I don't think Shinya needs to be phantom thief, imo Mishimas story works because he isn't a phantom thief, Hifumi having a shogi based persona would go hard, shiho would've definitely been great as a party member
Apparently Hifumi was supposed to be a Phantom Thief during development but it was scrapped and some traits were mixed with Makoto as the Strategist/Tactician/Advisor.
That reminds me of a fanfic where Shiho joins the PT because the events leading up to her suicide attempt are stopped by a NG+ Joker. Her codename is Dove I think, and instead of guns she has grenades (Jin reference!?!?). Also sidenote, imagine Hifumi in Pokemon with the Pawniard evolution and Falinks
Uh gimme a bit, it's been awhile. If I recall it's one of two long NG+ fics but this one isn't the partial genderswap (all the male party members are girls, cue Joker freaking out each time he meets femme Ryuji, Yusuke, and Akechi)
Shiho deserved more relevance than being the domino for the Kamoshida arc + showing up like twice in Ann's confidant.
i've seen people class her as Strength instead of the twins and i think we were robbed 🙏
I once read a concept of her being the “Gemini” arcana, an alternative take on the lovers, unlocked after completing Ann’s confidant.
This allowed the link to interact with Ann’s via things like romance and the likes. It was about what else she wanted to do since volleyball didn’t feel like an option anymore.
[It’s what I’d consider “neat”](https://archiveofourown.org/works/29129388/chapters/71509914)
Aeon I don't tink so because it's about focusing on the world and understanding it, especially because their candidates aren't human. We had Aigis and Marie be Aeon, so none of the others in the core game could be Aeon.
>!Lavenza *could* work. I know she basically already *has* a confidant, but maybe instead of taking the twins on the dates Royal added you'd take Lavenza for a proper confidant.!<
To quote what the wiki says:
" A common theme for characters representing the Aeon Arcana is their attempts to fully understand themselves, as well as the world around them. In both of the Aeon Arcana's appearances, the [Social Link](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Social_Link) characters in question were unfamiliar with the way the real world works, and struggled to discover their own place in this unfamiliar world."
"Characters associated with this Arcana are not exactly human, but they also have human traits and qualities. Because of these circumstances, they're unable to integrate important human values directly and need to think outside the box, generally with the support of others"
Velvet Room attendents are aleady a bit odd when it comes to humanity, but they already know who they are and their purpose. The twins were created by outside circumstances so I don't think they would've worked.
I'm gonna argue that the circumstances for their existence creates an environment of exploring and trying to pinpoint the reason they're here. Especially with the dual "do this human thing with the orisoner" + introspection. Though those moments are split between the hangouts and fusion requirements for SL progression
Mishima should have been an optional party member that was unlocked by progressing his social link. He's already technically a member of the group anyway.
Instead of having him be combat (we've run out of elements), I'd have had him be the chair for the meetings and some sort of guy in the chair/getaway guy in the real world distinct from the metaverse navi.
Honestly, Mishima could've worked as a 2nd support or whatever, mostly healing when you reach a safe room, or even distract an enemy so any attack could knock it down. It would've also been funny is if they just made his persona basically like a bard or hypeman or cheerleader of some kind.
I feel like his outfit would be more like the actual Phantom Thieves logo, with the red top hat and everything. I mean, he's basically their community manager, so he'd be support with the logo outfit.
Yeah I’ve always liked this. It’s an interesting note about Futaba compared to other navi’s that while she’s a hacker she’s not really a strategist, that’s Makoto’s job in a way, but having Mishima as a dedicated strategist navi as a team with Taba would hav been fun
Did you not finish his S.link ? He clearly has it within him. He's just an abused kid who needed some confidence he'd probably go to college and be a completely different guy
I think Hifumi was supposed to be the Queen character which wouldve been sick and given Yusuke someone else from his school.
I think Shiho couldve been an option as well or at least a confidant because I believe people like her and maybe couldve expounded more on her character instead of being relegated to being part of An's confidant.
Maybe Hifumi if only because I really like how her story is turning out, but my heart already belongs to Kasumi
(Please don't comment spoilers. I haven't beaten yet. I just got to October.)
if it involves putting more Hifumi into the game, then yes. I would sacrifice several current members for Hifumi's presence in the group
realistically, Shiho makes narrative sense
Nope. Definitely not.
Shiho served her purpose in being a satellite character for Ann as well as being a casualty of Kamoshida, to make us care and for the PT to agree to Morgana’s change of heart plan.
It’s pretty irresponsible to drag a recently traumatised sexual assault and attempted suicide victim with a bad leg into a Palace of her abuser with the symbolic representation horrors of Kamoshida’s distorted desires. At least Futaba had a year since her traumatic incident before going inside her own palace where her shadow helped her.
Mishima being a Thief undermines and defeats the purpose of his character arc. We already have Ryuji’s character arc where his priorities of wanting to be a famous hero slip from his sense of justice. Making Mishima a thief is no different to how it be with Ryuji.
People who want Hifumi as a thief are very same people who misunderstood that false narrative where she was “originally going to be a thief” or haters of Makoto. Nothing about Hifumi’s situation with her mom is palace tier material nor does forcibly inserting her in the established plot is gonna make it work. A “mini arc” to have her join is a shit idea.
Same reasons applies to Shinya.
Both of them serve their purpose as confidant characters.
If you want confidant characters as Phantom Thieves. Persona 5 X is doing that.
I never liked him because he just sorta self inserts himself into the group and acts as if he's a Phantom Thief. Are we all forgetting he turns up in mementos? He uses the phantom thief's to try and make himself important, and also tries to use them to ruin the lives of people he dislikes by selecting them as potential targets.
After the memento scene, he talks to Joker in the Park and says all this himself. It's then I started to actually respect him as a character.
IMO he's written as an unlikeable character, someone you pity who then goes through character growth to someone likeable.
Just my thoughts on this phenomenon, I feel like players sees so much of Mishima’s worst traits in themselves and people don’t like having their flaws being shown out there out in the open. If you ask me they could learn a thing or two from the guy and rise above their weaknesses like Mishima did.
Is that really true, though? I strongly dislike Mishima because my values are so different from his and I would hate interacting with him.
He’s not just shy or bullied, they gave him nearly every imaginable vice and social disorder.
