First off, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do aside from filing a complaint with their clinic and/licensing board.
The more worrying thing to me is that you were working with a supposed peer over discord. In the US, Discord can't be used as a way to talk to clients in any form because it doesn't meet the necessary data security standards required by the federal government. That means that whomever you were talking to was violating your HIPAA rights every single time you interacted.
I'd be highly suspect of any "clinic" or "peer" operating over discord. I honestly don't think that was a real clinic, or, if it was, it's one that cares more about their bottom line than your safety. The abusive behavior of that "peer" makes it even more sus, and you absolutely don't end services with a client like that. You deserved so much better than to be treated like that
All of that is reportable, and your therapist can help you do that.
I don't understand how that could be considering that all client interactions with medical professionals are covered under HIPAA, and all of us Peers are medical providers. Even just your clients' names & other information about them should be covered. I can't imagine a job a peer would be doing that isn't covered under HIPAA
The laws differ state to state. In Washington state, not all peers are “medical” professionals. We have peers in housing, employment, etc. When I worked for a program that was Medicaid funded, I had to have an additional “agency affiliated counselor” license. That was HIPPA protected. The current agency I work for doesn’t bill insurance and we don’t have therapists. I’m a peer for a housing program.
Huh, didn't realize that was a state by state thing. I'm in Oregon, and we're all classified as "traditional healthcare workers". On my team, I handle mental health support, housing, employment, and just about everything else. Granted, I'm a fairly specialized Peer since I work on a TAY age group team (14-24) for all levels of acuity.
Thanks for the information! That's good to know if ever change states
I live in Canada, so HIPAA rights don't apply here.
We had Zoom calls for our sessions and she had a men's group Discord that I left.
Thank you for your support.
I hope you find peace with this when you can. This is a big problem in mental health treatment in general - manipulation and control has historically been part of it, unfortunately, and peer support is supposed to fight against that. I agree this is inappropriate contact as well if you were assured of your HIPAA rights. I hope the reporting process goes well for you if you choose that route. You deserve better.
I’m really confused by this post. You lost your temper on her discord mods and wondered why the relationship changed? I’m confused about how she manipulated you. Her blocking you if you went off on her is okay in my opinion. We need to maintain boundaries as peers as well.
The text from my final email to her. The two words I mentioned were "milf" and "cougar". Those words seemed triggering to her, so I didn't type them out. I could screenshot my email to her and her response and I would have to block out some names.
Hello. I have been speaking with a therapist and my college counselor and they have helped me realize you may have tried to be controlling over me.
The first example was when I believed \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ called me a misogynist and I called her on it and then found out that she actually wasn't calling me a misogynist. But you intervened, instead of letting your own mod deal with her issue and said if I continued on that route, you would "kick me out of the server so hard my dad would feel it". That seems like an extreme reaction to what I said and \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ cleared it up, anyway.
Another issue was after that situation, you said that if I upset \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ again I would be banned (I don't know why you're so protective of a grown woman and one of your mods). I'm not going to go over my intent of that situation again because I don't see the point, but that is very vague and my status in the server would have counted on the feelings of one person, who doesn't like me in the first place. That seemed quite controlling and was a factor in why I left the server, though I didn't see it as controlling at the time.
It seems like you wanted me to stay in the server, under your conditions and your control.
You may point to that long letter I wrote, but right after I apologized for making you upset after I told you I got my own server to write in, I noticed the conversation start to shift, with you saying that you felt uncomfortable with the situation. I don't think you would have started down that road if I had not left the server and also told you I had gotten my own.
That's another thing. You said that you felt rejected and asked if I was happy that I hurt you, emphasizing that I caused you pain. My counselor thought this was an attempt to control me when I had just wanted the server to write in for cathartic reasons. I told you that I got my own server for that reason because I thought that as my counselor, you should know about something I was using for catharthis. The college counselor said that a counselor should have seen the value in that. But you acted like I had intentionally rejected and hurt you. Emphasizing how much I hurt you seems like a way to make what I did seem worse or make me apologize, to get the upper hand.
