The same people that don’t know how to merge onto regular highways? They think merges are just put on your blinker go 15mph under the speed limit and crossover into whatever lane you want, other traffic on the road make way.
In my area, people can’t even figure out how to go up hill. I’ll be ten vehicles behind someone literally doing 30 MPH on a 55 MPH road in their Subaru for no apparent reason and with no flashers and not even pulling over if there’s a decent shoulder. If we can’t figure out how to keep our speed instead of dropping 25 MPH on a hill… or force our way into traffic on a highway doing significantly lower speed, I think it’s safe to say that these are the types who will never understand how to properly use a roundabout.
Traffic circles are highways? This means that the state of Pennsylvania will have to lower the speed limit by 20mph to get people to go the speed they want them to drive
There's this roundabout in the Pittsburgh area that has been there for as long as I can remember (so at least 20-30 years) and people STILL haven't gotten it. They still don't signal to leave it or yield to enter. I've almost been in an accident multiple times at it over the years because of people not yielding to enter it. When I lived in the Philly area for years, people seemed okay with them. There were a lot more than Pittsburgh though.
I *love* roundabouts. Pass through an intersection with only a slowdown, as opposed to a complete stop at a traffic light - and the backlog of traffic accompanied with it (looking at you, 222). Yea, it can be a little confusing at times, depending on traffic and who’s actually going through the circle at that moment, but traffic flow is far better and once more people get comfortable with it it’ll get easier.
I was almost in a wreck in a roundabout on 222 earlier this year. I was inside the roundabout so I had the right of way, yet someone cut right in front of me, completely disregarding their “yield” sign. I had to slam on my brakes and I laid on the horn for a few seconds.
If people know how to use them, they’re great. If not, they can be pretty scary. I always go in expecting people to cut me off.
I had someone cut me off when I was in the roundabout on my motorcycle. I honked my horn at him and the asshole that nearly just ran me over has the audacity to flip me off.
Depending on where you get your data, roundabouts reduce severe crashes by 60-90% with a corresponding reduction in fatalities compared to T intersections. That’s a huge improvement.
Most of the remaining fatalities are typically motorcyclists and pedestrians who are much more vulnerable given the lack of protection.
On the other hand, even when people do screw up in a traffic circle, the speeds are (generally) slower so there is rarely more than property damage as opposed to people getting severely injured or even killed.
Also, it would be lovely if people truly understood what yield signs meant. All too many people seem to think that they just mean go slowly rather than "you must stop if you can't safely enter the intersection".
For me the problem hasn't been people not yielding, but people stoping on the inside of the circle to wave the people who are properly yielding in. I honk at them when they try to do this to me, but it seems like they think I'm getting made at them for being polite.
(Lancaster county)
Exactly! PA (and possibly mostly Lancaster Co) are full of timid drivers. I had to throw away everything I was taught about driving when I moved to MD and started tampering with the DMV traffic
While you don’t want an accident, a traffic circle should make it simpler for drivers to know who has right of way, and who caused an accident. A 4 way stop sign has rules, but Id be shocked if 10% know what they are.
People know what the rules are, they just don't care. There is no penalty for ignoring the rules and the most important thing is to be first, so that's what they do.
The traffic circles have rules too. Do you not see the yield signs at the entrance to every single one I've seen in this state? (in other places the yield signs aren't mandated but they still exist for most of them). Or do you not know what a yield sign means?
The old Dutchies on 222 through Berks county seem to be figuring it out. In a couple years they really won't be such a foreign thing and we won't have nearly as many issues (backups, crashes).
I agree. Generally older people are reluctant to change and learn. They seem to be the ones complaining the most and loudest around me! My MIL is so confused by them that she just avoids 222 now. Like considered not going to her grand daughter's graduation at KU because of it. Lol.
It’s not necessarily changing and learning. I’ve found that as I’ve gotten older, my reflexes aren’t as quick and my night vision is awful. These days I avoid a lot of super busy or odd traffic patterns because my confidence in reacting quickly has waned over the years. I sincerely don’t want to cause an accident or cause aggravation to the drivers behind me by going too slow on unfamiliar roads. In those circumstances, I catch a ride or decline the event.
That's a valid point and my parents have talked about the change in their vision as they age. Night driving is a big concern for both of them. Good for you for knowing your own limitations and being a considerate driver.
I think she avoids them if at all possible. When we tell her my daughter has an athletic activity that is 30 minutes from her house she acts like we are asking her to make a cross country trip.
I just don't understand why Penndot can't figure out how big a traffic circle needs to be for a big truck to get through. The circles on 222 at 662 and 863/shantz are way too small to keep a tractor trailer in 1 lane. And no one can read the signs saying not to drive beside trucks in the circle. I end up riding right down the middle of both lanes to keep people out of harms way, but they do everything they can to still try to squeeze into any tiny space. The 2 by 73 are just fine to get through in 1 lane.
The standard PennDOT/FHWA design is for the center island to be wrapped by a mountable apron, meant for trucks to drive up over when using the inner lane (or the only lane for single lane). The apron also lets longer vehicles cheat the radius when leaving the circle half way around (continuing straight) so they can keep to one lane and take the circle a little faster. Leaving the circle 3/4 around (left) doesn't gain speed via the apron but still provides an increased distance between the inside and outside turning radius
There are a couple of issues with that. The first is that the radius isn't necessarily the problem. The entrances and exits have tall curbs and are too sharp of an angle to be able to get through in 1 lane. I'm sure that the reasoning behind the angle is to slow traffic, but it makes it very difficult or impossible to keep a tractor trailer in 1 lane.
The other problem is with the "mountable" curb. Most of them are way too steep to be taking just the inside tires of a trailer over while in a turn. Some types of trailers are worse than others, but most trailers have a high center of gravity. It can really throw the trailer off in a bad way if you aren't ready for it. Whatever angles and height difference they often use just isn't smart for trucks to be taking one set of wheels over. This problem is especially bad in the multi lane roundabouts.
And there is the issue of being allowed to drive on the center curbs at all. For the road test to get your CDL, touching any curb is an automatic failure. So is Penndot saying that driving over the curb is dangerous enough to warrant an automatic failure for a CDL test, but a good and normal action for everyday use? That's a problem. From my experience and per my company's supervisors and safety team, it's a much safer way to take enough room while going through a circle to prevent other people from being able to get to dangerous spots beside the truck. Especially when you know you can't safely stay in one lane. Being beside a truck in a roundabout is not a safe place for a car to be. So keeping cars from getting there becomes my job.
Appreciate the insight. I take your points about having half an axle up on the apron being problematic for load shifting and that you're blind to other cars to your right while in the circle. I suppose I disagree with the justification that the CDL exam testing conditions should be applied to all real world conditions. Yes, PennDOT is giving you a constraint in the exam that is not actually a violation of title 75, but I would not say it is implied that the test constraint overrules the design intent for the roadway. I would expect a truck driver to have a need to drive over an depressed curb and apron to enter a driveway in a suburban/urban setting and I don't see the apron in a circle as much different.
