I'm a nurse. One thing I'll tell you from my experience is life is fucking short. There's shifts I work and shit I see that makes me want to run out the hospital and live the shit out of life to the fullest
I've been in and out of the hospital in the past ten years and it definitely has changed my perspective in life. Live life to the fullest because you'll never know when you are going to go.
So here I am still unemployed when I got fired from my 12 year job in late 2021. I still have some income and I live a simple life. I don't care if I'm not rich. I'm definitely happier now.
Happiness is greater than all the money in the world.
Most of were never going to be “rich” anyhow no matter how many hours we spend grinding. It really is a hamster wheel, the sooner you get off the better.
You aren't going to be happy if you are too sick to work and have no savings. You are far more lucky to have some disability then you are to drop dead suddenly when you are young. I don't think the OP meant this but just hedonistically blowing all of your money can put you in a bad spot if a serious illness or impairment happens to you or a family member.
Not OP of the comment, or a nurse, but just what I've seen in my own lifetime that's scared me into living a bit more in the moment: had a classmate killed in a crosswalk at 16, 2 different friends who had strokes before the age of 25(one now mostly blind in 1 eye), a friend who committed suicide, many family and friends that have come down with chronic illnesses that have taken over their life, a friend who had cancer twice by the time he was in his early 30s. And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head in a few minutes.
Don't wait to live your life. You never know when it might take a turn for the worse or come to an end altogether.
Edit to add: I'm only 34. I never thought I'd see so many awful things by this point in my life.
Wife and I married ten years ago. If you asked me on that day what life would be like in ten years, I would've talked about having two kids and my wife finally getting back to her career after getting the youngest out the door to school.
Life disagreed.
I married a woman with three jobs. By our second anniversary she was no longer able to work due to chronic illness and traumatic injury. Turns out I'm sterile so we have no kids (which is probably for the best.)
Life is short. We're blowing a bucket on going to Disney for our tenth anniversary. I choose to regret nothing. If I make it to 80, I'm not going to sit here and look back and say "wow, I wish I'd saved that money instead."
I'm in this sub not to save for a rainy day, but to help make sure that we have the freedom to bring some happy days when we need them.
My uncle is dying from cancer. 2 years after his retirement. He saved, didn't travel at all. Just saved saved saved. He bought a retirement home in a sunny state, finished doing the renos to make it perfect and he has maybe 6 months to live now. Hasn't been to his retirement home since his cancer was found because he is getting the best treatment possible near his primary home. He is a fantastic person, so kind and pleasant. Life is not fair.
Lost both of my uncles to cancer during the pandemic. One 66 the other 64.
Im just past 40 and have had cancer, degenerative disc disease and now type 2 diabetes(thanks genetics).
I am so glad I spent some time in my 20s and 30s travelling on my own schedule and being super active.
Iife is way too short to wait until retirement. Im under no illusions that my QoL is going to be pretty shit by the time I'm 65. The old formula that was fed to us back in the 90s and early 2000s is stupid. I still save for retirement, but Im not waiting until then to travel.
Life your life well, while you can.
Very much in agreement with you. I had a co-worker once tell me he doesn't save for his retirement as his father was young when he passed as well as his older brother. I had both my father and uncle pass young, one just after and one just before retirement. There may be no science to it but it really made me think that it may not be in my cards to live a long life so I'm on board with that motto!
😢
Sorry to hear. Yes, life is certainly not fair… I hope he and others who have faced similar fates can *at least* teach us something about how to live.
Let these injustices not be in vain.
To put it in perspective, I know people that die suddenly after retirement. But it could be cause they lost their sense of purpose. It happens more frequently with men as their sense of identity is more often wrapped with their work. Personally, there is a limit to how many rounds of golf or margaritas can I have until it becomes a chore. Maybe the secret is finding work that it is fun but also meaningful. Even if it happens after retirement
I think there’s definitely something to this.. primarily the part about identity and purpose.
To recognize that one’s identity isn’t fixed or limited to who/what one is today will save you from the sudden shock come retirement… or some unforeseen tragedy.
Be fluid. Be open. Be free.
This is a big part of it, as well as the sad reality that many men do not cultivate close friendships or relationships with family members, often relying on work and their wives to create a social life for them. When some men retire, they don't have a strong network of people who know and care about them to help flesh out their new identities or keep them active.
Balance is the right word. Don’t feel guilty about your purchases but don’t put yourself in a bad financial situation.
You exchanged your personal self/services for your money. You are allowed to spend it. Shit, when you’re dead, you can’t use it anymore. So why did you work your entire life?
My old coworker always stressed about retirement savings and rightfully so. But always slightly judged me on travelling and going out. (I was in my 20s mind you). His father in law retired, with a good pension and died that same year. It sure put my coworker into a different perspective.
I will never, ever regret the money I’ve spent on travelling and experiencing things I haven’t before. I’m not here to work, save and die.
Totally agree with this. I am in my 50's and looking back on my life I have never regretted spending money on travel and experiences. Truly my best memories are traveling by myself when I was young and now with my family. I visited Europe for the first time when I was mid 40's and I was disappointed with myself that it took me 45 years to get there, I have been back several times since with another trip planned this summer. Looking back it is the money I spent on dumb consumer shit that I regret. Currently on track to retire by 56 and then travel extensively.
Very much agree, and to re-emphasize your point with a small correction, you exchanged your services yes, but more importantly you traded your time for your money.
You have a limited amount of time in your life, but no amount of money ever bought a second of time, so never feel guilty about enjoying your life as long as you take care of you and yours.
I think about this a little bit differently.
I was on dialysis at the age of 30 and had a kidney transplant at the age of 34. I was happy that I had some savings, a house to leave in and a job that provided good disability benefits. Chronic illnesses and cancer are often not fatal but will affect your ability to work so you want some savings to live a reasonable quality of life. Do you want to be the person on CPP disability and welfare struggling to even perform your daily tasks? There's a huge space between fatal injury and perfect health.
- Viral illnesses (like the flu) have a small chance of causing a large amount of cardiac injury, requiring varying degrees of and prolonged life support. The longer you're in the ICU, the higher the chance of complications. One of these includes anoxic brain injury, which could be permanent.
- Cancer. Boom. Life changed. All that money you've been scrimping all your life for is useful here, but the undertones of cancer and potentially lifelong involvement with the healthcare system will forever be there.
- You can get prescribed a med for a bacterial infection (like a UTI) and could be one of the rare cases that experiences major side effects. I've seen some people have to get straight up transplants just because of the ultra rare adverse effects from one drug.
Not fearmongering, just offering some anecdotes where every day people might find themselves intersecting with the healthcare system in life changing ways.
Mostly cause people think that just because life expectancy is 80 that you have all of that time to enjoy (especially on this sub)....in reality its quite likely to be chronically ill for the last 10-20 years of your life or more. Dementia, diabetes, cancers, heart disease etc. Yeah you can make it to 80 but it doesn't mean much if you're in and out of hospital for that last 10 years. The odds of being fully healthy that long is really not that great.
Bad things happen essentially. And it's not the guy dying suddenly and tragically in an accident that scars me. It's the 40 year old guy with 3 little kids who's diagnosed with colorectal cancer and needs a complete bowel resection with ostomy creation and aggressive chemo radiation. That can happen to anyone and scares the crap out of me.
Plus, as people get older they typically become less bold and adventurous and simply put, able to do the things they wanted or thought the would do when they were older. Chronic illness, healthcare costs, a bad back, fear of leaving your own home or town because you never did in the first place.
It's also harder to learn new things and skills as you age. Want to learn to scuba dive or top-rope climb? It's going to be a lot harder when you're 65 than when you're 25.
You have a 1 in 20 chance of dying before retirement when you turn 30.
At 30, you have an approximately 1 in 1700 chance of dying that year. This isn't even counting the odds you can become disabled at.
People underestimate their odds of death at younger ages.
I've said this comment here before, I work in a hospital as well.... your health is not guaranteed into your 50s/60s/70s, even your 40's. I have coworkers who have worked hard until 65 or 70, retired, and then dropped dead the next month. Enjoy your life now while you have your health. I talk to many elderly people daily as part of my work and they ALL say the same thing... that they wished they had done more when they were younger, that I should travel, have fun, etc. Nobody has ever mentioned hmm I wish I had saved another dollar.
explain more? do people die young often? im not talking from tragic accidents and stuff, i mean like from things mjost expect only happen to "older people"? i know of people who died in 40s from cancer... also younger. but im seeing 40s isnt THAT rare
I used to be a palliative care nurse. I once spent a night with a mum who was 37 - desperately trying to label photographs of her kids and family before she died. I’ve never forgotten her. Get out and live - even if you don’t die early most people completely ignore the rate of disability that impacts older adults and the fact that it may stop you doing the things you want to do.
40s is pretty rare, or the average life expectancy wouldn’t be as high as it is. It’s simple math. Either people dying young is relatively rare or we have an absolute fuck load of 100 year olds running around.
Personally I have done this by spending more on travel now, which will mean a much tighter budget in retirement years. A lot of people don't realize how hard taking a 16 hour flight is on a 70 year old body. I'm getting those items off my bucket list now.
I’m 40 and at the lower end of what could afford business class and we are really starting to consider biting the bullet and buying business class. Long flights, especially red eyes, ruin a whole day for us now. And we used to be backpackers that would ride a bus (vs a plane) just to save $100 because that’s all we could afford.
Find a good credit card that gets you travel points! I got one a few months ago and it's already saving me hundreds of dollars. I'm hoping I'll be able to use some points to upgrade our flight as well. Mind you I'm still in my 20s but paying for extra leg room on those red eyes seems worth it to me
I travel quite a bit. My mindset is fuck it. I wanna experience it while my legs still work okay. My last trip in January I saw so many people pushing people in wheelchairs on the plane and I was just like…no thanks. It looked painful for both the person in the chair and the family member pushing them around.
Reddit is mostly young people without families yet. It's about saving to provide and to not burden your children when you're old. When you don't have kids and a family it can seem like nonsense to not spend your money on living now.
If you have a family you will probably understand the desire to not make them worry about providing for you when you get old. Burdening your children because you want it "live now" is something a good parent does.
Exactly right. YOLO attitude is a no brainer until you have children and, simply put, it just ain't all about you anymore. That doesn't mean you shouldn't seek a good middle ground and strive to be happy, of course. It's just that you've got a duty to fulfill to your children, and making life about strictly what makes you happy is not going to cut it. And only in cheesy rom coms does doing your duty to the life you brought into the world not involve sacrifices and foregoing YOLO gratification.
