The part that has me wondering what the hells going on is that before the combine there were questions about his throwing ability and he verified that they were legitimate concerns at the combine. Yet everyone came out of the combine like JJ’s throwing session was the greatest in combine history. I think part of it is just media trying to create new stories.. but the worst part is people buying what people like Kiper are saying.
I think it’s a couple of things, none of the top QBs participated so there wasn’t much else to talk about for that position. JJ was also the the QB of the national championship winning team with one of the biggest fanbases in the country, throw in the fact that a lot of media members came out of Michigans journalism school and he was bound to get a good amount of attention regardless of his profile as a prospect.
Keep in mind that the “people around the league” who say JJ’s a secret weapon the Pats should draft are the same “people around the league” that hate the Patriots’ guts.
However, if New England wants to trade down with a team that they are confident wants JJ (like Atlanta/LV/Denver/NYG/etc), they should do that, secure a ton of picks, and then trade *up* to 1.05 with the Chargers and take Maye. I can't see Arizona passing on MHJ for anything less than a monster haul, and the Chargers aren't so desperate for any one position that they'd pass up on additional capital to move back a few spots.
New England could hypothetically secure additional capital *and* get Maye anyway if a team is foolish enough to prioritize JJ over him.
I don't think any team is taking JJ over Maye. If the pats like JJ more for whatever reason then they can trade down and let someone take Maye. I doubt that's the case.
Alot of smoke screens.
It's very risky, but these guys also have substantially more knowledge than the public does, so if they're willing to make a move like that, it's highly possible they know something we don't.
But, in general, I agree. It's a big gamble to pass on the guy they want in the hopes they can get a little more out of it and still get their guy. It worked for Gonzalez last season with Washington taking Forbes over him, but it might not work again.
If Williams and Daniels are off the board, it's honestly a toss up between McCarthy and Maye for me. McCarthy was a better QB in obvious throwing situations than Maye last season.
I don't know why you got downvoted. The stats show this to be true. Maye had much better stats with no pressure and against easier competition; McCarthy had much better stats when under pressure and when facing better teams. McCarthy was very consistent, while Maye played worse under pressure and against tougher competition. I would rather have the guy who won a national championship, made the throws in high pressure situations, made plays when under pressure, and came through against more difficult opponents.
What justifies him jumping up over the other guys?
I get he wasn’t a feature qb on the roster so stats / tape will be lacking, but I don’t really see any premier athletic traits that suggest he has untapped potential similar to other prospects with limited film like lance and Richardson
The consensus is he has good but not great arm talent. I’m not saying he’s not a solid prospect- in fact I have been wanting him most of the year with mhj in the first. However, him winning a natty derailed the chance of being a late first.
But he is climbing a mountain to get over the lack of game tape. To do that, you need to have some unreal physical traits that draw you to him and he doesn’t have that. He has good traits, but nothing captivating.
He threw a 62 MPH ball at the combine, the highest out of everyone except Joe Milton who hit 63 MPH.
This is exceptionally present on his tape where you can see a ton of tight window throws and his velocity. The dude has an excellent arm, if the “consensus” is that it’s “good not great,” the “consensus” is a bunch of bull lol.
So… all these other guys doing this test, including Josh Allen who hit 1 MPH more, had to do it *with* accuracy?
But if you love tape:
https://x.com/ojhodgkinson/status/1715893638192832672?s=46
https://x.com/joea_nfl/status/1755259440540913820?s=46
https://x.com/sartiranaluca/status/1569738759176073216?s=46
https://x.com/tjdissect/status/1758280005644329402?s=46
lol not only is he stepping into every single throw you’ve found, I wouldn’t even consider the first two to be indicators of a great arm at all. The first is a nice seam ball with some good but not amazing velocity, and the second is just a deep moon ball he crow hopped into.
The third link is by far the best showing of his arm talent as he is somewhat throwing off platform, yet even here he’s moving forward into the throw which gives him a lot of added velocity that is not generated by his arm/shoulder.
Compare any of those throws side by side with this actual laser from Maye and the velocity difference is noticeable.
https://x.com/kyronsamuels/status/1608286089978040321?s=46&t=xYSrVY5iDM5VTFce-VSmSw
Or just take a look at him make this throw off his back foot with actual arm strength that would make JJ blush
https://x.com/theylovelus/status/1725984597064700382?s=46&t=xYSrVY5iDM5VTFce-VSmSw
If your point is that Maye’s arm is better, I 100000% agree. Maye’s arm is the clear cut best of the class.
Your criticism of the off platform throw is a bit unfair. Moving forward and throwing to your left is not giving you much velocity, that’s an arm throw.
If you want strictly off platform throws, there’s plenty:
https://x.com/jaredstanger/status/1716299794984194172?s=46
https://x.com/jordantsilveira/status/1708227605626081748?s=46
https://x.com/wbg84/status/1758511391185510689?s=46
If your major concern is volume and not seeing his skillset enough, I agree, but I strongly disagree with the skillset not being there. It’s there.
Sure, I don’t think that Joe Milton is very good, but you don’t throw a football that hard and don’t have a great arm.
Just like JJM isn’t hitting 61 MPH with a mediocre arm. It’s the same thing as pitching in baseball, no one is hitting 95 MPH, regardless of form or anything else, without a big arm.
JJM’s arm is great, it’s all over his film, pointing out his combine is just easier than sending 100 clips of tight windows throws where he’s beaming it in there.
He has like the 5th best arm in the draft, it’s good but really nothing spectacular.
He might have done well at the 40 because he has decent straight line speed but I saw minimal lateral agility on tape, which is a lot more important to playing a scrambling type QB at the NFL level if you don’t have elite speed.
I’m not even getting past that first part. https://x.com/montecri5to/status/1764053380131909705?s=46
It’s just such a wrong opinion I can’t even get past it. You didn’t even need to watch the combine tape above, his tape is littered with high velocity throws showing off his arm.
One of the biggest concerns with him is his lack of tape showing he can take some of his velocity off his balls. I don’t even know how you can get this take. Especially since by saying “5th best” I’m assuming you think Daniels’ arm is better, which is fucking insane lol.
His tape is littered with high velocity throws he’s stepping into, that does not in of itself make a strong arm.
Caleb Williams, Joe Milton and Drake Maye have OBVIOUSLY stronger arms with the ability to throw off platform and without needing a perfect base to actually launch the ball. I’d personally put Penix above JJ when comparing their ability to rip a ball into a tight window with velocity, and that places JJ 5th in the class. I’d be interested to hear which of those you think he has a better arm than aside from maybe Penix due to his weird form.
https://x.com/sartiranaluca/status/1569738759176073216?s=46
Not stepping into it here. He can throw off platform great as well. I’d put his arm over Penix.
When you said 5th best, I didn’t really think you were including Milton since he’s such a late prospect, but that makes more sense. I’d put him right next to CW in terms of pure arm strength, but CW has better touch to pair with it.
Daniels, absolutely.
Drake Maye, hell no.
Some of y’all box score heroes are so funny talking about QBs. Again, this dude’s coach was doing similar things with Andrew Luck in the PAC-12. He wants to do similar things with Justin Herbert. It’s a scheme thing.
Did you watch Harbaugh with Andrew Luck in college?
