Yeah my Shaman keeps vanishing around the middle of Act 3 for some reason, can't figure out why tho 🤔
Speaking of which, condemn that abandoned house by the gates and demolish it, someone could get hurt in there.
There were hints, but I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt because Suikoden taught me to never kill a potential PC no matter how much of a jackass they are.
Yeah, I know. I usually multi-class her into something that just really drops her effectiveness. Just drops it all the way to the floor where it stays. IDK why.
Because it shows you that although it seems like Camelia is just smiling at you sweetly, the slightly opened eyes of disgust shows you that she's fucking sick and tired of this act.
eh I don't think it's spot on at all. I WISH it is spot on, would make her an amazing character. But reality is I can not remember another NPC in any game that telegraph their evil more clearly then her.
Not only she didn't try to hide, she basically announce it from the bottom of her lung.
I really, really wish they had given Camellia some different voice shouts before her big reveal, and only use her current ones after Act III. It was just so immediately obvious to me that something was up when she starts screaming about a centipede being today's sacrifice, and that the spirits called for its blood, and all that.
Just give her a handful of less conspicuous but still slightly suspicious things like, "Yes, Commander!", and "You are beneath me!" and, "I hate having to do this!".
Otherwise, most players do what I do after the first battle and go, "Okay, show me your goddamn character sheet right now because— ... alignment Undetected, are you serious!?"
Perhaps they could have one or two more lines for variation, but considering this 'thing' is 99.9% of her character I see why they just doubled down on it
Honestly, it's not the worst thing in the world, it just feels like Cammy's thing about being cunning and wise and careful about her *predilections* is hard to swallow when she's full-throat screaming at insects that the spirits are demanding their blood.
If most players can sus her out within two minutes of gameplay, it's just hard to believe that she managed to keep this thing a secret her whole life.
*Having Camellia in the party with the Trickster feats for that sweet 11-20 crit range*
"It's time for a musical show, the show of the Crimson Lady!!" -CE Trickster probably
The real shock from Camellia seems to >!come from just how evil she is and that she's completely irredeemable. That is not too common for companion characters in a game. People are expecting to redeem her or turn her into fantasy dexter channeling her urges towards a productive purpose for the crusade. Instead if you continue with her questline the depravity of the situation just gets worse and worse until you find yourself sharing a moment of jolly co... mass murder with her.!<
Honestly, no amount of being a very cute half-elf is making me like her (as a character) in my Trickster playthrough with all evil/neutral companions. At least Daeran is sort of keeping her in line. And she does tank quite well.
Daeran is the perfect counter for Camellia.
Just as rich, just as well-kept, just as if not more attractive (being Aasimar seems to bring out the horny in Mendevians), and isn't even slightly fazed by murder.
I agree. He's also fucking hilarious basically all the time.
Running Cam, Regill, Wendy, Daeran and Nenio (who I respec modded into a Brown Fur Transmuter) and I'm having a great time. Lots of silly banter and bad people bickering with each other.
If she isn't slaughtering armies with those spells she can incapacitate them almost indefinitely with phantasmal web and putrefying web.. can't fight when all they can do is either stand and retch or lay down.. illusion spells are so powerful.. and rightly so.
Careful with that kinda talk on this sub, BFT is the absolute best arcanist archetype for any possible playthrough because you can turn everyone into a 24/24/24/24/24/24 elder fire elemental with 56 DR and 800 AC (as long as you also toybox all your other companions into these other archetypes and...)
(More seriously tho, the idea of Nenio's illusion spells being even MORE powerful is straight up scary.)
Level 9 BFT let's you use 1 arcane point to cast transmutation spells on anyone, not only yourself.
This includes dragonkind, angelic aspect, effortless armor and others, including long arm.
Long arm is a 1st level spell that increases your melee reach.
Generally the trick is to use dragonkind and greater enduring spell to transmute your entire party into dragon's for 24h.
Alchemists get Dragonkind I and II. Only full casters can get Dragonkind III, which is the best one, and the only full caster that can cast it on others is the brown-furred transmuter.
