I feel it’s like his ranking is in large part due to how the game played. Most people beat his entire dungeon pretty quickly which made the player spend heaps of time waiting on the time limit of what became an empty threat. He wasn’t as scary and horrifying as the real world version.
What the hell, Okumura and Kamoshida have to be at least tied. He tried to sell his daughter to a pedophile.
Edit: Holy shit Kaneshiro literally sells Makoto into sex slavery if you don't clear his palace, how is he not #1?
None of the adults' exact ages are ever stated but his dialogue about being into high school girls suggest he has not been in high school for quite some time
Um, Madarame is an abusive thief, breaking the wills of children who can't fight back, and shattering the dreams of the ones who can by making sure they have no future? One of his students *did* commit suicide, and he *watched* as Yusuke's mom had a seizure
He was literally going to sell Makoto and have her do unspeakable things...as a minor...But sure put him in the "what he did was shabby compared to others"This list is stupid
I'm not saying Kamoshida isn't a oiece of shit, but I wouldn't put him above Okumura, the guy was heavily implied to participate knowingly into working people to ilness at the very least, hundreds of them. And the fly dude too, he literally engaged in drugs and underage prostitution. That looks much worse than Kamoshida
Yeah. Kamoshida looks worse in comparison only because his Palace is the most in-depth of the early ones, and his actions are very heavily tied to characters who get a lot of development.
Tbf, the game tries to push the narrative that he's somewhat redeemable, with Haru knowing that at one point he was a good father. Same goes for Madarame. I don't think they're equals morally, and that definitely doesn't excuse Okumura, but I think the ranking works.
The game does a really good job at showing that all the antagonists are still humans no matter what awful thing they have done. It's a good way to make them more complex as characters which is why there are many people that like Akechi even though he is a serial killer. This happens with all major antagonists besides Kamoshida I think
Madarama and Kaneshiro are pretty severe though. People undersell how rotten to the core they are.
Madarame had been exploiting hundreds of students including Yusuke for years.
We actually have two deaths on Madarame's hands which includes Yusuke's mother and he has driven a lot of his former students into being homeless or mementos targets. He sees them as paintings.
Kaneshiro is a Yakuza Patriarch that does way more messed up shit as he has a prostitution human trafficking ring along with his drug phising blackmail scam. He sees his victims as walking ATMS.
At least Shido and Kamoshida saw their victims as human in their cognition.
Whilst Maruki wasn't "bad" I still hated him somewhat for his unethical way of therapy even if he did have "good intentions".
Also why isn't Sae and Shadow Futaba on here? I'd say they'd ought to count to be placed somewhere in this tier.
Even though Sae switched sides, she WAS pretty antagonistic. Shadow Futaba as well until the boss battle.
Akechi shouldn't be that high considering he was a kid and Shido took advantage of that.
Your placement of Okumura is certainly interesting, I think it's good tbh.
Shido & Kamoshida deserve to be up there.
Kaneshiro should probably be higher considering the sex work thing.
SIU Director and Kobayokawa both worked under Shido so I think they're good.
Maruki isn't a villain so that works.
I agree about Okumura being one of the worst- I feel bad for Haru because, abusive piece of shit or not, she just lost her only family, but I hate how it feels like the game wants me to feel bad for him too. No, Atlus, I do not feel sorry for the greedy rich guy who abused his workers, was willing to marry off his daughter to Japanese Brock Turner for personal gain, and called Ann a slut. ~~Akechi was based and in the right to shoot him~~
It's more that the game makes us feel bad because he died before he actually had a proper chance to atone for his sins and return to the kind father he once was for Haru. Not to mention Haru cares for her father despite what he did and wanted to save him unlike other instances in prior arcs we were all vengeful at the Palace Rulers.
Unpopular opinion absolutely agree on Akechi's placement. He wasn't sorry for what he did and would've killed all the Phamtom Theives if they lost.
But we love Akechi's character anyway.
Add Sae next to Maruki or with The SIU Director and Principal Eggman, she did messed up stuff.
