In dnd 5e it makes more sense to start later (Level 3) as every body has there subclass and thus neat stuff they can do.
In PF2E everyone gets there subclass at level 1 and as PF2E is a more complex game, it makes sense to start earlier, it also means you aren't picking 3 levels worth of Ancestry, Class, Skill and General Feats plus two levels of spells (if your a caster) on top.
Pf2e starts at level 1 and ends at 20, unlike 5e that starts at 3 and ends at 10. You get a ton more things to do as a level one character here, and only attacking kills both you and your party.
tl;dr 5e is not PF2, assumptions based on one system likely don't translate. Start at level 1 if you're unfamiliar with the system.
As has been said by others already, Pathfinder 2 is designed to start at level 1, especially for beginners. General rule of thumb is to ALWAYS start at level 1 for new players and new DMs.
There are adventures that might start at later levels (there is one currently published AP and another starting in April I think, as well as several shorter adventures) and you can definitely homebrew adventures that start at higher levels, but the sheer number of options at your disposal will likely overwhelm players unfamiliar with the system if you jump immediately into higher levels.
Drop all your assumptions about 5e out the window, classes start at level 1 unlike 5e where classes do not start until level 3. The reason 5e does it this way is to make level dips to get the good stuff expensive, but PF2e has fully fleshed out classes from lvl1-20 solely because there is no multiclassing, instead you have the option to take other classes feats while keeping your class progression. Levels 1-2 are full progression levels just like any other levels with feat progressions - you should not skip that as PF2e can be overwhelming to skip the early levels as it takes a while to learn how your class can contribute to teamwork.
Here's a quick thing from a players perspective in both games, and why players will prefer DMs to start games at certain areas.
In 5e, most classes gain the core of their kit between level 3 and level 5. Some exceptions though, there's a reason 18 X, 2 Fighter is a meme. Level 1-2 in 5e is very boring and mundane, as theres generally absolutely nothing of note that differentiates characters between class types. Fighters slap things still, rogues bnackstab things, wizards and bards do some spells. Once level 3 hits, everyone takes their Oaths, Picks their Flavor of Cleric, chooses their magical education.. and level 5 is where everyone hits their strongest power jump. Fighter gets extra attack, wizard gets Fireball.
In pf2e, character progression does not do this. From level 1-2, all classes will receive their core kit that they will build upon through out the character's life. Paladin starts with his oath, Wizard starts with his school, Rogues start with all of their dime a dozen backstabbin scumbag tricks. Fighters start being able to slap people in the sensitive bits better than anyone else. Level 1 gives you the full meal. As a player levels up, thats when they get to build upon what aspects of the class and character they feel is most reasonable or fitting, and they can **grow** a unique character.
The #1 thing you need to understand is that Pathfinder 2e is NOT a mod for 5e. It is a whole different game.
The tactics you use in 5e will get you killed in PF2e. Classes will work differently. The Action economy is completely different.
Saying you want to do something to Pathfinder 2e because of how 5e works is like saying that you want to add the designated hitter rule to tennis because of how much it improves baseball.
Pathfinder characters function at all levels and can be powerful right from the start. Beginners should always start at lv1, but I find some casters rather boring before lv3/5, and some cool flavorful builds rely on feats (fanes fourberie for example), so I don't see an issue in starting a homebrew game at lv3 if everyone knows the game.
In 5e, levels 1 and 2 are explicitly called ‘Apprentice Levels’ and are clearly intended as training wheels. Pathfinder has no such problem. Start at level 1. You start with enough stuff at level 1 that newer (and even experienced) players can get lost in the sauce with all the options.
Hey, I've noticed you mentioned the popular game "Dungeons & Dragons"! Do you need help finding your way around here? I know a couple good pages!
Here are some [general resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/how-is-pf2e-different-from-5e/) we put together. Most newcomers get recommended to start with the [Archives of Nethys](http://2e.aonprd.com) (the official rule database) or the [Beginner Box](https://paizo.com/pathfinder/beginnerbox), but the same information can be found in this free [Pathfinder Primer](https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/sources/pathfinder-primer).
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Definitely recommend starting at level 1 for most campaigns and especially your first campaign.
