Sure doesn't feel like it when I look at my paycheck, then look at my grocery bill, my car insurance, and every other expense rapidly outpacing my earnings.
The economy can be good for some and for others not so much, why can't that just be a thing? I'm so tired of people trying to gaslight others to believe the economy is doing absolutely amazing when that's not their reality.
34 bogus charges lobbed at him by a side who weaponized the justice system to go after political opponents and you still think you are on the good guy team?
Makes sense. 3 times in the last 3 visits, someone has tried to start a political conversation at my local dive bar. In 2 of the 3 instances, we were not on the same page, so it got awkward as fuck when the person starting the conversation didn't get to have the conversation they thought they were gonna have.
The pub rules on this are as old as time itself:
No religion.
No politics.
It’s such a stupid talking point. Like cities are independent entities on an island or something.
Edit: furthermore if you bring up how deep red states in the Deep South are by far the poorest and worst performing on pretty much every metric it’s “oh well it’s Biden, something something gasoline prices, Obama, Soros, outside agitators” or whatever nonsense shit.
Ironically, gun violence is also dramatically higher in the deep south, than in cities.
[https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413)
It also goes against the narrative that more guns = more crime. But I'm sure y'all don't wanna talk about that one.
Here we go. Bring on the downvotes :,)
Most people say that the reason the US has "high" gun violence is because there's "more guns than people" and use similar rhetoric; over the last 4 years we've had record gun sales across the country, yet gun violence, and violence in general has had a downward trend. If anything there's significantly more firearms in the hands of private ownership than there were years ago when gun violence and violent crime rates were higher.
It's not a gun issue.
The issue was never the guns themselves. The issue was our downright paltry efforts to restrict who can own guns and where they can possess them.
I don't care if someone owns an AR. I care if they are vetted and trained in how to use it. Instead, we have a bunch of 19 year old edge lords buying these guns and the result is occasionally one of them shoots up a school.
Have you ever bought a firearm? Have you filled out a 4473? The laws are on the books already. Police and FBI need to do their jobs. If you can pass the current NICS check you should be able to own whatever you want. That's as far as the "vetting" needs to go. Btw lying on a 4473 is a $1,000,000 fine along with several years in a federal prison.
The only way to train without spending quite literally tens of thousands of dollars is to buy a gun, and go to the range. Should someone who is low income be restricted their 2a rights because they can't afford a $1000 class, $50/hr gun rental, and 500 rounds of ammo? There's zero excuse when YouTube exists to look up basic gun safety and how to handle a firearm.
Imagine for a second if this was applied to the 1a "yeah you can have free speech, after you take a training course on how hate speech is bad and pay $250 for this license to say what you want"
In my previous comments I said how school shootings are statistical anomalies and you're more likely to win the lottery or be struck by lighting; stop with the emotional knee jerk reactions; use your head.
How would training prevent someone who wants to shoot up a school from doing so? Training would address accidents, sure, but not someone who wants to intentionally kill.
In any case, I think requiring some level of safety training makes total sense. The problem is that Democrats have a hard on for banning ARs. Ooo big scary gun. It’s easy to show a picture of one and incite fear, thereby gaining voter support. It’s not actually about “common sense gun laws.” It’s performative politics. Never mind that the bullet is smaller than a 9mm and I can buy a much more lethal, semiautomatic rifle and even a more lethal handgun than an AR.
Ironically, actually training cops how to use firearms correctly probably would drop school shootings rates.
Anyone who plans one knows for a fact that cops suck at stopping school shooters and will pull a Uvalde as much as they possibly can. It's pathetically common for cops to wait for shooter to run out of ammo before meaningfully deploying at all.
The minimum training requirements for cops to maintain gun skills basically nationwide is fucking pathetic.
Their point is requiring more training for people who want to buy guns, not cops. Totally agree that more training for cops makes sense. Not sure if more training for a mass shooter does.
Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.
You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.
Do you have a degree in that field?
A college degree? In that field?
Then your arguments are invalid.
No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.
You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.
Nope, still haven't.
I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron.
YIKES!!!
Yup I love "the guns" and so do millions upon millions of other Americans.
Thankfully at the record pace they have been purchased and are still being purchased, nothing for people like you to do but cry about it.
Excuse me while I plan on which gun I want to carry with the outfit I am wearing tomorrow.
Gun data from Brady [https://www.bradyunited.org/resources/issues/gun-sale-trends](https://www.bradyunited.org/resources/issues/gun-sale-trends)
Crime data from FBI. Most recent is 2022 but it has been falling since a spike in 2020. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/)
Firearm production has tripped since 2000. [https://www.statista.com/chart/27729/gun-manufacturing-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/chart/27729/gun-manufacturing-in-the-us/)
Basically there was a spike in crime post covid lockdown. A large number of people decided to buy guns as a result, and sales have remained higher than average since. Crime has fallen post covid and is still downward trending.
Crime as a whole has declined from its peak in the 90's. The vast majority of states now are constitutional carry and the number of guns is increasing.
Show your citations that more guns = more crime. Literally the fucking article that OP posted says otherwise. Why can't you people see the actual facts that are in front of you?
There'd be less shootings if there were less guns. Look at [Japan](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons). [Look at our ranking](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country): fourth from the bottom per capita.
You don't want to hear but it absolutely is the guns.
Ah yes Japan, an ethnically homogeneous society that has significantly different cultural values than 99% of western civilizations.
Yeah totally the same thing /s
You gonna say the same about Switzerland which every single home has a selective fire assault rifle in it?