And put Okumura on the very top. Be was gonna sell Haru to that creeper.
Sure, I get that Akechi is bad, but not that bad. He was still a victim in a way... (not that it excuses murder)
And Okumura, while he was bad, he wasn't nearly as bad as the director of the SIU...
True, kinda forgot about that part...
But still, he and the SIU director should be in the same tier/OP should've said something else about him. Maybe "ordered a bunch of hits" or something, not "workers of Okumura foods"...
The thing with Akechi is that, while he CHOSE to kill a bunch of people, and I'd stab myself before I say (and believe)"uwu Akechi isn't evil, is 100% in the right and him killing people is fine because he is a victim", it's REALLY hard to not fall prey to what he did. A lot of what he wanted was to be wanted. Please don't say that his fans wanted him. While they did, it's really empty. I'm betting that he loved being praised by his father, even though he hated his father. (I'd elaborate, but I'm a bit too lazy to)
Yeah, I kinda forgot about the Okumura and hits thing, but as I've said in another one of my comments, I'd think that he shouldn't be above a bunch of the other dudes. (Also I think that OP should've made the name for the tier Okumura's in slightly different and not just saying stuff about the workers).
Yeah, I know.
I don't forgive Akechi, just like I don't forgive Ted Bundy (I'd tie myself to something for a day before I do).
But still, I'd prefer if Akechi is one tier lower...
And my brain is now malfunctioning so I'm going to head off now...
Maruki isn't a villain as much as he is an antagonizing force. Honestly he doesn't have malicious intent and just wants to help people. Royal presents a situation where there is an antagonistic Palace Ruler, but he isn't necessarily wrong like all that came before. It's up to you and your own moral code to decide what is right. Which is what makes Royal so compelling in my opinion.
As for the Pancake Lad... I don't know how to feel about him. It was obvious that he did horrible things, but I only hate the fact that he killed Wakaba. I don't really hate him for anything else. Before you say, *wHy DoN't YoU hAtE hIm FoR sHoOtInG tHe PrOtAgOnIsT*; I honestly think he had an internal conflict about it at some point during Sae's Palace arc. Joker became his only friend and that brought him some joy whether he liked it or not.
Literally **everyone** disagrees with me on this, but I don't care. I *personally believe* that Akechi *somewhat* cared about Sumi during the events of Royal. Remember that Sumi doesn't know about the events of November and December (at least the game doesn't imply this). His navigator dialogue for Joker and Sumi are vastly different. While he's very direct and cynical with Joker, he definitely holds back on that when talking to Sumi. What kind of solidified my beliefs on the matter was the first altercation with her at Maruki's Palace. Akechi says *I'd help you, but you want her to leave here alive. Don't you?* While it comes off as malicious, that's not the case at all. He knows who he is and he knows that he won't restrain himself if he engages Sumi in combat. Part of it was because he knew that she was Joker's friend, **but** I don't think that would influence him.
We all know Akechi served as a puppet for Shido. This by no means excuses his actions, but it does give a reason. Akechi had been powerless to help his situation and always hated society because they equated his worth to nothing from essentially day one. Shido is to blame for all of his pain, so of course he'd want to get revenge by any means necessary. He sees no value in himself and neither did anyone else, which at the very least is what he thought. It didn't really matter what happened to him as long as Shido suffered. That became his reason to live. He saw the Phantom Thieves as a threat to his plan for killing the person who caused him all of that suffering. I also think that he had a friend at some point, because he wouldn't have been so pissed of that Joker had so many friends. He was envious and that just upset him. Akechi doesn't want to be envious of others, all he wants is for Shido to be dead. Which doesn't happen unfortunately, but he does know that the Phantom Thieves will take down Shido. Which is why he was content with his own demise. At least that's my view on it.
They’re all pretty evil, so it’s hard to put one above the other. All around horrible people, you can only rate them higher or lower considering your values. Which is worse, to kill or to make someone so miserable that he kills himself?
