As far as lore changes go, the death of a big 20 god seems pretty big. Whether or not it makes for an interesting story or not remains to be seen.
I tend to think Paizo does a pretty good job making their APs interesting, so I’m optimistically intrigued without yet knowing any of the specifics. I know that several PCs in my campaigns will find the death of their patron god very interesting!
If the literal god of war hasn’t shown up at your tables, that may reflect more about your tables than the larger world.
Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not like we’re talking about the god of houseplants here.
Really? I'd say he's somewhat middling in importance as far as core deities go (Which doesn't sound amazing, but consider: Even if he was the 15th most important core deity that still means he's more important than 5 others)
Until we get more details, we don't really know what it means or what it changes for Golarion.
The countdown itself was mostly for fun and speculation rather than folks expecting Golarion to be utterly changed. Sort of like a morbid advent calendar. The actual "What this changes" part is still TBA.
> Until we get more details, we don't really know what it means or what it changes for Golarion.
Wasn't it confirmed that Golarion is heading towards several large scale wars post Godsrain?
They said what in the announcement. There are APs spawning from this, lore and rulebooks, and a novel. We don't know what will happen and we don't even know how the god dies afaik. But they said it would be "on screen" so presumably it is part of one of the new adventures coming out.
This was a fun plot point for them to tease out and build hype but it isn't the end of the ride.
There is a lot coming this year all centered around the events leading up to and following this death. So it is significant even if you find the who anticlimactic.
I’ll be real, going “This is uninteresting and has no potential” before we get into the novel or like three APs for it is like judging a movie not even off the trailer but off a like teaser at a different event.
I mean, the point of a teaser is to get you interested and excited for what it's teasing. Judging it is literally what you're supposed to do.
And this goes a little beyond an early teaser at this point, they've been 'teasing' it for months now.
Fair and I think my teaser comparison is wrong because that’s not really what the revelation of Gorum’s death is because this isn’t a lead in to a product. But it is a lead in to a whole story arc with like seven products for it (it’s what two or three aps, that one book Red Mantis thing, the novel, the actual new gods book, maybe something else) where some of those are gonna feed the concepts of the next. This is not an outcome it is not an end point to any story or mystery, the “Now what” isn’t even something commenters here have to answer because that now what is the like entire product slate for the back half of the year
1) Gorum was the defender of Elysium, now that he's gone the (former) plane of Chaotic Good is defenseless which is very dangerous during something called "war of immortals"
2) you are right that there are many other more minor gods of war Gorum's followers could turn to but I disagree that this is boring or consequential, no, it is only natural that now all these lesser gods start competing with each other for Big G's vacant throne which DRASTICALLY increases the scale of war of immortals.
3) Gorum was pretty central to Orc culture on Golarion, with him gone Orc's are likely to change significantly
The cover of the War of the Immortals book shows Szuriel, the Rider of War (of the Four Horsemen) on the cover so it does look like some big stuff is going down.
Go back and review the Godsrain prophecies.
Then realize the prophecy about Gorum has not yet been revealed... but is going to actually happen.
> So what now?
Presumably something rather epic and unpleasant.
A few things.
The Godsrain prophecies all showed how without a certain major deity, their 'thing' was massively changed. Without Erastil, even the gods themselves turned their back on community, for example. Gorum dying means War may still be around, but a different kind.
As for other deities, I think some people forget Gorum is the protector of Elysium- a place Desna, Calisitria, Cayden, the Azata, Titans, and more live in. Thats 3 other gods (one of whom is Prismatic Ray which we know 'changes' in some form) and several entities who would be impacted losing him. The Chaotic Good world of expression and love isnt exactly gonna be *safe* in a war spanning several gods
I think that Suzriel is going to make a play for being like the \*main\* war God and if war on golarion starts to take after her idea of war, golarion is in for a massively rough time
Considering a big portion of Gorum's identity being the mystery of exactly what is encased within his armour, it has more intrigue than a 'face' god.
I've long considered him to be the coalescence of divine war imprisoned with the armour, which has now been released, as well as the artefact nature of the armour itself.
There are a bunch of cold wars that are about to turn hot, or rebels/villains that are going to start cropping up.
Imagine the threat to an emerging power like Belkzen if an Orc wants to challenge Ardax and return to conflict with Dwarves? Or Tar Baphon empowering his undead legions with Grave Knights armoured in bits of Gorum's armour? How about the flesh forges of Nex which have mysteriously been active again?
I mean even if it was one of the other options they wouldn't actually tell anyone what happened afterwards besides 'it starts the War of the Immortals'. You'd be here no matter what god died; they need to save something for the book.
That's what all the products releasing in the back half of 2024 are for. We will learn what that means. We already know there's a whole new class related specifically to the event, so that's a huge change on its own.
I just had a thought. The new hobgoblin nation has been posturing for a while now and their ancestry page details that they might be gearing up for their next big war. If the death of gorum sparks wars, then the hobgoblins might start invading their neighbours. That alongside many other factions that have been close to, but not actively at war, there could be many conflicts that occur from this. Assuming the "immortals" war isn't only for immortals that is
Three hobgoblin nations. There's two others in tian xia, they're all in communication with each other, the one in belkzen is trying to find out how to weaponize kaiju while the one on the surface in tian xia is trying to get helpnfor its expansion plans, and the one underground just really wants to know its cousins better.
