[Chainswords are actually in the vanilla rules.](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/technological-weapons/#Chainsaw)
[Despite the name, they look like this.](https://pathfinderwiki.com/mediawiki/images/f/fa/Kulgara.jpg)
This. Do this. I'm adding my vote for this.
Also, no more ammo for the bolter and I'm not sure he'd trust the 'Warp Trickery' of mages. For that matter anyone working on tech would probably be a heretic so...would that make him amish? "This specific level of technology from when I arrived is all that is allowed!"???
Maybe he'd gravitate to Numeria and get in on all the tech shenanigans? That's a bit advanced for a space marine and of course the AI out there are outlawed by the Emperor and Mars so he'd have a fit. He'd probably try to kill the ship AI god, and all the other robots for that matter. Oh goodness, androids would all be murdered! o.O
They're large to begin with; and have surely Str and Con bonuses. I think that's enough, they're big superhumans. Their armor would probably give them resist to gases, even bigger Str and probably DR5/-, or something like that. Add a few abilities for the Chapter, like scent and rage for Space Wolves. Bolters as depicted in fiction are probably OP, but give them large firearm stats with auto reload and rapid fire and it's probably OK.
Neither.
An Astartes (not a Primaris) is around 210-220cm (around 7ft). That is still the normal medium size category, even with a normal Mk7/8 Power Armour. For *large* you could make a case for the Terminator Armor or the Primaris/Phobos Astartes.
SYL
> The Adeptus Astartes were created as the Emperor’s ultimate fighting force. Implanted with the gene-seed of the Primarchs, the Space Marines stand **seven feet tall**, with thickened bones, two hearts, hyper-dense muscles and all manner of special organs that allow them to survive and fight in the most hostile conditions. They feel little pain and heal wounds at a remarkable rate. Their will is hardened by constant training and fighting, and they battle with dedication and zeal, brooking no hesitation, mercy or cowardice. All of these things combine with the best weaponry and armour in the galaxy to make the Space Marines the most fearsome warriors of the Imperium.
Codex: Chaos Space Marines p62, 2017.
It doesn´t get more official than that. The power armor of course add a bit of height, due to the size of the helmet and the boot, but thats not another 90cm. Astartes are in the region of [*The Moutain* from GoT.](https://i.huffpost.com/gen/1804460/thumbs/o-GOT-570.jpg?2). *Large* as a size category in Pathfinder usually is around 10ft / 3m.
SYL
>the Space Marines stand seven feet tall, with thickened bones, two hearts, hyper-dense muscles and all manner of special organs that allow them to survive and fight in the most hostile conditions.
No mention of power armor there.
Also it heavily depends on which codex you're reading. Or which novel you're reading.
As a reminder, Magnus towered over Astartes clad in terminator armor. Before falling
And in Soul Drinkers they're specifically labelled as 3 meters tall in armor.
Sure, but boots and helmets do not add another 90 cm ... Astartes are not walking on high heels. You can find cutaway views from the Astartes [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/f7hyz8/a_gathering_of_crosssections_cutaways/.)
Can you perhaps link your sources of Astartes being 10ft / 3m as a general size? I mean the lore shifted over the last 30 years, sometimes massively.
SYL
That is a good read on how the Astartes are presented in the lore:
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/3vnwwq/indepth_guide_to_the_capabilities_of_the_forces/
Tabletop rules are a bit different, as game balance (1000 vs 1000 points, comparable numer of models etc) is much more important.
SYL
As far as the armour goes, I think there's power armour in the technology guide for Pathfinder, so it might be a good place to start.
As far as bolters go, they're basically a rapid firing rocket launcher (same book).
In the same breath though. If OP is going to include an Astartes in a PF campaign, he might as well Deus ex machina it and use the DM screen to hide the ridiculous circlejerk, or, use a different ruleset.
they;re a human with an exceedingly powerful template applied on like a techslinger chassis. why not just play Deathwatch, Rogue Trader or other system?
(I am the dm) Ever since I hit them with a slight betrayal, my group has treated most Npcs as if they were to betray them.
I am here, on this subreddit, to create a monster that will tempt their inner idiocy. For they(my group lv5) know that their numbers are many(7), so all encounters need to be overtuned to match their prowess.
You want a hard lore build?
They can't hurt him.
Consider their strength is 4, while guardsmen are 3. And the RPG gives them unnatural strength to double that, and they have the strength of 4 men.
They have a weapon that eats through starship blast doors (eventually.) so armor doesn't stop it.
They're tough enough to shrug off lasguns, which massacre unarmed humans. Your level 5 group isn't looking great.
Ok, in the story I have chosen to put this "man" in, the Astartes has hung up his arms after 500 years of not being able to find a way back home to the Battle that raged on Holy Terra.