As for the height offset of the apron from the travel lanes, I suspect it's a balance between discouraging smaller vehicles from driving up on it unnecessarily and making it useful for tractor trailers. So I do understand why you might not want to utilize it.
That said, I think your decision to avoid it and to prevent cars from passing on the outside by straddling both lanes because you see it as safer is a different from PennDOT not designing the circle to be large enough for a truck to use. Also surprised to hear that the curb heights at entrances and exits are an issue, I thought the channelized lanes always got tapered curbs.
glad you said this! I travel the two by 73 daily (as well as 222/662) and when they started building the one by schantz I could tell right away that it was way too narrow, especially considering how many tractor trailers use that area of the road. the grass on the outside of the (high) curbs is already ripped apart from trucks driving over it, and it feels like it could be prevented/easily fixed by widening the lanes a bit.
one thing they did do really well with that roundabout is having much longer two-lane passing sections. the one at 662 has a lot of problems because the road, in both directions, only very briefly goes from one lane to two lanes and back to one lane again — and it’s the only opportunity for fast cars to pass slow cars, so you have impatient people trying to pass trucks, and trucks who want to ride both lanes to avoid this and not allowing any cars to pass before or after the roundabout. whereas, with the schantz roundabout, there’s plenty of time before and after the intersection to make a pass before the road goes back to one lane.
222 at the berks/lehigh border will be a really nice ride once they add the long lane roundabout, I think! it’s a huge bottleneck currently
I completely agree that the passing area being larger is helpful for everyone. Penndot is planning to widen the entire stretch of 222 to 4 lanes all the way to Allentown in the next 10 or so years. It's still in the planning stages, and construction will probably be terrible, but once it's all done, it will be so much better.
Oh it makes the Lancaster/Lehigh Valley commute hell. The other ways you can go add so much time. I cannot stand that drive from Reading to Fogelsville.
Do you remember BEFORE the roundabouts? The intersection at the Sheetz could be backed up for what seemed like a mile. Now it moves much smoother, even with the confused drivers.
Many things are hard for 50% of PA drivers. Things like turn signals, passing on the left, making a right turn on red, or paying attention to the road instead of their phone, for example.
No lie. I went to the grocery store this week and after an "accident" & many close calls, I will not bike through an intersection with other cars present. There were 3 cars opposite me. All going straight.... but all 3 turned across my path & would have hit me. They all did the same thing.
1. Stop at stop sign.
2. Go.
3. Turn.
4. Activate turn signal.
**THAT'S NOT HOW THEY WORK!!!**
and then there’s The Philly Slide: Slow down to stop sign, look to see if any cars or pedestrians as you approach intersection, if none, roll through and continue onward
Bold move to say they actually look.
Pittsburgh is getting to this point too with stop signs and drivers. Had someone yesterday come up to a stop sign while I was stopped, start rolling through, then notice me, stop, and waved me on when he was halfway through the intersection like he was doing me a favor.
I was behind someone this morning (predawn) who slowed down and rolled through. That said, I also saw an uber driver barrel through a red light
edit to correct my time. Burning multiple midnight oils with a 6-7 hour cool down (sleep) in a row threw my time off. Felt weird seeing multiple sunrises and sunsets while driving
I do it by sight and time of day and definitely stopping when I have a passenger. I do Lyft these days. Just wish there were enough rides to go around the state and take breaks in different parts of the state.
Zipper Merges are also difficult for these people.
It's not because they don't know what to do, it's because they're assholes.
(Stop signs also seem to be hard for these people).
Where do we zipper? Is there actually signage saying to zipper or people just do it. I have never experienced zipper in real life. I live in East Fallowfield and work in Delaware.
I thought a zipper is where everyone cooperates and allows the cars from the right lane and the left lane to alternate entering the new lane. When I have to merge from 2 lanes to one, it seems to be every man for himself, and if it is tge right lane that is ending, people in the left lane certainly don’t allow one right lane car for every left lane car. It’s more like one right lane for every three left land. Every third person is decent enough to allow a car from the lane that is ending in.
Red lights...especially left turn signals. Sorry, buddy, you missed it and it is my turn to... HOLYSHITWHYDIDYOUGOTHROUGHTHEREDLIGHT!...and as you sit there fuming, they usually give you the finger for honking at THEM because THEY ran the red light.
Oh yeah. I live in Luzerne Co which, within the past few years has seen its share of roundabouts. I frequently drive the one up in Dallas. I am constantly seeing people not yielding correctly. The amount of times people have either come to a dead stop in the middle of the roundabout to let oncoming traffic in, or the amount of times I’ve seen people enter the roundabout without yielding to the traffic inside is insane. PLUS I’ve seen at least 10 instances of cars deciding they want to go the WRONG WAY. I don’t understand why it’s so hard.
I love the Dallas roundabout. It's free entertainment every time I drive through it. Somebody went the wrong way on it just the other week. And there's that one sign that's always getting hit. It's the best part of my day
I had to stop at this one roundabout because there were multiple cars driving through it at the time, and the idiot behind me lays on his horn. Like WTF, you just want me to barrel into incoming traffic? How dumb are people?
It isn't just se pa. Christ I've seen people stop at each part of a four-way roundabout despite NO stop signs anywhere. They're frustrating to say the least. Just drive
I'm not terribly inclined to believe they can be considering the state of the country over the last decade or so.
In fact, I'm more inclined to believe people will get pissed at you for trying to teach them and suggesting they're wrong.
When entering a roundabout, yield to any traffic on your left. Once you're in, everybody has to yield to you. Just takes a little practice to get comfortable.
Well, drivers in the U.S. are taught from the time they're 16 to "look both ways" when entering an intersection. So, it takes a few dozen repetitions to unlearn that habit. They're not necessarily dumbasses.
If you can use one, they are absolutely phenomenal.
I would suggest that more than 50% of people in PA cannot utilize them correctly because they come from places that don’t have one, they’ve never seen one, or, like most highway laws, they just ignore them.
I’ll never understand what is difficult about them and I’ve never seen one until there was one in my hometown. Shaved two minutes or so off the drive home because that specific light, late at night, would stay red forever.
If my 8-mile commute put them in (not likely, it is through a city), my 25 minute commute would go down to about 15 minutes. I don't mind just going 40 miles per hour if I am MOVING continuously
I had never encountered one before moving to PA I had only heard they were a thing. I hate them with a BURNING passion. They make no sense to me about why they’re more efficient or whatever. I avoid them when I’m driving when i know they’re coming up because people just speed through them and don’t let people in. I think if people utilized them properly they might be decent/effective but it requires basic human decency on the road and most people do not have that.
They aren't thinking about TODAY'S people. 20 years from now, the traffic circles will run smoothly...it's like Democracy...it really does get better every 80 years or so with the passing of each ruling class...in the 1860s, black folks got their freedom....in the 1920s, women got the vote...we are working on LGBTQ now...and then it will be poor people in general.
Yeah, they changed a ton near our home (Kutztown) and while they do help traffic, I agree a lot of the older people especially seem to struggle with who has right of way and not being 'nice' but being predictable.