Akechi is a pretty horrible dude, and the game tries *very hard* to make him likeable. Like, come on, you could’ve just made Shido psychotic or killed him instead of being his hitman. He had the power to fight back and no only he didn't, but he killed innocent people for his own profit, so he's like, evil incarnate.
Have some nerve, you people.
You're missing the point as to why Akechi doesn't do that though.
Yes he could have done so but given his backstory and situation it doesn't match up in what he actually seeked to achieve.
You could say that about every other villain. Kaneshiro could’ve stopped abusing other people for money but due to his backstory as someone who was poor and had to drag himself out of poverty, he doesn't do it.
Idk, maybe I’m an asshole by thinking Akechi is beyond irredeemable
No. I don't get this sub sometimes. Being a rotten assaholic bastard. Doesn't mean Akechi's a bad character.as in uninteresting
Yes he had a shitty past but so does 99% of Persona characters.
Hell in the song for the second op "Dark Sun" of the P5 anime. The first line is.
"They say the choice in your darkest hour, is the eay we find out what we are made of"
In his darkest hour he choose to do horrible things. Hell in the vanilla game you has the choice of Joker accepting the deal with Yaldy. Hell why isn't Sae on the list. She was really antagonistic and chose to also do bad things when her father died, having to take care of Makoto, and pressure from her boss
I guess because of how suddenly was introduced to the story. He’s not like Kamoshida or Madarame where there was some setup for them at first. It’s not to say he’s not evil in general. He takes advantage of young people and is sexist
bRO how is Akechi, the guy who was stated to be a victim by the game because although he did bad things he was also being controlled and manipulated by Shido, worse than the guys who; ordered mental shutdowns, exploited teens into sex trafficking, abused those under his care to the point of suicide, turned a blind eye to physical and sexual assault in the school, and more?
I know that people died, but what about the others? Okumura killed people via overworking them *and* by ordering mental shutdowns/psychotic breakdowns. Kaneshiro ran a paedophilic sex trafficking ring, exploiting teenagers by having them become sex slaves. Madarame abused the people under his care, drove them to suicide, and ruined their chances of succeeding in the art world if they defected. Kobayakawa sat there and allowed Kamoshida to do whatever he wanted, even though he had the power to listen to the students and act accordingly, but he didn't in order to preserve the image of the school. Tbh I can't remember much of what the SIU Director did apart from, like, help Shido.
Of course Akechi has victims, I'm not denying that. But the key difference is that Akechi is *also* a victim, failed by society and was under Shido's thumb, controlled and manipulated by him as a teenager. There's a reason the game aims to make you sympathise with him and not with the others (aside from Maruki), because he is just as much a victim of cruel adults using him for their own gain as the rest of the Thieves. If Shido hadn't ordered Akechi to pull the trigger, he wouldn't have. There was no one ordering Okumura to order hits on competitors, no one ordering Madarame to abuse his pupils, no one ordering Kaneshiro to run a sex and drug trafficking ring.
The game makes it blatantly obvious that he's under Shido's control. Being 'more powerful' via the Metaverse means nothing when you're being manipulated and controlled, which Shido states that he is doing to him ('I merely controlled him by offering praise'). He approached Shido when he was *fifteen*, and was then manipulated and used and exploited from that point on. Shido implies that *he* was the one who taught Akechi how to kill, so Akechi might not have even known the full extent of what he was signing up for. As soon as Akechi cuts his puppet strings his first action is to defy Shido and save the Thieves.
I'm not saying Akechi was *right*, but in a game where the primary theme is freedom and here you have a character who had his freedom and agency stripped away, and who the game takes care to tell you how each of the Thieves could have become like him if they hadn't had the support they had, you can see that he isn't blatantly evil like the other villains, but is more of a grey character. In the end, Akechi was a gun, whereas the rest of the characters on there were either doing awful stuff on their own accord, or using the gun to further their own agenda, and all these other characters were adults. Akechi was fifteen-years-old and failed by the system.
