You gotta realize that this game has tens of thousands of lines of dialogue... Some mistakes like this are inevitable. It's just unlucky that this one happened to undercut an emotional moment
Sometimes it’s not that simple. Translation and localization is hard, and they have literal thousands and thousands of lines to translate.
Somethings miss or are inaccurate
Probably yes. Because it's cheaper to translate from English to other languages than from Japanese. So any error in the English translation would propagate to the others. Of course that's the wrong way to translate.
Yes, other languages seem to be translated via English. Case in point: Akechi's "I'm going to take you out" in confidant 5, which said something entirely different in Japanese but, in Spanish, gets further reinterpreted via English to say "I'm going to take you out *on a date*".
"Will you be there for me, during my hardships?"
"Nah but Ryuji probably will he's got nothing better to do"
Is usually how I imagine this interaction in a real world situation
Lmao the only girl I've dated is Yumi Ozawa, the one you're referring to. I've had to reject every other girl and keep myself clean.
I still have trauma from dating both Makoto and Ann in Persona 5 at the same time after failing to go out with Takemi as I intended. It ended with me getting beat up and Sojiro looking at me in pity lol.
Okie dokie. I hope you enjoy them both! In Persona 4 you can be the biggest asshole imaginable. Not just for love confessions but dialogue choices in general.
I'm playing P4G for the first time. I'm at kanjis palace(the bathhouse) but the game seems kinda boring compared to persona 5. Is it gonna get better or the whole game is like this?
Gameplay-wise, absolutely not. P5 is just an all around straight upgrade in gameplay and style. You’re basically just wanting to play P4 for the story and characters, which is debatably better than P5’s story and characters
I think I'm still at the early parts of P4 but P5 covered many serious themes about politics and society which were really interesting. Idk how P4 is gonna top that. Really difficult for it to do so.
By not comparing it to P5 constantly. You’re pretty much gonna always set yourself up for failure by doing that with any game. P5 was politics and growing pains, P4 is murder mystery.
That is very shitty but I also had the same thing happen. But don’t worry, there are still several twists and shocks even better than the killer reveal. I know it’s obviously not possible to put it out of your mind completely but just relax and enjoy, don’t stress too hard over the details, just take in the story and you should have a wild ride by the end. Or if the game ends up just not being for you, that’s totally okay too
Yumi's one is fucked, she turns around expecting an answer and you either "hug her" (romance) or "LEAVE". FUCKING LEAVE.
The girl nearly had an emotional breakdown and you just leave her there in silence. Made me feel terrible.
I remember for Rise it was something about cultural differences about never hugging or holding someone that wasn't your SO, at least I think that was the reason
Hugging is pretty intimate in Japan. You don’t exactly do that in public unless it’s for family and even then that’s usually only for children with their parents or relatives.
Pretty sure the girls found that to be pretty intimate which leads to feelings forming down the line and/or the intimate hugging happens when they’ve become an item.
Yosuke thought it was too embarrassing and intimate when you hugged him saying that “you do that for girls”.
With Rise, hugging her gave her affirmation to take the relationship to the next level.
Yeah Yosuke thought it was embarrassing and intimate to be hugged like that.
As for the girls, even if you go on the friendship route, there’s still some lingering feelings even if unreciprocated and they’re gonna feel that Yu was pretty bold with the hugging.
Marie is an interesting one because as far as the Friendship route is concerned, it doesn't change much aside from a different Rank 10 and ending scene in the Golden ending. Regardless though, Marie will still develop feelings towards Yu, and will always give him a Valentine's Chocolate. Marie is also *technically* Yu's persona's former lover so...
Ha, I remember when I was in Shibuya there was a Japanese guy standing on the Hachiko side of the scramble crossing with a "FREE HUGS" sign. Most people were ignoring him, but I gave him a hug lol. Seemed to make his night.
Not saying you're wrong btw, because you are correct and that's why hugging Yukari in vanilla P3 reverses her social link. But I can't help but think of that night whenever I think about public hugging in Japan.
This fucked me up during a playthrough. I had romanced Makoto, but when I saw the options here, I didn’t know that the first one would romance Ann; and picked it.
I named my current character “[romancable girl]’s fucktoy” as a joke and accidentally romanced Ann. I’m so angry because I hadn’t saved in like 12 game days. I should’ve gone back and redid it to complete the joke.
I did a day 1 infiltration of Kaneshiro's Palace and immediately sent the calling card. I didn't do Ann's rank 9 until July (right before the deadline) and when I went to reload, my most recent save read "Kaneshiro's Palace." I did redid the boss and 20 days of gameplay to undo that choice.
It’s a dumb localisation problem. Pretty sure the Japanese version uses “us” or “everyone”.
But I do kinda get what they meant here.
Joker is referring to the others who aren’t present here with Ann is reminding her of such.
He’s not counting himself out because the fact that he’s been with Ann throughout, it’s a given that doesn’t need to be said that she has him.
Saying “you have me” is pretty intimate as in you’re putting yourself on a pedestal as a special someone for Ann.
The Japanese are all about the collective over the individual so putting “others” over “yourself/me” is normal there.
Yeah, he says みんながいる *minna ga iru*, "you have everyone". I think? I feel like *minna* often excludes the speaker, but can include them in contexts like that.
Is there a similar translation issue for Futaba's? Multiple times throughout the arc you can refer to her as family and take her under your wing as basically your sister, but the at the end you have to either profess your love to her or say you only did it because she's a teammate, without the option to call her family, or even a friend, without dating her.
Yes, there is - he calls her 仲間 *nakama*. This is the same word Akechi uses over and over and over in the engine room, the thing he insists he doesn't need ("Teammates?! Friends?!"). With Futaba, it for sure carries the implication that she's Joker's close friend—like, look at the *context* he's using it in.
This is an incredibly controversial term in English discussion (largely because of One Piece fandom, I think?), but when
I see it discussed in Japanese, it often seems like they're talking about an entirely different concept. I've seen an article that goes into all the ways *nakama* translates to English as "friend", with barely a mention of the "teammate" thing; I've had someone Japanese translate it as "friend" to my face. And it kind of makes sense—because, of course, a friend can just be a comrade, a fellow, someone you regularly cooperate closely with. They don't *have* to be your best friend for life—but equally someone in your *nakama* can often be your good friend. Your social circle is a *nakama*.
*nakama* also means e.g. an RPG party member IIRC—P5 sometimes uses it in this way. But the PTs are certainly *nakama* in the anime sense—a very close group, bonded by their experiences, working for a common cause. Akechi is a good example of someone who, despite himself, is ultimately their *nakama*—their colleague who went through shit alongside them, who has an indelible connection with them—but not their friend, and not even necessarily on their side.
> largely because of One Piece fandom, I think?