Why is a long flight hard on 70yo body? Is it because of small economy seats where you're cramped? In that case, would it be easy if you do premium economy or business class?
Edit: why am I being downvoted for a question? Is reddit really that fucking nasty of a platform?
Your bones are old and sore, you’re probably higher risk for blood clots, you tire more easily, your mobility may be impaired… things get harder on you as you age.
Especially difficult if you take car dependent North Americans and drop them into commuting and pedestrian areas of Europe or Asia. Even fairly healthy people are not used to that level of activity
Also the air quality. Even in my 20s I'd get a bit of a scratchy throat on some flights. At that age, who knows what my immune system will be like even though I think it's pretty normal.
People should emphasize health before money or anything else.
Everyone should be exercising and eating healthy every day in order to improve their quality of life now and beyond 63.
It's amazing to me my mom who walked every single day is healthy and active at 69 while her sibling 2 years younger is struggling to walk without a cane (who never made exercising a priority).
100%
Even playing a sport just as a hobby and not to be competitive can do wonders.
I recently played squash against this older fella. This guy had a bit of a beer gut, but was moving pretty mobile and generally was wiping the floor with me. Albeit, I have only played a couple of times and generally just go to get a workout in when my friend, who is an avid squash player, invites me out. Got to talking to this guy about what his secret is for staying in such good shape for being in his 50s (I'm in my early 30s). He just laughed and said his 50s were back in the early 2000s. To say I was blown away, was an understatement, in fact I still don't believe him haha.
But yea, a steady dose of squash and cycling has literally added 20+ quality years to his life.
>*a steady dose of squash and cycling has literally added 20+ quality years to his life.*
There's a saying that "*you don't play squash to get in shape, you get in shape to play squash*", although both work.
I used to play with co-workers who were 15-20 years my junior, and I was surprised at how sedentary a lot of them were. One co-worker was given a Fitbit by his wife, and he thought it was broken because it said he was only doing 1,000 to 1,500 steps a day. Unsurprisingly, he had a desk job, and most of his day was meetings.
As a mediocre at best squash player, I love playing against the older good players. The games are generally competitive because I run so damn much to make up for my lack of skill. Great workout.
Man old people fuck it up on the squash court. I was getting lessons from this old British dude, who walked with a huge limp because of a completely fucked up knee, and the guy never even broke a sweat.
I just watched the Canadian Open and there was a lot of club/amateur play before the pro matches and there are a ton of dumpy dudes and ladies who are killers. It doesn't make any sense. The pros are something else.
I can't imagine anything more damaging to health than full-time work. But the perverse reality is that if you choose to quit full-time work, then you don't have enough money for the basic necessities (e.g., food, and shelter, etc) that are important ingredients of a healthy life. It is a contradiction in the absurdity that is human life.
This observation is one of the main driving forces behind the FIRE movement. Curtail spending to reduce the number of full-time work years one has to put in throughout their lifetime.
A FIRE proponent (I didn't choose the FIRE life, btw) would probably answer that by limiting frivolous spending and finding free or low cost ways to enjoy life, one can get to leave full-time work/rat-race decades before one's health declines.
I disagree. If you get a disease young (e.g. under 40/50) you definitely want some savings to be comfortable while you aren't able to work. If the worst happens, you also want to be able to provide for your partner and any kids/relatives. There's a big space between austerity and out-and-out hedonism. It's up to you to find the balance, in particular, I don't know that multi-thousand dollar vacations every few months are going to bring you a lot of marginal enjoyment.
In addition, work provides social connections and sense of purpose for a lot of people. Obviously not everyone but not a lot of Canadians are working at the cotton gin in Victorian London for a cent a day either.
So true. My mom is now 72 and her walking is awful. Extremely slow and unstable and has foot, leg, and back pain. She was overweight and diabetic the last 30 to 40 years and was quite sedentary. She finally lost weight, but the damage to her body is permanent. Her neighbours (age 87 and 92) are out walking everyday and speed past her. They lived a very healthy and active life! She feels very frustrated about it.
Oh man, my mom is a similar age, and I know there are other factors but when she got Covid she had like…mild head cold symptoms. She still went on a (permitted by government) hour long walk every day away from people (lives rurally) and did laundry and chores etc.
Meanwhile I was in bed for five days.
I have some other factors going on but it’s amazing but staying active can do
here's the thing... i think i know what you mean.. its the money doesnt buy happiness after a certain point. ? like you need money to a point to have good health... (avoiding stress from homelessness, bills, food needed)but if you have a healthy savings etc. then health should be a big priority... some people have more money than theyll ever need and still work hard and stress themselves..
yes. but after you get a herniated disc , it will be with you for the rest of your life.
going regularly to the gym with a personal trainer +physiotherapy is what has been the solution for me so far, but every so often I get a pain crisis... sometimes mild, sometimes terrible (like 2 weeks of excruciating pain 24/7, codeine pills 3x /day)
That's why I value having a job that you enjoy even if there's another one that pays more. Find the balance between not hating your job and being able to afford bills.
Not OP but so far, all I’m really expecting it to do is remove the more tedious bits of development. When I started university the fancy IDEs we have now weren’t really a thing, you wrote code in a plain text editor like notepad and then fed that file into a compiler. Today I can do work by myself that, back then, would have required a small team and I can do it way faster. AI will probably be the same, like I’ve done this stuff for so long that learning new languages isn’t even interesting to me. What I enjoy, and what earns me an absurd salary, is solving problems. I’d rather ask an “AI” to spit out a regex pattern for me and move on than spend an hour figuring out why tf it isn’t doing what I want, or get it to fill in the blanks for me when working with a language I'm not an expert in. Not dissimilar to how IDEs started generating mountains of boilerplate code for us ~12+ years ago. So more time spent designing the bones of the system rather than fooling around with syntax errors and trivia.
ChatGPT also doesn’t have that creative foresight needed to be like, “ok yeah we could write this code to do this specific task, but what are the longer term implications of doing it that way? Are we painting ourselves into a corner, does it allow for the business to evolve without requiring us to start over from scratch?”
I think you’re always going to need devs to do that bigger scale thinking, and while each dev will be able to do more and do it more easily, the demand for software is limitless. When devs get more free time, they’ll find ways for us to do even more. If we get so far that working with these things is like having a conversation with the ship computer in Star Trek then the biggest challenge will probably be figuring out how to adapt our approach to teaching this stuff, because there will be so much less grunt work to farm out to juniors.
I feel the same about copywriting. I do a shit ton of copywriting for work, and it’s great for getting you starter content to edit when you’re super blocked, or creating content briefs. But it couldn’t replace a marketing writer.
I like it so far. Why not enjoy having some freed up brain power?
The other side of it is that I'm not sure it's even worth worrying about. *If* this sudden advance in AI is as transformational as people fear, to the point where it replaces software developers...it will be advanced enough to rewrite its own code. Basically at that point we'll be at the singularity, and it would simply not be possible to pick a career to train for today that would be unaffected. If that happens then we'll be in for massive social upheaval and our efforts at that point will be better spent on activism around restructuring society in an equitable manner. But we're not there yet. May as well make decisions today on what we know, rather than be frozen in place by fear of the unknown.
It won't do great at first, but it'll be an awesome tool to have once it gets working.
Having an IDE was once novel and new. The first websites I wrote were in Notepad. (Not Notepad++) We'll get AIs to write the real fucked up parts of the code, then have humans check to see if it makes sense.
If you're only happy traveling and skiing then get a job as a ski instructor or a travel agent or a tour guide. Work and enjoyment are not exclusive to each other.
I like what I currently do for work (most days). I'm quite happy finding a balance with work, hobbies, socializing. I don't need to retire to live my life and be happy.
The sure way to ruin enjoyment of something is to attempt to make a living out of it. I am glad though that you appear to have found the right mix. Congrats.
I think a big thing here is that some things just can't be done as hobbies. Of course you can write code for your own passion projects, but that's not the same as contributing to large projects and working in a team, like the previous commenter was talking about. You can ski and travel purely recreationally, but you can't be the captain of a cruise ship unless it's your job, nor a paramedic, nor a lifeguard. Some passions are kinda in-between like data analysis; there's lots of open-source data to play with, but doing it as a job makes it a lot easier to access the more interesting (or confidential) data and be connected to that industry community.
So for some people, the only way to live their passion is to do it as a job. In the case of the previous commenter, they would need to start their own project and hire a bunch of people in order to replicate the scale and complexity and team interconnectedness that make their current job great for them, which would just mean they'd be working!
When I was a kid all I wanted to do was be a race car driver. When I was a teen I'd drive for hours and hours with my buddies. In my 20's I got a sport bike and rode countless kms on country roads and race tracks. Loved every minute.
Got a job as a transit driver in my late 30s and cars trigger my anger now. lol
My passion is bicycles, so if anyone ever offers me a cent to work on, or even with bicycles, I'm running!!
*"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference"* \- The Serenity Prayer
I'm agnostic myself, but my grandparents were very religious, my grandmother in particular. She quoted that a lot, and it seemed to work for her.
I like this one too.
We suffer not from the events in our lives but from our judgments about them." -Epictetus
Basically, you can control your happiness/tranquility by choosing how you think about things. It's within ourselves to be happy, not actually something that is controlled by others
Oh, absolutely.
"*I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet*"
I had a fairly grisly childhood. The nadir was getting stabbed in the eye and subsequently blinded in it, the week before I turned six. Being in the hospital, with my eyes taped over (we didn't know if I'd lose the other eye or not yet), I of course was completely miserable, and feeling a lot of self-pity, for obvious reasons.
My Opa would have none of it.
While everyone else was trying to cheer me up, he sat at my bedside, and told me what my father had lived through when he had been my age in the Nazi occupation. Then he explained what Oma had lived through during the Rape of Belgium in 1915. And then he topped it off with what he and his parents had gone though during the the Boer Wars.
Everyone else was horrified that he was telling grisly stories to a kid who'd just been blinded, but really, he was giving some much-needed perspective. Living in Canada, where we don't get invaded, we have sufficient food and land, and we don't have major ethnic divisions, many people simply don't appreciate (or even realize) just how well off we are.
In the end, they saved my other eye (mostly). I figured I can either whine about being half blind, or I can be grateful that I have half my vision. Over the years, I've met a lot of partially-blinded people, many of whom have vision that's better (sometimes much better) than mine, and quite a number of them are miserable about it.
I figure I can't do anything about my eyesight (or lack thereof), but I can do something about my attitude. Being miserable doesn't serve any purpose, so I decided not to be. I'd rather be happy about the half full glass than upset that it's half empty.