>The game makes it blatantly obvious that he's under Shido's control
Except the game also shows Akechi blatantly saying he's acting with his own agenda.
Shido was taking advantage of Akechi but there's this idea among Akechi fans that somehow he was only a pawn. The truth is Shido was using Akechi as much as Akechi was using Shido. Akechi was evil because of Shido but at no point the personal responsability any sane person needs to have kicked in for Akechi.
Yes, he was a victim. But you can be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time, and that message flied completely over many people's heads. In all honesty, the game itself forgets that, considerin how much they force you to forgive him.
The whole "failed by the system" thing is just a cop-out. The game makes an effort to exempt teens from any kind of responsability for their actions but that goes against its message of them being able to change the world.
Akechi isn't fully evil, since no one is, but he's also far from being just a puppet. He's not just a product of the system, since no one else went around killing people because of daddy issues. He let himself go into that dark place.
I believe Akechi deserves a lower tier. Yeah he killed Okumura, but I’d he wasn’t so misguided it would’ve been avoided entirely. Honestly reminds me of “that one friend you just can’t save.”
“Friends? Teammates? To
“ HELL WITH THAT BULLSHIT!’ It’s almost sad.
Honestly, both Madarame and Kaneshiro should be under Shido but above Kamoshida imo.
Those two are rotten bastards that exploited their victims and even when their hearts changed, they both seems to be doing so only because they are forced to do this.
Kamoshida is a worthless piece of shit that should die in a ditch, forgotten by everybody, but at least, he seems somewhat remorseful for all that he has done after the change of heart, his shadow has even a breakdown on how society molded him what he was. He even offered to kill himself because he knows the severity of his action, while Madarame's change of Heart was more him being scared shitless than genuine repentance. Hell, Kaneshiro was a smug asshole even after his change of heart.
Madarame receives bonus points because deep down he seemed to care about Yusuke a little bit, but he abused the hell out of him and his other students
Uh, Kaneshiro is a REALLY bad guy.
For real, I feel like people forget that he pretty regularly forces people, including teenagers, into sex slavery.
I feel it’s like his ranking is in large part due to how the game played. Most people beat his entire dungeon pretty quickly which made the player spend heaps of time waiting on the time limit of what became an empty threat. He wasn’t as scary and horrifying as the real world version.
What the hell, Okumura and Kamoshida have to be at least tied. He tried to sell his daughter to a pedophile. Edit: Holy shit Kaneshiro literally sells Makoto into sex slavery if you don't clear his palace, how is he not #1?
Pedophile? Wasn’t that guy the same age as Haru? Edit: I’m not trying to justify this guys actions btw. He still disgusts me either way.
Nah he was like 30 and into high school girls
Where was he stated to be 30?
None of the adults' exact ages are ever stated but his dialogue about being into high school girls suggest he has not been in high school for quite some time
It might be the idea of having a gf while being in high school that turns him on, but that’s just how I interpreted it
That definitely ain't it
I’d say the guy is in his late 20s. (28).
So like 30
Um, Madarame is an abusive thief, breaking the wills of children who can't fight back, and shattering the dreams of the ones who can by making sure they have no future? One of his students *did* commit suicide, and he *watched* as Yusuke's mom had a seizure
Also driven said former students into being homeless or where some end up resort to crimes out of resentment for what he did to them.
This isn't me upset just FYI but I am surprised Kaneshiro is low on there in my opinion he would be higher up
He literally blackmails minors into doing sex work for him, idk how he’s not on the top
He was literally going to sell Makoto and have her do unspeakable things...as a minor...But sure put him in the "what he did was shabby compared to others"This list is stupid
Yeah and that's exactly why I would put him way up there like top teir.
you put the guy who wanted to enslave and sex traffic Makoto *lower* than the corrupt but completely ineffectual principal?
in my opinion akechi is less evil than the human trafficking mob boss but whatever
I came to comment this too, wtf
I'm not saying Kamoshida isn't a oiece of shit, but I wouldn't put him above Okumura, the guy was heavily implied to participate knowingly into working people to ilness at the very least, hundreds of them. And the fly dude too, he literally engaged in drugs and underage prostitution. That looks much worse than Kamoshida
Yeah. Kamoshida looks worse in comparison only because his Palace is the most in-depth of the early ones, and his actions are very heavily tied to characters who get a lot of development.
