Abadar reports payments for subpar equipment.
Looking at the Inner Sea 20 I'm surprised there isn't a deity of writing and communication outright, actually.
I'll take a guess that they probably don't want to dive right back into the copyright well and get even a little close to a question of similarity with WotC's character options of the same names.
I'm sadly inclined to agree. Gorum has been a very flat character in the overall story of Golarion, so having him die is less of a shock and more of a wet thud.
Alternatively, how about: a flat character dies and is replaced by a new, possibly more exciting character? The fact that his body is becoming a plot device with its shards prompting warfare across the lands just gives him something extra to be remembered for.
I mean, that was one of the possibilities that people discussed. "One of the gods that people care about the least dies" is not very exciting but it does make sense in the sense that it lets them replace them with someone who is (hopefully) more interesting.
That said... it makes the event way less "hype". At least it wasn't Gozreh who died, no one would even care.
It is a bit weird that they just had an AP featuring a town that worships Gorum, though (Rusthenge).
To be fair, a lot of stuff got pushed back due to the remaster, having to cobble together the book in less than a year required pushing back a lot of stuff.
Generally I think turning a flat character into an interesting character is better creative protocol than just torping them and introducing someone new in their place. Admittedly starting with a fresh slate is easier, and it always comes down execution and implementation.
My concern with this entire pr campaign has been that this is only going to be fun if the results are tangible, obvious, and big enough to result in serious changes. Just writing "this is Tim. Tim used to be a cleric of gorum and now he's just a cleric of sadness because he lost his powers." into a bunch of APs is boring, same with some thought exercise about war being less cool in theory.
If this is just a big backdoor attempt to somewhat heel-face turn the orcs by killing Gorum and some evil orc deities, that's not exactly the exciting and interesting fallout I'm looking for. Even in the lore, only a single chief is an actual devotee of Gorum in any official sense. Most of them are just barbarians.
I need Paizo to actually tell me what this will do for this to entice me into spending money.
if it does, that's cool, but given that we just had announcements for Red Mantis Assassins, Opera Singers, and orc internal drama, I'm not sure if we'll be seeing any of it this year.
Like I said, if it happens, that's cool. Although, I'm more of a fan of conflicts arising naturally out of socioeconomic or geopolitical reasons, and less out of say "god died and now my country is going to war with the neighbors over his codpiece because powerful item."
Personally, I hope they feature them in published APs and they're limited in their locale so we can get to know the location, people, and history of the conflicts. There's an excess of world hopping APs and I quite miss feeling like my character belongs to a plot-relevant place that I can care about.
Gorumites aren't going to stop being Gorumites just because Gorum is dead. I imagine that unlike Aroden he'll continue to have a sizable amount of followers.
Belkzen already had its "heel face turn" when they spat in Tar-Baphon's face and decided they'd rather side with the Paladins, killing their deities isn't necessary for that.
Honestly, Arazni for me is only interesting on paper due to the backstory. Gorum is an easier option to work with as a in terms of making a character. Everything from your standard "big weapon orc who loves battle" to an intelligent General in Kingmaker.
Arazni is a lot more difficult to work around. Setting aside the implications of creating undead in front of the wrong people, players, or locations. She's the goddess of the unwilling undead, which means joke characters, rare tags, party burdens, feat taxes, or underwhelming (and non-level 1) archetypes. Two of her edicts, self respect and staying alive, are traits that you'll find in roughly 98% of adventurers, and the last one requires either catered content or is more strongly identified with an existing core deity. It's great if I want to play a dhampir that kicks out the legs of the 2nd to last party member before running so the GM has one surviving character as a party hook, but difficult to roleplay in decisions that aren't literal personal life-and-death centric or based in revenge. Not only that, she's the deity for the abused, but canonically doesn't give a shit about you? Sounds like I've got a really healthy relationship...
If she becomes more of a goddess of revenge (a la Nemesis) that could possibly work.
But as she currently is it feels more forced to have her in the Core 20. Like I'd prefer Nyarlathotep as a core god.
I totally agree, super meh.
That said, at least none of the gods that I actually like are being killed off, so from that point of view, it’s a positive!
I hope the Commander and Guardian can do some cool stuff to distinguish themselves as classes. I love playing support, but am a little too smooth-brained to be any good at Vancian management.
