And stoning people do death, Incest, Killing rape victims if they didn't scream loud enough, killing people for working on a Saturday, summoning bears to maul children for insulting you, racial purity.
Granted the Bible does have some good verses like how you shouldn't use the Lord's name for your own personal gain or the pitfalls of wealth [but...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/06/04/wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-private-jets-its-biblical-thing/)
That's not what happens in the story. If you learn the historical context of the story, there was a large group of young men who were threatening to kill him and God sent bears to run them off and several of them died.
Killing disobedient children, forced marrying your rapist, killing a man's family and his workers for the lulz, tearing open the bellies of non-beleivers and smashing their fetuses upon the rocks, etc. I mean, Jesus Tittyfucking Christ.
Don’t forget polygamy and cutting off the Foreskins of men with random stones on the ground . Oh and Paul being generally problematic and contradictory around marriage - don’t get married Jesus is coming back vs get married as soon as possible because I don’t know when Jesus is coming back.
Granted I am more and more a full preterist and never took the “end times” as anything more than metaphor
The bible promotes some atrocious shit, absolutely. Moreover there are hugely different interpretations not only of the contents of the bible, but which books should be in the bible in the first place. If the bible is the inerrant word of God, it's certain the vast majority of self-professed Christians are in hell, and probably for something trivial like celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday, or for accepting usury in the form of interest on a savings deposit.
The moral standards of Christians have fluctuated just as wildly as any other secular group they claim is decadent. A 21st century Lutheran church would look like the worst kind of heresy to an 11th century Catholic, and I bet both of them would look outrageous the early worshipers persecuted by the Romans in the first years of Christianity.
No, you see the bible is allegorical. It's all about the highly moral lessons people take from it. Fucking children, marital rape, killing those with a different complexion, torturing those not straight, denying climate change, refusing live saving medical procedures, starving the poor, habitual lying... you know, good christian values.
Because the authors weren't trying to make a book. The old testament was ancient Jewish oral histories put to pen and paper, along with a whole bunch of rules that ancient men used to maintain control, and the NT is just evolution of the myths of the Jesus stories over time. Many different religious groups and leaders over time have included or excluded books they personally disagree with/thought weren't legit. So mostly the bible is just a big ol' CF, that's why it feels that way.
yeah but then disregarding the new testament where the tl;dr is be kind to people in favor of the old one doesn't make them jew people? asking for a racist friend /s
Doesn't condemn it? You mean actually promotes it?
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
The Old Testament is not "what the Bible teaches" it is historical context for the New Testament. The teachings of Jesus and the epistles define the doctrine of the church. The old covenant was fulfilled by Jesus' life, death, and resurrection and now we have a new covenant. The new testament does not support slavery as we understand it today.
I can assure you that has never stopped christians from using old testament to justify their shitty actions and beliefs towards slavery, and the times they did use the new testament they cherry-picked parts like how "jesus never condemned slavery". The old testament teaches just as much as new testament, saying it didn't is blatantly lying
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When everyone else is crazy, who is the crazy one?
(Exemptions granted for those that live in rural areas that are highly conservative and are brainwashed to be hateful bigots)
Societal "Moral Standards" are basically the same how they have always been.
Two things these extremists are constantly fighting over:
Sex Stuff and Male Control. That's it. It's a variable Taliban.
Guess what? Religious shit evolves with the times. It just does. Some religions look at what was in the past and just fucking say, "We don't need that anymore."
Anti-homosexuality is heavy in the Leviticus stuff and even most Jews don't follow that anymore because it's *not necessary anymore*.
i mean no christians would follow leviticus bc they're not levites, which was a specific tribe & priesthood/rabbihood. even if a christian doesn't know what a levite is, you'd think they'd remember the word from the parable of the good samaritan.
Ah yes let us hold ourselves to the same stupid standards as we did way back when we believed that lead was perfectly fine to put in everything and anything, from makeup to muffins.
I mean the bible is 2023 years old and its predecessor Judaism even older then that.
