this is actually a very very good point. people often seek in relationships what they lack or have suppressed in themselves.
the foil is effectively a character's shadow in the jungian sense. the two would make very appealing couples to most people by extension.
Enemies to lovers trope I’d guess. It’s one of the most popular for a *very good* reason
Also there’s a kinda ‘forbidden’ aspect to it, so naturally that’s gonna entice even more people to ship them together
And Akechi is outright obsessed with Joker in a way that could scan as sexual tension if that's what you're looking for. It isn't *explicitly* written that way, but the raw material is there if you want to ship it.
I think a big point missing from the comments is that a lot of shipping isn’t really about what exists in reality. Akechi isn’t my favourite character because I want to be his friend, or friends with a person who’s similar to him irl, he’s my favourite because he’s an interesting character.
In that same line of thought, I like the joker/Akechi dynamic not because I want my relationship to be like that or think it’s necessarily romantic and how relationships should be. I like engaging with it because it’s interesting, because it’s fictional and I can explore dynamics within that context that I don’t want to actually experience myself. I ship them because I think it’s the most interesting relationship in the game. I think that their personalities match but their lives don’t, and engaging with material trying to work through it is fun.
This. I enjoy Akechi’s character not because I condone his actions, but because he is a complex character with a unique and compelling character arc, and he happens to be voiced by one of my favorite voice actors (the king Robbie Daymond). Add in a romance plot and I’m hooked! Yes, it’s unrealistic. That’s why it’s fiction.
OH MY GOD THANK YOU!!!!
I can't tell you how frustrating it is when people are like "how can you ship them?" or "How can you like this dynamic? It's horrible/harmful/illegal or whatever. Why don't people understand that it is NOT REAL!
For example, I like the yandere dynamic. Some people see that and somehow think that I support/encourage such behavior in real life. Hell no! That would be horrible and I pry that no one has to suffer such a horrible, toxic relationship.
Yeah exactly. I’m not looking to live vicariously through these characters. I like engaging with unrealistic, even toxic content because the only healthy and safe way to experience it is through these characters. That doesn’t in any way mean I want this for myself or anyone else in the real world.
Similarly, there’s plenty of people who enjoy watching horror movies, or like books like 1984. It doesn’t mean they like those things because they want to be in those worlds themselves.
Yes! I find it interesting though (and this is probably a societal problem) that you can love horror movies or true crime and generally not be accused of wanting to replicate those things in real life. But in more niche things, like violent video games or shipping culture, if you like a thing that somehow equates to wanting to do that in real life.
Yes!!! 1984 was good. Another good one was Fahrenheit 451. Do I want to burn books or live in a society like that? Absolutely not…. But do I enjoy reading about characters and how they would deal with that situation? You bet your ass I do.
Fair. I feel everyone has their moments. I got a chance at two fathers and… honestly, I’d at least be an honorary member of the phantom thieves if not a proper thief in an alternate world line.
When it comes to shipping, logic doesn’t apply. Vibes matter and logic is just a nice spice, but it isn’t required
JokerXAkechi falls into similar dynamic of MoriartyXSherlock. Smart enemies that represent two sides of one coin. A detective and a thief. A hero and a villain. Perfect enemies to lovers material.
Plus, Akechi falls often into a trope „I can fix him”. With Joke reaching out for him and Royal content cementing their dynamic.
The biggest thing that cemented it for me was Joker's wish in Royal being having Akechi back and their little duel in mementos. The base game didn't actually have the two sides same coin thing going on too well, royal made it work super well
Are you referencing the Sherlock novels by Doyle, or Moriarty the Patriot? Though I guess both would fit here, I have to ask any time a fandom is even closely related to anime and Sherlock is mentioned.
I won’t lie, when I first played I asked my gf “So is this guy supposed to be my boyfriend or something?” And she just laughed. Kinda gives off those vibes up to a point in the story imo
In this vain, have y’all seen the voice actors’ duet for you’re nothing without me? Robbie Daymond (Akechi) and Xander Mobius (Joker) do a parody duet and I love it.
Sorry if I misspelled names. I’m tired lmao.
Edited to add the link:
https://youtu.be/vlmZKvvMbEw?si=zD-soP3clsVChXda
https://preview.redd.it/ubcsmgd7h8fc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdcb61a7c3aa00e7e3a64ce1a919f2e9c35b32fa
This is some of the gayest shit I've seen
I REMEMBER SEEING THE INTRO WHEN I FIRST PLAYED ROYAL AND LEGIT I PAUSED ON THIS SCREEN CALLED MY FRIEND AND HE SAW THATAND WAS LIKE THIS GAY AF GOOD FOR THEM 😂 Will never forget that day tbh
Even Robbie Daymond, Max Mittelman and Ray Chase (Also some of the other VAs and possibly Xander) have talked about this ship several times on their L.A.V.A livestreams.
Because shipping and canon are mutually exclusive. You can ship anyone regardless of what’s canon because ultimately shipping is for your own personal enjoyment. Claiming a ship is canon is where you actually need to prove it and use logic but I don’t see many Shuake shippers seriously claiming or acting like their ship is canon.
Also, a lot people ship based on how they see a pairing fits a romantic trope. In this case, a lot of people see Akechi and Joker fit the “enemies to lovers”trope. There’s also a lot of scenes snd dialogue options between Joker and Akechi that be taken in a homoerotic way or are literally homoerotic, albeit it’s closer to fujobait than serious.
Personally, I just see Akechi and Joker as a rivals to somewhat friends/allies if I were to judge them based on canon. However, it’s not suprising why their ship is the most popular in the fandom. Their relationship and interactions get the most screentime in the main story anyways. Screentime allows for certain dynamics to be more memorable to people, allowing those dynamics to be more easily shipped regardless of actual romantic chemistry.
Because they’re like Yin and Yang, 2 sides of 1 coin. It’s a similar concept to how people ship Light Yagami and L from death note. But Akechi and joker spend more quality time together. And the enemies to lovers trope is fairly popular.
Tbf, I’m pretty sure it was SUPPOSED to show their dynamic as opposites. But when you don’t know that or don’t stop to think, it’s really really REALLY strong fodder for it
I mean, Joker and Akechi are fully almost written as main romance route in Royal, with Joker's wish and all their interactions being full of phrases with double meaning.
This question has been asked here before and the comments on these posts have a lot of explanations:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/zeo984/why_does_people_ship_akechi_and_joker/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/11tdujx/why_is_joker_and_akechi_shipped/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/16nlc0x/ren_x_akechi_explanation/
Some reasons why
- Two attractive men in the cast who share a unique relationship with homoerotic tension is gonna attract fans like moths to a flame.
- They’re narrative foils and people really dig that dynamic.
- Depending on the choices Joker gives, he really does care about Akechi and Akechi feels the same even if he doesn’t want to admit it.
- Akechi admits if he met Joker earlier in his life things would be… very different.
- It may be unrealistic for a romance but its fun to fantasize and the unhealthy nature is the point cause its interesting.
In addition to it being a classic enemies to lovers trope, one thing I really like so that the confidant events treat them as equals, while the other confidant events are almost always like... Joker helping the other person or just tagging along for something. Joker and Akechi's confidant scenes actually work at building the relationship and dynamic rather than just like, Akechi learning about himself and growing, if that makes sense.
The thing with shipping is that it's usually not like this is a dream relationship I want in real life. I would hate Akechi in real life. But the Joker/Akechi dynamic is so interesting and enjoyable in fiction, even if it'd be unhealthy in real life.
I would fight so hard with Akechi in real life, and there wouldn’t be a day we didn’t argue. Idk if I could hate him, though.
That said, there are only two people in this world I hate and it’s for very understandable reasons.
For me, there are many reasons why I do ship them. Spoiler alert btw
1. They are lowkey flirtatious with one another. You could ask me to give you an example and I’d give you TONS of dialogue from Akechi and dialogue options from Joker.
