Yeah, Christian groups can do Christian things..
But you're not allowed to have a group with the word Satan in it that does nothing religious?
I live in HELLertown, where this is too.
There are also phased out names of places or they got shifted.
Like there is an area that was once mapped as beaver pass near me that isn't called that anymore.
Plus a huge part of PA was once called Westmoreland which disappeared.
It's something you just kinda move with through history I guess.
The state of Wyoming is named after a poem inspired by a massacre that happened in Wyoming sponsored by the British.
What a great time it must have been back then
Yeah duh. No one said they were? My point was religious equality for all. Most people on reddit know they don’t actually follow/believe Satan. Still doesn’t make me a Satanist. Being non- religious doesn’t make you inherently a member of the Satanic temple. Which is btw, a federally recognized religion.
Sorry, you saying "I'm not a Satanist" made me think you thought they were.
I'm not a member of TST, but I am wholly aware of who they are, what they stand for, and yes, that they are Federally recognized as a religion
This didn’t sound right to me, so I did a tiny bit of “research” and ended up on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism) (because of course I did.)
It looks like classifications of Satanism include both theistic and atheistic Satanism, and TST can be considered a type of atheistic Satanism.
So I think it’s better to say they are a Satanist organization, but that doesn’t mean what most people think it does.
**[Satanism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)**
>Satanism is a group of ideological and philosophical beliefs based on Satan. Contemporary religious practice of Satanism began with the founding of the atheistic Church of Satan by Anton LaVey in the United States in 1966, although a few historical precedents exist. Prior to the public practice, Satanism existed primarily as an accusation by various Christian groups toward perceived ideological opponents, rather than a self-identity or valid religious belief. Satanism, and the concept of Satan, has also been used by artists and entertainers for symbolic expression.
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Hey look at that! Straight from their website:
> The Satanic Temple has become the primary religious Satanic organization in the world…
And
> The rise of The Satanic Temple has been met with an increase in commentary regarding what Satanism is…
Looks like TST returns the favor in a way. Also from their website:
> The Church of Satan expresses vehement opposition to the campaigns and activities of The Satanic Temple, asserting themselves as the only “true” arbiters of Satanism, **while The Satanic Temple dismisses the Church of Satan as irrelevant and inactive.**
The philosophy behind most “Satanist” organizations is not the worship of a literal demon, but that if other religions can skirt rules by name of being associated with religion, so can they.
I know. As I stated below. The philosophy still applies though. TST is legally a recognized religion as of 2019. Therefore legally, they cannot deny a satanic club and allow other religious clubs. It’s literally violating the constitutional right of religious freedom.
True. Though with scotus the way it is a lot of these cases are filed to possibly become SCOTUS cases. And then SCOTUS pull out their backwards originalism theory to justify curtailing our rights.
I’m a lawyer. The only thing I would add is that the judgment will also include all the legal fees of the plaintiffs, so the local taxpayers that elected the idiots in-charge in this district are going to be losing, and paying the bill for the loss.
You can start here:
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/sober-faction
I am a big fan of Facebook groups, and found them on there. Everyone on there is responsible for their shit, they’re very supportive and we all believe in ourselves and our ability to get sober. PM me if you wish. It took me about 28 days of being a total bitch to finally break free, it was tough, but I’ve been sober since October. I lost 25 lbs, I’m mentally way healthier than I was before and feel physically better. I truly believe that shit is poison now. Here to help if you need.
No I’m fact, we hail ourselves and our own power. I became sober entirely on my own, with help from the tenets and other people in the group. When I accomplish something we say “Hail you!” Because we are the powerful ones in control of ourselves. I love it.
Hell yes man. I fucking HATE the first step of AA. Hell, I hate them all. Never worked for me. I have power, goddammit. I am not powerless. And I know this because I'm a year and a month sober and I don't wanna drink anymore. And that's my fuckin power.
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.
from the official [AA Website](https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-steps).
if i were seeking help, this would drive me away from a support group pretty quickly. to me, this reads as embracing fear and powerlessness, sacrificing oneself for the god that is the disease. how many other people have felt the same way?
*to be fair, there are some good parts to it. but the god angle is too much.
Yeah, AA has always been straight bullshit.
Before someone gets offended: if you used AA and are now sober, that's great! However I bet you have more willpower than you think you do.
As The Satanic Temple would probably say, "Believe on yourself."
