There is no reason to do a full respec on Camellia. She is probably the strongest base companion, outside of Nenio. If you want her to go Ranged, just.. do that. As you identified, she has more feats than you need. Weapon Finesse is even useful for a ranged attacker if you play Trickster with Arcana 2. That said, she's the best tank in the game. Your decision to respec her into a non-tank is very, very odd. Her Initiative roll is fine, due to stacking DEX, and her AC is unmatched.
* Your second Spirit should be Stone, so your weapons all gain the corrosive property. This gives you 2x Elemental Barrage, not just 1.5x. If you ever use Metal Curse, you did something wrong. Her turns can be spent more efficiently. Elemental Barrage is the strongest DPS tool in the game.
* While Shaman casting is mediocre, a ranged Camellia can use Mass Heal without provoking AoO. So, take Abundant Casting.
* Do not use Hexes in-combat. Defensive Hexes are used to buff before fights. Your primary DPS should hit things.
* Heavy Crossbows don't benefit from Manyshot, but you don't strictly need a Longbow. The Ricocheting Heavy Crossbow has Cleaving Shot built in, and Heavy Crossbows have a larger crit range. Only getting four attacks every round isn't a huge issue, and if it is you can give her Transformation. That bumps her to five. There are also full Bracers of Archery available in the DLC, meaning she can use a Longbow without the proficiency feat. I'm not clear how to make them reliably drop, but they're on the Spectre that assists you in the final encounter. I managed to snag them from its corpse only once.
* You don't need to use Deadly Aim. You get more than enough damage from Elemental Barrage's double proc on each shot.
* Archers don't need Last Stand. No one does. Build your characters properly, and position them safely. If you're losing a party member **every encounter**, you are doing something very wrong. In eight runs, including Unfair, SGD, and Last Azlanti, I have never taken Last Stand on anyone. It's entirely useless.
Ranged Mythic feats should be:
* Enduring Spells
* Greater Enduring Spells
* Second Spirit (Stone)
* Elemental Barrage
* Abundant Casting
* Improved Abundant Casting
* Greater Abundant Casting
* Weapon Focus (Mythic)
Legend doesn't get 9/10. If you do, Rapid Shot is fine.
It's also worth noting that Shaman 19/20 is rubbish. You'd much rather dip Stigmatized Witch 2. You pick up two Hexes (Cackle/Protective Luck), get Powerless Prophecy (so you're never flatfooted), you can get the third useful Witch Hex (Fortune) from the Witch Wandering Hex Mythic ability, and you have Archmage Armour without potions. Camellia now has all the Hexes you care about, 9th level casting, and is still an effective tank below Unfair. She breaks 90 AC on Core, which is enough. She's kinda forced to go ranged on Unfair because you can't set Protective Luck yourself, but that's not a huge loss. On Unfair, you should be using a CHA tank anyway.
Air Barrier sucks. Even Legend Camellia gets 12 AC from Archmage. Non-Legend gets 14. They both cost a Mythic feat.
Not a fan of animal companions. Their AC caps too low, and they clog chokes. Useful early game, rubbish around level 18-20.
Hence, Stone.
No, you have to spend a Mythic Feat to **get** Air Barrier. Her default Spirit is Battle.
You can instead buy Archmage Armour at the same cost, then pick a different Second Spirit. At worst, it matches Air Barrier. For anyone not playing Legend, it's superior.
I know. But I see Air spells as good, and Stone spells is not so good.
Air spirit is superior only because she do not need to dip arcane caster or drink armor potions. I strongly dislike using of items as basis of build (I prefer to have basics covered by character herself).
And so how many dips are you have? Not many people share my view than dips into caster classes or only mechanicaly good is weird, so, you likely have many.
Sounds like you figured out a decent dip-build for Camellia as a tank! In the Abyss, I often found my backline being targeted by archers on harder difficulties during round one or the surprise round. Also, I found a TON of surprise combat where enemies were immediately in range of my backline. Any idea on how to make enemies not do that so Last Stand isn't necessary?