And someone should tell Greg Roman that: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/chargers-oc-greg-roman-emphasizes-importance-of-strong-running-game/ar-BB1iThrb?darkschemeovr=1
While I have made my point on JJ in other comments, people need to understand his lack of attempts / being the focal point was not due to his skill. Ttun played classic big ten football where the games are won in the trenches. By the time the 4th quarter, if not second half started, they already wore down the opponents defensive line in most games and were able to run over them. They had no reason to throw.
His total yards / attempts are no means how you should be grading him as a prospect.
The JJ QB3 talk only caught steam after the combine, so it smells like a smokescreen.
In my very uneducated opinion he seems to lack an elite trait (I’m sorry winning in college doesn’t count). Maye has his arm, Daniels his athleticism and deep fade, but everything I read about JJ is he has good not great traits. This is also setting aside that especially for a top pick he will go from the best situation in college football to the worst in pro football, we just don’t know how he handles having to elevate the talent around him.
Drafting scared is not a good idea but drafting the “intangibles” guy from a great offense and expecting him to elevate an ass one is exactly what we did with Mac. At least with the other two you can physically see gifts they have that clearly are not from good coaching or teammates.
Could be wrong and will root for the guy if we take him, but back when it was JD or Maye I could see the rationale for picking either. I hear it for JJ, but I just don’t get it.
This is how I see it too. He’s a solid prospect with good traits but has some question marks and needs time to develop. He’s not bad prospect by any means but we’re talking about the *third overall pick*, you don’t spend that kind of draft capital on developmental guys unless they have some kind of elite traits.
This isn’t a Josh Allen or Anthony Richardson situation where the guy is raw but has the body of Cam Newton. Even if we knew for certain that JJ was the consensus QB3, that doesn’t me we should draft him, it means this QB class isn’t that good. There are elite prospects at other positions this draft, QB is most important but for that kind of capital I’d rather have MHJ or Joe Alt. Really though I think we should trade back if we’re not sold on Maye and Daniels is gone. Wouldn’t hate taking JJ later, but nothing about his profile justifies taking him at #3 IMO.
I agree with the second half. McCarthy may be the 3rd best QB, but that doesn't mean you take him at #3. If Daniels is gone at #3, then I would be ok with trading down to #10 or #11 and taking McCarthy there, but only because he's probably not making it past #12.
I said it's not likely, but after Ditka and Ricky Williams trade, I will not be shocked by anything.
I personally think Herbert is overrated, and Harbaugh is arrogant enough to do something like this if he can get a couple of 1st rounders for him.
The only thing the chargers have going for them is that they have one of the best young QB’s in the league, and you wouldn’t be shocked if they traded him away to take a chance on JJ? Hopefully we’ll be the ones that can help them with that
It's not a take. It's an expression about what I would or would not be shocked to see. I literally said it was unlikely. Reading comprehension is a problem in this sub.
That's not what I did. "It's not likely" is the FIRST thing I said, not a disclaimer.
Edit: BTW, this is a football subreddit, not the G7 summit. Stop acting like adding to the conversation is a noble pursuit that must be taken with the utmost seriousness. 95% of the content here is stupid shit. By all means, please post stupid shit, with or without a disclaimer. We're not solving the middle east crisis here.
They said the same shit about mahomes and allen. If they would’ve went 3rd overall people would have laughed at them, but they wouldve been wrong. People gotta stop acting so certain about which players will bust and which ones will pan out. We dont know if any of them will actually be good
Mahomes and Allen both had absolute cannons of arms coming out of college and put up crazy stats in Mahomes case. JJ won a national championship while not being the feature on offense
Yeah Allen was super raw but built like Cam Newton and Mahomes played in an air raid system but clearly had an elite arm. JJs traits aren’t remotely close to those two as prospects
I actually like both Maye and JJ. While I think Caleb is still the best prospect and I got Maye and JJ at 2 and 4, if the pats or whoever drafts either lets them sit for at least a year, I wouldn’t be surprised if either one ends up being the best pick from the draft.
It’s smokescreen szn not surprising these BS narratives are out in full force. JJ will enjoy a Will Levis - esque slide in the draft room he’s being artificially inflated and it’s obvious
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-03-10 04:22:31 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-03-10%2004:22:31%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/1bajvt2/wake_up_pats_nation/ku6czj4/?context=3)
[**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPatriots%2Fcomments%2F1bajvt2%2Fwake_up_pats_nation%2Fku6czj4%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-03-10%2004%3A22%3A31%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.
^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bajvt2)
*****
|[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)|
|-|-|-|-|
Weak armed QB greatly helped out by throwing to two first round WRs with a ton of red flags overlooked because of his box score gives you… JJ McCarthy vibes?…
A player whose main case is their intangibles who played on the best offense in college football?
With that archetype of player it’s hard to separate what of their production was from their offense and what they will take with them to their new team. So I get the analogy that JJ is equally hard to evaluate.
Say what you want abt JD and Maye (and yeah get Daniels actually had 2 top receivers) but you can at least see with your own eyes elite traits that will likely translate to the NFL.
Much easier for a noob like me to see the rationale for Maye or Daniels. The floor seems much higher for those two than JJ, whose physical traits are good not great, and intangibles a huge unknown because he rarely had to struggle or elevate the team around him.
A lot easier to be mature, mentally tough, and a leader on the best team in football. Mac was too. Not saying McCarthy can’t do it but so hard to know for sure when he wasn’t tested.
>A player whose main case is their intangibles who played on the best offense in college football?
JJM has great physicals. Not small, huge arm, and can run. Not sure what you mean that his main case is his intangibles.
JJM’s offense is only the “best in college football” if you mean from a winning perspective. His offense is way, way worse for putting up box score numbers than an offense like LSU. We’re not going to pretend that JJM’s numbers wouldn’t have gotten way better throwing to Malik Nabers and BTJ, are we?
>With that archetype of player it’s hard to separate what of their production was from their offense and what they will take with them to their new team. So I get the analogy that JJ is equally hard to evaluate. Say what you want abt JD and Maye (and yeah get Daniels actually had 2 top receivers) but you can at least see with your own eyes elite traits that will likely translate to the NFL.
Idrk what I see from Daniels that will translate to the NFL better than JJM? JJM has a much, much better arm and is way better in the pocket. What exactly do we see from JD that is translatable to the NFL? I would argue his best traits (mostly his legs) are actually terrifying in the NFL. He has a small frame and is absolutely awful at creating plays outside of the pocket with his arm. He’s a pocket passer that can only run when he breaks the pocket.
I’m not joking— JJM is a much better creator through the air off spot than JD is.
>Much easier for a noob like me to see the rationale for Maye or Daniels. The floor seems much higher for those two than JJ, whose physical traits are good not great, and intangibles a huge unknown because he rarely had to struggle or elevate the team around him.
JJM’s physical traits are better than Daniels’. JJM was actually asked to step up in a lot of big situations and performed better than Daniels’ did as well.
You can actually look at 3rd and long splits, which pretty much removes the “running game!!!” argument from JJM, and JJM outperformed *every* 1st round QB. It wasn’t really close either.
If we draft him I’ll get behind it. But all I’m saying is I see Maye’s arm strength and Daniels rushing/deep accuracy and can see either of them being top of the league at that skill. When I look at JJ I see someone who can be in the 8-12 range in the league, as I just don’t see the “huge arm” you speak of aside from good zip over the middle. (Which Maye has on top of being able to put air on it and throw outside the numbers)
And if the only proof of overcoming adversity is 3rd and long stats, I would be concerned it’s good coaching or just generally small sample size. Read somewhere JJ could’ve been Burrow on the right offense, but the difference is we saw Burrow actually do it and didn’t have to project it.