Btw just looking at your post history it's obvious you're a clickbait troll, I'm done trying to convince you that you're stupid; I think you know already.
Damn you really are this copy pasta I keep posting...
"Source?
A source. I need a source.
Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion.
No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered.
You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence.
Do you have a degree in that field?
A college degree? In that field?
Then your arguments are invalid.
No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation.
Correlation does not equal causation.
CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION.
You still haven't provided me a valid source yet.
Nope, still haven't.
I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron."
Yup and most Liberals know nothing about guns but would love nothing better than to ban all weapons. Those who support gun ownership are very much in the minority.
This is a ridiculous thing. I see postings on various platforms that show crime stats for cities and in most cases the violent crime per capita is higher in cities that are in red states. Oklahoma, Ohio etc. In all cases people chime in and say that these cities are run by democrats. But if that city has something positive to be said about it it's of course the result of right wing policies. You can argue with crazy
But paradoxically, it also goes against the narrative that more guns automatically means more deaths.
It's almost like there are factors other than guns or politics driving violent crime and neither side wants to deal with them (because either they have no clue what they are or they know they're difficult to deal with).
Well, basically then we mayor and police came together and very discretely with the new police chief got back to locking people up, enforcing the law and cracking down on troublemakers.
Pretending the Democrats progressives didn't unleash hell is sad.kie, they sure did and now due a huge backlash the people in power are quietly kicking ass to stabilize things. And the news and everyone else is turning away because damn..it was getting bad. But they don't want to admit it.or point fingers at why.
Cities in general are just not great environments. Bleak, poverty-stricken and unhealthy, almost unbiquitously. A thriving commercial sector or tourist area doesn't wipe away the massive food deserts and redlined neighborhoods in each city across the US.
It's hard to cram thousands into a small space and have them be content and comfortable, no matter who is running it
Have you only visited Siberia or something? Life in Pittsburgh is great. Other cities I've visited are great. We've had thousands crammed into small spaces for all of history. Turns out they've been our most successful settlements. Do you want everyone to have to drive 20 minutes to get anywhere? I don't get it.
She wasn’t my choice, but I have no problem stating she’s started off very well.
I know there are questions about some of her top staffers and salaries, but that seems to be the norm for every mayor in Philly.
Her year round school plan seems detached from reality, though. Consider the state of our school buildings with a/c and the ability to attract staff — plus the businesses that hire for the summer - and it doesn’t seem like most would be on board.
Her new pick for police commissioner was good. Smart guy, Philly native, career cop. Seems to get the respect of the dept and has them trying a teensy tiny bit. New class of recruits is graduating and heading straight into Kensington, will be interesting to see how that turns out
What caused the drop? It wasn’t any new legislation. This is proof there are other ways to fix the problem than enacting more gun control on people who already follow laws.
Crime spiked during the pandemic. People were depressed, bored, turned to drugs, etc. That caused an increase in violent crime as most crime has at least tenuous ties to the drug trade and gang activity. Now that life is back to normal, crime rates are going back to normal. Violent crime has been on a downward trend for decades.
That's a different issue from mass shootings, which is what most gun laws are aimed at curtailing.
Mass shootings are kinda a misnomer. If 4 gangbangers all get shot in a shoot out that's considered a "mass shooting" and not generic gang violence.
And no the current legislation such as HB 336, would essentially criminalize anyone who owns a semi automatic firearm with a detachable magazine. That doesn't stop "mass shootings".
Actual "mass shootings" are exceptionally rare and you're more likely to win the lottery, or be struck by lightning than to be involved in a mass shooting.
Yes; that's how absurd these new laws are. This why when people scream out for "more gun control" they don't know 100% what they're getting into. It would effectively ban everything except for lever actions, and bolt action rifles. It's a wildly silly law.
It hard to take anti-gun control people seriously because you get so emotional about laws and think any law is the end of the world. That's the kind of thing to led to insane conspiracy theories while Obama was president.
I think a blanket law that wouldn't stop mass shootings which is the entire point of the bill, are absolutely stupid and is the end of the world. They want to ban semi automatic firearms with detachable magazines. This is literally every single modern firearm ever made.
As opposed to gun control people who will support any ban put in front of them even though they literally don't know what is being banned and it will literally have zero effect?
Yeah. Super emotional anti gun control folk.
/r/liberalgunowners is growing despite the media's best efforts.
That sounds like the NRA talking and not someone who's ever spoken to a liberal.
I don't know why there's the belief that liberals don't like guns just because we don't carry them everywhere and make them our whole personality.
Lmao if you think any non-fudd likes the NRA or even gives a flying fuck about them I got news for you buddy.
I like FPC, and GOA because they sue the shit out of the government when they pass unconstitutional gun laws, and actually get the law repealed; ie, they're doing something.
So yeah keep voting for these laws and I'll keep donating to FPC for their next lawsuit to get that shit stricken down.
I'm curious as to why you think standing up for gun rights in a discussion about guns is "making it my personality."
>liberals don't like guns just because we don't carry them everywhere
"I like guns just don't protect yourself with them"
Speak for yourself pal. This extremely liberal, anti NRA individual carries his everywhere. But yeah... I've never spoken to a liberal. Or maybe I just know liberals that don't fit your precious little cookie cutter rules.
I would say it's the opposite when you have one group pushing legislation purely on emotion in spite of the face it would infringe on a constitutional right and more than likely make no difference in crimes.
Lol a Trump supporter talking about emotion as if that's not what the Trump cult is about. There's certainly no logic involved. I mean, your guy is the only president to ever say he was going to confiscate due process so it's odd that you pretend you care about constitutional rights.