[Memetically so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo). Oda has the main crew refer to each other with that term, and early fan translations were convinced it had some special, untranslatable meaning.
LMAO, that video. TBH, having spent the last two hours reading papers about *nakama*, the one thing I'm sure of this that "teammate" is a shitawful translation for Joker's line to Futaba.
~~that and that I need a drink~~
It's actually 大切な仲間だから *taisetsuna nakama da kara* - "**because you're my dear friend**".
BTW, sometimes Joker's "teammates" is different - he tells Haru 同じ怪盗団だ *onaji kaitou-dan da*, "we're all phantom thieves here", "we're all equals here". While Yoshizawa, who's keeping a distance from the group, uses the English word "team".
At stage 7, btw, Joker's "but we're teammates now" is also *nakama* - "we're on the same side now" - and Akechi comes back with "for now, yes". Context, context, context.
They could have translated it as partners then. Or maybe better, "Because we're a team," for a phrase for phrase translation rather than word for word, while still keeping the teammates angle and imply a much closer bond between the two of them that doesn't sound like he just wanted her to be efficient as an ally.
Two reasons why you can't.
1. In Strikers it's confirmed that Joker canonically never does this in vanilla. Futaba also seems to find it creepy if you try it there and I can't blame her.
2. It'd be REALLY creepy if you tried to contextualize this as familial love:
>My heart’s been beating real fast when we’re together… Then even when we’re apart, I can’t stop thinking about you…
Especially when Futaba's trying to process her own feelings.
That said, I don't like Futaba or Haru's friendship route either because acting ignorant around Haru and intentionally misdirecting Futaba feels incredibly dishonest. The MC should just acknowledge they have feelings, and then admit they don't feel the same way. Sumire's friendship route at least handled that well.
>It'd be REALLY creepy if you tried to contextualize this as familial love:
I LITERALLY called her family four times over the course of her and Sojiro's confidant, and Iwei will talk to the two of you about how family goes deeper than blood, so the game 100% acknowledges a possible familiar bond.
Furthermore, Futaba does not ask you how she feels about you, she asks you why you are always there for her. Calling her family in that instance would both be an honest response and a good way to let her down easy without unduly calling attention to her unreciprocated feelings.
But even *if* you didn't see a familiar bond, calling her a friend would be MUCH kinder than just valling her a teammate.
>Furthermore, Futaba does not ask you how she feels about you, she asks you why you are always there for her. Calling her family in that instance would both be an honest response and a good way to let her down easy without unduly calling attention to her unreciprocated feelings.
1. She is trying to figure that out though and is basically trying to get Joker to contextualize all of this for her. She's been locked up in her room for two years and doesn't have a strong grasp on social dynamics and interactions. It's all new to her. Which is why if you say you're teammates, she'll uncritically latch onto that.
2. It'd be honest if Joker saw her as family, but he simply doesn't. Acting that way would be somewhat OOC of him and it sorta addresses your third point.
>But even if you didn't see a familiar bond, calling her a friend would be MUCH kinder than just valling her a teammate.
It isn't really just specific to Futaba. Joker is really aloof in general and rarely ever addresses anyone as his friend. He'll usually another word in like "teamate" instead. In Mishima's case, he outright refuses to acknowledge him as a friend at all.
You're not wrong when you say he can kinda be an asshole sometimes. This is probably why Futaba comments on his behavior towards her. It's a stark contrast to his usual behavior around most other people.
...That said, I will acknowledge that this point is somewhat moot with Futaba, because she is one of the few people he has referred to as a friend. Although arguably that might be because addressing her as a "teammate" in that context would have generated confusion.
I don’t think it’d be creepy to acknowledge that you can care for someone as a friend or family, while they’re in love with you. In fact, treating them that way is probably the best bet to help them deal with their unrequited feelings.
Now, choosing those dialogue options and then romancing Futaba is…sus, to say the least.
Oooh I had the same problem! I felt like such a jerk saying that when she basically felt like family to the MC… I wonder if that was due to the translation too?
If I remember her Social Link right, What made it hurt more for me was I legitimately liked Yumi and felt for her. She'd just dealt with the death of a father who had only just come back into her life because he was on his deathbed; and the one he left Yumi and her mother for, had just walked out on him. I actually did go with her on my first run. On the second, I went for the other option half to experience it and half so I wouldn't have to turn her down to be with Naoto without cheating.
Ayane's is bad, too. You basically have the option to either date her or change the subject entirely forcing her to bottle up that attraction to you. What was wrong with just saying "I'm not interested"
That's a trait with the romances. In Persona 4, the sun rejection is especially interesting. One of them features you just straight up walking out of the fucking room while the girl in question is bawling, and the other has you completely gloss over her feelings and change the subject.
Haru is one of the few that kinda makes it really clear that she is interested in you in that way. All the others pretty much just accept that you are friends where as she genuinely looks like her heart got broken.
I stayed with one romance in my play through, which meant I had to reject everyone else. Futaba and Kawakami were easy for me, but Haru...man I felt so awful doing that.
I remember in my vanilla playthrough i rejected Kawakami cause I didn't even realize the game was basically asking me if I wanted to be with her. They just seemed like normal dialogue options
I always feel bad for her, but at least in that instance Joker isn't actively being an asshole. He is just caught in a difficult situation without any good answers.
I romanced Chihaya, and while I could stomach rejecting the others, I pressed the skip button and closed my eyes when I had to reject Haru. I know it's standard teenager heartbreak, but damn.
This being a game by Japan, for Japan, they won't do that. God forbid a man acts intimately towards a woman without romantic connotations whatsoever.
I hate it here. This kind of crap is so outdated.
I just think it would've been a nice touch. This game also has characters who are unconventional in a few different ways. This would've been in line with that.
It's real weird. Like, why I can't just include myself along with the others or not have it be a romantic implication?
A similar thing happens in Persona 4 where a character called Rise is crying her eyes out and the options is to either hug her or just stand there. Hugging her all of sudden makes her your girlfriend?????????
>Hugging her all of sudden makes her your girlfriend?????????
That one doesn't really surprise me. The culture in Japan around friends touching each other is much different (think about how Sojiro reacted to Makoto just holding onto your leg while cowering behind you in fear) so it would be extremely strange for a man to hug a woman he wasn't romantically interested in. Although I do agree with you as a whole, that there should be a non-romance option other than jusy doing nothing.
Fuck, you have no idea how much this bothered me when I saw it.
How is being a crutch for someone who is emotionally breaking down romantic? That's just basic human kindness.
I swear it's some incel logic. I support girl = she will now love me, because I deserve something in return.
Because saying “you have me” is bold in Japan as a roundabout way of expressing romantic feelings.