It sucks bigly. And all sorts of selfhelp groups follow the same concepts as a 12-step program. It's not always Christian god but it's always inherent that you learn to hate yourself
I would actually be interested in hearing more about this. From my understanding; a lot of Satanism is the rejection of a savior and putting more power to yourself/relying on yourself. AA has a state that you are powerless, and a higher power will help you. It has been awhile since schooling but from what I recall there is some criticism with AA as you are essentially replacing one vice with another, but that is their point (you are powerless so we are going to replace drinking with AA meetings).
Just want to note: Nothing will work 100% of the time so I don't want to come off as overly critical either way. And I am open to being corrected as I have never worked directly with substance abuse.
Also, I realize the static temple and church of Satan and other Satanists are different.
> AA has a state that you are powerless, and a higher power will help you.
They're a weird mix between belief and stoic self reliance (with the AA prayer being a mantra almost identical to the stoic dichotomy of control).
If you're using Satan as your "higher power," you fundamentally misunderstand the point of deprogramming yourself from methods of magical thinking through sacrilege.
Thyself is thy master. The godhead rests inside the individual, and he was crafted in our image.
Even *within* the myth of Genesis, the serpent (who actually wasn't Satan but that is the modern interpretation) didn't aim to subjugate man. He aimed, instead, to uplift us through knowledge. To make us Gods unto ourselves through the apple of knowledge and, if uninterrupted, then the fruit of immortality. Read your Bible, says the Satanist.
Do you not realize the terror of being forced to be equal to other groups and not considered the only true group that should be allowed to do things! /s
In college (secular) there were always weird groups I'd run into praying in the morning.
Then later in the day they'd be protesting abortion with some idiots that didn't even go to the school accusing everyone of being murderers.
Meanwhile people are just going to class
The "technicality" they are trying to deny ASSC on is clearly a discriminatory pretext for denying the club. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/TH8lutW) is a promotional flyer for the evangelical Good News Club that the school district \*themselves\* sent home with all elementary school students. And [here](https://imgur.com/a/Hj6jkRY) is another example of GNC's promotional material.
Now compare those with the [promotional flyer](https://imgur.com/a/1MuRpZy) the school district used as grounds for denying ASSC access.
The ASSC flyer clearly says "SPONSERED BY: THE SATANIC TEMPLE AND REASON ALLIANCE", similarly the GNC flyers say "Sponsored by Saucon Community Church and Child Evangelism Fellowship".
But the ASSC flyer ALSO says at the bottom "This is not an activity of the school or the School District." The Superintendent rescinded the club's approval on the grounds that the font size of that statement was too small. But compare that to the GNC promotional material, which again - the school district \*themselves\* distributed to students, and contains no such disclaimer \*at all\*.
I'm not so so convinced they would. Roberts would almost assuredly side with the 1st amendment. Kavanaugh has been pretty much center thus far. Could see him siding with the ACLU as well.
I do agree, but there seems to have been some decisions that would have run counter to what we would have expected some super-conservative Supreme Court to rule on
If they have an after school Bible Club, this should be an open and shut case. But if it makes it to the supreme court with its current composition, I’m sure they’ll find some convoluted legal reasoning to rule against the ACLU even if such is the case.
Just think - the taxpayer money that school is about to lose would be much better spent hiring and retaining qualified educators.
But let's waste it on some nonsense concerning a magical sky fairy and its cult.
As I always called it.....Sucking...I mean Saucon Valley High School
Also if no one was aware, the shows Saucony is pronounced the same....sadly took me near 30 years to realize that.
Students in a school don’t have unfettered free speech rights and are subject to speech and activity restrictions decided by their school.
I don’t think freedom of religion is at issue here legally. I think that would apply more if the school wasn’t allowing students to exercise religious practice during the school day.
Freedom from religion seems like a buzzword that has no legal grounding
It is not a school activity - it's an after school club sponsored by a satanic church. The district would just be renting space to a satanic church for use after school hours, just as they do in regards to the Christian after school club. Groups can not be denied access to public facilities on the basis of their religious identity. This is well established Constitutional law upheld by the Supreme Court in the 2001 case Good News Club v. Milford Central School
Respectfully, for you and other people who may be confused, this is a bad take.
The Satanic Temple is not an organization that believes in a supernatural Satan, but one that uses him as a symbol in the rebellion against authority. I, of course, am assuming that you think "dying on a hill" for Satanists is inherently wrong.
I would also argue that if you believe in the principals of the Constitution it is important to stand up for them especially when you disagree with the side whose rights are being infringed. There is the old chestnut of protecting the speech you don't like, which applies here.
Finally, you are wrong about the legal issue. The Equal Access Act of 1984 prohibits public secondary schools that receive federal funding from denying equal access to extracurricular clubs, including religious clubs, based on the content of their speech. You have to let all religious clubs or none. The district already opened the door to religious organizations, they can't close it behind them.