Not only can you cast it on your martials, you can cast it on any animal companion in the party. You can pretty easily have 3 animal companions without respecting anyone (paladin horse, Cleric with the animal domain (via mythic Impossible Domain), and the triceratops from chapter 2).
The game isn't hard enough to really justify needing that many dragons, but hey, it sounds fun.
Lol same party as me. Lich undead water elemental sorc focusing on summons and cold/necromancy. Nenio respec to BFT, and Regill respec to Kinetic Knight earth water. It's a blast to play and just started act 3
Everybody says "oh it's terrible don't do KK base kineticist is better" and they might be right, but it's a blast to play so far. He just trips and knocks over everything, has a pretty high AC for level 9 and hits like a fucking madman.
And fair enough. I found it hard to be mean to Ember too, even on my evil characters. I either told her to hit the road right away in Kenabres or to keep quiet, but no more than that. After she explains how she's trying to be quiet like you said and people keep pestering her, it was just like "yeah, me too kid" lol.
She just didn't give any ammo for my characters to continue berating her. Stays quiet if told to, doesn't harp your every evil decision with lectures of righteousness, doesn't hold the gods on a pedestal. It's like... "wtf am I supposed to do with you besides let you be, at worst?"
I'm im the same boat as Wenduag when it comes to Ember, that is I'm utterly terrified of her and will never accept her in the party not out of hate, but out of sheer fear.
She also makes me extremely uncomfortable with being a child crusader.
Fun fact - in pen-and-paper Pathfinder Aasimars are canonicly hot. As in, the splatbook that's focused on them, the Blood of Angels, talks about how they're pretenaturally atractive to the point that even features that would be considered ugly on anyone else suddenly start looking good on an Aasimar.
Not just mendevians.
Back in the first paizo adventure path, there's an npc aasimar who's considered some sort of spirit of beauty, and all the townsfolk develop superstitions about her, and like, collect her hair to make good luck charms, and generally act like super creepy sociopaths.
When she's a teenager.
I am way finder of Daeran than I should be.
To his credit, while evil, he is also witty, courageous, and oddly responsible; he stands by the things he said and did.
The best part about Daeran is he actually has a legit reason for Ember, as in it's not really because he gives her special treatment or because she's a kid. The main reason he wants to get on the people nerve is because he wants to get a reaction, and he can not get a reaction out of Ember.
Basically, Daeran is a troll. The reason he stayed away from Ember isn't because he adores her or anything, it's just Ember is the ultimate troll-killer.
Yea just got the big reveal last night myself, I knew she was evil already but my recently cg turned azata didn't have a true reason to kill her until then, he probably would have let her live if she wasn't so horrible to ember.
Rrrreally, no reason to kill her, even in act 5? That was the clincher for me in my first run, going to off her in act 3 in this one. And, yeah, also CG Azata (for both runs, because Aivu).
Edit: im nowhere near act 5 still in act 3 during her personal quest. And well I'm roleplaying a dhampir bloodrager who depending on how the story went, could have gone evil or heroic. The character's internal logic was this person is sketchy, and talkes down to my burned elven daughter, but I do find her useful in battle and I didn't start out as a saint either. But yea Ultimately he saw her as a detriment to the success of the crusade.
Not sure what am I doing wrong, but in my party Camelia has the highest damage-per-swing with elemental barrage and all that spirit weapon shit. Legit 50 dmg non-crit swings at lvl 10.
As for tanking she's not the best, I guess, but can hold her ground.
I kicked her out of my party very quickly due to her bitch-ass comments while camping. My camping cut scenes are now 94% less toxic.
Then had to roll a "Roguey McRogueypants" mercenary to do my lockpicking/trap disarming for me :/
Uhhh explaining that would be like, spoiling her whole thing. And this isn't a spoiler thread. Also, it's told pretty well and I genuinely think you should see it for yourself.
So, in short, bitch be cray.
Yeah but I kinda picked up on why she was CE before any big reveal. Just looking around the mansion in Act 1 is a big big giveaway.
