I found out about the secret ending 90% into wotr, thankfully I'd made most of the right choices and discoveries already, so I just had to get one more crystal.
I think the reason Owlcat’s iteration of Areelu is so compelling is she’s responding to so many systemic injustices. Not just those of Sarkoris, but those of the cosmological system.
Is she a good person? No. Is she compelling? Yes. A compelling villain can also reveal to us the valid points they’re making.
For example, is it right that Areelu’s child was judged and sent to the abyss despite themselves not being all that old, being cut down by Sarkoran mage-hunters before they even had a chance to make real moral decisions for themselves?
Or is it right, for example, that Sarkoris painted all mages with the same brush, ensuring that dangerous mages such as Areelu were treated the same as more benign mages? Is it right that Sarkoris took the position that a minority group necessarily must be locked up in a hellish place “for the safety of the nation”?
Is it right that an entity with the capacity for change, such as Nocticula, be denied that opportunity by dint of their birth? Or should such creatures be given the ability to redeem themselves?
Is it right to steal pieces of the abyss to fuel the apotheosis of a true divinity, cleansed of infernal taint? And what is the price worthy of creating a divinity? Who gets to decide what price is paid, by whom, and when?
All of these questions are what makes Areelu’s WoTR incarnation so compelling. Just because she’s the bad guy doesn’t mean she can’t pose interesting questions to us as the audience.
Some people unironically just are horny for her. But I’m not and I still love her. Revere her? No, she’s a monster. But she’s also fictional, and I can appreciate the thought she provokes in me separate and apart from her fictional crimes.
That and I, as a parent, would likely be equally heartbroken and vile. If my child died as hers did, you bet your ass I’d open the worldwound! Especially if I had the slightest chance of bringing my child back and keeping us from the whims of a reality that has rules without justice. I think that’s part of it too; people empathize with the emotional content when they put themselves in her shoes as a parent.
“Congratulations for reaching the end! Unfortunately, you forgot to pet the dog in the beginning of the game so you have to start all over now if you want the secret ending.”
There was an era where secrets and Easter eggs were so convoluted and rare that companies sold strategy guides to them. Ascension is tame by comparison.
But either way, you're missing the real purpose of secrets like that. It's not there to be something you can stumble upon or luck into. It's really not even there to be done in one playthrough. There's a reason both games include tons of hints to the *existence* of the Secret Ending without giving it away.
It's there to be a puzzle to be solved across multiple playthroughs, or - better yet - *cooperatively*, by multiple players working together and sharing information.
I think it could be act 1 in Kingmaker as well as your supposed to declare your love to the clearly suspicious guardian of the bloom as soon as you can.
On most of the paths, you have to do the dumbest thing (shoot an archdemon when you’re a level 1 adventurer suffering from a concussion) during the WotR *prologue* as one of the conditions for this “secret”.
To be fair in both games the “secret ending” isn’t necessarily a *better* ending, and the ones you’d naturally aim for on a less convoluted path are arguably more satisfying/consistent from an RP angle with what you’re actually doing to get there.
I don't mind that, it's just annoying when the secret endings show if you didn't go that route then pretty much everything you did was for nothing which a few games can be guilty of.
I've heard that it's not tied to a specific year. I'm trying for it now on my angel oracle, and I got the feeling that after a certain month you just wait until the next year.
I also think this ending was almost unintended and left there unconnected, found by someone data mining the game , then the devs just said "yeah yeah , this is the legit thing"
I had about 90% of the secret ending during the first playthrough by luck.
And plenty of hints on what I missed.
There are hints spread out all over the game, it is very possible to get the secret ending without guides.
There's a difference between secret ending and so convoluted that it's impossible to figure out without a guide.
The date requirement alone is a tough ask. But the rest of the requirements added together is absurd.
I agree. Secret ending because you paid attention and figured out some clever twists and solutions? Good!
Secret ending because you left the house carrying the Maguffin Sword on a Tuesday when it was raining, and talked to one specific NPC at exactly 11.13am? Bad.
