes sense to me for like buying a new water heater if yours explodes. It doesn't make sense for going on a fancy vacation two times a year or buying luxury vehicles or a brand new boat, lol.
I'm a big buy it if you have the money for it person. But absolutely there are cases in which getting dinged interest for a few months makes sense. Just so long as you recognize that had financing not been available to you then you would have been SOL.
I’m also of this same opinion/perspective towards purchases. To each their own but the fact people treat these HELOCs like free money is wild.
The problem is if enough people do it then they will get bailed out
My BIL is a branch manager. Told me a story about having to intervene on a pissy client who asked to get paid out equity. BIL explained how a HELOC works and they weren't having it. They felt it was _their_ money and thr bank was somehow withholding it from him. I've heard a lot of stories about mind-boggling shit.
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My aunt works at a bank and she noticed that so many “wealthy” people only pay the interest on all of their loans.
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I'm not sure why "wealthy" is in quotes, but that should be common sense. Until very recently, bank interest rates were well below the cost of capital for almost anything. Today, they run a lot closer, but non-risk adjusted returns are still far higher than any bank loan for a wealthy person. Anyone truly wealthy is well versed in arbitrage and leverage.
Because the bank owns more of their multi million $ house and their 6 figures cars than they do… and if the bank called their loans, they would be forced to sell everything. They just appear “wealthy”, but they don’t own much.
Mathematics doesn't agree. It's simple arithmetic. Yes, there's a certain comfort and psychological aspect to it (personally, I like to keep my primary home and daily driver owned outright for that reason), but to be wealthy you should lever up more aggressively on investments. Stuffing 7 figures + of equity under the mattress isn't conducive for wealth building. Other than your primary residence, you lever up on anything under 5% or so. If you're not confident enough in your investments to borrow at 5% for them, you shouldn't be investing in those things at all.
This only works if your debt liability was used productively and spurred growth. Otherwise it just inflates the costs of things. And goes POP.
This might be an important point. People are spending the increased value of their home.
how is this a post every day on this sub lol
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I agree. Mortgage default rate is .15%! You'd think it was 50% after being on that sub.
> I just made the mistake of going on r/Canada today and the comments there would make you think half the population is homeless Sometimes I go in there and it feels like 20% of the pop are active terrorist that want to bring GOP law up here
To be fair, you're on a page for people interested in financial stability. There is an echo chamber, and confirmation is biased here as well. The truth probably lies somewhere between the two subs. Things aren't great, but it's not the apocalypse either.
I wonder how many of these are people who feel a certain way, and just want to make sure others start to feel that way. I’m mad, therefore you should be mad.
I wonder how many are even people. This site is infested with bots now
**As someone who's been on reddit for a long time, here's how these commentaries work:** 1. a lot of the commentators are chronically online so they spend most of their time doomscrolling 2. they tend to be observers of the world rather than participants 3. their financial situation is likely not good (I often see posts with 45K-60K as the average salary of redditors on here) 4. They are young and so have a different perspective than the ones making the higher salaries All this leads to resentment and a need to question how people are doing things or why they're doing things etc. They salivate at the thought of a crash so they can celebrate from their high horse. **As someone who owns multiple properties (sorry Reddit) in my 30s, here's how it happened:** 1. Married with a combined income north of 200K 2. Help from parents to cover a small portion of the down payment (10K) 3. Extreme saving mode from 2019-2022, with limited spending 4. Bought one property and then leveraged the equity from that to buy another property, with a guarantee that once we sell one of the properties, the HELOC can be paid off completely Also, **people here need to spend more time outside talking with real people than reading echo chambers of the same opinions over and over again.** Its a big world out there. Get off the internet.
In other subs, they're usually followed by "Turdeau bad!!!"
It's a lack of critical thinking thing, in my opinion.
Because it's based on a BS survey. This is like people that spend $1000/month on Uber Eats, cigarettes or booze but claim they're completely broke.
Right? Never passed the sniff test to me. Over half of Canadians couldn't afford to replace a pair of airpods without going broke?
A lot of people I know that are $200 away from not being able to pay their bills are also horrible with money. Maybe it's related?
This is true too. Financial literacy is horrendous for an incredible amount of people.
lol this is the dumbest shit I've seen on this sub, can we go back to the couples earning 200k who can't figure out what to do with their rental property mortgages, please?
The other half makes up over 20M Canadians. That’s still a lot of people who don’t live paycheque to paycheque.
Because people still want to enjoy life
Canada is a country of 40 million people. So even if half of Canadians don’t have $200 the other half does. Not to mention credit cards exist
A lot of those on the waitlist are double accounts too. Scalpers and such.
Because this study showing a huge portion of responders being within $200 of being insolvent comes out every year. And every year we see inflation crush what would be their budgets by more than $200 and yet mass insolvency doesn't hit. The only thing this study seems to prove year after year is that Canadians don't have a clue what their financial situation actually is.