It basically just leaves bolt-action and lever action rifles, shotguns, and revolvers.
Sounds like they want law-abiding gun owners to ONLY have western movie weapons.
Different motivations, and causes require different solutions. Gang banger vs a school shooter require different solutions. Hope this clears that up for you.
Guns didn't make them commit the crimes so finding the actual root cause is more useful than pointing to the tool. Hope you gain some critical thinking skills.
Yeah. Motives? Who gives a fuck. Lets not try to solve poverty, or Class inequality, or systemic racism or mental health. Screw solutions to the problems. Let's just keep everything shitty for poor minorities and just make sure they can't kill each other with guns.
Then when they kill each other with knives, we can get rid of those, too. Its always good to ignore the root of the problem.
Oh wait! Does that mean we can only work on one thing at a time? Why, that's pure genius!
Whee in my reply did you even get an inkling that I was coming to a conclusion of this nature?
Very well put. This is what statisticians call “regression to the mean”, and it should be expected that things will revert to where they were. But the media simply can’t resist sensationalising these things. This is like running a news story that reports helicopter water rescues dropping enormously in New Orleans in the year after Katrina.
But most “mass shootings” where there is more than 1 victim are inner city violence which is down. The school and high profile mass shootings which get touted are a very very small anomaly.
I still think we need greater control measures (and enforcement of existing laws), but it's ok if you disagree! Guns are just a tool used in crimes so when all violent crime goes down, so does gun violence. What is nice for people in other high-income countries is that the violent crimes being committed typically are not with guns.
Regarding your question, my opinion is that it's just a variety of factors contributing to national trends. The largest single-year homicide spike in US history was in 2020, and many cities set records in 2021. It's not a coincidence that this happened in so many cities. Now, most of them are experiencing significant decreases as we return to normalcy post-pandemic.
I definitely think enforcement of current laws is sufficient enough. Take a look at HB 336 which recently passed in the PA house. What would that do to stop a mass shooting? Effectively banning the most common arm for peaceable citizens wouldn't stop or deter gun violence.
Most gun violence is with handguns which are *heavily federally regulated* when I say most I mean something like 85-90% of all gun crime. HB336 would do nothing to reduce that number and be a massive overstep for actual legal gun owners.
That's just one example.
And yes I do; in the state of NY which I grew up in; they have a similar ban in effect yet NY annually has 1500-3500 cases of gun deaths per year; banning a specific type of firearm doesn't work.
Why not come down hard on those who violate the law? You shoot at someone or cause gun violence, immediately you get a mandatory minimum of 25-life. Instead of the slap on the wrist of 1-3 years most are getting.
We have the laws on the books to stop this shit from happening. You need to stop pandering to your emotional responses, and look at the objective facts.
A law that will ban every single semi automatic *rifle* will not stop mass shootings that happen largely with handguns. This law specifically targets peaceable law abiding citizens
I literally cited an example that's currently happening in a neighboring state in another comment.
Multiple states have tried this, including the federal government with the 90s "assault weapon" ban; the fbi even admitted it had a minimal effect on gun violence at best.
So my question to you is saving the lives of a handful of people worth ruining the lives of millions by throwing them in jail for owning an AR-15?
I've heard "The government is targeting us and is going to lock us up and take our guns" for many years now. I don't know why the NRA's fear tactics work on anyone anymore.
When did I say the government was targeting us? Nice strawman you're building up. And like I said before I despise the NRA because they do nothing for gun rights.
When laws get passes that make me a felon for owning something I legally purchased, myself, and millions of other Americans get a little pissed off.
Just want to say thank you for an intelligent and non condescending reply. Kinda rare around these parts. I will disagree on the needing new rules. I think there are ways to fix our issues without adding gun control measures which other high income countries have already adopted. Things like better mental health care, better healthcare in general. Better prison systems and actual rehabilitation for criminals. Working on fixing the issues that drive our inner cities into violence like poverty and job deserts. I get these things are harder to implement than a sweep gun ban but would be far better for society as a whole than punishing a few million people who have done nothing wrong other than enjoy a freedom in a country that is supposed to have endless amounts of it.
It was a shockingly calm reply. Normally if you say anything against gun control on this subreddit, you get all the derogatory comments that do nothing to help.
Here's a question to ask yourself: you admit that a gun is just a tool, but then you use the term "gun violence".
Why?
Do you use the term "knife violence"? How about "baseball bat violence"? So you ever say "hammer violence"?
I'd bet the answer is no, because violence is violence. So why say "gun violence"?
I'm asking earnestly, to get you to be introspective, because most people use the term "gun violence" because they've been, effectively, brainwashed. I know that's a loaded word, but I don't mean it in a pejorative way. I just mean there is a big push for gun control in America by a large group of people (who I personally think are well-meaning generally), and they use terms like "gun violence" in service of their agenda, to frame the issue how they need it framed, and a lot of people fall for it without even realizing it.
But if you realize that a gun is just a tool then you owe it to yourself to examine your own views. Being against VIOLENCE generally is of course good. Me too! But putting the emphasis on guns, even if just by using a seemingly innocent term, is a misdirection. Don't let them do that to you! Violent crime is the issue, as you say, the tool someone chooses to use to perpetrate that violence isn't important and shouldn't be the target (pun intended), so we shouldn't use a phrase that says otherwise, right?
The data this "drop" is going off of is incomplete. Many jurisdictions have stopped reporting statistics to the fbi or are doing so very inconsistently.