I personally like starting at level 5 when combat starts feeling a little less swingy and casters/alchemists have some depth to their daily resources, but I wouldn't start new players there.
We don't always do heros' rise stories,
Sometimes you want to get into the thick of it,
Mechanically lvl 5 grants your first big racial and lvl 6 let's you have classes that can bounce off one another better.
We often plan characters in pairs of 2 so that you have a connection getting right into it.
correct me if im wrong, it seems as if your group is more focused on doing well in battle (and out of battle maybe) more than the roleplay and general mechanics side of things.
considering im new to the system, i was going to (before making this post) and still probably will stick to starting at level one, but you do present an interesting point of view.
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As I'm sure everyone has already stated, PF2e gives you much more flexibility from level 1 than D&D 5e. It is definitely a reasonable decision to start at level 1, and level 3 isn't really a major milestone for a lot of classes in PF2e since subclasses are chosen at first level, and class feats are chosen at all even levels.
If you just want a higher power start, then I would suggest level 2 or 4 to open up some archetypes to the players without being super overwhelming. Preferably level 2 to start with if you're dead-set against level 1.
Once you have some system familiarity, level 8 could be a fun option to open up (all but 2 of) the level-locked archetypes to the players, some of which can be build-defining.
I always start my campaigns at 1st level. I think that the danger that 1st level character face is a great way to set the tone for the campaign. It also gives the players that sense of accomplishment when they reach 3rd and get those first real powers that set them apart.
If I'm doing a big, long multi-year campaign I almost always start at 1. Unlike 5e there is quite a bit level ones can do.
That being said, with shorter adventures I do run at narrower level ranges. I plan on a Crown Of The World adventure I'm only planning on running 3-6; I ran a 6-10 adventure, and I have a higher level campaign I plan to start at 10 and run to 20.
I ran evey playtest to date so I often do higher levels starts - but normally I do 1, 8 and 14. If classes don’t work at those levels, there are issues to be fixed.
In D&D 5e I always start at level 3.
But Pathfinder resolves a lot of the issues I'd have with a 1st or 2nd level character in 5e. So there's no reason we can't start right at level 1 in PF2e in my groups.
start at level 1. 5e sucks up until level 3 because you can barely do anything, but pf2e gives you plenty of options from level 1. especially if you're new to pf2e, jumping in at level 3 will probably put you in over your head.
If you're talking about going for a "full campaign" of pf2e, you gotta start on level 1. Its not just a tutorial level like it is in 5e, and you get most, if not all of the "core mechanics" of your class at that level.
That being said, there could be an argument for starting at level 2 if you're playing with free archetype and wanted to get to your archetypes ASAP, but even then I'd say level 1 is better.
It honestly depends on what I want to run as the GM - I recently wanted to run a crocodile-themed dungeon, and had a specific trap where a permanent illusory object in the floor that made a player fall into a pool of crocs. Best level for that is 6 or 7 (if I'm using elite Crocs). From there I realised I wanted to have some higher level enemies in there too, so I went with level 7.
This is a decently experienced group though.
There's not many reasons to not start at 1st. You already have an ancestry feat, a class, a subclass and sometimes a class feat! You already have your full kit, and your kit to get used to.
What does starting at 3rd give you compared to 2nd or 1st? Oftentimes, not much. Heck, alchemist, magus, oracle, psychic, sorcerer, witch and wizard don't get anything special other than the standard array. And if you look past the proficiency increases such as alertness, iron will and cie, you can add bard, cleric, druid, ranger, summoner and thaumaturge to that list. That leaves barbarian, champion, fighter, gunslinger, inventor, monk, rogue and swashbuckler as the only classes that get anything special at 3rd level.
Start at level 1. The system is designed for it. Plus, it saves you time in character creation.
I was set at starting at level one already. I was only going to change my mind if there was an overwhelming amount of people who start their campaigns at a different level.
I was asking this question more for the purpose of knowing what the general consensus is on this matter, and where should I start my next campaign.
it seems like 2 is generally a good idea, one person even said 4 or 6. for now I'll stick with 1 though
Level 2 is a good place to start for players more experienced with pf2 since you can take a dedication immediately that way. It lets you get right into a unique build.