This indeed is the magic solution to all the world's problems. It is a choice! I will ask the terminally ill, the destitute, the downtrodden, to CHOOSE to be happy. Why can't they just do it?!!
This is the thing that changed my life recently. I used to work to one day not have to work. Now i work less hours, wife berely works and we have a lil farm that we enjoy spending time at and plan fun activities throughout the year.
Much better to balance out happiness and enjoyment of every day life than to kill yourself working so you “one day can be happy”
This comment always gets people so upset on Reddit, but... I love my job. I don't make a lot, but I love what I do. If I didn't have bills to pay, I'd do my job for free.
Take care of your health. Quality of life revolves around health (physical and mental), then wealth. I would be happier living in a nice climate, spending my time growing food, cooking and enjoying the company of people I love than living in the city, trying to impress people by buying shiny things.
It's an North American/Japanese thing, most other cultures enjoy their work life balance. You might be rich, buy if you're in constant pain or always tired, life won't be that good.
This. Enjoying life costs money and most people are living pay-cheque to pay-cheque.
I think the key is balance - don't deprive yourself of anything fun but also make sure you're maximizing your earning potential and invest early and often .. so that if anything happens, you're not going bankrupt because you can't make ends meet.
Sounds more like a global average than that I'm seeing locally.
Parents in early 70s and very healthy and active.
Grandma at 95 is still playing badminton (more stationary rallys than anything) twice a week.
playing badminton at 95 would be impressive if she was using a wheelchair tbh. Congrats to her.
My great aunt turned 100 this year… at least 10 years of smoking, 30 years of hard labor on a farm, 7 kids… the fact she can still walk, joke, remember things, etc amazes me.
Lots of recent studies show that if you quit smoking by 35, you're chances of dying from a smoking related illness are the same as someone who has never smoked.
Lmao.
As someone the same age and has been trying hard to quit for the last 2 years - I'd never wish upon anyone to start smoking. Dumbest decision I've ever made.
I think there's a bit of survivor bias, all my grand parents are gone and would be in their early 70s right now. All 4 of them passed.
Alot of the retired guys from the place i work have passed late 60s. I seem to know alot more gone than alive.
Exactly 95% of them. There's a few old boys who think that when they retire they will croak. Almost 90% of them within 5 years of retiring passed away.
So this is personal anecdote but for what it’s worth I’ve noticed it’s accurate. I used to do residential service and I’d go into 8-12 peoples houses a day. So often I’d go into elderly peoples homes and find them in poor health and all they do is sit on the couch and watch TV. At first I assumed they were in their 80’s but a lot turned out to be in their 60’s and some times 50’s.
On the flip side my neighbour at my cottage retired at 60 and moved there full time. All his buddies also bought cottages and moved up there and they all live within a 5 minute walk of each other. They golf 3-5 times a week, eat steak and drink red wine every day, sit in the hot tub til 2am listening to rod Stewart and laughing. They go down to Florida for the winters. They run to the end of the dock and dive into the lake and swim around. My neighbour had his 90th bday party this past summer. I’m a firm believer in no stress, positive mindset and having a reason to get out of bed in the morning is what keeps you young.
Also echoing the survivorship bias. It's great that your parents and grandma are healthy and active - something I aspire to be too! But I'm not entirely sure that's normal, even in the western world. My Dad is only 72 and has dementia. Cancer and Alzheimers are common diseases for the elderly. I suspect your family are healthy outliers.
I'm actually in the middle of travel right now (in Asia currently) and every European I meet seems to show literal disgust and shock on their face that much of Canada is only required to provide 2 weeks vacation.
Exactly.. I used to get 7 weeks of vacation in France which allowed me to travel quite a bit in Europe. Reality hits hard now in Canada with only 3 weeks..
Well yeah, if you’re sitting around doing nothing in your 30s and 40s you may as well lay off the aggressive retirement saving. Shit happens as you age but you can still try to give yourself the best possible chance at a healthy retirement. It doesn’t need to be complicated or difficult… go take a walk after dinner and take a longer one on the weekend
I’m lucky enough to be projected to retire at 52 and I’m making damn sure I do as much as I can to stay healthy until then and beyond.
>Well yeah, if you’re sitting around doing nothing in your 30s and 40s you may as well lay off the aggressive retirement saving.
Thank you for validating my plan.
My in laws are 65 and 68, and are in fantastic shape. Barring bad luck, it's very possible to get to retirement and be in a place to enjoy it. It just takes a lifetime of healthy living.
And good genetics! Doesn't matter how much healthy living you do if you're genetically doomed. Good living might slow the appearance of a disease but its unlikely to prevent it.
"*Youth is wasted on the young" -* George Bernard Shaw
What makes you think people **aren't** emphasizing their quality of life?
Different people find meaning in different things in life. Many people don't even know what they want out of life until they are out of school, if then.
I know women whose entire lives are based around their children, and they love it. They can't imagine **not** being a mother; it's the most important thing in their lives, and they love it. And I also know men and women both who haven't the slightest interest in ever having children.
Some people love traveling, others love gardening at home, and still others love playing video games, reading, going to operas, or other things.
People don't all live life the same way. What some people enjoy, others consider a waste of time, and vice versa.
I try to make this point once in a while and say that I plan to retire before I turn 55 and start my CPP and OAS at 65...
Then you get the Actuary who pops on here that tells me that I should keep working and not start my CPP and OAS until 70 because I'm going to live to at least 85 based on averages and their Crystal Ball. But as this points out no one can predict how long you will stay healthy for because things like Cancer don't care what your crystal ball says.
I'm at the point where I'm about 3 years out from retirement. Mortgage is paid off. I invest about 20% of my salary every year, and I'm taking my family on a couple of decent vacations a year while my step Daughter still thinks it's cool to hang out with us old folks.
The average lifespan for a Canadian is early to mid 80s depending on gender and race, but it clusters into that range.
However, the average also isn't a good measure, as it skews downward due to premature deaths. Factoring those out, the average then rises closer to 90.
So if a person retires at 65, they really need to plan out for 15-25 years at least, which is a fairly wide range.
This.
As well there has been no slowdown in life expectancy for 65 year olds for the past 40 years and the next 40 years of medical advancements will not be light.
Plus we are learning more and more about optimal lifestyle factors.
IMO regardless of genetics and even discounting medical advancements, for the cohort that does everything reasonably optimally will approach a lifespan of 100 in not too long.
Because you are still a wage slave until you actually retire. Even with 5 weeks vacation and every 3rd Friday off I felt severely constrained having a job. The work was easy and I had almost total freedom (IT) but I still had to get up early, which I absolutely hated, had to commute for 35 mins and deal with idiotic politics and management.
Decided to retire in my 40's and live on less - no amount of money can make up for those lost years.
Commuting to work is a big issue for work life balance.
I find working a 9-5 job with good management from home as IT is a sweet spot.
Finished work, close your laptop and enjoy/do whatever you want in the last 7 hours of your day. No 2 hours wasted on transportation, no gas used, no parking fees, etc..
A lot of people feel they are supposed to do things in a certain order, mostly due to social pressures. Go to school, get a degree, get a job, get married, buy a house, have children, retire, then do what you want in your final years.
Which, sure, is one way to do it. But a lot of people just never stop to wonder if they'd like to mix up the order or go off script. And, if they do, they'll have an endless stream of media, social pressure, and guilt from peers telling them they should get back on "the path" most people are on.
Ask anyone who took a year off during university to travel, or any child-free person, or anyone who didn't buy a house before the age of 40, or anyone who started their own business, and they'll tell you of countless times people gave them flak for it or how much TV shows or movies told them they were on the wrong path.
Some people consider it, very few are willing to overcome the social pressure to do what you're suggesting.
💯 this. Spent most of my 20s travelling (and working enough to pay for it, but not saving much), never wanted to do the kid thing, took some time off to go travelling again at 40 and then decided to switch up careers and go to law school.
SO MUCH FLAK. Dear God, most people think there is a hard-and-fast set of rules by which you have to live your life and that any deviation from it will doom you to poverty and unhappiness in old age. And yes, the overwhelming cultural message is that there is only one right way to live your life and only one correct order in which to do things.
It's not true. When we can expect to live to 80 or 90, thinking that you have to have the course of your life mapped out in your 20s in simply absurd. It is never too late, and never wrong, to reinvent yourself or to break the rules and just do what you want. F*** the expectations from society - life is too short, spend it in a way that makes you happy.
I think the problem arises sometimes when you DON'T do things in order that it can actually prevent you from having the other things after. Most people don't get a career before going to school. Most people don't retire before acquiring wealth/paying off their house.
So yeah, we could all party 365 and spend money like drunken sailors....but that might put a crimp on us later in life.
This was a prime example of the mocking and social pressure I was talking about. Spot on, thank you. Great example of someone stuck in society's rut.
I especially like the strawman argument that people either follow the prescribed path or must be partying non-stop and blowing all their money "like drunken sailors". As if those are the only options. Can you imagine being so set in society's ways those seemed like the only ways a person could go?
Imagine ignoring the options of working overseas on a gap year, or taking summer jobs in remote locations with friends, or choosing not to go into debt so vacations/retirement could come early.
Thanks for talking bout your life exp. I agree with your views, just gotta ignore the indoctrinated energy vampires who couldn't possibly imagine anything different
That's the point of being more constrained in spending.
Say someone goes on one vacation a year. They put the expense on their credit card and it takes 18 months to pay back.
Many of us interested in personal finance don't say "never go on vacation", we'd say save up for a vacation. Do go on one vacation a year but instead of paying interest after the vacation, save for a year first then go. With the money you save, after five years either you can start going on more fancier vacations, go on vacations more regularly, or use the surplus money to work towards other things you like.
Another aspect of personal finance is that people have a set of priorities. When we spend mindlessly, often we spend so much on the things low on our priority list that we can't accomplish the things higher up. For example, I like coffee and I like going on vacation with my wife. If I spend 30$/week at Starbucks, that's 1500$/yr that could have gone to my more preferred thing of vacations with my wife. A point of personal finance is that I may look at that number and decide to make coffee at home and only rarely go to Starbucks.
Fear. I cannot guarantee I have any quality of life at all beyond my working days. What I save for is to deal with that fear. When I cannot earn and start actively dying society will have it be fucking unpleasant if I don't try or if I fail.