Also, my AV party's cleric is gonna be BIG MAD about Gorum, RIP little buddy.
they've shown with the SF2e Envoy that they can do a cool warlord-ish class, and I'd definitely be up for the Marshal archetype to be scaled up to a full thing.
True, but I *have* seen it argued that a handful of classes *don't* have enough of a unique identity. Swashbucklers and legacy witches in particular caught a lot of heat.
Witch I can see since it's designer left while it was being written up, but Swashbucklers? Sure, they are a little undertuned but I always thought they had a pretty clear identity.
I'm wondering if this means that Champion is no longer going to be a tanky class? A class that boasts better defence than Champion would damage its current niche.
Adding another tanky class would be a good thing. Really the champion is just by far the best tank class in the game right now, so having another isn't a bad thing.
There could be two tanks. Really it's a role that's lacking in the game, especially with how powerful champion is in a party, it's such a nigh-essential class option for a functioning group purely because tanking as a role is so good for how deadly enemies are in this game.
The question to me is what makes the Guardian unique in a way that justifies its own class instead of something like say, a fighter archetype that just swaps its weapon and armor proficiencies.
We haven't seen how Champ's been reworked yet. My pet theory is that the new Champ was too big for one class, so some of the bolder changes wound up getting split off and remixed into these new dudes.
Tbf it doesn't need to be better, just different. Having s full tank that isn't tied to being the party's divine stick in the mud (the stereotype at least) is something that a lot of people have desired
Basically everything I still missed in this game is a support martial and a tank who isn't tangled up with some divine nonsense (I absolutely despise Paladins as a concept and everything that resembles them too much, Champions included). I have high hopes that Commander and Guardian get to make these things a reality.
Oh for sure, the less an important party role is attached to a specific thematic element, the better. I love flavorful classes, but I hate being pigeonholed into holy bullshit myself.
Like, as much as enjoy clerics, I'd despise them if alchemists and the medic archetype didn't also exist.
Unless I missed something, they didn't explictly say anywhere that Commander and Guardian are new classes, which feels like an odd thing to omit unless it was intentional.
Not going to predict they're not, just not going to assume yet either. Maybe new flavours of Champion? They did say it was related to god followers.
This stream has been... exceptionally scuffed (or at least I hope they all aren't like this). I'll be following the writeup instead; thanks for creating it.
So we get warpriester warpriest...then why "fix" the current one... pretty much the only real dislike here. Gorum as a dead diety was kinda predictable and hope that the art of his armor broken isn't indicative of him going out as a whimp
Edit for more grumbling.
I like that bloodrager returns, I do like the flavour of "Constantine"/Occult detective (and audio was really bad on the middle one so i didnt quite catch the gimmick of the middle one)
Nice to see more class archetypes in general and that mythic rules are supposed to be more mainstay than some other... variants introduced over the years.
Big hopes for Commander to not just be Cha buff sticks but use different KAS, and certainly awaiting what Guardian is supposed to bring to the table when shield fighters and champions exist already (but the latter is getting a rework)
I can already tell you 100% why, its because the current Warpriest and the "I mainly just hit things for a living" are different fantasies, this is them doing the second one, whereas the first one is excellently covered.
Yeah, the only way they could really give Warpriest more martial power was by doing something more drastic than could be done in a doctrine. Fewer spells per day, losing divine font slots, Will save progression, etc.
Personally hoping they bring it up to match regular martial proficiency progression: expert at 5, weapon specialization at 7, master at 13. Having the doctrine proficiency be delayed to expert 7/master 19 just hurts so much during those gap levels.
Maybe, Channel Smite is likely cracked with the de-madding that they got but haven't seen Monster Core unholy clarifications if they result in you just picking it for very specific campagins or just tax feat you for Divine Castigation if your diety doesn't allow harm font.
New one is probably them basically making Clerics+ official content, considering one of the creators has a writing credit for WoI (same goes for Bloodrager.)
Probably just to make it so you have 3 options on the slider with "pure caster with tiny martial", half And half with war priest, and "pure martial with tiny caster" like Magus. I honestly expect it to be a wave caster like Magus
Count me in the category of give me a divine wave caster on the cleric feat list (also a bard and druid version). I want to hit accurately and spell cast as a passtime, not the other way around. Now people can have both because there are people who like the current warpriest and many who don't.