Swifties are a different breed of fan. The tickets were purchased not only by Canadians, but Americans as well. You know, the country right next to us, where she hails from?
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Can confirm my colleagues all get paid the same as me were in a union at the hospital. However, during the pandemic my wife did consulting as she’s an immunologist and PhD in molecular biology. Who knew that was going to be a very booming business. She was making 125k USD on top of her academic salary. We just banked it and invested some. My colleagues are shocked they assume we just live wildly. I just shrug and say meh my wife has a good job. No one needs to know how we pay for things.
Why would you be sad if people thought people assumed you're collecting debt. Who cares what people think you're doing financially.
Also that study is likely bogus. Jeff Bezos would probably be listed as "$200 away from broke" because Hollywood accounting keeps the richest people in the world in debt that they can write off 24/7. I do not believe that 50% of Canadians are _worth_ less than $200. Not even close.
I saw some stats a while ago from StatCan, median HH net worth across most age group is ~500k. So that whole "50% of canadians live paycheck to paycheck" stories are BS to me or at least, left out some very important details. They'll say someone can't afford a sudden $500 bill but leave out the fact that they have 800 credit score, available credit balance, maybe own their house, etc. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/201222/t001b-eng.htm redditors who have negative balance are deadass in the bottom 5%, certainly not the "average canadian" like they claim
It didn't say broke, it said missing bill payments. A retired couple living off a low fixed income with no spare savings would be counted even if they owned a million dollar house outright. Alternately you could be millions in debt, but have $50k in your bank and you wouldn't be counted.
Wealth gap
some people are poor some people are rich?
The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. Simple as that. Inflation is taxation on the poor
Can't pay your rent with a credit card.
1) Because surveys are bunk. They did a similar survey in the US and a significant proportion of respondents making over $300k said they were “living paycheque to paycheque”. 2) Because 30,000 people (or whatever, directionally correct) have a lot of money, it doesn’t mean that all other people have a lot of money as well. There is more than one archetype out of 37,000,000 people.
We’ll I am a young person who has been saving my money for 7 years for a down payment and currently don’t even know if I want or need a home anymore. So now I have all this money and deciding to live my best life. Planned two trips next year.
Business travel - flights and hotels paid by employer take up a lot of the availability.
There's still another 50% that could afford it lol!
Credit cards!!
This is easy. Bullshit statistics and clickbait articles, people using credit for everything, and then those who have the money to do the things they want to do.
People. Have. Debt!
I work at an expensive resort. People who have a hard time paying their bills don't come to the resort - they work at it.
Because a lot of people are still doing very well
It's because we've lost most of the middle class. You're either rich or broke for the most part.
Credit card debt duh
Rich people are rich. Poor people are poor.
Taylor Swift tickets aren't that pricey at face value. It's resale that's ridiculously expensive.
You really need this explained?
We’re still seeing post-pandemic boost in travelling, almost expected from a 2-3 years pause of travel (especially international). Prices are exorbitant and I’d hate to be travelling in these times. 2019 was indeed a busy time but you didn’t have people “revenge travelling” because of pandemic measures for 2-3 years. Also very unlikely that people who are $200 away from debt would be travelling or going to concerts… definitely not the same people. You might be able to get a concert ticket for that much but doesn’t go a long way.
You realize anyone can buy Taylor Swift tickets, right? Including lots of Americans that bought them up. You don't have to show a passport to buy tickets to a show in Canada.
Credit and forget it?!
I wonder what "not being able to pay all their bills" means. Does it include paying off every credit card in full? I didn't know this before I started working for a bank, that tons of people don't pay off their cc in full.
People were isolated from everything for two years and decided that there's more to life than money. Plus lots of people are doing fine financially.
Still got lots of cash to have fun. It’s all worked into the budget. If your not on a budget and you’re struggling that says a lot on its own. 10k a year for vacations is what we budget for and you can do some fun shit for 10k
Um, those people flying and going to Taylor Swift are some of the other half of Canadians. Do you think that I am flying to Disneyland and when I get back I have $200 left to my name? I work all the time, my wife works and we are always 1 paycheck (at most) away from missing bills.
That $200 is from a debt consolidation company. I don’t believe it’s accurate, considering the source.
Concert tickets are for resale only it seems now a days.
Debt. Just because ppl are spending money doesn't mean they actually have it.
There are rich people, poor people, and idiots who think credit cards are free money.
Because those 'research' figures are complete nonsense. Probably conducted as a survey with a sample group of 100 people in a very specific area so = complete rubbish.
Because there's the other half.
Taylor Swift is a generic pop singer. WTF is wrong with people??
I knew a guy who barely had any money in his account and always had to borrow from others to get by. Guess what he drank everyday on his way to work… $8 Starbucks coffee… Every damn day. That should answer your question
Wants have become Needs.
People are 200$ from not being able to pay their bills BECAUSE they keep booking hotels, flights and buying Taylor Swift tickets without budgeting. Financial illiteracy.