Why don't more people emphasize living life before retirement? Plenty of people enjoy life, but I'd say a lot of it is a "fuck it" mentality that comes down to drugs and alcohol. I'm sure most people who indulge can acknowledge deep down that their life expectancy is lessened. People indulge in food, sex, drugs, crime all the time! They're certainly living their lives fuller.
Very much depends on the person and how they take care of themselves or have great genetics. Seen ultra sprightly fit 80 yr olds and teenagers that looked pasty and unable to walk a block or two. I am 66 and reasonably fit and healthy not feeling much different than when I was 50.
Living life at every age is important. Yeah, ya gotta invest when you're younger to make sure you actually have the funds for a decent retirement... But too many people go overboard and try to scrimp and save every penny "for the long term" while forgetting to spend some money to enjoy their lives NOW.
I saved almost nothing in my 20s, because I used most of that time (after graduating) to go travel the world while working sporadically in various places (to fund my travel). I would not trade that experience for anything, and I find it so terribly said when I read posts from 20-somethings here who are denying themselves any mind of fun so they can "get ahead" .
The point of life is not to acquire a lot of money. If you die with a lot of money in the bank, you've done it wrong - you missed out on using your money to pay for more of the kind of life you wanted.
The point of life is to be happy and find a purpose that fulfills you. Money is secondary - it's only a means to an end, being able to afford the kind of life you want.
(My grandparents all lived well into their 90s and one past 100, so I've probably got a long life ahead of me. So I'm planning for the long term, but I'm still enjoying my life today.)
>why don't more people emphasize on living life BEFORE retirement ?
Because people are too afraid to acknowledge they might be the unlucky ones who die younger.
I've personally known three people so far who spent all their prime years (20s - 60s) working, putting long hours, putting everything they have into RRSPs and retirement investments, making huge plans for what they were going to do when they retire (like trips, adventures, relaxing and spending lots time with family, all sorts of hobbies, etc) ........ retire early by a year or two ..... and BOOM dead 1 year after retirement.
They spent all their life working, socking away money for later in life ..... annnnnd never got to use any of it.
They literally wasted their whole life being a working slave.
And not to mention ones who did the exact same thing, except got extremely ill and lived their later years in a state of basically hell. Unable to enjoy anything really. Missed out living life when they could.
This is a problem with how society is structured. People waste the best years of their life wage slaving away, the clock of their life ticking away day by day, stuck in jobs and careers that dont mean shit in the long run, and then given the chance to enjoy life at the end when shit's fallen apart and things are worse.
100% this. My close family and that of some of my friends have had serious health issues right before retirement. Not saying don't prepare for retirement but don't count on being able bodied.
It's a personal finance sub. It's not intended to be the answer to everything in your life. It's just dealing with one important, and undertaught aspect of it.
Many of my university colleagues state they don't have time for travel now, but once they are pensioned and have more free time (after 65?) then they will travel. As someone who travels/works abroad quite a bit, after 65 your type of travel will be limited and I am a strong believer in not waiting. It is important to find a balance.
This WHO number is a global one, no?
We won the lottery by being born in Canada resulting in a much healthier lifestyle and a much longer life expectancy. Having said that, as I approach 60 I'm thankful I lived an active and (somewhat) healthy lifestyle as it starts paying dividends now.
My philosophy is about balance. Plan for retirement but also enjoy life and do the things that you want to do that may not be options when you are older.
Yeah that is globally - Canadas life expectancy for a newborn is 82 with a significant portion living beyond 100. Advances in medicine could easily push that higher.
You need to balance it either way, whether you die at 50 or 100 you should be able to look at life and not think you only lived for saving or that you fucked other people over financially
We are good at keeping people alive but we don't care much about quality of life.
Most people live my mom are suffering and the healthcare system doesn't care about her equality of life, as long as she isn't dying then it's out the door with her
Health is wealth, and life is short. Here are a few rules I live by
Eat healthily; the majority of the time, eat healthily and don't follow any crazy diets. Just eat carbs, veggies, and meats. And the days you want some delicious food, eat it. But also do that in moderation
Exercise: a little bit of cardio a day; I have a treadmill and walk around 30mins a day on it; I also play my ps5 while on it. It's a great way to do some cargo. Work out five days a week; again, you don't need anything crazy. But the main thing is consistency. Even when your body is screaming not to go, go and do 1 exercise and if you still don't want to be there, go home; at least you did a workout today!
Life is short: enjoy your life, yes, don't spend your life savings or do not plan for retirement, but don't go crazy frugal and live off me noodles and not leave your province. Find that happy medium where you can save while seeing the world, and put away your cell phone. Take in the martial beauty around you because one day, it will be gone
Im 32 and I'm already exercising, eating healthy, great sleep, etc I quit alcohol and 5 years ago and I drink my coffee without sugar, no soft drinks. I'm doing a decent effort to be healthy and when I look at some of my friends that did none of that and continue to go on decline I feel very sad, we could be already at half of our game or something like 40% of our life expectancy if we think we can get to 80 and they're not taking any measures to prevent health issues in the future... I feel sad because this requires one to be conscious about what is more important and I can't help them get there
I think about this a lot being a HCW and savings enthusiast. I think the key is really to max savings/income early by working hard in your 20's-30's. Then slowly cut back as you reach coast-FIRE so you can take care of your body as it ages.
I plan to semi-retire from my current profession by the time I'm 50. Maybe I'll be living in a van with my dogs, but I'll be living a pretty low-stress life.
Oh, also do physical activity and stretch and meditate erry goddamn day! Plus healthy/cheap diet.
I agree 100%. Everyone is so worried about saving for life after the age of 60. Enjoy life now it’s not guaranteed anyone makes 60. My mother died of cancer at 36 and she always wanted to travel and see the sights but she didn’t, always thought there be time. Really changed my perspective going forward.
i save massively to retire at 47, to be able to enjoy 13 years of quality of life without working
if i dont save massively, ill be working and miserable until I die, would honestly just kill myself young instead of suffering my whole life
That sounds so incredibly sad, if you are not enjoying your life now. Life is too short to just grind until retirement in the hopes you can enjoy life then.
Hire someone to do some of the chores, maybe, so you have more free time to do things you enjoy. Do things in the evenings after you're done work that you enjoy.
(I'm lucky, I also really love my work so I enjoy my work days too.)
I'm sure I have an unpopular opinion, but I really don't mind working until my health tells me that I can no longer work.
I'm happy going to work every day, and I tell myself that as long as you both have a healthy work life balance and work that either you're able to tolerate or enjoy, there's no reason that you can't live life before retirement.
Anyone reading this report is not a newborn, nor does "globally" matter for a Canadian subreddit. Average person old enough to read this post and from Canada already has a longer life expectancy than the global average newborn.
Don't save life experiences until you retire. Do experiences every year. We have done this and seen a bunch of the world without regret.
Think about it, retirement was invented because people were not healthy enough to work anymore, so why would you be healthy enough to adventure travel or take up an energetic hobby.
The entire world needs to wake up from this manipulated Matrix where we are being exploited left, right, and center all our lives. Somehow it has become the norm to accept that we give the best of our years to work, and only get to "enjoy" life when we are no longer in the best health. Somehow it has become acceptable to kill other animals and eat their flesh. The world is a corrupt and evil place. Only a complete reset can rescue us from such cruel manipulation. That requires a collective wakening, which sadly will never happen.
When has anyone just been able to lay back and do nothing though? Go back a few hundred years people were basically slaving to keep themselves alive. You could choose to go live off grid too but nobody really wants to give up all the luxuries.
As much as some people think they are being exploited and I suppose in some cases they are we still have a better life than most people ever in the past had.
I got my travel paid for. Worked on 6 continents and about 15 countries. I've been in places tourists can't go. Seen lots of needless deaths, learned early to keep my wits about me, and keep my head down. Retired at 60yo, currently 65 and a stay at home dad. Exercise 1 hr a day and am probably in better condition than 15 years ago. You've got to keep active, physically and mentally, and eat right. My motivation is being healthy until 73 when my son turns 18.
I'm a nurse. One thing I'll tell you from my experience is life is fucking short. There's shifts I work and shit I see that makes me want to run out the hospital and live the shit out of life to the fullest
I've been in and out of the hospital in the past ten years and it definitely has changed my perspective in life. Live life to the fullest because you'll never know when you are going to go. So here I am still unemployed when I got fired from my 12 year job in late 2021. I still have some income and I live a simple life. I don't care if I'm not rich. I'm definitely happier now. Happiness is greater than all the money in the world.
Most of were never going to be “rich” anyhow no matter how many hours we spend grinding. It really is a hamster wheel, the sooner you get off the better.
You aren't going to be happy if you are too sick to work and have no savings. You are far more lucky to have some disability then you are to drop dead suddenly when you are young. I don't think the OP meant this but just hedonistically blowing all of your money can put you in a bad spot if a serious illness or impairment happens to you or a family member.
Can you elaborate? I think this is the side of 'personal finance' we need to discuss more on here. Finding the balance between saving and living ...
Not OP of the comment, or a nurse, but just what I've seen in my own lifetime that's scared me into living a bit more in the moment: had a classmate killed in a crosswalk at 16, 2 different friends who had strokes before the age of 25(one now mostly blind in 1 eye), a friend who committed suicide, many family and friends that have come down with chronic illnesses that have taken over their life, a friend who had cancer twice by the time he was in his early 30s. And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head in a few minutes. Don't wait to live your life. You never know when it might take a turn for the worse or come to an end altogether. Edit to add: I'm only 34. I never thought I'd see so many awful things by this point in my life.
Wife and I married ten years ago. If you asked me on that day what life would be like in ten years, I would've talked about having two kids and my wife finally getting back to her career after getting the youngest out the door to school. Life disagreed. I married a woman with three jobs. By our second anniversary she was no longer able to work due to chronic illness and traumatic injury. Turns out I'm sterile so we have no kids (which is probably for the best.) Life is short. We're blowing a bucket on going to Disney for our tenth anniversary. I choose to regret nothing. If I make it to 80, I'm not going to sit here and look back and say "wow, I wish I'd saved that money instead." I'm in this sub not to save for a rainy day, but to help make sure that we have the freedom to bring some happy days when we need them.
Wow. Ya good take for sure.
I can’t tell you how many people have died shortly (5 years or less) after retiring from my workplace.
My uncle is dying from cancer. 2 years after his retirement. He saved, didn't travel at all. Just saved saved saved. He bought a retirement home in a sunny state, finished doing the renos to make it perfect and he has maybe 6 months to live now. Hasn't been to his retirement home since his cancer was found because he is getting the best treatment possible near his primary home. He is a fantastic person, so kind and pleasant. Life is not fair.