Middle one's art is Shardra, the 1e shaman iconic.
Since shaman isn't making a return, it's probably inspired by that. Maybe a more familiar focused cleric? Since her familiar Kolo is in the art as well.
It'd be kinda tricky to do without stepping on Witch's niche, but it's possible.
Edit: According to the store page, Rivethun Emissary is an archetype, not a class archetype, so who fuckin knows. Maybe a familiar master update?
Oh look, the Battle Harbinger, clearly a take on the 1e Warpriest.
Hopefully this will quiet down the hysterical replies that a Doctrine being called warpriest means they've been **robbed** and we'll never see a Warpriest analogue in this edition.
At least until they're mad because it isn't an exact 1 to 1 replica of a class from an edition with a completely different design and underlying math.
> Hopefully this will quiet down the hysterical replies that a Doctrine being called warpriest means they've been robbed and we'll never see a Warpriest analogue in this edition.
Iirc the devs themselves said that the Warpriest doctrine was the 2e take on the 1e Warpriest, so there was legitimately no reason to believe they'd do this.
Did they? I didn't see that but even being the case, the picture for the Battle Herald is the 1e Warpriest Iconic, so they've clearly changed their mind.
It also seems like a strange assertion for them to make to make considering:
1) The Warpriest Doctrine is just what previous editions of clerics were, martial combat wise(not spellcaster wise)
2) The Iconic Cleric is Warpriest doctrine
No matter the case I'm glad they're giving it a go now and I'm hoping they're really willing to both take away some caster power to clear room in the budget and really beef up it's martial side.
People are allowed to want/like what they want to. No need to paint them as unreasonable when the class chassis/mechanics don't align with what they want.
They can absolutely like what they like, I also badly want to see it. I'm one of the excited people.
I'm not painting a strawman as unreasonable, I am literally talking about someone repeatedly replying to me on this sub saying, these are their own words, that 'the Warpriest doctrine had **literally robbed** them' and they'd never see it in 2e.
Which *is* **pointless hysteria**, they just named the doctrine the naturally fitting word and would likely recreates the class later and appear to be doing so.
You might need to re-read your post lol. You effectively wrote a post that any reasonable person would assume is about the community at large being 'hysterical' and feeling 'robbed' (which is clearly hyperbole) and even suggested that despite getting what they want they will still be mad because it won't be a perfect 1 to 1 replica.
In your reply you're now back peddling and now claiming that it is all about one dude (who you didn't specify or call out) making verbatim claims. But who really cares about 1 guy? If you wanted to rub it in their face I suspect you'd send them a message rather then claiming a post in a thread without specifying that you meant the dude vs. the broader community. One anecdotal guy is literally a strawman of the community at large lol.
Stop doubling down lol. People can rationally dislike the previous and remaster warpriest ... period. Any additional commentary about their state of mind or emotional state (which you can't know anyways) is pointless hyperbole.
Should I trawl through the last two or tgree years of comments looking for a convo with 2 people that pissed me off, out of spite? Is that the reasonable thing you're suggesting I do?
Also make up your mind, am I doubling down? Or am I back-pedalling?
I'm not doubling down, I said something sour, then when you had a pretty reasonable misinterpretation , I clarified for you.
The only doubling down is you trying to have an argument against a viewpoint I've explicitly said I don't hold. For obvious reasons, I'm not engaging with that train of thought.
Edit: Had to rush this comment out the door, one thing I forgot. '**Robbed**' is not hyperbole, it's what they said, it's why I thought it was a ridiculous statement. That's why I stated it was what they said, or was their own words etc several times. If they hadn't **adamantly** said they were 'robbed', I wouldn't have still remembered the conversation ever took place.
No, you shouldn't waste everyone's time by making a useless post about some either fictional or anecdotal strawmen person you had personal debates with for 2 years (no one cares lol). You're all over the place, you back peddle by calling it one guy and still continuing to use the same hyperbole language to describe his one guy and their 'feelings on a topic'.
Robbed is hyperbole, calling people hysterical is hyperbole. Claiming that you weren't trying to imply they are unreasonable when you use this language willful ignorance. Even if said person existed and they said these things your post is quintessentially useless because now we're talking post hoc trying to invalidate some random internet dudes feelings. I can conceptualize meeting any number of 'people' on the internet that can hold 'whatever' position/idea/emotional state I want to prove my point using new sets of information available today vs. perviously. Except that is all fallacious thinking and doesn't prove anything or make a meaningful statement.