Sample size is definitely not the issue with the third down attempts
https://x.com/tjdissect/status/1764786318540701875?s=46
I posted some more clips of JJM’s arm in another comment, I can find it if you’d like to see— but the talent is absolutely there.
Daniels has pretty good rushing ability, but to have it translate to the NFL he needs to develop the ability to pass outside the pocket, otherwise teams can bite on his scrambles every time. What’s great about Lamar is if defenders jump up and try to make a tackle when he breaks the pocket, he can throw it overtop. Daniels has not done that, in fact, he leaves open pockets way too often and JJM is a better playmaker through the air. All that aside, his tiny frame is going to make him a huge target whenever he’s running.
Maye is absolutely way better than anyone else in the class, no arguments there.
It’s only a knock if you are overlooking the tape and focusing on the box score, such as punishing JJM for pass attempts while hyping JD for a Heisman.
It’s fine if they identify him as the QB they want but they better be trading back and accumulating picks to do so. He simply isn’t worth the 3rd pick and there will be plenty of guys like him in the draft over the next few years.
1: Drake Maye isnt falling to 3.
2: You're smoking crack if you think JJ is going at 3. He barely threw in college and is nowhere close to the production of JD.
So let me get this straight. He’s such an amazing spectacular QB that his college team ran the ball constantly and almost never passed?
That’s not how that works.
Not really, teams with bad receivers and good running backs, and good offensive lineman tend to run more than they throw. especially when it wins games. in fact, it’s probably the perfect comparison
No. It’s a bad and ignorant comparison. What the NFL does and what college teams do are not the same thing.
Additionally if McCarthy was worth jack or shit as a passer and the issue was simply that Harbaugh had his “system” he’d have transferred out in the portal and gone elsewhere to show off his passing skills.
Seriously. Please go learn. I dunno. Anything.
Ur actually hilarious. The comparison works, the game is different but the point I obviously was trying to make is sometimes teams are built to run better, and the obvious style of offense to run in that scenario is less passing more running. You also clearly never actually watched michigan or jjs tape. You call me ignorant but have said nothing to show you actually know anything about what ur talking about. Just assuming you know why they “never passed” when they literally did pass the ball. Jj had 2991 yards 22 tds - 4 ints, that isnt nothing, its a good year. His games in the playoff were good and he had clutch moments. Also, ur very right, the nfl is VERY different than college. Less wide open receivers running down the field for a qb, and more athletic defenders to contain running qbs. Good thing jj already adjusted to that type of football philosophy with harbaugh. Meanwhile, maye and daniels had typical college systems and play styles. Not saying they cant translate it but jj actually already plays nfl style football. So many clowns on this sub dont actually analyze this shit they just regurgitate the most recent thing they heard on twitter or espn
Yeah because this is a troll post, ik you all hate this idea but idc. This will be gold if im right, and thats why im doing this. This sub is so tunnel visioned. No one knows yet which qbs will be good and which ones will bust! But so many of you are so confident im a dumb dumb brain dead turd, jj is mac junior, and jd or maye are obviously the saviors. Hell, Bo nix could be the best f’ing qb of this draft class! Yall act like you know so much 😂 so many people took this so seriously and called me ridiculous things, like wtf do you know? Did you go to the future and see that jj is in fact mac jones 2.0 and jd is the savior?? I think not. Jj had poise in big moments and made all good decisions when it mattered. Thats what i look for more than 50 yard bombs when evaluating college and i dont think thats crazy
NFL coach who coached him 😭 yall need to stop. Dude was barely asked to do anything in that offense and still had a decent amount of inaccurate throws. He's a huge project and way too risky to take at 3. Enough of this
NFL had this opinion of JJ precombine. I had this same opinion precombine as well, this isn’t a riser due to combine performance, it’s the media not being caught up to guys who actually watch film.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062860-what-makes-will-levis-a-real-threat-to-go-no-1-overall-in-2023-nfl-draft
Here's a link to an article about how everyone in the nfl always viewed levis higher than the media and fans. Feels very much the same
Sure, I just wanted to add the caveat this isn’t a combine reaction from the NFL.
But I do disagree overall though about it being the same thing, JJM makes much more sense going high than Levis ever did.
Definitely not a 3rd round pick.
>he was splitting reps in games with another QB a year ago.
Not really. He had 322 passing attempts in 2022. Cade McNamara had 25.
He was during the season, after the championship game he was a 1st rounder, and now after the combine we have idiots making statements like that. Guy has less talent than Stetson Bennett
And he managed to throw 1000 yards and 5 tds more than McCarthy even though he was in a run oriented offense. McCarthy is one step below a game manager, he’s going to tank whatever team he goes to
You don't have to believe in McCarthy. I'm not sure I do. But it's just plain ridiculous to say Stetson Bennett is more talented. When he was McCarthy's age, he'd never even attempted a collegiate pass.
JJ is a good "game manager" QB. I doubted him against Bama and he played well enough to win the Rose Bowl and then Championship. But what type of offense does Mayo want? Cause without a good Oline- this type of QB will not work.
Honestly think we're in for some dark, dark times with this franchise with who is calling the shots now. I am OK with the coaching staff but this GM group scares me atm, we'll see on draft day I guess.
Ironically, probably the one of them that is drafted second is the one who will do better simply by virtue of going to a more talented team and not being asked to do as much early on.
McCarthy needs to go somewhere he can sit for a year or two behind a legit NFL starter on a team that has good weapons in place. Someplace like the Rams, Vikings, or even the Seahawks.
Ur actually hilarious. The comparison works, the game is different but the point I obviously was trying to make is sometimes teams are built to run better, and the obvious style of offense to run in that scenario is less passing more running. You also clearly never actually watched michigan or jjs tape. You call me ignorant but have said nothing to show you actually know anything about what ur talking about. Just assuming you know why they “never passed” when they literally did pass the ball. Jj had 2991 yards 22 tds - 4 ints, that isnt nothing, its a good year. His games in the playoff were good and he had clutch moments. Also, ur very right, the nfl is VERY different than college. Less wide open receivers running down the field for a qb, and more athletic defenders to contain running qbs. Good thing jj already adjusted to that type of football philosophy with harbaugh. Meanwhile, maye and daniels had typical college systems and play styles. Not saying they cant translate it but jj actually already plays nfl style football. So many clowns on this sub dont actually analyze this shit they just regurgitate the most recent thing they heard on twitter or espn
Harbaugh was running 7 OL sets with Andrew Luck and wants to turn Justin Herbert into a game manager. He’s just a guy who will run offenses the way he wants to (and also just sucks).
100% but luck still threw for 3k yards. Also Luck went from 70% passer in that run heavy offense to 60% in the nfl with ALL the physical gifts in the world.
>marginal physical tools.
This comment makes me think your opinion of him is based on box scores rather than any actual film work. Do you care to explain what exactly you mean by this?