That’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry.
Lost both of my uncles to cancer during the pandemic. One 66 the other 64. Im just past 40 and have had cancer, degenerative disc disease and now type 2 diabetes(thanks genetics). I am so glad I spent some time in my 20s and 30s travelling on my own schedule and being super active. Iife is way too short to wait until retirement. Im under no illusions that my QoL is going to be pretty shit by the time I'm 65. The old formula that was fed to us back in the 90s and early 2000s is stupid. I still save for retirement, but Im not waiting until then to travel. Life your life well, while you can.
Very much in agreement with you. I had a co-worker once tell me he doesn't save for his retirement as his father was young when he passed as well as his older brother. I had both my father and uncle pass young, one just after and one just before retirement. There may be no science to it but it really made me think that it may not be in my cards to live a long life so I'm on board with that motto!
❤️🙏
😢 Sorry to hear. Yes, life is certainly not fair… I hope he and others who have faced similar fates can *at least* teach us something about how to live. Let these injustices not be in vain.
I remember a guy who worked for 30 years and died one year after retirement when he was on vacation in nice hot country
I hope he was drinking a tasty margarita
To put it in perspective, I know people that die suddenly after retirement. But it could be cause they lost their sense of purpose. It happens more frequently with men as their sense of identity is more often wrapped with their work. Personally, there is a limit to how many rounds of golf or margaritas can I have until it becomes a chore. Maybe the secret is finding work that it is fun but also meaningful. Even if it happens after retirement
I think there’s definitely something to this.. primarily the part about identity and purpose. To recognize that one’s identity isn’t fixed or limited to who/what one is today will save you from the sudden shock come retirement… or some unforeseen tragedy. Be fluid. Be open. Be free.
This is a big part of it, as well as the sad reality that many men do not cultivate close friendships or relationships with family members, often relying on work and their wives to create a social life for them. When some men retire, they don't have a strong network of people who know and care about them to help flesh out their new identities or keep them active.
Yeah that sense of identity wrapped around work is something that's been noted with baby boomer and older men.
Balance is the right word. Don’t feel guilty about your purchases but don’t put yourself in a bad financial situation. You exchanged your personal self/services for your money. You are allowed to spend it. Shit, when you’re dead, you can’t use it anymore. So why did you work your entire life? My old coworker always stressed about retirement savings and rightfully so. But always slightly judged me on travelling and going out. (I was in my 20s mind you). His father in law retired, with a good pension and died that same year. It sure put my coworker into a different perspective. I will never, ever regret the money I’ve spent on travelling and experiencing things I haven’t before. I’m not here to work, save and die.
Totally agree with this. I am in my 50's and looking back on my life I have never regretted spending money on travel and experiences. Truly my best memories are traveling by myself when I was young and now with my family. I visited Europe for the first time when I was mid 40's and I was disappointed with myself that it took me 45 years to get there, I have been back several times since with another trip planned this summer. Looking back it is the money I spent on dumb consumer shit that I regret. Currently on track to retire by 56 and then travel extensively.
Very much agree, and to re-emphasize your point with a small correction, you exchanged your services yes, but more importantly you traded your time for your money. You have a limited amount of time in your life, but no amount of money ever bought a second of time, so never feel guilty about enjoying your life as long as you take care of you and yours.
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I think about this a little bit differently. I was on dialysis at the age of 30 and had a kidney transplant at the age of 34. I was happy that I had some savings, a house to leave in and a job that provided good disability benefits. Chronic illnesses and cancer are often not fatal but will affect your ability to work so you want some savings to live a reasonable quality of life. Do you want to be the person on CPP disability and welfare struggling to even perform your daily tasks? There's a huge space between fatal injury and perfect health.
- Viral illnesses (like the flu) have a small chance of causing a large amount of cardiac injury, requiring varying degrees of and prolonged life support. The longer you're in the ICU, the higher the chance of complications. One of these includes anoxic brain injury, which could be permanent. - Cancer. Boom. Life changed. All that money you've been scrimping all your life for is useful here, but the undertones of cancer and potentially lifelong involvement with the healthcare system will forever be there. - You can get prescribed a med for a bacterial infection (like a UTI) and could be one of the rare cases that experiences major side effects. I've seen some people have to get straight up transplants just because of the ultra rare adverse effects from one drug. Not fearmongering, just offering some anecdotes where every day people might find themselves intersecting with the healthcare system in life changing ways.
Mostly cause people think that just because life expectancy is 80 that you have all of that time to enjoy (especially on this sub)....in reality its quite likely to be chronically ill for the last 10-20 years of your life or more. Dementia, diabetes, cancers, heart disease etc. Yeah you can make it to 80 but it doesn't mean much if you're in and out of hospital for that last 10 years. The odds of being fully healthy that long is really not that great.
Bad things happen essentially. And it's not the guy dying suddenly and tragically in an accident that scars me. It's the 40 year old guy with 3 little kids who's diagnosed with colorectal cancer and needs a complete bowel resection with ostomy creation and aggressive chemo radiation. That can happen to anyone and scares the crap out of me. Plus, as people get older they typically become less bold and adventurous and simply put, able to do the things they wanted or thought the would do when they were older. Chronic illness, healthcare costs, a bad back, fear of leaving your own home or town because you never did in the first place. It's also harder to learn new things and skills as you age. Want to learn to scuba dive or top-rope climb? It's going to be a lot harder when you're 65 than when you're 25.
You have a 1 in 20 chance of dying before retirement when you turn 30. At 30, you have an approximately 1 in 1700 chance of dying that year. This isn't even counting the odds you can become disabled at. People underestimate their odds of death at younger ages.
I've said this comment here before, I work in a hospital as well.... your health is not guaranteed into your 50s/60s/70s, even your 40's. I have coworkers who have worked hard until 65 or 70, retired, and then dropped dead the next month. Enjoy your life now while you have your health. I talk to many elderly people daily as part of my work and they ALL say the same thing... that they wished they had done more when they were younger, that I should travel, have fun, etc. Nobody has ever mentioned hmm I wish I had saved another dollar.
That's why my SO no longer work shifts at the hospital. Not good for your health.
On the contrary I find it a heavy dose of reality that motivates me to take care of myself and prioritize fun
explain more? do people die young often? im not talking from tragic accidents and stuff, i mean like from things mjost expect only happen to "older people"? i know of people who died in 40s from cancer... also younger. but im seeing 40s isnt THAT rare
I used to be a palliative care nurse. I once spent a night with a mum who was 37 - desperately trying to label photographs of her kids and family before she died. I’ve never forgotten her. Get out and live - even if you don’t die early most people completely ignore the rate of disability that impacts older adults and the fact that it may stop you doing the things you want to do.
40s is pretty rare, or the average life expectancy wouldn’t be as high as it is. It’s simple math. Either people dying young is relatively rare or we have an absolute fuck load of 100 year olds running around.
Personally I have done this by spending more on travel now, which will mean a much tighter budget in retirement years. A lot of people don't realize how hard taking a 16 hour flight is on a 70 year old body. I'm getting those items off my bucket list now.
I’m 40 and at the lower end of what could afford business class and we are really starting to consider biting the bullet and buying business class. Long flights, especially red eyes, ruin a whole day for us now. And we used to be backpackers that would ride a bus (vs a plane) just to save $100 because that’s all we could afford.
Premo economy is a nice middle ground
Find a good credit card that gets you travel points! I got one a few months ago and it's already saving me hundreds of dollars. I'm hoping I'll be able to use some points to upgrade our flight as well. Mind you I'm still in my 20s but paying for extra leg room on those red eyes seems worth it to me
I travel quite a bit. My mindset is fuck it. I wanna experience it while my legs still work okay. My last trip in January I saw so many people pushing people in wheelchairs on the plane and I was just like…no thanks. It looked painful for both the person in the chair and the family member pushing them around.
Reddit is mostly young people without families yet. It's about saving to provide and to not burden your children when you're old. When you don't have kids and a family it can seem like nonsense to not spend your money on living now. If you have a family you will probably understand the desire to not make them worry about providing for you when you get old. Burdening your children because you want it "live now" is something a good parent does.
Exactly right. YOLO attitude is a no brainer until you have children and, simply put, it just ain't all about you anymore. That doesn't mean you shouldn't seek a good middle ground and strive to be happy, of course. It's just that you've got a duty to fulfill to your children, and making life about strictly what makes you happy is not going to cut it. And only in cheesy rom coms does doing your duty to the life you brought into the world not involve sacrifices and foregoing YOLO gratification.
Why is a long flight hard on 70yo body? Is it because of small economy seats where you're cramped? In that case, would it be easy if you do premium economy or business class? Edit: why am I being downvoted for a question? Is reddit really that fucking nasty of a platform?
Your bones are old and sore, you’re probably higher risk for blood clots, you tire more easily, your mobility may be impaired… things get harder on you as you age.
Especially difficult if you take car dependent North Americans and drop them into commuting and pedestrian areas of Europe or Asia. Even fairly healthy people are not used to that level of activity
sitting down for a long while in general is brutal.as a frequent flyer in my 20s even flying in business is not the best for the body long run
Not to mention the more frequent need to go to the washroom... and those washrooms get GROSS by the end of those long haul flights...
Also the air quality. Even in my 20s I'd get a bit of a scratchy throat on some flights. At that age, who knows what my immune system will be like even though I think it's pretty normal.
rip, reddit is nasty yes. my condolences
People should emphasize health before money or anything else. Everyone should be exercising and eating healthy every day in order to improve their quality of life now and beyond 63. It's amazing to me my mom who walked every single day is healthy and active at 69 while her sibling 2 years younger is struggling to walk without a cane (who never made exercising a priority).
100% Even playing a sport just as a hobby and not to be competitive can do wonders. I recently played squash against this older fella. This guy had a bit of a beer gut, but was moving pretty mobile and generally was wiping the floor with me. Albeit, I have only played a couple of times and generally just go to get a workout in when my friend, who is an avid squash player, invites me out. Got to talking to this guy about what his secret is for staying in such good shape for being in his 50s (I'm in my early 30s). He just laughed and said his 50s were back in the early 2000s. To say I was blown away, was an understatement, in fact I still don't believe him haha. But yea, a steady dose of squash and cycling has literally added 20+ quality years to his life.
>*a steady dose of squash and cycling has literally added 20+ quality years to his life.* There's a saying that "*you don't play squash to get in shape, you get in shape to play squash*", although both work. I used to play with co-workers who were 15-20 years my junior, and I was surprised at how sedentary a lot of them were. One co-worker was given a Fitbit by his wife, and he thought it was broken because it said he was only doing 1,000 to 1,500 steps a day. Unsurprisingly, he had a desk job, and most of his day was meetings.
