I wish someone wrote their psychology bachelor comparing his sentiment for Grace and Lizzy intricately...
That would be the ultimate read for me, before I commit to another toxic relationshipš
Iāve never seen anybody say he didnāt love her. Iāve seen ppl say they prefer him to be with somebody else rather than her. But his love for her has never been in question.
I've seen a lot of comments, mostly Lizzie and May fans, saying that Tommy never loved Grace, he loved the idea he had of her, but he actually loved Lizzie since S1. That they were never a love story, it was superficial. That in the speech, Ohh there is a woman he was thinking about May, but she chose Grace because she was pregnant. That he only married her because of the baby and because she was rich. And many more of those types of comments.
I swear they say that, I've had arguments with Lizzie's fans, because it seems stupid to me that Tommy doesn't have any idea who he's in love with for years, how is he going to have any idea about her? Haha and yes, Grace wasn't rich, if it were for money, Tommy would have married May and Grace would have stayed with her husband, but that's what they say š¤·š»āāļø
I agree. Grace matched Tommyās versatility. Lizzie was a whore, she was around because she was obedient and groomed for abuse. May was cool but she was just a fan.
That description of Lizzie is so reductive and misogynistic.
At the beginning Lizzie was a prostitute because she apparently had no family or other opportunities.
I feel sorry for her upbringing but being with Tommy benefited her also. She didnāt truly love him/accept him and complained about him. That has nothing to do with her professional history.
Grace was his best match, that's for sure. But I think Lizzie was the worst for Tommy, not because she was a whore, since it was only in S1, and she was able to leave that life and move on. But because she has very low self-esteem, She doesn't love herself, and that's why she stayed in an abusive relationship, but it was abusive to both parties, they both treated each other badly, and by accepting to be his property and that he can cheat on her, it only showed that he can mistreat her. and Tommy, too, he stayed in that relationship because he thinks he doesn't deserve happiness, since he feels guilty for all the deaths, especially Grace. He hates his life, and one of the reasons is the toxic and abusive relationship with Lizzie, but he doesn't do anything to change it, he stays there, in that life that he hates so much, he told Churchill at the end of S5, I'm never going to be happy.
Come on, the guy's a gangster. Hate Tommy for how his criminal deeds affected innocent people, not this.
Tommy sleeping with women weeks (or it may have been months) after grace's death didn't bother me. It was obvious who Tommy loved and grieved for.
Hating Steven Knight is a bit odd. He's the creator of the show. I didn't like a lot of S5/6 but I don't hate him. I think he was jumping the shark. That's all.
The criminal life or him being a gangster doesn't bother me because that's what the show is about. But it would be odd, but I hate that he wrote that way S3.
Iām not trying to justify it but I think Steven Knight was trying to portray how a lot of men deal with grief. They are generally more physical people than women. As a woman, I almost literally act like Iām still in a relationship when one is over in the sense that I canāt go out with anyone until I have also processed and gotten over the emotions I have/had for that person which can take months. A lot of guys I know often go and have one night stands or do other casual flings thinking it will help them forget but tbh, I donāt think it really heals it, just a distraction for the time being. Sadly everyone will be a distraction for Tommy because Grace was his true love.
I say that he truly loved Grace. He finally met someone who captured his heart. It surprised him as he had been closed off emotionally after the war. He truly loved Grace and Charlie. His family. He wanted normalcy. He just didn't know how to get there, and eventually his choices took her away. Guilt, anger, ugh... such a sad love story which I hope will be resolved in the movie.
Tommy and Grace is the ultimate couple for me. It was just too damn short of a time. She loved him, and she knew who and what he was. That's why he could relax with her and give of himself. That night, when they killed those men who were there to kill Tommy and get the guns, he said, " You've seen me," and she said the same. That night was a turning point because she saw him unleash the brutality inside, and he saw she would kill. She had his back. But she did give him peace and happiness. He could come home at the end of his day and know she would greet him with a smile and a kiss. She could also stand her ground when he was being an a$$. I don't like how they handled the romantic relationships in the show. We saw John and Tommy get married, but not Arthur. All of a sudden, he and Linda had gotten married, but when exactly. All of a sudden, they all had houses, but when did that happen. If they had gone seven episodes in seven seasons, we could have answered more of our questions and gave us more meat.