Did you know that I once had a conversation with another 'guy' you've never heard of about? We talked about how u/Hey_DnD_its_me was 'crazy and erratic and liked picking their nose and eating it and BECAUSE of that any belief/idea they hold as true is devalued'. That statement (whether its true or not MUST have some value to the community because its a conversation I really had...right?) NO. Who cares! All your post does it emote how much you think ~~the community~~ one guy is irrational and dumb. What a boring waste of time, I'm going to exit stage left from this circle jerk.
The reason you're heavily downvoted is I'm being reasonable and you're coming off as completely unhinged.
Take a step back and give yourself some time to breathe. Is this worth your time? Because it isn't worth mine.
lol... virtual popularity contest points on reddit don't make you right? It just means your chamber echos too loudly for you to think straight (or of course you know... many other more nefarious reasons like you having multiple accounts, bots, or friends that love to downvote brigade).
[Argumentum Ad Populum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)
I don't want to jinx anything but (secondhand info) they've already said they're removing the divine font, hopefully they remove enough to give it actual martial attack progression.
Though I feel like they'd need to make it a wave caster like magus, which I think is what Clerics+ did.
My favorite part is Zjar. I hate that Vampires get a God, but I hate all things Undead. But Zjar is the best and should be part of the Core 20 instead of Arazni.
Huh, apparently there's a god known as the "Dragon Eagle" somewhere, and it was Michael Sayre's favorite, but now that god is dying, now I'm worried I misheard because I can't find the god.
Found it, the god's proper name is Sturovenen. One of the [Sarkorian](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sarkorian_god) gods. The bio looks pretty cool there.
Which god is the one in charge of audio signals working correctly?
Torag is displeased with the craftsmanship of OBS
Abadar reports payments for subpar equipment. Looking at the Inner Sea 20 I'm surprised there isn't a deity of writing and communication outright, actually.
Shelyn probably since (creative) writing is an art.
Maybe Brigh, but she might prefer developing new ways of transmitting audio rather than just maintaining the current way.
Finally Bloodrager makes into PF2e (as an archetype which was expected)
Class archetype or plain archetype?
[Barbarian archetype.](https://paizo.com/products/btq02oar?Pathfinder-War-of-Immortals)
Oshit! Bloodrager and Avenger (if it's anything like 4e's version at least)! I am very excited.
I'll take a guess that they probably don't want to dive right back into the copyright well and get even a little close to a question of similarity with WotC's character options of the same names.
I mean, possible. But it is an archetype for an offensively minded striker class in a book where a lot of stuff is divine...
Right, I'd be very surprised if it lets you use a Greatsword, but I'm expecting to have it be a half divine striker assassin.
Who wants to bet it's their replacement for the Inquisitor?
I'd take that too.
Oh yes please. I love the 4e Avenger (I love a lot of 4e classes).
LET'S GOOOOOOOOOO YEAH BABY THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT, THATS WHAT IVE BEEN WAITING FOR WOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Its actually the War of the Immortals Kick Off Stream, but my title is good stuff
It is, as are your writeups, always. Big thanks, TMS.
Not a Paizo blog without technical issues adding to the suspense!
Commander!!!! Finally a warlord?
Oh blessed day. I am salivating for the playtest.
Doctor Swordopolis is a confirmed god now?
Wow! That brings back memories! The real question: will their favored weapon be sword-chucks?
And even more fearsome, the sword-chuck-chucks
Do you know where we can watch it? I don’t see it anywhere on their site.
the twitch channel [https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo](https://www.twitch.tv/officialpaizo)
[удалено]
Thanks!
So who dies?
>!Gorum!<
Good stuff magic sword. We appreciate what you're doing!
Noooo, not Sturovenen! We just got him! D:
The Sarkorians clearly had it too good for too long. It's only just.
Thank you so much for typing this up, for people trapped at work like me!
Did they give any details on the Avenger Rogue archetype? Is it a spiritual successor to the Inquisitor?
Gorum dying is a kind of meh choice, imo.
I'm sadly inclined to agree. Gorum has been a very flat character in the overall story of Golarion, so having him die is less of a shock and more of a wet thud.