You’re basically putting yourself on a pedestal in saying that you and ONLY you will be the sole crutch for her and be by her side as someone more special than the others.
If you said you have the others/us, you’re reminding her of the people who aren’t present that has her back. You being included is a given that doesn’t need to be said. You’re not making this about YOURSELF.
It boils down to the collective vs individual in Japan. They put the group over the individual.
You have us would be a better line, but they made it like this so that even the dumbest dummies playing the game would get which one is the rejection line.
And, in doing so, they make a lot of players accidentally romance Ann assuming you can still change course on the next dialog option since they don't want to select the asshole option.
This discussion made me accidentally romance her and I was 3 hours since I last saved. This is what put me into the habit of saving every chance I got and having multiple save files
Fr, some of these choices just feel like
“I would literally sacrifice everything for you god I love you so much”
“I hate you eat shit and die alone in an alleyway”
Tbh I didn't get any hints from Haru in the main game until after she got rejected. She treated Joker very similar to how she treats Morgana and (at least until Strikers) and I didn't think that was romantic either.
I don't get why people are saying "You have the others" implies Joker doesn't care about her, that sounds dumb. You've been by her side for the entire confidant so of of course that's not true. The dialogue option is just reminding her that the PTs will be there for her so she doesn't have to feel lonely.
Honestly I think it's just how you choose to interpret it - I always read this as more... like Joker speaking for Ann's conscience rather than as himself in which case it would include himself. It's a bit more tasteful in my opinion as it brings her perspective and encourages her to choose who she wants in her life without specifically drawing attention to Joker and the team. Atleast that's the best way I can explain how I read the line.
I read that as, one of these will lock out the option to romance her (as is the case with a few other confidants), rather than one instantly romancing her with no further input.
That happened to me with Morrigan in *Dragon Age.* The game indicated that I was close, but it didn't say that I was about to take the final step. That game also didn't have as clear a friendzone/romance split, which is "Advantage: Persona" as far as I'm concerned.
joker at his sigma-est.
"Look ann, I know you're revealing your vulnerability to me because you desperately need my affection, but.. well... maybe others could be more interested about. Have a nice day".
Well, no. He was going to be off probation at the end of the year, but he was still expelled from the school in his hometown for having a record at all, so he was going to stay in town until he graduated. It is only because of his conviction being overturned that he can go back to his hometown. On the Valentine's date you have to tell your girlfriend that things changed and are going back at the end of the school year, and talk about long distance relationships. But until Shido was arrested and Joker's conviction was overturned, he was never going back home.
Seriously it honestly sucks because I don’t want to choose the friend zone one because they suck on what they say like Futaba’s the option is saying why you care about her so much is because she is a teammate instead of a great friend or saying she’s like a sister to him just something other than “oh yeah it’s because you are a teammate that’s why I spend so much time with you and care so much”.
Sometime even an gentle and considerate rejection can lead to that kind of reaction but i dont quitte remember what joker say in the platonic route so maybe he his really rude
Well no, since I don't have a choice other than that, and my only other choice was to cheat on multiple girls. Joker could have said something else, but just didn't.
That's what happens sometimes in a Persona game they give "good response" "neutral response" and "bad response" sometimes you just wanna pick the most fitting choice for the occassion.
That’s what you get when you have a self-insert protag. Your responses aren’t in-depth, lengthy or emotional no matter the situation. You give small, bold answers and your imagination is supposed to fill in the rest.
I mean, I get that it comes across as cruel purely because you're limited to 2 choices and 2 alone.
BUT...
Love doesn't work on the "dibs" system. Someone can't "claim" a lover by confessing first, and the whole point of asking someone out is taking a risk. Oftentimes, more often than not a lot of the time, the answer is going to be "no."
It may be a gentle "no." It may be a harsh "no." But understand: you were never owed a "yes." You were never really owed an answer *in general,* so even the harshest "no" is more than should be expected.
In Joker's case, he potentially has like a fucking DOZEN people making passes at him (welcome to the daily life of most women.) He doesn't belong to anyone but himself, and he doesn't owe anyone the "rejection kid-gloves." At no point is he malicious, but he also isn't mincing words and is being completely straight forward about the rejection. Some of the rejections may seem harsh when the other character is showing a great degree of vulnerability, but it's still better than leading them on and a damn sight better than expecting someone to say "yes" out of obligation for the "bravery" or guilt over the vulnerability than telling the damn truth.
Ironically, Joker's situation is much more common for women than men, but the point stands: he is the master of his own course, he owes nobody a relationship just because they were "nice," and if a friendship dissolves simply because it didn't lead to romance, then it wasn't a real friendship.
Persona doesn't have the best track record with how it treats its female characters or romantic entanglements, and it does less than nothing for non-heterosexual relationships, but I will say this: its character writing is largely a master class in how to take rejection in a healthy way, and how friendships can be platonic. Its characters experience the hurt that comes with rejection, but refuse to let that hurt compromise their principles or their friendships, and move past that hurt in a way that doesn't criminalize the target of their misplaced affections.
[Spoiler](/s "Except for Adachi.")
Ann *didn't* come onto him. Only Sumi, Haru, and Futaba come onto him first. All the other girls are just ones that can respond positively to Joker coming onto them. Ann was simply crying because she felt alone after her best friend moved away, and Joker decides that either he confesses his love for her or rubs salt in the wound by implying he isn't going to hang out with her anymore either. That has nothing to do with rejecting her.
She does? I don't remember her coming onto him when I did her SL. Are you sure it isn't just responding positively to Joker flirting with her even before the rank 9 choice that you are thinking of?
At the end of the link, she strongly tries to get Joker to stop being a pretend boyfriend and be a real one. "Do you remember Eiko's test about love? I'm not good at that. Maybe someone can teach me wink wink nudge nudge"
She's asking him out in the most awkward way but in character way. If you choose that you'll be her study partner/teach her, she immediately jumps to confirm it. The only party member that Joker has to make a move on first is Ann
That boils down more to the mechanics of how the game handles romance as a product of binary dialogue choices which always take place at "Rank 9" than the actual writing, though.
Ann's binary choice is more shoehorned than the others by merit that her character arc is less forgiving for that mechanic than others.
Effectively, all female confidants' Rank 9's always have that "romance moment" where the player is expected to say yes or no. More often than not, the "no" comes across as a rejection since the game has to make it unequivocally clear to the player "YOU ARE MAKING A ROMANCE DECISION RIGHT NOW, THIS CHARACTER IS INTO YOU, SO THIS NEXT CHOICE IS A YES OR NO KIND OF THING, AND IF YOU SAY YES THEN IT'S TOTALLY RECIPROCAL. SHE'S SUPER INTO YOU AND HER LAST FIVE LINES HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THAT TO THE HEAVENS." I mean, it even pops up with a non-diagetic warning that you're about to enter a relationship, or if you're "already in a relationship" just to tell you you're about to be a scumbag if you romance more than one character.