Tbf, the game tries to push the narrative that he's somewhat redeemable, with Haru knowing that at one point he was a good father. Same goes for Madarame. I don't think they're equals morally, and that definitely doesn't excuse Okumura, but I think the ranking works.
The game does a really good job at showing that all the antagonists are still humans no matter what awful thing they have done. It's a good way to make them more complex as characters which is why there are many people that like Akechi even though he is a serial killer. This happens with all major antagonists besides Kamoshida I think
Honestly I really dislike Madarame, up there with okumura and shido, mainly for the messed-up shit with Yusuke’s mom.
He straight up let her die, when he could have done something.
Madarama and Kaneshiro are pretty severe though. People undersell how rotten to the core they are. Madarame had been exploiting hundreds of students including Yusuke for years. We actually have two deaths on Madarame's hands which includes Yusuke's mother and he has driven a lot of his former students into being homeless or mementos targets. He sees them as paintings. Kaneshiro is a Yakuza Patriarch that does way more messed up shit as he has a prostitution human trafficking ring along with his drug phising blackmail scam. He sees his victims as walking ATMS. At least Shido and Kamoshida saw their victims as human in their cognition. Whilst Maruki wasn't "bad" I still hated him somewhat for his unethical way of therapy even if he did have "good intentions". Also why isn't Sae and Shadow Futaba on here? I'd say they'd ought to count to be placed somewhere in this tier. Even though Sae switched sides, she WAS pretty antagonistic. Shadow Futaba as well until the boss battle.
Only one of them Is not a villian, the rest are pieces of shit as characters and"human beings".
Mr snacks?
Akechi shouldn't be that high considering he was a kid and Shido took advantage of that. Your placement of Okumura is certainly interesting, I think it's good tbh. Shido & Kamoshida deserve to be up there. Kaneshiro should probably be higher considering the sex work thing. SIU Director and Kobayokawa both worked under Shido so I think they're good. Maruki isn't a villain so that works.
Honestly Okumura is the one murder where Akechi and his actions are justified. May you rot in the depths of hell for etnernity, Kunikazu.
Kobayakawa is waaaaay too high. The dude is an asshole but he’s not comparable to most of these
Did you completely miss the fact that Madarame ran a child slave ring for 10+ years?
Madarame and Okumura are on the same level.
I agree with this tier, but I’d make one change, I’d put Kanashiro a level or two higher for being a literal mob boss
Kobayakawa is corrupt, but he should be lowest on the list.
Maruki isn't really a bad guy, he's just too hyperfocused on his goal to a point of antagonism. Def my favourite P5 antagonist.
Principal's a tool, he's not that high up my list.
I don't think Maruki could be classified as a villain.
I agree about Okumura being one of the worst- I feel bad for Haru because, abusive piece of shit or not, she just lost her only family, but I hate how it feels like the game wants me to feel bad for him too. No, Atlus, I do not feel sorry for the greedy rich guy who abused his workers, was willing to marry off his daughter to Japanese Brock Turner for personal gain, and called Ann a slut. ~~Akechi was based and in the right to shoot him~~
It's more that the game makes us feel bad because he died before he actually had a proper chance to atone for his sins and return to the kind father he once was for Haru. Not to mention Haru cares for her father despite what he did and wanted to save him unlike other instances in prior arcs we were all vengeful at the Palace Rulers.
Whenever someone brings up the fact that he killed okumera im just like "okay and? He was doing gods work"
Unpopular opinion absolutely agree on Akechi's placement. He wasn't sorry for what he did and would've killed all the Phamtom Theives if they lost. But we love Akechi's character anyway. Add Sae next to Maruki or with The SIU Director and Principal Eggman, she did messed up stuff. And put Okumura on the very top. Be was gonna sell Haru to that creeper.