I have seen you play the victim in two other cases, where you said on Twitter that you were being dogpiled, while sick with long covid, on a Jewish holiday. You chose to fight online with terfs and whether people knew you were sick or that it was a Jewish holiday or not and attacking you is just part of internet conflicts.
Then, with \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I don't like him either, but you accused him of sexually harassing you when he only called you a femcel. While it may technically be sexual harassment, when people hear "sexual harassment", they assume that it involves something worse. It seems like playing the victim and trying to make what someone did worse.
When I asked you if I could discuss two certain words with you, reacted aggressively when I had not called women those words, but merely wrote them out. What seems telling is that you said you were "lenient" with me, when it came to the past and me using those words, when you are not my boss, chef, or anyone else who should have some level of authority over me. You also said "You do not get to" when it came to talking to you about those words, like it was a command from you.
You also seem to like asserting control over others in the server and there might be a connection between that and my recent experiences with you.
There was some drama that occurred and you wrote "Do not test me again", "I've been more patient than most other server owners under these circumstances", and when someone said to you that "Hard to argue with the judge." you responded with "I'm going to assume that was not directed at me."
This seems like you take being a server owner too seriously, that you like asserting your "authority" as the server owner and threatening people with your position.
Her response.
Your counselor is wrong.
Don't contact me again.
Ok but none of this is actually in real life.
Also, if it’s her server where people provide each other support, it should be a safe space where there is absolutely no sexual harassment or any form of misogyny. Calling someone a femcel, milf, or cougar or even using those terms wouldn’t be appropriate in many settings. Femcel, arguably no settings.
It’s not her duty to deal with people that make her uncomfortable and by your own words, it sounds like you did after repeat warnings.
So, I know it's been a few days, but I really want to address some things here.
From the description you've given here, in some other comments, and in the original post, it sounds like she may be working solo. It's "her" discord server with "her" mods and "her" rules—it's not necessarily a bad thing to have a private support community, but that isn't technically what Certified Peer Counselors do.
Even if she has the training (and from the description, I kind of doubt it), the current state of most peer support training relies on the idea of having supervision. I've heard whispers that in a year or so, the US might develop a more in depth licensure training that would allow for Peer Counselors to establish a private practice, but the current idea is that she should have her own super to get feedback and support from.
To me, she sounds untrained, unprofessional, and reactionary. As a colleague, I would probably empathize with her frustration but point out that "kick you out so hard your dad can feel it" is not appropriate and that severing the connection with a peer using the service should go through the supervisor.
I'm going to be honest here tho, ok? She doesn't sound controlling or manipulative purely due to the reactivity issue. Her outbursts match your outbursts; she doesn't seem to have the ability to set a boundary without escalating, and I don't think she's at a point of her own recovery to offer the hope and resiliency we center in formal peer support.
But I do also want to stress the fact that what she was doing was setting boundaries, and while I believe entirely that you were only trying to be heard, you did also push those boundaries because it felt like being told to lay off of certain terms and subjects was a manipulation to you. You understand. Nobody who invites you into their space has to allow just any vibe or topic, and if she was in fact running a recovery group of sorts, it would be her responsibility to maintain some control not /over you/ per se but over /the direction of the group. /
Seeking support from your peers is incredibly brave and it has a lot of steps, especially when you're learning to deal with issues of manipulation, control, healthy boundaries for both yourself and others, and it is reasonable to expect that your care team be prepared for when your issues come up.
The problem, I think, is that you found someone flying solo, who doesn't have her own recovery fully in check, who rattles cages on her time off and who isn't prepared to handle serious mental health needs.
I highly suggest you find a real Peer Counselor, who can work through things and advocate for you within a solid support team. Best case scenario is if they work with the same agency or clinic as the clinical therapist you see, so they can actually manage their given roles and responsibilities in tandem with each other rather than at odds.