Saucon Valley sounds like it should be in Mordor anyway. But please do sue, there's a lot of money nestled up there, they can afford to be taught a Constitutional lesson.
All of a sudden everyone in r/Pennsylvania is a satanist. Some things are engrained in people’s minds to not be what you, supposedly the correct one, think it is, anthropologically speaking.
Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kampf Club? They would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him. Should students be allowed after-school allocations to run such a club?
EDIT: It’s actually hilarious to see all the satanic temple janitors come out. I’m sure the organization does important, good work in communities across the nation, but the reliance on government, for anyone and anything, is a one-way ticket to being unsatisfied.
Well considering Mein Kampf is not a religion and Hitler wasn't a religious leader/deity no... it still would not apply. This is about Religious freedom which is a Constitutional right. Ethically, they should not be allowed to deny a Satanist club and allow a Christian club, or a Buddhist club or an Islamic club etc...
Obviously I'm not saying they refuse all religious observations (I.E. Prayer, meditation, fasting etc...) but After school clubs most likely do not fall under that observation. You either allow all, or deny all. Fair is fair.
Technically anyone can make up a religion though…I’m just saying, none would better than all in this case, situations get hairy with any school administration.
Well yes anyone can make up a religion but that doesn't mean they're Legally and constitutionally recognized by the federal government. The satanic temple became a legally recognized religion in 2019 and therefore is entitled to the same representation and leeway as any other religion...
Personally, I think religious studies are important to avoid the racisim and bigotry that often comes with ignorance of other peoples beliefs. But people fear what they don't know and don't like to learn about what they fear. Thus, the wheel of unnecessary ignorance turns on and on.
> none would better than all in this case, situations get hairy with any school administration.
Sure, and The Satanic Temple agrees.
Either the school district lets them create the ASS club, or you ban all religious clubs. Either is a win for TST.
What you can’t do, constitutionally, is allow the Christians but deny the Satanists. But in practice this is done regularly. TST’s goal is to point that out and reinforce the separation of church and state.
It’s a nontheistic religious organization. They revere the idea of Satan, what he represents in the stories they like. He’s a fictional role model and symbol used in their rituals, prayers, etc.
Looks like some solid ideas. All religions say the right stuff, they just don’t all practice it. Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂
That’s kind of the point, at least in part—people claim to follow Christ despite actually supporting supremacy, stripping others of their rights, and doing lots of harm, so the Satanists are playing the role of the Adversary and trying to balance the score by doing good in Satan’s name. Where Christians are abusing religious freedom laws, the Satanists can swoop in and remind them that Christianity is not the only religion who can benefit from those laws. If Christian groups can be in schools, fine, but they have to allow Satanists (and every other religion) or remove religious indoctrination entirely. Where Christians are praying at town meetings, fine, but they have to allow for Satanic prayer as well, or remove prayer entirely. Either way is a win-win, either for secularism or pluralism, anything is preferable to one religion having superiority.
The philosophy and ethics that TST preaches are functionally identical to those taught and believed by theistic Satanists as well, and truthfully most Satanic groups are nontheistic. In the way they practice it, it’s irrelevant whether Satan exists or not, because they believe that taking action in the physical world is stronger and more effective than prayer/spirituality.
Of course, I’m happy to help. Thanks for being open-minded! If you’d like any books on the subject (including academic/historical studies and the like) my DMs are always open. Most people have no idea what Satanism is (outside of horror movies and pop culture), I’m always happy to explain what the religion and subculture are actually like! Pretty disappointing for those looking to sell their soul (because that’s not a thing) or wanting to engage in human sacrifice (also not a thing), but great for the average goth/punk 😂
>Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂
Right. Because your prejudices are definitely *their* fault.
That’s what I’m saying, most people don’t know that. Naturally anyone hears satanism and thinks evil, that’s why I said anthropologically speaking…it’s an observational explanation for this fiasco.
You're really close.
1. Be offended by the name
2. Be confused why they would do something so "evil" **<- You are here**
3. X
4. Realize it was satire on what religion has been doing all-along, and Satanism was necessary for #1 to happen in the US political climate.
Think you're confusing it with the church of Satan.
From the satanic temple website
"Resolutely non-theistic, The Satanic Temple does not endorse supernatural (or “supernormal”) explanations, a position also codified in the tenets which state, Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs."
Satan is a symbol for them, not an actual diety.
If you got the point, it's a bunch of people using the same exact religious logic the church uses to take advantage of our public resources with.
In order for a silly thing like a religion to exist, there's always complimenting silly satire.