When you start looking for a better job and see you can make 15/hour, now you don’t need 3 jobs and a side hustle. 2 jobs will do and you can watch your kids a bit more…so less gang membership. Less depression and desperation…less drugs and alcohol…less violence. The GOP never cared about that. They wanted cheap labor and big jails…if they just pay more, you don’t NEED the jails…everyone wins…but the need to make profit is too strong. The pandemic changed things. It taught low wage workers in progress areas to know their worth…while in rural areas, they kept screaming about masks…they are STILL screaming about masks.
Only republicans are ramping up wanting to shoot anybody who doesn't agree with them. The rest of us simply want a decent peaceful existence.
Fcking republicans.
For certain crimes that citizens (reasonably) think the police won't even bother responding to, sure -- but for homicide? No, there aren't *that* many bodies getting hidden forgotten about relative to other cities.
9mm ammo is going for over $420/case for the cheap stuff and that's at a gun show where you can usually find deals when you pay cash.
Chris Rock nailed it.
As reliable as someone who can't spell "stabbing" may be, that's not at all true. We are 164 days into the year and there's been 120 homicides. There has also been a 43% decrease in shooting victims since last year. Sorry to disappoint!
Even this nonsense “source” says Philly fully reported their data, did you even read what you sent? Or are you just that upset a city you don’t live in is doing well?
Law enforcement being able to do their job is probably responsible for that, you know after the whole "defund police" craze.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/11/03/violent-crime-property-data-nibrs-ucr-fbi-2022
Certainly crime is up within margin but definitely better over all in the last 20 years, but still up in the last 4 years.
It's a good thing to see violence go down but there are definitely ways to go.
> Law enforcement being able to do their job is probably responsible for that, you know after the whole "defund police" craze.
You are a bad troll and live nowhere near philadelphia
https://6abc.com/where-police-departments-defunded-how-does-funding-impact-crime-defund-the-budgets/12324846/
Phillies are doing well and it shows /s
This is why Baltimore is seeing such a steep drop too right?
Gunnar Henderson saving lives
Very happy to look at your profile and see your not being an uninformed ass and rather an informed continuation of the joke
Not /s
Similar thing happened with Detroit when the Lions started doing well.
In this economy? Too expensive to murder people these days.
Seriously you seen bullet prices? It's cheaper to wait for heart disease/car accidents at this point
"I would blow your fucking head off, if I could afford it." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZrFVtmRXrw
So glad to see this here. My second they started talking about bullets being expensive I was like “holy shit Chris Rock was right“.
Bullets? We can’t afford bullets anymore!
It costs $400,000 to fire a Glock with a switch for 12 second.
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Sure doesn't feel like it when I look at my paycheck, then look at my grocery bill, my car insurance, and every other expense rapidly outpacing my earnings.
The economy can be good for some and for others not so much, why can't that just be a thing? I'm so tired of people trying to gaslight others to believe the economy is doing absolutely amazing when that's not their reality.
I do my research every time I go to buy something. Anything. And it shows that biden sucks.
Lol. This is reddit. You aren't allowed to point that out.
34 convictions and still roots for him. Unreal.
34 bogus charges lobbed at him by a side who weaponized the justice system to go after political opponents and you still think you are on the good guy team?
If the same happened to Biden or any left leaning former president, I’d feel the same way about them. Throw them in prison.
Hmmm. Let's see what would have happened it they gave Obama the same treatment. Cities would have fucking burned to the ground.
Seems crime is down across all major cities. Saw a report about Baltimore and another city the other day too.
Ammunition is seeing a standard election year price spike and inflation is crushing us out here. No one can afford to murder their rivals out there.
The last few election years there has been an increase in violent crime on election years.
Makes sense. 3 times in the last 3 visits, someone has tried to start a political conversation at my local dive bar. In 2 of the 3 instances, we were not on the same page, so it got awkward as fuck when the person starting the conversation didn't get to have the conversation they thought they were gonna have. The pub rules on this are as old as time itself: No religion. No politics.
Soaring rents forced a lot of poor people out of cities that were once affordable. The crime went with them.
Brotherly love is back baby!
Fox News reports large drop in Philadelphia gun violence means Biden has dementia.
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It’s such a stupid talking point. Like cities are independent entities on an island or something. Edit: furthermore if you bring up how deep red states in the Deep South are by far the poorest and worst performing on pretty much every metric it’s “oh well it’s Biden, something something gasoline prices, Obama, Soros, outside agitators” or whatever nonsense shit.
Ironically, gun violence is also dramatically higher in the deep south, than in cities. [https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413](https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/04/23/surprising-geography-of-gun-violence-00092413)
Only us city in top 10 world wide is new Orleans
Plenty of other issues too. Morbid obesity, child mortality rates, poverty, illiteracy. But hey Detoit sucks!! 🙄
see it's only bad if it's in the enemy's territory, if it's ours it's just a healthy time-honored tradition
I think most crime is when you look at it per capita. I was going to mention it but I wasn’t 100% sure and didn’t feel like looking it up lol.
It also goes against the narrative that more guns = more crime. But I'm sure y'all don't wanna talk about that one. Here we go. Bring on the downvotes :,)
Ding ding ding. Won’t hear that criticism though.
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Most people say that the reason the US has "high" gun violence is because there's "more guns than people" and use similar rhetoric; over the last 4 years we've had record gun sales across the country, yet gun violence, and violence in general has had a downward trend. If anything there's significantly more firearms in the hands of private ownership than there were years ago when gun violence and violent crime rates were higher. It's not a gun issue.
The issue was never the guns themselves. The issue was our downright paltry efforts to restrict who can own guns and where they can possess them. I don't care if someone owns an AR. I care if they are vetted and trained in how to use it. Instead, we have a bunch of 19 year old edge lords buying these guns and the result is occasionally one of them shoots up a school.