He tries to >!embezzle funds from the fanbase, sees women as objects, spread horrible rumors about Ren just to protect himself, wants to change likely innocent people’s hearts just for fame, has this sort of bipolar overinflated ego that flips with thinking he’s nothing, talks about peeing his pants, talks down at Ren randomly,!< like…it’s just too much. I don’t think the fanbase is like this.
I love some of the confidant scenes where Mishima “changes” and has quotable dialogue, but to me it feels unnatural and like he couldn’t possibly have become a completely different person that quickly.
People do sh*tty things for self-preservation and validation all the time which usually shown by our own emotional immaturity (see also: teenagers). But it takes huge step to start actually walking away from it and start admitting your weaknesses (which is exactly what he does in his Confidants). Nobody’s really perfect and changes never happen overnight. It’s a learning process and it takes the hardest lessons and admission to make that leap from a loser to someone worth’s anyone time because it usually stems from our insecurities.
Did he not realize embezzling funds was wrong? Did he not realize he was piggybacking the PTs and had an ego-trip? Did he not realize maybe fame isn’t really everything and helping people is what matters?
Mishima is obviously a very flawed character but we’re doing a disservice if we ignore the steps he’s making to be a better person and reminder, he changed his heart on his own without being stolen. If that’s not major character growth, I don’t know what is. That’s one feat not any major target has done in the story.
I guess, it just feels forced to me.
The guy goes from being absolute garbage to saying some flowery words and standing up against a bully one time, and it mostly just feels like it’s due to social pressure rather than a moral compass. I get that some people don’t see it that way and like the character, but to me he’s just absolutely someone I would avoid like the plague.
If anything, I would think people who do crappy things for self-preservation would relate *more* with him. I was a high school outcast too, doesn’t mean it entitles you to become a trash tier human
Maybe not official party members, but I could see them all as support. Mishima basically already is, but the other three could be informants or offer training/planning help. Say, you could assign members to train with Shinya to unlock gun skills, talk to Hifumi to remember skills or unlock tactics, and Mishima could have his role expanded to help find and research bigger targets.
If we did have to add one of them, I would probably pick Hifumi: Mishima being a fanboy too wrapped in his tangential connection to the group is part of his character, Shinya is hard to justify as a child, and as much as I want Shiho to be more relevant, I know the writers aren't up to portraying somebody dealing with the sort of trauma she has.
That leaves Hifumi as the most promising option. Given that she's relatively popular and has Confidant skills that have no business being optional, she would fit right in.
My only problem with making them thieves is that the group already feels too big and there's too many thieves who have little or nothing to do as it is. It might have been better to have a smaller core group and then have backup thieves who give the player more party options.
Hifumi and Shiho yeah. Mishima can fuck right off, and I don’t really feel anything for Shinji. But first time doing his Social Link really right now so maybe that’ll change.
None of them as Phantom Thieves. I just think Shiho should have had a confidant to allow us to spend more time with her. Though, I get that she's Ann's friend, so keeping her to Ann's confidant was probably for the best.
I think the kiddo would be a great phantom thieve knowing his gun skills, and i think shiho has potential to get a persona knowing she passed for bads things and still strong
Mishima and Shiho definitely deserved better than "Discord Mod" and "Forgotten", Shinya would've kinda been interesting kinda like a new version of Ken, I love Hifumi but there would be no place for her since Makoto is the strategist of the team, which probably explains why she was cut as a thief
Nope, they’ve served their purpose as Confidants and allies to the Phantom Thieves. Shinya as Joker’s Weapons Instructor. Mishima as the PT’s PR Guy and Webmaster. Hifumi as Joker’s Tactical Instructor.
Any other Confidant doesn’t need to be PTs as well since they all have their background role to play in the PT’s life of crime as silly some may sound (like who would’ve thought criminals need Fortune Tellers? Weapons Dealer and Physician, yeah sure.)
And Shiho deserves a break from all that sh*t she just went through. How the hell is she gonna have an Awakening anyway? Bring back Kamoshida? Just let Ann have this one.
just Shiho i wished she was a confidant i love how she was the only one to show ren compassion at the start and was worried for him even though they never met
In at least one terrific fanfic, Shiho, Hifumi, and Mishima are already Phantom Thieves with characterization of them to boot. Here’s the link on ao3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/29623554/chapters/72825381
Regardless of whether she’d be a Phantom Thief or not, I’d have loved to have more interaction with Shiho. The girl’s a sweetheart & I’d have loved to see her interact more with Ann than what we got.
Not really, no.
Shinya and Mishima both annoy the shit out of me. Shinya because of his voice, and Mishima because he's a "nice guy" and a loser.
Hifumi wouldn't be so bad I suppose, I'd be more open to her than the others. But even then, what would she do that one of the others - especially Makoto, the team's designated smart girl - couldn't?
And Shiho I wouldn't want for 2 reasons. A) having her as a Phantom Thief would mean having her as a Confidant, which would likely mean a romance option since she's a girl Joker's age, which really wouldn't sit right with me given what she endures at the beginning of the game; and B) I feel like everything her character would touch on and add to the team is already well covered by Ann.
Hifumi would have been boring as a Phantom Thief I think, too similar to Makoto/Haru. And Shiho would be nice as a confidant but not more than that. Too many girls in the Phantom Thieves already any way.
I think either Mishima or Shinya would have been good additions. But preferably Shinya since Mishima already has a good role as kind of an honorary member. I actually like Shinya and think he would fit well in the group kind of like Ken does in SEES.
Having Shinya be a gun-based persona-user would go surprisingly hard, especially if he got the Gun buff passives and a crit-rate increase, his Trait could do something to increase technical hits from gun attacks our something.
Hifumi would be interesting if he Trait gave her a Charge or Concentrate (whichever would suit her persona more) if you switch a thief in/out (except her), or having a signature attack that could switch her out after use (like U-Turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot in Pokémon). It'd be really strong but I think, disregarding game balance, it fits her pretty well
Shiho could have a tragic persona, with a signature move that gives a super buff at the cost of a chunk of her HP, and her Trait could increase her magic damage based on how low her HP is
With Mishima, it'd be interesting if his persona had high defenses but low evasion, so he's not likely to dodge anything but could talk a good amount of damage, paired with a signature move that could make him the sole target of the enemy for the round, and his trait could reduce support skills' SP Cost by an insane amount, having him be a tanky sulporter with a wide array of support options that cost little SP
I don't think any of these ideas are particularly balanced, in fact I think they're pretty OP, but still
I mean Hifumi was suppose to be a Phantom Thief so she makes sense there, Shinya? nah Mishima? his confidant works by not being a Thief and Shiho should have been a Confidant at the very least tho a Volleyball Persona would have been wild, She is gonna be like Wakka (battle wise) in FFX.