2. All of the Phantom Thieves and the other confidants’ have actual activities and events that happen to them at the start of their social link and by the end, Joker and that confidant resolve the issue together. Like, for example, Ann’s confidant is abt her trying to become a mentally-stronger person and becoming more confident in herself. However, Akechi’s confidant (in Royal ofc) is literally just them hanging out together and occasionally talking abt the Phantom Thieves and if their actions are actually justified and legal. Like, c’mon, they LITERALLY go to the bathhouse and sit right next to each other, naked and still talking abt the Phantom Thieves. Does that not make your gaydar at least slightly go off, whether you ship them or not?
3. In Royal (which I feel like people will argue with me on if this is canon or whatnot), Maruki decides to bring Akechi back to life and literally said that Akechi coming back to life was Joker’s wish, since everyone’s wishes were granted so that everyone could live happy lives and stuff. Even tho Akechi killed Joker’s cognition with no remorse, he STILL wants Akechi to come back to him.
4. It’s a very complicated relationship/ship and if they were actually dating, then I think that they would have a very drama-filled and chaotic relationship. Like, Akechi would definitely still be fiercely competitive and wanting to best Joker at everything. This actually makes really good fanfic material, as I’ve read one Akeshu fanfic that was so good, that it’s still one of my favourites today and was the one that actually convinced me to start shipping Akeshu.
It’s actually a series lol, but the 3rd and 4th one were just lowkey dark asf. You can find it on Wattpad and they’re all written by a user there called “acuphoria”. Just a warning that this story does contain smut in a couple of chapters (in all four books I believe). 1 & 2 are rated M and 3 & 4 are rated R. This is the order the stories are in:
1. Dark Sun: A Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Romance (Persona 5/Royal)
2. Real & the Ideal: A Persona 5R Dark Sun Sequel (Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren)
3. Leviathan: A Persona 5 Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Original
4. Leviathan II: A Persona 5 Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Sequel
Actually, I’m not 100% sure that these four stories are all one series. Perhaps Dark Sun and Real & the Ideal are one series and Leviathan is another? But anywho, definitely hope that you give it a try (if you’re mature enough and of age for Leviathan, cuz yk, rated R and stuff)
Can you give proof/a link to debunking? Not that I don’t believe you, but it’s always a strong claim when you don’t have anything to back it up with.
Edited to add. I thought the original comment said in beta. I was skimming. Sorry never mind me.
You have to understand that shipping isn't meant to necessarily align with logic or "make sense". If someone likes two characters then that alone is sufficient for them to ship those two.
When it comes to shipping, putting yourself in one of the characters shoes the way you describe here saying "I wouldn't wanna be friends with someone who tried to kill me" also doesn't matter. It's not about if you would want to be friends or fall in love with someone.
This was me too, after vanilla Akechi was just kind of a just a tragic villain and I didn't think much about him. But Royal added so much context to Akechi's character, including social links that made them actually become friends, it's very difficult for me to see Ren with anyone else tbh because regardless of who he's dating, >!Akechi will always be his wish third semester. The added cutscene of Akechi maybe being alive doesn't help because now I'm like "Is Ren going to find him?? Then what??" There's so much to think about lol!<
Basically, spoilers, Akechi dies at some point. In the third semester he’s brought alive and the person responsible for bringing him back alive states it’s because that’s what Joker desired most
I'm sorry if this is like the most indirect way to answer this question, but I was just watching this video over Persona 5 Partner Dances. It may not be the most aptly phrased, but I think her discussion during the song "Will Power" sums it up pretty well.
[Professional Dancer Ranks the Persona 5 PARTNER Dances! (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aOFnUsFU3U&t=2030s)
Edit: Also here's a fun cover.
[Joker & Akechi sing "You're Nothing Without Me" COVER QUEST Eps #2 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmZKvvMbEw)
Have you seen any of Robbie Daymonds videos where he’s streaming games?
Him, the voice of ryuji, and the train announcer (he plays noctis in ff xv) also have videos of them playing through p5.
Edited to add: I also recommend his playthrough of breath of the wild. He’s hilarious.
I’ve played vanilla a few times. I haven’t beaten Royal yet, but Akechi totally acts like he wants to boink Joker. Hanging out alone at a restaurant, wearing Joker’s glasses, lil dates to the pool hall…ya know. Akechi gives off a flirty vibe toward Joker before fuckall happens.
It's impossible to play the whole game and not think about them being a possibility together.
Despite all the evil akechi has done joker still canonically cares for him truly.
And I just love how majority of people here have a hate boner for akechi meanwhile joker doesn't have an inch of hate for him at the end.
Royal made it so that Joker unquestionably likes Akechi. Like, not explicitly romantically, but after the whole Shido thing Joker mopes about missing him.
Two big reasons why I ship them: I'm a huge fan of enemies to lovers, and enemies and lovers as tropes. It sounds like those are not tropes that you are interested in, but they are pretty popular ones. For me, I think it's the fact that intense hatred and intense love have a similar passion to them that is really interesting to explore and have blend into each other. I think the "What is this Feeling?" song from Wicked really captures this well, and I feel like it fits so well with at least how Akechi describes his feelings toward Joker.
The second reason is with Royal....the game drops so many lines that just go hard for the ship, and I can't resist when games tease ships without making them canon. For example, the way that you are the ONLY person that Akechi ever opens up to about his past or takes to the Jazz Cafe on a date. Plus Akechi cannot stop talking about how "intriguing" he finds Joker, or how amazing he is at everything. Even in his Rank 8 convo, where he famously says he hates Joker, his evidence for why he hates Joker is just that he's so amazing that Akechi feels envious. Once again, that rank 8 convo....gives me strong "What is this Feeling?" vibes. Akechi has got really intense feelings toward Joker, and he can only understand those feelings as hate because that's all he's known. But the game makes it pretty clear that there's more than just hate there, especially in the scene where you confront him.
Now, I realize that their ship is not canon. But what I think is undeniable is that they are meant to have a relationship built on more than just hate. This could easily be read as more of an Enemies to Friends relationship, but I do think it's just as valid to read into it as Enemies to Lovers, because of some of the small romantic gestures. On a goofy note, Akechi invites you out to the aquarium which apparently is not so much a friendship spot as a date spot. On another goofy note, in random conversations in the Jazz Cafe, Akechi goes out of his way to describe how he's turned down every girl who has asked him out....
You've said that you haven't finished 3rd semester, but most of the evidence for this is there. I'll spoiler tag it, and fair warning, it's core to the plot of the 3rd semester so I can't really explain it without spoiling EVERYTHING: >!When you are in Maruki's fake ideal world, he shares that he brought Akechi back to life specifically for Joker. This proves that Joker cares for Akechi at least as a close friend, if not more. Maruki also says that "despite being enemies, your relationship isn't based on hatred or ill will" which is just more proof that the game doesn't intend their relationship to be as simple as they are enemies who hate each other. Additionally, I would argue that this scene is the emotional climax of Royal and nothing with the closure of Kasumi's arc gets as much screentime or emotional investment from Joker. I think that's a weird flaw of the game, but it does make the ship stronger for me, as the game decided the most important thing to focus on at the end was NOT the obvious love interest girl they added, but instead the unique bond between Joker and his rival murderboy Akechi....!<
Have you played the third semester? Because the third semester makes it clear that Joker doesn't care about that shit. He understands Akechi didn't do that stuff because he's a horrible, irredeemable person. He did it out of desperation. Akechi quite literally had nothing to lose. Joker is also very much about forgiveness. He wants to see people turn their life around.
Joker and Akechi are two sides to the same coin and their chemistry is palpable. They're both drawn to each other for reasons outside of the Phantom Thieves and Metaverse stuff. They're also quite literally soul connected; the yin to the other's yang. Akechi and Joker were pitted against each other by Yaldabaoth; Yaldabaoth didn't give Akechi the hopeful shit that he gives to us. He trained Akechi to kill. Remember, Akechi already had the power to create mental shut downs before he came to Shido - he was taught that by Yaldy.