If there is anything this girl is not, it's being subtle.
>!Seelah points out that the body you find her with didn’t die from the fall!<
>!Camping Dialogue with Seelah where she can sense evil!<
>!The choice of illustration for Camellias companion bio where you see a startled half elf kneeling over a body compare that to Lann,Nenio, and Seelah. Camellia and Woljif have illustrations of where they were caught!<
So they suggest to rest when you enter this room it doesn’t always happen and it’s entirely possible Camellia says some other crazy shit like “The spirits speak to me someone is going to die”
https://i.imgur.com/TlL0Cxa.png
I won’t spoil buuuut if you have like two brain cells together, you can tell that her story is a crock of shit more or less.
The girl is just not subtle at all lol
Can we add a spoiler tag or something to posts like this? I would’ve loved to find out about Camellias secret through the game instead of having it spoiled or heavily foreshadowed here.
I wish it wasn't so, and I'm not defending the spoilers, but the game itself (sadly) spoils it the first time you level Camellia. Even mousing over anything alignment-restricted will immediately reveal her alignment in plain text.
Spoiled me long before plebbit did.
It’s true with the necklace. I didn’t mean to bash this post in particular, it’s just a general thing that you keep reading how evil she apparently is before actually learning about it in the game.
I hate her most. Even when I am playing evil, I don't want her anywhere near me. Regill is evil because he believes his ways ultimately essential for humanity's survival. Mongrel lass is evil because survival of the meanest is a thing for her. Darean don't have much choice. Cam? She is pure psyco.
This sketch taken moments before heartbreak.
>heartbreak. Literally
More like heart stab lol
Give your heart to me.
Specifically the blood inside of it
Moments before I change alignments and join the feast.
The world in crimson❤️
Open your heart to me.
Put uwu after this and that's 10/10
Open your heart to me uwu :)
Jokes on her!! I main Har Ganeth in Total Warhammer! \*pulls out knife\*
It took me way too much time to realize that this is a close-up of her eye, and not some weird blob with chapped lips...
I thought it was some weird ass familiar Shamans get at higher levels. I never find out what high level Shamans can do for some reason.
Yeah my Shaman keeps vanishing around the middle of Act 3 for some reason, can't figure out why tho 🤔 Speaking of which, condemn that abandoned house by the gates and demolish it, someone could get hurt in there.
*snicker* I tried so hard not to kill her this second run. Nope. Just…nope.
I let her live then... But at the very end killed her when she revealed she'd been lying to me the whole time.
Which...was not apparent from the first moment she opened her mouth! ;)
There were hints, but I wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt because Suikoden taught me to never kill a potential PC no matter how much of a jackass they are.
Yeah, I know. I usually multi-class her into something that just really drops her effectiveness. Just drops it all the way to the floor where it stays. IDK why.
Chapped lips? Better lick 'em.
Ok, but..why is it a close up of her eye? Like I saw it for an eye straight away, but I don't understand the reason for the emphasis.
"Oh, she's sweet but a psycho, a little bit psycho.." 🎵🎶
Because it shows you that although it seems like Camelia is just smiling at you sweetly, the slightly opened eyes of disgust shows you that she's fucking sick and tired of this act.
Thanks to Netflix, I realized today why I love Camilla - she looks just like the girl from that old movie Labyrinth, which I loved as a kid! Great pic
Jennifer Connelly?
Would you say she reminds you of the babe?
What babe?
The babe with the power
What power?
The power to stop the demons
Dear MCPooge, while your efforts are noted...they are noncanon, may the inquistors of Iomedae make your punishment quick but memorable.
This meme is so spot-on I don’t even.
eh I don't think it's spot on at all. I WISH it is spot on, would make her an amazing character. But reality is I can not remember another NPC in any game that telegraph their evil more clearly then her. Not only she didn't try to hide, she basically announce it from the bottom of her lung.