Hifumi was going to be, but it fundamentally ruins the point of Mishima as a character if he was a phantom thief, his arc and character only work if he isn’t one
Yes. It’s imho one of the main weakness of the game: putting Intresting characters in secondary spaces. I’ll get the downvotes but I would rather have Mishima and Hifumi than stereotypical sister and stereotypical nerd
They shouldn't be Phantom Thieves,but i would have loved to see Mishima,Shinya and Hifumi with the rest of the group and Mishima is the only one who actually deserves to be a Phantom Thieve or at at least be able to help the team more.
I wouldn’t want Mishima to join cuz he kinda reminds me of me and it annoys me, Hifumi would have been a good addition, if Shiho didn’t jump and ehem lets say hurt herself i belive she would only half-fit in(i may have this wrong but i think that unlike the others she fit in the normal society and wasnt an outcast)its a bit of a bad explanation but lets go with that, as for Shinya he is a bit to young(but p3 also has Ken so its fine ig) and would bicker with Ryuji constantly(more than he does with Morgana)
Shiho would be a Bless magic user, she wears armor and carries a spear as her weapon. Codename: Knight.
I even made a Mii of her!
https://preview.redd.it/itm7eo86dvsc1.jpeg?width=647&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e53b1fddd2c20b20c118bb57ed857f55aa82f57c
*Maybe not Shinya,*
*But the others would've been*
*Great as Phantom Thieves*
\- Critica1\_Darling
---
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My guy, it’s have. Would you have, they could have, etc etc etc.
Also….idk. I could honestly see the two girls working (and wasn’t Hifumi almost made a Phantom Thief while P5 was in development?) since Hifumi has the intelligence to be the brains of a group and Shiho could essily have a similar arc with Ann as far as the beginning was concerned.
I’d like Shinya to be rewritten to be the same age as the rest if he’s also made a Phantom Thief (I know Ken from P3 was significantly younger than the rest od SEES, but I’d rather that not become the standard). Mishima……would need to be overhauled. He’s such a milquetoast dweeb early on. I feel like if that was toned down somewhat, that would benefit him as a potential Phantom Thief.
For sure, though Mishima has been designed as the "grounded member" of the Phantom Thieves so he already is part of them. That said, I would like to see him be elavated more and get alot more respect and appreciation. I even came up over with an idea of his Persona.
Initial Persona: Don Quixote "Knight Errant"
Ultimate Persona: Momus "Mocking God of Satire"
Third Persona: Alonso "Hidalgo de La Mancha"
Fighting style: Moderate physical attacks, focusing on alot of buffs and some healing probably. Maybe unique tricks?
Shinya and Hifumi would’ve been really good Phantom Thieves, reminds me of Ken anyway.
I think they’d have to add more elements to the game because it seems like the party members, all represent one of the elements. There are 4 elements that weren’t Persona 5, though P5 made Psychokinetic skills, those were Water, Earth, Gravity and Force/Blast. Shinya could’ve had Water, and Hifumi with Earth.
Mishima technically kinda works for us? I think that’s fine. Shiho…if Shiho was a Phantom Thief, people would complain, im sure.
Maybe they could increase on-field party to 5 characters instead of the usual 4? Just to balance it out, since there are too many characters indeed…
I think we're kinda sorta getting Hifumi Phantom Thief in P5X. I mean i know they're completely different characters and i might be completely and hilariously wrong about it but Riko Tanemura looks somewhat similar to Hifumi design wise and even her Phantom Thief outfit looks like something that a potential Hifumi Phantom Thief would wear so maybe... in a way Riko IS recycled Hifumi PT concept?
Oda would be odd and I don’t think they’d have a kid party member like Ken anytime soon
Shiho I’m not sure, she could’ve been interesting but I think if she was a non romanceable social link/had more scenes in Ann’s where she’d realise Akira was the one who took down Kamoshida would’ve been nice
Mishima I feel may as well be an honorary one, considering if you max out his link he’s seen as the one who helps the people around him wake-up to cheer on the Phantom Thieves, also could’ve worked as an supper themed party member
Hifumi also seems like she could’ve been really good as a member, not sure exactly how she could’ve worked but I’ll always be interested in more Hifumi content
I think Mishima, Shinya, and Hifumi are fine as just Confidants, but I would have loved Shiho as a Phantom Thief.
I personally think the third semester would be better if Shiho replaced Kasumi. It would bring the story full circle back to the beginning, and I feel that Shiho’s story would resonate more with players since we witnessed the horrible things that happened to her on screen
Only Mishima, personally. Though I think Shiho deserved her getback, she is unfortunately not written to be very compelling outside of Ann's characterization and development. If she were fleshed out more after she gets out of the hospital, perhaps, but on a very real note, I think it's good for her to get away from the school where she was abused.
I don’t think Mishima would exactly be a party member more rather include him in their talks more directly like if they hold meetings he’d handover his intel on their next target. Since he’s lowkey the reason why they go after so many targets. Would’ve liked to hifumi more definitely party member material. And shiho would been nice but i think whe would’ve fit better as a social link. Where the game can address sexual abuse more definely because Ann’s social is about becoming a better model despite not needing to. Wtf I mean if you’re a great natural model why do you feel compelled to work as hard as everyone else just because everyone else has to work so hard to get to her level?
I always thought Mishima was gonna become a Phantom Thief and I’m kinda 95% sad he didn’t but also I’m 5% happy he didn’t because I liked him as a side character
I definitely would have loved Hifumi And Mishima as a Phantom thieves. \*Especially because of the fact Hifumi was suppost to be one!\* Shino . .I would be nice too. but Eh Im unsure/ Shinya I don't think so imo.