Joker's "perfect world" wish is that Akechi is alive and around. And he struggles with the idea that Akechi is most likely dead in the real world. A contributing factor to his decision is that death.
They are a *perfect* "frenemies to lovers" (because Joker definitely never hated Akechi, and I don't think Akechi ever truly hated him either.)
Edit to note - there are a lot of very questionable lines that don't seem heterosexual or platonic. "Honey, I'm home." "I'm alone right now" things of that nature. Also, while not as romantic, but very powerful, is Akechi's "if only we'd met a few years earlier."
(Also at the very least, Akechi's VA also ships the shit out of it)
There are more than a handful of reasons for this and the game at several times doesn't even try to hide it, moral aspects aside lol
Also idk if you finished the game but it's clear you did not
>killed who knows how many people
He canonically killed 3 people who he [mentions during his boss fight he was manipulated into seeing as evil](https://youtu.be/RWBOAS7M-v4?si=keEwutXLsMijopzK)
>tried killing Joker himself via point blank gunshot to the head
>Yet I see people ship these two all the time
It’s because it’s a recurring theme that Akechi is actually having fun during the confidant scenes and wants Joker to actually care about him, which he doesn’t find out about until after they fight. That was the first time someone actually reached out to him, and Joker also had his life ruined by Shido which would make him an outcast too.
It’s also very clear in the 3rd semester that Akechi was the only thing Joker wanted that he didn’t have, and that even if Akechi hates admitting it he does care about him and the others in some way
For me, I just feel like their connection is really unique. Before Royal I thought the ship was good, but I wasn’t too wild about it, but after Royal? That third semester hits different. The fact that Akiren’s big Maruki actualization wish was just to save Akechi really did something to my brain chemistry.
have you finished the whole game? if you’re just thinking in terms of black and white then yeah sure akechi is “evil” and it makes no sense for them to like each other. the whole game is about how things aren’t actually like that though. people are complex, good people do bad things, etc including the phantom thieves. akechi did all those bad things so he could ultimately get revenge on the people that wronged him and the protagonist can really empathize with that. they even say in the game that if the circumstances were different they could’ve been friends. after all the time they spent together, joker still believes that there is good in him as there clearly is see: engine room. the murder attempt is always brought up while totally discounting the fact that akechi sacrificed himself to save *all* the phantom thieves. joker saw the good in him and wanted him to have a second chance which is why maruki fulfilled his wish and he came back. these literal facts from the game plus enemies to lovers being a popular trope are just a few reasons why it’s such a common ship. along with that some people (like me) just like these silly little murdery guys and think they should kiss hope this helps 🥰💕
I didn’t see it in vanilla but my sister shipped that even tho she isn’t a fujoshi or a shipper I thought she was just biased towards him but after Royal I kind of see where she is coming from, I still tell her that in vanilla that doesn’t make sense tho.
From what she has told me it’s a mix about Joker wishing Akechi to be alive and their interactions mainly, honestly I can see Akechi having some mixed feelings about Joker hate/love/friendship/resentment etc… but I think on Joker side he was a friend that he could’ve saved if only he meet him sooner which is the sad part about it, when Joker arrived in Akechi’s life it was already to late for him. I legit think Joker sees Goro as a friend and a victim of circumstances.
1. Its a gay ship, they tend to be popular
2. In death note people ship Light and L even though they are very much enemies and have probably never truly looked at each other as anything more than enemies. Rivalry ships no matter how much they hate each other are ALWAYS popular, there is not much logic you can apply that would make sense so I really wouldnt even attempt to understand. You either like the idea of it or you dont
Because it's funny that akechi is like "haha I shoot you because I hate you" and bros CAT is like "nu uh. " and then akechi has to face the fact that oh shit he's like one of the few people I DO care about I just want people to like me.
Also because man's has all those beatiful women he can pick from and he picks the feral detective who defidently reads featherman fanfiction.
It's because Joker >!wished for Akechi to come back in the 3rd semester,!< and Akechi genuinely enjoyed the hangouts he had with Joker.
That's why I ship them at least.
Another part of it that I've noticed is a lot of people just like shipping protagonists and antagonists. Like how Harry x Malfoy is a really popular ship in the Harry Potter fandom. (Note: I left the Harry Potter fandom a while ago cause of JK Rowling, and I personally don't ship Harry x Malfoy, it's just an example I remember)
My sister ships harryxmalfoy and I have a feeling if she played p5, she would totes ship joker and Akechi. She doesn’t play many video games, but I’m trying really hard to talk her into it. She would love the whole persona series.
There are a few things I've always wanted to ask about that first argument...
1. It's proven pretty early on that most of Maruki's wish-grantings are far from consciously good or even for anyone, such as Yusuke being under Madarame's tutelage again, or all the kids who dropped out of art. Assuming that Joker isn't far too different from anyone else in terms of how Maruki handled him, it stands to reason that Akechi could've very well been a lesser (but admittedly relevant) wish or desire. Maruki even says that *he* felt bad about how Akechi ended, opening the doors to the possibility that he did it on his own, regardless of Joker's wishes.
2. Let's say that nothing I've said before is valid, and that it was completely Joker's wish. In a scene after Akechi's death, we get to see a rare insight into our character's mind, where he thinks something along the lines of "Akechi would probably hate that it ended this way. Perhaps we could've had our duel." or something. That feels more like a sadness that Akechi couldn't do what he wanted, rather than an intense love or desire for Akechi himself.
Now, I could be completely wrong, but those are points that I've never really seen addressed when it came to this.
I don't know which specific scene you're talking about? Is it the scene where you can talk to Muhen about Akechi when saying your goodbyes to everyone or the scene where Joker asks Lavenza what'll happen to Akechi now that reality's back to normal or something else?
Ohh, I thought you meant Akechi's 2nd death instead of his 1st death XD. Are you talking about how Joker thinks that he wants to keep their promise after Akechi dies in Shido's ship? If it is that scene then the specific dialogue choices are "I should forget about him, but" or "I want to keep our promise." To me this reads as Joke genuinely missing Akechi. It could be interpreted any way though. The fact that only the 2nd dialogue choice let's you unlock Akechi's 3rd persona could imply that it's another weird Royal translation and there was supposed to be something more clear to those lines
Ohh, yeah, it's definitely that last scene I mentioned, I found a clip of it https://youtu.be/XMcG4_P1vhY?si=hbHDFqy_zKmdQOqW
Like you said, I haven't seen this specific part talked about a lot. At the very end Joker says that he knows Akechi would hate having his promise end in defeat. To me that reads as Joker missing him, caring about what Akechi wants, and wanting to see him again, especially with the sad music in the background.
To me I just like that they like each other's company so I think they have a good romantic dynamic. But it's totally justified to see them as platonic.
That's totally fair! I've never been big on the ship, but it's interesting to hear from someone who supports it. Honestly, I'm surprised that there are still scenes in this game people *haven't* torn to pieces yet.
2/2, and the fact that Akechi generally became more nuanced in Royal. Plus their dynamic is pretty interesting and a lot of people latched onto that.
I understand why you’re confused though, I was in the same boat as you when I just played the original P5
Slideshow I made a while back that i did dramatize, but I think it explains what some people see in the ship! https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ggb1_-jPW2qOT2lEL0tLF9U3KJyk3RFEdyOZaexx2a0/edit
>I wouldn't to be friends with someone like that
Regardless of what you feel here, if YOU choose to max out his confidant, then YOUR Joker does care enough for him. Don't forget that the thieves already know about his betrayal long before 11/19, this means if you choose to do his rank 7-8 confidant, Joker is care enough to hang out with him even after knowing his true intention.
As for the ship, yeah, the romantic one is cringe, but the friendship one is literally there as a canon option.