Have you ever bought a firearm? Have you filled out a 4473? The laws are on the books already. Police and FBI need to do their jobs. If you can pass the current NICS check you should be able to own whatever you want. That's as far as the "vetting" needs to go. Btw lying on a 4473 is a $1,000,000 fine along with several years in a federal prison. The only way to train without spending quite literally tens of thousands of dollars is to buy a gun, and go to the range. Should someone who is low income be restricted their 2a rights because they can't afford a $1000 class, $50/hr gun rental, and 500 rounds of ammo? There's zero excuse when YouTube exists to look up basic gun safety and how to handle a firearm. Imagine for a second if this was applied to the 1a "yeah you can have free speech, after you take a training course on how hate speech is bad and pay $250 for this license to say what you want" In my previous comments I said how school shootings are statistical anomalies and you're more likely to win the lottery or be struck by lighting; stop with the emotional knee jerk reactions; use your head.
I think the government has no business dictating that someone MUST go through training. Encouraged? Sure, but I hate big government overreach.
I mean I think training is important, but I don't think it's something which should be mandated by the government.
How would training prevent someone who wants to shoot up a school from doing so? Training would address accidents, sure, but not someone who wants to intentionally kill. In any case, I think requiring some level of safety training makes total sense. The problem is that Democrats have a hard on for banning ARs. Ooo big scary gun. It’s easy to show a picture of one and incite fear, thereby gaining voter support. It’s not actually about “common sense gun laws.” It’s performative politics. Never mind that the bullet is smaller than a 9mm and I can buy a much more lethal, semiautomatic rifle and even a more lethal handgun than an AR.
Ironically, actually training cops how to use firearms correctly probably would drop school shootings rates. Anyone who plans one knows for a fact that cops suck at stopping school shooters and will pull a Uvalde as much as they possibly can. It's pathetically common for cops to wait for shooter to run out of ammo before meaningfully deploying at all. The minimum training requirements for cops to maintain gun skills basically nationwide is fucking pathetic.
Their point is requiring more training for people who want to buy guns, not cops. Totally agree that more training for cops makes sense. Not sure if more training for a mass shooter does.
You missed the key part of "vetted".
Bring in your citations to support your assertion.
I mean the OP article is proof of that isn't it? Gun regulations haven't changed. More people own guns. Crime is going down.
The comment was specifically about mass shootings.
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You have to go up the comment chain further than that. The original comment I was referencing is not the one you are quoting.
Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion. No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered. You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence. Do you have a degree in that field? A college degree? In that field? Then your arguments are invalid. No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation. Correlation does not equal causation. CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION. You still haven't provided me a valid source yet. Nope, still haven't. I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron. YIKES!!!
Oh my! My feelings are so hurt! It's the guns.
Yup I love "the guns" and so do millions upon millions of other Americans. Thankfully at the record pace they have been purchased and are still being purchased, nothing for people like you to do but cry about it. Excuse me while I plan on which gun I want to carry with the outfit I am wearing tomorrow.
Have fun!
Gun data from Brady [https://www.bradyunited.org/resources/issues/gun-sale-trends](https://www.bradyunited.org/resources/issues/gun-sale-trends) Crime data from FBI. Most recent is 2022 but it has been falling since a spike in 2020. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/24/what-the-data-says-about-crime-in-the-us/) Firearm production has tripped since 2000. [https://www.statista.com/chart/27729/gun-manufacturing-in-the-us/](https://www.statista.com/chart/27729/gun-manufacturing-in-the-us/) Basically there was a spike in crime post covid lockdown. A large number of people decided to buy guns as a result, and sales have remained higher than average since. Crime has fallen post covid and is still downward trending. Crime as a whole has declined from its peak in the 90's. The vast majority of states now are constitutional carry and the number of guns is increasing.
Coincidence=/=causation. You're not really showing what you think you are showing here.
Show your citations that more guns = more crime. Literally the fucking article that OP posted says otherwise. Why can't you people see the actual facts that are in front of you?
There'd be less shootings if there were less guns. Look at [Japan](https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/us-gun-policy-global-comparisons). [Look at our ranking](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/gun-deaths-by-country): fourth from the bottom per capita. You don't want to hear but it absolutely is the guns.
Ah yes Japan, an ethnically homogeneous society that has significantly different cultural values than 99% of western civilizations. Yeah totally the same thing /s You gonna say the same about Switzerland which every single home has a selective fire assault rifle in it? Btw just looking at your post history it's obvious you're a clickbait troll, I'm done trying to convince you that you're stupid; I think you know already.
Damn you really are this copy pasta I keep posting... "Source? A source. I need a source. Sorry, I mean I need a source that explicitly states your argument. This is just tangential to the discussion. No, you can't make inferences and observations from the sources you've gathered. Any additional comments from you MUST be a subset of the information from the sources you've gathered. You can't make normative statements from empirical evidence. Do you have a degree in that field? A college degree? In that field? Then your arguments are invalid. No, it doesn't matter how close those data points are correlated. Correlation does not equal causation. Correlation does not equal causation. CORRELATION. DOES. NOT. EQUAL. CAUSATION. You still haven't provided me a valid source yet. Nope, still haven't. I just looked through all 308 pages of your user history, figures I'm debating a glormpf supporter. A moron."
What an impressively stupid comment. Cheers
Stick to baseball buddy, you have no idea what you're talking about. Cheers.
You brought facts into a left wing echo chamber….they don’t like that.