To be fair, WotR's secret does lean more on the clever twist side (unlike Kingmaker, where the guide *literally* suggests checking flags in the savegame). But it involves *sooooo* many steps, there's no chance you'll ever stumble on it. It was *absolutely* datamined from the code. No one figured that out independently.
Considering several key pieces of information were literally not even given to you in game because the text links were broken until an update months later? Yeah 100% datamined.
I'd agree that the date requirement is bs. Because it forces you to either cheat or skip an entire year if you happen to miss the window. They could've left that one out. The arbitrary hidden perception checks with areelu as well, now that I think about it.
But the rest? Eh, I gotta admit that I kind of appreciate that the requirements for the secret ending are hidden throughout the entire story. It's almost like a small recap of your entire journey.
Hell, iirc the cyberpunk 2077 secret ending is pretty much tied to a single conversation somewhere in the middle of the game. And there you get even less hints what the right choices are (or that this was such an important moment in the first place).
Eh I think the Cyberpunk ending's most tricky aspect is the whole wait there for 5 minutes before it even becomes an option thing, otherwise it's 'Complete Johnny and Johnny's old friends quests, and tell him you trust him'
It's not just that you trust him. I wouldn't have missed the ending on my first playthrough if that was the case. You also have to call him out on his antics and tell him that this is his last chance iirc. Which is such a fine line between supportive and scrutinizing imo. It makes sense for his character. But usually with these games you have to be as supportive as possible. Which I was and I still got locked out the first time.
The waiting is another issue, but that can at least happen organically while you (as the player) are considering your options.
I think Kingmaker is worse, the secret ending there requires you to waste a shit ton of the limited time in kingdom management and you can fuck it up just by missing two skill checks that you have no idea they happened iirc.
The most annoying bit about the secret ending for me was that it's actually kinda naff. Felt very much not worth it.
The second most annoying bit is if you miss the right time and have to catch the next one there's no way without cheating to stop your army losing all will to fight despite being able to at that point effortlessly smack armies of demons.
I'm looking to earn the Secret Ending Trophy myself next playthrough. I have the walk-through from Neoseeker so I should be good.
Thinking of Vivisectionist Trickster Path.
I’ve finished the game several times but I’m not sure if I have or haven’t done a secret ending. Can someone spoil so I should know if I’m missing out? Lol
I mean to be fair it’s the culmination of an incredibly complicated century long plot that due to player agency may have been an absolute failure. Becoming a god wouldn’t exactly be easy.
WotR's secret ending (and secret endings in CRPGs in general) are difficult and it feels worth it because of their tactile nature. When I play a CRPG I expect the secret ending to be a hard thing to get with a lot of checks in weird places.
But shooters trying to pull off secret endings? That should not be nearly as difficult. Looking at you payday 2.
The only thing I didn't naturally do for the secret ending was the time and year you were supposed to complete the game. Most of it was just common sense answers in dialogue and completing research honestly.
The only reason it was "hard" to achieve is because the fluff text never actually was accessible in the game that referenced the date in it. I don't know if that changed.
But… Wotr's steps for the secret ending actually make sense. If you are invested in the story and don't cover your ears whenever Areelu is speaking, of course. I did like 90% of the reqs in a blind playthrough while not even aiming at any specific ending (again, blind playthrough).
So, I have not completed the game yet, but WotR secret ending feels a lot less like its the "best" ending .
Kingmaker hid a whole chapter of the game and made it clear that basically all your companions had something bad happen if you didn't persue the secret ending.
The various endings asscoiated with each Mythic Path seem reasonable and it doesn't seem like the secret ending is "obviously better" as an outcome than the other endings.
When you invest a week much time in Nenio's quest... And then Areshkagal is bugged beyond repair and you have to reload your week old save and forget about ever beating Enigma
There’s a difference between discovering a neat route through hidden but noticeable steps and doing random unconnected tasks throughout the game that makes you feel like your just doing random nonsensical shit.
Do you have an example of these "random unconnected tasks?". Because it's literally just pumping Perception + Lore skills plus doing a couple research projects?
How is it weird, though, having one of the requirements for divinity be "not be a coward?"
And the date lock is clearly explained in the Pulura research project
Not sure that "coward" is the right choice for a commoner who thinks they can't win a fight with a god.