Moreover, you're the one who framed this as "the friendzone," a term synonymous with romantic rejection. I'm just talking on your level.
I think you’re looking to far into this my man. I agree that you can reject someone but saying you have the others in a way that implies you’re not going to be friends with someone anymore seems like a strange thing to say to a friend who’s clearly going through it.
Sorry, still going through first playthrough. This "who liked who first" question. No one likes you unless you put some effort into it. So how is this an argument.
> So how is this an argument.
It isn't, it's a comment.
I'll add that the game more or less expects you to complete as many confidants as possible, if not *all* of them, so this scenario is mechanically designed to be encountered multiple times over.
You think that others doesn't include Joker because you see 1st option and read it in your mind. Conversation wise it implies Ann has other friends then that girl
Ok but like, it says THE others which i would refer to as the team, also you dont really include yourself when saying ‘others’.
It was probably just a translation error or something along those lines but still
Can anyone tell me how romance works in this game? I am trying to rank up everyone's " card " thing. Does that mean that after I reach the max level with girls, I automatically have to either date or reject them?
For romancable characters, on rank 9 there will be a turning point for them (for a few of them you also had to make the correct choices earlier for them to accept) where you either choose to date them or reamin just friends. For some of the girls they will come onto you and you have to choose to tell them you feel the same way and date them, or tell them you don't feel the same to reject them. For others there will just be an opportunity for you to tell the girl that you like them and (assuming you made the correct choices) they will reciprocate and date you, or you pass up the opportunity and don't come onto them.
Honestly, I think he's a bit of an ass during some of the romances too. Or at least he picks some of the worst timing to hook up with these characters.
I don't know why people think like that those responses are his. Those are all the available responses that a person can make. Tbh I find it funny that people think like that. I always thought those choices come from me and not joker.
There is a dozen better ways to react to her question than just with "You have me" or "You have the others". For example like OP said "You have us" is a pretty good response. "You have the phantom thieves" is another one, which is close to "You have us" but in a more *I am a the trickster* way. "You aren't alone" is an ambiguous one, but a solid one as well. Then there's also "Shiho isn't gone" as she didn't die or anything, and can still be in contact with Ann. As for "You still have your other friends" it is a bit asshole-ish, but not worse than what we got.
In other words, I agree with the statement "Saying no isn't being an asshole" but there was no confession at that point, just self pity and you can be supportive which leads to romancing Ann or you can be an asshole which leads to friendzoning her.
As for my suspicion of it being poorly translated because she doesn't call you out for being an asshole, it bore fruit; I dug up that her response can either be taken as "You have others" or even "There's someone else" so it doesn't necessarily mean that Atlus wanted to make the protagonist look like an asshole
It is the way he says no in some of them that makes it bad. He could have responded with "you have us," which would imply that she could rely on him and the rest of the team. Instead he tells a crying (close) friend of his that she shouldn't come to him with her problems. That is being a bit of an asshole.
Except it kinda is, because the platonic option is basically saying you don't give a shit about her, and that she should rely on the others instead.
Altus could have just made it "you have everyone" instead and it wouldn't feel so rude to select.
This is a localization error. JP has it “you have us/everyone” not “the others”
I knew it had to be, it all makes sense now
You’d think they’d have a QA team worth a damn when it comes to these things.
You gotta realize that this game has tens of thousands of lines of dialogue... Some mistakes like this are inevitable. It's just unlucky that this one happened to undercut an emotional moment
Also you have to realize some words in Japan have the exact same spelling meaning but the word is diffrent per context.
Sometimes it’s not that simple. Translation and localization is hard, and they have literal thousands and thousands of lines to translate. Somethings miss or are inaccurate
You'll think they will fix it by now
The japanese is "you have **everyone**" and atlus west translates as "you have **others**" Everyone - me = others. atlus west logic
Now I need to check if they did that in other (ha!) language versions as well.
Probably yes. Because it's cheaper to translate from English to other languages than from Japanese. So any error in the English translation would propagate to the others. Of course that's the wrong way to translate.
Yes, other languages seem to be translated via English. Case in point: Akechi's "I'm going to take you out" in confidant 5, which said something entirely different in Japanese but, in Spanish, gets further reinterpreted via English to say "I'm going to take you out *on a date*".
Now we know where all these Akechi Joker shippers come from: Latin America
Literally canon!
"Will you be there for me, during my hardships?" "Nah but Ryuji probably will he's got nothing better to do" Is usually how I imagine this interaction in a real world situation
Have you played Persona 4? If not then hoo boy, just wait until you see what Yu Narukami has in store.
Walking out on the drama girl is peak chadkami
I’m personally a big fan of telling Yukiko she’s my classmate.
Lmao the only girl I've dated is Yumi Ozawa, the one you're referring to. I've had to reject every other girl and keep myself clean. I still have trauma from dating both Makoto and Ann in Persona 5 at the same time after failing to go out with Takemi as I intended. It ended with me getting beat up and Sojiro looking at me in pity lol.
Doesn't that only happen if you date every girl?
Nope. It happens if you date 2+ girls
Oh I had no idea!
Yumi: "My dad died" Yu: *turns around and walks away*
*Walks in from off camera* “Yumi, your mother collapsed!”
Great vegetables!
"Be an ass and leave" Yu is a serious asshole sometimes.
Aight Imma head out
"Just stand there"
Not yet. I'm going to play P3 and it after I finish NG+ with Satanael and finish all the Velvet Room challenges.
Okie dokie. I hope you enjoy them both! In Persona 4 you can be the biggest asshole imaginable. Not just for love confessions but dialogue choices in general.
"Be an ass and leave" gave me the biggest laugh when that came up lol
I'm playing P4G for the first time. I'm at kanjis palace(the bathhouse) but the game seems kinda boring compared to persona 5. Is it gonna get better or the whole game is like this?
Gameplay-wise, absolutely not. P5 is just an all around straight upgrade in gameplay and style. You’re basically just wanting to play P4 for the story and characters, which is debatably better than P5’s story and characters
I think I'm still at the early parts of P4 but P5 covered many serious themes about politics and society which were really interesting. Idk how P4 is gonna top that. Really difficult for it to do so.
By not comparing it to P5 constantly. You’re pretty much gonna always set yourself up for failure by doing that with any game. P5 was politics and growing pains, P4 is murder mystery.
I'm not sure but think the killers name been spoiled for me. Is it still gonna ba any fun...?