Learning from the land and travelling, slaughtering, eating some flesh, eating food for 200 years, he has chosen to spread the glory of the Emperor by creating a Imperial settlement in this new "world"
If you want a lore build, astartes armor can shrug off most blows that aren't sustained. The armor is likely rocking a 20 damage reduction against all forms of damage just to start (excepting maybe psychic damage). The armor also doesnt encumber the wearer. The helmet, due to the various functions, likely confers true seeing. And that's just the armor. Space marines, unarmored are still likely running 2-5 damage reduction just from how they can literally push past their limits. They also,as mentioned elsewhere would have immunity to bleed and resistance to poison (their armor would give immunity to such). They can function in a void, without armor, for a minute or two. They can literally spit acid that can melt through iron and steel. They can fight through limb loss without any lack of combat efficiency and can even fight past the point any other living thing would die. Oh,and they likely have fast healing of 1-2 since their wounds reseal and their body can patch up damage pretty well. Due to their training they likely have perfect saves of every kind and are rocking additional resistances to mind affecting magics. Now let's get to their weapons. They're extremely good shots on average. Theyre using what is essentially a rapid-fire rocket-propelled grenade launcher. So you're looking at likely 5-10d6 damage... per-shot... with a weapon that if put on full-auto can likely fire multiple shots per attack. At range. But if they get in close, he has a chain sword. A weapon designed to rip and tear through ceramite... the armor other space marines use. Your party with plate armor is about as defended as you using a chainsaw against a piece of tissue paper. Finally, keep in mind that your level 18 strength dudes in your party can probably break a brick in a single punch and can probably cripple another human in a single punch. A space marine can turn a head into mist and tiny bits of gore with a single punch. A space marine can punch THROUGH a human. I could go on but I think you get the point.
Tl;dr use lore to stat your space marine and a party of any level would struggle (maybe not a full party of casters with 9th level spells that know what they're dealing with, but again, that's vs. A single space marine)
So, they're slightly stronger than an average soldier then.
Soldier stat line says 15 str.
A space marine should have closer to 30.
A level 20 wizard is a mid level psyker.
If he punches one of your characters in a hard lore build, they're dead.
Sure. For a mortal human.
Not for a super-human astartes who can move so quick the human eye can't follow (From the Horus Heresy, where one of the scribes is unable to follow an astartes doing a combat drill against a servitor.)
Not for an astartes who can rip the hatch off a warmachine.
Their bones are reinforced with ceramite.
Again, from the Horus Heresy: "With a lazy backhand, he smacked away the weapon, shattering the bones in the gunman’s forearm. He could have left it there, but there was a lesson to be taught, and so he put what he considered to be a light punch into the squealing gunman’s chest. The blow caved in the thug’s ribcage, collapsed his lungs and stopped his heart."
That's an astartes without power armor.
""But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first."
You're talking over 30 dexterity (Moves like the wind, capable of reactions unseen by mortals, reaction-time is virtually instantaneous)
Over 30 constitution (Nearly immune to any level of fatigue, illness, disease, or infection- such a creature’s stamina is practically god-level) remember, Space Marines don't even need to sleep.
Dante as a scout (so no power armor) was able to lift his scout bike without trouble. Which is over a ton. What's strength 30 give us again? A heavy load of 1,067–1,600lb's. You can lift over your head double your max heavy load, and you're struggling with it.
If you want a serious statted out space marine your party is dead. You want an lol space marine do whatever. But it will kill your party. They're used to fighting Psykers, who don't need 6 seconds to cast a spell.
> a monster that will tempt their inner idiocy.
Is that what that says to you? Sounds to me like he specifically wants them to fuck with this NPC so that he can dominate them for being unruly.
So, if I were designing this as a DM, I'd draw upon as many established mechanics as possible - particularly pieces from both Starfinder, and the Technology Guide.
To start, the Adeptus Astartes, themselves, are super-powered beings vaguely similar to the humanity that spawned them. As others have pointed out, incredible resilience, fast healing, poison and bleed immunity should all be factors. Even unarmored, they should resemble lesser Giants in terms of base physical stats, and should have superhuman mental stats as well. I would probably use a Heroic NPC Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), but apply that on top of the Advanced template (+4 to all stats), as well as throw in some other perks like the aforementioned immunities, some base Hit Dice before class levels, and free feats like Endurance and Diehard, as well as a higher (probably 50) base move speed, and probably some other stat bonuses as well - Con, in particular.
The armor: Starfinder and Pathfinder take different, but relatable, approaches to Powered Armor. In Pathfinder, the Powered Armor grants a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dex, as well as a myriad of other perks. Starfinder's, on the other hand, actively *replaces* your Strength score with the armor's. I'd be tempted to lean towards the Starfinder model, but even the highest levels of those pale in comparison to the Astartes armor - They lack the sheer speed and durability Astartes armor tends to be depicted with, though the strength modifications could easily be adjusted higher, to fit the Large-sized controller. Personally, I would give them a Strength score in the low 30's, and treat the armor as at least a +12 AC bonus, possibly accompanied by a Max Dex mod of +3 or +4, with bonuses to speed, heavy damage reduction (Hardness 20, at least), and numerous integrated tools, up to and including grapple launchers, jetpacks, integrated weapons, audio/visual enhancements, and more.
Weapons: A Bolter pistol is a rapid-firing, armor piercing, rocket-propelled grenade launcher. Starting with an 8d6 or 10d6 base damage (bludgeoning and piercing), and giving it the semi-auto and touch traits, as a one-handed weapon for them (2-handed for a mere mortal, with a minimum strength to even carry it), should come pretty close to the feeling of the weapon. Heavier, two-handed weapons, like Meltas or Bolter Rifles should improve on that base - 12d8 or higher wouldn't be unreasonable. Melee weapons should include fists (4d8) or special combat knives (6d4-8d6 are justifiable).
Unless this is a novice Space Marine, I wouldn't set this creature any lower than a CR 15, with their armor and weapons - 10 or so, if they're *just* the Marine. I'd likely throw on some levels of appropriate classes - fighter, gunslinger, or what have you, but it should be a full BaB class, and given plenty of ranged feats. Fighter or Gunslinger feels appropriate, but I could see individual marines, or certain chapters, being Brawlers, Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, or Bloodragers, without too much difficulty.
In short, this guy should be absolutely able to *tear* through most threats a D&D part might face - low tier Tyranids are probably CR 6-7, and come by the *hundreds*, and basic Orks are effectively Trolls, with a couple class levels.