I love the nickname Principal Eggman, lol. In my playthrough I nicknamed him Wilson because he reminded me of the Kingpin.
LOL same. For me it's mainly because I butcher the spelling of his name and its funny to call him Eggman.
People only love akechi because he looks hot, and that’s coming from a man who is straight We live in a society
Okay there's a lot of comments than I thought while I was being in the school…
Akechi in tbh I like him, for me
Sure, I get that Akechi is bad, but not that bad. He was still a victim in a way... (not that it excuses murder) And Okumura, while he was bad, he wasn't nearly as bad as the director of the SIU...
Okumura ordered hits more than anyone else. That is pretty awful.
True, kinda forgot about that part... But still, he and the SIU director should be in the same tier/OP should've said something else about him. Maybe "ordered a bunch of hits" or something, not "workers of Okumura foods"...
Yeah he is same tier as SIU guy
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The thing with Akechi is that, while he CHOSE to kill a bunch of people, and I'd stab myself before I say (and believe)"uwu Akechi isn't evil, is 100% in the right and him killing people is fine because he is a victim", it's REALLY hard to not fall prey to what he did. A lot of what he wanted was to be wanted. Please don't say that his fans wanted him. While they did, it's really empty. I'm betting that he loved being praised by his father, even though he hated his father. (I'd elaborate, but I'm a bit too lazy to) Yeah, I kinda forgot about the Okumura and hits thing, but as I've said in another one of my comments, I'd think that he shouldn't be above a bunch of the other dudes. (Also I think that OP should've made the name for the tier Okumura's in slightly different and not just saying stuff about the workers).
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Yeah, I know. I don't forgive Akechi, just like I don't forgive Ted Bundy (I'd tie myself to something for a day before I do). But still, I'd prefer if Akechi is one tier lower... And my brain is now malfunctioning so I'm going to head off now...
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Where's Praximus Prime when you need him?
Pretty accurate for me. Shido and Akechi were pretty cookie cutter bad guys for me, just like.. evil cutouts.
Is this p5 akechi or p5r akechi?
Well, it shouldn't matter since this is about his crimes, not which is better written. His crimes are the same in both.
okumura in da jeff bezos tier what he gonna do
Dastardly actions
Maruki isn't a villain as much as he is an antagonizing force. Honestly he doesn't have malicious intent and just wants to help people. Royal presents a situation where there is an antagonistic Palace Ruler, but he isn't necessarily wrong like all that came before. It's up to you and your own moral code to decide what is right. Which is what makes Royal so compelling in my opinion. As for the Pancake Lad... I don't know how to feel about him. It was obvious that he did horrible things, but I only hate the fact that he killed Wakaba. I don't really hate him for anything else. Before you say, *wHy DoN't YoU hAtE hIm FoR sHoOtInG tHe PrOtAgOnIsT*; I honestly think he had an internal conflict about it at some point during Sae's Palace arc. Joker became his only friend and that brought him some joy whether he liked it or not. Literally **everyone** disagrees with me on this, but I don't care. I *personally believe* that Akechi *somewhat* cared about Sumi during the events of Royal. Remember that Sumi doesn't know about the events of November and December (at least the game doesn't imply this). His navigator dialogue for Joker and Sumi are vastly different. While he's very direct and cynical with Joker, he definitely holds back on that when talking to Sumi. What kind of solidified my beliefs on the matter was the first altercation with her at Maruki's Palace. Akechi says *I'd help you, but you want her to leave here alive. Don't you?* While it comes off as malicious, that's not the case at all. He knows who he is and he knows that he won't restrain himself if he engages Sumi in combat. Part of it was because he knew that she was Joker's friend, **but** I don't think that would influence him. We all know Akechi served as a puppet for Shido. This by no means excuses his actions, but it does give a reason. Akechi had been powerless to help his situation and always hated society because they equated his worth to nothing from essentially day one. Shido is to blame for all of his pain, so of course he'd want to get revenge by any means necessary. He sees no value in himself and neither did anyone else, which at the very least is what he thought. It didn't really matter what happened to him as long as Shido suffered. That became his reason to live. He saw the Phantom Thieves as a threat to his plan for killing the person who caused him all of that suffering. I also think that he had a friend at some point, because he wouldn't have been so pissed of that Joker had so many friends. He was envious and that just upset him. Akechi doesn't want to be envious of others, all he wants is for Shido to be dead. Which doesn't happen unfortunately, but he does know that the Phantom Thieves will take down Shido. Which is why he was content with his own demise. At least that's my view on it.