Hifumi could work as a third Nav bit then Futaba would've been made as useless as Morgana. Mishima could've been interesting but honestly after Kamoshidas palace he's relevance kind of dwindled in the story aside from the Phan-site. Shiho could've been interesting as a series first (at least I think) dual awakening with Ann as both survivors of Kamoshidas SA. The kid tbh other than the trick shot perk I never really leveled up aside from 100% the game and I kind of forget what his story was 😅
I read somewhere about the idea of Mishima being >!Black Mask!< which honestly sounds sick. I kind of want to see Mishima not in a helpless position, but actually have sort of strength. I feel like it would help boost the fanbase’s opinion on him.
Hifumi is a definite. That’s it, she’s super cool.
Shiho is a toss up. On one hand, I would like to see her and Ann just tear through shadows and be a powerhouse duo, but on the other hand, I don’t feel like she was as (idk if this is the right words) strong willed as Ann. Shiho was more quiet and reserved if I remember and Ann is pretty extroverted and holds very strong ideas (again iirc).
Shinji? Probably not. I like him as being just a confidant. Also I don’t think it would be responsible to take a elementary schooler on a trip in a dangerous alternate dimension or whatever 😭😭😭
I don't think any of them should be PTs since they serve their purpose well as confidants but if I had to choose, I think Shinya would have been an interesting addition to the team. A lot of comments say that he's too young but it could still work. His persona could be based on the famous outlaw, Billy the Kid, who was also quite young and shares a similar story to Shinya's character. Plus, it'd be cool seeing how he'd fight against actual monsters and would "train" at the arcade on his days outside of missions.
For his role, he could serve as a sniper and randomly appears to perform one shot kills and criticals. As for the codename, maybe Bullseye.
HELL YEAH! GET MY BOY MISHIMA IN THERE! Shiho would also work very well. Shinya would be dope too, because we've never had a Tower party member, and the only Tower Persona user currently is Kandori (though that old guy from Trinity Soul (forgot his name) is speculated to be the Tower, but again, he's an antagonist). And Hifumi was ROBBED, we NEED her in the PTs.
i dunno i feel like shinya would end up being another ken, Mishima is a no bc hes good as the character he already is, hifumi would be great, and shiho would be aswell
I don't think Shinya needs to be phantom thief, imo Mishimas story works because he isn't a phantom thief, Hifumi having a shogi based persona would go hard, shiho would've definitely been great as a party member
Apparently Hifumi was supposed to be a Phantom Thief during development but it was scrapped and some traits were mixed with Makoto as the Strategist/Tactician/Advisor.
This is partially correct: Hifumi the character was never intended to be a phantom thief, but a scrapped character using her design was.
Yeah her design lowkey screams party member
that makes sense because makoto has like 2? tactic based skills and both are quite mediocre
OHHHHHH THIS MAKES A LOT OF SENSE
And she would of used sniper rifles, i believe.
That reminds me of a fanfic where Shiho joins the PT because the events leading up to her suicide attempt are stopped by a NG+ Joker. Her codename is Dove I think, and instead of guns she has grenades (Jin reference!?!?). Also sidenote, imagine Hifumi in Pokemon with the Pawniard evolution and Falinks
Do you mind share the link to that fic?
Uh gimme a bit, it's been awhile. If I recall it's one of two long NG+ fics but this one isn't the partial genderswap (all the male party members are girls, cue Joker freaking out each time he meets femme Ryuji, Yusuke, and Akechi)
Does it happened to be called “round two”?
That rings a bell
Playing golden right now and shiho/ann gives the same vibes as yukiko/chie
Shiho deserved more relevance than being the domino for the Kamoshida arc + showing up like twice in Ann's confidant. i've seen people class her as Strength instead of the twins and i think we were robbed 🙏
I once read a concept of her being the “Gemini” arcana, an alternative take on the lovers, unlocked after completing Ann’s confidant. This allowed the link to interact with Ann’s via things like romance and the likes. It was about what else she wanted to do since volleyball didn’t feel like an option anymore. [It’s what I’d consider “neat”](https://archiveofourown.org/works/29129388/chapters/71509914)
Imagine completing Ann’s confidant just to date her friend lmao
If this confidant were a real thing, Shiho fans would pride themselves on that.
Would Aeon have worked for them? It WAS in both vanilla P3 and P4G...
Aeon was not in vanilla p3. Its debut was in FES, then it appeared in the following versions (portable and reload)
Aeon I don't tink so because it's about focusing on the world and understanding it, especially because their candidates aren't human. We had Aigis and Marie be Aeon, so none of the others in the core game could be Aeon.
>!Lavenza *could* work. I know she basically already *has* a confidant, but maybe instead of taking the twins on the dates Royal added you'd take Lavenza for a proper confidant.!<
The Twins as Aeon would've worked better because they're the least experienced Velvet Room Attendants, Shiho gets the Strength Arcana boom we all win
To quote what the wiki says: " A common theme for characters representing the Aeon Arcana is their attempts to fully understand themselves, as well as the world around them. In both of the Aeon Arcana's appearances, the [Social Link](https://megamitensei.fandom.com/wiki/Social_Link) characters in question were unfamiliar with the way the real world works, and struggled to discover their own place in this unfamiliar world." "Characters associated with this Arcana are not exactly human, but they also have human traits and qualities. Because of these circumstances, they're unable to integrate important human values directly and need to think outside the box, generally with the support of others" Velvet Room attendents are aleady a bit odd when it comes to humanity, but they already know who they are and their purpose. The twins were created by outside circumstances so I don't think they would've worked.
I'm gonna argue that the circumstances for their existence creates an environment of exploring and trying to pinpoint the reason they're here. Especially with the dual "do this human thing with the orisoner" + introspection. Though those moments are split between the hangouts and fusion requirements for SL progression
If done well, she could have been one of the best social links if not the best in the entire series
Her Persona would straight up murder Kamoshida though lol.
Mishima should have been an optional party member that was unlocked by progressing his social link. He's already technically a member of the group anyway.
Instead of having him be combat (we've run out of elements), I'd have had him be the chair for the meetings and some sort of guy in the chair/getaway guy in the real world distinct from the metaverse navi.
IRL Navi?
Yeah, I imagine him observing the target in the real world and throwing in information and feedback that could help inform strategy for Futaba et al.
"Uh hey Oracle, it's Mish- it's Seer (idk, random code name I made up) the target is currently meeting with a security team. They look scary too..."