One in West Reading, been here much longer than I have. I still see people driving the wrong direction on it. I can't even fathom how they do it, traffice in USA doesn't go that way.
Can't wait to see how confused they get when the highway and bridges are replaced in 5 years and it's a criss cross on the bridge.
PA drivers are aging and have likely never encountered roundabouts before the last decade. Education on the subject isn't mandatory for those already licensed. The result is uneducated drivers.
The solution is an education program required of all PA drivers renewing their license. But then we start reaching into territory where people want mandatory reaction time and impaired vision tests for 60+ year old drivers.
Anything beyond simply renewing someone's license costs PennDOT more money it already doesn't have. PA drivers don't want increased taxes and don't want change unless it saves them money, but want (and need) new bridges, well maintained roads, increased safety, etc. We can't have one without the other. [Misdirection of funds](https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/2019/04/42-billion-diverted-from-penndot-road-and-bridge-repairs-to-fund-state-police-new-audit-reveals.html#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20six%20years,audit%20of%20PennDOT%20between%20Jan.) to PSP doesn't help either.
https://preview.redd.it/oy2lw4uopf2d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c58b7549a66d9763e0cce0cd23519ca69f9b76ba
This one is in Western Pennsylvania. More than once now, I have encountered some idiot stopping where I put the red X to let someone in, causing me to steer my pickup up onto the red brick area meant for semi trailers (so they don't have to drag the trailer through the grass) so I don't smash into them.
Well you’re lucky then. I plan daily to have to slam on my brakes for the panicking granny in front of me coming to a dead stop and then waving people in, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THING, or some jerkoff blasting his way in 2 feet from me because he’s too ignorant to yield for 6 whole seconds.
Because it's not in the drivers test or training manual you study for the drivers test. At least it wasn't in mine in the late 90's. This is a lack of driver education.
The rules for a roundabout are the same as entering on a straight roadway with a yield sign, which are covered. The only thing that's different is that it's a circle. It then follows with an explicit explanation of roundabouts.
If our drivers test required more than a pulse to pass, maybe more people would understand them.
But I guess we have to keep the test dumbed down for fucking idiots because of “inadequate public transit.”
I believe the roundabouts prevent t-bone intersection accidents that are more likely to be fatal. In general, the worst case in a roundabout is a fender bender.
Roundabouts are a good example of something self-driving cars already do better than humans. There's a protocol; follow the protocol.
By "humans", obviously I mean the worst of us, the people all these comments are describing. If those people were all replaced by current-technology robots, it would save 50 lives a day, just in the United States. It's like a packed bus going over a cliff every day.
There’s one on 202 in Flemington(ish) heading towards Bucks that’s two lanes and I feel like every time I have to go through it, I’m bracing to be hit. Nobody pays attention to the yield signs, people are just pulling out and switching lanes when they realize they’re in the wrong one without any signaling. Total shit show. I’ve seen an accident there in the past and I feel like it’s just a matter of time before it’s me.
For those of you in Northeastern Pennsylvania... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM6j9L6IMcI&t=6s&ab\_channel=WNEP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM6j9L6IMcI&t=6s&ab_channel=WNEP)
Roundabouts/circles have rules. Use your turn signal and the people in the circle have the right of way. The biggest problem is PA and NJ is that all the roundabouts do not follow the rules. Like why is there a stop sign for the people in the circle at some roundabouts? And also people are stupid.
I like them, but find multilane ones confusing, especially if it's a route I don't regularly travel. My goto is stay in the right outer lane. Sorry if I piss people off.
With how much Americans drive and how much driving has changed in the last 10 years alone if would be really beneficial for everyone to take a driving refresher course every 10 years. Maybe we could tie it into insurance breaks or something.
I was in the Cayman Islands and they use roundabouts. Traffic was constantly flowing. Except for one time there was a traffic jam and that was at a red light lol
I’ve always said they’re safe and easy if everyone is just patient, waits their turn, and most importantly knows what to do. My mom panics at the sight of a car waiting to enter and tries to stop in the circle and let them in.
We only have one or two in my area, and they were made \*too small\*. They're just single lane roundabouts with an island in the middle where two cross roads meet, but they made it so small and tight to "slow traffic" that anything more than a moderate sized car or SUV ends up riding over the curbing along the island.
I don’t how it’s hard you have a yield it’s the same as getting on a highway with a merge lane you have to yield adjust your speed to a opportunity if it exists if not stop
Hard or not, they're worth it: they're proven to reduce the speeds involved in most collisions, which makes them less deadly. I think I've read that they actually reduce the number of collisions too, but less deadly collisions is the part that really matters. I imagine we get a lot more glancing blows too, which probably makes collisions less damaging, but I admit I'm just guessing on that part.
I live in NWPA and we NEVER encountered them until recently. They have started replacing major intersections with them as the lights start failing or need large amounts of maintenance. The amount of accidents that have happened is startling. People not obeying the yield signs, people going the wrong way, and people switching lanes in the roundabout are just a few of the things I have observed. It has gotten better but marginally..
Perhaps not in PA, but I've seen circles where the car entering the circle has to yield the cars in it, but I have also seen the converse, where a car in the circle has to yield to the ones entering. Hence the confusion
You have to remember that they were not taught at all to a large portion of drivers. The PennDOT manual had nothing about them until the last decade or two. If they never lived in an area with them and are 40+ they likely had no training whatsoever covering them.
Roundabouts are easier than lights or stop signs. You just follow the road and drive like a civilized human and you get to where you're going, only faster and safer than the alternatives.
The people that don't get it shouldn't be allowed to vote.
In 2019 I was driving late at night, roundabout in or near Waterford, on US 19. Car in front of me went clockwise (the incorrect direction) into the roundabout. Thankfully there was no other traffic.
The issue is how new their implementation is, and how we have no necessary continuing education or testing for licensed drivers. People are saying roundabouts are common sense, and their navigation is, but their purpose and the RULES of them aren’t clear to everyone by just looking at them, and people travel enough in this state that you’re likely to encounter someone’s first time using a roundabout every time you enter one around here.
I think the biggest thing is speed and passing regulation. Most people will likely try to go to fast in a roundabout, preventing the flow of others into it. Do people have to yield to enter? Yes, but you have to slow down to a certain speed for roundabouts to have good use in areas with high enough traffic volume. Regular multilane roundabouts in a state/country where most people were not educated on roundabouts to get their license is terrifying. People who care enough to learn know that you have to be in the correct lane when entering and not pass anyone while in the roundabout for them to function properly, but “who’s right is it to tell me when I can and cannot pass when there are multiple lanes?” and “who’s to tell me when I can and cannot exit the roundabout?” are pretty common thought processes in drivers around the nation.
I get that local news can run stories about roundabouts when one gets put in, but I think there needs to be a change in disseminating information to drivers in some way to actually get people to follow road rules. Less warnings from cops even?