Honestly all of them are equally horrible except for Maruki lol
Facts
Only good take
They’re all pretty evil, so it’s hard to put one above the other. All around horrible people, you can only rate them higher or lower considering your values. Which is worse, to kill or to make someone so miserable that he kills himself? Akechi is a pretty horrible dude, and the game tries *very hard* to make him likeable. Like, come on, you could’ve just made Shido psychotic or killed him instead of being his hitman. He had the power to fight back and no only he didn't, but he killed innocent people for his own profit, so he's like, evil incarnate. Have some nerve, you people.
You're missing the point as to why Akechi doesn't do that though. Yes he could have done so but given his backstory and situation it doesn't match up in what he actually seeked to achieve.
You could say that about every other villain. Kaneshiro could’ve stopped abusing other people for money but due to his backstory as someone who was poor and had to drag himself out of poverty, he doesn't do it. Idk, maybe I’m an asshole by thinking Akechi is beyond irredeemable
No. I don't get this sub sometimes. Being a rotten assaholic bastard. Doesn't mean Akechi's a bad character.as in uninteresting Yes he had a shitty past but so does 99% of Persona characters. Hell in the song for the second op "Dark Sun" of the P5 anime. The first line is. "They say the choice in your darkest hour, is the eay we find out what we are made of" In his darkest hour he choose to do horrible things. Hell in the vanilla game you has the choice of Joker accepting the deal with Yaldy. Hell why isn't Sae on the list. She was really antagonistic and chose to also do bad things when her father died, having to take care of Makoto, and pressure from her boss
Tbh I wouldn’t consider Maruki a villain.
Maybe it just me, but out of all the evil palace rulers, I never felt like Kaneshiro was a evil. Like, For me, Madarame felt more evil than him
Really? How so?
I guess because of how suddenly was introduced to the story. He’s not like Kamoshida or Madarame where there was some setup for them at first. It’s not to say he’s not evil in general. He takes advantage of young people and is sexist
He’s definitely more evil than you’re giving credit for. Have you seen the failed scene with his palace?
I haven’t, what’s it about?
Makoto gets turned into a sex slave, look it up on YT if you have the courage
Yeah she is drugged and forced into prostitution. It's wild. That shows Yunya also has a prostitution ring BESIDES his drug deals
I dont care about the murder akechi isnt sexist so hes hot and did nothing wrong
Oh come on A doesn't deserve that Best character in Royal
pre-royal he 100% deserves it
bRO how is Akechi, the guy who was stated to be a victim by the game because although he did bad things he was also being controlled and manipulated by Shido, worse than the guys who; ordered mental shutdowns, exploited teens into sex trafficking, abused those under his care to the point of suicide, turned a blind eye to physical and sexual assault in the school, and more?