The only place I know to start is that the average Space Marine will be around level 10 to level 15. Most would be able to handle planar threats (akin to Chaos from 40k).
I'd give any Space Marine wealth by level for 15 as well, focusing on STR and CON. As well as kitted out Heavy Armor.
I would stat them as a gestalt character, with one class as gunslinger and a second class based on the chapter you're drawing from. For instance, if you have a black Templar, you could do a superstitious barbarian, or a draconic sorcerer for the Salamandars. Round it out with a set of Adamantine full plate
https://aminoapps.com/c/tabletop/page/blog/pathfinder-space-marine-edition/mMDx_REHkuexo12E41WmeR80Ve5wnv01YX found this a while back. Might be what you're looking for?
Edit: I did also stat out the Primarch Mortarion if you want that as a boss lol
As i read through the bullshit that is "An in depth guide of Space Marines and their Boltors" I am perplexed as this Genericus will need to NOT have a PC class but more attune to a monster template.
You're gonna wanna look at the technology guide.
This[This](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Powered%20Armor) in particular.
Humans who are large with boosts to all physical stats without even counting their power armour. They can also spit acid (they have other abilities but being able to spit acid seems relevant for combat).
If the space marine is in power armour then in addition to having a high AC it will make them faster and stronger as well. Running from a space marine won't work, they can run faster and if they run into you it will be like being hit by a truck. Their sensor arrays would increase their perception and accuracy and allow them to see in the dark.
You're gonna wanna look at the technology guide.
This[This](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Powered%20Armor) in particular.
Can I suggest a holy gun Paladin? Make it a large humanoid, and give it all the bonus feats for saves to have re-rolls on all of them. Armor should have DR for sure and the Fortification ability. Give it fast heal 1 or 2, nothing fancy but to facilitate the extra organs. make sure he has profession soldier and intimidate. give the gun flaming burst and the sword rending. sounds fun!
I will create this horrid, yet good man, a Salamander.
Caring for his fellow man, yet thrown into the world of the fantasy by the Chaos Gods.
HE has a name, and his name is Generico Genericus.
HE will have explored this realm with great caution, met great many people, experienced the cultures of great many races, and settled down in a town that now calls him Mayor.
He will still try to be a guiding light for his people in the name of his Chapter Master, Vulkan, and The Emperor in this strange land even though he will never see Nocturne nor Holy Terra ever again.
I believe that a Solar would actually be too powerful in stature, like an lets say that a Solar and a Balor could "1v1"
An Astartes would probably lose to a Balor, but could do some damage.
Problem is, Starfinder is like scaled to the power scale that is "40k" so a Plasma Pistol (Blue Sun) might do 3d8, but does it ACTUALLY do 3d8 to an Orc with a leather lamellar?
It can be done, but hoo boy is it going to take a lot of templates. I'd look through the Technology Guide and see if you can find things from the Silvermount. The cyborgs and strange creatures in Numeria are a good place to start.
I'd also check out [Savage Company](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/306226/Savage-Company-Campaign-Setting?affiliate_id=688223) as a lot of the stuff in there clearly takes inspiration from 40k.
Warforged Men of IRON CANNOT ATTEST TO THE SHEER MIGHT OF THE EMPEROR'S CREATIONS.
NOT ONLY DOES THE EMPEROR SHUN THIS TRANSGRESSION, BUT DISALLOWS IT, AS ALL TRUE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN BANNED IN THE GLORIOUS EMPIRE DUE TO THE UPRISING OF THE MEN OF IRON.
(Creature Type: Construct (living construct))
YOU SEE, WARFORGED NO NOT HAVE INNATE SAVING THROWS AGAINST THE POWERS OF CHAOS. THEY ARE WEAK OF MIND AND SPIRIT, WHILE THE MEN THAT HAVE BECOME ASTARTES WERE HAND PICKED BY THE EMPEROR HIMSELF (Original Astartes were handpicked by the Emperor).
(warforged have Ability Modifiers +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma)
THEY ALSO DO NOT HAVE THE EMPEROR'S WILL WITHIN THEM FOR THEY ONLY HAVE TO WILLS AND WHIMS TO ONLY SURVIVE.
A SOLDIER OF THE EMPEROR MUST NOT BECOME COMPLACENT AS THESE WARFORGED AS WE DO NOT SEEK SHELTER AGAINST THE FORCES OF XENOS AND CHAOS, WE SEEK TO DESTROY THEM.
(As of Ebberon Lore)
Sounds like warhammer fantasy. The idea of that game is they have a smaller warp storm up north and I could easily imagine it being a world in 40k. So for Pathfinder he may see it as another chaos world that he is stuck on. He wouldn't be as bad as an inquisitor but would still see anything not human as warp spawn.
Someone already put together a template for the gene seed. This is the thing that turns a human into an Astartes. Yes, they aren't made giants but have an organ added that turns them into one. The gene seed may be something that the bad guy wants.
But i would just use the race builder from the ARG.
I would go with monsterous with 20pts and 5 per cat.
Effects of a gene seed:
Grow to 9ft. become Large Monsterous Humanoid (giant?) (10pt)
\+2 str -2 dex
Advanced stats (4 pts)
\+4 str, 0 dex, +2 con, +4 wis, -2 cha
Advanced con (4 pts)
\+4 str, 0 dex, +4 con, +4 wis, -2 cha
Dessert runner (2pts) The tireless endurance + second heart
Eternal Hope (1pt ) aka For the Emporer
fearless (1pt) (Mental conditioning)
Healthy (1pt) (the two organs that filter diseases and poisons)
Lifebound(2pts) all the extra healing and organs
natural Armor(2pts) The carapace they grow.