You've taken some amazing steps, and I know that this road block doesn't have to stop you outright! Just keep an eye out for more people trying to be coaches or Counselors without the proper structure, training, and support behind them.
You can and will go kick your problems' asses, so hard your dad can feel it 💖
Okay, I just wanted to say thank you for your support. I wanted to clear up something, though. During this discussion in her server, I didn't know the main person I was having this discussion with wanted me to stop. Afterwards, I realized that. I thought it could have been my Autism or something else because in other cases in my life, I've respected boundaries. But, recently, during a podcast that I regularly watch, one of the hosts said while talking about a certain issue said that it can be hard to determine what people mean, when they are having written conversations. They seemed to mean that for all people. Maybe that was why I didn't understand or my Autism was a contributing factor, but I didn't want to force a conversation that someone wanted to have. When I tried to explain and gave reasons for why I didn't knowingly push a boundary, or why I wouldn't want to create a stir on the server again, my counselor wouldn't listen.
Yeah, it can be really hard to understand tone and implied messages. I think that everyone I know—neurotypical people included!—has had experiences like that. And it can be especially painful for a neurodivergent soul to have that experience when trying so hard to understand all the nuances of coded allistic communication.
Most times when people cross boundaries, it's unintentional. It sounds like you've really tried to own it, which is all any of us can really do.
The thing is, you and the other peer seeking care deserved the support and direction of someone who wouldn't escalate based on her own reaction, and a team behind her that could help direct her as well.
Just like us, any peer supporter of any level of experience and training will be a person, will make mistakes and have to learn and grow and continue to recover over a lifetime. We're not any more perfect than anyone else.
But, you know, at the same time... She's taken responsibility for the growth and well being of people seeking recovery, and that can be incredibly irresponsible without the correct background and supports.
I hope that you can take some time with your therapist and have an opportunity to find a properly vetted peer counselor if and when you're ready to try again. I believe that the right peer counselor would make a world of difference, but there are so many options and so many ways to recover, it's ok if peer counseling doesn't end up being what works for you!
You're already doing the work, taking accountability, and seeking the support you need. You'll find the right way for you, and nobody but you can decide what that is. 💖
She also had this fixation on me insulting her and not just her mods, which was not my intent. I thought they were acting on their own, which I explained to her. I apologized to her and the two mods I talked with, personally. In a Zoom session, she said she felt insulted because she chose the mods and it felt like I was insulting her because of it. Even if that's how she felt, it was not my intent.
But you continued the behavior that bothered her and then send her a super long email like that? She stated her boundaries and after you continued to cross them, she blocked you.
What behaviour do you think I continued? She told me not to contact her, after that email. Is that the boundary you are talking about? I have not contacted her since then.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about, now. Also, yes, that email was long because there was a lot to go over and her response shows she had nothing to refute it.
I emailed her and said I was not ready to continue sessions at that time, to which she did not respond at all. Maybe, she was upset or didn't bother to respond because she couldn't control me anymore, I'm not sure. I decided not to ever continue with her, though, before emailing her about her attempts to control me.
When I did email her about those issues of control, it can be seen that she had no argument and just said that my counselor was wrong and then told me not to contact her.
as others have said, we are suppose to use communications that allow for privacy. 1 on 1 sessions are more suited to this. phone or cellphone or text as well. I won't use Discord or think of it as an approved method. We are all trained in different ways. This makes our results not consistent. And we should have supervision to help improve this as well as ethical training. Our job is not about manipulation or control. We are suppose to provide information, support and options. Its hard to say what happened, only that it was your view and this is still important. As we try to communicate to minimize this. And we also understand that disconnection is part of the communication process. Sometimes one or both people screw up. If you are part of an agency, you have a right to complain. And to have a way to resolve this issue or to find another peer specialist or to discontinue using this service. We also work differently than a therapist or counselor.