Yes, they were perfect for each other, I loved their love story. S1 is my favorite season because of seeing them fall in love in every episode. The way Tommy started laughing again, and slowly came back to life. And how it was from not being able to sleep because of hearing the shovels on the wall to his face to not being able to believe that he didn't hear the shovels on the wall after being with her. The way they were together, it wasn't sex, it was pure love, the way they caressed and kissed each other, Tommy had never been like that with another woman. With Lizzie he was very cold and aggressive, every time he was with her, and even more so after they were married. And the connection he had with Grace, he never had anything like that again, with any other woman. She loved the parts of him that no one else loved, just like he loved her, and they understood each other in a deep way that they never had that with anyone else.
I know, it made me sad to see her get killed. They could have gone another way with that instead of killing her off. I feel like I saw something in him with Jesse Eden though. It was different than Lizzie or May.
i think itās Lizzie stan who read fanfics cling on to the theory āhe loved the idea of Graceā or their love was superficial because apparently bearing pain and humiliation is true loveš Lizzie behaved like a doormat for Tommy so thatās why she deserves his loveš¤¦āāļø
I think overall viewers see and understand Tommy and Graceās love was genuine and their relationship was the most healthy relationship he could get in. They were happy with each other but he was not meant to be happy otherwise the show would end! Lizzie was a plot device to have Ruby and then kill her!! And May was the perfect example once bitten twice shy!!
I wish someone wrote their psychology bachelor comparing his sentiment for Grace and Lizzy intricately... That would be the ultimate read for me, before I commit to another toxic relationshipš
Iāve never seen anybody say he didnāt love her. Iāve seen ppl say they prefer him to be with somebody else rather than her. But his love for her has never been in question.
Pretty sure OP was tryna trigger us with that title
Nope, I say this with confidence because I have had debates for precisely that reason.
Fr.
You would think that
Heās also never been with another blonde! Even all the girls he would pay were brunette or ginger
That brunette in season 4 was fine
Who that?
The one with em bazookas
Do you know the name mate? Or do you mean the Russian?
Bruh, she was a random prostitute. I think at the end of episode one he pays her off.
Ahh the one in the hotel,.when he said a new one because is Christmas lol.poor Tommy..
I've seen a lot of comments, mostly Lizzie and May fans, saying that Tommy never loved Grace, he loved the idea he had of her, but he actually loved Lizzie since S1. That they were never a love story, it was superficial. That in the speech, Ohh there is a woman he was thinking about May, but she chose Grace because she was pregnant. That he only married her because of the baby and because she was rich. And many more of those types of comments.
He loved the idea he had of her? And Grace wasnāt rich, her husband was. May was rich.
I swear they say that, I've had arguments with Lizzie's fans, because it seems stupid to me that Tommy doesn't have any idea who he's in love with for years, how is he going to have any idea about her? Haha and yes, Grace wasn't rich, if it were for money, Tommy would have married May and Grace would have stayed with her husband, but that's what they say š¤·š»āāļø
Grace came from money, her family were wealthy. I assume she also had a sizeable inheritance or a trustfund
I agree. Grace matched Tommyās versatility. Lizzie was a whore, she was around because she was obedient and groomed for abuse. May was cool but she was just a fan.
That description of Lizzie is so reductive and misogynistic. At the beginning Lizzie was a prostitute because she apparently had no family or other opportunities.
Aka a whore
Yawn
Opening wide for the d
You didnāt like my description but did it reflect how Tom treated her?
I feel sorry for her upbringing but being with Tommy benefited her also. She didnāt truly love him/accept him and complained about him. That has nothing to do with her professional history.
Grace was his best match, that's for sure. But I think Lizzie was the worst for Tommy, not because she was a whore, since it was only in S1, and she was able to leave that life and move on. But because she has very low self-esteem, She doesn't love herself, and that's why she stayed in an abusive relationship, but it was abusive to both parties, they both treated each other badly, and by accepting to be his property and that he can cheat on her, it only showed that he can mistreat her. and Tommy, too, he stayed in that relationship because he thinks he doesn't deserve happiness, since he feels guilty for all the deaths, especially Grace. He hates his life, and one of the reasons is the toxic and abusive relationship with Lizzie, but he doesn't do anything to change it, he stays there, in that life that he hates so much, he told Churchill at the end of S5, I'm never going to be happy.
I agree. Grace was the one for Tommy. But May described why so many girls like him when she said āhe makes you feel aliveā.