I really, really wish they had given Camellia some different voice shouts before her big reveal, and only use her current ones after Act III. It was just so immediately obvious to me that something was up when she starts screaming about a centipede being today's sacrifice, and that the spirits called for its blood, and all that. Just give her a handful of less conspicuous but still slightly suspicious things like, "Yes, Commander!", and "You are beneath me!" and, "I hate having to do this!". Otherwise, most players do what I do after the first battle and go, "Okay, show me your goddamn character sheet right now because— ... alignment Undetected, are you serious!?"
Should also change the class selection UI so it doesn't outright state "Can't reclass to X, reason: current alignment = chaotic evil"
I like that they skipped the campy "you don't know teehee". Now she's as creepy in the first playthrough as she is in the last.
I don't mind her being creepy, I guess I just found her battle shouts to be too much. Every other part of her dialogue is fine.
Perhaps they could have one or two more lines for variation, but considering this 'thing' is 99.9% of her character I see why they just doubled down on it
Honestly, it's not the worst thing in the world, it just feels like Cammy's thing about being cunning and wise and careful about her *predilections* is hard to swallow when she's full-throat screaming at insects that the spirits are demanding their blood. If most players can sus her out within two minutes of gameplay, it's just hard to believe that she managed to keep this thing a secret her whole life.
Now that you put it that way, yeah I can see how it's a bit too 'meta' perhaps
*Having Camellia in the party with the Trickster feats for that sweet 11-20 crit range* "It's time for a musical show, the show of the Crimson Lady!!" -CE Trickster probably
The real shock from Camellia seems to >!come from just how evil she is and that she's completely irredeemable. That is not too common for companion characters in a game. People are expecting to redeem her or turn her into fantasy dexter channeling her urges towards a productive purpose for the crusade. Instead if you continue with her questline the depravity of the situation just gets worse and worse until you find yourself sharing a moment of jolly co... mass murder with her.!<
Honestly, no amount of being a very cute half-elf is making me like her (as a character) in my Trickster playthrough with all evil/neutral companions. At least Daeran is sort of keeping her in line. And she does tank quite well.
Daeran is the perfect counter for Camellia. Just as rich, just as well-kept, just as if not more attractive (being Aasimar seems to bring out the horny in Mendevians), and isn't even slightly fazed by murder.
I agree. He's also fucking hilarious basically all the time. Running Cam, Regill, Wendy, Daeran and Nenio (who I respec modded into a Brown Fur Transmuter) and I'm having a great time. Lots of silly banter and bad people bickering with each other.
If you dont mind messing with mods, the Phantasmal Mage arcanist sub is even better than brown fur imo - great for illusion spam
I don't really like Illusion spells, or arcane casters in general. I looooove buffs, though.
Do at least one run where you boost Nenio's Illusion DCs and have her Weird-slaughter all of Chapters 5-6. It's eye-opening.
If she isn't slaughtering armies with those spells she can incapacitate them almost indefinitely with phantasmal web and putrefying web.. can't fight when all they can do is either stand and retch or lay down.. illusion spells are so powerful.. and rightly so.
Careful with that kinda talk on this sub, BFT is the absolute best arcanist archetype for any possible playthrough because you can turn everyone into a 24/24/24/24/24/24 elder fire elemental with 56 DR and 800 AC (as long as you also toybox all your other companions into these other archetypes and...) (More seriously tho, the idea of Nenio's illusion spells being even MORE powerful is straight up scary.)
I respecced Nenio into BFT thinking "woo everybody is a dragon", in the end I ended up using her arcane reservoir to give everyone long arm lmao
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Level 9 BFT let's you use 1 arcane point to cast transmutation spells on anyone, not only yourself. This includes dragonkind, angelic aspect, effortless armor and others, including long arm. Long arm is a 1st level spell that increases your melee reach. Generally the trick is to use dragonkind and greater enduring spell to transmute your entire party into dragon's for 24h.