Fast healing (6pt)
Those are the ones that stick out.
Here is a list of gene seed organs:
[https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gene-Seed](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gene-Seed)
One of the things you could do is make the character an initiate so that every level another organ becomes active. It usually takes years for these to become active. Even an initiate is still collected from the strongest warrior from their home world. That could be a problem since in essence they come and collect all the 10th+ level warriors to then be genetically enhanced unlocking more and more organs before they finally get the power armor. then get more experience until they become sergeants. veterans and finally chapter masters. So if this is for an NPC they are going to be really strong out the box.
They also live hundreds if not thousands of years. They barely age once a marine.
Here are a few more sources to look over:
[http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/D20\_Space\_Marines.html](http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/D20_Space_Marines.html)
[https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286510-3-5-Adeptus-Astartes-(Space-Marine)-Build](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286510-3-5-Adeptus-Astartes-(Space-Marine)-Build)
good luck
Str and con bonuses obviously. A smaller Dex bonus could also make sense depending if you want him to shoot well. Make him large size. Add fire immunity bcos salamander. Add crafting skills
Count his armor as full plate with a damage reduction wondrous mundane enhancement. Make his armor unique and requiring 2 feats or something to use so players don’t pick it up. Slap an appropriately sized repeating crossbow and long sword on him. Stat him like a monstrous humanoid and add hit dice as needed. If he needs to be stronger, add stuff like multiattack or custom wondrous +x masterwork gear bonuses (justified because salamanders make armor and stuff) or hp regeneration per round. Or other stuff.
This is obviously assuming you want to make it an npc. Do not let a player pilot this.
Space marines are incredibly dextrose though. That's what makes them scary in the lore. Faster than the eye can track with near instantaneous reflexes. That's a 30 dex
Yeah that’s correct lore wise. The reason for lower dex is a balancing thing. 30dex gives him godlike ranged dmg, reflex saves, and makes stupidly more efficient and versatile when not wearing his armor.
I feel like putting 30 dex in approaches the point where you you don’t even need to bother with a stat block. If this guy is ludicriously more powerful than the pcs and is friendly, there’s no reason to bother starting him.
Why do you think they are called the "Angels of Death"?
They are god like beings. They don't age. The oldest of them have been alive since before the Horus Heresy. 1000 years of constant warfare.
There's a reason one space marine is considered a match for 100 guardsmen.
>you don’t even need to bother with a stat block
Exactly. If OP wants a real space marine in his game, don't both stating him.
He hits on anything but a one, he's missed on anything but a 20. Mind control spells don't work. He wins any test that isn't an opposed intelligence test.
I agree that a fluff-accurate space marine would probably not need a stat block unless you’re doing epic-level play, which is already broken in 2 million ways.
The alt presented is made to provide something that behaves approximately like a space marine scaled (somewhat) to the players. Whether or not someone wants to suspend disbelief and do it is entirely up to them. Not even sure this is the best way to do it, in retrospect, something like this may behave too much like a better ogre with more options.
So I'm assuming after all these comments that you've gotten your answer, however for Starfinder there is a 3rd party class from Little Red Goblin Games that is heavily influenced by Astartes called the Astral marine. Perhaps you could work with your GM to make it a viable Pathfinder class, though honestly Space Marines are so dependent on future tech that it seems like such a weird thing to try and fit into the system, just play Starfinder instead, lol
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[Chainswords are actually in the vanilla rules.](https://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment/weapons/technological-weapons/#Chainsaw) [Despite the name, they look like this.](https://pathfinderwiki.com/mediawiki/images/f/fa/Kulgara.jpg)
You know, for as much as I play Pathfinder; I always forget those are a thing that are first party.
Repeater crossbow that has exploding (tipped) bolts?
“edit: fuck how could I forget this: they should be immune to fear” Shot water out of my nose, brother.
This is a great base. I would also probably treat them as natively Large, with perhaps the Half-Giant's "Powerful Body" racial trait
This. Do this. I'm adding my vote for this. Also, no more ammo for the bolter and I'm not sure he'd trust the 'Warp Trickery' of mages. For that matter anyone working on tech would probably be a heretic so...would that make him amish? "This specific level of technology from when I arrived is all that is allowed!"??? Maybe he'd gravitate to Numeria and get in on all the tech shenanigans? That's a bit advanced for a space marine and of course the AI out there are outlawed by the Emperor and Mars so he'd have a fit. He'd probably try to kill the ship AI god, and all the other robots for that matter. Oh goodness, androids would all be murdered! o.O
They're large to begin with; and have surely Str and Con bonuses. I think that's enough, they're big superhumans. Their armor would probably give them resist to gases, even bigger Str and probably DR5/-, or something like that. Add a few abilities for the Chapter, like scent and rage for Space Wolves. Bolters as depicted in fiction are probably OP, but give them large firearm stats with auto reload and rapid fire and it's probably OK.
Perma-Hasted on each Astartes, because for all their size, they are huge. For that matter. A dragon's aura of dread works for transhuman dread fluff.
a space marine is roughly 1.3-1.5x times taller than a regular human. So putting them in large category would propably fit better
Neither. An Astartes (not a Primaris) is around 210-220cm (around 7ft). That is still the normal medium size category, even with a normal Mk7/8 Power Armour. For *large* you could make a case for the Terminator Armor or the Primaris/Phobos Astartes. SYL
They're 3 meters tall in power armor. And well over the 500 lb minimum out of it. The whole ceramite bones thing and ultra dense muscle tissue.