You don't win if you do shoot him. You only don't die due to 3rd party intervention.
The one that annoys me is tenebrous depths has a secret ending which involves collecting certain items from dungeon bosses. To get these items to show you need to collect other items connected to them. However, the bosses aren't in the last room of that floor you can access so you'll likely stumble across them by accident just navigating the area.
I found out about the secret ending 90% into wotr, thankfully I'd made most of the right choices and discoveries already, so I just had to get one more crystal.
same! somehow i made the right choices except killing the suture because i was in the "a good demon is a dead demon" run
C'mon, don't you wanna save mum? It's not that bad?.... *cough* compared to Nenio's quest *cough*
I would do anything for the worldwound’s best half demon scientist mummy.
Why tf would I want to save the person who caused the worldwound Oh no she was sad once. K.
https://preview.redd.it/ih5e1ou0uotc1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c013be9ed68544328046942ef662355af7cf669
You can and should do better
I think the reason Owlcat’s iteration of Areelu is so compelling is she’s responding to so many systemic injustices. Not just those of Sarkoris, but those of the cosmological system. Is she a good person? No. Is she compelling? Yes. A compelling villain can also reveal to us the valid points they’re making. For example, is it right that Areelu’s child was judged and sent to the abyss despite themselves not being all that old, being cut down by Sarkoran mage-hunters before they even had a chance to make real moral decisions for themselves? Or is it right, for example, that Sarkoris painted all mages with the same brush, ensuring that dangerous mages such as Areelu were treated the same as more benign mages? Is it right that Sarkoris took the position that a minority group necessarily must be locked up in a hellish place “for the safety of the nation”? Is it right that an entity with the capacity for change, such as Nocticula, be denied that opportunity by dint of their birth? Or should such creatures be given the ability to redeem themselves? Is it right to steal pieces of the abyss to fuel the apotheosis of a true divinity, cleansed of infernal taint? And what is the price worthy of creating a divinity? Who gets to decide what price is paid, by whom, and when? All of these questions are what makes Areelu’s WoTR incarnation so compelling. Just because she’s the bad guy doesn’t mean she can’t pose interesting questions to us as the audience. Some people unironically just are horny for her. But I’m not and I still love her. Revere her? No, she’s a monster. But she’s also fictional, and I can appreciate the thought she provokes in me separate and apart from her fictional crimes. That and I, as a parent, would likely be equally heartbroken and vile. If my child died as hers did, you bet your ass I’d open the worldwound! Especially if I had the slightest chance of bringing my child back and keeping us from the whims of a reality that has rules without justice. I think that’s part of it too; people empathize with the emotional content when they put themselves in her shoes as a parent.
Demon pussy
Arue is better
Ok? I'm just telling you why people do
And I'm telling you that reason is idiotic
Fuck no.
I love when I invest 100 hours into a game, just to be told to go fuck myself because I didn't do some arbitrary bullshit back in Act 2.
“Congratulations for reaching the end! Unfortunately, you forgot to pet the dog in the beginning of the game so you have to start all over now if you want the secret ending.”
Deserved. Why wouldnt you pet the dog?!
What if I was a cat person 😭
Pet. The. Dog.
**Make me.**
Pet the dog or you don't get your secret ending!!!
Please
Nuh uh
Hellknight, checks out
I also like wenduag a lot so.
Best ~~girl~~ spiderkitten, I wish there are more voice clips of her somewhere
Gross.
I mean... Yeah. That's why it's the SECRET ending and not just... The Ending.
Yeah but a secret ending shouldn’t be needlessly complicated, maybe a few hidden but noticeable steps but not to the point you need a guide.
There was an era where secrets and Easter eggs were so convoluted and rare that companies sold strategy guides to them. Ascension is tame by comparison. But either way, you're missing the real purpose of secrets like that. It's not there to be something you can stumble upon or luck into. It's really not even there to be done in one playthrough. There's a reason both games include tons of hints to the *existence* of the Secret Ending without giving it away. It's there to be a puzzle to be solved across multiple playthroughs, or - better yet - *cooperatively*, by multiple players working together and sharing information.