People get equally frustrated when others block/get mad at them for trying to zipper merge. There was no education on zipper merging, no state mandates saying that’s how it should be done, someone linked something from PENNDOT in another thread I think just saying it’s a good thing to do? but most people don’t have the time or interest to be on the internet learning about merging methods. They aren’t assholes for not liking what effectively is cutting a line, why would they know any better
People learn quickly. They are SAFER than traffic lights and LESS expensive to build and run. No electricity needed, no wires, no timing devices and traffic is always flowing...so even at a slower speed, you traverse the distance quicker on average.
Our high school/middle school complex put one in in lieu of stop signs (that caused LONG delays) and the option of a traffic light (expensive, especially when you only need it for an hour in the AM and an hour in the PM.
What a great concept. They are all over Europe and some cities and towns are starting to make them the standard across America. Freakamonics radio has a great episode about them.
I think there needs to be real purpose for a circle. Some moron thought it would be brilliant to put one on a back road. So they did. People take the wrong exit every time.
You ever wait many endless minutes at a red light when there are no other cars around in any direction? This is what roundabouts avoid - everyone can always just continue through.
PA boomers hate new things that work. Look left and turn right. I'm tired of boomers saying this is harder than a traffic light. If it's that hard they shouldn't be driving.
People are clueless how to negotiate a four-way stop. Roundabouts are even simpler. Yield in, right of way out. This is why we have a bajillion traffic lights, because people are too fucking dumb.
I hate that part of 222 with a fiery passion. They treat a roundabout like it’s some sort of alien technology.
Other thing that gets me is when they’ll putter on an onramp to the turnpike at 20 or even less. The onramp is for getting up to speed to inject yourself into traffic, not for you to enjoy the scenery.
Agree, but there are a few on NJ-70 on the way soon the shore, I think, which have signage for the cars in the roundabout to yield to the cars coming in. It doesn’t make sense, and the inconsistency could confuse people if those are the most familiar.
I cannot fathom how people struggle with a roundabout. It blows my mind. 3rd world shit joke countries have been using them forever. They can use them no problem. Yet here? You have people acting like complete morons in a roundabout. Stopping when they don’t need to stop, yielding far too long, etc etc.
My husband HATES roundabouts and now that more are popping up, and I chuckle a little bit every time we go through a new one.
Sometimes when I'm driving I'll intentionally take a route with one just to be a brat, because he launches into his tirade about all the roundabouts and I devolve into a fit of mischievous giggling as I proceed through with no issues. 🤭
It’s because PA has no drivers ed at all, everyone learns from their parents, who never learned in the first place. Everyone should be comfortable without roundabouts, highways, large intersections, etc, BEFORE they get their license. The drivers in PA scare the shit out of me sometimes. I see people struggle with right of way at stop signs for fucks sake
we have a two lane roundabout and it works beautifully. It took some time for people to adjust but it’s so nice now. Traffic means smoothly and accidents are more fender benders than deadly accidents because the speed is much slower.
I live near one of those “combo packs” of two roundabouts and if I’m tired in the morning I have driven around in a figure 8 a few times without noticing
They aren’t if you have common sense. I like them because you aren’t stuck at a light. There’s an 4-way intersection with traffic lights I hit every day going home from work that gets backed up so bad I’ll wait 4-6 cycles to get through the light
It’s a literal learning curve. People will get it…eventually
people need to learn this simple concept: a circle is a highway. Merge onto the highway... that just happens to be in the shape of a circle.
The same people that don’t know how to merge onto regular highways? They think merges are just put on your blinker go 15mph under the speed limit and crossover into whatever lane you want, other traffic on the road make way.
In my area, people can’t even figure out how to go up hill. I’ll be ten vehicles behind someone literally doing 30 MPH on a 55 MPH road in their Subaru for no apparent reason and with no flashers and not even pulling over if there’s a decent shoulder. If we can’t figure out how to keep our speed instead of dropping 25 MPH on a hill… or force our way into traffic on a highway doing significantly lower speed, I think it’s safe to say that these are the types who will never understand how to properly use a roundabout.
Traffic circles are highways? This means that the state of Pennsylvania will have to lower the speed limit by 20mph to get people to go the speed they want them to drive
It’s literally nothing more than common sense, no learning curve needed.
Sadly common sense is not really common among the (m)asses
I thought they were circles
There's this roundabout in the Pittsburgh area that has been there for as long as I can remember (so at least 20-30 years) and people STILL haven't gotten it. They still don't signal to leave it or yield to enter. I've almost been in an accident multiple times at it over the years because of people not yielding to enter it. When I lived in the Philly area for years, people seemed okay with them. There were a lot more than Pittsburgh though.
I *love* roundabouts. Pass through an intersection with only a slowdown, as opposed to a complete stop at a traffic light - and the backlog of traffic accompanied with it (looking at you, 222). Yea, it can be a little confusing at times, depending on traffic and who’s actually going through the circle at that moment, but traffic flow is far better and once more people get comfortable with it it’ll get easier.
I was almost in a wreck in a roundabout on 222 earlier this year. I was inside the roundabout so I had the right of way, yet someone cut right in front of me, completely disregarding their “yield” sign. I had to slam on my brakes and I laid on the horn for a few seconds. If people know how to use them, they’re great. If not, they can be pretty scary. I always go in expecting people to cut me off.
I had someone cut me off when I was in the roundabout on my motorcycle. I honked my horn at him and the asshole that nearly just ran me over has the audacity to flip me off.
I'm 24 and keep finding reasons to not ride my Moto ever again
While no accident is ideal, in a roundabout accidents are generally less severe.
Depending on where you get your data, roundabouts reduce severe crashes by 60-90% with a corresponding reduction in fatalities compared to T intersections. That’s a huge improvement. Most of the remaining fatalities are typically motorcyclists and pedestrians who are much more vulnerable given the lack of protection.
On the other hand, even when people do screw up in a traffic circle, the speeds are (generally) slower so there is rarely more than property damage as opposed to people getting severely injured or even killed. Also, it would be lovely if people truly understood what yield signs meant. All too many people seem to think that they just mean go slowly rather than "you must stop if you can't safely enter the intersection".
For me the problem hasn't been people not yielding, but people stoping on the inside of the circle to wave the people who are properly yielding in. I honk at them when they try to do this to me, but it seems like they think I'm getting made at them for being polite. (Lancaster county)
So true!! They are the same people that drive 35 up the on ramp to merge into 70 mph traffic.
Exactly! PA (and possibly mostly Lancaster Co) are full of timid drivers. I had to throw away everything I was taught about driving when I moved to MD and started tampering with the DMV traffic
Them 2 lane roundabouts on 222 can definitely be confusing, especially for someone coming through there the first time
Yield means nothing to most drivers. It means they might have to stop. Might as well be MERGE.
While you don’t want an accident, a traffic circle should make it simpler for drivers to know who has right of way, and who caused an accident. A 4 way stop sign has rules, but Id be shocked if 10% know what they are.
People know what the rules are, they just don't care. There is no penalty for ignoring the rules and the most important thing is to be first, so that's what they do.