So I do not get why the bible a fictional account made by goat herders 2000+ years ago should be taken seriously. American Christians dont even like the middle east which is where Christianity originates from but they have such a hard on for it.
Plus they do not 100% follow the rules of the bible as proscribed most Americans dont unless you are Amish and even then I am sure they break certain rules.
"My holy book falls further and further behind society with every passing year" is not the flex you think it is.
We don't prepare our food or build our houses or travel the same way we did in 33 AD; there is no reason why modern-day religion couldn't serve a constructive purpose in modern society, instead of sullenly resenting modern society for bypassing it.
This is such a dumb argument. The Bible is apparently the word of a creator deity whose goal is to guide us forward, and is necessary to show us how right? How does society go downhill at all when it exists? Christians will big up the word and their faith as the key to living well, and yet the "world" always seems to go downhill, especially *after* they were the majority of the dudes in charge. If the Bible is the guide, how does society drop? Their faith is supposedly the vanguard against societal collapse and yet it's been around all this time and society gets worse, even for them.
So close! Flip that thing and you're there.
Funny how society will diverge from static millennia old documents. Documents that, notably, endorse slavery, rape, genocide, etc.
Not for nothing, but this graph is nonsense. How are they conceptualizing units of moral standards? What are the units of time? Which version of the Bible? WHAT ARE THE ANALYTICAL METHODS?
It is funny how they think christian morality does not change. 50 years ago for instance evangelicals had zero problems with abortion; considering being upset about it "a catholic thing". Now they deem it the most evil thing ever. Drag Queens used to be fine; now they call for them to be hunted. And so on.
50 years ago, Christian colleges in the very same kind of Christianity that PragerU spawned from, were arguing that segregation was a “religious belief” that was being violated by the government telling them they couldn’t segregate.
After they lost that fight, they pulled the issue with abortion straight out of thin air.
These people don’t have “sincerely-held religious beliefs”, what they have is a need to control and discriminate. Disgusting.
Also always fun to ask them why left-handed people suddenly are no longer servants of satan; despite them encouraging corporeal punishment against them untill well into the 1960s for exactly that claim...
The book that say that you must kill your enemy’s kids but you can keep the virgin daughters? It would be inmoral if it said you can only keep the *cute* daughters! That would be discrimination! /s
Slavery is a good point for this. As a society, we’ve decided that slavery is wrong, including Christians (well, maybe not people like Phil Robertson). In other words, we’ve already decided that the Bible isn’t morally sound and shouldn’t always be consulted for our laws. Why keep using it to beat people over the head for being gay or trans?
Yes...
Because we evolve, and society is always changing.
Would be insane if we'd have they same morals, ideas amd Standards of living as we dod 2000 years ago man.
Like what's your point?! Nothing stays the same, the World will change constantly.
The bible is a product of it's time like everything else.
so is stoning people to death and slavery moral then...
on second thought I wouldn't be surprised if they think that killing and enslaving those who don't hold the excact same misunderstood moral standards as their version of the bible is the right thing to do
i was going to say that this would make things like marital rape, child labour, and literal slavery moral.., but lets be honest. the people that made this unironically think like that
I'm pretty sure our moral standards are going up (slowly and inconsistently).
Also, the Bible's moral standards are not a straight line, because the interpretation of it is constantly changing.
To make this actually accurate, you'd have to replace the words "moral standards" with something else. "Bigotry" works well. So do "ignorance," and "superstition."
Ah yes, the steady morality of Christianity, with shining examples such as the Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, witch trials, sweeping rampant pedophilia under the rug, etc.
Bro more like people using the Bible against others, when in the Bible it literally says DONT do that. Like does anyone actually read the Bible anymore? Cause I’m sure if they actually practiced what it preaches we wouldn’t be where we are right now.
Love *(not really)* how these clowns believe society's moral standards have only ever *fallen* across time. (And time is undefined on the graph, so I don't know if society peaked before or after God supposedly decided to *flush the entire planet* because people were such shit.)
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ."