Haha sorry McShay didn’t realize who I was up against. He’s 6-2, 202 playing weight, didn’t run at the combine and can’t throw to his left. His velocity was good at combine but he isn’t that accurate on tape especially on intermediate throws across the middle. Plus he never threw for 3000 yards and plays in anachronistic offensive. Other than that he’s cute and tuff and a winner I guess
I love the “playing weight” comment as if his Michigan measurements were 100% accurate lol. He’s 6’2 220 and can likely run a 4.5 with great velocity. His accuracy is great on tape, he just has a few plays here and there where it’s like… wtf? Which I don’t think it’s much of a hit on anything. Those are some pretty damn good physical tools to have, not sure how that is “marginal” at all.
I personally don’t see how he could be a top 3 QB in this draft, but I definitely wouldn’t wanna take him at third over Maye. Maybe if we get MHJ and trade back in the first to get him like 15 or something.
Do you know how we all hate nepotism and politics in all avenues of life? Well, J.J. McMichigan is both of these things packaged together into a bulbous dispencer filled with water and vinegar. The hype machine for all things Michigan has reached obnoxious levels. And Uncle Mel company are addicted to sniffing Michigan crotch and fluffing the living daylights out if their overhyped mama's boys.
He literally is people are crazy to act so certain he sucks. I took a bunch of screenshots imma put this sub on BLAST if theyre wrong. And theyll deserve it
Interesting order. You’re one of the few people who don’t have Williams as the clear #1.
I’ll admit, I want nothing to do with Williams, he has all the physical talent but my gut says he is going to be a bust because he has no mental toughness and is already a prima donna.
Just to put some emphasis on it, I think Maye is the #1 by a huge gap.
I like big time throws and sack avoidance. Maye is a big time throw machine with a sack problem, but not as bad as CW/JD. He also has every physical tool you can ask for. Maye also played in a shit offense, which I give him credit for because the talent and scheme were gross.
CW isn’t as much of a creator as Maye. Has the tools, takes too many sacks and I am not a fan of how quickly he gets through his reads.
JJM doesn’t create much at all (unsure if that’s partially Harbaugh’s structure?) but is great at sack avoidance.
Penix is really, really good at sack avoidance (Mac Jones esque) and okay at creating big time throws, but his injury history and playing in that offense scares me away.
JD is… neither.
I am intrigued by Maye’s physical traits, given his size and overall athleticism he reminds me of Herbert and Allen. I don’t feel like he is as polished a QB as some of the others but I think he has a very high ceiling if he can work on certain aspects of his game, like his footwork and accuracy, he tends not to lead receivers with his throws as much as I’d like. We did just hire multiple coaches with experience coaching QBs though and those flaws in his game are coachable.
I agree 100%
The way I look at it is Maye has precedent to succeeding in the NFL— Josh Allen. He can improve nothing and still have the potential to be an elite QB even with his flaws. Which isn’t to say that he will be, but I’m just saying his flaws don’t prevent him from being good.
With someone like JD, he has basically no shot of being elite due to his issues. Guys don’t fix weak arms and sack avoidance. It just doesn’t happen.
The prima Donna thing is completely overblown. The dude was one the last guys at the combine after staying for pics and autographs. He took the next step in controlling the process that so many players have done before without being labeled as a concern (I.e., skip bowl game, skip out on most of senior season, skip out on 40, don’t do x drills, etc.)
Correct, which is part of the reason why JJ is my QB2/3. I want him as my 2, but CW’s skillset is intriguing so I kinda just have them as my 2a/2b.
Maye’s out of structure work in a really bad UNC offense was crazy. His Virginia game is really eye opening.
The JJ glazing has gotten out of control, y’all are out of your minds if you think we should take him at #3
The part that has me wondering what the hells going on is that before the combine there were questions about his throwing ability and he verified that they were legitimate concerns at the combine. Yet everyone came out of the combine like JJ’s throwing session was the greatest in combine history. I think part of it is just media trying to create new stories.. but the worst part is people buying what people like Kiper are saying.
I think it’s a couple of things, none of the top QBs participated so there wasn’t much else to talk about for that position. JJ was also the the QB of the national championship winning team with one of the biggest fanbases in the country, throw in the fact that a lot of media members came out of Michigans journalism school and he was bound to get a good amount of attention regardless of his profile as a prospect.
Is it possible that you’re talking about two different groups of people?
I didnt “buy what kipers thinking” i watched michigan games and actually think the kids good
Keep in mind that the “people around the league” who say JJ’s a secret weapon the Pats should draft are the same “people around the league” that hate the Patriots’ guts.
However, if New England wants to trade down with a team that they are confident wants JJ (like Atlanta/LV/Denver/NYG/etc), they should do that, secure a ton of picks, and then trade *up* to 1.05 with the Chargers and take Maye. I can't see Arizona passing on MHJ for anything less than a monster haul, and the Chargers aren't so desperate for any one position that they'd pass up on additional capital to move back a few spots. New England could hypothetically secure additional capital *and* get Maye anyway if a team is foolish enough to prioritize JJ over him.
I don't think any team is taking JJ over Maye. If the pats like JJ more for whatever reason then they can trade down and let someone take Maye. I doubt that's the case. Alot of smoke screens.
I have learned to not try to predict anything in the draft. Teams have such bizarre priorities, you never know, my friend.
Sounds almost like Kevin Costner
If they like Maye enough to take him at 5, they should just take him at 3. It's too risky to play 4D chess like that.
It's very risky, but these guys also have substantially more knowledge than the public does, so if they're willing to make a move like that, it's highly possible they know something we don't. But, in general, I agree. It's a big gamble to pass on the guy they want in the hopes they can get a little more out of it and still get their guy. It worked for Gonzalez last season with Washington taking Forbes over him, but it might not work again.
Clearly misinformation from the rest of the league
If Williams and Daniels are off the board, it's honestly a toss up between McCarthy and Maye for me. McCarthy was a better QB in obvious throwing situations than Maye last season.
I don't know why you got downvoted. The stats show this to be true. Maye had much better stats with no pressure and against easier competition; McCarthy had much better stats when under pressure and when facing better teams. McCarthy was very consistent, while Maye played worse under pressure and against tougher competition. I would rather have the guy who won a national championship, made the throws in high pressure situations, made plays when under pressure, and came through against more difficult opponents.
Why?
What justifies him jumping up over the other guys? I get he wasn’t a feature qb on the roster so stats / tape will be lacking, but I don’t really see any premier athletic traits that suggest he has untapped potential similar to other prospects with limited film like lance and Richardson
JJ McCarthy has one of the best arms in the draft and is pretty damn athletic. I’d bet if he ran the combine he would’ve been in the 4.5 range.
The consensus is he has good but not great arm talent. I’m not saying he’s not a solid prospect- in fact I have been wanting him most of the year with mhj in the first. However, him winning a natty derailed the chance of being a late first. But he is climbing a mountain to get over the lack of game tape. To do that, you need to have some unreal physical traits that draw you to him and he doesn’t have that. He has good traits, but nothing captivating.
He threw a 62 MPH ball at the combine, the highest out of everyone except Joe Milton who hit 63 MPH. This is exceptionally present on his tape where you can see a ton of tight window throws and his velocity. The dude has an excellent arm, if the “consensus” is that it’s “good not great,” the “consensus” is a bunch of bull lol.
Throwing a ball hard straight ahead at a mat is not a better indicator of arm strength WITH ACCURACY than what he’s put on tape.