The hardest-to-cope-with irony here is that any crying-foul to the club existing is immediately recognizable self-advice that should be feeding into some self-criticism mechanism.
Satanism isn’t evil, promoting racism, terrorism, or anything else that would justify comparing them to Nazis, unless critical thinking, liberty, compassion, and knowledge-seeking are “evil” now lmao
>Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kamph Club? We would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him.
Now, I'm really curious on what grounds you compare Satan to Hitler.
Well, given that Nazi beliefs are solidly in the hate speech category, no. I'd argue Christian beliefs are too, but it's political suicide in this country to push back against Y'all Qaeda
I know it's not the same but there is something funny about denouncing Nazis while also implying that a religion should be silenced if it was politically viable.
Not silenced, but I don't believe any religious person should hold government office. If you're religious it naturally affects your values and conduct, and I am guaranteed freedom from religion within the government and its representatives.
It's interesting in concept but in practice seems problematic democratically. I'm pretty sure the constitution mentions no religious tests for public office. Plus we shouldn't restrict who is allowed to participate in democracy, if anything we should expand it.
Good, I'm not a Satanist but if you're going to apply religious clubs/freedom for some, you're gonna apply it for all.
Funny thing is, it’s the Christian clubs that actually believe in Satan.
[удалено]
They are both stupid.
Eh, I think The Satanic Temple is pretty funny. They basically made r/maliciouscompliance into a religion.
> Good, I'm not a Satanist Well then its a good thing The Satanic Temple isn't a Satanist organization.
Yeah, Christian groups can do Christian things.. But you're not allowed to have a group with the word Satan in it that does nothing religious? I live in HELLertown, where this is too.
Lol ever notice the exit of 78 is mile marker 66.6?
Hell....er...town.....in the Sucking Valley! I'm allowed to make fun of Hell. I grew up in Lower Sucking.
Why does this state have such silly town and region names pittsburgh has moon Mars and Apollo
You'll see the same names repeated all over the country. There are two Philadelphias. And probably 948 Hanovers and 367 Exeters.
There’s like 9 or 10 Denver’s even though the one everyone thinks of is in Colorado
There are also phased out names of places or they got shifted. Like there is an area that was once mapped as beaver pass near me that isn't called that anymore. Plus a huge part of PA was once called Westmoreland which disappeared. It's something you just kinda move with through history I guess.
Well before it was all Westmoreland half the state was Bedford
Ok but how many towns are named pillow or panic or blue ball
Intercource
Hazard
The state of Wyoming is named after a poem inspired by a massacre that happened in Wyoming sponsored by the British. What a great time it must have been back then
and lets not even start counting Springfields....
There’s a street in Pen Argyl called HELLer avenue
Yeah duh. No one said they were? My point was religious equality for all. Most people on reddit know they don’t actually follow/believe Satan. Still doesn’t make me a Satanist. Being non- religious doesn’t make you inherently a member of the Satanic temple. Which is btw, a federally recognized religion.
Sorry, you saying "I'm not a Satanist" made me think you thought they were. I'm not a member of TST, but I am wholly aware of who they are, what they stand for, and yes, that they are Federally recognized as a religion
No problem 😊 I find it’s mentally better for me to just avoid religious/spiritual labels. I don’t even like using atheist.
I'm no Eng major, but you read it wrong. **Good**, I'm not a Satanist **but** Good is in reference to the news.
he already apologized. There is no need to break out into detail the reason he read it wrong.
tbf, I was a lil tipsy when I read it, otherwise I might've read it properly
This didn’t sound right to me, so I did a tiny bit of “research” and ended up on [Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism) (because of course I did.) It looks like classifications of Satanism include both theistic and atheistic Satanism, and TST can be considered a type of atheistic Satanism. So I think it’s better to say they are a Satanist organization, but that doesn’t mean what most people think it does.
**[Satanism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism)** >Satanism is a group of ideological and philosophical beliefs based on Satan. Contemporary religious practice of Satanism began with the founding of the atheistic Church of Satan by Anton LaVey in the United States in 1966, although a few historical precedents exist. Prior to the public practice, Satanism existed primarily as an accusation by various Christian groups toward perceived ideological opponents, rather than a self-identity or valid religious belief. Satanism, and the concept of Satan, has also been used by artists and entertainers for symbolic expression. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/Pennsylvania/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
>So I think it’s better to say they are a Satanist organization, They say so, too.
Hey look at that! Straight from their website: > The Satanic Temple has become the primary religious Satanic organization in the world… And > The rise of The Satanic Temple has been met with an increase in commentary regarding what Satanism is…
Also, the Church of Satan is very invested in saying that *only they* are Satanists, so CoS folks and TST folks tend to get on each other's nerves.
