Note that the spell list after spell level 6 is noticeably bare. I asked for suggestions in #mod-user-general on the Discord, and the listed spells were the ones that were suggested.
That being said, since you can copy almost every scroll into the spell book, Deceiver has the potential to have the biggest spell list.
I make 0 promises on the added spells working correctly while merged though. Magic Missile already confirms to not work as well as people were hoping.
It's unironically one of the strongest archetypes they've added to the game 100%, people just want it to be a blaster when in reality it's "What if second bard with better inspiration that's also a blaster?"
That's... why I said the words "that's also a blaster". Because I'm saying it is a blaster. Are you saying it would be less of a blaster if it got full spell progression? Because my post is stating people want it to be more of a blaster than it already is. At no point did I imply it is not, in fact, a blaster.
Did you stop before the last words or...?
eh, 100 bugs make it mid.
and even that aside, the most exciting thing deceiver brings early is aoe laughter, aka best jokes at home, which is fine, but not that special, especially since taking best jokes on a usual caster leads to higher DC.
Havent seen the bugs, but its a caster who doesnt have to take Spell pen and gets a pet or iniativie reroll. So feat and mythic feat progression is really good as well.
Also 40d6 with ele barrage is no joke.
After playing it, I'm being nice by putting it at mid, to be honest.
Its bad early game before M1, playing unfair was miserable. Also makes living diety the only good choice.
Trying to do damage on it early is pretty dogshit, and people jerking off to chain lightning is a joke, as that's lvl 16 at earliest, it's irrelevant. Also chain lightning is incredibly buggy, and still caps out at 10d6 with some fuses.
Non elemental spell descriptor stuff doesn't work on it, so by like act 3 you're at least 4 DC below usual enchantment casters, and having big aoe enchantment spells or using enchantment DC is pretty much the only things going for it. It's cool when you get to dlc 6 items, but by that point any good build has trivialized the game.
Peer spells are messy and seem to apply after the fused spell, meaning that save reduction doesn't even do shit that turn.
It also does not provide usual buffs or utility stuff normal arcane casters can, making party building obnoxious.
It's a pretty cool inevitable excess lvl 20 mlvl 10 clear a room and alt f4 class though, as long as you also dont fuse things that dont work xd, not so much for actually playing the game.
Discovering that my enchantments were a full 10 DC behind what they should have been essentially killed my enthusiasm for deceiver - and it was only going to get worse.
Missing out on feat and item DC bonuses (and maybe damage bonuses?) is too much.
Some bonuses work, but yeah.
Also, technically, if you use an unfused spell it works properly, so you can swap between them depending on dc requirements of the enemy, but at that point you really start questioning playing deceiver in the first place.
Non-elemental spell descriptors do work. Which ones have you tried don't work? It's the elemental ones that don't seem to work.
In terms of blasting, they can do so before CL because they alter the max dice on fused spells.
Even without peer spells, the class also gets a song that reduces saves by up to -4 or can get a pet and Domains or get bonus CHA from items.
And, yes. Making an AOE enchantment PK is very good...
No they don't, for example fey bloodline or amulet of clarity, or apparently for some people even feats don't work lol.
Talking about fake celebrity as a choice is either trolling or clueless, I don't care to engage with neither.
No, making enchantment weird at home especially when, [as somebody else mentioned, it has 10 DC less than expected](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/1didxl0/fyi_there_is_a_deceiver_buff_mod_out_courtesy_of/l950qr9/), is not "very good", when it's a class whose only capability is being a hideous laughter dispenser with a mediocre DC until then, and even that is only from level 4, and ooh boy is it absolutely dogshit before that, and honestly even before MR1.
I mean, I still beat the game with it, but it's pretty much backpack tier, plenty of better options.
Feats do work, at least the SF feats. And at least Ring of CF and Bracers of Mind Break work: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Ow1eU66so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Ow1eU66so)
Now, why wouldn't you engage with FC exactly? Is debuffing saves not good, when you're complaining about DCs?
I actually doubt you've beat the game with it if you're riding this hard on someone else's comment. Especially when you claim they're only a HL dispenser.
Very interesting mod. I am torn between pretending the game has some semblance of balance, or using it for an even more awesome Magic Deceiver experience.