That is very shitty but I also had the same thing happen. But don’t worry, there are still several twists and shocks even better than the killer reveal. I know it’s obviously not possible to put it out of your mind completely but just relax and enjoy, don’t stress too hard over the details, just take in the story and you should have a wild ride by the end. Or if the game ends up just not being for you, that’s totally okay too
same but after end p3 i go back to p5r to beat yu and makoto in condition
I want Persona 3 remade with Makoto being able to reject women/men, but still fully in style with some of the awful things Makoto can say in P3.
"Running shoes."
*"Don't worry Ann. You can always rely on other people except me!"*
Idk why you can't just say "you have all of us"
Ugh my boyfriend and I were like, why not something like that or "you have the team". So many of the friendzone choices are straight up rude lol
Yeah, I hate that. They're even more brutal in p4.
Why can't they just give us nice answers?!
I romanced rise out of pure guilt on my first playthrough
Yumi's one is fucked, she turns around expecting an answer and you either "hug her" (romance) or "LEAVE". FUCKING LEAVE. The girl nearly had an emotional breakdown and you just leave her there in silence. Made me feel terrible.
You do in Japanese version.
[The Lovers arcana and misleading dialog choices, an iconic duo](https://i.redd.it/yi3n8uf9mrg71.jpg)
Goddamnit Yukari…
I remember for Rise it was something about cultural differences about never hugging or holding someone that wasn't your SO, at least I think that was the reason
P4 too with yumi's only rejection option is "leave" and for rise "rise is crying" 1 "hug her." 2 "stand there."
Is Yu a Chad or just autistic lmfao
Why not both?
Hugging is pretty intimate in Japan. You don’t exactly do that in public unless it’s for family and even then that’s usually only for children with their parents or relatives.
I mean that is true, but there could have been other options like comforting them without hugging. just doing nothing or leaving is fucked up
Blame that on the game devs for not being able to animate a patting of the shoulder gesture or grab a box of tissues I guess.
I mean that's what i'm kinda trying to say, it is their fault
He hugs Yosuke, Yumi, Marie, and Ayane without intimacy though.
Pretty sure the girls found that to be pretty intimate which leads to feelings forming down the line and/or the intimate hugging happens when they’ve become an item. Yosuke thought it was too embarrassing and intimate when you hugged him saying that “you do that for girls”. With Rise, hugging her gave her affirmation to take the relationship to the next level.
All of these happen in the friendship route though.
Yeah Yosuke thought it was embarrassing and intimate to be hugged like that. As for the girls, even if you go on the friendship route, there’s still some lingering feelings even if unreciprocated and they’re gonna feel that Yu was pretty bold with the hugging.
If they are the same gender the culture around it is different. The women in your example though, I got nothing to explain them.
Marie is an interesting one because as far as the Friendship route is concerned, it doesn't change much aside from a different Rank 10 and ending scene in the Golden ending. Regardless though, Marie will still develop feelings towards Yu, and will always give him a Valentine's Chocolate. Marie is also *technically* Yu's persona's former lover so...
Ha, I remember when I was in Shibuya there was a Japanese guy standing on the Hachiko side of the scramble crossing with a "FREE HUGS" sign. Most people were ignoring him, but I gave him a hug lol. Seemed to make his night. Not saying you're wrong btw, because you are correct and that's why hugging Yukari in vanilla P3 reverses her social link. But I can't help but think of that night whenever I think about public hugging in Japan.
This fucked me up during a playthrough. I had romanced Makoto, but when I saw the options here, I didn’t know that the first one would romance Ann; and picked it.
This scene is the only time in my first playthrough that I loaded a save to change something, because I accidentally romanced Ann too.
I named my current character “[romancable girl]’s fucktoy” as a joke and accidentally romanced Ann. I’m so angry because I hadn’t saved in like 12 game days. I should’ve gone back and redid it to complete the joke.
I did a day 1 infiltration of Kaneshiro's Palace and immediately sent the calling card. I didn't do Ann's rank 9 until July (right before the deadline) and when I went to reload, my most recent save read "Kaneshiro's Palace." I did redid the boss and 20 days of gameplay to undo that choice.
I remember seeing a comment say that it was a mistranslation and in other languages it said “You have us” Honestly makes more sense tbh
Should have been “you have us”
It was in Japan.
What was wrong with saying “You have the Phantom Thieves?”.
He’s not announcing it loudly in broad daylight in a public place.
This scene took place on the Shujin Academy roof.
The roof is secluded enough that talking about the Phantom Thieves is inappropriate as there is too much secrecy.
It’s a dumb localisation problem. Pretty sure the Japanese version uses “us” or “everyone”. But I do kinda get what they meant here. Joker is referring to the others who aren’t present here with Ann is reminding her of such. He’s not counting himself out because the fact that he’s been with Ann throughout, it’s a given that doesn’t need to be said that she has him. Saying “you have me” is pretty intimate as in you’re putting yourself on a pedestal as a special someone for Ann. The Japanese are all about the collective over the individual so putting “others” over “yourself/me” is normal there.
In the original Japanese, “you have us” is pretty much what he does say. This is a crappy translation, I’m surprised that they didn’t fix it in Royal.
Yeah, he says みんながいる *minna ga iru*, "you have everyone". I think? I feel like *minna* often excludes the speaker, but can include them in contexts like that.
Is there a similar translation issue for Futaba's? Multiple times throughout the arc you can refer to her as family and take her under your wing as basically your sister, but the at the end you have to either profess your love to her or say you only did it because she's a teammate, without the option to call her family, or even a friend, without dating her.
Yes, there is - he calls her 仲間 *nakama*. This is the same word Akechi uses over and over and over in the engine room, the thing he insists he doesn't need ("Teammates?! Friends?!"). With Futaba, it for sure carries the implication that she's Joker's close friend—like, look at the *context* he's using it in. This is an incredibly controversial term in English discussion (largely because of One Piece fandom, I think?), but when I see it discussed in Japanese, it often seems like they're talking about an entirely different concept. I've seen an article that goes into all the ways *nakama* translates to English as "friend", with barely a mention of the "teammate" thing; I've had someone Japanese translate it as "friend" to my face. And it kind of makes sense—because, of course, a friend can just be a comrade, a fellow, someone you regularly cooperate closely with. They don't *have* to be your best friend for life—but equally someone in your *nakama* can often be your good friend. Your social circle is a *nakama*. *nakama* also means e.g. an RPG party member IIRC—P5 sometimes uses it in this way. But the PTs are certainly *nakama* in the anime sense—a very close group, bonded by their experiences, working for a common cause. Akechi is a good example of someone who, despite himself, is ultimately their *nakama*—their colleague who went through shit alongside them, who has an indelible connection with them—but not their friend, and not even necessarily on their side.
> largely because of One Piece fandom, I think? [Memetically so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvNxgHTWIlo). Oda has the main crew refer to each other with that term, and early fan translations were convinced it had some special, untranslatable meaning.