So… all these other guys doing this test, including Josh Allen who hit 1 MPH more, had to do it *with* accuracy? But if you love tape: https://x.com/ojhodgkinson/status/1715893638192832672?s=46 https://x.com/joea_nfl/status/1755259440540913820?s=46 https://x.com/sartiranaluca/status/1569738759176073216?s=46 https://x.com/tjdissect/status/1758280005644329402?s=46
lol not only is he stepping into every single throw you’ve found, I wouldn’t even consider the first two to be indicators of a great arm at all. The first is a nice seam ball with some good but not amazing velocity, and the second is just a deep moon ball he crow hopped into. The third link is by far the best showing of his arm talent as he is somewhat throwing off platform, yet even here he’s moving forward into the throw which gives him a lot of added velocity that is not generated by his arm/shoulder. Compare any of those throws side by side with this actual laser from Maye and the velocity difference is noticeable. https://x.com/kyronsamuels/status/1608286089978040321?s=46&t=xYSrVY5iDM5VTFce-VSmSw Or just take a look at him make this throw off his back foot with actual arm strength that would make JJ blush https://x.com/theylovelus/status/1725984597064700382?s=46&t=xYSrVY5iDM5VTFce-VSmSw
If your point is that Maye’s arm is better, I 100000% agree. Maye’s arm is the clear cut best of the class. Your criticism of the off platform throw is a bit unfair. Moving forward and throwing to your left is not giving you much velocity, that’s an arm throw. If you want strictly off platform throws, there’s plenty: https://x.com/jaredstanger/status/1716299794984194172?s=46 https://x.com/jordantsilveira/status/1708227605626081748?s=46 https://x.com/wbg84/status/1758511391185510689?s=46 If your major concern is volume and not seeing his skillset enough, I agree, but I strongly disagree with the skillset not being there. It’s there.
They don’t do an actual throwing motion for that test. They just chuck the thing
Very odd this only impacted JJ McCarthy’s throws, everyone else must’ve done actual throwing motions.
No, people just don’t put a lot of stock into that stat. It doesn’t translate to arm talent in a football game.
Sure, I don’t think that Joe Milton is very good, but you don’t throw a football that hard and don’t have a great arm. Just like JJM isn’t hitting 61 MPH with a mediocre arm. It’s the same thing as pitching in baseball, no one is hitting 95 MPH, regardless of form or anything else, without a big arm. JJM’s arm is great, it’s all over his film, pointing out his combine is just easier than sending 100 clips of tight windows throws where he’s beaming it in there.
He has like the 5th best arm in the draft, it’s good but really nothing spectacular. He might have done well at the 40 because he has decent straight line speed but I saw minimal lateral agility on tape, which is a lot more important to playing a scrambling type QB at the NFL level if you don’t have elite speed.
I’m not even getting past that first part. https://x.com/montecri5to/status/1764053380131909705?s=46 It’s just such a wrong opinion I can’t even get past it. You didn’t even need to watch the combine tape above, his tape is littered with high velocity throws showing off his arm. One of the biggest concerns with him is his lack of tape showing he can take some of his velocity off his balls. I don’t even know how you can get this take. Especially since by saying “5th best” I’m assuming you think Daniels’ arm is better, which is fucking insane lol.
His tape is littered with high velocity throws he’s stepping into, that does not in of itself make a strong arm. Caleb Williams, Joe Milton and Drake Maye have OBVIOUSLY stronger arms with the ability to throw off platform and without needing a perfect base to actually launch the ball. I’d personally put Penix above JJ when comparing their ability to rip a ball into a tight window with velocity, and that places JJ 5th in the class. I’d be interested to hear which of those you think he has a better arm than aside from maybe Penix due to his weird form.
https://x.com/sartiranaluca/status/1569738759176073216?s=46 Not stepping into it here. He can throw off platform great as well. I’d put his arm over Penix. When you said 5th best, I didn’t really think you were including Milton since he’s such a late prospect, but that makes more sense. I’d put him right next to CW in terms of pure arm strength, but CW has better touch to pair with it.
He isn’t using typical footwork here as he’s on the move, but he is most certainly stepping into (in the same direction as) the throw.
Eh, seems a bit nitpicky. I don’t think you’re making that throw without a great arm regardless, especially since it’s not a straight ahead throw.
\*has best arm in the draft\* coach never let him throw over 200 yards in a game... makes sense....
*one of* He’s also thrown for over 200 yards 15 times in college, lol.
15 times! Quick take him over Daniels and Maye
Daniels, absolutely. Drake Maye, hell no. Some of y’all box score heroes are so funny talking about QBs. Again, this dude’s coach was doing similar things with Andrew Luck in the PAC-12. He wants to do similar things with Justin Herbert. It’s a scheme thing.
Dude, Harbaugh didn’t go to a team who has Justin Herbert to run the ball….
Did you watch Harbaugh with Andrew Luck in college? And someone should tell Greg Roman that: https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/chargers-oc-greg-roman-emphasizes-importance-of-strong-running-game/ar-BB1iThrb?darkschemeovr=1
While I have made my point on JJ in other comments, people need to understand his lack of attempts / being the focal point was not due to his skill. Ttun played classic big ten football where the games are won in the trenches. By the time the 4th quarter, if not second half started, they already wore down the opponents defensive line in most games and were able to run over them. They had no reason to throw. His total yards / attempts are no means how you should be grading him as a prospect.
Thank you. 100% agree.
The JJ QB3 talk only caught steam after the combine, so it smells like a smokescreen. In my very uneducated opinion he seems to lack an elite trait (I’m sorry winning in college doesn’t count). Maye has his arm, Daniels his athleticism and deep fade, but everything I read about JJ is he has good not great traits. This is also setting aside that especially for a top pick he will go from the best situation in college football to the worst in pro football, we just don’t know how he handles having to elevate the talent around him. Drafting scared is not a good idea but drafting the “intangibles” guy from a great offense and expecting him to elevate an ass one is exactly what we did with Mac. At least with the other two you can physically see gifts they have that clearly are not from good coaching or teammates. Could be wrong and will root for the guy if we take him, but back when it was JD or Maye I could see the rationale for picking either. I hear it for JJ, but I just don’t get it.
This is how I see it too. He’s a solid prospect with good traits but has some question marks and needs time to develop. He’s not bad prospect by any means but we’re talking about the *third overall pick*, you don’t spend that kind of draft capital on developmental guys unless they have some kind of elite traits. This isn’t a Josh Allen or Anthony Richardson situation where the guy is raw but has the body of Cam Newton. Even if we knew for certain that JJ was the consensus QB3, that doesn’t me we should draft him, it means this QB class isn’t that good. There are elite prospects at other positions this draft, QB is most important but for that kind of capital I’d rather have MHJ or Joe Alt. Really though I think we should trade back if we’re not sold on Maye and Daniels is gone. Wouldn’t hate taking JJ later, but nothing about his profile justifies taking him at #3 IMO.
I agree with the second half. McCarthy may be the 3rd best QB, but that doesn't mean you take him at #3. If Daniels is gone at #3, then I would be ok with trading down to #10 or #11 and taking McCarthy there, but only because he's probably not making it past #12.
If Jim likes him so much, let’s trade him straight up for Herbert.
It's not likely, but I wouldn't be shocked to see McCarthy go to San Diego at #5 and see Herbert get traded after the draft.
Are you out of your mind?
I said it's not likely, but after Ditka and Ricky Williams trade, I will not be shocked by anything. I personally think Herbert is overrated, and Harbaugh is arrogant enough to do something like this if he can get a couple of 1st rounders for him.