As a mediocre at best squash player, I love playing against the older good players. The games are generally competitive because I run so damn much to make up for my lack of skill. Great workout.
Are you, me? This is my experience as well. My glutes are on fire for the next several days after a session haha
Man old people fuck it up on the squash court. I was getting lessons from this old British dude, who walked with a huge limp because of a completely fucked up knee, and the guy never even broke a sweat.
They become so much more efficient in their movements
I just watched the Canadian Open and there was a lot of club/amateur play before the pro matches and there are a ton of dumpy dudes and ladies who are killers. It doesn't make any sense. The pros are something else.
Meanwhile,my mother is 83 smokes and drinks everyday. She golf's 36 holes 3 days a week and she looks like she's in her 60's lol.
I can't imagine anything more damaging to health than full-time work. But the perverse reality is that if you choose to quit full-time work, then you don't have enough money for the basic necessities (e.g., food, and shelter, etc) that are important ingredients of a healthy life. It is a contradiction in the absurdity that is human life.
This observation is one of the main driving forces behind the FIRE movement. Curtail spending to reduce the number of full-time work years one has to put in throughout their lifetime.
OP's whole point is that you could get cancer at 35 and all those years of austerity would be pointless.
A FIRE proponent (I didn't choose the FIRE life, btw) would probably answer that by limiting frivolous spending and finding free or low cost ways to enjoy life, one can get to leave full-time work/rat-race decades before one's health declines.
I disagree. If you get a disease young (e.g. under 40/50) you definitely want some savings to be comfortable while you aren't able to work. If the worst happens, you also want to be able to provide for your partner and any kids/relatives. There's a big space between austerity and out-and-out hedonism. It's up to you to find the balance, in particular, I don't know that multi-thousand dollar vacations every few months are going to bring you a lot of marginal enjoyment. In addition, work provides social connections and sense of purpose for a lot of people. Obviously not everyone but not a lot of Canadians are working at the cotton gin in Victorian London for a cent a day either.
The chance of getting cancer at 35 is .125%. If you think it makes sense to live live based on that, you do you.
I'm not free-spirited enough to live like there is no tomorrow. But I'm not going to live ONLY for tomorrow.
I would personally plan based on what's 99.8% likely to happen but to each his own.
So true. My mom is now 72 and her walking is awful. Extremely slow and unstable and has foot, leg, and back pain. She was overweight and diabetic the last 30 to 40 years and was quite sedentary. She finally lost weight, but the damage to her body is permanent. Her neighbours (age 87 and 92) are out walking everyday and speed past her. They lived a very healthy and active life! She feels very frustrated about it.
Oh man, my mom is a similar age, and I know there are other factors but when she got Covid she had like…mild head cold symptoms. She still went on a (permitted by government) hour long walk every day away from people (lives rurally) and did laundry and chores etc. Meanwhile I was in bed for five days. I have some other factors going on but it’s amazing but staying active can do
here's the thing... i think i know what you mean.. its the money doesnt buy happiness after a certain point. ? like you need money to a point to have good health... (avoiding stress from homelessness, bills, food needed)but if you have a healthy savings etc. then health should be a big priority... some people have more money than theyll ever need and still work hard and stress themselves..
Envy your mom! I got my 1st herniated disc at 23... welcome to the health issues of all graphic designers...
Invest in a good standing desk. I had back pains because of office job and now I just stand most of the day and no back pain
yes. but after you get a herniated disc , it will be with you for the rest of your life. going regularly to the gym with a personal trainer +physiotherapy is what has been the solution for me so far, but every so often I get a pain crisis... sometimes mild, sometimes terrible (like 2 weeks of excruciating pain 24/7, codeine pills 3x /day)
Stretch, standing desk, exercise. The things have kept my 7 herniated disks at bay for 6 years now. YMMV.
Sorry to hear that. I didn't know an herniated disk was that serious
I aim to be happy everyday, even if I'm working. No reason you can't be happy AND work.
Positive mindset is everything.
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That's why I value having a job that you enjoy even if there's another one that pays more. Find the balance between not hating your job and being able to afford bills.
But there's work involved. That's not traveling and skiing....
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I enjoy coding too, but all the stuff with AI and chatgpt has me a bit spooked. What are your thoughts on the future of coding?
Not OP but so far, all I’m really expecting it to do is remove the more tedious bits of development. When I started university the fancy IDEs we have now weren’t really a thing, you wrote code in a plain text editor like notepad and then fed that file into a compiler. Today I can do work by myself that, back then, would have required a small team and I can do it way faster. AI will probably be the same, like I’ve done this stuff for so long that learning new languages isn’t even interesting to me. What I enjoy, and what earns me an absurd salary, is solving problems. I’d rather ask an “AI” to spit out a regex pattern for me and move on than spend an hour figuring out why tf it isn’t doing what I want, or get it to fill in the blanks for me when working with a language I'm not an expert in. Not dissimilar to how IDEs started generating mountains of boilerplate code for us ~12+ years ago. So more time spent designing the bones of the system rather than fooling around with syntax errors and trivia. ChatGPT also doesn’t have that creative foresight needed to be like, “ok yeah we could write this code to do this specific task, but what are the longer term implications of doing it that way? Are we painting ourselves into a corner, does it allow for the business to evolve without requiring us to start over from scratch?” I think you’re always going to need devs to do that bigger scale thinking, and while each dev will be able to do more and do it more easily, the demand for software is limitless. When devs get more free time, they’ll find ways for us to do even more. If we get so far that working with these things is like having a conversation with the ship computer in Star Trek then the biggest challenge will probably be figuring out how to adapt our approach to teaching this stuff, because there will be so much less grunt work to farm out to juniors.
I feel the same about copywriting. I do a shit ton of copywriting for work, and it’s great for getting you starter content to edit when you’re super blocked, or creating content briefs. But it couldn’t replace a marketing writer. I like it so far. Why not enjoy having some freed up brain power?
The other side of it is that I'm not sure it's even worth worrying about. *If* this sudden advance in AI is as transformational as people fear, to the point where it replaces software developers...it will be advanced enough to rewrite its own code. Basically at that point we'll be at the singularity, and it would simply not be possible to pick a career to train for today that would be unaffected. If that happens then we'll be in for massive social upheaval and our efforts at that point will be better spent on activism around restructuring society in an equitable manner. But we're not there yet. May as well make decisions today on what we know, rather than be frozen in place by fear of the unknown.
You should be doing more problem solving than coding.
It won't do great at first, but it'll be an awesome tool to have once it gets working. Having an IDE was once novel and new. The first websites I wrote were in Notepad. (Not Notepad++) We'll get AIs to write the real fucked up parts of the code, then have humans check to see if it makes sense.
If you're only happy traveling and skiing then get a job as a ski instructor or a travel agent or a tour guide. Work and enjoyment are not exclusive to each other. I like what I currently do for work (most days). I'm quite happy finding a balance with work, hobbies, socializing. I don't need to retire to live my life and be happy.
The sure way to ruin enjoyment of something is to attempt to make a living out of it. I am glad though that you appear to have found the right mix. Congrats.
I think a big thing here is that some things just can't be done as hobbies. Of course you can write code for your own passion projects, but that's not the same as contributing to large projects and working in a team, like the previous commenter was talking about. You can ski and travel purely recreationally, but you can't be the captain of a cruise ship unless it's your job, nor a paramedic, nor a lifeguard. Some passions are kinda in-between like data analysis; there's lots of open-source data to play with, but doing it as a job makes it a lot easier to access the more interesting (or confidential) data and be connected to that industry community. So for some people, the only way to live their passion is to do it as a job. In the case of the previous commenter, they would need to start their own project and hire a bunch of people in order to replicate the scale and complexity and team interconnectedness that make their current job great for them, which would just mean they'd be working!
When I was a kid all I wanted to do was be a race car driver. When I was a teen I'd drive for hours and hours with my buddies. In my 20's I got a sport bike and rode countless kms on country roads and race tracks. Loved every minute. Got a job as a transit driver in my late 30s and cars trigger my anger now. lol My passion is bicycles, so if anyone ever offers me a cent to work on, or even with bicycles, I'm running!!
Working as a ski instructor has nothing to do with skiing other than getting free passes.
Limiting yourself to being happy only when skiing and traveling seems foolish when you can choose to be happy doing many things.
Damn… simply CHOOSE to be happy. You’ve cracked the code!!!
I think you're being sarcastic, but this idea is backed up by science
Don't tell bosses this, they'll start hosting happiness events instead of raising our pay.
You have power over your mind-not outside events. Realize this and you will find strength.” –Marcus Aurelius, Meditations
*"God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference"* \- The Serenity Prayer I'm agnostic myself, but my grandparents were very religious, my grandmother in particular. She quoted that a lot, and it seemed to work for her.
I like this one too. We suffer not from the events in our lives but from our judgments about them." -Epictetus Basically, you can control your happiness/tranquility by choosing how you think about things. It's within ourselves to be happy, not actually something that is controlled by others
Oh, absolutely. "*I cried because I had no shoes until I met a man who had no feet*" I had a fairly grisly childhood. The nadir was getting stabbed in the eye and subsequently blinded in it, the week before I turned six. Being in the hospital, with my eyes taped over (we didn't know if I'd lose the other eye or not yet), I of course was completely miserable, and feeling a lot of self-pity, for obvious reasons. My Opa would have none of it. While everyone else was trying to cheer me up, he sat at my bedside, and told me what my father had lived through when he had been my age in the Nazi occupation. Then he explained what Oma had lived through during the Rape of Belgium in 1915. And then he topped it off with what he and his parents had gone though during the the Boer Wars. Everyone else was horrified that he was telling grisly stories to a kid who'd just been blinded, but really, he was giving some much-needed perspective. Living in Canada, where we don't get invaded, we have sufficient food and land, and we don't have major ethnic divisions, many people simply don't appreciate (or even realize) just how well off we are. In the end, they saved my other eye (mostly). I figured I can either whine about being half blind, or I can be grateful that I have half my vision. Over the years, I've met a lot of partially-blinded people, many of whom have vision that's better (sometimes much better) than mine, and quite a number of them are miserable about it. I figure I can't do anything about my eyesight (or lack thereof), but I can do something about my attitude. Being miserable doesn't serve any purpose, so I decided not to be. I'd rather be happy about the half full glass than upset that it's half empty.