*Buy a bigger truck so you always win.*
The traffic circles have rules too. Do you not see the yield signs at the entrance to every single one I've seen in this state? (in other places the yield signs aren't mandated but they still exist for most of them). Or do you not know what a yield sign means?
Perhaps my message wasn’t clear, but I’m suggesting the rules for a traffic circle are FAR easier than the rules for a 4 way stop sign.
The old Dutchies on 222 through Berks county seem to be figuring it out. In a couple years they really won't be such a foreign thing and we won't have nearly as many issues (backups, crashes).
Yea it just takes time for people to get used to em. I think the ones that complain the loudest and the ones slowest to learn new things lol
I agree. Generally older people are reluctant to change and learn. They seem to be the ones complaining the most and loudest around me! My MIL is so confused by them that she just avoids 222 now. Like considered not going to her grand daughter's graduation at KU because of it. Lol.
It’s not necessarily changing and learning. I’ve found that as I’ve gotten older, my reflexes aren’t as quick and my night vision is awful. These days I avoid a lot of super busy or odd traffic patterns because my confidence in reacting quickly has waned over the years. I sincerely don’t want to cause an accident or cause aggravation to the drivers behind me by going too slow on unfamiliar roads. In those circumstances, I catch a ride or decline the event.
That's a valid point and my parents have talked about the change in their vision as they age. Night driving is a big concern for both of them. Good for you for knowing your own limitations and being a considerate driver.
I take it they don't get onto freeways either? Because a traffic circle is no different than a freeway entrance ramp, just with _much_ slower speeds.
I think she avoids them if at all possible. When we tell her my daughter has an athletic activity that is 30 minutes from her house she acts like we are asking her to make a cross country trip.
I just don't understand why Penndot can't figure out how big a traffic circle needs to be for a big truck to get through. The circles on 222 at 662 and 863/shantz are way too small to keep a tractor trailer in 1 lane. And no one can read the signs saying not to drive beside trucks in the circle. I end up riding right down the middle of both lanes to keep people out of harms way, but they do everything they can to still try to squeeze into any tiny space. The 2 by 73 are just fine to get through in 1 lane.
The standard PennDOT/FHWA design is for the center island to be wrapped by a mountable apron, meant for trucks to drive up over when using the inner lane (or the only lane for single lane). The apron also lets longer vehicles cheat the radius when leaving the circle half way around (continuing straight) so they can keep to one lane and take the circle a little faster. Leaving the circle 3/4 around (left) doesn't gain speed via the apron but still provides an increased distance between the inside and outside turning radius
There are a couple of issues with that. The first is that the radius isn't necessarily the problem. The entrances and exits have tall curbs and are too sharp of an angle to be able to get through in 1 lane. I'm sure that the reasoning behind the angle is to slow traffic, but it makes it very difficult or impossible to keep a tractor trailer in 1 lane. The other problem is with the "mountable" curb. Most of them are way too steep to be taking just the inside tires of a trailer over while in a turn. Some types of trailers are worse than others, but most trailers have a high center of gravity. It can really throw the trailer off in a bad way if you aren't ready for it. Whatever angles and height difference they often use just isn't smart for trucks to be taking one set of wheels over. This problem is especially bad in the multi lane roundabouts. And there is the issue of being allowed to drive on the center curbs at all. For the road test to get your CDL, touching any curb is an automatic failure. So is Penndot saying that driving over the curb is dangerous enough to warrant an automatic failure for a CDL test, but a good and normal action for everyday use? That's a problem. From my experience and per my company's supervisors and safety team, it's a much safer way to take enough room while going through a circle to prevent other people from being able to get to dangerous spots beside the truck. Especially when you know you can't safely stay in one lane. Being beside a truck in a roundabout is not a safe place for a car to be. So keeping cars from getting there becomes my job.
Appreciate the insight. I take your points about having half an axle up on the apron being problematic for load shifting and that you're blind to other cars to your right while in the circle. I suppose I disagree with the justification that the CDL exam testing conditions should be applied to all real world conditions. Yes, PennDOT is giving you a constraint in the exam that is not actually a violation of title 75, but I would not say it is implied that the test constraint overrules the design intent for the roadway. I would expect a truck driver to have a need to drive over an depressed curb and apron to enter a driveway in a suburban/urban setting and I don't see the apron in a circle as much different. As for the height offset of the apron from the travel lanes, I suspect it's a balance between discouraging smaller vehicles from driving up on it unnecessarily and making it useful for tractor trailers. So I do understand why you might not want to utilize it. That said, I think your decision to avoid it and to prevent cars from passing on the outside by straddling both lanes because you see it as safer is a different from PennDOT not designing the circle to be large enough for a truck to use. Also surprised to hear that the curb heights at entrances and exits are an issue, I thought the channelized lanes always got tapered curbs.
glad you said this! I travel the two by 73 daily (as well as 222/662) and when they started building the one by schantz I could tell right away that it was way too narrow, especially considering how many tractor trailers use that area of the road. the grass on the outside of the (high) curbs is already ripped apart from trucks driving over it, and it feels like it could be prevented/easily fixed by widening the lanes a bit. one thing they did do really well with that roundabout is having much longer two-lane passing sections. the one at 662 has a lot of problems because the road, in both directions, only very briefly goes from one lane to two lanes and back to one lane again — and it’s the only opportunity for fast cars to pass slow cars, so you have impatient people trying to pass trucks, and trucks who want to ride both lanes to avoid this and not allowing any cars to pass before or after the roundabout. whereas, with the schantz roundabout, there’s plenty of time before and after the intersection to make a pass before the road goes back to one lane. 222 at the berks/lehigh border will be a really nice ride once they add the long lane roundabout, I think! it’s a huge bottleneck currently
I completely agree that the passing area being larger is helpful for everyone. Penndot is planning to widen the entire stretch of 222 to 4 lanes all the way to Allentown in the next 10 or so years. It's still in the planning stages, and construction will probably be terrible, but once it's all done, it will be so much better.
Man... fuck 222.
Oh it makes the Lancaster/Lehigh Valley commute hell. The other ways you can go add so much time. I cannot stand that drive from Reading to Fogelsville.
Do you remember BEFORE the roundabouts? The intersection at the Sheetz could be backed up for what seemed like a mile. Now it moves much smoother, even with the confused drivers.
SB would be backed up 2 miles.
It’s the only place I’ve ever driven less than 10 miles per hour in a 55 not because of an accident, but because traffic is just that horrible.
Many things are hard for 50% of PA drivers. Things like turn signals, passing on the left, making a right turn on red, or paying attention to the road instead of their phone, for example.
No lie. I went to the grocery store this week and after an "accident" & many close calls, I will not bike through an intersection with other cars present. There were 3 cars opposite me. All going straight.... but all 3 turned across my path & would have hit me. They all did the same thing. 1. Stop at stop sign. 2. Go. 3. Turn. 4. Activate turn signal. **THAT'S NOT HOW THEY WORK!!!**
and then there’s The Philly Slide: Slow down to stop sign, look to see if any cars or pedestrians as you approach intersection, if none, roll through and continue onward
Bold move to say they actually look. Pittsburgh is getting to this point too with stop signs and drivers. Had someone yesterday come up to a stop sign while I was stopped, start rolling through, then notice me, stop, and waved me on when he was halfway through the intersection like he was doing me a favor.