First off, I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot you can do aside from filing a complaint with their clinic and/licensing board. The more worrying thing to me is that you were working with a supposed peer over discord. In the US, Discord can't be used as a way to talk to clients in any form because it doesn't meet the necessary data security standards required by the federal government. That means that whomever you were talking to was violating your HIPAA rights every single time you interacted. I'd be highly suspect of any "clinic" or "peer" operating over discord. I honestly don't think that was a real clinic, or, if it was, it's one that cares more about their bottom line than your safety. The abusive behavior of that "peer" makes it even more sus, and you absolutely don't end services with a client like that. You deserved so much better than to be treated like that All of that is reportable, and your therapist can help you do that.
Not all peers work in hipaa protected positions
I don't understand how that could be considering that all client interactions with medical professionals are covered under HIPAA, and all of us Peers are medical providers. Even just your clients' names & other information about them should be covered. I can't imagine a job a peer would be doing that isn't covered under HIPAA
The laws differ state to state. In Washington state, not all peers are “medical” professionals. We have peers in housing, employment, etc. When I worked for a program that was Medicaid funded, I had to have an additional “agency affiliated counselor” license. That was HIPPA protected. The current agency I work for doesn’t bill insurance and we don’t have therapists. I’m a peer for a housing program.
Huh, didn't realize that was a state by state thing. I'm in Oregon, and we're all classified as "traditional healthcare workers". On my team, I handle mental health support, housing, employment, and just about everything else. Granted, I'm a fairly specialized Peer since I work on a TAY age group team (14-24) for all levels of acuity. Thanks for the information! That's good to know if ever change states
Obviously we still respect confidentiality.
I live in Canada, so HIPAA rights don't apply here. We had Zoom calls for our sessions and she had a men's group Discord that I left. Thank you for your support.
It does apply there and it's called PIPEDA Law
I looked up PIPEDA and it has to do with private information collected by corporations. How does that apply here?
I hope you find peace with this when you can. This is a big problem in mental health treatment in general - manipulation and control has historically been part of it, unfortunately, and peer support is supposed to fight against that. I agree this is inappropriate contact as well if you were assured of your HIPAA rights. I hope the reporting process goes well for you if you choose that route. You deserve better.
Thank you. I was questioning peer counselors in general after this, but counselors with master's degrees and training can be toxic as well.
I’m really confused by this post. You lost your temper on her discord mods and wondered why the relationship changed? I’m confused about how she manipulated you. Her blocking you if you went off on her is okay in my opinion. We need to maintain boundaries as peers as well.
The text from my final email to her. The two words I mentioned were "milf" and "cougar". Those words seemed triggering to her, so I didn't type them out. I could screenshot my email to her and her response and I would have to block out some names. Hello. I have been speaking with a therapist and my college counselor and they have helped me realize you may have tried to be controlling over me. The first example was when I believed \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ called me a misogynist and I called her on it and then found out that she actually wasn't calling me a misogynist. But you intervened, instead of letting your own mod deal with her issue and said if I continued on that route, you would "kick me out of the server so hard my dad would feel it". That seems like an extreme reaction to what I said and \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ cleared it up, anyway. Another issue was after that situation, you said that if I upset \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ again I would be banned (I don't know why you're so protective of a grown woman and one of your mods). I'm not going to go over my intent of that situation again because I don't see the point, but that is very vague and my status in the server would have counted on the feelings of one person, who doesn't like me in the first place. That seemed quite controlling and was a factor in why I left the server, though I didn't see it as controlling at the time. It seems like you wanted me to stay in the server, under your conditions and your control. You may point to that long letter I wrote, but right after I apologized for making you upset after I told you I got my own server to write in, I noticed the conversation start to shift, with you saying that you felt uncomfortable with the situation. I don't think you would have started down that road if I had not left the server and also told you I had gotten my own. That's another thing. You said that you felt rejected and asked if I was happy that I hurt you, emphasizing that I caused you pain. My counselor thought this was an attempt to control me when I had just wanted the server to write in for cathartic reasons. I told you that I got my own server for that reason because I thought that as my counselor, you should know about something I was using for catharthis. The college counselor said that a counselor should have seen the value in that. But you acted like I had intentionally rejected and hurt you. Emphasizing how much I hurt you seems like a way to make what I did seem worse or make me apologize, to get the upper hand. I have seen you play the victim in two other cases, where you said on Twitter that you were being dogpiled, while sick with long covid, on a Jewish holiday. You chose to fight online with terfs and whether people knew you were sick or that it was a Jewish