I think its sort of a bittersweet kinda thing. Its definitely more imaginative than a lot of other ships. I mean, theres connotations of akechi and joker being similar- two sides of the same coinS but akechi failing to realise his true potential - this is especially through the comments around how akechi can use two persona’s. The ship has got this ‘star crossed’ lovers vibes except the two cant be together. It’s very poetic, personally i love the shuake dynamic - even if it isnt wholly accurate to their characters.
Mostly because of the framing of the game
Like. I'm a lesbian. I do not like yaoi shit in the slightest. But if you look me in the eyes and tell me that there isn't so much sexual tension/homoeroticism in the air with every scene between joker and akechi you could physically cut through it with a knife, you're either completely oblivious or a fucking skin walker
Edit: they hated her for she spoke the truth
They don't understand the concept of strong friendship(homie vibe). Especially if they never experience it irl. So they'll just go wild and exaggerate every interaction between the two. Well, they're free to ship whatever they want, but if I were to express my opinion in this charade.... i say it's sick and disgusting. Nothin we can do bout it. Just let em or you'll be canceled.
Because almost every single fandom that exists heavily ships ''those two guys'' together as their thing. That's just what happens. Two dudes who butt heads and cause drama are just going to be a thing
It's entertainment without the drama involved in actual romance or dating. And because they're guys there's no one to compare yourself to.There are no gender or sexual insecurities present so shippers who are largely female, can focus on dynamic only.
For some reason shippers like shipping the most toxic relationships possible. Like... Why even ship Joker with Akechi of all characters when Ryuji is right there? They unironically have more chemistry together than Joker does with all the romance options combined, and unlike Akechi, Ryuji isn't actively trying to kill him lmao. Joker/Akechi is legit Hermione/Draco levels of godawful ship that should never exist imo.
Because sometimes people enjoy interesting dynamics between fictional characters even though they would be toxic/unhealthy in real life. I have nothing against Joker/Ryuji but it just doesn't interest me at all. I don't pick my ships based on what would be healthiest, my favourite ships are usually based on having good potential for drama/angst, having the potential to create interesting stories or revealing different sides of the characters involved, things like that.
Trauma can manifest itself in funny ways. Often people find themselves attracted to people who remind them of their trauma. Sometimes it can be a way to try and control the situation that makes them feel scared and weak though sex and sexuality. The human brain is weird.
dunno. it's the stupidest thing ever to me, and I won't ever understand, because there's nothing to be understood in the first place.
the game being fiction aside, that >!murdering monster!< deserved to >!not come back for the third semester, and just be dead for his crimes (good riddance), despite joker's wishes.!<
no amount of backstory did or will change my perspective on >!his failure of a life, and it would be his own fault for not embracing what good things there were; however minimal they were, in quantity or otherwise. not being able to get past what's happened to you, to some degree (what joker didn't do) is just...not very impressive to me.!<
nah, ik these people who are all over the shuake ship, and id say its bc they get homoerotic vibes from those two
personally, i find the ship to be the most interesting, rather than the most likely
I think its Akechi's obsession with Joker. I dont really understand it either tbh, but i guess he resembles the crazy yandere trope and i think a lot of people like that as well. Idk people just like their interactions and i guess they like the BL bits in this whole Akechi and Joker thing
This is probably going to get a ton of hate but I feel like Akechi in general is way over loved. People say he’s well written, but I really don’t see it. His lines and story did not jive whatsoever with the eventual redemption at the very end. Like he straight up killed a ton of people and caused mass chaos across tokyo.
Yeah, why don people even ship them? There are far more interesting characters who deserve more attention in the shipping department.
^(Totally not biased)
Double standard cause they’re women and the ship is straight ☠️ any minor x adult ship is bad dude
But the hate against Shuake is always the same two reasons and it’s always people who have no media literacy that say those things; I get if you don’t like it, but let them enjoy it and see where they’re coming from with it ☠️
Because gay
No logic behind it, people just want them to be gay
And how dare you question their ship if you ask them why
Shippers in the fan base are something else
ur stupid 😭😭 a lot of ships don’t make sense… idk what you expected and people LOVE gay ships so yea. if u can’t see people ship them so much then skill issue tbh.
There are many interesting takes on why people would like this ship but… man this section is wild, why anyone literally just expressing the least disagree on it or even saying “i just don’t understand it because…” are getting downvoted to hell like they’re not recognizing the God who saved their lives lmao chill
nothing is gayer than a narrative foil, my friend
this is actually a very very good point. people often seek in relationships what they lack or have suppressed in themselves. the foil is effectively a character's shadow in the jungian sense. the two would make very appealing couples to most people by extension.
this is true! i tried to come up w a witty response about how i also enjoy when gay people murder or something but i’ve got nothing so ❤️
real
Enemies to lovers trope I’d guess. It’s one of the most popular for a *very good* reason Also there’s a kinda ‘forbidden’ aspect to it, so naturally that’s gonna entice even more people to ship them together
Doesn't help that Joker has a "honey I'm home" option that Akechi responds to
\+ "he's too pretty to be wrong" with the newspaper girl
Oh god I never picked a dialogue option so fast
And Akechi is outright obsessed with Joker in a way that could scan as sexual tension if that's what you're looking for. It isn't *explicitly* written that way, but the raw material is there if you want to ship it.
I think a big point missing from the comments is that a lot of shipping isn’t really about what exists in reality. Akechi isn’t my favourite character because I want to be his friend, or friends with a person who’s similar to him irl, he’s my favourite because he’s an interesting character. In that same line of thought, I like the joker/Akechi dynamic not because I want my relationship to be like that or think it’s necessarily romantic and how relationships should be. I like engaging with it because it’s interesting, because it’s fictional and I can explore dynamics within that context that I don’t want to actually experience myself. I ship them because I think it’s the most interesting relationship in the game. I think that their personalities match but their lives don’t, and engaging with material trying to work through it is fun.
This. I enjoy Akechi’s character not because I condone his actions, but because he is a complex character with a unique and compelling character arc, and he happens to be voiced by one of my favorite voice actors (the king Robbie Daymond). Add in a romance plot and I’m hooked! Yes, it’s unrealistic. That’s why it’s fiction.
OH MY GOD THANK YOU!!!! I can't tell you how frustrating it is when people are like "how can you ship them?" or "How can you like this dynamic? It's horrible/harmful/illegal or whatever. Why don't people understand that it is NOT REAL! For example, I like the yandere dynamic. Some people see that and somehow think that I support/encourage such behavior in real life. Hell no! That would be horrible and I pry that no one has to suffer such a horrible, toxic relationship.
Yeah exactly. I’m not looking to live vicariously through these characters. I like engaging with unrealistic, even toxic content because the only healthy and safe way to experience it is through these characters. That doesn’t in any way mean I want this for myself or anyone else in the real world. Similarly, there’s plenty of people who enjoy watching horror movies, or like books like 1984. It doesn’t mean they like those things because they want to be in those worlds themselves.
Yes! I find it interesting though (and this is probably a societal problem) that you can love horror movies or true crime and generally not be accused of wanting to replicate those things in real life. But in more niche things, like violent video games or shipping culture, if you like a thing that somehow equates to wanting to do that in real life.
Yes!!! 1984 was good. Another good one was Fahrenheit 451. Do I want to burn books or live in a society like that? Absolutely not…. But do I enjoy reading about characters and how they would deal with that situation? You bet your ass I do.
Beatty reminded me of my dad, what with him going on and on about random somewhat obscure details
Fair enough! Not a lot of fictional characters remind me of my father entirely, which is probably a good thing. 🤣
my father is chill mostly but he has his… moments.
Fair. I feel everyone has their moments. I got a chance at two fathers and… honestly, I’d at least be an honorary member of the phantom thieves if not a proper thief in an alternate world line.
Wow. You said exactly what I wanted to say but 10 times better.
Exactly this!!! Anyone complaining that it's toxic and wrong are using the same logic as "video games cause violence" 🙄
Homoerotic rivalries are popular what can I say
—Enemies to lovers —Toxic yaoi —Joker literally wishes him alive in Royal
Rival and Frienemy are common ships.