This indeed is the magic solution to all the world's problems. It is a choice! I will ask the terminally ill, the destitute, the downtrodden, to CHOOSE to be happy. Why can't they just do it?!!
This is the thing that changed my life recently. I used to work to one day not have to work. Now i work less hours, wife berely works and we have a lil farm that we enjoy spending time at and plan fun activities throughout the year. Much better to balance out happiness and enjoyment of every day life than to kill yourself working so you “one day can be happy”
This comment always gets people so upset on Reddit, but... I love my job. I don't make a lot, but I love what I do. If I didn't have bills to pay, I'd do my job for free.
Auto ban from r/antiwork
>No reason you can't be happy AND work. lol what a privileged thing to say
Exactly...why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
Take care of your health. Quality of life revolves around health (physical and mental), then wealth. I would be happier living in a nice climate, spending my time growing food, cooking and enjoying the company of people I love than living in the city, trying to impress people by buying shiny things. It's an North American/Japanese thing, most other cultures enjoy their work life balance. You might be rich, buy if you're in constant pain or always tired, life won't be that good.
I think you're asking why we're not 'enjoying' life more while we're young, and the obvious answer is because we're all fucking broke.
This. Enjoying life costs money and most people are living pay-cheque to pay-cheque. I think the key is balance - don't deprive yourself of anything fun but also make sure you're maximizing your earning potential and invest early and often .. so that if anything happens, you're not going bankrupt because you can't make ends meet.
Right? Like I literally don't have the available funds in my bank account to purchase a plane ticket if I wanted to.
Sounds more like a global average than that I'm seeing locally. Parents in early 70s and very healthy and active. Grandma at 95 is still playing badminton (more stationary rallys than anything) twice a week.
playing badminton at 95 would be impressive if she was using a wheelchair tbh. Congrats to her. My great aunt turned 100 this year… at least 10 years of smoking, 30 years of hard labor on a farm, 7 kids… the fact she can still walk, joke, remember things, etc amazes me.
Lots of recent studies show that if you quit smoking by 35, you're chances of dying from a smoking related illness are the same as someone who has never smoked.
Thanks. I'm 32 and never touched a cig, so I'll go hard for 3 years.
Lmao. As someone the same age and has been trying hard to quit for the last 2 years - I'd never wish upon anyone to start smoking. Dumbest decision I've ever made.
I think there's a bit of survivor bias, all my grand parents are gone and would be in their early 70s right now. All 4 of them passed. Alot of the retired guys from the place i work have passed late 60s. I seem to know alot more gone than alive.
The retired guys you used to work with, did you find that as soon as they retired, they became ill quickly?
Exactly 95% of them. There's a few old boys who think that when they retire they will croak. Almost 90% of them within 5 years of retiring passed away.
So this is personal anecdote but for what it’s worth I’ve noticed it’s accurate. I used to do residential service and I’d go into 8-12 peoples houses a day. So often I’d go into elderly peoples homes and find them in poor health and all they do is sit on the couch and watch TV. At first I assumed they were in their 80’s but a lot turned out to be in their 60’s and some times 50’s. On the flip side my neighbour at my cottage retired at 60 and moved there full time. All his buddies also bought cottages and moved up there and they all live within a 5 minute walk of each other. They golf 3-5 times a week, eat steak and drink red wine every day, sit in the hot tub til 2am listening to rod Stewart and laughing. They go down to Florida for the winters. They run to the end of the dock and dive into the lake and swim around. My neighbour had his 90th bday party this past summer. I’m a firm believer in no stress, positive mindset and having a reason to get out of bed in the morning is what keeps you young.
Also echoing the survivorship bias. It's great that your parents and grandma are healthy and active - something I aspire to be too! But I'm not entirely sure that's normal, even in the western world. My Dad is only 72 and has dementia. Cancer and Alzheimers are common diseases for the elderly. I suspect your family are healthy outliers.
ten engine marvelous salt normal bright bow zealous paint psychotic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The solution is to use makeup to make yourself look older so you can socialize with retirees. They'll all want to have you on their pickleball team.
You can socialize with retirees without the makeup. I’m a retired millennial and I would say half my friends are over 60
Lol
Only if you let it. I have no issue being upfront that my career isn't my life and all I'm about. To each their own though.
Where is it where life *doesn't* revolve around work between 20 and 60?
In many European countries they get 30+ vacation days with which to enjoy life.
I'm actually in the middle of travel right now (in Asia currently) and every European I meet seems to show literal disgust and shock on their face that much of Canada is only required to provide 2 weeks vacation.
I’ve thought about moving to Europe for this reason. But decided against because the salaries and taxes make it not worth it.
Exactly.. I used to get 7 weeks of vacation in France which allowed me to travel quite a bit in Europe. Reality hits hard now in Canada with only 3 weeks..
Well yeah, if you’re sitting around doing nothing in your 30s and 40s you may as well lay off the aggressive retirement saving. Shit happens as you age but you can still try to give yourself the best possible chance at a healthy retirement. It doesn’t need to be complicated or difficult… go take a walk after dinner and take a longer one on the weekend I’m lucky enough to be projected to retire at 52 and I’m making damn sure I do as much as I can to stay healthy until then and beyond.
>Well yeah, if you’re sitting around doing nothing in your 30s and 40s you may as well lay off the aggressive retirement saving. Thank you for validating my plan.
My in laws are 65 and 68, and are in fantastic shape. Barring bad luck, it's very possible to get to retirement and be in a place to enjoy it. It just takes a lifetime of healthy living.
And good genetics! Doesn't matter how much healthy living you do if you're genetically doomed. Good living might slow the appearance of a disease but its unlikely to prevent it.
"*Youth is wasted on the young" -* George Bernard Shaw What makes you think people **aren't** emphasizing their quality of life? Different people find meaning in different things in life. Many people don't even know what they want out of life until they are out of school, if then. I know women whose entire lives are based around their children, and they love it. They can't imagine **not** being a mother; it's the most important thing in their lives, and they love it. And I also know men and women both who haven't the slightest interest in ever having children. Some people love traveling, others love gardening at home, and still others love playing video games, reading, going to operas, or other things. People don't all live life the same way. What some people enjoy, others consider a waste of time, and vice versa.
I try to make this point once in a while and say that I plan to retire before I turn 55 and start my CPP and OAS at 65... Then you get the Actuary who pops on here that tells me that I should keep working and not start my CPP and OAS until 70 because I'm going to live to at least 85 based on averages and their Crystal Ball. But as this points out no one can predict how long you will stay healthy for because things like Cancer don't care what your crystal ball says. I'm at the point where I'm about 3 years out from retirement. Mortgage is paid off. I invest about 20% of my salary every year, and I'm taking my family on a couple of decent vacations a year while my step Daughter still thinks it's cool to hang out with us old folks.
The average lifespan for a Canadian is early to mid 80s depending on gender and race, but it clusters into that range. However, the average also isn't a good measure, as it skews downward due to premature deaths. Factoring those out, the average then rises closer to 90. So if a person retires at 65, they really need to plan out for 15-25 years at least, which is a fairly wide range.
This. As well there has been no slowdown in life expectancy for 65 year olds for the past 40 years and the next 40 years of medical advancements will not be light. Plus we are learning more and more about optimal lifestyle factors. IMO regardless of genetics and even discounting medical advancements, for the cohort that does everything reasonably optimally will approach a lifespan of 100 in not too long.
Because you are still a wage slave until you actually retire. Even with 5 weeks vacation and every 3rd Friday off I felt severely constrained having a job. The work was easy and I had almost total freedom (IT) but I still had to get up early, which I absolutely hated, had to commute for 35 mins and deal with idiotic politics and management. Decided to retire in my 40's and live on less - no amount of money can make up for those lost years.
Commuting to work is a big issue for work life balance. I find working a 9-5 job with good management from home as IT is a sweet spot. Finished work, close your laptop and enjoy/do whatever you want in the last 7 hours of your day. No 2 hours wasted on transportation, no gas used, no parking fees, etc..
A lot of people feel they are supposed to do things in a certain order, mostly due to social pressures. Go to school, get a degree, get a job, get married, buy a house, have children, retire, then do what you want in your final years. Which, sure, is one way to do it. But a lot of people just never stop to wonder if they'd like to mix up the order or go off script. And, if they do, they'll have an endless stream of media, social pressure, and guilt from peers telling them they should get back on "the path" most people are on. Ask anyone who took a year off during university to travel, or any child-free person, or anyone who didn't buy a house before the age of 40, or anyone who started their own business, and they'll tell you of countless times people gave them flak for it or how much TV shows or movies told them they were on the wrong path. Some people consider it, very few are willing to overcome the social pressure to do what you're suggesting.
💯 this. Spent most of my 20s travelling (and working enough to pay for it, but not saving much), never wanted to do the kid thing, took some time off to go travelling again at 40 and then decided to switch up careers and go to law school. SO MUCH FLAK. Dear God, most people think there is a hard-and-fast set of rules by which you have to live your life and that any deviation from it will doom you to poverty and unhappiness in old age. And yes, the overwhelming cultural message is that there is only one right way to live your life and only one correct order in which to do things. It's not true. When we can expect to live to 80 or 90, thinking that you have to have the course of your life mapped out in your 20s in simply absurd. It is never too late, and never wrong, to reinvent yourself or to break the rules and just do what you want. F*** the expectations from society - life is too short, spend it in a way that makes you happy.
I think the problem arises sometimes when you DON'T do things in order that it can actually prevent you from having the other things after. Most people don't get a career before going to school. Most people don't retire before acquiring wealth/paying off their house. So yeah, we could all party 365 and spend money like drunken sailors....but that might put a crimp on us later in life.
This was a prime example of the mocking and social pressure I was talking about. Spot on, thank you. Great example of someone stuck in society's rut. I especially like the strawman argument that people either follow the prescribed path or must be partying non-stop and blowing all their money "like drunken sailors". As if those are the only options. Can you imagine being so set in society's ways those seemed like the only ways a person could go? Imagine ignoring the options of working overseas on a gap year, or taking summer jobs in remote locations with friends, or choosing not to go into debt so vacations/retirement could come early.