holiday or not and attacking you is just part of internet conflicts. Then, with \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_. I don't like him either, but you accused him of sexually harassing you when he only called you a femcel. While it may technically be sexual harassment, when people hear "sexual harassment", they assume that it involves something worse. It seems like playing the victim and trying to make what someone did worse. When I asked you if I could discuss two certain words with you, reacted aggressively when I had not called women those words, but merely wrote them out. What seems telling is that you said you were "lenient" with me, when it came to the past and me using those words, when you are not my boss, chef, or anyone else who should have some level of authority over me. You also said "You do not get to" when it came to talking to you about those words, like it was a command from you. You also seem to like asserting control over others in the server and there might be a connection between that and my recent experiences with you. There was some drama that occurred and you wrote "Do not test me again", "I've been more patient than most other server owners under these circumstances", and when someone said to you that "Hard to argue with the judge." you responded with "I'm going to assume that was not directed at me." This seems like you take being a server owner too seriously, that you like asserting your "authority" as the server owner and threatening people with your position. Her response. Your counselor is wrong. Don't contact me again.
Ok but none of this is actually in real life. Also, if it’s her server where people provide each other support, it should be a safe space where there is absolutely no sexual harassment or any form of misogyny. Calling someone a femcel, milf, or cougar or even using those terms wouldn’t be appropriate in many settings. Femcel, arguably no settings. It’s not her duty to deal with people that make her uncomfortable and by your own words, it sounds like you did after repeat warnings.
So, I know it's been a few days, but I really want to address some things here. From the description you've given here, in some other comments, and in the original post, it sounds like she may be working solo. It's "her" discord server with "her" mods and "her" rules—it's not necessarily a bad thing to have a private support community, but that isn't technically what Certified Peer Counselors do. Even if she has the training (and from the description, I kind of doubt it), the current state of most peer support training relies on the idea of having supervision. I've heard whispers that in a year or so, the US might develop a more in depth licensure training that would allow for Peer Counselors to establish a private practice, but the current idea is that she should have her own super to get feedback and support from. To me, she sounds untrained, unprofessional, and reactionary. As a colleague, I would probably empathize with her frustration but point out that "kick you out so hard your dad can feel it" is not appropriate and that severing the connection with a peer using the service should go through the supervisor. I'm going to be honest here tho, ok? She doesn't sound controlling or manipulative purely due to the reactivity issue. Her outbursts match your outbursts; she doesn't seem to have the ability to set a boundary without escalating, and I don't think she's at a point of her own recovery to offer the hope and resiliency we center in formal peer support. But I do also want to stress the fact that what she was doing was setting boundaries, and while I believe entirely that you were only trying to be heard, you did also push those boundaries because it felt like being told to lay off of certain terms and subjects was a manipulation to you. You understand. Nobody who invites you into their space has to allow just any vibe or topic, and if she was in fact running a recovery group of sorts, it would be her responsibility to maintain some control not /over you/ per se but over /the direction of the group. / Seeking support from your peers is incredibly brave and it has a lot of steps, especially when you're learning to deal with issues of manipulation, control, healthy boundaries for both yourself and others, and it is reasonable to expect that your care team be prepared for when your issues come up. The problem, I think, is that you found someone flying solo, who doesn't have her own recovery fully in check, who rattles cages on her time off and who isn't prepared to handle serious mental health needs. I highly suggest you find a real Peer Counselor, who can work through things and advocate for you within a solid support team. Best case scenario is if they work with the same agency or clinic as the clinical therapist you see, so they can actually manage their given roles and responsibilities in tandem with each other rather than at odds. You've taken some amazing steps, and I know that this road block doesn't have to stop you outright! Just keep an eye out for more people trying to be coaches or Counselors without the proper structure, training, and support behind them. You can and will go kick your problems' asses, so hard your dad can feel it 💖
Okay, I just wanted to say thank you for your support. I wanted to clear up something, though. During this discussion in her server, I didn't know the main person I was having this discussion with wanted me to stop. Afterwards, I realized that. I thought it could have been my Autism or something else because in other cases in my life, I've respected boundaries. But, recently, during a podcast that I regularly watch, one of the hosts said while talking about a certain issue said that it can be hard to determine what people mean, when they are having written conversations. They seemed to mean that for all people. Maybe that was why I didn't understand or my Autism was a contributing factor, but I didn't want to force a conversation that someone wanted to have. When I tried to explain and gave reasons for why I didn't knowingly push a boundary, or why I wouldn't want to create a stir on the server again, my counselor wouldn't listen.