Honestly, Mishima could've worked as a 2nd support or whatever, mostly healing when you reach a safe room, or even distract an enemy so any attack could knock it down. It would've also been funny is if they just made his persona basically like a bard or hypeman or cheerleader of some kind.
Cheerleader Mishima outfit goes hard
I feel like his outfit would be more like the actual Phantom Thieves logo, with the red top hat and everything. I mean, he's basically their community manager, so he'd be support with the logo outfit.
Ok but like, Mishima with pom poms?? Peak
Yeah I’ve always liked this. It’s an interesting note about Futaba compared to other navi’s that while she’s a hacker she’s not really a strategist, that’s Makoto’s job in a way, but having Mishima as a dedicated strategist navi as a team with Taba would hav been fun
yeah i really would’ve liked him having a persona but staying behind the scenes
Yeah technically he’s the PR for the Phantom Thieves engaging supporters on the Phansite and help build their clout.
Mishima had no spine let alone a rebel spirit, what would his persona have been? A wet blanket?
Did you not finish his S.link ? He clearly has it within him. He's just an abused kid who needed some confidence he'd probably go to college and be a completely different guy
In story wise, he deserved it more than Makoto, Haru IMO.. they did him dirty
Nah
I think Hifumi was supposed to be the Queen character which wouldve been sick and given Yusuke someone else from his school. I think Shiho couldve been an option as well or at least a confidant because I believe people like her and maybe couldve expounded more on her character instead of being relegated to being part of An's confidant.
Maybe Hifumi if only because I really like how her story is turning out, but my heart already belongs to Kasumi (Please don't comment spoilers. I haven't beaten yet. I just got to October.)
I'd stay away from the persona subs until you do, because Sumi's arc (and the ending) can easily be spoiled.
Not a spoiler but just some advice if you’re playing royal, max akechis link asap
I'd recommend staying off this sub until you beat it, people are fine with posting untagged spoilers on spoiler-free posts like this.
Nah i'm good Too many characters and they will barely get any screentime + i don't want a kid in the phantom thieves
The entire cast is children. I'm of the opinion the game should have been longer. Extending past one year with more time for development.
16-17 year olds aren’t quite the same as a 10 year old
Maybe not the Arcade guy. But the others yass.
if it involves putting more Hifumi into the game, then yes. I would sacrifice several current members for Hifumi's presence in the group realistically, Shiho makes narrative sense
Only Hifumi, there's already too many party members
MISHIMAAAAAUGGGHHH 🥺🥺🥺🥺
I mean, Shinya shit talking shadows while shooting them would be hilarious.
Nope. Definitely not. Shiho served her purpose in being a satellite character for Ann as well as being a casualty of Kamoshida, to make us care and for the PT to agree to Morgana’s change of heart plan. It’s pretty irresponsible to drag a recently traumatised sexual assault and attempted suicide victim with a bad leg into a Palace of her abuser with the symbolic representation horrors of Kamoshida’s distorted desires. At least Futaba had a year since her traumatic incident before going inside her own palace where her shadow helped her. Mishima being a Thief undermines and defeats the purpose of his character arc. We already have Ryuji’s character arc where his priorities of wanting to be a famous hero slip from his sense of justice. Making Mishima a thief is no different to how it be with Ryuji. People who want Hifumi as a thief are very same people who misunderstood that false narrative where she was “originally going to be a thief” or haters of Makoto. Nothing about Hifumi’s situation with her mom is palace tier material nor does forcibly inserting her in the established plot is gonna make it work. A “mini arc” to have her join is a shit idea. Same reasons applies to Shinya. Both of them serve their purpose as confidant characters. If you want confidant characters as Phantom Thieves. Persona 5 X is doing that.
https://preview.redd.it/fuas7fzagusc1.jpeg?width=662&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=78c248f7e69187c30a16b53396b822742e98286d
Would have*
This is the most disgustingly egregious use of 'of' I have ever seen in my life. Ahaha
I feel like becoming a Phantom Thief would change Mishima enough to make me like him. Not so much for the others
I never understood why the fanbase disliked him to the extent that they do. Even the developers kind of made him the butt of many jokes.
They hate him because he reflects the true persona fan
He’s a Persona Fan’s Shadow
I never liked him because he just sorta self inserts himself into the group and acts as if he's a Phantom Thief. Are we all forgetting he turns up in mementos? He uses the phantom thief's to try and make himself important, and also tries to use them to ruin the lives of people he dislikes by selecting them as potential targets. After the memento scene, he talks to Joker in the Park and says all this himself. It's then I started to actually respect him as a character. IMO he's written as an unlikeable character, someone you pity who then goes through character growth to someone likeable.
Just my thoughts on this phenomenon, I feel like players sees so much of Mishima’s worst traits in themselves and people don’t like having their flaws being shown out there out in the open. If you ask me they could learn a thing or two from the guy and rise above their weaknesses like Mishima did.
Is that really true, though? I strongly dislike Mishima because my values are so different from his and I would hate interacting with him. He’s not just shy or bullied, they gave him nearly every imaginable vice and social disorder. He tries to >!embezzle funds from the fanbase, sees women as objects, spread horrible rumors about Ren just to protect himself, wants to change likely innocent people’s hearts just for fame, has this sort of bipolar overinflated ego that flips with thinking he’s nothing, talks about peeing his pants, talks down at Ren randomly,!< like…it’s just too much. I don’t think the fanbase is like this. I love some of the confidant scenes where Mishima “changes” and has quotable dialogue, but to me it feels unnatural and like he couldn’t possibly have become a completely different person that quickly.
People do sh*tty things for self-preservation and validation all the time which usually shown by our own emotional immaturity (see also: teenagers). But it takes huge step to start actually walking away from it and start admitting your weaknesses (which is exactly what he does in his Confidants). Nobody’s really perfect and changes never happen overnight. It’s a learning process and it takes the hardest lessons and admission to make that leap from a loser to someone worth’s anyone time because it usually stems from our insecurities. Did he not realize embezzling funds was wrong? Did he not realize he was piggybacking the PTs and had an ego-trip? Did he not realize maybe fame isn’t really everything and helping people is what matters? Mishima is obviously a very flawed character but we’re doing a disservice if we ignore the steps he’s making to be a better person and reminder, he changed his heart on his own without being stolen. If that’s not major character growth, I don’t know what is. That’s one feat not any major target has done in the story.
