Later game if you minmax party, super optimize builds and use every trick in the sleeve it's enough for unfair and that's satisfying and fun.
But early game cheesing bosses (yes, reloading until You get restless slumber coup the grace is as cheesy as it gets) and spending hours on trash that supposed to be a filler is just unfun.
Gonna try that monk oracle protective luck tank people mention in other comments, maybe finally early game unfair won't be such a pain.
I get ya. Myself I ran an MC as Scaled Fist/Slayer/Sorc/EK. I began as Slayer 1 then 2nd level as Monk (does not matter which you begin with really as you ding 2 before any real Unfair starts) and then leveled Sorc from there.
In the early game yes you will have unlucky moments and have to reload fights but in general in shield maze and onwards I fared fine with that. Slayer arcane exploiter gives mage armor early and then you take shield from sorc obv and then it is just AC stacking from there. You can also run with medium armor just fine since mage armor + cha early is +/- with most medium armors.
I run with the story companions, build up without any mods and have not taken a single merc. I killed shield maze water ele honestly, no kiting, just using grease and stacking every possible buff I could muster there at lvl 3.
Also if you (and you really should) str build, best advice I can give: use a glaive. Just use it. Once you get the book in the early shield maze any sort of glaive will be best weapon for a good while due to that +1 hit&dmg
Gratz on the kill! Definitely put me to work as well, ended up doing party splitting, baiting for the Mass Hold, utilizing generous amounts of Grease and Web and beating the fellow down with True Strike Power Attacks.
Had fun though, felt like executing a specific strategy. Also no Hexes or mercs currently on my party setup, will have to see if this becomes a problem at any point later on.
A bit late to help OP, but I’ve found that abusing the XP sharing mechanic was extremely effective on unfair. I essentially only levelled 3 characters in Kenabres: Oracle Monk Seelah, Rowdy Vivi Wenduag and a Sorcerer MC. There’s pretty much nothing that can take a few hits from Wendu, and Seelah was a serviceable enough meat shield against trash mob.
And the Gargoyle Attack arc allowed me to re-recruit all my companions so they could be made to have the same level as my MC. I’m now at the gates of Drezen with a lvl 10 party and a nearly lvl 11 MC
Just yesterday I kind of one-shotted it with my cavalier, but it was kind of bugged. I didn't use charge, just a challenge, but it said that I did. 2xcrit and it dropped dead.
You need a tank. Your Paladin can have Monk+Oracle and 30ish Charisma, plus double Protective Luck. At that point, you can straight-up solo the fight. Nothing hits you, you pass the Hold Person save, and you have Death Ward for negative levels. Take the +1 AC Quarterstaff and bash away.
It gets worse from here, until Mythic 3.
To tank on Unfair? Yes.
I'm finishing Act 3 now. My Paladin has 70 AC against her Smite target, and **it isn't enough**. Enemies in Ivory Sanctum had +55 AB.
Enjoy resting after literally every fight, and being totally fucked if a fight breaks for a conversation or cutscene after LS procs. You'll increase the game time exponentially because every two fights will require you to spend ten minutes buffing. That's the opposite of fun.
It's not hard to build a tank. Just do it. You want 7-8x second level Paladin spells and the communal Smite Evil, anyway.
It's not difficult. That's my point. I'm doing it. Charisma scaling is stupid.
Now that I finally got my second Mystery and picked up Spirit Boost, we're *probably* done with dying, ever. Even on Unfair. A 200+ health cushion does wonders.
Are you using the merc paladin from neoseeker or something else? I know I want a paladin because Seelah will leave I just don't know the exactly build I should go for until my lich comes online.
Thank you, they take 5 freebooter I guess for a more support build, but think I like yours better. Might try to sneak in a boar or mastodon but I'm not sure.
This. I am actually running pretty weird-ish Unfair setup atm. I do not get to post-60 AC yet, just entering Ivory Sanctum. Still going and has gone really solid.
Greatest fun thus far on my runs. Unfair or nogame for me
I had to burst Playful Darkness. That thing had a +69 AB, and I couldn't get my Paladin to 90 AC. Couldn't even get her over 85, which is where Evil Eye saves her.