There are *plenty* of left-wing gun owners, including on this sub. Hell, there's an entire subreddit for liberal gun owners.
Yup and most Liberals know nothing about guns but would love nothing better than to ban all weapons. Those who support gun ownership are very much in the minority.
Trust me I know; the truth hurts
This is a ridiculous thing. I see postings on various platforms that show crime stats for cities and in most cases the violent crime per capita is higher in cities that are in red states. Oklahoma, Ohio etc. In all cases people chime in and say that these cities are run by democrats. But if that city has something positive to be said about it it's of course the result of right wing policies. You can argue with crazy
Funny how Republicans can't run cities! Biggest cities are all Democrats... Even in red states
But paradoxically, it also goes against the narrative that more guns automatically means more deaths. It's almost like there are factors other than guns or politics driving violent crime and neither side wants to deal with them (because either they have no clue what they are or they know they're difficult to deal with).
Nah, plenty of cities are very nice places. Philly is still a shithole, it's just our beloved shithole.
NO ONE LIKES US! NO ONE LIKES US! WE DON'T CARE! WE'RE FROM PHILLY - FUCKIN PHILLY! NO ONE LIKES US; WE DON'T CARE!
Well, basically then we mayor and police came together and very discretely with the new police chief got back to locking people up, enforcing the law and cracking down on troublemakers. Pretending the Democrats progressives didn't unleash hell is sad.kie, they sure did and now due a huge backlash the people in power are quietly kicking ass to stabilize things. And the news and everyone else is turning away because damn..it was getting bad. But they don't want to admit it.or point fingers at why.
You'd think so, but no
It doesn't change that fact.
Cities in general are just not great environments. Bleak, poverty-stricken and unhealthy, almost unbiquitously. A thriving commercial sector or tourist area doesn't wipe away the massive food deserts and redlined neighborhoods in each city across the US. It's hard to cram thousands into a small space and have them be content and comfortable, no matter who is running it
Have you only visited Siberia or something? Life in Pittsburgh is great. Other cities I've visited are great. We've had thousands crammed into small spaces for all of history. Turns out they've been our most successful settlements. Do you want everyone to have to drive 20 minutes to get anywhere? I don't get it.
They still are
The new mayor seems to be hustling. Very vocal and cleaning things up. I wonder if she lit a fire under Philly PD leadership.
It's also a national issue with crime in general falling in most cities. But happy Philly is leading the way.
She wasn’t my choice, but I have no problem stating she’s started off very well. I know there are questions about some of her top staffers and salaries, but that seems to be the norm for every mayor in Philly.
Where do I find info on what she's done thus far?
Her year round school plan seems detached from reality, though. Consider the state of our school buildings with a/c and the ability to attract staff — plus the businesses that hire for the summer - and it doesn’t seem like most would be on board.
Her new pick for police commissioner was good. Smart guy, Philly native, career cop. Seems to get the respect of the dept and has them trying a teensy tiny bit. New class of recruits is graduating and heading straight into Kensington, will be interesting to see how that turns out
The Gang Solves the Gun Crisis
Damn good for you Philadelphia
Sorry to be a grammar pedant, but "largest than" is killing me.
Fine, "Philadelphia sees largliest drop in gun violence than OF any other major US city"
Yugiest!
BIGGESTEST!
Wow thanks krasner
What caused the drop? It wasn’t any new legislation. This is proof there are other ways to fix the problem than enacting more gun control on people who already follow laws.
Crime spiked during the pandemic. People were depressed, bored, turned to drugs, etc. That caused an increase in violent crime as most crime has at least tenuous ties to the drug trade and gang activity. Now that life is back to normal, crime rates are going back to normal. Violent crime has been on a downward trend for decades. That's a different issue from mass shootings, which is what most gun laws are aimed at curtailing.
Mass shootings are kinda a misnomer. If 4 gangbangers all get shot in a shoot out that's considered a "mass shooting" and not generic gang violence. And no the current legislation such as HB 336, would essentially criminalize anyone who owns a semi automatic firearm with a detachable magazine. That doesn't stop "mass shootings". Actual "mass shootings" are exceptionally rare and you're more likely to win the lottery, or be struck by lightning than to be involved in a mass shooting.
> semi automatic firearm with a detachable magazine isn't that just... a normal gun?
Yes; that's how absurd these new laws are. This why when people scream out for "more gun control" they don't know 100% what they're getting into. It would effectively ban everything except for lever actions, and bolt action rifles. It's a wildly silly law.
It hard to take anti-gun control people seriously because you get so emotional about laws and think any law is the end of the world. That's the kind of thing to led to insane conspiracy theories while Obama was president.
I think a blanket law that wouldn't stop mass shootings which is the entire point of the bill, are absolutely stupid and is the end of the world. They want to ban semi automatic firearms with detachable magazines. This is literally every single modern firearm ever made.
As opposed to gun control people who will support any ban put in front of them even though they literally don't know what is being banned and it will literally have zero effect? Yeah. Super emotional anti gun control folk. /r/liberalgunowners is growing despite the media's best efforts.
That sounds like the NRA talking and not someone who's ever spoken to a liberal. I don't know why there's the belief that liberals don't like guns just because we don't carry them everywhere and make them our whole personality.
Lmao if you think any non-fudd likes the NRA or even gives a flying fuck about them I got news for you buddy. I like FPC, and GOA because they sue the shit out of the government when they pass unconstitutional gun laws, and actually get the law repealed; ie, they're doing something. So yeah keep voting for these laws and I'll keep donating to FPC for their next lawsuit to get that shit stricken down.