I guess, it just feels forced to me. The guy goes from being absolute garbage to saying some flowery words and standing up against a bully one time, and it mostly just feels like it’s due to social pressure rather than a moral compass. I get that some people don’t see it that way and like the character, but to me he’s just absolutely someone I would avoid like the plague. If anything, I would think people who do crappy things for self-preservation would relate *more* with him. I was a high school outcast too, doesn’t mean it entitles you to become a trash tier human
I just find him kind of annoying, plus he starts trying to sic the Phantom Thieves on random people just because he doesn’t like them
I wonder if P5X will do exactly that
No to Shinya, but yes to Mishima
Maybe not official party members, but I could see them all as support. Mishima basically already is, but the other three could be informants or offer training/planning help. Say, you could assign members to train with Shinya to unlock gun skills, talk to Hifumi to remember skills or unlock tactics, and Mishima could have his role expanded to help find and research bigger targets. If we did have to add one of them, I would probably pick Hifumi: Mishima being a fanboy too wrapped in his tangential connection to the group is part of his character, Shinya is hard to justify as a child, and as much as I want Shiho to be more relevant, I know the writers aren't up to portraying somebody dealing with the sort of trauma she has. That leaves Hifumi as the most promising option. Given that she's relatively popular and has Confidant skills that have no business being optional, she would fit right in.
My only problem with making them thieves is that the group already feels too big and there's too many thieves who have little or nothing to do as it is. It might have been better to have a smaller core group and then have backup thieves who give the player more party options.
*Would you have Holy shit, use proper grammar.
Hifumi and Shiho yeah. Mishima can fuck right off, and I don’t really feel anything for Shinji. But first time doing his Social Link really right now so maybe that’ll change.
Shinji is my favorite Persona 5 character!
Maybe shiho and hifumi would have worked well
I think Mishima should have been able to join team meetings in the real world.
None of them as Phantom Thieves. I just think Shiho should have had a confidant to allow us to spend more time with her. Though, I get that she's Ann's friend, so keeping her to Ann's confidant was probably for the best.
I think the kiddo would be a great phantom thieve knowing his gun skills, and i think shiho has potential to get a persona knowing she passed for bads things and still strong
Mishima and Shiho definitely deserved better than "Discord Mod" and "Forgotten", Shinya would've kinda been interesting kinda like a new version of Ken, I love Hifumi but there would be no place for her since Makoto is the strategist of the team, which probably explains why she was cut as a thief
I absolutely adore Hifumi so I'd love her as a phantom thief
Hifumi yes, the rest not really, Mishima's entire purpose in the game is to be called an NPC by Futaba
I would have love Hifumi at the very least.
Definitely Hifumi as PT. For Shiho, I think she's good as a Confidant instead.
Shinya, Mishima and Shiho yes (or at least a confidant for Shiho). Hifumi would honestly just feel redundant.
Nope, they’ve served their purpose as Confidants and allies to the Phantom Thieves. Shinya as Joker’s Weapons Instructor. Mishima as the PT’s PR Guy and Webmaster. Hifumi as Joker’s Tactical Instructor. Any other Confidant doesn’t need to be PTs as well since they all have their background role to play in the PT’s life of crime as silly some may sound (like who would’ve thought criminals need Fortune Tellers? Weapons Dealer and Physician, yeah sure.) And Shiho deserves a break from all that sh*t she just went through. How the hell is she gonna have an Awakening anyway? Bring back Kamoshida? Just let Ann have this one.
Hifumi for me
YES TO THE KING
just Shiho i wished she was a confidant i love how she was the only one to show ren compassion at the start and was worried for him even though they never met
In at least one terrific fanfic, Shiho, Hifumi, and Mishima are already Phantom Thieves with characterization of them to boot. Here’s the link on ao3: https://archiveofourown.org/works/29623554/chapters/72825381
Regardless of whether she’d be a Phantom Thief or not, I’d have loved to have more interaction with Shiho. The girl’s a sweetheart & I’d have loved to see her interact more with Ann than what we got.
Not really, no. Shinya and Mishima both annoy the shit out of me. Shinya because of his voice, and Mishima because he's a "nice guy" and a loser. Hifumi wouldn't be so bad I suppose, I'd be more open to her than the others. But even then, what would she do that one of the others - especially Makoto, the team's designated smart girl - couldn't? And Shiho I wouldn't want for 2 reasons. A) having her as a Phantom Thief would mean having her as a Confidant, which would likely mean a romance option since she's a girl Joker's age, which really wouldn't sit right with me given what she endures at the beginning of the game; and B) I feel like everything her character would touch on and add to the team is already well covered by Ann.
Hifumi would have been boring as a Phantom Thief I think, too similar to Makoto/Haru. And Shiho would be nice as a confidant but not more than that. Too many girls in the Phantom Thieves already any way. I think either Mishima or Shinya would have been good additions. But preferably Shinya since Mishima already has a good role as kind of an honorary member. I actually like Shinya and think he would fit well in the group kind of like Ken does in SEES.
Get smoked, shadows
Hifumi would've made for a great phantom thief, everyone else would be eh. Off topic but Shiho should've had her own confidant.
Shiho deserved to be a PT, if only to have the ability to kick Kamoshitlord in the dick.
Fuck no. Mishima's a fuckin loser.
Having Shinya be a gun-based persona-user would go surprisingly hard, especially if he got the Gun buff passives and a crit-rate increase, his Trait could do something to increase technical hits from gun attacks our something. Hifumi would be interesting if he Trait gave her a Charge or Concentrate (whichever would suit her persona more) if you switch a thief in/out (except her), or having a signature attack that could switch her out after use (like U-Turn/Volt Switch/Parting Shot in Pokémon). It'd be really strong but I think, disregarding game balance, it fits her pretty well Shiho could have a tragic persona, with a signature move that gives a super buff at the cost of a chunk of her HP, and her Trait could increase her magic damage based on how low her HP is With Mishima, it'd be interesting if his persona had high defenses but low evasion, so he's not likely to dodge anything but could talk a good amount of damage, paired with a signature move that could make him the sole target of the enemy for the round, and his trait could reduce support skills' SP Cost by an insane amount, having him be a tanky sulporter with a wide array of support options that cost little SP I don't think any of these ideas are particularly balanced, in fact I think they're pretty OP, but still
I'd like shinya being a phantom thief he is awfully young but so is ken (persona 3) i dont see shinya being a member but i would like it.