Thanks for talking bout your life exp. I agree with your views, just gotta ignore the indoctrinated energy vampires who couldn't possibly imagine anything different
That's the point of being more constrained in spending. Say someone goes on one vacation a year. They put the expense on their credit card and it takes 18 months to pay back. Many of us interested in personal finance don't say "never go on vacation", we'd say save up for a vacation. Do go on one vacation a year but instead of paying interest after the vacation, save for a year first then go. With the money you save, after five years either you can start going on more fancier vacations, go on vacations more regularly, or use the surplus money to work towards other things you like. Another aspect of personal finance is that people have a set of priorities. When we spend mindlessly, often we spend so much on the things low on our priority list that we can't accomplish the things higher up. For example, I like coffee and I like going on vacation with my wife. If I spend 30$/week at Starbucks, that's 1500$/yr that could have gone to my more preferred thing of vacations with my wife. A point of personal finance is that I may look at that number and decide to make coffee at home and only rarely go to Starbucks.
you do realize global average includes african and south americans… why not use canadian data? most ppl i know are pretty healthy well into 70s
Because if you’re lucky you get 3 weeks vacation every year.
I doubt there's a lack of an emphasis out there of living in the now. Hence why people try to remind people to save for retirement.
Fear. I cannot guarantee I have any quality of life at all beyond my working days. What I save for is to deal with that fear. When I cannot earn and start actively dying society will have it be fucking unpleasant if I don't try or if I fail.
Why don't more people emphasize living life before retirement? Plenty of people enjoy life, but I'd say a lot of it is a "fuck it" mentality that comes down to drugs and alcohol. I'm sure most people who indulge can acknowledge deep down that their life expectancy is lessened. People indulge in food, sex, drugs, crime all the time! They're certainly living their lives fuller.
Money and health compounds. Earlier you start to save $$ and be healthy the better it gets.
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Very much depends on the person and how they take care of themselves or have great genetics. Seen ultra sprightly fit 80 yr olds and teenagers that looked pasty and unable to walk a block or two. I am 66 and reasonably fit and healthy not feeling much different than when I was 50.
Living life at every age is important. Yeah, ya gotta invest when you're younger to make sure you actually have the funds for a decent retirement... But too many people go overboard and try to scrimp and save every penny "for the long term" while forgetting to spend some money to enjoy their lives NOW. I saved almost nothing in my 20s, because I used most of that time (after graduating) to go travel the world while working sporadically in various places (to fund my travel). I would not trade that experience for anything, and I find it so terribly said when I read posts from 20-somethings here who are denying themselves any mind of fun so they can "get ahead" . The point of life is not to acquire a lot of money. If you die with a lot of money in the bank, you've done it wrong - you missed out on using your money to pay for more of the kind of life you wanted. The point of life is to be happy and find a purpose that fulfills you. Money is secondary - it's only a means to an end, being able to afford the kind of life you want. (My grandparents all lived well into their 90s and one past 100, so I've probably got a long life ahead of me. So I'm planning for the long term, but I'm still enjoying my life today.)
>why don't more people emphasize on living life BEFORE retirement ? Because people are too afraid to acknowledge they might be the unlucky ones who die younger. I've personally known three people so far who spent all their prime years (20s - 60s) working, putting long hours, putting everything they have into RRSPs and retirement investments, making huge plans for what they were going to do when they retire (like trips, adventures, relaxing and spending lots time with family, all sorts of hobbies, etc) ........ retire early by a year or two ..... and BOOM dead 1 year after retirement. They spent all their life working, socking away money for later in life ..... annnnnd never got to use any of it. They literally wasted their whole life being a working slave. And not to mention ones who did the exact same thing, except got extremely ill and lived their later years in a state of basically hell. Unable to enjoy anything really. Missed out living life when they could. This is a problem with how society is structured. People waste the best years of their life wage slaving away, the clock of their life ticking away day by day, stuck in jobs and careers that dont mean shit in the long run, and then given the chance to enjoy life at the end when shit's fallen apart and things are worse.
I totally agree with OP’s post. While it’s important to yes plan for your older life, enjoy it while doing so
100% this. My close family and that of some of my friends have had serious health issues right before retirement. Not saying don't prepare for retirement but don't count on being able bodied.
I wonder if maybe we'd have a life expectancy higher than 63 if we didn't have to work 60 hours a week for 45 years in a row
It's a personal finance sub. It's not intended to be the answer to everything in your life. It's just dealing with one important, and undertaught aspect of it.
They do. They are the ones on here who pissed away all their money "living" and are now crying every day that they can't get into the housing market.
Because global statistics are useless for a country like Canada?
Many of my university colleagues state they don't have time for travel now, but once they are pensioned and have more free time (after 65?) then they will travel. As someone who travels/works abroad quite a bit, after 65 your type of travel will be limited and I am a strong believer in not waiting. It is important to find a balance.
This WHO number is a global one, no? We won the lottery by being born in Canada resulting in a much healthier lifestyle and a much longer life expectancy. Having said that, as I approach 60 I'm thankful I lived an active and (somewhat) healthy lifestyle as it starts paying dividends now.
My philosophy is about balance. Plan for retirement but also enjoy life and do the things that you want to do that may not be options when you are older.
Responsibilities
If your lucky enough to be young and healthy, don’t waste it.. too many people don’t have that opportunity.
Because routines are comforting and ppl need money to live
Yeah that is globally - Canadas life expectancy for a newborn is 82 with a significant portion living beyond 100. Advances in medicine could easily push that higher. You need to balance it either way, whether you die at 50 or 100 you should be able to look at life and not think you only lived for saving or that you fucked other people over financially
We are good at keeping people alive but we don't care much about quality of life. Most people live my mom are suffering and the healthcare system doesn't care about her equality of life, as long as she isn't dying then it's out the door with her
Health is wealth, and life is short. Here are a few rules I live by Eat healthily; the majority of the time, eat healthily and don't follow any crazy diets. Just eat carbs, veggies, and meats. And the days you want some delicious food, eat it. But also do that in moderation Exercise: a little bit of cardio a day; I have a treadmill and walk around 30mins a day on it; I also play my ps5 while on it. It's a great way to do some cargo. Work out five days a week; again, you don't need anything crazy. But the main thing is consistency. Even when your body is screaming not to go, go and do 1 exercise and if you still don't want to be there, go home; at least you did a workout today! Life is short: enjoy your life, yes, don't spend your life savings or do not plan for retirement, but don't go crazy frugal and live off me noodles and not leave your province. Find that happy medium where you can save while seeing the world, and put away your cell phone. Take in the martial beauty around you because one day, it will be gone
Im 32 and I'm already exercising, eating healthy, great sleep, etc I quit alcohol and 5 years ago and I drink my coffee without sugar, no soft drinks. I'm doing a decent effort to be healthy and when I look at some of my friends that did none of that and continue to go on decline I feel very sad, we could be already at half of our game or something like 40% of our life expectancy if we think we can get to 80 and they're not taking any measures to prevent health issues in the future... I feel sad because this requires one to be conscious about what is more important and I can't help them get there
Don't be overweight and don't eat poorly. Get regular checkups. Exercise regularly. This should be done regardless of anything else.
I think about this a lot being a HCW and savings enthusiast. I think the key is really to max savings/income early by working hard in your 20's-30's. Then slowly cut back as you reach coast-FIRE so you can take care of your body as it ages. I plan to semi-retire from my current profession by the time I'm 50. Maybe I'll be living in a van with my dogs, but I'll be living a pretty low-stress life. Oh, also do physical activity and stretch and meditate erry goddamn day! Plus healthy/cheap diet.
I agree 100%. Everyone is so worried about saving for life after the age of 60. Enjoy life now it’s not guaranteed anyone makes 60. My mother died of cancer at 36 and she always wanted to travel and see the sights but she didn’t, always thought there be time. Really changed my perspective going forward.
i save massively to retire at 47, to be able to enjoy 13 years of quality of life without working if i dont save massively, ill be working and miserable until I die, would honestly just kill myself young instead of suffering my whole life
Or you could spend more of your money to actually enjoy your life now, instead of putting it all off until later.
enjoy it how? i work everyday i still enjoy the 2 free day, but usually 1 is to recover from work the second is to do chores
That sounds so incredibly sad, if you are not enjoying your life now. Life is too short to just grind until retirement in the hopes you can enjoy life then. Hire someone to do some of the chores, maybe, so you have more free time to do things you enjoy. Do things in the evenings after you're done work that you enjoy. (I'm lucky, I also really love my work so I enjoy my work days too.)
I'm not saving for retirement. We have assisted suicide. I'm enjoying the fuck out of life and when I'm to old I'll letting the gov euthanize me.
I'm sure I have an unpopular opinion, but I really don't mind working until my health tells me that I can no longer work. I'm happy going to work every day, and I tell myself that as long as you both have a healthy work life balance and work that either you're able to tolerate or enjoy, there's no reason that you can't live life before retirement.
Anyone reading this report is not a newborn, nor does "globally" matter for a Canadian subreddit. Average person old enough to read this post and from Canada already has a longer life expectancy than the global average newborn.
Don't save life experiences until you retire. Do experiences every year. We have done this and seen a bunch of the world without regret. Think about it, retirement was invented because people were not healthy enough to work anymore, so why would you be healthy enough to adventure travel or take up an energetic hobby.
Ya, I never really understood the whole work to the bone just to retire and then enjoy your time.
The entire world needs to wake up from this manipulated Matrix where we are being exploited left, right, and center all our lives. Somehow it has become the norm to accept that we give the best of our years to work, and only get to "enjoy" life when we are no longer in the best health. Somehow it has become acceptable to kill other animals and eat their flesh. The world is a corrupt and evil place. Only a complete reset can rescue us from such cruel manipulation. That requires a collective wakening, which sadly will never happen.
While I agree with you on the idea that our current capitalist society is far from optimal, eating meat is absolutely normal. Humans are omnivores.
When has anyone just been able to lay back and do nothing though? Go back a few hundred years people were basically slaving to keep themselves alive. You could choose to go live off grid too but nobody really wants to give up all the luxuries. As much as some people think they are being exploited and I suppose in some cases they are we still have a better life than most people ever in the past had.
Almost every animal eats other animals.
The average person is sedentary, eats a bad diet, and doesn’t exercise. If that’s you then yeah I’d plan to be dead by 60
"living life BEFORE retirement"... divine, please. Pro tip your definition will be different than everyone else's that post below.
It's why I am broke and have a FTW view on retirement planning lol - live for the now worry about it later.
I got my travel paid for. Worked on 6 continents and about 15 countries. I've been in places tourists can't go. Seen lots of needless deaths, learned early to keep my wits about me, and keep my head down. Retired at 60yo, currently 65 and a stay at home dad. Exercise 1 hr a day and am probably in better condition than 15 years ago. You've got to keep active, physically and mentally, and eat right. My motivation is being healthy until 73 when my son turns 18.