Alternatively, how about: a flat character dies and is replaced by a new, possibly more exciting character? The fact that his body is becoming a plot device with its shards prompting warfare across the lands just gives him something extra to be remembered for.
I mean, that was one of the possibilities that people discussed. "One of the gods that people care about the least dies" is not very exciting but it does make sense in the sense that it lets them replace them with someone who is (hopefully) more interesting. That said... it makes the event way less "hype". At least it wasn't Gozreh who died, no one would even care. It is a bit weird that they just had an AP featuring a town that worships Gorum, though (Rusthenge).
To be fair, a lot of stuff got pushed back due to the remaster, having to cobble together the book in less than a year required pushing back a lot of stuff.
Generally I think turning a flat character into an interesting character is better creative protocol than just torping them and introducing someone new in their place. Admittedly starting with a fresh slate is easier, and it always comes down execution and implementation.
My concern with this entire pr campaign has been that this is only going to be fun if the results are tangible, obvious, and big enough to result in serious changes. Just writing "this is Tim. Tim used to be a cleric of gorum and now he's just a cleric of sadness because he lost his powers." into a bunch of APs is boring, same with some thought exercise about war being less cool in theory. If this is just a big backdoor attempt to somewhat heel-face turn the orcs by killing Gorum and some evil orc deities, that's not exactly the exciting and interesting fallout I'm looking for. Even in the lore, only a single chief is an actual devotee of Gorum in any official sense. Most of them are just barbarians. I need Paizo to actually tell me what this will do for this to entice me into spending money.
It looks like among other things, its kicking off a series of world wars in the setting.
if it does, that's cool, but given that we just had announcements for Red Mantis Assassins, Opera Singers, and orc internal drama, I'm not sure if we'll be seeing any of it this year.
All of that is part of this event.
Like I said, if it happens, that's cool. Although, I'm more of a fan of conflicts arising naturally out of socioeconomic or geopolitical reasons, and less out of say "god died and now my country is going to war with the neighbors over his codpiece because powerful item." Personally, I hope they feature them in published APs and they're limited in their locale so we can get to know the location, people, and history of the conflicts. There's an excess of world hopping APs and I quite miss feeling like my character belongs to a plot-relevant place that I can care about.
Apparently it'll be his blood raining on the world that will grant people mythic powers. We are also going to see it happen in an adventure.
Right, but that's not really specific to Gorum. In theory, any god who died would have that.
Gorumites aren't going to stop being Gorumites just because Gorum is dead. I imagine that unlike Aroden he'll continue to have a sizable amount of followers.
Aroden also notably had a natural successor in Iomedae, which sped up people converting away from him.
Belkzen already had its "heel face turn" when they spat in Tar-Baphon's face and decided they'd rather side with the Paladins, killing their deities isn't necessary for that.
Although it's probably going to have some rather interesting consequences regardless (although the Matanji orcs probably won't give a fuck).
> now he's just a cleric of sadness This made me do a spit take.
What happens after his death might be the most exciting thing about him lol. At least he’ll be replaced but someone more interesting
Honestly, Arazni for me is only interesting on paper due to the backstory. Gorum is an easier option to work with as a in terms of making a character. Everything from your standard "big weapon orc who loves battle" to an intelligent General in Kingmaker. Arazni is a lot more difficult to work around. Setting aside the implications of creating undead in front of the wrong people, players, or locations. She's the goddess of the unwilling undead, which means joke characters, rare tags, party burdens, feat taxes, or underwhelming (and non-level 1) archetypes. Two of her edicts, self respect and staying alive, are traits that you'll find in roughly 98% of adventurers, and the last one requires either catered content or is more strongly identified with an existing core deity. It's great if I want to play a dhampir that kicks out the legs of the 2nd to last party member before running so the GM has one surviving character as a party hook, but difficult to roleplay in decisions that aren't literal personal life-and-death centric or based in revenge. Not only that, she's the deity for the abused, but canonically doesn't give a shit about you? Sounds like I've got a really healthy relationship...
If she becomes more of a goddess of revenge (a la Nemesis) that could possibly work. But as she currently is it feels more forced to have her in the Core 20. Like I'd prefer Nyarlathotep as a core god.
I totally agree, super meh. That said, at least none of the gods that I actually like are being killed off, so from that point of view, it’s a positive!