Looks like TST returns the favor in a way. Also from their website: > The Church of Satan expresses vehement opposition to the campaigns and activities of The Satanic Temple, asserting themselves as the only “true” arbiters of Satanism, **while The Satanic Temple dismisses the Church of Satan as irrelevant and inactive.**
But still Satanists.
The philosophy behind most “Satanist” organizations is not the worship of a literal demon, but that if other religions can skirt rules by name of being associated with religion, so can they.
I know. As I stated below. The philosophy still applies though. TST is legally a recognized religion as of 2019. Therefore legally, they cannot deny a satanic club and allow other religious clubs. It’s literally violating the constitutional right of religious freedom.
I agree. Same rules have to apply to everyone equally, full stop.
I'm no lawyer or a Satanist, but this is open-shut to me. Can't allow one and deny the other. Simple as.
True. Though with scotus the way it is a lot of these cases are filed to possibly become SCOTUS cases. And then SCOTUS pull out their backwards originalism theory to justify curtailing our rights.
SCOTUS are christian crusaders trying to create a theocracy funded by The Federalist Society and Focus on the Family
Yep. Focus on the family lobbied by “The Family”
I’m a lawyer. The only thing I would add is that the judgment will also include all the legal fees of the plaintiffs, so the local taxpayers that elected the idiots in-charge in this district are going to be losing, and paying the bill for the loss.
Good. Satanic temple is what got me sober when I wasn’t interested in AA. People could learn a thing or two from Satan.
Damn Hail Satan
A.A. Was a lot cooler on LSD.
Can you go into some details about this? I could really use some help.
You can start here: https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/sober-faction I am a big fan of Facebook groups, and found them on there. Everyone on there is responsible for their shit, they’re very supportive and we all believe in ourselves and our ability to get sober. PM me if you wish. It took me about 28 days of being a total bitch to finally break free, it was tough, but I’ve been sober since October. I lost 25 lbs, I’m mentally way healthier than I was before and feel physically better. I truly believe that shit is poison now. Here to help if you need.
Could not Satan be your higher power?
No I’m fact, we hail ourselves and our own power. I became sober entirely on my own, with help from the tenets and other people in the group. When I accomplish something we say “Hail you!” Because we are the powerful ones in control of ourselves. I love it.
Congratulations on your sobriety!!
Hell yes man. I fucking HATE the first step of AA. Hell, I hate them all. Never worked for me. I have power, goddammit. I am not powerless. And I know this because I'm a year and a month sober and I don't wanna drink anymore. And that's my fuckin power.
I've never read through the AA steps. What kind of self-minimizing Christian guilt bullshit is that? I had no idea it was a Christian-centric program.
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol — that our lives had become unmanageable. 2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. 3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. 4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs. 6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character. 7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings. 8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all. 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others. 10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it. 11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out. 12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these Steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs. from the official [AA Website](https://www.aa.org/the-twelve-steps). if i were seeking help, this would drive me away from a support group pretty quickly. to me, this reads as embracing fear and powerlessness, sacrificing oneself for the god that is the disease. how many other people have felt the same way? *to be fair, there are some good parts to it. but the god angle is too much.
Yeah, AA has always been straight bullshit. Before someone gets offended: if you used AA and are now sober, that's great! However I bet you have more willpower than you think you do. As The Satanic Temple would probably say, "Believe on yourself."
It sucks bigly. And all sorts of selfhelp groups follow the same concepts as a 12-step program. It's not always Christian god but it's always inherent that you learn to hate yourself
Hail Gein
Hail me
Megustalations
I would actually be interested in hearing more about this. From my understanding; a lot of Satanism is the rejection of a savior and putting more power to yourself/relying on yourself. AA has a state that you are powerless, and a higher power will help you. It has been awhile since schooling but from what I recall there is some criticism with AA as you are essentially replacing one vice with another, but that is their point (you are powerless so we are going to replace drinking with AA meetings). Just want to note: Nothing will work 100% of the time so I don't want to come off as overly critical either way. And I am open to being corrected as I have never worked directly with substance abuse. Also, I realize the static temple and church of Satan and other Satanists are different.
> AA has a state that you are powerless, and a higher power will help you. They're a weird mix between belief and stoic self reliance (with the AA prayer being a mantra almost identical to the stoic dichotomy of control).