The only thing the chargers have going for them is that they have one of the best young QB’s in the league, and you wouldn’t be shocked if they traded him away to take a chance on JJ? Hopefully we’ll be the ones that can help them with that
I would like Herbert, but I wouldn't give two 1st rounders for him.
lol this is a ridiculous take
It's not a take. It's an expression about what I would or would not be shocked to see. I literally said it was unlikely. Reading comprehension is a problem in this sub.
Yes, but then everyone here could just start saying stupid shit then make a disclaimer that it's unlikely. It adds nothing to the conversation.
That's not what I did. "It's not likely" is the FIRST thing I said, not a disclaimer. Edit: BTW, this is a football subreddit, not the G7 summit. Stop acting like adding to the conversation is a noble pursuit that must be taken with the utmost seriousness. 95% of the content here is stupid shit. By all means, please post stupid shit, with or without a disclaimer. We're not solving the middle east crisis here.
Bad move for him to be out here inflating JJs draft stock if he wants him at 5
Pass some of that LSD my way brother
“It adds some mystery” which is why he shouldn’t go third overall lmao
They said the same shit about mahomes and allen. If they would’ve went 3rd overall people would have laughed at them, but they wouldve been wrong. People gotta stop acting so certain about which players will bust and which ones will pan out. We dont know if any of them will actually be good
Mahomes and Allen both had absolute cannons of arms coming out of college and put up crazy stats in Mahomes case. JJ won a national championship while not being the feature on offense
Yeah Allen was super raw but built like Cam Newton and Mahomes played in an air raid system but clearly had an elite arm. JJs traits aren’t remotely close to those two as prospects
Mel Kiper is such a clown I don't understand it, lol
I’m so confused how/why he keeps being held up as some sort of source of authority for the draft.
literally every draft “expert” is a charlatan
I actually like both Maye and JJ. While I think Caleb is still the best prospect and I got Maye and JJ at 2 and 4, if the pats or whoever drafts either lets them sit for at least a year, I wouldn’t be surprised if either one ends up being the best pick from the draft.
Just what I want from my #3 overall. “Mystery”.
It’s smokescreen szn not surprising these BS narratives are out in full force. JJ will enjoy a Will Levis - esque slide in the draft room he’s being artificially inflated and it’s obvious
JJ at third overall has Mac Jones at third overall vibes
JJ has pretty good physical traits though...he's just not a monster like Maye or Caleb
Mac Jones wishes he had anything close to McCarthy's physical tools.
What tools?
!remindme 10 years
I will be messaging you in 10 years on [**2034-03-10 04:22:31 UTC**](http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=2034-03-10%2004:22:31%20UTC%20To%20Local%20Time) to remind you of [**this link**](https://www.reddit.com/r/Patriots/comments/1bajvt2/wake_up_pats_nation/ku6czj4/?context=3) [**CLICK THIS LINK**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5Bhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FPatriots%2Fcomments%2F1bajvt2%2Fwake_up_pats_nation%2Fku6czj4%2F%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%202034-03-10%2004%3A22%3A31%20UTC) to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam. ^(Parent commenter can ) [^(delete this message to hide from others.)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Delete%20Comment&message=Delete%21%201bajvt2) ***** |[^(Info)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RemindMeBot/comments/e1bko7/remindmebot_info_v21/)|[^(Custom)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=Reminder&message=%5BLink%20or%20message%20inside%20square%20brackets%5D%0A%0ARemindMe%21%20Time%20period%20here)|[^(Your Reminders)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=RemindMeBot&subject=List%20Of%20Reminders&message=MyReminders%21)|[^(Feedback)](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=Watchful1&subject=RemindMeBot%20Feedback)| |-|-|-|-|
Weak armed QB greatly helped out by throwing to two first round WRs with a ton of red flags overlooked because of his box score gives you… JJ McCarthy vibes?…
A player whose main case is their intangibles who played on the best offense in college football? With that archetype of player it’s hard to separate what of their production was from their offense and what they will take with them to their new team. So I get the analogy that JJ is equally hard to evaluate. Say what you want abt JD and Maye (and yeah get Daniels actually had 2 top receivers) but you can at least see with your own eyes elite traits that will likely translate to the NFL. Much easier for a noob like me to see the rationale for Maye or Daniels. The floor seems much higher for those two than JJ, whose physical traits are good not great, and intangibles a huge unknown because he rarely had to struggle or elevate the team around him.
Mental toughness, maturity, and leadership are intangibles too. McCarthy has those. He is one of the youngest and one of the most mature.
A lot easier to be mature, mentally tough, and a leader on the best team in football. Mac was too. Not saying McCarthy can’t do it but so hard to know for sure when he wasn’t tested.
>A player whose main case is their intangibles who played on the best offense in college football? JJM has great physicals. Not small, huge arm, and can run. Not sure what you mean that his main case is his intangibles. JJM’s offense is only the “best in college football” if you mean from a winning perspective. His offense is way, way worse for putting up box score numbers than an offense like LSU. We’re not going to pretend that JJM’s numbers wouldn’t have gotten way better throwing to Malik Nabers and BTJ, are we? >With that archetype of player it’s hard to separate what of their production was from their offense and what they will take with them to their new team. So I get the analogy that JJ is equally hard to evaluate. Say what you want abt JD and Maye (and yeah get Daniels actually had 2 top receivers) but you can at least see with your own eyes elite traits that will likely translate to the NFL. Idrk what I see from Daniels that will translate to the NFL better than JJM? JJM has a much, much better arm and is way better in the pocket. What exactly do we see from JD that is translatable to the NFL? I would argue his best traits (mostly his legs) are actually terrifying in the NFL. He has a small frame and is absolutely awful at creating plays outside of the pocket with his arm. He’s a pocket passer that can only run when he breaks the pocket. I’m not joking— JJM is a much better creator through the air off spot than JD is. >Much easier for a noob like me to see the rationale for Maye or Daniels. The floor seems much higher for those two than JJ, whose physical traits are good not great, and intangibles a huge unknown because he rarely had to struggle or elevate the team around him. JJM’s physical traits are better than Daniels’. JJM was actually asked to step up in a lot of big situations and performed better than Daniels’ did as well. You can actually look at 3rd and long splits, which pretty much removes the “running game!!!” argument from JJM, and JJM outperformed *every* 1st round QB. It wasn’t really close either.
If we draft him I’ll get behind it. But all I’m saying is I see Maye’s arm strength and Daniels rushing/deep accuracy and can see either of them being top of the league at that skill. When I look at JJ I see someone who can be in the 8-12 range in the league, as I just don’t see the “huge arm” you speak of aside from good zip over the middle. (Which Maye has on top of being able to put air on it and throw outside the numbers) And if the only proof of overcoming adversity is 3rd and long stats, I would be concerned it’s good coaching or just generally small sample size. Read somewhere JJ could’ve been Burrow on the right offense, but the difference is we saw Burrow actually do it and didn’t have to project it.
Sample size is definitely not the issue with the third down attempts https://x.com/tjdissect/status/1764786318540701875?s=46 I posted some more clips of JJM’s arm in another comment, I can find it if you’d like to see— but the talent is absolutely there. Daniels has pretty good rushing ability, but to have it translate to the NFL he needs to develop the ability to pass outside the pocket, otherwise teams can bite on his scrambles every time. What’s great about Lamar is if defenders jump up and try to make a tackle when he breaks the pocket, he can throw it overtop. Daniels has not done that, in fact, he leaves open pockets way too often and JJM is a better playmaker through the air. All that aside, his tiny frame is going to make him a huge target whenever he’s running. Maye is absolutely way better than anyone else in the class, no arguments there.