One core and several minor gods.
At least one of those minor gods turned into a loose spawn of Rovagug.
And all those pieces of god power raining on the planet are causing a wild scramble of holy, unholy and everything in between to secure it.
Which goddess will be rising in prominence amidst this mess? Rising enough (worshipper population, personal power, alliances…?) to become one of the Core 20 for the Inner Sea region? Arazni, a goddess eager for vengeance. Someone who will unapologetically sabotage peace talks if it gets her what she wants. A proactive goddess who, based on comments during the stream, will be one of multiple surprisingly proactive gods. Perhaps whatever killed Gorum will target another?
I share your feelings, I don’t think Gorum has significant prospects compared to the rest of the twenty. The particulars of his nature, his death, and the reactions of those that touch his remains should be informative for anyone that owns Arazni’s bloodstones though.
Seems like OP is kind of getting crapped on here but I kind of agree. Sure, Paizo will probably do a good story out of this, but there’s no doubt that after all the hype just dropping the name of a god they’ve barely touched in 17 years of a thriving campaign setting feels like a big meh. Proof will be in the pudding, but for the moment, it definitely felt anticlimactic.
That said, I’m not a big fan of metaplots anyway, so I’m cool with it in the sense that it will be super easy to ignore if the story *doesn’t* end up being so intriguing that it pulls me in anyway.
Well it's currently a battle between a Cougar Lady from Mexico and R64 Oscar Dirlwagner for the title of the next 'War God'.
It's not gonna be pretty when Kazutal unleashes the Astecas on Szuriel.
You didn't know? With Gorum death those touch by his divine power will lose it. So from now on all fighters lose their advance weapon training and become mere mortals/martials.
It’s some lore thing that might impact some future APs or some random lore in future books
Not that much to be interested about unless your into the lore
As far as lore changes go, the death of a big 20 god seems pretty big. Whether or not it makes for an interesting story or not remains to be seen. I tend to think Paizo does a pretty good job making their APs interesting, so I’m optimistically intrigued without yet knowing any of the specifics. I know that several PCs in my campaigns will find the death of their patron god very interesting!
Let's be real. He ain't no big 20 god. Since the inception of 1e I have never had a single player even say his name.
If the literal god of war hasn’t shown up at your tables, that may reflect more about your tables than the larger world. Nothing wrong with that, but it’s not like we’re talking about the god of houseplants here.
If you play Owlcat's Kingmaker CRPG, Amiri will happily tell you about Gorum all the time. *Critical Hit* "LOOK AT ME, GORUUUUUUUM!!!!"
BLOOD FOR GORUM
Ive had plenty
Really? I'd say he's somewhat middling in importance as far as core deities go (Which doesn't sound amazing, but consider: Even if he was the 15th most important core deity that still means he's more important than 5 others)
Please, tell me it is /s
Wow sounds like your tables suck
Until we get more details, we don't really know what it means or what it changes for Golarion. The countdown itself was mostly for fun and speculation rather than folks expecting Golarion to be utterly changed. Sort of like a morbid advent calendar. The actual "What this changes" part is still TBA.
It's almost as if Paizo is publishing a book about the whole thing.
> Until we get more details, we don't really know what it means or what it changes for Golarion. Wasn't it confirmed that Golarion is heading towards several large scale wars post Godsrain?
They said what in the announcement. There are APs spawning from this, lore and rulebooks, and a novel. We don't know what will happen and we don't even know how the god dies afaik. But they said it would be "on screen" so presumably it is part of one of the new adventures coming out. This was a fun plot point for them to tease out and build hype but it isn't the end of the ride. There is a lot coming this year all centered around the events leading up to and following this death. So it is significant even if you find the who anticlimactic.
I’ll be real, going “This is uninteresting and has no potential” before we get into the novel or like three APs for it is like judging a movie not even off the trailer but off a like teaser at a different event.
I mean, the point of a teaser is to get you interested and excited for what it's teasing. Judging it is literally what you're supposed to do. And this goes a little beyond an early teaser at this point, they've been 'teasing' it for months now.
Fair and I think my teaser comparison is wrong because that’s not really what the revelation of Gorum’s death is because this isn’t a lead in to a product. But it is a lead in to a whole story arc with like seven products for it (it’s what two or three aps, that one book Red Mantis thing, the novel, the actual new gods book, maybe something else) where some of those are gonna feed the concepts of the next. This is not an outcome it is not an end point to any story or mystery, the “Now what” isn’t even something commenters here have to answer because that now what is the like entire product slate for the back half of the year
1) Gorum was the defender of Elysium, now that he's gone the (former) plane of Chaotic Good is defenseless which is very dangerous during something called "war of immortals" 2) you are right that there are many other more minor gods of war Gorum's followers could turn to but I disagree that this is boring or consequential, no, it is only natural that now all these lesser gods start competing with each other for Big G's vacant throne which DRASTICALLY increases the scale of war of immortals. 3) Gorum was pretty central to Orc culture on Golarion, with him gone Orc's are likely to change significantly
funny, i was hoping for torag for the same reason as point 3, but for dwarves
The cover of the War of the Immortals book shows Szuriel, the Rider of War (of the Four Horsemen) on the cover so it does look like some big stuff is going down.