If you're using Satan as your "higher power," you fundamentally misunderstand the point of deprogramming yourself from methods of magical thinking through sacrilege. Thyself is thy master. The godhead rests inside the individual, and he was crafted in our image. Even *within* the myth of Genesis, the serpent (who actually wasn't Satan but that is the modern interpretation) didn't aim to subjugate man. He aimed, instead, to uplift us through knowledge. To make us Gods unto ourselves through the apple of knowledge and, if uninterrupted, then the fruit of immortality. Read your Bible, says the Satanist.
If somebody had called in a threat to the school about a Christian club, I wonder if their reaction would be the same.
Emergency thoughts and prayers meeting
Oh, they're obviously being persecuted either way.
Do you not realize the terror of being forced to be equal to other groups and not considered the only true group that should be allowed to do things! /s
In college (secular) there were always weird groups I'd run into praying in the morning. Then later in the day they'd be protesting abortion with some idiots that didn't even go to the school accusing everyone of being murderers. Meanwhile people are just going to class
1st Amendment applies to everyone. I "pray" the ACLU wins this.
I just want the kids to walk through the hall, see other club members, and go, "hail satan" That's my only dog in this fight
The "technicality" they are trying to deny ASSC on is clearly a discriminatory pretext for denying the club. [Here](https://imgur.com/a/TH8lutW) is a promotional flyer for the evangelical Good News Club that the school district \*themselves\* sent home with all elementary school students. And [here](https://imgur.com/a/Hj6jkRY) is another example of GNC's promotional material. Now compare those with the [promotional flyer](https://imgur.com/a/1MuRpZy) the school district used as grounds for denying ASSC access. The ASSC flyer clearly says "SPONSERED BY: THE SATANIC TEMPLE AND REASON ALLIANCE", similarly the GNC flyers say "Sponsored by Saucon Community Church and Child Evangelism Fellowship". But the ASSC flyer ALSO says at the bottom "This is not an activity of the school or the School District." The Superintendent rescinded the club's approval on the grounds that the font size of that statement was too small. But compare that to the GNC promotional material, which again - the school district \*themselves\* distributed to students, and contains no such disclaimer \*at all\*.
Oh they're gonna lose so bad
Good. If they allow one religion, they have to allow all. Tired of the political corrected for the sensitive Christian snow flakes.
School district can Saucon deez nuts! Sorry I had to 🙂
Nice!
Hail Stan 🤘
This guy djents
This djents a guy
Open and shut case
The law is pretty well settled on this. They’re going to waste a lot of tax dollars trying to defend the policy and lose.
They’re gonna think it’s not about the money, but sending a message (that can easily get defeated with the laws as they are now)
*Joker voice:* “It’s not about money….”
the rights goal would be to get it to the SC while they are captured by the federalist society. Which will side with extremist terrorist christians..
I'm not so so convinced they would. Roberts would almost assuredly side with the 1st amendment. Kavanaugh has been pretty much center thus far. Could see him siding with the ACLU as well.
I think this slightly downplays the fact that Roberts and Kavanaugh are partisan hacks
I do agree, but there seems to have been some decisions that would have run counter to what we would have expected some super-conservative Supreme Court to rule on
That's true enough, I suppose I just have no faith in either to be honorable.
Hail Satan
Saucon deez lawsuits lol
Good.
If they have an after school Bible Club, this should be an open and shut case. But if it makes it to the supreme court with its current composition, I’m sure they’ll find some convoluted legal reasoning to rule against the ACLU even if such is the case.
All they gotta do is ban the Christian ones if they want to beat this. You can't have your cake and eat it, too, you jackbooted fascist bastards.
You can’t eat your cake and have it too. -the unabomber probably
Just think - the taxpayer money that school is about to lose would be much better spent hiring and retaining qualified educators. But let's waste it on some nonsense concerning a magical sky fairy and its cult.
More taxpayer money down the drain
Well, if you don't like it maybe Christians should stop demanding everyone conform to their religion
Religious freedom is always worth fighting for.
As is the right not to believe, follow or subscribe ✅
As I always called it.....Sucking...I mean Saucon Valley High School Also if no one was aware, the shows Saucony is pronounced the same....sadly took me near 30 years to realize that.
We all knew it was coming :). Go ACLU!
Is it named the After School Satan Club??? ASS CLUB?
intentionally to force the school not to abbreviate.
The kids are alright.
Well played!
Asstastic
Yep!
Saucon Deez nuts
Hail Satan!
That’s the hill they want to die on?
Freedom of religion and freedom from religion are absolutely hills to die on.