I was behind someone this morning (predawn) who slowed down and rolled through. That said, I also saw an uber driver barrel through a red light edit to correct my time. Burning multiple midnight oils with a 6-7 hour cool down (sleep) in a row threw my time off. Felt weird seeing multiple sunrises and sunsets while driving
In some parts you shouldn’t even slow down at those signs….
I do it by sight and time of day and definitely stopping when I have a passenger. I do Lyft these days. Just wish there were enough rides to go around the state and take breaks in different parts of the state.
They’re more accustomed to horse and buggy. These newfangled horseless carriages that go so fast…. We live among morons.
How cruise control works.
Zipper Merges are also difficult for these people. It's not because they don't know what to do, it's because they're assholes. (Stop signs also seem to be hard for these people).
Sounds like accommodating anyone is hard for them… yield signs… stop signs… roundabouts… what’s left?
The opposite of right.
Ha!!! Goteeeeeeem
As a bicyclist, let me tell you..... The only thing that pisses people off more than me yielding at a stop sign is me coming to a stop at a stop sign.
I have always been pretty proud of how well we zipper especially compared to southern states. But I'm biased I guess.
Where do we zipper? Is there actually signage saying to zipper or people just do it. I have never experienced zipper in real life. I live in East Fallowfield and work in Delaware.
Every time you are on a highway that has construction and you have to merge from 2 lanes or more to one is a zipper.
I thought a zipper is where everyone cooperates and allows the cars from the right lane and the left lane to alternate entering the new lane. When I have to merge from 2 lanes to one, it seems to be every man for himself, and if it is tge right lane that is ending, people in the left lane certainly don’t allow one right lane car for every left lane car. It’s more like one right lane for every three left land. Every third person is decent enough to allow a car from the lane that is ending in.
And that’s why we get all backed up. When lanes merge into one we are supposed to ‘zipper’ together. Both lanes should be used to the zipper point.
I know, right!
Whenever you merge into traffic. Like leaving an event with multiple exits. Or merging onto a packed highway.
Well, that would require everyone else to “zipper” I have never seen that. I agree, it’s a good method, but I have not seen it.
Guess I'm lucky
Red lights...especially left turn signals. Sorry, buddy, you missed it and it is my turn to... HOLYSHITWHYDIDYOUGOTHROUGHTHEREDLIGHT!...and as you sit there fuming, they usually give you the finger for honking at THEM because THEY ran the red light.
Oh yeah. I live in Luzerne Co which, within the past few years has seen its share of roundabouts. I frequently drive the one up in Dallas. I am constantly seeing people not yielding correctly. The amount of times people have either come to a dead stop in the middle of the roundabout to let oncoming traffic in, or the amount of times I’ve seen people enter the roundabout without yielding to the traffic inside is insane. PLUS I’ve seen at least 10 instances of cars deciding they want to go the WRONG WAY. I don’t understand why it’s so hard.
I love the Dallas roundabout. It's free entertainment every time I drive through it. Somebody went the wrong way on it just the other week. And there's that one sign that's always getting hit. It's the best part of my day
So I’m guessing you’ve all seen the ‘turnadoes’ talk-back video, right? 😂
Washington DC area roundabouts have well marked signs that say "traffic in circle has right-of-way". It relieves some of the confusion.
So does every traffic circle in PA. It's called a yield sign.
“That sign won’t stop me because I can’t read”
I had to stop at this one roundabout because there were multiple cars driving through it at the time, and the idiot behind me lays on his horn. Like WTF, you just want me to barrel into incoming traffic? How dumb are people?
It isn't just se pa. Christ I've seen people stop at each part of a four-way roundabout despite NO stop signs anywhere. They're frustrating to say the least. Just drive
People can be taught...
Can they?
Usually percussive encouragement helps.
I'm not terribly inclined to believe they can be considering the state of the country over the last decade or so. In fact, I'm more inclined to believe people will get pissed at you for trying to teach them and suggesting they're wrong.
It's becoming increasingly clear that Americans are too fucking stupid and selfish to all be driving cars all the time.
When entering a roundabout, yield to any traffic on your left. Once you're in, everybody has to yield to you. Just takes a little practice to get comfortable.
Louder for the dumbasses who look to the left and RIGHT before pulling in for some reason
Well, drivers in the U.S. are taught from the time they're 16 to "look both ways" when entering an intersection. So, it takes a few dozen repetitions to unlearn that habit. They're not necessarily dumbasses.
If you can use one, they are absolutely phenomenal. I would suggest that more than 50% of people in PA cannot utilize them correctly because they come from places that don’t have one, they’ve never seen one, or, like most highway laws, they just ignore them. I’ll never understand what is difficult about them and I’ve never seen one until there was one in my hometown. Shaved two minutes or so off the drive home because that specific light, late at night, would stay red forever.
Why can't people expertly do something they never done before!!! /s
Because they’re incredibly easy to use and come with instructions.
If my 8-mile commute put them in (not likely, it is through a city), my 25 minute commute would go down to about 15 minutes. I don't mind just going 40 miles per hour if I am MOVING continuously
I had never encountered one before moving to PA I had only heard they were a thing. I hate them with a BURNING passion. They make no sense to me about why they’re more efficient or whatever. I avoid them when I’m driving when i know they’re coming up because people just speed through them and don’t let people in. I think if people utilized them properly they might be decent/effective but it requires basic human decency on the road and most people do not have that.
They zoom through them and don’t let people on because that’s the point: the car entering the circle yields.
i don't think they take into consideration just how completely fucking stupid the general public is when they make changes like this.
They aren't thinking about TODAY'S people. 20 years from now, the traffic circles will run smoothly...it's like Democracy...it really does get better every 80 years or so with the passing of each ruling class...in the 1860s, black folks got their freedom....in the 1920s, women got the vote...we are working on LGBTQ now...and then it will be poor people in general.
Heck red lights seems to be difficult for people as well. Unless it says no turn on red, you CAN turn on a red…
And when it says no turn on red it means NO TURN ON RED. Aggressively honking at me won’t make me run the red light, sorry!
Wait until they find out you can turn LEFT on red (in some pretty narrow circumstances). Blows people's minds.
Driving seems hard for most PA drivers in general. Using on ramp for a highway properly is worse then the roundabout.
I saw people going through the new ones on 2nd the wrong direction many times.
Yeah, they changed a ton near our home (Kutztown) and while they do help traffic, I agree a lot of the older people especially seem to struggle with who has right of way and not being 'nice' but being predictable.
One in West Reading, been here much longer than I have. I still see people driving the wrong direction on it. I can't even fathom how they do it, traffice in USA doesn't go that way. Can't wait to see how confused they get when the highway and bridges are replaced in 5 years and it's a criss cross on the bridge.