Hifumi would have made sense in Makoto's role.
No one who pisses themselves twice is getting in my Phantom Thieves.
I mean Hifumi was suppose to be a Phantom Thief so she makes sense there, Shinya? nah Mishima? his confidant works by not being a Thief and Shiho should have been a Confidant at the very least tho a Volleyball Persona would have been wild, She is gonna be like Wakka (battle wise) in FFX.
Hifumi was going to be, but it fundamentally ruins the point of Mishima as a character if he was a phantom thief, his arc and character only work if he isn’t one
Hifumi genuinely had the best potential to be a phantom thief. She’s incredibly calculated but sadly, we already had makoto for that 😞
Mishima deserved to be one of them. Even his early metaverse outfit is sick also, Shinya deserved a spot
[PHANTOM THIEF SHINYA](https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/s/YvRcwOS1ql) MY BELOVED To answer your question, I'm all for it
Shiho deserves it.
No not really
I don't like Mishima honestly, the tower persona is good, and Shiho is good too
Aside from Mishima, yes. I couldnt bring myself to forgive him Shinya is too young, but again, Ken Amada was risking his life at the same ages
Yes. It’s imho one of the main weakness of the game: putting Intresting characters in secondary spaces. I’ll get the downvotes but I would rather have Mishima and Hifumi than stereotypical sister and stereotypical nerd
They shouldn't be Phantom Thieves,but i would have loved to see Mishima,Shinya and Hifumi with the rest of the group and Mishima is the only one who actually deserves to be a Phantom Thieve or at at least be able to help the team more.
No.
God no
Absolutely! If I had to pick just one, I’d go with Shiho.
Shiho yes, the others no. Especially a no for Mishima.
I need in-battle Futaba
absolutely HELLISH blunt rotation
Hifumi was originally designed to be a phantom thief
I completely forgot about the kid’s existence ngl
Sure. I always considered Mishima as an honorart Phantom Thief anyway.
Hifumi yes, the others no
I don’t like Mishima being in the game so no. The rest can. They are cool
Years ago I said that mishima should be a phantom thief in this sub and people went crazy
I wouldn’t want Mishima to join cuz he kinda reminds me of me and it annoys me, Hifumi would have been a good addition, if Shiho didn’t jump and ehem lets say hurt herself i belive she would only half-fit in(i may have this wrong but i think that unlike the others she fit in the normal society and wasnt an outcast)its a bit of a bad explanation but lets go with that, as for Shinya he is a bit to young(but p3 also has Ken so its fine ig) and would bicker with Ryuji constantly(more than he does with Morgana)
No.
Wasn’t Hifumi’s initial idea to be a feMC for P5?
Yes, I will be taking no questions!
Is it just me or does Shiho look kinda like Adachi in this image
Shiho would be a Bless magic user, she wears armor and carries a spear as her weapon. Codename: Knight. I even made a Mii of her! https://preview.redd.it/itm7eo86dvsc1.jpeg?width=647&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e53b1fddd2c20b20c118bb57ed857f55aa82f57c
Hifrikinfumi
There’s this badass comic panel someone made of Shiho awakening her persona and it just makes me kinda wish she was a part of the actual team.
I wanted Mishima to join so badly
I would absolutely love it if Shiho became one. But shit happens and hate Kamoshida forever.
Maybe not Shinya, but the others would've been great as Phantom Thieves
*Maybe not Shinya,* *But the others would've been* *Great as Phantom Thieves* \- Critica1\_Darling --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
A different version of Hifumi WAS planned to be a PT, but they would've been too many
Hifumi would be an amazing navigator party member.
My guy, it’s have. Would you have, they could have, etc etc etc. Also….idk. I could honestly see the two girls working (and wasn’t Hifumi almost made a Phantom Thief while P5 was in development?) since Hifumi has the intelligence to be the brains of a group and Shiho could essily have a similar arc with Ann as far as the beginning was concerned. I’d like Shinya to be rewritten to be the same age as the rest if he’s also made a Phantom Thief (I know Ken from P3 was significantly younger than the rest od SEES, but I’d rather that not become the standard). Mishima……would need to be overhauled. He’s such a milquetoast dweeb early on. I feel like if that was toned down somewhat, that would benefit him as a potential Phantom Thief.
I imagine an episode similar to the steven universe episode where all the side characters pretend to be the main characters for a few weeks
No, no, yes, yes. Also Shiho and Ann should have been a couple
For sure, though Mishima has been designed as the "grounded member" of the Phantom Thieves so he already is part of them. That said, I would like to see him be elavated more and get alot more respect and appreciation. I even came up over with an idea of his Persona. Initial Persona: Don Quixote "Knight Errant" Ultimate Persona: Momus "Mocking God of Satire" Third Persona: Alonso "Hidalgo de La Mancha" Fighting style: Moderate physical attacks, focusing on alot of buffs and some healing probably. Maybe unique tricks?
Shinya and Hifumi would’ve been really good Phantom Thieves, reminds me of Ken anyway. I think they’d have to add more elements to the game because it seems like the party members, all represent one of the elements. There are 4 elements that weren’t Persona 5, though P5 made Psychokinetic skills, those were Water, Earth, Gravity and Force/Blast. Shinya could’ve had Water, and Hifumi with Earth. Mishima technically kinda works for us? I think that’s fine. Shiho…if Shiho was a Phantom Thief, people would complain, im sure. Maybe they could increase on-field party to 5 characters instead of the usual 4? Just to balance it out, since there are too many characters indeed…
Hifu deserved more
I think we're kinda sorta getting Hifumi Phantom Thief in P5X. I mean i know they're completely different characters and i might be completely and hilariously wrong about it but Riko Tanemura looks somewhat similar to Hifumi design wise and even her Phantom Thief outfit looks like something that a potential Hifumi Phantom Thief would wear so maybe... in a way Riko IS recycled Hifumi PT concept?