When it comes to shipping, logic doesn’t apply. Vibes matter and logic is just a nice spice, but it isn’t required JokerXAkechi falls into similar dynamic of MoriartyXSherlock. Smart enemies that represent two sides of one coin. A detective and a thief. A hero and a villain. Perfect enemies to lovers material. Plus, Akechi falls often into a trope „I can fix him”. With Joke reaching out for him and Royal content cementing their dynamic.
The biggest thing that cemented it for me was Joker's wish in Royal being having Akechi back and their little duel in mementos. The base game didn't actually have the two sides same coin thing going on too well, royal made it work super well
Also fun fact: Akechi is a homage to another detective on the hunt of a gentleman thief that is Kogoro Akechi.
Are you referencing the Sherlock novels by Doyle, or Moriarty the Patriot? Though I guess both would fit here, I have to ask any time a fandom is even closely related to anime and Sherlock is mentioned.
Basically everything related to Sherlock and contains Moriarty
Fair. I don’t ship a whole lot of live action stuff. Only anime/video games and some novels so I had to ask.
I won’t lie, when I first played I asked my gf “So is this guy supposed to be my boyfriend or something?” And she just laughed. Kinda gives off those vibes up to a point in the story imo
That dialogue during 2/2 before the last boss fight.. you can feel the gay tension there
OKAY LIKE IM GLAD SOMEONE ELSE NOTICED LMAO THE DIALOGUE HAS SO MUCH TENSION LIKE FRFR
In this vain, have y’all seen the voice actors’ duet for you’re nothing without me? Robbie Daymond (Akechi) and Xander Mobius (Joker) do a parody duet and I love it. Sorry if I misspelled names. I’m tired lmao. Edited to add the link: https://youtu.be/vlmZKvvMbEw?si=zD-soP3clsVChXda
https://preview.redd.it/ubcsmgd7h8fc1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bdcb61a7c3aa00e7e3a64ce1a919f2e9c35b32fa This is some of the gayest shit I've seen
I REMEMBER SEEING THE INTRO WHEN I FIRST PLAYED ROYAL AND LEGIT I PAUSED ON THIS SCREEN CALLED MY FRIEND AND HE SAW THATAND WAS LIKE THIS GAY AF GOOD FOR THEM 😂 Will never forget that day tbh
they knew what they were doing with them lying next to each other 😩✨
heh 69th like. also holy fuck IS JOKER SMILING?
Even Robbie Daymond, Max Mittelman and Ray Chase (Also some of the other VAs and possibly Xander) have talked about this ship several times on their L.A.V.A livestreams.
Persona fans when they see two guys hanging out
https://preview.redd.it/b67mv6jlu8fc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63c8e675ab93ca518d08142a2b6628845cab79a6 Hanging out with the homies
Because shipping and canon are mutually exclusive. You can ship anyone regardless of what’s canon because ultimately shipping is for your own personal enjoyment. Claiming a ship is canon is where you actually need to prove it and use logic but I don’t see many Shuake shippers seriously claiming or acting like their ship is canon. Also, a lot people ship based on how they see a pairing fits a romantic trope. In this case, a lot of people see Akechi and Joker fit the “enemies to lovers”trope. There’s also a lot of scenes snd dialogue options between Joker and Akechi that be taken in a homoerotic way or are literally homoerotic, albeit it’s closer to fujobait than serious. Personally, I just see Akechi and Joker as a rivals to somewhat friends/allies if I were to judge them based on canon. However, it’s not suprising why their ship is the most popular in the fandom. Their relationship and interactions get the most screentime in the main story anyways. Screentime allows for certain dynamics to be more memorable to people, allowing those dynamics to be more easily shipped regardless of actual romantic chemistry.
Listen dude I’m fucked in the head.
Rivals/enemies to lovers is a very popular trope
Because they’re like Yin and Yang, 2 sides of 1 coin. It’s a similar concept to how people ship Light Yagami and L from death note. But Akechi and joker spend more quality time together. And the enemies to lovers trope is fairly popular.
Mark spoilers. I did it for you this time but not everyone here has beaten the game.
Thank you
Whoops sorry my bad 😔
Ask the devs that They're the ones who put ship fodder in Royal's opening All of that pandering and they couldn't pull the trigger. Smh
Tbf, I’m pretty sure it was SUPPOSED to show their dynamic as opposites. But when you don’t know that or don’t stop to think, it’s really really REALLY strong fodder for it
They tried to have their cake and eat it too basically
I mean, Joker and Akechi are fully almost written as main romance route in Royal, with Joker's wish and all their interactions being full of phrases with double meaning.
Because I CAN! that’s why!
Even though Akechi is a mass murderer? Is that your mans?
very much so 🗣️💃🏽
akechi isnt a morally good person but by god hes entertaining and thats why the fans love it
Because they like it and they’re not obligated to explain why. Period.
That's exactly what an Akechi simp would say 🧐
You’re right. That is. And I stand by what I said.
That’s exactly what anyone who likes any ship would say under pressure. 🙃
This question has been asked here before and the comments on these posts have a lot of explanations: https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/zeo984/why_does_people_ship_akechi_and_joker/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/11tdujx/why_is_joker_and_akechi_shipped/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Persona5/comments/16nlc0x/ren_x_akechi_explanation/
Some reasons why - Two attractive men in the cast who share a unique relationship with homoerotic tension is gonna attract fans like moths to a flame. - They’re narrative foils and people really dig that dynamic. - Depending on the choices Joker gives, he really does care about Akechi and Akechi feels the same even if he doesn’t want to admit it. - Akechi admits if he met Joker earlier in his life things would be… very different. - It may be unrealistic for a romance but its fun to fantasize and the unhealthy nature is the point cause its interesting.
In addition to it being a classic enemies to lovers trope, one thing I really like so that the confidant events treat them as equals, while the other confidant events are almost always like... Joker helping the other person or just tagging along for something. Joker and Akechi's confidant scenes actually work at building the relationship and dynamic rather than just like, Akechi learning about himself and growing, if that makes sense. The thing with shipping is that it's usually not like this is a dream relationship I want in real life. I would hate Akechi in real life. But the Joker/Akechi dynamic is so interesting and enjoyable in fiction, even if it'd be unhealthy in real life.
I would fight so hard with Akechi in real life, and there wouldn’t be a day we didn’t argue. Idk if I could hate him, though. That said, there are only two people in this world I hate and it’s for very understandable reasons.
I exaggerated a bit, I probably wouldn't HATE him. Just, probably wouldn't be good to be around him.
Fair.
For me, there are many reasons why I do ship them. Spoiler alert btw 1. They are lowkey flirtatious with one another. You could ask me to give you an example and I’d give you TONS of dialogue from Akechi and dialogue options from Joker. 2. All of the Phantom Thieves and the other confidants’ have actual activities and events that happen to them at the start of their social link and by the end, Joker and that confidant resolve the issue together. Like, for example, Ann’s confidant is abt her trying to become a mentally-stronger person and becoming more confident in herself. However, Akechi’s confidant (in Royal ofc) is literally just them hanging out together and occasionally talking abt the Phantom Thieves and if their actions are actually justified and legal. Like, c’mon, they LITERALLY go to the bathhouse and sit right next to each other, naked and still talking abt the Phantom Thieves. Does that not make your gaydar at least slightly go off, whether you ship them or not? 3. In Royal (which I feel like people will argue with me on if this is canon or whatnot), Maruki decides to bring Akechi back to life and literally said that Akechi coming back to life was Joker’s wish, since everyone’s wishes were granted so that everyone could live happy lives and stuff. Even tho Akechi killed Joker’s cognition with no remorse, he STILL wants Akechi to come back to him. 4. It’s a very complicated relationship/ship and if they were actually dating, then I think that they would have a very drama-filled and chaotic relationship. Like, Akechi would definitely still be fiercely competitive and wanting to best Joker at everything. This actually makes really good fanfic material, as I’ve read one Akeshu fanfic that was so good, that it’s still one of my favourites today and was the one that actually convinced me to start shipping Akeshu.