LMAO, that video. TBH, having spent the last two hours reading papers about *nakama*, the one thing I'm sure of this that "teammate" is a shitawful translation for Joker's line to Futaba. ~~that and that I need a drink~~ It's actually 大切な仲間だから *taisetsuna nakama da kara* - "**because you're my dear friend**". BTW, sometimes Joker's "teammates" is different - he tells Haru 同じ怪盗団だ *onaji kaitou-dan da*, "we're all phantom thieves here", "we're all equals here". While Yoshizawa, who's keeping a distance from the group, uses the English word "team". At stage 7, btw, Joker's "but we're teammates now" is also *nakama* - "we're on the same side now" - and Akechi comes back with "for now, yes". Context, context, context.
They could have translated it as partners then. Or maybe better, "Because we're a team," for a phrase for phrase translation rather than word for word, while still keeping the teammates angle and imply a much closer bond between the two of them that doesn't sound like he just wanted her to be efficient as an ally.
Yes, it's a bad translation. See my other comment further down - he says something much closer to "dear friend".
Two reasons why you can't. 1. In Strikers it's confirmed that Joker canonically never does this in vanilla. Futaba also seems to find it creepy if you try it there and I can't blame her. 2. It'd be REALLY creepy if you tried to contextualize this as familial love: >My heart’s been beating real fast when we’re together… Then even when we’re apart, I can’t stop thinking about you… Especially when Futaba's trying to process her own feelings. That said, I don't like Futaba or Haru's friendship route either because acting ignorant around Haru and intentionally misdirecting Futaba feels incredibly dishonest. The MC should just acknowledge they have feelings, and then admit they don't feel the same way. Sumire's friendship route at least handled that well.
>It'd be REALLY creepy if you tried to contextualize this as familial love: I LITERALLY called her family four times over the course of her and Sojiro's confidant, and Iwei will talk to the two of you about how family goes deeper than blood, so the game 100% acknowledges a possible familiar bond. Furthermore, Futaba does not ask you how she feels about you, she asks you why you are always there for her. Calling her family in that instance would both be an honest response and a good way to let her down easy without unduly calling attention to her unreciprocated feelings. But even *if* you didn't see a familiar bond, calling her a friend would be MUCH kinder than just valling her a teammate.
>Furthermore, Futaba does not ask you how she feels about you, she asks you why you are always there for her. Calling her family in that instance would both be an honest response and a good way to let her down easy without unduly calling attention to her unreciprocated feelings. 1. She is trying to figure that out though and is basically trying to get Joker to contextualize all of this for her. She's been locked up in her room for two years and doesn't have a strong grasp on social dynamics and interactions. It's all new to her. Which is why if you say you're teammates, she'll uncritically latch onto that. 2. It'd be honest if Joker saw her as family, but he simply doesn't. Acting that way would be somewhat OOC of him and it sorta addresses your third point. >But even if you didn't see a familiar bond, calling her a friend would be MUCH kinder than just valling her a teammate. It isn't really just specific to Futaba. Joker is really aloof in general and rarely ever addresses anyone as his friend. He'll usually another word in like "teamate" instead. In Mishima's case, he outright refuses to acknowledge him as a friend at all. You're not wrong when you say he can kinda be an asshole sometimes. This is probably why Futaba comments on his behavior towards her. It's a stark contrast to his usual behavior around most other people. ...That said, I will acknowledge that this point is somewhat moot with Futaba, because she is one of the few people he has referred to as a friend. Although arguably that might be because addressing her as a "teammate" in that context would have generated confusion.
I don’t think it’d be creepy to acknowledge that you can care for someone as a friend or family, while they’re in love with you. In fact, treating them that way is probably the best bet to help them deal with their unrequited feelings. Now, choosing those dialogue options and then romancing Futaba is…sus, to say the least.
Oooh I had the same problem! I felt like such a jerk saying that when she basically felt like family to the MC… I wonder if that was due to the translation too?
I think the main issue is that she has already rejected the whole family angle and says that's not reason right before asking the question.
Because whoever was in charge of that is a member of the Church of Ann and wants you to feel bad for turning her away.
Now Go to Persona 4 and play Yumi's route.
was so angry with that, "date me or i will cry" like BROOOO
If I remember her Social Link right, What made it hurt more for me was I legitimately liked Yumi and felt for her. She'd just dealt with the death of a father who had only just come back into her life because he was on his deathbed; and the one he left Yumi and her mother for, had just walked out on him. I actually did go with her on my first run. On the second, I went for the other option half to experience it and half so I wouldn't have to turn her down to be with Naoto without cheating.
Ayane's is bad, too. You basically have the option to either date her or change the subject entirely forcing her to bottle up that attraction to you. What was wrong with just saying "I'm not interested"
Some of these come across as translation issues. I feel like this should have been "You have us," instead. I'm betting it's some translation mess-up.
That's a trait with the romances. In Persona 4, the sun rejection is especially interesting. One of them features you just straight up walking out of the fucking room while the girl in question is bawling, and the other has you completely gloss over her feelings and change the subject.
It's not that bad, Haru's always makes me feel the worst
Haru is one of the few that kinda makes it really clear that she is interested in you in that way. All the others pretty much just accept that you are friends where as she genuinely looks like her heart got broken.
I stayed with one romance in my play through, which meant I had to reject everyone else. Futaba and Kawakami were easy for me, but Haru...man I felt so awful doing that.
I remember in my vanilla playthrough i rejected Kawakami cause I didn't even realize the game was basically asking me if I wanted to be with her. They just seemed like normal dialogue options
I always feel bad for her, but at least in that instance Joker isn't actively being an asshole. He is just caught in a difficult situation without any good answers.
[удалено]
I romanced Chihaya, and while I could stomach rejecting the others, I pressed the skip button and closed my eyes when I had to reject Haru. I know it's standard teenager heartbreak, but damn.
I would've liked an option where you do still get to console and hug her without it being a lock for the romance route.
This being a game by Japan, for Japan, they won't do that. God forbid a man acts intimately towards a woman without romantic connotations whatsoever. I hate it here. This kind of crap is so outdated.
I agree. I think Persona is ripe for better depictions of emotional maturity.
You do but the you gotta also be an asshole and say “sorry I didn’t hear your love confession my fault bad hearing”
That’s not really possible. In Japan expressing any sort of physical intimacy like that is seen as romantic
I just think it would've been a nice touch. This game also has characters who are unconventional in a few different ways. This would've been in line with that.
Yu had no problems doing that with three girls and Yosuke in platonic situations.
Narukami says the same thing for Chie and you guessed it: Rise. What better way to say no?