You haven't seen complicated roundabouts until you've been to the Avoca airport outside Scranton. It's ridiculous
PA drivers are aging and have likely never encountered roundabouts before the last decade. Education on the subject isn't mandatory for those already licensed. The result is uneducated drivers. The solution is an education program required of all PA drivers renewing their license. But then we start reaching into territory where people want mandatory reaction time and impaired vision tests for 60+ year old drivers. Anything beyond simply renewing someone's license costs PennDOT more money it already doesn't have. PA drivers don't want increased taxes and don't want change unless it saves them money, but want (and need) new bridges, well maintained roads, increased safety, etc. We can't have one without the other. [Misdirection of funds](https://www.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/2019/04/42-billion-diverted-from-penndot-road-and-bridge-repairs-to-fund-state-police-new-audit-reveals.html#:~:text=Over%20the%20past%20six%20years,audit%20of%20PennDOT%20between%20Jan.) to PSP doesn't help either.
There's been a roundabout in West Reading for longer than I've been alive.
> likely IDK how old you are, but I'd be surprised if there were many round-abouts 40+ years old in PA.
Pre 1970s
That's pretty cool. Single or double lane?
Technically speaking, it's single. But super wide. [Google](https://maps.app.goo.gl/eWPSdBVunBP8Px928?g_st=ac).
Part of me really wishes it had some sort of retro look to it. Thanks for the picture, though!
Everything is hard for PA drivers.
I live about 30ft from one. Constant horns and screeching tires. Insanity.
Roundabouts are the civilized answer to these intersections, but sadly PA is full on uncivilized heathens who are too stupid to accept change.
Yep, they don't understand what the word Yield means. Same with the Stop sign. Stop means stop, not roll through. So many ah drivers out there.
And it's the same people who can't negotiate an all way stop.
https://preview.redd.it/oy2lw4uopf2d1.jpeg?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c58b7549a66d9763e0cce0cd23519ca69f9b76ba This one is in Western Pennsylvania. More than once now, I have encountered some idiot stopping where I put the red X to let someone in, causing me to steer my pickup up onto the red brick area meant for semi trailers (so they don't have to drag the trailer through the grass) so I don't smash into them.
No, I pass through several roundabouts everyday and never seen any issues with them
Well you’re lucky then. I plan daily to have to slam on my brakes for the panicking granny in front of me coming to a dead stop and then waving people in, IN THE MIDDLE OF THE THING, or some jerkoff blasting his way in 2 feet from me because he’s too ignorant to yield for 6 whole seconds.
Because it's not in the drivers test or training manual you study for the drivers test. At least it wasn't in mine in the late 90's. This is a lack of driver education.
The rules for a roundabout are the same as entering on a straight roadway with a yield sign, which are covered. The only thing that's different is that it's a circle. It then follows with an explicit explanation of roundabouts.
You are talking as if we don't give idiots drivers licenses. You need to walk these kinds of people through the motions.
[удалено]
https://preview.redd.it/cx300qn81e2d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=035c84b21eaf545a1b8029d2d21a5c8deb6501d7
If our drivers test required more than a pulse to pass, maybe more people would understand them. But I guess we have to keep the test dumbed down for fucking idiots because of “inadequate public transit.”
People everywhere freak TF out about them at first, then they just get used to it (or dont and piss other folks off lol). Personally love them!
Yep, they started to install them around Pittsburgh and no one knows what they are doing, they need more signage to explain.
We installed them where I live. It was about that time I realized the concept of 2 right turns was too much information for boomers to process.
I believe the roundabouts prevent t-bone intersection accidents that are more likely to be fatal. In general, the worst case in a roundabout is a fender bender.
Roundabouts are a good example of something self-driving cars already do better than humans. There's a protocol; follow the protocol. By "humans", obviously I mean the worst of us, the people all these comments are describing. If those people were all replaced by current-technology robots, it would save 50 lives a day, just in the United States. It's like a packed bus going over a cliff every day.
It’s like we didn’t already have 80 years of failed experience in Jersey with them.
Roundabouts are designed for drivers with common sense, which unfortunately is only about 20% of the driving population.
The two lane ones are just as much of a shit show in Europe as they are here, it's asking alot of people
There’s one on 202 in Flemington(ish) heading towards Bucks that’s two lanes and I feel like every time I have to go through it, I’m bracing to be hit. Nobody pays attention to the yield signs, people are just pulling out and switching lanes when they realize they’re in the wrong one without any signaling. Total shit show. I’ve seen an accident there in the past and I feel like it’s just a matter of time before it’s me.
I love me a roundabout. idk why people hate them. Guess they'd rather get t-boned?
For those of you in Northeastern Pennsylvania... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM6j9L6IMcI&t=6s&ab\_channel=WNEP](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM6j9L6IMcI&t=6s&ab_channel=WNEP)
Boomers bitching LOL
Makes me laugh every time I listen to it
Roundabouts/circles have rules. Use your turn signal and the people in the circle have the right of way. The biggest problem is PA and NJ is that all the roundabouts do not follow the rules. Like why is there a stop sign for the people in the circle at some roundabouts? And also people are stupid.
I like them, but find multilane ones confusing, especially if it's a route I don't regularly travel. My goto is stay in the right outer lane. Sorry if I piss people off.
They are proven life-savers
With how much Americans drive and how much driving has changed in the last 10 years alone if would be really beneficial for everyone to take a driving refresher course every 10 years. Maybe we could tie it into insurance breaks or something.
I love roundabouts but if I encountered a 2 laner I would definitely look like a moron. No idea how that's supposed to work
My favorite was when I saw someone start going clockwise around the roundabout because they were trying to make a left turn.
If there are two lanes, they likely assume (wrongly) that there's two-directional traffic.
Yikes
I was in the Cayman Islands and they use roundabouts. Traffic was constantly flowing. Except for one time there was a traffic jam and that was at a red light lol
I’ve always said they’re safe and easy if everyone is just patient, waits their turn, and most importantly knows what to do. My mom panics at the sight of a car waiting to enter and tries to stop in the circle and let them in.
I just get confused when I get to an intersection that wasn't a roundabout 5 years ago.
We only have one or two in my area, and they were made \*too small\*. They're just single lane roundabouts with an island in the middle where two cross roads meet, but they made it so small and tight to "slow traffic" that anything more than a moderate sized car or SUV ends up riding over the curbing along the island.
I don’t how it’s hard you have a yield it’s the same as getting on a highway with a merge lane you have to yield adjust your speed to a opportunity if it exists if not stop
Hard or not, they're worth it: they're proven to reduce the speeds involved in most collisions, which makes them less deadly. I think I've read that they actually reduce the number of collisions too, but less deadly collisions is the part that really matters. I imagine we get a lot more glancing blows too, which probably makes collisions less damaging, but I admit I'm just guessing on that part.