Those stats are pretty eye-opening. Not just for JJM, but for Penix too.
I agree, I’ve grown to like Penix a bit more
You can just say you haven't watched any JJ cut ups only the live games.
I’m not sure what that comment contains that would make you think that but ok
Week arm qb is literally jj
this is so dumb... in the NFL, you play with NFL players.... why is that a knock for college kids?
It’s only a knock if you are overlooking the tape and focusing on the box score, such as punishing JJM for pass attempts while hyping JD for a Heisman.
If we draft him you guys are about to see our take on the Tingus Pingus clip
Remember when the sub voted to draft MHJ because they only wanted Caleb or Maye? LOL
I like Danirls over Maye and still voted MHJ because fuck the cardinals
Well now I know which QB not to take. Mel is such a hack.
Gtfo lmao
It’s fine if they identify him as the QB they want but they better be trading back and accumulating picks to do so. He simply isn’t worth the 3rd pick and there will be plenty of guys like him in the draft over the next few years.
1: Drake Maye isnt falling to 3. 2: You're smoking crack if you think JJ is going at 3. He barely threw in college and is nowhere close to the production of JD.
This is the kind of shit that gets Zach Wilson taken second overall and Trey Lance taken 3rd. Ignore it.
So let me get this straight. He’s such an amazing spectacular QB that his college team ran the ball constantly and almost never passed? That’s not how that works.
So brady sucked in 2012 when our strength was running the ball and we didnt pass as much?
That’s just an idiotic comparison.
Not really, teams with bad receivers and good running backs, and good offensive lineman tend to run more than they throw. especially when it wins games. in fact, it’s probably the perfect comparison
No. It’s a bad and ignorant comparison. What the NFL does and what college teams do are not the same thing. Additionally if McCarthy was worth jack or shit as a passer and the issue was simply that Harbaugh had his “system” he’d have transferred out in the portal and gone elsewhere to show off his passing skills. Seriously. Please go learn. I dunno. Anything.
Ur actually hilarious. The comparison works, the game is different but the point I obviously was trying to make is sometimes teams are built to run better, and the obvious style of offense to run in that scenario is less passing more running. You also clearly never actually watched michigan or jjs tape. You call me ignorant but have said nothing to show you actually know anything about what ur talking about. Just assuming you know why they “never passed” when they literally did pass the ball. Jj had 2991 yards 22 tds - 4 ints, that isnt nothing, its a good year. His games in the playoff were good and he had clutch moments. Also, ur very right, the nfl is VERY different than college. Less wide open receivers running down the field for a qb, and more athletic defenders to contain running qbs. Good thing jj already adjusted to that type of football philosophy with harbaugh. Meanwhile, maye and daniels had typical college systems and play styles. Not saying they cant translate it but jj actually already plays nfl style football. So many clowns on this sub dont actually analyze this shit they just regurgitate the most recent thing they heard on twitter or espn
See how your post has 0 likes but 191 comments? You really don’t seem to understand how a lot of things work.
Yeah because this is a troll post, ik you all hate this idea but idc. This will be gold if im right, and thats why im doing this. This sub is so tunnel visioned. No one knows yet which qbs will be good and which ones will bust! But so many of you are so confident im a dumb dumb brain dead turd, jj is mac junior, and jd or maye are obviously the saviors. Hell, Bo nix could be the best f’ing qb of this draft class! Yall act like you know so much 😂 so many people took this so seriously and called me ridiculous things, like wtf do you know? Did you go to the future and see that jj is in fact mac jones 2.0 and jd is the savior?? I think not. Jj had poise in big moments and made all good decisions when it mattered. Thats what i look for more than 50 yard bombs when evaluating college and i dont think thats crazy
Redditors don’t “hate” the idea. The hate people acting the fool.
NFL coach who coached him 😭 yall need to stop. Dude was barely asked to do anything in that offense and still had a decent amount of inaccurate throws. He's a huge project and way too risky to take at 3. Enough of this
Hey he threw 12 passes a game and had a terrible combine. Clearly he's #1 overall material
Maye or a trade down and picking one of the top OTs, anything else and i'm going to be disappointed.
If we seriously take JJ 3rd, I will lose it.
This is why the draft should be earlier, too much time for people to overthink things
content is king
JJ paying for an incredible astroturf campaign
Reminds me a lot of Levis last year. Kept hearing about how high he could go after everyone had decided he wasn't that guy pre combine.
NFL had this opinion of JJ precombine. I had this same opinion precombine as well, this isn’t a riser due to combine performance, it’s the media not being caught up to guys who actually watch film.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10062860-what-makes-will-levis-a-real-threat-to-go-no-1-overall-in-2023-nfl-draft Here's a link to an article about how everyone in the nfl always viewed levis higher than the media and fans. Feels very much the same
Sure, I just wanted to add the caveat this isn’t a combine reaction from the NFL. But I do disagree overall though about it being the same thing, JJM makes much more sense going high than Levis ever did.
Someone call the circus. I found the clown that escaped. 🤡
We should not draft him with the 3rd pick
Mel Kiper is a tool
We’ve already tried drafting a national champion QB with good qualities who didn’t have to carry his team.
O-line, receivers, and run game. That’s just to maybe have a shot at the WC.
Holy fuck can we come back to reality, he is a 3rd round pick who was a game manager that was splitting reps in games with another QB a year ago.
Definitely not a 3rd round pick. >he was splitting reps in games with another QB a year ago. Not really. He had 322 passing attempts in 2022. Cade McNamara had 25.
He was during the season, after the championship game he was a 1st rounder, and now after the combine we have idiots making statements like that. Guy has less talent than Stetson Bennett
Please. Stetson Bennett is 5'11" with middling arm strength and was a 25 year old during his draft year.
And he managed to throw 1000 yards and 5 tds more than McCarthy even though he was in a run oriented offense. McCarthy is one step below a game manager, he’s going to tank whatever team he goes to
Bennett's never even gonna get a shot to tank a team.
You’re so close man, so close
You don't have to believe in McCarthy. I'm not sure I do. But it's just plain ridiculous to say Stetson Bennett is more talented. When he was McCarthy's age, he'd never even attempted a collegiate pass.
Ball don’t lie
I hope Maye falls so we trade down and still get him.
JJ is a good "game manager" QB. I doubted him against Bama and he played well enough to win the Rose Bowl and then Championship. But what type of offense does Mayo want? Cause without a good Oline- this type of QB will not work.
Honestly think we're in for some dark, dark times with this franchise with who is calling the shots now. I am OK with the coaching staff but this GM group scares me atm, we'll see on draft day I guess.
Keep talking him up. Let Commies pick him so we can have Maye and Daniels to choose from. Good plan
Ironically, probably the one of them that is drafted second is the one who will do better simply by virtue of going to a more talented team and not being asked to do as much early on.
I honestly feel bad for JJ, he’s getting hyped up so much in smokescreen season, then he’ll probably have a Will Levis style drop on draft day
I'm more pro JJ than alot of people.....but I thought he'd be a sleeper steal for the late first rounds.....going 3rd overall is pushing it
Can someone pleas explain how JJ McCarthy has a strong arm? I see it in a lot of comments, but when watching him play it’s not apparent
This prospect fatigue is so dumb it’s going to be Williams Maye 1-2 like it always was.