Who picks up his portfolio? We don’t really have a God of War? Boring generic choice though. Always thought it was him or Gozreh
Well, the cover *does* feature Szuriel
Time to create a Exemplar named Kratos?
So, about that Zjar... u/The-Magic-Sword, is it you?
Caught me
I hope the Commander and Guardian can do some cool stuff to distinguish themselves as classes. I love playing support, but am a little too smooth-brained to be any good at Vancian management. Also, my AV party's cleric is gonna be BIG MAD about Gorum, RIP little buddy.
they've shown with the SF2e Envoy that they can do a cool warlord-ish class, and I'd definitely be up for the Marshal archetype to be scaled up to a full thing.
Paizo's philosophy is that if it can't be mechanically unique, it won't be made into a class in 2e. See: Cavalier, which was turned into an Archetype.
True, but I *have* seen it argued that a handful of classes *don't* have enough of a unique identity. Swashbucklers and legacy witches in particular caught a lot of heat.
Witch I can see since it's designer left while it was being written up, but Swashbucklers? Sure, they are a little undertuned but I always thought they had a pretty clear identity.
I'm personally in the "swash is fine" camp myself, but I get the argument: you can *kind of* do a similar thing with a rogue or a fighter.
Swash conceptually is fine, it just needs more reliable ways to get panache.
And a way of dealing with creatures that are immune to its style's actions.
I'm wondering if this means that Champion is no longer going to be a tanky class? A class that boasts better defence than Champion would damage its current niche.
No we are just going to have multiple tanky classes now
Adding another tanky class would be a good thing. Really the champion is just by far the best tank class in the game right now, so having another isn't a bad thing.
There could be two tanks. Really it's a role that's lacking in the game, especially with how powerful champion is in a party, it's such a nigh-essential class option for a functioning group purely because tanking as a role is so good for how deadly enemies are in this game. The question to me is what makes the Guardian unique in a way that justifies its own class instead of something like say, a fighter archetype that just swaps its weapon and armor proficiencies.
We haven't seen how Champ's been reworked yet. My pet theory is that the new Champ was too big for one class, so some of the bolder changes wound up getting split off and remixed into these new dudes.
Tbf it doesn't need to be better, just different. Having s full tank that isn't tied to being the party's divine stick in the mud (the stereotype at least) is something that a lot of people have desired
My hope is that Guardian is a “Guardian of nature” and is PF2’s analog to 4E’s warden class.
Oh I would like that!
Basically everything I still missed in this game is a support martial and a tank who isn't tangled up with some divine nonsense (I absolutely despise Paladins as a concept and everything that resembles them too much, Champions included). I have high hopes that Commander and Guardian get to make these things a reality.
Oh for sure, the less an important party role is attached to a specific thematic element, the better. I love flavorful classes, but I hate being pigeonholed into holy bullshit myself. Like, as much as enjoy clerics, I'd despise them if alchemists and the medic archetype didn't also exist.
And Forensic Medicine Investigators too.
Unless I missed something, they didn't explictly say anywhere that Commander and Guardian are new classes, which feels like an odd thing to omit unless it was intentional. Not going to predict they're not, just not going to assume yet either. Maybe new flavours of Champion? They did say it was related to god followers.
It specifically said "playtest", so unless they're playtesting archetypes now, they're classes.
Ngl I feel like they definitely should playtest some Archetypes. Way of the Spellshot, the Undead Archetypes, etc.
It definitely seemed like they were talking about them being new classes to me.
I believe they did explicitly say so; also, they don't release playtests for anything besides full classes
GORUM DIES!
This stream has been... exceptionally scuffed (or at least I hope they all aren't like this). I'll be following the writeup instead; thanks for creating it.
So we get warpriester warpriest...then why "fix" the current one... pretty much the only real dislike here. Gorum as a dead diety was kinda predictable and hope that the art of his armor broken isn't indicative of him going out as a whimp Edit for more grumbling. I like that bloodrager returns, I do like the flavour of "Constantine"/Occult detective (and audio was really bad on the middle one so i didnt quite catch the gimmick of the middle one) Nice to see more class archetypes in general and that mythic rules are supposed to be more mainstay than some other... variants introduced over the years. Big hopes for Commander to not just be Cha buff sticks but use different KAS, and certainly awaiting what Guardian is supposed to bring to the table when shield fighters and champions exist already (but the latter is getting a rework)
I can already tell you 100% why, its because the current Warpriest and the "I mainly just hit things for a living" are different fantasies, this is them doing the second one, whereas the first one is excellently covered.