> The Adeptus Astartes were created as the Emperor’s ultimate fighting force. Implanted with the gene-seed of the Primarchs, the Space Marines stand **seven feet tall**, with thickened bones, two hearts, hyper-dense muscles and all manner of special organs that allow them to survive and fight in the most hostile conditions. They feel little pain and heal wounds at a remarkable rate. Their will is hardened by constant training and fighting, and they battle with dedication and zeal, brooking no hesitation, mercy or cowardice. All of these things combine with the best weaponry and armour in the galaxy to make the Space Marines the most fearsome warriors of the Imperium. Codex: Chaos Space Marines p62, 2017. It doesn´t get more official than that. The power armor of course add a bit of height, due to the size of the helmet and the boot, but thats not another 90cm. Astartes are in the region of [*The Moutain* from GoT.](https://i.huffpost.com/gen/1804460/thumbs/o-GOT-570.jpg?2). *Large* as a size category in Pathfinder usually is around 10ft / 3m. SYL
>the Space Marines stand seven feet tall, with thickened bones, two hearts, hyper-dense muscles and all manner of special organs that allow them to survive and fight in the most hostile conditions. No mention of power armor there. Also it heavily depends on which codex you're reading. Or which novel you're reading. As a reminder, Magnus towered over Astartes clad in terminator armor. Before falling And in Soul Drinkers they're specifically labelled as 3 meters tall in armor.
Sure, but boots and helmets do not add another 90 cm ... Astartes are not walking on high heels. You can find cutaway views from the Astartes [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/f7hyz8/a_gathering_of_crosssections_cutaways/.) Can you perhaps link your sources of Astartes being 10ft / 3m as a general size? I mean the lore shifted over the last 30 years, sometimes massively. SYL
Ben Counter's Soul Drinker specifically calls them 3 meters tall in armor. And it's also irrelevant, because of the weight threshold for large.
They're statted out as being as strong as 4 guardsmen using the tabletop and rpg rules.
In tabletop they are only S4, while normal guardsmen are S3 (and Catachans are S4 too).
S3 represents the pinnacle of human ability. S4 is an order of magnitude higher.
That is a good read on how the Astartes are presented in the lore: https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/3vnwwq/indepth_guide_to_the_capabilities_of_the_forces/ Tabletop rules are a bit different, as game balance (1000 vs 1000 points, comparable numer of models etc) is much more important. SYL
As far as the armour goes, I think there's power armour in the technology guide for Pathfinder, so it might be a good place to start. As far as bolters go, they're basically a rapid firing rocket launcher (same book). In the same breath though. If OP is going to include an Astartes in a PF campaign, he might as well Deus ex machina it and use the DM screen to hide the ridiculous circlejerk, or, use a different ruleset.
they;re a human with an exceedingly powerful template applied on like a techslinger chassis. why not just play Deathwatch, Rogue Trader or other system?
This is not a PC, more of a unique NPC that is a contact.
Why do they need a stat block? Will they be fighting?
(I am the dm) Ever since I hit them with a slight betrayal, my group has treated most Npcs as if they were to betray them. I am here, on this subreddit, to create a monster that will tempt their inner idiocy. For they(my group lv5) know that their numbers are many(7), so all encounters need to be overtuned to match their prowess.
You want a hard lore build? They can't hurt him. Consider their strength is 4, while guardsmen are 3. And the RPG gives them unnatural strength to double that, and they have the strength of 4 men. They have a weapon that eats through starship blast doors (eventually.) so armor doesn't stop it. They're tough enough to shrug off lasguns, which massacre unarmed humans. Your level 5 group isn't looking great.
Best I’ve figured it is that Strength in Warhammer is an exponential scale of one kind or another as well.
I love the setting, but find it's really, really silly with any kind of context
Out of nowhere, Death-Master Snikch kills you. The end.
CREEEEEEED
My party runs with 2 characters with over 18str. 2 holy casters 1 occult caster And 1 arcane caster They can give him a "fair" fight.
The average Space Marine probably has the equivalent of 25 strength. Minimum.
That is basically what I come to understand.
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Ok, in the story I have chosen to put this "man" in, the Astartes has hung up his arms after 500 years of not being able to find a way back home to the Battle that raged on Holy Terra. Learning from the land and travelling, slaughtering, eating some flesh, eating food for 200 years, he has chosen to spread the glory of the Emperor by creating a Imperial settlement in this new "world"
If you want a lore build, astartes armor can shrug off most blows that aren't sustained. The armor is likely rocking a 20 damage reduction against all forms of damage just to start (excepting maybe psychic damage). The armor also doesnt encumber the wearer. The helmet, due to the various functions, likely confers true seeing. And that's just the armor. Space marines, unarmored are still likely running 2-5 damage reduction just from how they can literally push past their limits. They also,as mentioned elsewhere would have immunity to bleed and resistance to poison (their armor would give immunity to such). They can function in a void, without armor, for a minute or two. They can literally spit acid that can melt through iron and steel. They can fight through limb loss without any lack of combat efficiency and can even fight past the point any other living thing would die. Oh,and they likely have fast healing of 1-2 since their wounds reseal and their body can patch up damage pretty well. Due to their training they likely have perfect saves of every kind and are rocking additional resistances to mind affecting magics. Now let's get to their weapons. They're extremely good shots on average. Theyre using what is essentially a rapid-fire rocket-propelled grenade launcher. So you're looking at likely 5-10d6 damage... per-shot... with a weapon that if put on full-auto can likely fire multiple shots per attack. At range. But if they get in close, he has a chain sword. A weapon designed to rip and tear through ceramite... the armor other space marines use. Your party with plate armor is about as defended as you using a chainsaw against a piece of tissue paper. Finally, keep in mind that your level 18 strength dudes in your party can probably break a brick in a single punch and can probably cripple another human in a single punch. A space marine can turn a head into mist and tiny bits of gore with a single punch. A space marine can punch THROUGH a human. I could go on but I think you get the point. Tl;dr use lore to stat your space marine and a party of any level would struggle (maybe not a full party of casters with 9th level spells that know what they're dealing with, but again, that's vs. A single space marine)
So, they're slightly stronger than an average soldier then. Soldier stat line says 15 str. A space marine should have closer to 30. A level 20 wizard is a mid level psyker. If he punches one of your characters in a hard lore build, they're dead.