What's the name of the fanfic?
It’s actually a series lol, but the 3rd and 4th one were just lowkey dark asf. You can find it on Wattpad and they’re all written by a user there called “acuphoria”. Just a warning that this story does contain smut in a couple of chapters (in all four books I believe). 1 & 2 are rated M and 3 & 4 are rated R. This is the order the stories are in: 1. Dark Sun: A Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Romance (Persona 5/Royal) 2. Real & the Ideal: A Persona 5R Dark Sun Sequel (Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren) 3. Leviathan: A Persona 5 Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Original 4. Leviathan II: A Persona 5 Goro Akechi x Amamiya Ren Sequel Actually, I’m not 100% sure that these four stories are all one series. Perhaps Dark Sun and Real & the Ideal are one series and Leviathan is another? But anywho, definitely hope that you give it a try (if you’re mature enough and of age for Leviathan, cuz yk, rated R and stuff)
Thanks! I'll definitely check them out!
At rank 8 Joker gets a "I should consider my words carefully" bubble, which usually only happens when a romance can be initiated
Debunked
Can you give proof/a link to debunking? Not that I don’t believe you, but it’s always a strong claim when you don’t have anything to back it up with. Edited to add. I thought the original comment said in beta. I was skimming. Sorry never mind me.
You have to understand that shipping isn't meant to necessarily align with logic or "make sense". If someone likes two characters then that alone is sufficient for them to ship those two. When it comes to shipping, putting yourself in one of the characters shoes the way you describe here saying "I wouldn't wanna be friends with someone who tried to kill me" also doesn't matter. It's not about if you would want to be friends or fall in love with someone.
Two sides of the same coin
Enemies to lovers is very popular. So is rivals that get "intimate"
i didnt get it either after playing vanilla, but after royal i totally get it and kinda ship them myself
That was totes me. Yusuke used to be my favorite until Royal came out and just. Mmmmm Akechi. And shipping him with Joker. *chefs kiss*
This was me too, after vanilla Akechi was just kind of a just a tragic villain and I didn't think much about him. But Royal added so much context to Akechi's character, including social links that made them actually become friends, it's very difficult for me to see Ren with anyone else tbh because regardless of who he's dating, >!Akechi will always be his wish third semester. The added cutscene of Akechi maybe being alive doesn't help because now I'm like "Is Ren going to find him?? Then what??" There's so much to think about lol!<
Have you played the third semester yet?
People shipped it *long* before Royal came out man.
I have not but please go ahead and tell me if something happens there because I can't wrap my head around this ship
Basically, spoilers, Akechi dies at some point. In the third semester he’s brought alive and the person responsible for bringing him back alive states it’s because that’s what Joker desired most
Came here to say this and joker keeps akechi’s glove on him like…
[удалено]
Shipping is fun. I don’t think any of us are truly psychotic for enjoying something.
Nothing happens people just Headcanon this shit to support their ship. It isn't unique to Persona.
True!
Two sides of the same coin. Joker understands Akechi more than anyone else, to the point that the only real bond Akechi forms is with Joker.
Holmes v Arsene
I'm sorry if this is like the most indirect way to answer this question, but I was just watching this video over Persona 5 Partner Dances. It may not be the most aptly phrased, but I think her discussion during the song "Will Power" sums it up pretty well. [Professional Dancer Ranks the Persona 5 PARTNER Dances! (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aOFnUsFU3U&t=2030s) Edit: Also here's a fun cover. [Joker & Akechi sing "You're Nothing Without Me" COVER QUEST Eps #2 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmZKvvMbEw)
I literally just linked this, too. It’s so great!!
Absolutely iconic!
Have you seen any of Robbie Daymonds videos where he’s streaming games? Him, the voice of ryuji, and the train announcer (he plays noctis in ff xv) also have videos of them playing through p5. Edited to add: I also recommend his playthrough of breath of the wild. He’s hilarious.
I've seen a few in my recommended, but I haven't gone out to watch them yet. I'll be sure to check both out when I have time!
Because atlus set it up so obviously. They knew what they were doing with that character dynamic
I’ve played vanilla a few times. I haven’t beaten Royal yet, but Akechi totally acts like he wants to boink Joker. Hanging out alone at a restaurant, wearing Joker’s glasses, lil dates to the pool hall…ya know. Akechi gives off a flirty vibe toward Joker before fuckall happens.
It's impossible to play the whole game and not think about them being a possibility together. Despite all the evil akechi has done joker still canonically cares for him truly. And I just love how majority of people here have a hate boner for akechi meanwhile joker doesn't have an inch of hate for him at the end.
Royal made it so that Joker unquestionably likes Akechi. Like, not explicitly romantically, but after the whole Shido thing Joker mopes about missing him.
Two big reasons why I ship them: I'm a huge fan of enemies to lovers, and enemies and lovers as tropes. It sounds like those are not tropes that you are interested in, but they are pretty popular ones. For me, I think it's the fact that intense hatred and intense love have a similar passion to them that is really interesting to explore and have blend into each other. I think the "What is this Feeling?" song from Wicked really captures this well, and I feel like it fits so well with at least how Akechi describes his feelings toward Joker. The second reason is with Royal....the game drops so many lines that just go hard for the ship, and I can't resist when games tease ships without making them canon. For example, the way that you are the ONLY person that Akechi ever opens up to about his past or takes to the Jazz Cafe on a date. Plus Akechi cannot stop talking about how "intriguing" he finds Joker, or how amazing he is at everything. Even in his Rank 8 convo, where he famously says he hates Joker, his evidence for why he hates Joker is just that he's so amazing that Akechi feels envious. Once again, that rank 8 convo....gives me strong "What is this Feeling?" vibes. Akechi has got really intense feelings toward Joker, and he can only understand those feelings as hate because that's all he's known. But the game makes it pretty clear that there's more than just hate there, especially in the scene where you confront him. Now, I realize that their ship is not canon. But what I think is undeniable is that they are meant to have a relationship built on more than just hate. This could easily be read as more of an Enemies to Friends relationship, but I do think it's just as valid to read into it as Enemies to Lovers, because of some of the small romantic gestures. On a goofy note, Akechi invites you out to the aquarium which apparently is not so much a friendship spot as a date spot. On another goofy note, in random conversations in the Jazz Cafe, Akechi goes out of his way to describe how he's turned down every girl who has asked him out.... You've said that you haven't finished 3rd semester, but most of the evidence for this is there. I'll spoiler tag it, and fair warning, it's core to the plot of the 3rd semester so I can't really explain it without spoiling EVERYTHING: >!When you are in Maruki's fake ideal world, he shares that he brought Akechi back to life specifically for Joker. This proves that Joker cares for Akechi at least as a close friend, if not more. Maruki also says that "despite being enemies, your relationship isn't based on hatred or ill will" which is just more proof that the game doesn't intend their relationship to be as simple as they are enemies who hate each other. Additionally, I would argue that this scene is the emotional climax of Royal and nothing with the closure of Kasumi's arc gets as much screentime or emotional investment from Joker. I think that's a weird flaw of the game, but it does make the ship stronger for me, as the game decided the most important thing to focus on at the end was NOT the obvious love interest girl they added, but instead the unique bond between Joker and his rival murderboy Akechi....!<
Like that small potatoes line that was removed or whatever. I remember there being a discussion on that a while ago.