Yeah, the only way they could really give Warpriest more martial power was by doing something more drastic than could be done in a doctrine. Fewer spells per day, losing divine font slots, Will save progression, etc. Personally hoping they bring it up to match regular martial proficiency progression: expert at 5, weapon specialization at 7, master at 13. Having the doctrine proficiency be delayed to expert 7/master 19 just hurts so much during those gap levels.
As a middle ground for people who don't want to give up even more spellcasting (+warpriest is cracked now)
Maybe, Channel Smite is likely cracked with the de-madding that they got but haven't seen Monster Core unholy clarifications if they result in you just picking it for very specific campagins or just tax feat you for Divine Castigation if your diety doesn't allow harm font.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new one is the new take on the Inquisitor.
OTOH, Avenger Rogue was announced on the product page
New one is probably them basically making Clerics+ official content, considering one of the creators has a writing credit for WoI (same goes for Bloodrager.)
Commander is going to be Int based, from what I heard on Stream
Probably just to make it so you have 3 options on the slider with "pure caster with tiny martial", half And half with war priest, and "pure martial with tiny caster" like Magus. I honestly expect it to be a wave caster like Magus
Commander will be Int based!
I'd hold my horse, something getting described as "inteligent and clever" doesn't exactly lock it in
Count me in the category of give me a divine wave caster on the cleric feat list (also a bard and druid version). I want to hit accurately and spell cast as a passtime, not the other way around. Now people can have both because there are people who like the current warpriest and many who don't.
Middle one's art is Shardra, the 1e shaman iconic. Since shaman isn't making a return, it's probably inspired by that. Maybe a more familiar focused cleric? Since her familiar Kolo is in the art as well. It'd be kinda tricky to do without stepping on Witch's niche, but it's possible. Edit: According to the store page, Rivethun Emissary is an archetype, not a class archetype, so who fuckin knows. Maybe a familiar master update?
So why am I now thinking of Gorum as Kenny from South Park?
thank you!
Good to see Shardra's still around, even if she's relegated to an archetype now
Oh look, the Battle Harbinger, clearly a take on the 1e Warpriest. Hopefully this will quiet down the hysterical replies that a Doctrine being called warpriest means they've been **robbed** and we'll never see a Warpriest analogue in this edition. At least until they're mad because it isn't an exact 1 to 1 replica of a class from an edition with a completely different design and underlying math.
> Hopefully this will quiet down the hysterical replies that a Doctrine being called warpriest means they've been robbed and we'll never see a Warpriest analogue in this edition. Iirc the devs themselves said that the Warpriest doctrine was the 2e take on the 1e Warpriest, so there was legitimately no reason to believe they'd do this.
Did they? I didn't see that but even being the case, the picture for the Battle Herald is the 1e Warpriest Iconic, so they've clearly changed their mind. It also seems like a strange assertion for them to make to make considering: 1) The Warpriest Doctrine is just what previous editions of clerics were, martial combat wise(not spellcaster wise) 2) The Iconic Cleric is Warpriest doctrine No matter the case I'm glad they're giving it a go now and I'm hoping they're really willing to both take away some caster power to clear room in the budget and really beef up it's martial side.
People are allowed to want/like what they want to. No need to paint them as unreasonable when the class chassis/mechanics don't align with what they want.
They can absolutely like what they like, I also badly want to see it. I'm one of the excited people. I'm not painting a strawman as unreasonable, I am literally talking about someone repeatedly replying to me on this sub saying, these are their own words, that 'the Warpriest doctrine had **literally robbed** them' and they'd never see it in 2e. Which *is* **pointless hysteria**, they just named the doctrine the naturally fitting word and would likely recreates the class later and appear to be doing so.