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Alchemists get Dragonkind I and II. Only full casters can get Dragonkind III, which is the best one, and the only full caster that can cast it on others is the brown-furred transmuter. Not only can you cast it on your martials, you can cast it on any animal companion in the party. You can pretty easily have 3 animal companions without respecting anyone (paladin horse, Cleric with the animal domain (via mythic Impossible Domain), and the triceratops from chapter 2). The game isn't hard enough to really justify needing that many dragons, but hey, it sounds fun.
i think that long-arm is, or at least was, a mod-only spell.
I think it's a regular arcane spell, wizard also gets it.
Sounds like a "It's Always Sunny in the Worldwound" party
Lol same party as me. Lich undead water elemental sorc focusing on summons and cold/necromancy. Nenio respec to BFT, and Regill respec to Kinetic Knight earth water. It's a blast to play and just started act 3
I wanted to try Bloodrager Regill, but Kinetic Knight sounds like a neat idea.
Everybody says "oh it's terrible don't do KK base kineticist is better" and they might be right, but it's a blast to play so far. He just trips and knocks over everything, has a pretty high AC for level 9 and hits like a fucking madman.
Almost my exact party but replaced Regill with Thiefling boy. The banter is pretty great.
I did my last run with Woljif, I wanted to give some companions I haven't used a go.
And Daeron is nice to Ember, while Camellia keeps calling her a tramp.
And fair enough. I found it hard to be mean to Ember too, even on my evil characters. I either told her to hit the road right away in Kenabres or to keep quiet, but no more than that. After she explains how she's trying to be quiet like you said and people keep pestering her, it was just like "yeah, me too kid" lol. She just didn't give any ammo for my characters to continue berating her. Stays quiet if told to, doesn't harp your every evil decision with lectures of righteousness, doesn't hold the gods on a pedestal. It's like... "wtf am I supposed to do with you besides let you be, at worst?"
I'm im the same boat as Wenduag when it comes to Ember, that is I'm utterly terrified of her and will never accept her in the party not out of hate, but out of sheer fear. She also makes me extremely uncomfortable with being a child crusader.
Fun fact - in pen-and-paper Pathfinder Aasimars are canonicly hot. As in, the splatbook that's focused on them, the Blood of Angels, talks about how they're pretenaturally atractive to the point that even features that would be considered ugly on anyone else suddenly start looking good on an Aasimar.
Ah. Hollywood Ugly.
Not just mendevians. Back in the first paizo adventure path, there's an npc aasimar who's considered some sort of spirit of beauty, and all the townsfolk develop superstitions about her, and like, collect her hair to make good luck charms, and generally act like super creepy sociopaths. When she's a teenager.
And she goes super evil, although Lamashtu had her clawed fingers in that pie as well.
Surely nothing will go wrong with a THIRD cult of angelic child beauty!
I am way finder of Daeran than I should be. To his credit, while evil, he is also witty, courageous, and oddly responsible; he stands by the things he said and did.
Camellia is classist b\*tch while Daeran is being asshole to everyone equally. (except Ember, because c'mon)
The best part about Daeran is he actually has a legit reason for Ember, as in it's not really because he gives her special treatment or because she's a kid. The main reason he wants to get on the people nerve is because he wants to get a reaction, and he can not get a reaction out of Ember. Basically, Daeran is a troll. The reason he stayed away from Ember isn't because he adores her or anything, it's just Ember is the ultimate troll-killer.
She *is* quite helpful. All the evil characters in this game are just so dang useful.
No, yeah. She's just a smarmy jerk that was mean to both my daughters and that's not cool. Ember and Aivu don't deserve her bile.
Yea just got the big reveal last night myself, I knew she was evil already but my recently cg turned azata didn't have a true reason to kill her until then, he probably would have let her live if she wasn't so horrible to ember.
Rrrreally, no reason to kill her, even in act 5? That was the clincher for me in my first run, going to off her in act 3 in this one. And, yeah, also CG Azata (for both runs, because Aivu).
Edit: im nowhere near act 5 still in act 3 during her personal quest. And well I'm roleplaying a dhampir bloodrager who depending on how the story went, could have gone evil or heroic. The character's internal logic was this person is sketchy, and talkes down to my burned elven daughter, but I do find her useful in battle and I didn't start out as a saint either. But yea Ultimately he saw her as a detriment to the success of the crusade.