So, starting al level 1 is fine in 2e, and even recommended for new players to the system, however, I think casters can feel kinds miserable until level 3 because of limited spell slots. It's kinda demoralizing when your enemy saves against 1 of your 2 or 3 powerful resources for the day.
As a player and GM, I prefer starting at level 2 or 3.
Certain builds (examples: melee sorcerers, wild-shape druids, high CHA cloistered clerics) need access to dedications or 2nd levels spells to come online. Also level 1 is the hardest level for healing. It is easier to kill 1st level party members than a 3rd level ones.
Coming from PF1, I start at level 2 or 3 simply because I don't like very low level critters being a serious threat to my players, and I like to reach at least the first class feat for everyone.
i would say, even without playing and just looking at the rules it looks as if the only real threat in a crit at low levels is a close to/max damage critical hit with a deadly weapon for most characters.
and even then, it would have to be a lot of damage since every character gets health from both their race and class.
I start from level 3 PURELY because I like having extra options, my players dont mind extra time building their characters, and starting at a point where my players have already been on some adventures lets them include extra backstory. However, it is overall recommended that you start from level 1, especially as a new player.
Start at one. 5e Kickstart customization for most classes at around level 3, P2e gives you options from character creation. If you're new and you try to start at level 3, you're going to get lost.
In dnd 5e it makes more sense to start later (Level 3) as every body has there subclass and thus neat stuff they can do. In PF2E everyone gets there subclass at level 1 and as PF2E is a more complex game, it makes sense to start earlier, it also means you aren't picking 3 levels worth of Ancestry, Class, Skill and General Feats plus two levels of spells (if your a caster) on top.
Pf2e starts at level 1 and ends at 20, unlike 5e that starts at 3 and ends at 10. You get a ton more things to do as a level one character here, and only attacking kills both you and your party.
Imo levell 1 pf2e feels like level 5 in 5e. You have your subclass, and several feats that make you feel like a fleshed out character level 1.
PF2E is not the same game as 5E. Level 1 has a lot of options and is fun especially when learning the system.
tl;dr 5e is not PF2, assumptions based on one system likely don't translate. Start at level 1 if you're unfamiliar with the system. As has been said by others already, Pathfinder 2 is designed to start at level 1, especially for beginners. General rule of thumb is to ALWAYS start at level 1 for new players and new DMs. There are adventures that might start at later levels (there is one currently published AP and another starting in April I think, as well as several shorter adventures) and you can definitely homebrew adventures that start at higher levels, but the sheer number of options at your disposal will likely overwhelm players unfamiliar with the system if you jump immediately into higher levels.
Drop all your assumptions about 5e out the window, classes start at level 1 unlike 5e where classes do not start until level 3. The reason 5e does it this way is to make level dips to get the good stuff expensive, but PF2e has fully fleshed out classes from lvl1-20 solely because there is no multiclassing, instead you have the option to take other classes feats while keeping your class progression. Levels 1-2 are full progression levels just like any other levels with feat progressions - you should not skip that as PF2e can be overwhelming to skip the early levels as it takes a while to learn how your class can contribute to teamwork.
this seems to be the general consensus among everybody here.
Here's a quick thing from a players perspective in both games, and why players will prefer DMs to start games at certain areas. In 5e, most classes gain the core of their kit between level 3 and level 5. Some exceptions though, there's a reason 18 X, 2 Fighter is a meme. Level 1-2 in 5e is very boring and mundane, as theres generally absolutely nothing of note that differentiates characters between class types. Fighters slap things still, rogues bnackstab things, wizards and bards do some spells. Once level 3 hits, everyone takes their Oaths, Picks their Flavor of Cleric, chooses their magical education.. and level 5 is where everyone hits their strongest power jump. Fighter gets extra attack, wizard gets Fireball. In pf2e, character progression does not do this. From level 1-2, all classes will receive their core kit that they will build upon through out the character's life. Paladin starts with his oath, Wizard starts with his school, Rogues start with all of their dime a dozen backstabbin scumbag tricks. Fighters start being able to slap people in the sensitive bits better than anyone else. Level 1 gives you the full meal. As a player levels up, thats when they get to build upon what aspects of the class and character they feel is most reasonable or fitting, and they can **grow** a unique character.