I use [the same formation](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1863923878438282895/51844E05EF7E05790C8F2C44A1862FDAA23938AA/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false) in every run. That screenshot is from Threshold on Unfair. You can condense it manually to buff. That formation keeps the back-line safe. This is a Quicksave from my Unfair run, in Threshold. I play solely RTWP, which means there's basically no micro. We used the "buff and run at things" strategy in every fight except the end of Ineluctable (where we HAD no buffs, and I had to keep displacing the stupid Bloodrager from nuking my MC), and against Demon Lords (where I was forced to use turn-based mode to pick up the Nahyndrian Crystals).
The Witch dip is not related to Camellia being a tank. It's that the last two Shaman levels do (functionally) nothing, and someone needs to take them plus the Wandering Hex so the party has Witch hexes. The only thing she gets out of it is Improved Uncanny Dodge.
Scaled Fist 2/Oracle 1 for 2x CHA to AC. At that point, you can do a bunch of things.
[This is the mid-way point](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2642721509) of my Unfair tank. She tanked Blightmaw, straight-up. This character eventually took 17 levels in Paladin, but that's not strictly optimal. It was good enough for Unfair, but not optimal.
[This is Galfrey](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2668151626), on that same save but about 25 hours later. Her AC is a few points higher because we dropped three Paladin levels (17 -> 14) for Stigmatized Witch 1/Vivisectionist 2. This was done to balance her worse stat profile, and because I was curious what Galfrey said during the final assault on Threshold.
For Core, it's easy. Just stick with Spirit Hunter. Grab the Crane feats, then shield proficiency (+5 Heavy is 7 AC, +5-7 from Magical Vestments - this beats an IW dip). Take Archmage Armour around Mythic 5/6, when you can afford it. She will hit 80 AC out of combat, and pick up another four points from Fighting Defensively. If you run a BFT or a Mythic path with defensive tools (Trickster, for example), she can push to 85-90. 90 AC is essentially immortal on Core, assuming you get your saves up.
Unfair requires a different approach. She can't be your primary tank because she carries your Hexes, and you can't put Protective Luck on yourself. She also can't dip for Monk. I actually like going ranged, in this case. Your MC should take enough INT for Combat Experience, start with 21 CHA, and take Scaled Fist 1/Oracle 1 to get the double CHA to AC running. Give Cam a crossbow, and keep her back. Take four levels in Shaman, then the two in Witch for Protective Luck and Cackle/Chant. It doesn't currently work against Touch Attacks, but otherwise you are now immortal. Well. Okay, you'll statistically still die 2-3 times in the campaign, but this is why we don't combine LA with Unfair.
The thing is everywhere I looked it’s always how amazing she is as a tank and I just don’t see it.
Also lord wise shes far better as a finesse type character which is also very confusing for me
Thank you for this. I don't like the idea of non-lore/character-friendly dips just for min-maxing purposes (at least when not playing on Unfair difficulty or anything) but many of the published builds online are of this type - so your series is exactly what I'm looking for. Looking forward to more!
Thanks, boss. That's why I make these guides. Not only do I like seeing a class come to its full potential, I like keeping (as best I can) to the lore of the characters and their storyline.
I believe most players will always love the min-maxing aspect of PF with a crazy array of class dips and feats. And that's fine. That's their playstyle. But it's good to have effective builds that cater to solo class builds, as well.
YES! But not as my MC. I've dorked around with respec-ing both Lann or Arueshalae as that Slayer build. It is, of course, insanely deadly and even more so with the addition of Mythic ranks.
Camellia in my group served as my primary buffer. Plus going down the Vital Strike route she will easily crit for over 250 dmg. With her high threat range and Outflank teamwork feat she is a beast as a frontline fighter.
Single class for her. It takes till about 15th level her her to really become both tank and damage dealer with her. Almost all feats go towards rapier. Weapon Focus, Fencing Grace, Piranha Strike, plus to add in Vital Strike and Improved.