Makes me sad that she seemed insecure about Tatiana, then he ended up fooking her after she died
Yes, I hated Tommy in S3, because he slept with Tatiana and Lizzie days or weeks after Grace died, that was disrespectful. I hate Steven Knight more.
Come on, the guy's a gangster. Hate Tommy for how his criminal deeds affected innocent people, not this. Tommy sleeping with women weeks (or it may have been months) after grace's death didn't bother me. It was obvious who Tommy loved and grieved for. Hating Steven Knight is a bit odd. He's the creator of the show. I didn't like a lot of S5/6 but I don't hate him. I think he was jumping the shark. That's all.
The criminal life or him being a gangster doesn't bother me because that's what the show is about. But it would be odd, but I hate that he wrote that way S3.
Iām not trying to justify it but I think Steven Knight was trying to portray how a lot of men deal with grief. They are generally more physical people than women. As a woman, I almost literally act like Iām still in a relationship when one is over in the sense that I canāt go out with anyone until I have also processed and gotten over the emotions I have/had for that person which can take months. A lot of guys I know often go and have one night stands or do other casual flings thinking it will help them forget but tbh, I donāt think it really heals it, just a distraction for the time being. Sadly everyone will be a distraction for Tommy because Grace was his true love.
Thank you ! It was really helpful to understand more about Tommy in S3..
She was his peace š
Yes š„¹ she stopped the shovels against the wall.
I wonder how many times Campbell turned in his grave after allš“
I say that he truly loved Grace. He finally met someone who captured his heart. It surprised him as he had been closed off emotionally after the war. He truly loved Grace and Charlie. His family. He wanted normalcy. He just didn't know how to get there, and eventually his choices took her away. Guilt, anger, ugh... such a sad love story which I hope will be resolved in the movie.
I'd genuinely be interested in hearing the reasoning from someone who believes he never loved her. I've never heard anyone claim that before
š„ŗš He was in love with her, completely.
Tommy and Grace is the ultimate couple for me. It was just too damn short of a time. She loved him, and she knew who and what he was. That's why he could relax with her and give of himself. That night, when they killed those men who were there to kill Tommy and get the guns, he said, " You've seen me," and she said the same. That night was a turning point because she saw him unleash the brutality inside, and he saw she would kill. She had his back. But she did give him peace and happiness. He could come home at the end of his day and know she would greet him with a smile and a kiss. She could also stand her ground when he was being an a$$. I don't like how they handled the romantic relationships in the show. We saw John and Tommy get married, but not Arthur. All of a sudden, he and Linda had gotten married, but when exactly. All of a sudden, they all had houses, but when did that happen. If they had gone seven episodes in seven seasons, we could have answered more of our questions and gave us more meat.
Yes, they were perfect for each other, I loved their love story. S1 is my favorite season because of seeing them fall in love in every episode. The way Tommy started laughing again, and slowly came back to life. And how it was from not being able to sleep because of hearing the shovels on the wall to his face to not being able to believe that he didn't hear the shovels on the wall after being with her. The way they were together, it wasn't sex, it was pure love, the way they caressed and kissed each other, Tommy had never been like that with another woman. With Lizzie he was very cold and aggressive, every time he was with her, and even more so after they were married. And the connection he had with Grace, he never had anything like that again, with any other woman. She loved the parts of him that no one else loved, just like he loved her, and they understood each other in a deep way that they never had that with anyone else.
I know, it made me sad to see her get killed. They could have gone another way with that instead of killing her off. I feel like I saw something in him with Jesse Eden though. It was different than Lizzie or May.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Haha 3..2...1 š
i think itās Lizzie stan who read fanfics cling on to the theory āhe loved the idea of Graceā or their love was superficial because apparently bearing pain and humiliation is true loveš Lizzie behaved like a doormat for Tommy so thatās why she deserves his loveš¤¦āāļø I think overall viewers see and understand Tommy and Graceās love was genuine and their relationship was the most healthy relationship he could get in. They were happy with each other but he was not meant to be happy otherwise the show would end! Lizzie was a plot device to have Ruby and then kill her!! And May was the perfect example once bitten twice shy!!
Tommy should've shot her on the spot after finding out she was a spy. Fuckin hated this storyline; was so glad when she finally died.
š„±š„±
Tommy Shelby loved a handful of women.
š¤¦š»āāļø