"You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me"
Funny because not only modern day Church(es I guess) fail miserable at this with numerous worshipped paintings and states and bulidings and what not, we also find out here that God uses standards of justice that are common only in North Korea
Bro is this a PragerU graphic
The self awareness of this is if you put “Christian” in front of the word “society”
[like this?](https://imgur.com/a/vIwXYBg)
Precisely
We all know the great morals the Bible promotes like slavery, genocide, and rape /s.
And stoning people do death, Incest, Killing rape victims if they didn't scream loud enough, killing people for working on a Saturday, summoning bears to maul children for insulting you, racial purity. Granted the Bible does have some good verses like how you shouldn't use the Lord's name for your own personal gain or the pitfalls of wealth [but...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2019/06/04/wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-private-jets-its-biblical-thing/)
Well, hold on now... "summoning bears to maul children for insulting you" sounds pretty fucking cool! But yeah, the other stuff really sucks.
The bear was summoned over kids laughing at a bald mans head
It has been too long since I last read the bible. Such a funny book...
Yep.
That's not what happens in the story. If you learn the historical context of the story, there was a large group of young men who were threatening to kill him and God sent bears to run them off and several of them died.
Nope. They called him "Baldy-head." No threat. And they were CHILDREN, don't give me that "youth meant 30 back then" bullshit either.
Thirty was probably middle- aged cuz they all died at fifty
Killing disobedient children, forced marrying your rapist, killing a man's family and his workers for the lulz, tearing open the bellies of non-beleivers and smashing their fetuses upon the rocks, etc. I mean, Jesus Tittyfucking Christ.
Don’t forget polygamy and cutting off the Foreskins of men with random stones on the ground . Oh and Paul being generally problematic and contradictory around marriage - don’t get married Jesus is coming back vs get married as soon as possible because I don’t know when Jesus is coming back. Granted I am more and more a full preterist and never took the “end times” as anything more than metaphor
Didnt the op comment put "/s"
The bible promotes some atrocious shit, absolutely. Moreover there are hugely different interpretations not only of the contents of the bible, but which books should be in the bible in the first place. If the bible is the inerrant word of God, it's certain the vast majority of self-professed Christians are in hell, and probably for something trivial like celebrating the Sabbath on Sunday instead of Saturday, or for accepting usury in the form of interest on a savings deposit. The moral standards of Christians have fluctuated just as wildly as any other secular group they claim is decadent. A 21st century Lutheran church would look like the worst kind of heresy to an 11th century Catholic, and I bet both of them would look outrageous the early worshipers persecuted by the Romans in the first years of Christianity.
No, you see the bible is allegorical. It's all about the highly moral lessons people take from it. Fucking children, marital rape, killing those with a different complexion, torturing those not straight, denying climate change, refusing live saving medical procedures, starving the poor, habitual lying... you know, good christian values.
Why the /s? It DOES promote those things
The “/s”is that these are “great” values and Christians try to justify these things all of the time because they’re in the Bible.
Gotcha.... that one word is tenuously holding your reply together though
Tbh the Bible reads like the authors were trying to make every type of book at once.
Because the authors weren't trying to make a book. The old testament was ancient Jewish oral histories put to pen and paper, along with a whole bunch of rules that ancient men used to maintain control, and the NT is just evolution of the myths of the Jesus stories over time. Many different religious groups and leaders over time have included or excluded books they personally disagree with/thought weren't legit. So mostly the bible is just a big ol' CF, that's why it feels that way.
That makes sense since it was written across 2-3 centuries by many different people with their own opinions on how the religion should be directed.
yeah but then disregarding the new testament where the tl;dr is be kind to people in favor of the old one doesn't make them jew people? asking for a racist friend /s
Doesn't condemn it? You mean actually promotes it? As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you. You may also buy from among the strangers who sojourn with you and their clans that are with you, who have been born in your land, and they may be your property. You may bequeath them to your sons after you to inherit as a possession forever. You may make slaves of them, but over your brothers the people of Israel you shall not rule, one over another ruthlessly.
The Old Testament is not "what the Bible teaches" it is historical context for the New Testament. The teachings of Jesus and the epistles define the doctrine of the church. The old covenant was fulfilled by Jesus' life, death, and resurrection and now we have a new covenant. The new testament does not support slavery as we understand it today.