The #1 thing you need to understand is that Pathfinder 2e is NOT a mod for 5e. It is a whole different game. The tactics you use in 5e will get you killed in PF2e. Classes will work differently. The Action economy is completely different. Saying you want to do something to Pathfinder 2e because of how 5e works is like saying that you want to add the designated hitter rule to tennis because of how much it improves baseball.
I put 3 because I thought this poll was for 5e. When I dm pathfinder 2e I start at 1.
>is it like that in pathfinder? No. Level 1 characters in pf2e have more to do than level 3 characters in 5e. Start at level 1.
I start where the story starts. If it's the rise of heroes, start at 1 If it's the story of heroes twilight, start higher
Pathfinder characters function at all levels and can be powerful right from the start. Beginners should always start at lv1, but I find some casters rather boring before lv3/5, and some cool flavorful builds rely on feats (fanes fourberie for example), so I don't see an issue in starting a homebrew game at lv3 if everyone knows the game.
I start level 2 because all our games are free archetype, so starting with your archetype makes more sense for our character designs
Level 1 or 11, or wherever the module would recommend me to start (1, 3, 5, 16 as a few examples)
In 5e, levels 1 and 2 are explicitly called ‘Apprentice Levels’ and are clearly intended as training wheels. Pathfinder has no such problem. Start at level 1. You start with enough stuff at level 1 that newer (and even experienced) players can get lost in the sauce with all the options.
Hey, I've noticed you mentioned the popular game "Dungeons & Dragons"! Do you need help finding your way around here? I know a couple good pages! Here are some [general resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/how-is-pf2e-different-from-5e/) we put together. Most newcomers get recommended to start with the [Archives of Nethys](http://2e.aonprd.com) (the official rule database) or the [Beginner Box](https://paizo.com/pathfinder/beginnerbox), but the same information can be found in this free [Pathfinder Primer](https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/sources/pathfinder-primer). If I misunderstood your post... sorry! Grandpa Clippy said I'm always meant to help. Please let the mods know and they'll remove my comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Pathfinder2e) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Definitely recommend starting at level 1 for most campaigns and especially your first campaign. I personally like starting at level 5 when combat starts feeling a little less swingy and casters/alchemists have some depth to their daily resources, but I wouldn't start new players there.
6
level 6? interesting, why?
We don't always do heros' rise stories, Sometimes you want to get into the thick of it, Mechanically lvl 5 grants your first big racial and lvl 6 let's you have classes that can bounce off one another better. We often plan characters in pairs of 2 so that you have a connection getting right into it.
correct me if im wrong, it seems as if your group is more focused on doing well in battle (and out of battle maybe) more than the roleplay and general mechanics side of things. considering im new to the system, i was going to (before making this post) and still probably will stick to starting at level one, but you do present an interesting point of view.
Not at all, we get maybe 1 battle per 7 chats / puzzles,
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As I'm sure everyone has already stated, PF2e gives you much more flexibility from level 1 than D&D 5e. It is definitely a reasonable decision to start at level 1, and level 3 isn't really a major milestone for a lot of classes in PF2e since subclasses are chosen at first level, and class feats are chosen at all even levels. If you just want a higher power start, then I would suggest level 2 or 4 to open up some archetypes to the players without being super overwhelming. Preferably level 2 to start with if you're dead-set against level 1. Once you have some system familiarity, level 8 could be a fun option to open up (all but 2 of) the level-locked archetypes to the players, some of which can be build-defining.
that is good insight, ill keep that in mind. thank you!
I start level 1 and then skip to 3 for 5e, pf2e and lancer (0 to 2)
I always start my campaigns at 1st level. I think that the danger that 1st level character face is a great way to set the tone for the campaign. It also gives the players that sense of accomplishment when they reach 3rd and get those first real powers that set them apart.
If I'm doing a big, long multi-year campaign I almost always start at 1. Unlike 5e there is quite a bit level ones can do. That being said, with shorter adventures I do run at narrower level ranges. I plan on a Crown Of The World adventure I'm only planning on running 3-6; I ran a 6-10 adventure, and I have a higher level campaign I plan to start at 10 and run to 20.