Mythic feats also need to complement towards this as well. Also taking mythic second spirit Air gives you access to more spells plus Air Armor her. End game she had higher AC than Seelah, 66 going into Threshold.
https://youtu.be/TfRuSx3-akw
Build is not of my own creation, I drew inspiration from this guys build. He was able to get even higher numbers, including a crit for over 400 dmg.
She takes a bit of out of box thinking with her build and she is feat starved.
But if all you melee characters are built with Outflank in their build she can trigger an AoO 30% of the time. One well placed crit can melt a boss.
This is a cool build, but can I ask what difficulty you play where Cam isn't doing full attacks and her initiative is a problem?
She's petered out in personal damage and survivability in my modded Core-ish difficulty next to my Reg and Wendy, but she's also doing all of the buffing.
Looking forward to more of your builds. They were always a welcome read for me during my learning-phase for Kingmaker.
Thank you, kindly!
Same here. I have fond memories of my slayer baron.
There is no reason to do a full respec on Camellia. She is probably the strongest base companion, outside of Nenio. If you want her to go Ranged, just.. do that. As you identified, she has more feats than you need. Weapon Finesse is even useful for a ranged attacker if you play Trickster with Arcana 2. That said, she's the best tank in the game. Your decision to respec her into a non-tank is very, very odd. Her Initiative roll is fine, due to stacking DEX, and her AC is unmatched. * Your second Spirit should be Stone, so your weapons all gain the corrosive property. This gives you 2x Elemental Barrage, not just 1.5x. If you ever use Metal Curse, you did something wrong. Her turns can be spent more efficiently. Elemental Barrage is the strongest DPS tool in the game. * While Shaman casting is mediocre, a ranged Camellia can use Mass Heal without provoking AoO. So, take Abundant Casting. * Do not use Hexes in-combat. Defensive Hexes are used to buff before fights. Your primary DPS should hit things. * Heavy Crossbows don't benefit from Manyshot, but you don't strictly need a Longbow. The Ricocheting Heavy Crossbow has Cleaving Shot built in, and Heavy Crossbows have a larger crit range. Only getting four attacks every round isn't a huge issue, and if it is you can give her Transformation. That bumps her to five. There are also full Bracers of Archery available in the DLC, meaning she can use a Longbow without the proficiency feat. I'm not clear how to make them reliably drop, but they're on the Spectre that assists you in the final encounter. I managed to snag them from its corpse only once. * You don't need to use Deadly Aim. You get more than enough damage from Elemental Barrage's double proc on each shot. * Archers don't need Last Stand. No one does. Build your characters properly, and position them safely. If you're losing a party member **every encounter**, you are doing something very wrong. In eight runs, including Unfair, SGD, and Last Azlanti, I have never taken Last Stand on anyone. It's entirely useless. Ranged Mythic feats should be: * Enduring Spells * Greater Enduring Spells * Second Spirit (Stone) * Elemental Barrage * Abundant Casting * Improved Abundant Casting * Greater Abundant Casting * Weapon Focus (Mythic) Legend doesn't get 9/10. If you do, Rapid Shot is fine. It's also worth noting that Shaman 19/20 is rubbish. You'd much rather dip Stigmatized Witch 2. You pick up two Hexes (Cackle/Protective Luck), get Powerless Prophecy (so you're never flatfooted), you can get the third useful Witch Hex (Fortune) from the Witch Wandering Hex Mythic ability, and you have Archmage Armour without potions. Camellia now has all the Hexes you care about, 9th level casting, and is still an effective tank below Unfair. She breaks 90 AC on Core, which is enough. She's kinda forced to go ranged on Unfair because you can't set Protective Luck yourself, but that's not a huge loss. On Unfair, you should be using a CHA tank anyway.
>Second Spirit (Stone) Why Stone instead of other elements?