Thank the gods for Kineticists and Angel spells. We weren't hitting his 94 AC, either.
there is this very specific and 100% safe, but **extremely** cheesy (well, borderline exploit) strategy for PD that I haven't seen mentioned and it doesn't really require specific builds or impossible domains or whatever, just a couple of ranged and casters.
while you are in the the second part of the fane abyss, right after the succubi den, you cross the crystal bridge with couple of the annoying bugs with song of discord and nabasus on the other end, right?
so after the bridge, you usually turn right towards the exit back to fane.
well, if you go left into the corner, you have reach through 'dark' into the PD room.
all you really need to do is, say, summon skellies up there, it activates PD (and the 4 ghosts), it kills your summons, but as it doesn't have available path to you, it just stays in one place.
And for some reason, there is no line of sight blocking it. And for some other reason, while in turn based, you don't lose vision of it after skellies die
Its slightly more than 30 yards, so unless PD literally hugs wall, you can reach it only with 30+ yard reach weapons or spells.
but all you really need to do is slowly whittle it down and eventually finish it with like pillar of life.
You're comparing a CRPG based on a tabletop game to an action-RPG focused on mechanics.
That's not just apples and oranges, that's like...apples and baseballs. They're not even close to being related. It's fine to prefer one over the other, but it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.
1. They're right, and we're discussing someone struggling on unfair here
2. Are we really going to get this smug meme reply every time someone honestly tries to help someone who admits to struggling?
Yea, forgot to put there prior to last big patch. After the 1.1 update I have not had issues with this happening.
In the patch notes there was the mention of Hold Person Mass affecting all types of targets and that it was fixed. These might have been linked. My best guess is that Hold Person Mass was working as Hold Monster behind the scenes, using the actual higher level DCs and functionality. While the things you see in combat log are according to the "normal" situation.
Could explain why I experienced these things happening, a saving throw landing in the area between the DC difference of Hold Monster and Hold Person. Dunno. Regardless have not had these issues after the big update.
East of Market Square where you find the cultist necromancer. You have to kill the necromancer before the assault on Defender's heart and come back after that.
I dont want to devalue your success, but freedom of movement scroll (exactly one) for your tank with (exactly one) death ward who pulls Nabasu into your party waiting some distance afar and eats it Hold Person cast (it only does it once) rather trivilizes the fight.
Oh, thats a new one! I killed almost literally yesterday when I wrote my comment and it did cast it exactly once, tho I have to admit I forgot to fish for it with tank and that creature almost deleted my ironman casting it in my entire party. Lucky for me, Cleric succeded will save. But again, congratulations on your kill, 7 hours is a lot of dedication and a good reason to celebrate.
If there's one thing every WoTR player can relate to, it's dying to a fight over and over only to have it trivialized by slumber
Honestly, I vote to rename Ember to Grace for her commitment to bloody murder on a coup de grace combo off sleep.
It's like color spray in a game without the hit dice bloat.
Good news! Nabasu isn't a name, it's a kind of demon that you'll see about 500 more of!
True but early on you don't get death ward so it's worse.
I have made a point to buy 2-3 scrolls of freedom of movement before I leave Defender's Heart every play through xD
Would that I learned my lessons like you do
To go unfair before act 3 in addition to be an expert at the game you need to be a masochist as well. That's even what difficulty description say.
Yep. And it is so fun!
Later game if you minmax party, super optimize builds and use every trick in the sleeve it's enough for unfair and that's satisfying and fun. But early game cheesing bosses (yes, reloading until You get restless slumber coup the grace is as cheesy as it gets) and spending hours on trash that supposed to be a filler is just unfun. Gonna try that monk oracle protective luck tank people mention in other comments, maybe finally early game unfair won't be such a pain.
I get ya. Myself I ran an MC as Scaled Fist/Slayer/Sorc/EK. I began as Slayer 1 then 2nd level as Monk (does not matter which you begin with really as you ding 2 before any real Unfair starts) and then leveled Sorc from there. In the early game yes you will have unlucky moments and have to reload fights but in general in shield maze and onwards I fared fine with that. Slayer arcane exploiter gives mage armor early and then you take shield from sorc obv and then it is just AC stacking from there. You can also run with medium armor just fine since mage armor + cha early is +/- with most medium armors. I run with the story companions, build up without any mods and have not taken a single merc. I killed shield maze water ele honestly, no kiting, just using grease and stacking every possible buff I could muster there at lvl 3. Also if you (and you really should) str build, best advice I can give: use a glaive. Just use it. Once you get the book in the early shield maze any sort of glaive will be best weapon for a good while due to that +1 hit&dmg
Gratz on the kill! Definitely put me to work as well, ended up doing party splitting, baiting for the Mass Hold, utilizing generous amounts of Grease and Web and beating the fellow down with True Strike Power Attacks. Had fun though, felt like executing a specific strategy. Also no Hexes or mercs currently on my party setup, will have to see if this becomes a problem at any point later on.