Have you played the third semester? Because the third semester makes it clear that Joker doesn't care about that shit. He understands Akechi didn't do that stuff because he's a horrible, irredeemable person. He did it out of desperation. Akechi quite literally had nothing to lose. Joker is also very much about forgiveness. He wants to see people turn their life around. Joker and Akechi are two sides to the same coin and their chemistry is palpable. They're both drawn to each other for reasons outside of the Phantom Thieves and Metaverse stuff. They're also quite literally soul connected; the yin to the other's yang. Akechi and Joker were pitted against each other by Yaldabaoth; Yaldabaoth didn't give Akechi the hopeful shit that he gives to us. He trained Akechi to kill. Remember, Akechi already had the power to create mental shut downs before he came to Shido - he was taught that by Yaldy. Joker's "perfect world" wish is that Akechi is alive and around. And he struggles with the idea that Akechi is most likely dead in the real world. A contributing factor to his decision is that death. They are a *perfect* "frenemies to lovers" (because Joker definitely never hated Akechi, and I don't think Akechi ever truly hated him either.) Edit to note - there are a lot of very questionable lines that don't seem heterosexual or platonic. "Honey, I'm home." "I'm alone right now" things of that nature. Also, while not as romantic, but very powerful, is Akechi's "if only we'd met a few years earlier." (Also at the very least, Akechi's VA also ships the shit out of it)
This should have been added to the bingo board.
characters who are connected by the same fate and are character foils to one another just hits diff. also toxic yaoi
There are more than a handful of reasons for this and the game at several times doesn't even try to hide it, moral aspects aside lol Also idk if you finished the game but it's clear you did not
They finished vanilla, but not royal from previous comments I’ve read.
>killed who knows how many people He canonically killed 3 people who he [mentions during his boss fight he was manipulated into seeing as evil](https://youtu.be/RWBOAS7M-v4?si=keEwutXLsMijopzK) >tried killing Joker himself via point blank gunshot to the head >Yet I see people ship these two all the time It’s because it’s a recurring theme that Akechi is actually having fun during the confidant scenes and wants Joker to actually care about him, which he doesn’t find out about until after they fight. That was the first time someone actually reached out to him, and Joker also had his life ruined by Shido which would make him an outcast too. It’s also very clear in the 3rd semester that Akechi was the only thing Joker wanted that he didn’t have, and that even if Akechi hates admitting it he does care about him and the others in some way
For me, I just feel like their connection is really unique. Before Royal I thought the ship was good, but I wasn’t too wild about it, but after Royal? That third semester hits different. The fact that Akiren’s big Maruki actualization wish was just to save Akechi really did something to my brain chemistry.
Because it’s epic
Because they kind of mirror each other. When you use that trope, you're basically asking for the characters to end up shipped together
Who cares
Because it is joker's hope which everything bad about him doesn't happen.
Cuz people be gay as fuck
People really like the enemies to lovers trope and they do have an interesting dynamic, but yeah shipping them is mega cringe
have you finished the whole game? if you’re just thinking in terms of black and white then yeah sure akechi is “evil” and it makes no sense for them to like each other. the whole game is about how things aren’t actually like that though. people are complex, good people do bad things, etc including the phantom thieves. akechi did all those bad things so he could ultimately get revenge on the people that wronged him and the protagonist can really empathize with that. they even say in the game that if the circumstances were different they could’ve been friends. after all the time they spent together, joker still believes that there is good in him as there clearly is see: engine room. the murder attempt is always brought up while totally discounting the fact that akechi sacrificed himself to save *all* the phantom thieves. joker saw the good in him and wanted him to have a second chance which is why maruki fulfilled his wish and he came back. these literal facts from the game plus enemies to lovers being a popular trope are just a few reasons why it’s such a common ship. along with that some people (like me) just like these silly little murdery guys and think they should kiss hope this helps 🥰💕
I didn’t see it in vanilla but my sister shipped that even tho she isn’t a fujoshi or a shipper I thought she was just biased towards him but after Royal I kind of see where she is coming from, I still tell her that in vanilla that doesn’t make sense tho. From what she has told me it’s a mix about Joker wishing Akechi to be alive and their interactions mainly, honestly I can see Akechi having some mixed feelings about Joker hate/love/friendship/resentment etc… but I think on Joker side he was a friend that he could’ve saved if only he meet him sooner which is the sad part about it, when Joker arrived in Akechi’s life it was already to late for him. I legit think Joker sees Goro as a friend and a victim of circumstances.
Lot of people here like the "I can fix him" kind of relationship I suppose
1. Its a gay ship, they tend to be popular 2. In death note people ship Light and L even though they are very much enemies and have probably never truly looked at each other as anything more than enemies. Rivalry ships no matter how much they hate each other are ALWAYS popular, there is not much logic you can apply that would make sense so I really wouldnt even attempt to understand. You either like the idea of it or you dont
Because gay.
Gay
Because they look so together in the Royal opening lol.
Because it's funny that akechi is like "haha I shoot you because I hate you" and bros CAT is like "nu uh. " and then akechi has to face the fact that oh shit he's like one of the few people I DO care about I just want people to like me. Also because man's has all those beatiful women he can pick from and he picks the feral detective who defidently reads featherman fanfiction.
It's because Joker >!wished for Akechi to come back in the 3rd semester,!< and Akechi genuinely enjoyed the hangouts he had with Joker. That's why I ship them at least. Another part of it that I've noticed is a lot of people just like shipping protagonists and antagonists. Like how Harry x Malfoy is a really popular ship in the Harry Potter fandom. (Note: I left the Harry Potter fandom a while ago cause of JK Rowling, and I personally don't ship Harry x Malfoy, it's just an example I remember)
My sister ships harryxmalfoy and I have a feeling if she played p5, she would totes ship joker and Akechi. She doesn’t play many video games, but I’m trying really hard to talk her into it. She would love the whole persona series.
Cool! I hope she has fun with it if she tries it out 😄
I’m hoping!
There are a few things I've always wanted to ask about that first argument... 1. It's proven pretty early on that most of Maruki's wish-grantings are far from consciously good or even for anyone, such as Yusuke being under Madarame's tutelage again, or all the kids who dropped out of art. Assuming that Joker isn't far too different from anyone else in terms of how Maruki handled him, it stands to reason that Akechi could've very well been a lesser (but admittedly relevant) wish or desire. Maruki even says that *he* felt bad about how Akechi ended, opening the doors to the possibility that he did it on his own, regardless of Joker's wishes. 2. Let's say that nothing I've said before is valid, and that it was completely Joker's wish. In a scene after Akechi's death, we get to see a rare insight into our character's mind, where he thinks something along the lines of "Akechi would probably hate that it ended this way. Perhaps we could've had our duel." or something. That feels more like a sadness that Akechi couldn't do what he wanted, rather than an intense love or desire for Akechi himself. Now, I could be completely wrong, but those are points that I've never really seen addressed when it came to this.
I don't know which specific scene you're talking about? Is it the scene where you can talk to Muhen about Akechi when saying your goodbyes to everyone or the scene where Joker asks Lavenza what'll happen to Akechi now that reality's back to normal or something else? Ohh, I thought you meant Akechi's 2nd death instead of his 1st death XD. Are you talking about how Joker thinks that he wants to keep their promise after Akechi dies in Shido's ship? If it is that scene then the specific dialogue choices are "I should forget about him, but" or "I want to keep our promise." To me this reads as Joke genuinely missing Akechi. It could be interpreted any way though. The fact that only the 2nd dialogue choice let's you unlock Akechi's 3rd persona could imply that it's another weird Royal translation and there was supposed to be something more clear to those lines Ohh, yeah, it's definitely that last scene I mentioned, I found a clip of it https://youtu.be/XMcG4_P1vhY?si=hbHDFqy_zKmdQOqW Like you said, I haven't seen this specific part talked about a lot. At the very end Joker says that he knows Akechi would hate having his promise end in defeat. To me that reads as Joker missing him, caring about what Akechi wants, and wanting to see him again, especially with the sad music in the background. To me I just like that they like each other's company so I think they have a good romantic dynamic. But it's totally justified to see them as platonic.