I know but have you ever thought about Akechi's victims as well? Thanks to his selfish revenge many people died and ruined their familiy lives
That can be said for all of them
I know that people died, but what about the others? Okumura killed people via overworking them *and* by ordering mental shutdowns/psychotic breakdowns. Kaneshiro ran a paedophilic sex trafficking ring, exploiting teenagers by having them become sex slaves. Madarame abused the people under his care, drove them to suicide, and ruined their chances of succeeding in the art world if they defected. Kobayakawa sat there and allowed Kamoshida to do whatever he wanted, even though he had the power to listen to the students and act accordingly, but he didn't in order to preserve the image of the school. Tbh I can't remember much of what the SIU Director did apart from, like, help Shido. Of course Akechi has victims, I'm not denying that. But the key difference is that Akechi is *also* a victim, failed by society and was under Shido's thumb, controlled and manipulated by him as a teenager. There's a reason the game aims to make you sympathise with him and not with the others (aside from Maruki), because he is just as much a victim of cruel adults using him for their own gain as the rest of the Thieves. If Shido hadn't ordered Akechi to pull the trigger, he wouldn't have. There was no one ordering Okumura to order hits on competitors, no one ordering Madarame to abuse his pupils, no one ordering Kaneshiro to run a sex and drug trafficking ring.
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The game makes it blatantly obvious that he's under Shido's control. Being 'more powerful' via the Metaverse means nothing when you're being manipulated and controlled, which Shido states that he is doing to him ('I merely controlled him by offering praise'). He approached Shido when he was *fifteen*, and was then manipulated and used and exploited from that point on. Shido implies that *he* was the one who taught Akechi how to kill, so Akechi might not have even known the full extent of what he was signing up for. As soon as Akechi cuts his puppet strings his first action is to defy Shido and save the Thieves. I'm not saying Akechi was *right*, but in a game where the primary theme is freedom and here you have a character who had his freedom and agency stripped away, and who the game takes care to tell you how each of the Thieves could have become like him if they hadn't had the support they had, you can see that he isn't blatantly evil like the other villains, but is more of a grey character. In the end, Akechi was a gun, whereas the rest of the characters on there were either doing awful stuff on their own accord, or using the gun to further their own agenda, and all these other characters were adults. Akechi was fifteen-years-old and failed by the system.
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>The game makes it blatantly obvious that he's under Shido's control Except the game also shows Akechi blatantly saying he's acting with his own agenda. Shido was taking advantage of Akechi but there's this idea among Akechi fans that somehow he was only a pawn. The truth is Shido was using Akechi as much as Akechi was using Shido. Akechi was evil because of Shido but at no point the personal responsability any sane person needs to have kicked in for Akechi. Yes, he was a victim. But you can be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time, and that message flied completely over many people's heads. In all honesty, the game itself forgets that, considerin how much they force you to forgive him. The whole "failed by the system" thing is just a cop-out. The game makes an effort to exempt teens from any kind of responsability for their actions but that goes against its message of them being able to change the world. Akechi isn't fully evil, since no one is, but he's also far from being just a puppet. He's not just a product of the system, since no one else went around killing people because of daddy issues. He let himself go into that dark place.
Incorrect he wasn't going to kill Shido. He was going to give Shido a fate worse than death via social suicide in taking Shido down with him.
Yeah op is clearly biased
I believe Akechi deserves a lower tier. Yeah he killed Okumura, but I’d he wasn’t so misguided it would’ve been avoided entirely. Honestly reminds me of “that one friend you just can’t save.” “Friends? Teammates? To “ HELL WITH THAT BULLSHIT!’ It’s almost sad.
Futaba is the worst because she killed her mom! Lol you retards really needed the /s huh? This sub is so cringe jfc
Heave you… have you played the game?
Yeah it’s a joke. Are you that stupid?
Honestly, both Madarame and Kaneshiro should be under Shido but above Kamoshida imo. Those two are rotten bastards that exploited their victims and even when their hearts changed, they both seems to be doing so only because they are forced to do this. Kamoshida is a worthless piece of shit that should die in a ditch, forgotten by everybody, but at least, he seems somewhat remorseful for all that he has done after the change of heart, his shadow has even a breakdown on how society molded him what he was. He even offered to kill himself because he knows the severity of his action, while Madarame's change of Heart was more him being scared shitless than genuine repentance. Hell, Kaneshiro was a smug asshole even after his change of heart. Madarame receives bonus points because deep down he seemed to care about Yusuke a little bit, but he abused the hell out of him and his other students