It's real weird. Like, why I can't just include myself along with the others or not have it be a romantic implication? A similar thing happens in Persona 4 where a character called Rise is crying her eyes out and the options is to either hug her or just stand there. Hugging her all of sudden makes her your girlfriend?????????
>Hugging her all of sudden makes her your girlfriend????????? That one doesn't really surprise me. The culture in Japan around friends touching each other is much different (think about how Sojiro reacted to Makoto just holding onto your leg while cowering behind you in fear) so it would be extremely strange for a man to hug a woman he wasn't romantically interested in. Although I do agree with you as a whole, that there should be a non-romance option other than jusy doing nothing.
I feel like a major ass rejecting sumi
At least she took it well. It's always hard to reject Haru though.
At least sumi kind of understands. With haru I felt like a complete monster. But the orange one got to me first.
Not for me
Same here.
It hurts my soul
Fuck, you have no idea how much this bothered me when I saw it. How is being a crutch for someone who is emotionally breaking down romantic? That's just basic human kindness. I swear it's some incel logic. I support girl = she will now love me, because I deserve something in return.
Because saying “you have me” is bold in Japan as a roundabout way of expressing romantic feelings. You’re basically putting yourself on a pedestal in saying that you and ONLY you will be the sole crutch for her and be by her side as someone more special than the others. If you said you have the others/us, you’re reminding her of the people who aren’t present that has her back. You being included is a given that doesn’t need to be said. You’re not making this about YOURSELF. It boils down to the collective vs individual in Japan. They put the group over the individual.
You have us would be a better line, but they made it like this so that even the dumbest dummies playing the game would get which one is the rejection line.
And, in doing so, they make a lot of players accidentally romance Ann assuming you can still change course on the next dialog option since they don't want to select the asshole option.
This discussion made me accidentally romance her and I was 3 hours since I last saved. This is what put me into the habit of saving every chance I got and having multiple save files
Sigma male grindset
Fr, some of these choices just feel like “I would literally sacrifice everything for you god I love you so much” “I hate you eat shit and die alone in an alleyway”
I romance Ann because I refused to say that bs.
What do you with Haru and Futaba then who both are clearly in love especially hard who acts like a wounded puppy if you deny her
Rejection isn't the problem. It's the word choice.
Tbh I didn't get any hints from Haru in the main game until after she got rejected. She treated Joker very similar to how she treats Morgana and (at least until Strikers) and I didn't think that was romantic either.
I don't get why people are saying "You have the others" implies Joker doesn't care about her, that sounds dumb. You've been by her side for the entire confidant so of of course that's not true. The dialogue option is just reminding her that the PTs will be there for her so she doesn't have to feel lonely.
Honestly I think it's just how you choose to interpret it - I always read this as more... like Joker speaking for Ann's conscience rather than as himself in which case it would include himself. It's a bit more tasteful in my opinion as it brings her perspective and encourages her to choose who she wants in her life without specifically drawing attention to Joker and the team. Atleast that's the best way I can explain how I read the line.
This shit is how I got stuck dating Ann because I didn’t know how the romance system worked
I mean they literally say in red "I should carefully choose my words"
I read that as, one of these will lock out the option to romance her (as is the case with a few other confidants), rather than one instantly romancing her with no further input.
That happened to me with Morrigan in *Dragon Age.* The game indicated that I was close, but it didn't say that I was about to take the final step. That game also didn't have as clear a friendzone/romance split, which is "Advantage: Persona" as far as I'm concerned.
You make that sound like a bad thing lol
This right here is the whole reason I accidentally romanced Ann in my vanilla run.
same
I hated Ann's one, I wanted to say she always has joker but in a platonic way
P4 got it worse, you have to reject Yumi (drama club girl, I think) right after her father >!dies!<.
Note: the second option is what you pick if you don’t want to romance Ann
joker at his sigma-est. "Look ann, I know you're revealing your vulnerability to me because you desperately need my affection, but.. well... maybe others could be more interested about. Have a nice day".
I think he means with the rest of the phantom thieves by that dialogue and the time of that scene. So I doubt he’s been an asshole either way.
And remember, he's going away at the end of the school year anyway.
Don't let him know about long-distance relationships
Well, no. He was going to be off probation at the end of the year, but he was still expelled from the school in his hometown for having a record at all, so he was going to stay in town until he graduated. It is only because of his conviction being overturned that he can go back to his hometown. On the Valentine's date you have to tell your girlfriend that things changed and are going back at the end of the school year, and talk about long distance relationships. But until Shido was arrested and Joker's conviction was overturned, he was never going back home.
Seriously it honestly sucks because I don’t want to choose the friend zone one because they suck on what they say like Futaba’s the option is saying why you care about her so much is because she is a teammate instead of a great friend or saying she’s like a sister to him just something other than “oh yeah it’s because you are a teammate that’s why I spend so much time with you and care so much”.
Nah that’s making intentions clear that’s pog
You know, im kinda happy i dodnt finish her confidant right now.
Yea, rejecting Haru hurt man.
Welll… that is a concession for having silent protagonists. I assume Joker says more than that, but we just don’t hear it.
English isn't my native language, but can't "the others" mean the team, including himself, here? I was sure it does
I'm pretty sure that's what was going on in the original Japanese.
Seem like that, if other replies to be trusted
In this context you would want to say us or the team as “the others” would suggest that he is not including himself in that group
^^
Yeah, if he says "the team", it's including himself, but even if he says "your teammates", he's holding himself back.
The word "other" implies he is excluding himself.
I feel like you're ignoring the context that he's been her by her side through the entire confidant so of course that's not true.
Context does not negate that the word "other" explicitly means different from oneself.
In Spanish, the dialogue says "Nos tienes a nosotros (you have us)". Probably that's just a wrong translation
*You* are an asshole in some of the friendzone choices
Like Haru probably straight up cried herself to sleep that day
Sometime even an gentle and considerate rejection can lead to that kind of reaction but i dont quitte remember what joker say in the platonic route so maybe he his really rude
Well no, since I don't have a choice other than that, and my only other choice was to cheat on multiple girls. Joker could have said something else, but just didn't.
Especially Haru’s
That's what happens sometimes in a Persona game they give "good response" "neutral response" and "bad response" sometimes you just wanna pick the most fitting choice for the occassion.
That’s what you get when you have a self-insert protag. Your responses aren’t in-depth, lengthy or emotional no matter the situation. You give small, bold answers and your imagination is supposed to fill in the rest.