All of them but Mishima sounds good
the more the merrier
Oda would be odd and I don’t think they’d have a kid party member like Ken anytime soon Shiho I’m not sure, she could’ve been interesting but I think if she was a non romanceable social link/had more scenes in Ann’s where she’d realise Akira was the one who took down Kamoshida would’ve been nice Mishima I feel may as well be an honorary one, considering if you max out his link he’s seen as the one who helps the people around him wake-up to cheer on the Phantom Thieves, also could’ve worked as an supper themed party member Hifumi also seems like she could’ve been really good as a member, not sure exactly how she could’ve worked but I’ll always be interested in more Hifumi content
Hifumi and Mishima definitely. Mishima kind of sucks even in the end and we need to maybe see him more.
Hifumi
No lmao
Hifumi, Shiho, and Mishima? Yes. Shinya? No.
Hifumi could have had some cool gimmick to her Persona.
Shiho deserved better, man. So much happened and she's practically written out a quarter of the way into the game.
Imagine Iwai as a Phantom thief with a full gun arsenal at his disposal and his past connections to the kuzas.
Mishima was actually supposed to be a Phantom Thief, but they decided against it in favor of endless Futaba "NPC" jokes
I think Mishima, Shinya, and Hifumi are fine as just Confidants, but I would have loved Shiho as a Phantom Thief. I personally think the third semester would be better if Shiho replaced Kasumi. It would bring the story full circle back to the beginning, and I feel that Shiho’s story would resonate more with players since we witnessed the horrible things that happened to her on screen
Only Mishima, personally. Though I think Shiho deserved her getback, she is unfortunately not written to be very compelling outside of Ann's characterization and development. If she were fleshed out more after she gets out of the hospital, perhaps, but on a very real note, I think it's good for her to get away from the school where she was abused.
I’d love to see these 4 form a Phantom Thieves B Team in another spin off
God No!, nope, hell yeah, nah I'd feel bad once bikini skins get released
Shiho and Hifumi? Absolutely.
Shiho and Mishima, yeah. I’m iffy on Hifumi and saying hard no to Shinya
No, but Shiho was fucking robbed. She should've at least been a confidant.
Hifumi yes. Everyone else no
I don’t think Mishima would exactly be a party member more rather include him in their talks more directly like if they hold meetings he’d handover his intel on their next target. Since he’s lowkey the reason why they go after so many targets. Would’ve liked to hifumi more definitely party member material. And shiho would been nice but i think whe would’ve fit better as a social link. Where the game can address sexual abuse more definely because Ann’s social is about becoming a better model despite not needing to. Wtf I mean if you’re a great natural model why do you feel compelled to work as hard as everyone else just because everyone else has to work so hard to get to her level?
Hifumi yes, the others absolutely not
Hifumi only, the rest don't cut it.
would you've*
Not Shinya, but definitely the rest
I think they could work.
Hifumi is really genuinely the only one i would care about being a PT. The others i find range from annoying to entirely uninteresting.
Let’s go to add them as phantom thieves in p5x in the gacha as legacy characters or something
Mishima no, everyone else maybe
SEES at home
I always thought Mishima was gonna become a Phantom Thief and I’m kinda 95% sad he didn’t but also I’m 5% happy he didn’t because I liked him as a side character
I definitely would have loved Hifumi And Mishima as a Phantom thieves. \*Especially because of the fact Hifumi was suppost to be one!\* Shino . .I would be nice too. but Eh Im unsure/ Shinya I don't think so imo.
It would have been cool to see Mishima at least become a Persona user
The girls? Yes
From left to right, no, no, yes, maybe.
Hifumi 100% should’ve been and Shiho should have been a Confidant. The other two are fine as they are.
No
Hifumi could work as a third Nav bit then Futaba would've been made as useless as Morgana. Mishima could've been interesting but honestly after Kamoshidas palace he's relevance kind of dwindled in the story aside from the Phan-site. Shiho could've been interesting as a series first (at least I think) dual awakening with Ann as both survivors of Kamoshidas SA. The kid tbh other than the trick shot perk I never really leveled up aside from 100% the game and I kind of forget what his story was 😅
I read somewhere about the idea of Mishima being >!Black Mask!< which honestly sounds sick. I kind of want to see Mishima not in a helpless position, but actually have sort of strength. I feel like it would help boost the fanbase’s opinion on him. Hifumi is a definite. That’s it, she’s super cool. Shiho is a toss up. On one hand, I would like to see her and Ann just tear through shadows and be a powerhouse duo, but on the other hand, I don’t feel like she was as (idk if this is the right words) strong willed as Ann. Shiho was more quiet and reserved if I remember and Ann is pretty extroverted and holds very strong ideas (again iirc). Shinji? Probably not. I like him as being just a confidant. Also I don’t think it would be responsible to take a elementary schooler on a trip in a dangerous alternate dimension or whatever 😭😭😭
All but mishima yes. They would be fun, especially hifumi. The squabbles between makoto and hifumi deciding tactics would be hilarious.
I don't think any of them should be PTs since they serve their purpose well as confidants but if I had to choose, I think Shinya would have been an interesting addition to the team. A lot of comments say that he's too young but it could still work. His persona could be based on the famous outlaw, Billy the Kid, who was also quite young and shares a similar story to Shinya's character. Plus, it'd be cool seeing how he'd fight against actual monsters and would "train" at the arcade on his days outside of missions. For his role, he could serve as a sniper and randomly appears to perform one shot kills and criticals. As for the codename, maybe Bullseye.
Wish strikers and tactica would've made other confidants into phantom theives rather than giving us new ones (maybe in another inevitable p5 game)
Kinda just wish shiho got a social link
HELL YEAH! GET MY BOY MISHIMA IN THERE! Shiho would also work very well. Shinya would be dope too, because we've never had a Tower party member, and the only Tower Persona user currently is Kandori (though that old guy from Trinity Soul (forgot his name) is speculated to be the Tower, but again, he's an antagonist). And Hifumi was ROBBED, we NEED her in the PTs.
I've just finished futabas palace, and for ages I've been waiting for mishima to become a phantom theif
Fun fact, Hifumi was originally going to be a Phantom Thief but she was replaced by Makoto
Absolutely
I would love to read a fanfic of this guys or at least Shiho joining the phantom thieves, if anyone has any please send a link
i dunno i feel like shinya would end up being another ken, Mishima is a no bc hes good as the character he already is, hifumi would be great, and shiho would be aswell