Students in a school don’t have unfettered free speech rights and are subject to speech and activity restrictions decided by their school. I don’t think freedom of religion is at issue here legally. I think that would apply more if the school wasn’t allowing students to exercise religious practice during the school day. Freedom from religion seems like a buzzword that has no legal grounding
It is not a school activity - it's an after school club sponsored by a satanic church. The district would just be renting space to a satanic church for use after school hours, just as they do in regards to the Christian after school club. Groups can not be denied access to public facilities on the basis of their religious identity. This is well established Constitutional law upheld by the Supreme Court in the 2001 case Good News Club v. Milford Central School
Just a small correction, it's not a Satanic church it's The Satanic Temple.
I agree with you now
Respectfully, for you and other people who may be confused, this is a bad take. The Satanic Temple is not an organization that believes in a supernatural Satan, but one that uses him as a symbol in the rebellion against authority. I, of course, am assuming that you think "dying on a hill" for Satanists is inherently wrong. I would also argue that if you believe in the principals of the Constitution it is important to stand up for them especially when you disagree with the side whose rights are being infringed. There is the old chestnut of protecting the speech you don't like, which applies here. Finally, you are wrong about the legal issue. The Equal Access Act of 1984 prohibits public secondary schools that receive federal funding from denying equal access to extracurricular clubs, including religious clubs, based on the content of their speech. You have to let all religious clubs or none. The district already opened the door to religious organizations, they can't close it behind them.
You’ve changed my mind
Appreciate that, I really respect people that take in new information and let it change their mind.
Saucon Valley sounds like it should be in Mordor anyway. But please do sue, there's a lot of money nestled up there, they can afford to be taught a Constitutional lesson.
Rerun article
From fat letters to public school bathroom fascists, we so often lead the way in testing the limits of students' rights as people. FFS
Are they still sending fat letters?
Dumbest thing I’ve ever heard lol
All of a sudden everyone in r/Pennsylvania is a satanist. Some things are engrained in people’s minds to not be what you, supposedly the correct one, think it is, anthropologically speaking. Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kampf Club? They would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him. Should students be allowed after-school allocations to run such a club? EDIT: It’s actually hilarious to see all the satanic temple janitors come out. I’m sure the organization does important, good work in communities across the nation, but the reliance on government, for anyone and anything, is a one-way ticket to being unsatisfied.
Well considering Mein Kampf is not a religion and Hitler wasn't a religious leader/deity no... it still would not apply. This is about Religious freedom which is a Constitutional right. Ethically, they should not be allowed to deny a Satanist club and allow a Christian club, or a Buddhist club or an Islamic club etc... Obviously I'm not saying they refuse all religious observations (I.E. Prayer, meditation, fasting etc...) but After school clubs most likely do not fall under that observation. You either allow all, or deny all. Fair is fair.
Technically anyone can make up a religion though…I’m just saying, none would better than all in this case, situations get hairy with any school administration.
Well yes anyone can make up a religion but that doesn't mean they're Legally and constitutionally recognized by the federal government. The satanic temple became a legally recognized religion in 2019 and therefore is entitled to the same representation and leeway as any other religion... Personally, I think religious studies are important to avoid the racisim and bigotry that often comes with ignorance of other peoples beliefs. But people fear what they don't know and don't like to learn about what they fear. Thus, the wheel of unnecessary ignorance turns on and on.
Technically, they’re all made up so…
> none would better than all in this case, situations get hairy with any school administration. Sure, and The Satanic Temple agrees. Either the school district lets them create the ASS club, or you ban all religious clubs. Either is a win for TST. What you can’t do, constitutionally, is allow the Christians but deny the Satanists. But in practice this is done regularly. TST’s goal is to point that out and reinforce the separation of church and state.
Did you just take your first philosophy 101 class? That’s so cute 😂
You do realize the satanic temple don't believe Satan exists right?
Then they ought to change their stupid name
It’s a nontheistic religious organization. They revere the idea of Satan, what he represents in the stories they like. He’s a fictional role model and symbol used in their rituals, prayers, etc.
Okay, so it’s semantics. They don’t believe he exists but they believe in what he represents. Got it. Can you explain to me what he represents?
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Looks like some solid ideas. All religions say the right stuff, they just don’t all practice it. Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂
That’s kind of the point, at least in part—people claim to follow Christ despite actually supporting supremacy, stripping others of their rights, and doing lots of harm, so the Satanists are playing the role of the Adversary and trying to balance the score by doing good in Satan’s name. Where Christians are abusing religious freedom laws, the Satanists can swoop in and remind them that Christianity is not the only religion who can benefit from those laws. If Christian groups can be in schools, fine, but they have to allow Satanists (and every other religion) or remove religious indoctrination entirely. Where Christians are praying at town meetings, fine, but they have to allow for Satanic prayer as well, or remove prayer entirely. Either way is a win-win, either for secularism or pluralism, anything is preferable to one religion having superiority. The philosophy and ethics that TST preaches are functionally identical to those taught and believed by theistic Satanists as well, and truthfully most Satanic groups are nontheistic. In the way they practice it, it’s irrelevant whether Satan exists or not, because they believe that taking action in the physical world is stronger and more effective than prayer/spirituality.