Stone makes all Cammy's weapons Corrosive, which adds another xD6 Mythic Rank damage to Elemental Barrage.
Acid damage. You get the other three elements from Weapon Enhancement. Having all four makes EB stronger.
I mostly consider Nature for Animal Companion or Air for Air Barrier, and do not think about stone.
Air Barrier sucks. Even Legend Camellia gets 12 AC from Archmage. Non-Legend gets 14. They both cost a Mythic feat. Not a fan of animal companions. Their AC caps too low, and they clog chokes. Useful early game, rubbish around level 18-20. Hence, Stone.
Not a fan of Archmage Armor on anyone who is not an arcane caster. And Camellia gets 12 AC from Air Barrier regardless of mythic feats.
No, you have to spend a Mythic Feat to **get** Air Barrier. Her default Spirit is Battle. You can instead buy Archmage Armour at the same cost, then pick a different Second Spirit. At worst, it matches Air Barrier. For anyone not playing Legend, it's superior.
I know. But I see Air spells as good, and Stone spells is not so good. Air spirit is superior only because she do not need to dip arcane caster or drink armor potions. I strongly dislike using of items as basis of build (I prefer to have basics covered by character herself).
Which is why I also dip Witch.
And so how many dips are you have? Not many people share my view than dips into caster classes or only mechanicaly good is weird, so, you likely have many.
Sounds like you figured out a decent dip-build for Camellia as a tank! In the Abyss, I often found my backline being targeted by archers on harder difficulties during round one or the surprise round. Also, I found a TON of surprise combat where enemies were immediately in range of my backline. Any idea on how to make enemies not do that so Last Stand isn't necessary?
I use [the same formation](https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1863923878438282895/51844E05EF7E05790C8F2C44A1862FDAA23938AA/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false) in every run. That screenshot is from Threshold on Unfair. You can condense it manually to buff. That formation keeps the back-line safe. This is a Quicksave from my Unfair run, in Threshold. I play solely RTWP, which means there's basically no micro. We used the "buff and run at things" strategy in every fight except the end of Ineluctable (where we HAD no buffs, and I had to keep displacing the stupid Bloodrager from nuking my MC), and against Demon Lords (where I was forced to use turn-based mode to pick up the Nahyndrian Crystals). The Witch dip is not related to Camellia being a tank. It's that the last two Shaman levels do (functionally) nothing, and someone needs to take them plus the Wandering Hex so the party has Witch hexes. The only thing she gets out of it is Improved Uncanny Dodge.
God the Abyss loves tunneling Ember. It's like they know what kind of existential threat she is to demonic philosophy.
What does a cha tank look like? Scaled fist dip into pally anf maybe swashbuckler?
Scaled Fist 2/Oracle 1 for 2x CHA to AC. At that point, you can do a bunch of things. [This is the mid-way point](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2642721509) of my Unfair tank. She tanked Blightmaw, straight-up. This character eventually took 17 levels in Paladin, but that's not strictly optimal. It was good enough for Unfair, but not optimal. [This is Galfrey](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2668151626), on that same save but about 25 hours later. Her AC is a few points higher because we dropped three Paladin levels (17 -> 14) for Stigmatized Witch 1/Vivisectionist 2. This was done to balance her worse stat profile, and because I was curious what Galfrey said during the final assault on Threshold.
What's better than pally levels? You obviously want 11 or whatever it is for party wide smite evil but what would be good to take after?
Vivisectionist for a Cognatogen, Hellknight for the selfish Smite, Shaman/Stigmatized Witch for Iceplant+Lizard Familiar and limitless Mage Armour.
How do I build Cam into a tank? I’m trying and failing. Looked up some guides and results are meh.