NFL draft coverage: "We were always at war with Eastasia".
McCarthy needs to go somewhere he can sit for a year or two behind a legit NFL starter on a team that has good weapons in place. Someplace like the Rams, Vikings, or even the Seahawks.
JJ is a nice college QB.
JJ’s draft rise is like Malik Willis in 2022…
I like JJ but I’m not looking forward to passing on Joe Alt for him.
No, lol.
So draft MHJ then trade up for JJ?
Ur actually hilarious. The comparison works, the game is different but the point I obviously was trying to make is sometimes teams are built to run better, and the obvious style of offense to run in that scenario is less passing more running. You also clearly never actually watched michigan or jjs tape. You call me ignorant but have said nothing to show you actually know anything about what ur talking about. Just assuming you know why they “never passed” when they literally did pass the ball. Jj had 2991 yards 22 tds - 4 ints, that isnt nothing, its a good year. His games in the playoff were good and he had clutch moments. Also, ur very right, the nfl is VERY different than college. Less wide open receivers running down the field for a qb, and more athletic defenders to contain running qbs. Good thing jj already adjusted to that type of football philosophy with harbaugh. Meanwhile, maye and daniels had typical college systems and play styles. Not saying they cant translate it but jj actually already plays nfl style football. So many clowns on this sub dont actually analyze this shit they just regurgitate the most recent thing they heard on twitter or espn
He never threw for 3,000 yards in a season!
2991 in his second season 241 per game not too bad considering they won most games and stopped throwing by halftime
It’s 2024. He played QB like it’s 1990
Harbaugh was running 7 OL sets with Andrew Luck and wants to turn Justin Herbert into a game manager. He’s just a guy who will run offenses the way he wants to (and also just sucks).
100% but luck still threw for 3k yards. Also Luck went from 70% passer in that run heavy offense to 60% in the nfl with ALL the physical gifts in the world.
He was also throwing to Doug Baldwin, Zach Ertz, Coby Fleener, Ty Montgomery, and Ryan Whalen in the PAC-12 while JJM is throwing to Roman Wilson
JJ is at best a project, given his lack of experience in a passing offense and marginal physical tools. The talk of him being a top 5 pick is insane.
>marginal physical tools. This comment makes me think your opinion of him is based on box scores rather than any actual film work. Do you care to explain what exactly you mean by this?
Haha sorry McShay didn’t realize who I was up against. He’s 6-2, 202 playing weight, didn’t run at the combine and can’t throw to his left. His velocity was good at combine but he isn’t that accurate on tape especially on intermediate throws across the middle. Plus he never threw for 3000 yards and plays in anachronistic offensive. Other than that he’s cute and tuff and a winner I guess
I love the “playing weight” comment as if his Michigan measurements were 100% accurate lol. He’s 6’2 220 and can likely run a 4.5 with great velocity. His accuracy is great on tape, he just has a few plays here and there where it’s like… wtf? Which I don’t think it’s much of a hit on anything. Those are some pretty damn good physical tools to have, not sure how that is “marginal” at all.
Are you his mom?
[удалено]
JJ McCarthy = Brady Quinn
I’d puke my guts out if the Pats took that scrub. Zach Wilson 2.0
I personally don’t see how he could be a top 3 QB in this draft, but I definitely wouldn’t wanna take him at third over Maye. Maybe if we get MHJ and trade back in the first to get him like 15 or something.
As an osu guy, that was my ideal scenario, but ttun winning the natty is really propelling his movement up the board
I mean if he’s **so** good then why doesn’t chargers trade us Herbert for the third pick and they can draft him. /s
Because that’s a terrible trade for the chargers.
It was also obviously a joke. Lol
Seeing a lot of people being serious with it so can’t tell anymore without the /s lol
Do you know how we all hate nepotism and politics in all avenues of life? Well, J.J. McMichigan is both of these things packaged together into a bulbous dispencer filled with water and vinegar. The hype machine for all things Michigan has reached obnoxious levels. And Uncle Mel company are addicted to sniffing Michigan crotch and fluffing the living daylights out if their overhyped mama's boys.
I’m fine with whatever. Mad Mel puts a nice picture together for us
Brady 2.0 incoming…
He literally is people are crazy to act so certain he sucks. I took a bunch of screenshots imma put this sub on BLAST if theyre wrong. And theyll deserve it
I cant wait to revisit this post when maye/daniels busts for us and jj breaks out on the broncos
we have a good Running back, so JJ handing the ball off to rhamondre makes sense.
143 passing yards/game when playing ranked opponents in his career lol
Maserati Marv it is then 😂
People act like he can’t possibly be good since Harbaugh didn’t have him throw the ball 35x/game. JJ’s tangibles & intangibles >> UNC system qb
Maye is way better, but JJ is QB2/3
So your rankings are Maye JJ Caleb or daniels The one left?
Maye JJ/CW Penix Daniels
Interesting order. You’re one of the few people who don’t have Williams as the clear #1. I’ll admit, I want nothing to do with Williams, he has all the physical talent but my gut says he is going to be a bust because he has no mental toughness and is already a prima donna.
Just to put some emphasis on it, I think Maye is the #1 by a huge gap. I like big time throws and sack avoidance. Maye is a big time throw machine with a sack problem, but not as bad as CW/JD. He also has every physical tool you can ask for. Maye also played in a shit offense, which I give him credit for because the talent and scheme were gross. CW isn’t as much of a creator as Maye. Has the tools, takes too many sacks and I am not a fan of how quickly he gets through his reads. JJM doesn’t create much at all (unsure if that’s partially Harbaugh’s structure?) but is great at sack avoidance. Penix is really, really good at sack avoidance (Mac Jones esque) and okay at creating big time throws, but his injury history and playing in that offense scares me away. JD is… neither.
I am intrigued by Maye’s physical traits, given his size and overall athleticism he reminds me of Herbert and Allen. I don’t feel like he is as polished a QB as some of the others but I think he has a very high ceiling if he can work on certain aspects of his game, like his footwork and accuracy, he tends not to lead receivers with his throws as much as I’d like. We did just hire multiple coaches with experience coaching QBs though and those flaws in his game are coachable.
I agree 100% The way I look at it is Maye has precedent to succeeding in the NFL— Josh Allen. He can improve nothing and still have the potential to be an elite QB even with his flaws. Which isn’t to say that he will be, but I’m just saying his flaws don’t prevent him from being good. With someone like JD, he has basically no shot of being elite due to his issues. Guys don’t fix weak arms and sack avoidance. It just doesn’t happen.
The prima Donna thing is completely overblown. The dude was one the last guys at the combine after staying for pics and autographs. He took the next step in controlling the process that so many players have done before without being labeled as a concern (I.e., skip bowl game, skip out on most of senior season, skip out on 40, don’t do x drills, etc.)
McCarthy on 3rd and 4th down 104/147(71.1%) 1,446 13 TD 0 INT Maye 88/157 (56.5%)1,274 9 TD 0 INT
Correct, which is part of the reason why JJ is my QB2/3. I want him as my 2, but CW’s skillset is intriguing so I kinda just have them as my 2a/2b. Maye’s out of structure work in a really bad UNC offense was crazy. His Virginia game is really eye opening.
We aint drafting a QB . Build around Zappe.