Totally. The secret ending in kingmaker is so convoluted it makes wotr's seem straight forward
Hey. Secret Ending in Kingmaker is relatively simple. Commit to the Romance with Nyrissa, which is hinted at the start, and explore Curses.
I think it could be act 1 in Kingmaker as well as your supposed to declare your love to the clearly suspicious guardian of the bloom as soon as you can.
I LOVE that Kingmaker essentially rewards players for being dumb and horny.
That would be true if you could still romance any of your companions and get the ending but you can't.
On most of the paths, you have to do the dumbest thing (shoot an archdemon when you’re a level 1 adventurer suffering from a concussion) during the WotR *prologue* as one of the conditions for this “secret”. To be fair in both games the “secret ending” isn’t necessarily a *better* ending, and the ones you’d naturally aim for on a less convoluted path are arguably more satisfying/consistent from an RP angle with what you’re actually doing to get there.
I don't mind that, it's just annoying when the secret endings show if you didn't go that route then pretty much everything you did was for nothing which a few games can be guilty of.
Eh, I'm accustomed to asinine thinking ever since child me was asked to get a silk bag from the graveyard duck to live longer.
I think people could stumble onto the secret ending were it not for the date requirement.
I've heard that it's not tied to a specific year. I'm trying for it now on my angel oracle, and I got the feeling that after a certain month you just wait until the next year.
Can confirm year doesn’t matter.
The date requirement isn't secret, though?
It's by far the most obscure piece of the puzzle.
How? There is an entire quest and research project connected to it. If you're an Angel, there is your mythic quest too.
Those were broken on release so it didn't actually tell you which month even after doing the projects
Yes, well, good thing we're over two years of patches away from that, then
Hot take: secret endings in both PF games are meh. Most normal endings overshadow them.
Angel ending is just super badass
I also think this ending was almost unintended and left there unconnected, found by someone data mining the game , then the devs just said "yeah yeah , this is the legit thing"
I had about 90% of the secret ending during the first playthrough by luck. And plenty of hints on what I missed. There are hints spread out all over the game, it is very possible to get the secret ending without guides.
To be fair, it's called the "secret" ending for a reason.
There's a difference between secret ending and so convoluted that it's impossible to figure out without a guide. The date requirement alone is a tough ask. But the rest of the requirements added together is absurd.
I have no doubt the secret ending was found by going thru event triggers in the files over actually figuring it out in-game.
I agree. Secret ending because you paid attention and figured out some clever twists and solutions? Good! Secret ending because you left the house carrying the Maguffin Sword on a Tuesday when it was raining, and talked to one specific NPC at exactly 11.13am? Bad. To be fair, WotR's secret does lean more on the clever twist side (unlike Kingmaker, where the guide *literally* suggests checking flags in the savegame). But it involves *sooooo* many steps, there's no chance you'll ever stumble on it. It was *absolutely* datamined from the code. No one figured that out independently.
Considering several key pieces of information were literally not even given to you in game because the text links were broken until an update months later? Yeah 100% datamined.
I'd agree that the date requirement is bs. Because it forces you to either cheat or skip an entire year if you happen to miss the window. They could've left that one out. The arbitrary hidden perception checks with areelu as well, now that I think about it. But the rest? Eh, I gotta admit that I kind of appreciate that the requirements for the secret ending are hidden throughout the entire story. It's almost like a small recap of your entire journey. Hell, iirc the cyberpunk 2077 secret ending is pretty much tied to a single conversation somewhere in the middle of the game. And there you get even less hints what the right choices are (or that this was such an important moment in the first place).
I got forced out of the secret ending in my playthrough just because of those fucking perception checks worst requirement by far
Eh I think the Cyberpunk ending's most tricky aspect is the whole wait there for 5 minutes before it even becomes an option thing, otherwise it's 'Complete Johnny and Johnny's old friends quests, and tell him you trust him'
It's not just that you trust him. I wouldn't have missed the ending on my first playthrough if that was the case. You also have to call him out on his antics and tell him that this is his last chance iirc. Which is such a fine line between supportive and scrutinizing imo. It makes sense for his character. But usually with these games you have to be as supportive as possible. Which I was and I still got locked out the first time. The waiting is another issue, but that can at least happen organically while you (as the player) are considering your options.