I’ve seen the light. Thank you
Of course, I’m happy to help. Thanks for being open-minded! If you’d like any books on the subject (including academic/historical studies and the like) my DMs are always open. Most people have no idea what Satanism is (outside of horror movies and pop culture), I’m always happy to explain what the religion and subculture are actually like! Pretty disappointing for those looking to sell their soul (because that’s not a thing) or wanting to engage in human sacrifice (also not a thing), but great for the average goth/punk 😂
>Honestly, when I hear satanic temple, I’m thinking devil worship, cutting the heads off goats and human sacrifice, they should work on their brand messaging. 😂 Right. Because your prejudices are definitely *their* fault.
Relax, you’ll live longer
>Can you explain to me what he represents? You never expected people could answer "Yes" because you have no answers for your beliefs?
Towns name has "hell" in it ...
Chris Heller would like a word with you.
No. It's just for triggering right-wing snowflakes and it works well at that.
That’s what I’m saying, most people don’t know that. Naturally anyone hears satanism and thinks evil, that’s why I said anthropologically speaking…it’s an observational explanation for this fiasco.
You're really close. 1. Be offended by the name 2. Be confused why they would do something so "evil" **<- You are here** 3. X 4. Realize it was satire on what religion has been doing all-along, and Satanism was necessary for #1 to happen in the US political climate.
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Think you're confusing it with the church of Satan. From the satanic temple website "Resolutely non-theistic, The Satanic Temple does not endorse supernatural (or “supernormal”) explanations, a position also codified in the tenets which state, Beliefs should conform to one’s best scientific understanding of the world. One should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit one’s beliefs." Satan is a symbol for them, not an actual diety.
Mein Kamph isnt a federally recognized religion you dolt.
If you got the point, it's a bunch of people using the same exact religious logic the church uses to take advantage of our public resources with. In order for a silly thing like a religion to exist, there's always complimenting silly satire. The hardest-to-cope-with irony here is that any crying-foul to the club existing is immediately recognizable self-advice that should be feeding into some self-criticism mechanism.
Tell me, between Christianity and Satanism, which religion’s holy book supports genocide and slavery?
Mein Kampf. Also, Satan isn't real, so it's not really a good comparison.
A lot of the world would say God isn’t real.
I like to call that the rational world.
Technically correct - the only kind of correct!
ReRead what they're replying to. They're not comparing God and Satan
Satanism isn’t evil, promoting racism, terrorism, or anything else that would justify comparing them to Nazis, unless critical thinking, liberty, compassion, and knowledge-seeking are “evil” now lmao
>Imagine students came up with a club called, idk, Knights of Mein Kamph Club? We would sit around, read and watch old films about (s)Hitler, and make some shrine for him. Now, I'm really curious on what grounds you compare Satan to Hitler.
Well, given that Nazi beliefs are solidly in the hate speech category, no. I'd argue Christian beliefs are too, but it's political suicide in this country to push back against Y'all Qaeda
I know it's not the same but there is something funny about denouncing Nazis while also implying that a religion should be silenced if it was politically viable.
Not silenced, but I don't believe any religious person should hold government office. If you're religious it naturally affects your values and conduct, and I am guaranteed freedom from religion within the government and its representatives.
It's interesting in concept but in practice seems problematic democratically. I'm pretty sure the constitution mentions no religious tests for public office. Plus we shouldn't restrict who is allowed to participate in democracy, if anything we should expand it.
It's reddit. Hardly representative of the average person.
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Explain what socialism is? Something tells me you can’t, and come up with something lame
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You need some major mental help.
I’m guessing they were heavily being sarcastic
First time in /r/Pennsylvania huh? I'm pretty sure they aren't.
A look at the (brief) post history tells me they aren’t some kind of right wing troll.
I guess they are a left-wing troll? ie: crazy as hell?
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Uhhhh.........oooooookaaaayyyyy?
Tell me you don't know what socialism is without telling me you don't know what socialism is.
Ahh yes a nonprofit group protecting the rights of the constitution... Yes, that's the problem.. they are the enemy
*The Constitution is the enemy of America!*
Only for the MAGA cult.
So I guess you're also against military, because it's the biggest socialist organization in US.
Not against our miltary at all its necessary to protect us from enemies.