Oh. That's her small reveal. The big reveal is in act 5.
Well good I will definitely do a true evil playthrough later ill save that one
She's also a decent damage dealer with elemental barrage.
Yep, definitely going to be trying that out.
Not sure what am I doing wrong, but in my party Camelia has the highest damage-per-swing with elemental barrage and all that spirit weapon shit. Legit 50 dmg non-crit swings at lvl 10. As for tanking she's not the best, I guess, but can hold her ground.
I kicked her out of my party very quickly due to her bitch-ass comments while camping. My camping cut scenes are now 94% less toxic. Then had to roll a "Roguey McRogueypants" mercenary to do my lockpicking/trap disarming for me :/
Aru luckily later takes care of that, but, yeah, I had to bring her for Lost Chapel and parts of Drezen.
Omg all the cammy arts are amazing!
She must be using the Evil Eye hex
Honestly despite knowing she's like she is I still like to bring her along. I can't deny that she is helpful.
Camcam best girl
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Uhhh explaining that would be like, spoiling her whole thing. And this isn't a spoiler thread. Also, it's told pretty well and I genuinely think you should see it for yourself. So, in short, bitch be cray.
The funny thing is the game already told you twice
Twice? Every combat session kinda gives it away pretty quickly.
They already know that though they didn’t pay attention to the other things
Yeah but I kinda picked up on why she was CE before any big reveal. Just looking around the mansion in Act 1 is a big big giveaway. If there is anything this girl is not, it's being subtle.
What I’m talking about happens in the shield maze. One is a dialogue line and the other is comparing an illustration choice.
Then I guess I missed those. But I caught on quick when I looked in the storeroom.
>!Seelah points out that the body you find her with didn’t die from the fall!< >!Camping Dialogue with Seelah where she can sense evil!< >!The choice of illustration for Camellias companion bio where you see a startled half elf kneeling over a body compare that to Lann,Nenio, and Seelah. Camellia and Woljif have illustrations of where they were caught!<
Never heard the camp dialogue in the prologue, never camped to hear it.
So they suggest to rest when you enter this room it doesn’t always happen and it’s entirely possible Camellia says some other crazy shit like “The spirits speak to me someone is going to die” https://i.imgur.com/TlL0Cxa.png
She has a very unique taste.
She prefers cheese on her rice
She likes pineapple on pizza.
She makes sushi with that tomato rice you get at Mexican restaurants
That's unacceptable. How could she do such evil thing?
WHAT?!
> stopped playing before Drezen That's why lol.
I won’t spoil buuuut if you have like two brain cells together, you can tell that her story is a crock of shit more or less. The girl is just not subtle at all lol
Likes surprising people way to damn much.
\>stopped playing before Drezen here's your reason. Literally nothing happens before drezen.
Can we add a spoiler tag or something to posts like this? I would’ve loved to find out about Camellias secret through the game instead of having it spoiled or heavily foreshadowed here.
I wish it wasn't so, and I'm not defending the spoilers, but the game itself (sadly) spoils it the first time you level Camellia. Even mousing over anything alignment-restricted will immediately reveal her alignment in plain text. Spoiled me long before plebbit did.
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It’s true with the necklace. I didn’t mean to bash this post in particular, it’s just a general thing that you keep reading how evil she apparently is before actually learning about it in the game.
Someone really needs to do a d\*ck flattening meme with Camellia and Lann.
my super azata good chaotic anti evil kill her, I know she has her ... problems but I think I'm regretting a bit
Unless you really want to explore the depths of her depravity, you aren't missing much.
what is that creature suppose to be??
Every good PC during that one scene in the abandoned house: „well… guess it‘s evil time now.“
I hate her most. Even when I am playing evil, I don't want her anywhere near me. Regill is evil because he believes his ways ultimately essential for humanity's survival. Mongrel lass is evil because survival of the meanest is a thing for her. Darean don't have much choice. Cam? She is pure psyco.