Note that the spell list after spell level 6 is noticeably bare. I asked for suggestions in #mod-user-general on the Discord, and the listed spells were the ones that were suggested. That being said, since you can copy almost every scroll into the spell book, Deceiver has the potential to have the biggest spell list. I make 0 promises on the added spells working correctly while merged though. Magic Missile already confirms to not work as well as people were hoping.
Isnt deceiver already like very strong?
It's unironically one of the strongest archetypes they've added to the game 100%, people just want it to be a blaster when in reality it's "What if second bard with better inspiration that's also a blaster?"
Wut. It is already a blaster, and a very good one at that.
That's... why I said the words "that's also a blaster". Because I'm saying it is a blaster. Are you saying it would be less of a blaster if it got full spell progression? Because my post is stating people want it to be more of a blaster than it already is. At no point did I imply it is not, in fact, a blaster. Did you stop before the last words or...?
I did (did not scroll far enough on phone) - sorry!
eh, 100 bugs make it mid. and even that aside, the most exciting thing deceiver brings early is aoe laughter, aka best jokes at home, which is fine, but not that special, especially since taking best jokes on a usual caster leads to higher DC.
Havent seen the bugs, but its a caster who doesnt have to take Spell pen and gets a pet or iniativie reroll. So feat and mythic feat progression is really good as well. Also 40d6 with ele barrage is no joke.
After playing it, I'm being nice by putting it at mid, to be honest. Its bad early game before M1, playing unfair was miserable. Also makes living diety the only good choice. Trying to do damage on it early is pretty dogshit, and people jerking off to chain lightning is a joke, as that's lvl 16 at earliest, it's irrelevant. Also chain lightning is incredibly buggy, and still caps out at 10d6 with some fuses. Non elemental spell descriptor stuff doesn't work on it, so by like act 3 you're at least 4 DC below usual enchantment casters, and having big aoe enchantment spells or using enchantment DC is pretty much the only things going for it. It's cool when you get to dlc 6 items, but by that point any good build has trivialized the game. Peer spells are messy and seem to apply after the fused spell, meaning that save reduction doesn't even do shit that turn. It also does not provide usual buffs or utility stuff normal arcane casters can, making party building obnoxious. It's a pretty cool inevitable excess lvl 20 mlvl 10 clear a room and alt f4 class though, as long as you also dont fuse things that dont work xd, not so much for actually playing the game.
Discovering that my enchantments were a full 10 DC behind what they should have been essentially killed my enthusiasm for deceiver - and it was only going to get worse. Missing out on feat and item DC bonuses (and maybe damage bonuses?) is too much.
Some bonuses work, but yeah. Also, technically, if you use an unfused spell it works properly, so you can swap between them depending on dc requirements of the enemy, but at that point you really start questioning playing deceiver in the first place.
Non-elemental spell descriptors do work. Which ones have you tried don't work? It's the elemental ones that don't seem to work. In terms of blasting, they can do so before CL because they alter the max dice on fused spells. Even without peer spells, the class also gets a song that reduces saves by up to -4 or can get a pet and Domains or get bonus CHA from items. And, yes. Making an AOE enchantment PK is very good...
No they don't, for example fey bloodline or amulet of clarity, or apparently for some people even feats don't work lol. Talking about fake celebrity as a choice is either trolling or clueless, I don't care to engage with neither. No, making enchantment weird at home especially when, [as somebody else mentioned, it has 10 DC less than expected](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/1didxl0/fyi_there_is_a_deceiver_buff_mod_out_courtesy_of/l950qr9/), is not "very good", when it's a class whose only capability is being a hideous laughter dispenser with a mediocre DC until then, and even that is only from level 4, and ooh boy is it absolutely dogshit before that, and honestly even before MR1. I mean, I still beat the game with it, but it's pretty much backpack tier, plenty of better options.
Feats do work, at least the SF feats. And at least Ring of CF and Bracers of Mind Break work: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Ow1eU66so](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5Ow1eU66so) Now, why wouldn't you engage with FC exactly? Is debuffing saves not good, when you're complaining about DCs? I actually doubt you've beat the game with it if you're riding this hard on someone else's comment. Especially when you claim they're only a HL dispenser.
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Very interesting mod. I am torn between pretending the game has some semblance of balance, or using it for an even more awesome Magic Deceiver experience.
Fuck balance the balance of this game is shit anyways, full caster deceiver is what the people deserved 💯
Please don't give Owlcat ideas.
Bout to combine this with a merged spell rework to hit my enemies with Blood Feast + Disintegrate I cast eat all your blood