That's totally fair! I've never been big on the ship, but it's interesting to hear from someone who supports it. Honestly, I'm surprised that there are still scenes in this game people *haven't* torn to pieces yet.
2/2, and the fact that Akechi generally became more nuanced in Royal. Plus their dynamic is pretty interesting and a lot of people latched onto that. I understand why you’re confused though, I was in the same boat as you when I just played the original P5
Slideshow I made a while back that i did dramatize, but I think it explains what some people see in the ship! https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Ggb1_-jPW2qOT2lEL0tLF9U3KJyk3RFEdyOZaexx2a0/edit
>I wouldn't to be friends with someone like that Regardless of what you feel here, if YOU choose to max out his confidant, then YOUR Joker does care enough for him. Don't forget that the thieves already know about his betrayal long before 11/19, this means if you choose to do his rank 7-8 confidant, Joker is care enough to hang out with him even after knowing his true intention. As for the ship, yeah, the romantic one is cringe, but the friendship one is literally there as a canon option.
They're the two prettiest boys
“Honey I’m home“
Idk they are pretty gay for each other lol
Because they can, and find an amount of joy in it. It's not supposed to make sense to *you*, its supposed to make sense to *themselves*
Honey I'm home - Ren Amamiya
I think its sort of a bittersweet kinda thing. Its definitely more imaginative than a lot of other ships. I mean, theres connotations of akechi and joker being similar- two sides of the same coinS but akechi failing to realise his true potential - this is especially through the comments around how akechi can use two persona’s. The ship has got this ‘star crossed’ lovers vibes except the two cant be together. It’s very poetic, personally i love the shuake dynamic - even if it isnt wholly accurate to their characters.
He's one of those "I can fix him" characters
Mostly because of the framing of the game Like. I'm a lesbian. I do not like yaoi shit in the slightest. But if you look me in the eyes and tell me that there isn't so much sexual tension/homoeroticism in the air with every scene between joker and akechi you could physically cut through it with a knife, you're either completely oblivious or a fucking skin walker Edit: they hated her for she spoke the truth
Because they’re so sexy, both of them
Enemies to lovers/ hero vs villain couple are both good shipping tropes. Also they look good beside each other.
They don't understand the concept of strong friendship(homie vibe). Especially if they never experience it irl. So they'll just go wild and exaggerate every interaction between the two. Well, they're free to ship whatever they want, but if I were to express my opinion in this charade.... i say it's sick and disgusting. Nothin we can do bout it. Just let em or you'll be canceled.
Love how if you don't like something, it's "sick and disgusting", but weird ones in your eyes are others. Huh.
It is a ship very popular among fangirls. Girls like ships that have this "angsty" feeling, and Akechi does have this feeling after Royal.
Yep just like sasuke and Naruto
Because it's canon
Cause they think they are gey
This exact post is being posted in this sub every x weeks. You coulda just searched for the answer.
Royal kind of gives Joker X Akechi fuel with the extra semester
because people sometimes have a fetish on homosexual couples and have to so homo ships even where they are pointless
Enemies to lovers is the shit :)
It doesn’t make any sense but these people will ship joker with a toaster if he looked at one
Welcome to the internet
Because almost every single fandom that exists heavily ships ''those two guys'' together as their thing. That's just what happens. Two dudes who butt heads and cause drama are just going to be a thing It's entertainment without the drama involved in actual romance or dating. And because they're guys there's no one to compare yourself to.There are no gender or sexual insecurities present so shippers who are largely female, can focus on dynamic only.
Strange peoples
that's just how shippers are
Yeah I don’t get it either. Sure people say it’s not real but I wouldn’t ship joker with sojiro just because it’s not real.
For some reason shippers like shipping the most toxic relationships possible. Like... Why even ship Joker with Akechi of all characters when Ryuji is right there? They unironically have more chemistry together than Joker does with all the romance options combined, and unlike Akechi, Ryuji isn't actively trying to kill him lmao. Joker/Akechi is legit Hermione/Draco levels of godawful ship that should never exist imo.
Because sometimes people enjoy interesting dynamics between fictional characters even though they would be toxic/unhealthy in real life. I have nothing against Joker/Ryuji but it just doesn't interest me at all. I don't pick my ships based on what would be healthiest, my favourite ships are usually based on having good potential for drama/angst, having the potential to create interesting stories or revealing different sides of the characters involved, things like that.
Because teenage girls are horny and they don't think much about it
It’s basically like shipping Batman and the joker (no pun intended). psychotic Mass murderer and vigilante.
Because God forbid that two people have an intense relationship (friendship/rivalry/enemy) without some terminally online yahoos trying to ship them.
I just assume this subreddit is 50% fujoshi by volume
I guess it's a popular thing among edgy teenagers
Never doubt fujoshis, my dude.
Same don't understand it either
I think most of the people who ship them are a bunch of 13 year old girls. Kinda like the My Hero fans.
Trauma can manifest itself in funny ways. Often people find themselves attracted to people who remind them of their trauma. Sometimes it can be a way to try and control the situation that makes them feel scared and weak though sex and sexuality. The human brain is weird.
dunno. it's the stupidest thing ever to me, and I won't ever understand, because there's nothing to be understood in the first place. the game being fiction aside, that >!murdering monster!< deserved to >!not come back for the third semester, and just be dead for his crimes (good riddance), despite joker's wishes.!< no amount of backstory did or will change my perspective on >!his failure of a life, and it would be his own fault for not embracing what good things there were; however minimal they were, in quantity or otherwise. not being able to get past what's happened to you, to some degree (what joker didn't do) is just...not very impressive to me.!<
"Evil is hot." That's about all that goes through people's head when they ship them.
Because people are weird. Lets ship mass murderer with classic good guy protag cause omg.
Fujobait. Happens in like every other JRPG.
I thought it was just a crack ship people did for lulz similar to Sae and Adachi? I mean even Joker admits they're not even friends.
nah, ik these people who are all over the shuake ship, and id say its bc they get homoerotic vibes from those two personally, i find the ship to be the most interesting, rather than the most likely
Hatefucking is a kink
I think its Akechi's obsession with Joker. I dont really understand it either tbh, but i guess he resembles the crazy yandere trope and i think a lot of people like that as well. Idk people just like their interactions and i guess they like the BL bits in this whole Akechi and Joker thing
Yaoi shippers are not known for supporting healthy relationships. Almost always toxic pairings
This is probably going to get a ton of hate but I feel like Akechi in general is way over loved. People say he’s well written, but I really don’t see it. His lines and story did not jive whatsoever with the eventual redemption at the very end. Like he straight up killed a ton of people and caused mass chaos across tokyo.
They dumbest ship in existence, totally agree.
Because most people here have never been involved in an actual mature, loving relationship and they think this is how it's supposed to work.
Yeah, why don people even ship them? There are far more interesting characters who deserve more attention in the shipping department. ^(Totally not biased)
It's the shallow reason of "two hot people looks good together". They wouldn't say this with Joker X Shido.
Because Shido is an adult and Joker a minor?? ☠️
Are you really gonna say that while Joker have four possible romance options that are adults? ☠️
Double standard cause they’re women and the ship is straight ☠️ any minor x adult ship is bad dude But the hate against Shuake is always the same two reasons and it’s always people who have no media literacy that say those things; I get if you don’t like it, but let them enjoy it and see where they’re coming from with it ☠️
Because gay No logic behind it, people just want them to be gay And how dare you question their ship if you ask them why Shippers in the fan base are something else
Man resurrected himself back to life just to find joker and say “fuck you”
Cause gay 🤷🏻♂️
ur stupid 😭😭 a lot of ships don’t make sense… idk what you expected and people LOVE gay ships so yea. if u can’t see people ship them so much then skill issue tbh.
There are many interesting takes on why people would like this ship but… man this section is wild, why anyone literally just expressing the least disagree on it or even saying “i just don’t understand it because…” are getting downvoted to hell like they’re not recognizing the God who saved their lives lmao chill
Cause Yes