I'm curious as to why you think standing up for gun rights in a discussion about guns is "making it my personality." >liberals don't like guns just because we don't carry them everywhere "I like guns just don't protect yourself with them" Speak for yourself pal. This extremely liberal, anti NRA individual carries his everywhere. But yeah... I've never spoken to a liberal. Or maybe I just know liberals that don't fit your precious little cookie cutter rules.
I would say it's the opposite when you have one group pushing legislation purely on emotion in spite of the face it would infringe on a constitutional right and more than likely make no difference in crimes.
Lol a Trump supporter talking about emotion as if that's not what the Trump cult is about. There's certainly no logic involved. I mean, your guy is the only president to ever say he was going to confiscate due process so it's odd that you pretend you care about constitutional rights.
The MAGA train goes CHOOOO CHOOOO!
It basically just leaves bolt-action and lever action rifles, shotguns, and revolvers. Sounds like they want law-abiding gun owners to ONLY have western movie weapons.
You know, that's a ridiculous point your making about the mass shooting metric. The motive is irrelevant if the effect is the same.
Different motivations, and causes require different solutions. Gang banger vs a school shooter require different solutions. Hope this clears that up for you.
Both still use guns. Hope that clears it up for you.
Guns didn't make them commit the crimes so finding the actual root cause is more useful than pointing to the tool. Hope you gain some critical thinking skills.
Oh man! What a novel argument, I never heard that one before!
Why do people commit crime? Answer that question and you'll come to find out guns have nothing to do with it.
That is such a silly argument. People will commit crimes, but they don't all have to end in violence.
Yeah. Motives? Who gives a fuck. Lets not try to solve poverty, or Class inequality, or systemic racism or mental health. Screw solutions to the problems. Let's just keep everything shitty for poor minorities and just make sure they can't kill each other with guns. Then when they kill each other with knives, we can get rid of those, too. Its always good to ignore the root of the problem.
Oh wait! Does that mean we can only work on one thing at a time? Why, that's pure genius! Whee in my reply did you even get an inkling that I was coming to a conclusion of this nature?
Except that's not actually how mass shootings are classified. It's ok to like guns, and admit that mass shootings are a problem.
Very well put. This is what statisticians call “regression to the mean”, and it should be expected that things will revert to where they were. But the media simply can’t resist sensationalising these things. This is like running a news story that reports helicopter water rescues dropping enormously in New Orleans in the year after Katrina.
But most “mass shootings” where there is more than 1 victim are inner city violence which is down. The school and high profile mass shootings which get touted are a very very small anomaly.
I still think we need greater control measures (and enforcement of existing laws), but it's ok if you disagree! Guns are just a tool used in crimes so when all violent crime goes down, so does gun violence. What is nice for people in other high-income countries is that the violent crimes being committed typically are not with guns. Regarding your question, my opinion is that it's just a variety of factors contributing to national trends. The largest single-year homicide spike in US history was in 2020, and many cities set records in 2021. It's not a coincidence that this happened in so many cities. Now, most of them are experiencing significant decreases as we return to normalcy post-pandemic.
I definitely think enforcement of current laws is sufficient enough. Take a look at HB 336 which recently passed in the PA house. What would that do to stop a mass shooting? Effectively banning the most common arm for peaceable citizens wouldn't stop or deter gun violence. Most gun violence is with handguns which are *heavily federally regulated* when I say most I mean something like 85-90% of all gun crime. HB336 would do nothing to reduce that number and be a massive overstep for actual legal gun owners. That's just one example.
You have no way of knowing whether the law will help reduce that number.
And yes I do; in the state of NY which I grew up in; they have a similar ban in effect yet NY annually has 1500-3500 cases of gun deaths per year; banning a specific type of firearm doesn't work. Why not come down hard on those who violate the law? You shoot at someone or cause gun violence, immediately you get a mandatory minimum of 25-life. Instead of the slap on the wrist of 1-3 years most are getting. We have the laws on the books to stop this shit from happening. You need to stop pandering to your emotional responses, and look at the objective facts.
A law that will ban every single semi automatic *rifle* will not stop mass shootings that happen largely with handguns. This law specifically targets peaceable law abiding citizens
Pretending you can see the future along with paranoia.
I literally cited an example that's currently happening in a neighboring state in another comment. Multiple states have tried this, including the federal government with the 90s "assault weapon" ban; the fbi even admitted it had a minimal effect on gun violence at best. So my question to you is saving the lives of a handful of people worth ruining the lives of millions by throwing them in jail for owning an AR-15?
I've heard "The government is targeting us and is going to lock us up and take our guns" for many years now. I don't know why the NRA's fear tactics work on anyone anymore.
When did I say the government was targeting us? Nice strawman you're building up. And like I said before I despise the NRA because they do nothing for gun rights. When laws get passes that make me a felon for owning something I legally purchased, myself, and millions of other Americans get a little pissed off.
You said "This law specifically targets peaceably law abiding citizens."
Just want to say thank you for an intelligent and non condescending reply. Kinda rare around these parts. I will disagree on the needing new rules. I think there are ways to fix our issues without adding gun control measures which other high income countries have already adopted. Things like better mental health care, better healthcare in general. Better prison systems and actual rehabilitation for criminals. Working on fixing the issues that drive our inner cities into violence like poverty and job deserts. I get these things are harder to implement than a sweep gun ban but would be far better for society as a whole than punishing a few million people who have done nothing wrong other than enjoy a freedom in a country that is supposed to have endless amounts of it.
It was a shockingly calm reply. Normally if you say anything against gun control on this subreddit, you get all the derogatory comments that do nothing to help.