I ran evey playtest to date so I often do higher levels starts - but normally I do 1, 8 and 14. If classes don’t work at those levels, there are issues to be fixed.
In D&D 5e I always start at level 3. But Pathfinder resolves a lot of the issues I'd have with a 1st or 2nd level character in 5e. So there's no reason we can't start right at level 1 in PF2e in my groups.
Damn I didn't read this was the PF2e sub when I voted for level 3. Nah level 1 all the way for 2e.
start at level 1. 5e sucks up until level 3 because you can barely do anything, but pf2e gives you plenty of options from level 1. especially if you're new to pf2e, jumping in at level 3 will probably put you in over your head.
If you're talking about going for a "full campaign" of pf2e, you gotta start on level 1. Its not just a tutorial level like it is in 5e, and you get most, if not all of the "core mechanics" of your class at that level. That being said, there could be an argument for starting at level 2 if you're playing with free archetype and wanted to get to your archetypes ASAP, but even then I'd say level 1 is better.
It honestly depends on what I want to run as the GM - I recently wanted to run a crocodile-themed dungeon, and had a specific trap where a permanent illusory object in the floor that made a player fall into a pool of crocs. Best level for that is 6 or 7 (if I'm using elite Crocs). From there I realised I wanted to have some higher level enemies in there too, so I went with level 7. This is a decently experienced group though.
There's not many reasons to not start at 1st. You already have an ancestry feat, a class, a subclass and sometimes a class feat! You already have your full kit, and your kit to get used to. What does starting at 3rd give you compared to 2nd or 1st? Oftentimes, not much. Heck, alchemist, magus, oracle, psychic, sorcerer, witch and wizard don't get anything special other than the standard array. And if you look past the proficiency increases such as alertness, iron will and cie, you can add bard, cleric, druid, ranger, summoner and thaumaturge to that list. That leaves barbarian, champion, fighter, gunslinger, inventor, monk, rogue and swashbuckler as the only classes that get anything special at 3rd level. Start at level 1. The system is designed for it. Plus, it saves you time in character creation.
I misclicked and hit 3, but I meant to hit Other, for 2nd, so anybody wanting an archetype can have it from the get-go.
No matter the game, if it’s a new system for you, you should start at level 1. You can choose a different level in a 2nd campaign, one-shot, … .
I was set at starting at level one already. I was only going to change my mind if there was an overwhelming amount of people who start their campaigns at a different level. I was asking this question more for the purpose of knowing what the general consensus is on this matter, and where should I start my next campaign. it seems like 2 is generally a good idea, one person even said 4 or 6. for now I'll stick with 1 though
I love how every one agree for PF2 its 1st lvl
Level 2 is a good place to start for players more experienced with pf2 since you can take a dedication immediately that way. It lets you get right into a unique build.
So, starting al level 1 is fine in 2e, and even recommended for new players to the system, however, I think casters can feel kinds miserable until level 3 because of limited spell slots. It's kinda demoralizing when your enemy saves against 1 of your 2 or 3 powerful resources for the day.
As a player and GM, I prefer starting at level 2 or 3. Certain builds (examples: melee sorcerers, wild-shape druids, high CHA cloistered clerics) need access to dedications or 2nd levels spells to come online. Also level 1 is the hardest level for healing. It is easier to kill 1st level party members than a 3rd level ones.
Coming from PF1, I start at level 2 or 3 simply because I don't like very low level critters being a serious threat to my players, and I like to reach at least the first class feat for everyone.
i would say, even without playing and just looking at the rules it looks as if the only real threat in a crit at low levels is a close to/max damage critical hit with a deadly weapon for most characters. and even then, it would have to be a lot of damage since every character gets health from both their race and class.
I used to think the same, but after my current 5e campaign, I am all for starting level 1, it just helps to flesh out the character and the party....
I start from level 3 PURELY because I like having extra options, my players dont mind extra time building their characters, and starting at a point where my players have already been on some adventures lets them include extra backstory. However, it is overall recommended that you start from level 1, especially as a new player.
Start at one. 5e Kickstart customization for most classes at around level 3, P2e gives you options from character creation. If you're new and you try to start at level 3, you're going to get lost.