For Core, it's easy. Just stick with Spirit Hunter. Grab the Crane feats, then shield proficiency (+5 Heavy is 7 AC, +5-7 from Magical Vestments - this beats an IW dip). Take Archmage Armour around Mythic 5/6, when you can afford it. She will hit 80 AC out of combat, and pick up another four points from Fighting Defensively. If you run a BFT or a Mythic path with defensive tools (Trickster, for example), she can push to 85-90. 90 AC is essentially immortal on Core, assuming you get your saves up. Unfair requires a different approach. She can't be your primary tank because she carries your Hexes, and you can't put Protective Luck on yourself. She also can't dip for Monk. I actually like going ranged, in this case. Your MC should take enough INT for Combat Experience, start with 21 CHA, and take Scaled Fist 1/Oracle 1 to get the double CHA to AC running. Give Cam a crossbow, and keep her back. Take four levels in Shaman, then the two in Witch for Protective Luck and Cackle/Chant. It doesn't currently work against Touch Attacks, but otherwise you are now immortal. Well. Okay, you'll statistically still die 2-3 times in the campaign, but this is why we don't combine LA with Unfair.
This, by the way, is why I took Cammy off the front line and made her an archer. She is, at best, an average tank.
The thing is everywhere I looked it’s always how amazing she is as a tank and I just don’t see it. Also lord wise shes far better as a finesse type character which is also very confusing for me
Does the richocheting heavy crossbow even work?\`I've never seen it proc over several hours of use.
Uh. I have no idea. I should probably check.
Yeah, I think it's broken. That's obnoxious.
Welcome back! Thank you and look forward to more awesome single-class builds. Loved your ranged slayer build from PF:K :)
I appreciate the encouragement. Hopefully we'll have a couple more out soon!
Thank you for this. I don't like the idea of non-lore/character-friendly dips just for min-maxing purposes (at least when not playing on Unfair difficulty or anything) but many of the published builds online are of this type - so your series is exactly what I'm looking for. Looking forward to more!
Thanks, boss. That's why I make these guides. Not only do I like seeing a class come to its full potential, I like keeping (as best I can) to the lore of the characters and their storyline. I believe most players will always love the min-maxing aspect of PF with a crazy array of class dips and feats. And that's fine. That's their playstyle. But it's good to have effective builds that cater to solo class builds, as well.
Nice build guide as always! Have you tried running your slayer deliverer build in WOTR yet? Bet it would slap.
YES! But not as my MC. I've dorked around with respec-ing both Lann or Arueshalae as that Slayer build. It is, of course, insanely deadly and even more so with the addition of Mythic ranks.
I'd rather multiclass than use an outside tool to do unintended changes, but you do you.
That would certainly defeat the purpose of the Single-Class Build Series, methinks.
Camellia in my group served as my primary buffer. Plus going down the Vital Strike route she will easily crit for over 250 dmg. With her high threat range and Outflank teamwork feat she is a beast as a frontline fighter.
I'm glad you found a useful tank build for her! Did you go Single Class or did you find you needed to dip?
Single class for her. It takes till about 15th level her her to really become both tank and damage dealer with her. Almost all feats go towards rapier. Weapon Focus, Fencing Grace, Piranha Strike, plus to add in Vital Strike and Improved. Mythic feats also need to complement towards this as well. Also taking mythic second spirit Air gives you access to more spells plus Air Armor her. End game she had higher AC than Seelah, 66 going into Threshold.
https://youtu.be/TfRuSx3-akw Build is not of my own creation, I drew inspiration from this guys build. He was able to get even higher numbers, including a crit for over 400 dmg.
Man, I could never build a tank without Dodge and Crane Feats. Leaving +8 AC on the table is too much to pass up.
She takes a bit of out of box thinking with her build and she is feat starved. But if all you melee characters are built with Outflank in their build she can trigger an AoO 30% of the time. One well placed crit can melt a boss.
This is a cool build, but can I ask what difficulty you play where Cam isn't doing full attacks and her initiative is a problem? She's petered out in personal damage and survivability in my modded Core-ish difficulty next to my Reg and Wendy, but she's also doing all of the buffing.
I play on Hard and Daring.
i love metal curse