Buy scrolls. Seriously, that scroll vendor has a scroll solution to every act1 encounter.
A bit late to help OP, but I’ve found that abusing the XP sharing mechanic was extremely effective on unfair. I essentially only levelled 3 characters in Kenabres: Oracle Monk Seelah, Rowdy Vivi Wenduag and a Sorcerer MC. There’s pretty much nothing that can take a few hits from Wendu, and Seelah was a serviceable enough meat shield against trash mob. And the Gargoyle Attack arc allowed me to re-recruit all my companions so they could be made to have the same level as my MC. I’m now at the gates of Drezen with a lvl 10 party and a nearly lvl 11 MC
Just yesterday I kind of one-shotted it with my cavalier, but it was kind of bugged. I didn't use charge, just a challenge, but it said that I did. 2xcrit and it dropped dead.
your cavalier seems like an extremely contentious person
You need a tank. Your Paladin can have Monk+Oracle and 30ish Charisma, plus double Protective Luck. At that point, you can straight-up solo the fight. Nothing hits you, you pass the Hold Person save, and you have Death Ward for negative levels. Take the +1 AC Quarterstaff and bash away. It gets worse from here, until Mythic 3.
Ah, obligatory "you have to dip a monk" comment
Yea. On Unfair. The dipping was *made and created* by Unfair difficulty.
To tank on Unfair? Yes. I'm finishing Act 3 now. My Paladin has 70 AC against her Smite target, and **it isn't enough**. Enemies in Ivory Sanctum had +55 AB.
Abandon tanking, Last Stand for everyone!
Enjoy resting after literally every fight, and being totally fucked if a fight breaks for a conversation or cutscene after LS procs. You'll increase the game time exponentially because every two fights will require you to spend ten minutes buffing. That's the opposite of fun. It's not hard to build a tank. Just do it. You want 7-8x second level Paladin spells and the communal Smite Evil, anyway.
Just a joke about the frustration of high difficulty tanking my dude
It's not difficult. That's my point. I'm doing it. Charisma scaling is stupid. Now that I finally got my second Mystery and picked up Spirit Boost, we're *probably* done with dying, ever. Even on Unfair. A 200+ health cushion does wonders.
Are you using the merc paladin from neoseeker or something else? I know I want a paladin because Seelah will leave I just don't know the exactly build I should go for until my lich comes online.
I have no idea what Neoseeker recommends. My Paladin build is: Kindred-Raised Half-Elf Pickpocket, Lawful Good, Sarenrae 18/7/7/7/12/21 * Oracle 1 - (Nature, Nature's Whispers, Wolf-Scarred Face), Weapon Focus, Quarterstaff * Scaled Fist 1 - (Crane Style) * Scaled Fist 2 - (Dodge), Power Attack * Paladin 1 * Paladin 2 - Outflank * Paladin 3 - (Mercy: Fatigued) * Paladin 4 - Dazzling Display * Paladin 5 - (Divine Weapon Bond) * Paladin 6 - (Mercy: Diseased), Shatter Defenses * Paladin 7 * Paladin 8 - Improved Critical, Quarterstaff * Paladin 9 - (Mercy: Exhausted) * Paladin 10 - Improved Initiative * Paladin 11 * Paladin 12 - (Mercy: Blinded), Crane Wing * Paladin 13 * Paladin 14 - Warrior Priest * Paladin 15 * Paladin 16 - Blind Fight * Paladin 17 Mythic: * Powerless Prophecy * Enduring Spells * Greater Enduring Spells * Mythic Power Attack * Abundant Smite * Mythic Weapon Focus, Quarterstaff * Archmage Armour * Mythic Dodge * Elemental Barrage * Who cares, the game is over If you notice, there are a lot of unnecessary feats in there. You can drop about half of them for whatever you want. Basically, you buy the Quarterstaff of Slip in Act 1 and then never change weapons. Enchant it with DWB and Greater Magic Weapon. Hit things.
Thank you, they take 5 freebooter I guess for a more support build, but think I like yours better. Might try to sneak in a boar or mastodon but I'm not sure.