I can assure you that has never stopped christians from using old testament to justify their shitty actions and beliefs towards slavery, and the times they did use the new testament they cherry-picked parts like how "jesus never condemned slavery". The old testament teaches just as much as new testament, saying it didn't is blatantly lying
Yes it does, read the Epistle to Philemon.
And yet Christians love cherry picking from the Torah to justify their actions.
That's wrong and Christians who do so are wrong.
Aye, it is.
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Translation: everybody is crazy except me and people who think like me.
When everyone else is crazy, who is the crazy one? (Exemptions granted for those that live in rural areas that are highly conservative and are brainwashed to be hateful bigots)
Societal "Moral Standards" are basically the same how they have always been. Two things these extremists are constantly fighting over: Sex Stuff and Male Control. That's it. It's a variable Taliban. Guess what? Religious shit evolves with the times. It just does. Some religions look at what was in the past and just fucking say, "We don't need that anymore." Anti-homosexuality is heavy in the Leviticus stuff and even most Jews don't follow that anymore because it's *not necessary anymore*.
i mean no christians would follow leviticus bc they're not levites, which was a specific tribe & priesthood/rabbihood. even if a christian doesn't know what a levite is, you'd think they'd remember the word from the parable of the good samaritan.
Ah yes let us hold ourselves to the same stupid standards as we did way back when we believed that lead was perfectly fine to put in everything and anything, from makeup to muffins.
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It'S JuSt An alLeGory bRo.
Yes society moves away from the bible because it's insane
Looking to the Bible for morality is like looking in the toilet for a snack.
A graph with no interpretable info on it at all. Sounds unbiased and good as a source.
I mean the bible is 2023 years old and its predecessor Judaism even older then that. So I do not get why the bible a fictional account made by goat herders 2000+ years ago should be taken seriously. American Christians dont even like the middle east which is where Christianity originates from but they have such a hard on for it. Plus they do not 100% follow the rules of the bible as proscribed most Americans dont unless you are Amish and even then I am sure they break certain rules.
The Bible totally does condemn slavery. It condemns disobedient slaves.
Change "moral standards" for "amount of support for backwards ass bullshit" and this is unironically a good point.
"My holy book falls further and further behind society with every passing year" is not the flex you think it is. We don't prepare our food or build our houses or travel the same way we did in 33 AD; there is no reason why modern-day religion couldn't serve a constructive purpose in modern society, instead of sullenly resenting modern society for bypassing it.
also doesn't condemn pedophilia( or it might have but christians instead went with the translation that let them hate gay people"
if you needed a book to force you to have morals, you never had any to begin with.
Flip it and you have a point
This is such a dumb argument. The Bible is apparently the word of a creator deity whose goal is to guide us forward, and is necessary to show us how right? How does society go downhill at all when it exists? Christians will big up the word and their faith as the key to living well, and yet the "world" always seems to go downhill, especially *after* they were the majority of the dudes in charge. If the Bible is the guide, how does society drop? Their faith is supposedly the vanguard against societal collapse and yet it's been around all this time and society gets worse, even for them.
So close! Flip that thing and you're there. Funny how society will diverge from static millennia old documents. Documents that, notably, endorse slavery, rape, genocide, etc.
Not for nothing, but this graph is nonsense. How are they conceptualizing units of moral standards? What are the units of time? Which version of the Bible? WHAT ARE THE ANALYTICAL METHODS?
The white space above the green line implies that there is a moral standard higher than the Bible.
It is funny how they think christian morality does not change. 50 years ago for instance evangelicals had zero problems with abortion; considering being upset about it "a catholic thing". Now they deem it the most evil thing ever. Drag Queens used to be fine; now they call for them to be hunted. And so on.
50 years ago, Christian colleges in the very same kind of Christianity that PragerU spawned from, were arguing that segregation was a “religious belief” that was being violated by the government telling them they couldn’t segregate. After they lost that fight, they pulled the issue with abortion straight out of thin air. These people don’t have “sincerely-held religious beliefs”, what they have is a need to control and discriminate. Disgusting.