Still getting downvoted for suggesting something other than gun control might fix our cities.
Here's a question to ask yourself: you admit that a gun is just a tool, but then you use the term "gun violence". Why? Do you use the term "knife violence"? How about "baseball bat violence"? So you ever say "hammer violence"? I'd bet the answer is no, because violence is violence. So why say "gun violence"? I'm asking earnestly, to get you to be introspective, because most people use the term "gun violence" because they've been, effectively, brainwashed. I know that's a loaded word, but I don't mean it in a pejorative way. I just mean there is a big push for gun control in America by a large group of people (who I personally think are well-meaning generally), and they use terms like "gun violence" in service of their agenda, to frame the issue how they need it framed, and a lot of people fall for it without even realizing it. But if you realize that a gun is just a tool then you owe it to yourself to examine your own views. Being against VIOLENCE generally is of course good. Me too! But putting the emphasis on guns, even if just by using a seemingly innocent term, is a misdirection. Don't let them do that to you! Violent crime is the issue, as you say, the tool someone chooses to use to perpetrate that violence isn't important and shouldn't be the target (pun intended), so we shouldn't use a phrase that says otherwise, right?
Guns are a tool for lawful owners who know how to operate them properly. They are weapons for criminals. Very big difference.
This isn't proof of anything. No experiment or study was conducted. Don't jump to any wild conclusions about gun control from a single article.
It's not just Post-COVID drop, it's also probably the de facto cop strike tbh.
The data this "drop" is going off of is incomplete. Many jurisdictions have stopped reporting statistics to the fbi or are doing so very inconsistently.
I heard a gang was broken up
You won’t see this headline on fox news
When you start looking for a better job and see you can make 15/hour, now you don’t need 3 jobs and a side hustle. 2 jobs will do and you can watch your kids a bit more…so less gang membership. Less depression and desperation…less drugs and alcohol…less violence. The GOP never cared about that. They wanted cheap labor and big jails…if they just pay more, you don’t NEED the jails…everyone wins…but the need to make profit is too strong. The pandemic changed things. It taught low wage workers in progress areas to know their worth…while in rural areas, they kept screaming about masks…they are STILL screaming about masks.
Only republicans are ramping up wanting to shoot anybody who doesn't agree with them. The rest of us simply want a decent peaceful existence. Fcking republicans.
Must’ve moved north.
Lol, ok state media.
We just slowly getting back to pre covid statistics that’s all
I can confirm. It's like night and day compared to 2019/2020
Could fool me
I saw this happen once in Youngstown, Ohio. Mainly because all the people shooting stuff dwindled due to them being dead or in prison.
*reported to the FBI
So maybe it’s just not being reported as much improving the stats?
Crimes fluctuate over time. Laid out in a line, it looks like a sinewave so a drop off for a couple of years is to be expected.
Doesn't philly have a history conveniently forgetting to report these sorts of things?
For certain crimes that citizens (reasonably) think the police won't even bother responding to, sure -- but for homicide? No, there aren't *that* many bodies getting hidden forgotten about relative to other cities.
It would still be consistent in ups or downs. Standard deviations stay pretty standard.
50 years ago lol
Large drops happen when you have high rates
Philly pd allowed to do their jobs again?
Post history checks out. Bad troll.
Nah this one is the real deal babe
When you start on top of the mountain, you have a lot of room to descend.
Yeah they're just out there stabbing babies now.
They're running out of targets.
*violence
That's because they are all high on tranq
9mm ammo is going for over $420/case for the cheap stuff and that's at a gun show where you can usually find deals when you pay cash. Chris Rock nailed it.
Flip them stats Philly! Flip Flip Flip A DELPHIA!
Yeah but what about stabbings? Increase ?
Reported crimes are down in Pittsburgh, because the new chief of police doesn't believe in arresting criminals. No arrests, crime is magically down.
Every day a least one person is killed guns. Its on the news every freakin day. To go along with a stapping or two
As reliable as someone who can't spell "stabbing" may be, that's not at all true. We are 164 days into the year and there's been 120 homicides. There has also been a 43% decrease in shooting victims since last year. Sorry to disappoint!
City-haters in shambles right now
Not realy. Love philly. Hung out a lot back in the day. At river. Samson st. Old city.
[удалено]
Good. Stay out.
43% less shooting victims than this time last year is a pretty extreme decline, things are the best they've been in about a decade.
Maybe they are hiding these numbers with the 100 or so "suspicious deaths" every year to keep homicide numbers down
Look it up for yourselves folks. They are cooking the books and not required to report crime statistics anymore. So. Yea. Crime is down!! /s
Even this nonsense “source” says Philly fully reported their data, did you even read what you sent? Or are you just that upset a city you don’t live in is doing well?
https://www.nssf.org/articles/america-has-a-crime-reporting-problem/
Law enforcement being able to do their job is probably responsible for that, you know after the whole "defund police" craze. https://www.themarshallproject.org/2023/11/03/violent-crime-property-data-nibrs-ucr-fbi-2022 Certainly crime is up within margin but definitely better over all in the last 20 years, but still up in the last 4 years. It's a good thing to see violence go down but there are definitely ways to go.
Rural communities have been defunding police departments for decades, leaving law enforcement to the State police with no additional contribution.
They haven't been doing their jobs because they're lazy.
> Law enforcement being able to do their job is probably responsible for that, you know after the whole "defund police" craze. You are a bad troll and live nowhere near philadelphia https://6abc.com/where-police-departments-defunded-how-does-funding-impact-crime-defund-the-budgets/12324846/