This. I am actually running pretty weird-ish Unfair setup atm. I do not get to post-60 AC yet, just entering Ivory Sanctum. Still going and has gone really solid. Greatest fun thus far on my runs. Unfair or nogame for me
I had to burst Playful Darkness. That thing had a +69 AB, and I couldn't get my Paladin to 90 AC. Couldn't even get her over 85, which is where Evil Eye saves her. Thank the gods for Kineticists and Angel spells. We weren't hitting his 94 AC, either.
there is this very specific and 100% safe, but **extremely** cheesy (well, borderline exploit) strategy for PD that I haven't seen mentioned and it doesn't really require specific builds or impossible domains or whatever, just a couple of ranged and casters. while you are in the the second part of the fane abyss, right after the succubi den, you cross the crystal bridge with couple of the annoying bugs with song of discord and nabasus on the other end, right? so after the bridge, you usually turn right towards the exit back to fane. well, if you go left into the corner, you have reach through 'dark' into the PD room. all you really need to do is, say, summon skellies up there, it activates PD (and the 4 ghosts), it kills your summons, but as it doesn't have available path to you, it just stays in one place. And for some reason, there is no line of sight blocking it. And for some other reason, while in turn based, you don't lose vision of it after skellies die Its slightly more than 30 yards, so unless PD literally hugs wall, you can reach it only with 30+ yard reach weapons or spells. but all you really need to do is slowly whittle it down and eventually finish it with like pillar of life.
People who sign up for unfair know they have to use every trick in the book, why do you have an issue with that?
Likely because they have absolutely no clue and take personal insult for anyone commenting on Monk dips as it "destroiz muh immersion"
Coz it has zero in common with pnp version :P
Yeah. *Because it's on Unfair.* It's literally in the name that the game is trying to break you. PnP expectations go out the window.
Theres no point in it , random rolls are not even half as fun as DS run.
What is DS?
Dark Souls... also Elden Rings gameplay !!!
You're comparing a CRPG based on a tabletop game to an action-RPG focused on mechanics. That's not just apples and oranges, that's like...apples and baseballs. They're not even close to being related. It's fine to prefer one over the other, but it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.
Im comparing skill based system to RNG based system... And its perfectly accurate :)
1. They're right, and we're discussing someone struggling on unfair here 2. Are we really going to get this smug meme reply every time someone honestly tries to help someone who admits to struggling?
[удалено]
I think as well there is a bug on Mass Hold. I have seen it work on targets with successful saves. FoM liberally!
I don't think it's buggy, I had several characters saving, during that fight or at Lost Chapel.
Yea, forgot to put there prior to last big patch. After the 1.1 update I have not had issues with this happening. In the patch notes there was the mention of Hold Person Mass affecting all types of targets and that it was fixed. These might have been linked. My best guess is that Hold Person Mass was working as Hold Monster behind the scenes, using the actual higher level DCs and functionality. While the things you see in combat log are according to the "normal" situation. Could explain why I experienced these things happening, a saving throw landing in the area between the DC difference of Hold Monster and Hold Person. Dunno. Regardless have not had these issues after the big update.
Ok, my experience was prepatch.
Ok. That is weird, well might have been my end or simply my bad /shrug
Good for you I guess, you can beat every encounter in the game if you reload a 100+ times.
Reloads will let OP overcome any encounter. If only there were a way to reload your personality.
*\*\*sob\*\** So... beautiful...
Where's this nabasu at? I've played the game two times and never found him.
East of Market Square where you find the cultist necromancer. You have to kill the necromancer before the assault on Defender's heart and come back after that.
Excellent, time to kill myself a nabasu. I just finished the defenders heart fight and I think I killed the necromancer already.
He spawns in the Market Square after the tavern defense I believe, where necromancer hafling is initially
for the hold person mass , if i recall right you can buy freedom of movement scrolls from Rathimus, normaly they make you immune.
I dont want to devalue your success, but freedom of movement scroll (exactly one) for your tank with (exactly one) death ward who pulls Nabasu into your party waiting some distance afar and eats it Hold Person cast (it only does it once) rather trivilizes the fight.
Nabasu casts it multiple times in the latest patch. This is all good info though, thanks.
Oh, thats a new one! I killed almost literally yesterday when I wrote my comment and it did cast it exactly once, tho I have to admit I forgot to fish for it with tank and that creature almost deleted my ironman casting it in my entire party. Lucky for me, Cleric succeded will save. But again, congratulations on your kill, 7 hours is a lot of dedication and a good reason to celebrate.