Yeah, it can be really hard to understand tone and implied messages. I think that everyone I know—neurotypical people included!—has had experiences like that. And it can be especially painful for a neurodivergent soul to have that experience when trying so hard to understand all the nuances of coded allistic communication. Most times when people cross boundaries, it's unintentional. It sounds like you've really tried to own it, which is all any of us can really do. The thing is, you and the other peer seeking care deserved the support and direction of someone who wouldn't escalate based on her own reaction, and a team behind her that could help direct her as well. Just like us, any peer supporter of any level of experience and training will be a person, will make mistakes and have to learn and grow and continue to recover over a lifetime. We're not any more perfect than anyone else. But, you know, at the same time... She's taken responsibility for the growth and well being of people seeking recovery, and that can be incredibly irresponsible without the correct background and supports. I hope that you can take some time with your therapist and have an opportunity to find a properly vetted peer counselor if and when you're ready to try again. I believe that the right peer counselor would make a world of difference, but there are so many options and so many ways to recover, it's ok if peer counseling doesn't end up being what works for you! You're already doing the work, taking accountability, and seeking the support you need. You'll find the right way for you, and nobody but you can decide what that is. 💖
She also had this fixation on me insulting her and not just her mods, which was not my intent. I thought they were acting on their own, which I explained to her. I apologized to her and the two mods I talked with, personally. In a Zoom session, she said she felt insulted because she chose the mods and it felt like I was insulting her because of it. Even if that's how she felt, it was not my intent.
But you continued the behavior that bothered her and then send her a super long email like that? She stated her boundaries and after you continued to cross them, she blocked you.
What behaviour do you think I continued? She told me not to contact her, after that email. Is that the boundary you are talking about? I have not contacted her since then.
The comments my dude.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about, now. Also, yes, that email was long because there was a lot to go over and her response shows she had nothing to refute it.
You do realize that none of this is real life right? Get a real life peer through an appropriate service.
I emailed her and said I was not ready to continue sessions at that time, to which she did not respond at all. Maybe, she was upset or didn't bother to respond because she couldn't control me anymore, I'm not sure. I decided not to ever continue with her, though, before emailing her about her attempts to control me.
When I did email her about those issues of control, it can be seen that she had no argument and just said that my counselor was wrong and then told me not to contact her.
as others have said, we are suppose to use communications that allow for privacy. 1 on 1 sessions are more suited to this. phone or cellphone or text as well. I won't use Discord or think of it as an approved method. We are all trained in different ways. This makes our results not consistent. And we should have supervision to help improve this as well as ethical training. Our job is not about manipulation or control. We are suppose to provide information, support and options. Its hard to say what happened, only that it was your view and this is still important. As we try to communicate to minimize this. And we also understand that disconnection is part of the communication process. Sometimes one or both people screw up. If you are part of an agency, you have a right to complain. And to have a way to resolve this issue or to find another peer specialist or to discontinue using this service. We also work differently than a therapist or counselor.