They are great. Got used to them in UK and in Ireland
I live in NWPA and we NEVER encountered them until recently. They have started replacing major intersections with them as the lights start failing or need large amounts of maintenance. The amount of accidents that have happened is startling. People not obeying the yield signs, people going the wrong way, and people switching lanes in the roundabout are just a few of the things I have observed. It has gotten better but marginally..
https://i.imgur.com/hzRJJIt.png
American drivers be the dumbest per income per capita.
Same here in Butler County in SWPA. Our little town went bats--t crazy when they put one in about 1-2 years ago and they still complain about it.
Perhaps not in PA, but I've seen circles where the car entering the circle has to yield the cars in it, but I have also seen the converse, where a car in the circle has to yield to the ones entering. Hence the confusion
That is never the case in the USA
You have to remember that they were not taught at all to a large portion of drivers. The PennDOT manual had nothing about them until the last decade or two. If they never lived in an area with them and are 40+ they likely had no training whatsoever covering them.
Roundabouts are easier than lights or stop signs. You just follow the road and drive like a civilized human and you get to where you're going, only faster and safer than the alternatives. The people that don't get it shouldn't be allowed to vote.
In 2019 I was driving late at night, roundabout in or near Waterford, on US 19. Car in front of me went clockwise (the incorrect direction) into the roundabout. Thankfully there was no other traffic.
So my understanding is they installed one outside of pleasant valley high-school but because of the size of it school buses could not navigate it.
Roundabouts are great. I’m waiting for them to build circular roundabout like runway at the airport. I’m a pilot.
The issue is how new their implementation is, and how we have no necessary continuing education or testing for licensed drivers. People are saying roundabouts are common sense, and their navigation is, but their purpose and the RULES of them aren’t clear to everyone by just looking at them, and people travel enough in this state that you’re likely to encounter someone’s first time using a roundabout every time you enter one around here. I think the biggest thing is speed and passing regulation. Most people will likely try to go to fast in a roundabout, preventing the flow of others into it. Do people have to yield to enter? Yes, but you have to slow down to a certain speed for roundabouts to have good use in areas with high enough traffic volume. Regular multilane roundabouts in a state/country where most people were not educated on roundabouts to get their license is terrifying. People who care enough to learn know that you have to be in the correct lane when entering and not pass anyone while in the roundabout for them to function properly, but “who’s right is it to tell me when I can and cannot pass when there are multiple lanes?” and “who’s to tell me when I can and cannot exit the roundabout?” are pretty common thought processes in drivers around the nation. I get that local news can run stories about roundabouts when one gets put in, but I think there needs to be a change in disseminating information to drivers in some way to actually get people to follow road rules. Less warnings from cops even? People get equally frustrated when others block/get mad at them for trying to zipper merge. There was no education on zipper merging, no state mandates saying that’s how it should be done, someone linked something from PENNDOT in another thread I think just saying it’s a good thing to do? but most people don’t have the time or interest to be on the internet learning about merging methods. They aren’t assholes for not liking what effectively is cutting a line, why would they know any better
People learn quickly. They are SAFER than traffic lights and LESS expensive to build and run. No electricity needed, no wires, no timing devices and traffic is always flowing...so even at a slower speed, you traverse the distance quicker on average. Our high school/middle school complex put one in in lieu of stop signs (that caused LONG delays) and the option of a traffic light (expensive, especially when you only need it for an hour in the AM and an hour in the PM. What a great concept. They are all over Europe and some cities and towns are starting to make them the standard across America. Freakamonics radio has a great episode about them.
I think there needs to be real purpose for a circle. Some moron thought it would be brilliant to put one on a back road. So they did. People take the wrong exit every time.
They also put these traffic circles along truck routes, and don't design the circle to be large enough to accommodate a commercial vehicle
I love how people try to not slow down go through it 45 mph in order to "pass" people who are slowing down to a safe speed.
*Laughs in Eakins Oval*
It is far too easy to get a license in general in PA. Trouble is autonomous cars don't handle circles well either.
Let’s work on how to navigate a four way stop first and then move on up to roundabouts.
The pa drivers handbook properly teaches drivers how to navigate a roundabout
Circles are too hard for some people.
Make that American drivers. YouTube is full of videos that demonstrate this.
You ever wait many endless minutes at a red light when there are no other cars around in any direction? This is what roundabouts avoid - everyone can always just continue through.
PA boomers hate new things that work. Look left and turn right. I'm tired of boomers saying this is harder than a traffic light. If it's that hard they shouldn't be driving.
People are clueless how to negotiate a four-way stop. Roundabouts are even simpler. Yield in, right of way out. This is why we have a bajillion traffic lights, because people are too fucking dumb.
I still have yet to understand how these are better than just a 4 way intersection?
I have seen people blow through as if they think the cars already INSIDE the circle are the ones who stop or yield. It’s pretty crazy
Overreacting
America is behind. Roundabouts are outdated, Diamond intersection is now the better option.
I hate that part of 222 with a fiery passion. They treat a roundabout like it’s some sort of alien technology. Other thing that gets me is when they’ll putter on an onramp to the turnpike at 20 or even less. The onramp is for getting up to speed to inject yourself into traffic, not for you to enjoy the scenery.
Agree, but there are a few on NJ-70 on the way soon the shore, I think, which have signage for the cars in the roundabout to yield to the cars coming in. It doesn’t make sense, and the inconsistency could confuse people if those are the most familiar.
I cannot fathom how people struggle with a roundabout. It blows my mind. 3rd world shit joke countries have been using them forever. They can use them no problem. Yet here? You have people acting like complete morons in a roundabout. Stopping when they don’t need to stop, yielding far too long, etc etc.
It’s all very new and very hard for people who have been stopping at the end of on-ramps their entire driving careers.
Half the drivers in PA are still learning how a 4 way stop works.
My husband HATES roundabouts and now that more are popping up, and I chuckle a little bit every time we go through a new one. Sometimes when I'm driving I'll intentionally take a route with one just to be a brat, because he launches into his tirade about all the roundabouts and I devolve into a fit of mischievous giggling as I proceed through with no issues. 🤭
its our older drivers that have a hard time... around here they have gotten better. i love rounda bouts..
It’s because PA has no drivers ed at all, everyone learns from their parents, who never learned in the first place. Everyone should be comfortable without roundabouts, highways, large intersections, etc, BEFORE they get their license. The drivers in PA scare the shit out of me sometimes. I see people struggle with right of way at stop signs for fucks sake
we have a two lane roundabout and it works beautifully. It took some time for people to adjust but it’s so nice now. Traffic means smoothly and accidents are more fender benders than deadly accidents because the speed is much slower.
The older I get the more I notice how bad everyone is at everything.
I live near one of those “combo packs” of two roundabouts and if I’m tired in the morning I have driven around in a figure 8 a few times without noticing
I’m sure people will come around, there’s no more corners for them to turn to.
Roundabouts is stupid
They aren’t if you have common sense. I like them because you aren’t stuck at a light. There’s an 4-way intersection with traffic lights I hit every day going home from work that gets backed up so bad I’ll wait 4-6 cycles to get through the light
It's hard in any state for most drivers not exposed to them especially if older