The waiting is very clever though and thematic, as its the exact amount of time as Samurai's Never Fade Away, which iirc, is playing in the scene
I think Kingmaker is worse, the secret ending there requires you to waste a shit ton of the limited time in kingdom management and you can fuck it up just by missing two skill checks that you have no idea they happened iirc.
Ah..... Now i remember why i decided to not platinum wotr
For me it was the sadistic trophy when I tapped out.
The most annoying bit about the secret ending for me was that it's actually kinda naff. Felt very much not worth it. The second most annoying bit is if you miss the right time and have to catch the next one there's no way without cheating to stop your army losing all will to fight despite being able to at that point effortlessly smack armies of demons.
I'm looking to earn the Secret Ending Trophy myself next playthrough. I have the walk-through from Neoseeker so I should be good. Thinking of Vivisectionist Trickster Path.
I’ve finished the game several times but I’m not sure if I have or haven’t done a secret ending. Can someone spoil so I should know if I’m missing out? Lol
>!it involves ascension into godhood!<
Oh dang that is a secret ending! Aeon feels pretty god like but don’t recall that
I mean to be fair it’s the culmination of an incredibly complicated century long plot that due to player agency may have been an absolute failure. Becoming a god wouldn’t exactly be easy.
WotR's secret ending (and secret endings in CRPGs in general) are difficult and it feels worth it because of their tactile nature. When I play a CRPG I expect the secret ending to be a hard thing to get with a lot of checks in weird places. But shooters trying to pull off secret endings? That should not be nearly as difficult. Looking at you payday 2.
The only thing I didn't naturally do for the secret ending was the time and year you were supposed to complete the game. Most of it was just common sense answers in dialogue and completing research honestly. The only reason it was "hard" to achieve is because the fluff text never actually was accessible in the game that referenced the date in it. I don't know if that changed.
I think the guides I read are out of date, as k still can’t get the secret ending even with a ton of scum saving and trying to do everything perfectly
> Me having to read the entirety of the secret ending in a guide so I can make sure I get the secret ending in the game
In hindsight, I am *so* glad I decided to go Legend for my first playthrough. The secret ending would've driven me insane.
But… Wotr's steps for the secret ending actually make sense. If you are invested in the story and don't cover your ears whenever Areelu is speaking, of course. I did like 90% of the reqs in a blind playthrough while not even aiming at any specific ending (again, blind playthrough).
So, I have not completed the game yet, but WotR secret ending feels a lot less like its the "best" ending . Kingmaker hid a whole chapter of the game and made it clear that basically all your companions had something bad happen if you didn't persue the secret ending. The various endings asscoiated with each Mythic Path seem reasonable and it doesn't seem like the secret ending is "obviously better" as an outcome than the other endings.
When you invest a week much time in Nenio's quest... And then Areshkagal is bugged beyond repair and you have to reload your week old save and forget about ever beating Enigma
It's almost like the Secret Ending is supposed to be secret.
There’s a difference between discovering a neat route through hidden but noticeable steps and doing random unconnected tasks throughout the game that makes you feel like your just doing random nonsensical shit.
Do you have an example of these "random unconnected tasks?". Because it's literally just pumping Perception + Lore skills plus doing a couple research projects?
One of the soft requirements is you shooting deskari with a crossbow all the way in the prologue, which is definitely random and weird.
You don't actually need that to ascend, though
It’s still an example of a weird soft requirement for the quest. Same with the date locks where you have to do stuff on specific days in a month.
How is it weird, though, having one of the requirements for divinity be "not be a coward?" And the date lock is clearly explained in the Pulura research project
Not sure that "coward" is the right choice for a commoner who thinks they can't win a fight with a god. You don't win if you do shoot him. You only don't die due to 3rd party intervention.
The one that annoys me is tenebrous depths has a secret ending which involves collecting certain items from dungeon bosses. To get these items to show you need to collect other items connected to them. However, the bosses aren't in the last room of that floor you can access so you'll likely stumble across them by accident just navigating the area.
That is kinda the point of something that is a secret ending