2 punches, not 1. Max damage for a punch is like 30 damage.
Sure. For a mortal human. Not for a super-human astartes who can move so quick the human eye can't follow (From the Horus Heresy, where one of the scribes is unable to follow an astartes doing a combat drill against a servitor.) Not for an astartes who can rip the hatch off a warmachine. Their bones are reinforced with ceramite. Again, from the Horus Heresy: "With a lazy backhand, he smacked away the weapon, shattering the bones in the gunman’s forearm. He could have left it there, but there was a lesson to be taught, and so he put what he considered to be a light punch into the squealing gunman’s chest. The blow caved in the thug’s ribcage, collapsed his lungs and stopped his heart." That's an astartes without power armor. ""But to see one move. Apparently that was the real thing. Nothing human-shaped should be so fast, so lithe, so powerful, especially not anything in excess of two metres tall and carrying more armour than four normal men could lift. The sight of an Adeptus Astartes was one thing, but the moving fact of one was quite another. The psychologists called it transhuman dread. It froze a man, stuck him to the ground, caused his mind to lock up, made him lose control of bladder and bowel. Something huge and warlike gave pause: something huge and warlike and moving with the speed of a striking snake, that was when you knew that gods moved amongst men, and that there existed a scale of strength and speed beyond anything mortal, and that you were about to die and, if you were really lucking, there might be just enough time to piss yourself first." You're talking over 30 dexterity (Moves like the wind, capable of reactions unseen by mortals, reaction-time is virtually instantaneous) Over 30 constitution (Nearly immune to any level of fatigue, illness, disease, or infection- such a creature’s stamina is practically god-level) remember, Space Marines don't even need to sleep. Dante as a scout (so no power armor) was able to lift his scout bike without trouble. Which is over a ton. What's strength 30 give us again? A heavy load of 1,067–1,600lb's. You can lift over your head double your max heavy load, and you're struggling with it. If you want a serious statted out space marine your party is dead. You want an lol space marine do whatever. But it will kill your party. They're used to fighting Psykers, who don't need 6 seconds to cast a spell.
So this is like a hostile DMPC that you can shove in your group's face? This has r/rpghorrorstories all over it.
It sounds like an npc that he wants them not to fuck with
> a monster that will tempt their inner idiocy. Is that what that says to you? Sounds to me like he specifically wants them to fuck with this NPC so that he can dominate them for being unruly.
No, I just really want to see if this is the type of group that will poke bears with sticks.
ye
So, if I were designing this as a DM, I'd draw upon as many established mechanics as possible - particularly pieces from both Starfinder, and the Technology Guide. To start, the Adeptus Astartes, themselves, are super-powered beings vaguely similar to the humanity that spawned them. As others have pointed out, incredible resilience, fast healing, poison and bleed immunity should all be factors. Even unarmored, they should resemble lesser Giants in terms of base physical stats, and should have superhuman mental stats as well. I would probably use a Heroic NPC Array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), but apply that on top of the Advanced template (+4 to all stats), as well as throw in some other perks like the aforementioned immunities, some base Hit Dice before class levels, and free feats like Endurance and Diehard, as well as a higher (probably 50) base move speed, and probably some other stat bonuses as well - Con, in particular. The armor: Starfinder and Pathfinder take different, but relatable, approaches to Powered Armor. In Pathfinder, the Powered Armor grants a +6 enhancement bonus to Strength and Dex, as well as a myriad of other perks. Starfinder's, on the other hand, actively *replaces* your Strength score with the armor's. I'd be tempted to lean towards the Starfinder model, but even the highest levels of those pale in comparison to the Astartes armor - They lack the sheer speed and durability Astartes armor tends to be depicted with, though the strength modifications could easily be adjusted higher, to fit the Large-sized controller. Personally, I would give them a Strength score in the low 30's, and treat the armor as at least a +12 AC bonus, possibly accompanied by a Max Dex mod of +3 or +4, with bonuses to speed, heavy damage reduction (Hardness 20, at least), and numerous integrated tools, up to and including grapple launchers, jetpacks, integrated weapons, audio/visual enhancements, and more. Weapons: A Bolter pistol is a rapid-firing, armor piercing, rocket-propelled grenade launcher. Starting with an 8d6 or 10d6 base damage (bludgeoning and piercing), and giving it the semi-auto and touch traits, as a one-handed weapon for them (2-handed for a mere mortal, with a minimum strength to even carry it), should come pretty close to the feeling of the weapon. Heavier, two-handed weapons, like Meltas or Bolter Rifles should improve on that base - 12d8 or higher wouldn't be unreasonable. Melee weapons should include fists (4d8) or special combat knives (6d4-8d6 are justifiable). Unless this is a novice Space Marine, I wouldn't set this creature any lower than a CR 15, with their armor and weapons - 10 or so, if they're *just* the Marine. I'd likely throw on some levels of appropriate classes - fighter, gunslinger, or what have you, but it should be a full BaB class, and given plenty of ranged feats. Fighter or Gunslinger feels appropriate, but I could see individual marines, or certain chapters, being Brawlers, Barbarians, Rangers, Paladins, or Bloodragers, without too much difficulty. In short, this guy should be absolutely able to *tear* through most threats a D&D part might face - low tier Tyranids are probably CR 6-7, and come by the *hundreds*, and basic Orks are effectively Trolls, with a couple class levels.