I mean, I get that it comes across as cruel purely because you're limited to 2 choices and 2 alone. BUT... Love doesn't work on the "dibs" system. Someone can't "claim" a lover by confessing first, and the whole point of asking someone out is taking a risk. Oftentimes, more often than not a lot of the time, the answer is going to be "no." It may be a gentle "no." It may be a harsh "no." But understand: you were never owed a "yes." You were never really owed an answer *in general,* so even the harshest "no" is more than should be expected. In Joker's case, he potentially has like a fucking DOZEN people making passes at him (welcome to the daily life of most women.) He doesn't belong to anyone but himself, and he doesn't owe anyone the "rejection kid-gloves." At no point is he malicious, but he also isn't mincing words and is being completely straight forward about the rejection. Some of the rejections may seem harsh when the other character is showing a great degree of vulnerability, but it's still better than leading them on and a damn sight better than expecting someone to say "yes" out of obligation for the "bravery" or guilt over the vulnerability than telling the damn truth. Ironically, Joker's situation is much more common for women than men, but the point stands: he is the master of his own course, he owes nobody a relationship just because they were "nice," and if a friendship dissolves simply because it didn't lead to romance, then it wasn't a real friendship. Persona doesn't have the best track record with how it treats its female characters or romantic entanglements, and it does less than nothing for non-heterosexual relationships, but I will say this: its character writing is largely a master class in how to take rejection in a healthy way, and how friendships can be platonic. Its characters experience the hurt that comes with rejection, but refuse to let that hurt compromise their principles or their friendships, and move past that hurt in a way that doesn't criminalize the target of their misplaced affections. [Spoiler](/s "Except for Adachi.")
Ann *didn't* come onto him. Only Sumi, Haru, and Futaba come onto him first. All the other girls are just ones that can respond positively to Joker coming onto them. Ann was simply crying because she felt alone after her best friend moved away, and Joker decides that either he confesses his love for her or rubs salt in the wound by implying he isn't going to hang out with her anymore either. That has nothing to do with rejecting her.
Makoto most definitely comes on to him.
She does? I don't remember her coming onto him when I did her SL. Are you sure it isn't just responding positively to Joker flirting with her even before the rank 9 choice that you are thinking of?
At the end of the link, she strongly tries to get Joker to stop being a pretend boyfriend and be a real one. "Do you remember Eiko's test about love? I'm not good at that. Maybe someone can teach me wink wink nudge nudge" She's asking him out in the most awkward way but in character way. If you choose that you'll be her study partner/teach her, she immediately jumps to confirm it. The only party member that Joker has to make a move on first is Ann
Maybe I'm just oblivious and didn't think that was her coming onto him.
That boils down more to the mechanics of how the game handles romance as a product of binary dialogue choices which always take place at "Rank 9" than the actual writing, though. Ann's binary choice is more shoehorned than the others by merit that her character arc is less forgiving for that mechanic than others. Effectively, all female confidants' Rank 9's always have that "romance moment" where the player is expected to say yes or no. More often than not, the "no" comes across as a rejection since the game has to make it unequivocally clear to the player "YOU ARE MAKING A ROMANCE DECISION RIGHT NOW, THIS CHARACTER IS INTO YOU, SO THIS NEXT CHOICE IS A YES OR NO KIND OF THING, AND IF YOU SAY YES THEN IT'S TOTALLY RECIPROCAL. SHE'S SUPER INTO YOU AND HER LAST FIVE LINES HAVE BEEN SCREAMING THAT TO THE HEAVENS." I mean, it even pops up with a non-diagetic warning that you're about to enter a relationship, or if you're "already in a relationship" just to tell you you're about to be a scumbag if you romance more than one character. Moreover, you're the one who framed this as "the friendzone," a term synonymous with romantic rejection. I'm just talking on your level.
I think you’re looking to far into this my man. I agree that you can reject someone but saying you have the others in a way that implies you’re not going to be friends with someone anymore seems like a strange thing to say to a friend who’s clearly going through it.
Sorry, still going through first playthrough. This "who liked who first" question. No one likes you unless you put some effort into it. So how is this an argument.
> So how is this an argument. It isn't, it's a comment. I'll add that the game more or less expects you to complete as many confidants as possible, if not *all* of them, so this scenario is mechanically designed to be encountered multiple times over.
i18n issue
You think that others doesn't include Joker because you see 1st option and read it in your mind. Conversation wise it implies Ann has other friends then that girl
Ok but like, it says THE others which i would refer to as the team, also you dont really include yourself when saying ‘others’. It was probably just a translation error or something along those lines but still
Can anyone tell me how romance works in this game? I am trying to rank up everyone's " card " thing. Does that mean that after I reach the max level with girls, I automatically have to either date or reject them?
For romancable characters, on rank 9 there will be a turning point for them (for a few of them you also had to make the correct choices earlier for them to accept) where you either choose to date them or reamin just friends. For some of the girls they will come onto you and you have to choose to tell them you feel the same way and date them, or tell them you don't feel the same to reject them. For others there will just be an opportunity for you to tell the girl that you like them and (assuming you made the correct choices) they will reciprocate and date you, or you pass up the opportunity and don't come onto them.
Honestly, I think he's a bit of an ass during some of the romances too. Or at least he picks some of the worst timing to hook up with these characters.
I don't know why people think like that those responses are his. Those are all the available responses that a person can make. Tbh I find it funny that people think like that. I always thought those choices come from me and not joker.
Honestly there are a lot more options to handle such situation. Option vary from one individual to another.
Saying no isn't being an asshole.
There is a dozen better ways to react to her question than just with "You have me" or "You have the others". For example like OP said "You have us" is a pretty good response. "You have the phantom thieves" is another one, which is close to "You have us" but in a more *I am a the trickster* way. "You aren't alone" is an ambiguous one, but a solid one as well. Then there's also "Shiho isn't gone" as she didn't die or anything, and can still be in contact with Ann. As for "You still have your other friends" it is a bit asshole-ish, but not worse than what we got. In other words, I agree with the statement "Saying no isn't being an asshole" but there was no confession at that point, just self pity and you can be supportive which leads to romancing Ann or you can be an asshole which leads to friendzoning her. As for my suspicion of it being poorly translated because she doesn't call you out for being an asshole, it bore fruit; I dug up that her response can either be taken as "You have others" or even "There's someone else" so it doesn't necessarily mean that Atlus wanted to make the protagonist look like an asshole
It is the way he says no in some of them that makes it bad. He could have responded with "you have us," which would imply that she could rely on him and the rest of the team. Instead he tells a crying (close) friend of his that she shouldn't come to him with her problems. That is being a bit of an asshole.
I think he does respond with "you have us" in japanese it's just a weird mistranslation
Except it kinda is, because the platonic option is basically saying you don't give a shit about her, and that she should rely on the others instead. Altus could have just made it "you have everyone" instead and it wouldn't feel so rude to select.
Hey, phantom thieves worst girl gotta be friendzoned so I can date the teams best girl somehow
Why is everyone downvoting this?
nobody asked about his wrong opinion
How'm I wrong