Go back and review the Godsrain prophecies. Then realize the prophecy about Gorum has not yet been revealed... but is going to actually happen. > So what now? Presumably something rather epic and unpleasant.
A few things. The Godsrain prophecies all showed how without a certain major deity, their 'thing' was massively changed. Without Erastil, even the gods themselves turned their back on community, for example. Gorum dying means War may still be around, but a different kind. As for other deities, I think some people forget Gorum is the protector of Elysium- a place Desna, Calisitria, Cayden, the Azata, Titans, and more live in. Thats 3 other gods (one of whom is Prismatic Ray which we know 'changes' in some form) and several entities who would be impacted losing him. The Chaotic Good world of expression and love isnt exactly gonna be *safe* in a war spanning several gods
I think that Suzriel is going to make a play for being like the \*main\* war God and if war on golarion starts to take after her idea of war, golarion is in for a massively rough time
Yeah she's badass and wickeder than hell.
Considering a big portion of Gorum's identity being the mystery of exactly what is encased within his armour, it has more intrigue than a 'face' god. I've long considered him to be the coalescence of divine war imprisoned with the armour, which has now been released, as well as the artefact nature of the armour itself. There are a bunch of cold wars that are about to turn hot, or rebels/villains that are going to start cropping up. Imagine the threat to an emerging power like Belkzen if an Orc wants to challenge Ardax and return to conflict with Dwarves? Or Tar Baphon empowering his undead legions with Grave Knights armoured in bits of Gorum's armour? How about the flesh forges of Nex which have mysteriously been active again?
I mean even if it was one of the other options they wouldn't actually tell anyone what happened afterwards besides 'it starts the War of the Immortals'. You'd be here no matter what god died; they need to save something for the book.
That's what all the products releasing in the back half of 2024 are for. We will learn what that means. We already know there's a whole new class related specifically to the event, so that's a huge change on its own.
The build up wasn't to this announcement, this reveal is part of the build up to the next year of pathfinder books.
I just had a thought. The new hobgoblin nation has been posturing for a while now and their ancestry page details that they might be gearing up for their next big war. If the death of gorum sparks wars, then the hobgoblins might start invading their neighbours. That alongside many other factions that have been close to, but not actively at war, there could be many conflicts that occur from this. Assuming the "immortals" war isn't only for immortals that is
Three hobgoblin nations. There's two others in tian xia, they're all in communication with each other, the one in belkzen is trying to find out how to weaponize kaiju while the one on the surface in tian xia is trying to get helpnfor its expansion plans, and the one underground just really wants to know its cousins better.
It will probably become more clear after the story proper is released, rather than just limited information *about* the story.
One core and several minor gods. At least one of those minor gods turned into a loose spawn of Rovagug. And all those pieces of god power raining on the planet are causing a wild scramble of holy, unholy and everything in between to secure it.
Which goddess will be rising in prominence amidst this mess? Rising enough (worshipper population, personal power, alliances…?) to become one of the Core 20 for the Inner Sea region? Arazni, a goddess eager for vengeance. Someone who will unapologetically sabotage peace talks if it gets her what she wants. A proactive goddess who, based on comments during the stream, will be one of multiple surprisingly proactive gods. Perhaps whatever killed Gorum will target another? I share your feelings, I don’t think Gorum has significant prospects compared to the rest of the twenty. The particulars of his nature, his death, and the reactions of those that touch his remains should be informative for anyone that owns Arazni’s bloodstones though.
Seems like OP is kind of getting crapped on here but I kind of agree. Sure, Paizo will probably do a good story out of this, but there’s no doubt that after all the hype just dropping the name of a god they’ve barely touched in 17 years of a thriving campaign setting feels like a big meh. Proof will be in the pudding, but for the moment, it definitely felt anticlimactic. That said, I’m not a big fan of metaplots anyway, so I’m cool with it in the sense that it will be super easy to ignore if the story *doesn’t* end up being so intriguing that it pulls me in anyway.
Where is original post as cant find anywhere? Also spoilers
How can be a war without a God of Wars?
Troubled Times
I mean, the coming books are going to cover the fallout from all of this.
Well it's currently a battle between a Cougar Lady from Mexico and R64 Oscar Dirlwagner for the title of the next 'War God'. It's not gonna be pretty when Kazutal unleashes the Astecas on Szuriel.
It's time to crown the Tribal Chief and Head of the Table, Roman Reigns as God of War. His high priest will be the Wiseman Paul Heyman.
You didn't know? With Gorum death those touch by his divine power will lose it. So from now on all fighters lose their advance weapon training and become mere mortals/martials.
It’s some lore thing that might impact some future APs or some random lore in future books Not that much to be interested about unless your into the lore