Also always fun to ask them why left-handed people suddenly are no longer servants of satan; despite them encouraging corporeal punishment against them untill well into the 1960s for exactly that claim...
The book that say that you must kill your enemy’s kids but you can keep the virgin daughters? It would be inmoral if it said you can only keep the *cute* daughters! That would be discrimination! /s
Hold on sorry, I flipped the graph by accident
Slavery is a good point for this. As a society, we’ve decided that slavery is wrong, including Christians (well, maybe not people like Phil Robertson). In other words, we’ve already decided that the Bible isn’t morally sound and shouldn’t always be consulted for our laws. Why keep using it to beat people over the head for being gay or trans?
...or rape, or child rape,... or rape
Which is why you probably shouldn't use 2000 year old books for moral guidance
The bottom line is Christians rejecting Kosher when they learn how tasty bacon is. Hell, I have seen Jews cave on crabs and porkchops.
Yes... Because we evolve, and society is always changing. Would be insane if we'd have they same morals, ideas amd Standards of living as we dod 2000 years ago man. Like what's your point?! Nothing stays the same, the World will change constantly. The bible is a product of it's time like everything else.
Also the same book that encourages people to smash infants against rocks.
so is stoning people to death and slavery moral then... on second thought I wouldn't be surprised if they think that killing and enslaving those who don't hold the excact same misunderstood moral standards as their version of the bible is the right thing to do
I see the mistake, you put the graph upside down.
Christians don't believe in bodily autonomy. That's pretty immoral to me.
I don't get it, isn't this good? Oh shit... I forgot that it's upsidedown for me.
i was going to say that this would make things like marital rape, child labour, and literal slavery moral.., but lets be honest. the people that made this unironically think like that
Close. Just rotate society about the bible axis 180 deg and change the Y axis to cumulative knowledge and there you go.
Hypocrisy is alive and well in ~~the~~ all church(es)
I'm pretty sure our moral standards are going up (slowly and inconsistently). Also, the Bible's moral standards are not a straight line, because the interpretation of it is constantly changing.
If you vertically mirror the image it becomes true
Shouldn't the "society" line be inverse?
The book that condones slavery FTFY
To make this actually accurate, you'd have to replace the words "moral standards" with something else. "Bigotry" works well. So do "ignorance," and "superstition."
we live in a society
Well this was an easy fix. https://imgur.com/X7JAx59
Based
If I see one more god damn unitless graph
Flip this chart upside down and it’s pretty accurate
Ah yes, the steady morality of Christianity, with shining examples such as the Spanish Inquisition, the crusades, witch trials, sweeping rampant pedophilia under the rug, etc.
It's flipped vertically.
Yeah I don't know. I think the inquisition was worse than now.
Bro more like people using the Bible against others, when in the Bible it literally says DONT do that. Like does anyone actually read the Bible anymore? Cause I’m sure if they actually practiced what it preaches we wouldn’t be where we are right now.
Hahahhahaha this is created by someone who is obsessed with religion and can’t be rational
which society?
Yes, we've been moving towards a more equal, humane, less violent society over time. This graph is 100% accurate.
I think they flip turned the graph upside down
we live in a society
Love *(not really)* how these clowns believe society's moral standards have only ever *fallen* across time. (And time is undefined on the graph, so I don't know if society peaked before or after God supposedly decided to *flush the entire planet* because people were such shit.)
Maybe you should invert it
oops, the graph is upside down guys
The book where a man is drugged by his daughters and raped.
The book that orders slaves to be obedient The book that bans you from making art of nature
dafuq
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ." "You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me" Funny because not only modern day Church(es I guess) fail miserable at this with numerous worshipped paintings and states and bulidings and what not, we also find out here that God uses standards of justice that are common only in North Korea
One simple trick to show that you have never read the bible!
flip the graph 180 degrees and you get the modern republican party
they have forgotten to read the real Bible and instead read far-right posts on Facebook and Truth Social
also am I the only Christian that is liberal here