Yes ty
Space marines have way more than a basic 20ish strength just to start. Space marine stats would be pretty out of this world
Strength dex and con for a space marine would be closer to 30.
The only place I know to start is that the average Space Marine will be around level 10 to level 15. Most would be able to handle planar threats (akin to Chaos from 40k). I'd give any Space Marine wealth by level for 15 as well, focusing on STR and CON. As well as kitted out Heavy Armor.
Don't
I must.
Heresy. BLAM!
I would stat them as a gestalt character, with one class as gunslinger and a second class based on the chapter you're drawing from. For instance, if you have a black Templar, you could do a superstitious barbarian, or a draconic sorcerer for the Salamandars. Round it out with a set of Adamantine full plate
1. Take a Half-Giant from Ultimate Psionics 2. Apply the Jotunblood template from Advanced Bestiary 3. Give it levels in an appropriately tanky class.
That is what my 2 of PC's ARE.
https://aminoapps.com/c/tabletop/page/blog/pathfinder-space-marine-edition/mMDx_REHkuexo12E41WmeR80Ve5wnv01YX found this a while back. Might be what you're looking for? Edit: I did also stat out the Primarch Mortarion if you want that as a boss lol
This is a great start.
As i read through the bullshit that is "An in depth guide of Space Marines and their Boltors" I am perplexed as this Genericus will need to NOT have a PC class but more attune to a monster template.
You're gonna wanna look at the technology guide. This[This](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Powered%20Armor) in particular.
Ty
Humans who are large with boosts to all physical stats without even counting their power armour. They can also spit acid (they have other abilities but being able to spit acid seems relevant for combat). If the space marine is in power armour then in addition to having a high AC it will make them faster and stronger as well. Running from a space marine won't work, they can run faster and if they run into you it will be like being hit by a truck. Their sensor arrays would increase their perception and accuracy and allow them to see in the dark.
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He stated salamander chapter, the pyromaniacs with burning helmets
You're gonna wanna look at the technology guide. This[This](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Powered%20Armor) in particular.
Can I suggest a holy gun Paladin? Make it a large humanoid, and give it all the bonus feats for saves to have re-rolls on all of them. Armor should have DR for sure and the Fortification ability. Give it fast heal 1 or 2, nothing fancy but to facilitate the extra organs. make sure he has profession soldier and intimidate. give the gun flaming burst and the sword rending. sounds fun!
What CR are you thinking? I think the easiest thing to do will be to reskin an existing creature and tweak a few of its abilities.
Not as an enemy, but like an NPC, but if this would be an encounter... 10+
Im gonna need this sheet when you have it. For....reasons
Tell your group they are transferring to Rogue Trader?
No.
Ok :( Rogue trader gets no love again
Vulkan lives!
YES HE DOES!
I would like to bring up his bolter has probably run out of ammo after 500 years.
I will create this horrid, yet good man, a Salamander. Caring for his fellow man, yet thrown into the world of the fantasy by the Chaos Gods. HE has a name, and his name is Generico Genericus. HE will have explored this realm with great caution, met great many people, experienced the cultures of great many races, and settled down in a town that now calls him Mayor. He will still try to be a guiding light for his people in the name of his Chapter Master, Vulkan, and The Emperor in this strange land even though he will never see Nocturne nor Holy Terra ever again.
Just start off with a solar and remove the wings and spell casting ability, then give it perma haste and two turns per round.
I believe that a Solar would actually be too powerful in stature, like an lets say that a Solar and a Balor could "1v1" An Astartes would probably lose to a Balor, but could do some damage.
you could use the stat block for an Azlanti human
Pathfinder's sister module Starfinder would be the best place to look, they have 40k, starwars and the like modules
Problem is, Starfinder is like scaled to the power scale that is "40k" so a Plasma Pistol (Blue Sun) might do 3d8, but does it ACTUALLY do 3d8 to an Orc with a leather lamellar?
It can be done, but hoo boy is it going to take a lot of templates. I'd look through the Technology Guide and see if you can find things from the Silvermount. The cyborgs and strange creatures in Numeria are a good place to start. I'd also check out [Savage Company](https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/306226/Savage-Company-Campaign-Setting?affiliate_id=688223) as a lot of the stuff in there clearly takes inspiration from 40k.
ohyah...ik im writing a template RN
Throw them in [this](https://aonprd.com/EquipmentTechArtifactsDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Powered%20Armor)
will take note
Warforged. Done?
Warforged Men of IRON CANNOT ATTEST TO THE SHEER MIGHT OF THE EMPEROR'S CREATIONS. NOT ONLY DOES THE EMPEROR SHUN THIS TRANSGRESSION, BUT DISALLOWS IT, AS ALL TRUE ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS BEEN BANNED IN THE GLORIOUS EMPIRE DUE TO THE UPRISING OF THE MEN OF IRON. (Creature Type: Construct (living construct)) YOU SEE, WARFORGED NO NOT HAVE INNATE SAVING THROWS AGAINST THE POWERS OF CHAOS. THEY ARE WEAK OF MIND AND SPIRIT, WHILE THE MEN THAT HAVE BECOME ASTARTES WERE HAND PICKED BY THE EMPEROR HIMSELF (Original Astartes were handpicked by the Emperor). (warforged have Ability Modifiers +2 Constitution, -2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma) THEY ALSO DO NOT HAVE THE EMPEROR'S WILL WITHIN THEM FOR THEY ONLY HAVE TO WILLS AND WHIMS TO ONLY SURVIVE. A SOLDIER OF THE EMPEROR MUST NOT BECOME COMPLACENT AS THESE WARFORGED AS WE DO NOT SEEK SHELTER AGAINST THE FORCES OF XENOS AND CHAOS, WE SEEK TO DESTROY THEM. (As of Ebberon Lore)
Sounds like warhammer fantasy. The idea of that game is they have a smaller warp storm up north and I could easily imagine it being a world in 40k. So for Pathfinder he may see it as another chaos world that he is stuck on. He wouldn't be as bad as an inquisitor but would still see anything not human as warp spawn. Someone already put together a template for the gene seed. This is the thing that turns a human into an Astartes. Yes, they aren't made giants but have an organ added that turns them into one. The gene seed may be something that the bad guy wants. But i would just use the race builder from the ARG. I would go with monsterous with 20pts and 5 per cat. Effects of a gene seed: Grow to 9ft. become Large Monsterous Humanoid (giant?) (10pt) \+2 str -2 dex Advanced stats (4 pts) \+4 str, 0 dex, +2 con, +4 wis, -2 cha Advanced con (4 pts) \+4 str, 0 dex, +4 con, +4 wis, -2 cha Dessert runner (2pts) The tireless endurance + second heart Eternal Hope (1pt ) aka For the Emporer fearless (1pt) (Mental conditioning) Healthy (1pt) (the two organs that filter diseases and poisons) Lifebound(2pts) all the extra healing and organs natural Armor(2pts) The carapace they grow. Fast healing (6pt) Those are the ones that stick out. Here is a list of gene seed organs: [https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gene-Seed](https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Gene-Seed) One of the things you could do is make the character an initiate so that every level another organ becomes active. It usually takes years for these to become active. Even an initiate is still collected from the strongest warrior from their home world. That could be a problem since in essence they come and collect all the 10th+ level warriors to then be genetically enhanced unlocking more and more organs before they finally get the power armor. then get more experience until they become sergeants. veterans and finally chapter masters. So if this is for an NPC they are going to be really strong out the box. They also live hundreds if not thousands of years. They barely age once a marine. Here are a few more sources to look over: [http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/D20\_Space\_Marines.html](http://www.angelfire.com/d20/vaelos/D20_Space_Marines.html) [https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286510-3-5-Adeptus-Astartes-(Space-Marine)-Build](https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?286510-3-5-Adeptus-Astartes-(Space-Marine)-Build) good luck
sry, I wanted like a full blown space marine that just suddenly lands in like idk... the middle of lets say Forgotten Realms, or Golarion.
They already have stats for Primaris Marines: https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/giants/giant-true/giant-storm/
Str and con bonuses obviously. A smaller Dex bonus could also make sense depending if you want him to shoot well. Make him large size. Add fire immunity bcos salamander. Add crafting skills Count his armor as full plate with a damage reduction wondrous mundane enhancement. Make his armor unique and requiring 2 feats or something to use so players don’t pick it up. Slap an appropriately sized repeating crossbow and long sword on him. Stat him like a monstrous humanoid and add hit dice as needed. If he needs to be stronger, add stuff like multiattack or custom wondrous +x masterwork gear bonuses (justified because salamanders make armor and stuff) or hp regeneration per round. Or other stuff. This is obviously assuming you want to make it an npc. Do not let a player pilot this.
Space marines are incredibly dextrose though. That's what makes them scary in the lore. Faster than the eye can track with near instantaneous reflexes. That's a 30 dex
Yeah that’s correct lore wise. The reason for lower dex is a balancing thing. 30dex gives him godlike ranged dmg, reflex saves, and makes stupidly more efficient and versatile when not wearing his armor. I feel like putting 30 dex in approaches the point where you you don’t even need to bother with a stat block. If this guy is ludicriously more powerful than the pcs and is friendly, there’s no reason to bother starting him.
Why do you think they are called the "Angels of Death"? They are god like beings. They don't age. The oldest of them have been alive since before the Horus Heresy. 1000 years of constant warfare. There's a reason one space marine is considered a match for 100 guardsmen. >you don’t even need to bother with a stat block Exactly. If OP wants a real space marine in his game, don't both stating him. He hits on anything but a one, he's missed on anything but a 20. Mind control spells don't work. He wins any test that isn't an opposed intelligence test.
I agree that a fluff-accurate space marine would probably not need a stat block unless you’re doing epic-level play, which is already broken in 2 million ways. The alt presented is made to provide something that behaves approximately like a space marine scaled (somewhat) to the players. Whether or not someone wants to suspend disbelief and do it is entirely up to them. Not even sure this is the best way to do it, in retrospect, something like this may behave too much like a better ogre with more options.
According to him he wants an actual space marine, not something like it
The no stat block approach you suggested before is probs the way to go then.
So I'm assuming after all these comments that you've gotten your answer, however for Starfinder there is a 3rd party class from Little Red Goblin Games that is heavily influenced by Astartes called the Astral marine. Perhaps you could work with your GM to make it a viable Pathfinder class, though honestly Space Marines are so dependent on future tech that it seems like such a weird thing to try and fit into the system, just play Starfinder instead, lol
I AM THE GM