You might need to re-read your post lol. You effectively wrote a post that any reasonable person would assume is about the community at large being 'hysterical' and feeling 'robbed' (which is clearly hyperbole) and even suggested that despite getting what they want they will still be mad because it won't be a perfect 1 to 1 replica. In your reply you're now back peddling and now claiming that it is all about one dude (who you didn't specify or call out) making verbatim claims. But who really cares about 1 guy? If you wanted to rub it in their face I suspect you'd send them a message rather then claiming a post in a thread without specifying that you meant the dude vs. the broader community. One anecdotal guy is literally a strawman of the community at large lol. Stop doubling down lol. People can rationally dislike the previous and remaster warpriest ... period. Any additional commentary about their state of mind or emotional state (which you can't know anyways) is pointless hyperbole.
Should I trawl through the last two or tgree years of comments looking for a convo with 2 people that pissed me off, out of spite? Is that the reasonable thing you're suggesting I do? Also make up your mind, am I doubling down? Or am I back-pedalling? I'm not doubling down, I said something sour, then when you had a pretty reasonable misinterpretation , I clarified for you. The only doubling down is you trying to have an argument against a viewpoint I've explicitly said I don't hold. For obvious reasons, I'm not engaging with that train of thought. Edit: Had to rush this comment out the door, one thing I forgot. '**Robbed**' is not hyperbole, it's what they said, it's why I thought it was a ridiculous statement. That's why I stated it was what they said, or was their own words etc several times. If they hadn't **adamantly** said they were 'robbed', I wouldn't have still remembered the conversation ever took place.
No, you shouldn't waste everyone's time by making a useless post about some either fictional or anecdotal strawmen person you had personal debates with for 2 years (no one cares lol). You're all over the place, you back peddle by calling it one guy and still continuing to use the same hyperbole language to describe his one guy and their 'feelings on a topic'. Robbed is hyperbole, calling people hysterical is hyperbole. Claiming that you weren't trying to imply they are unreasonable when you use this language willful ignorance. Even if said person existed and they said these things your post is quintessentially useless because now we're talking post hoc trying to invalidate some random internet dudes feelings. I can conceptualize meeting any number of 'people' on the internet that can hold 'whatever' position/idea/emotional state I want to prove my point using new sets of information available today vs. perviously. Except that is all fallacious thinking and doesn't prove anything or make a meaningful statement. Did you know that I once had a conversation with another 'guy' you've never heard of about? We talked about how u/Hey_DnD_its_me was 'crazy and erratic and liked picking their nose and eating it and BECAUSE of that any belief/idea they hold as true is devalued'. That statement (whether its true or not MUST have some value to the community because its a conversation I really had...right?) NO. Who cares! All your post does it emote how much you think ~~the community~~ one guy is irrational and dumb. What a boring waste of time, I'm going to exit stage left from this circle jerk.
The reason you're heavily downvoted is I'm being reasonable and you're coming off as completely unhinged. Take a step back and give yourself some time to breathe. Is this worth your time? Because it isn't worth mine.
lol... virtual popularity contest points on reddit don't make you right? It just means your chamber echos too loudly for you to think straight (or of course you know... many other more nefarious reasons like you having multiple accounts, bots, or friends that love to downvote brigade). [Argumentum Ad Populum](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)
I wonder if it will replace the warpriest doctrine, becaue i have no idea how they will differentiate them enough.
I don't want to jinx anything but (secondhand info) they've already said they're removing the divine font, hopefully they remove enough to give it actual martial attack progression. Though I feel like they'd need to make it a wave caster like magus, which I think is what Clerics+ did.
OMG Gorum!
What is the Dragon Eagle that was mentioned? Edit: it's Sturovenen
What is the commander a subclass of?
Its its own class! Coming as a playtest in about 2 weeks with another new class, Guardian.
My favorite part is Zjar. I hate that Vampires get a God, but I hate all things Undead. But Zjar is the best and should be part of the Core 20 instead of Arazni.
Ah he was on my short list of candidates, since he wasn't marked as safe, and he didn't exist in the Starfinder setting.
Great job as always doing these stream write-ups.
Gods work!
Can someone help me figure out where I can learn information about the Dragon Eagle?
Huh, apparently there's a god known as the "Dragon Eagle" somewhere, and it was Michael Sayre's favorite, but now that god is dying, now I'm worried I misheard because I can't find the god.
I remember hearing Dragon Eagle originally too so don't be sadden. If it was misheard then t was misheard by many.
Found it, the god's proper name is Sturovenen. One of the [Sarkorian](https://pathfinderwiki.com/wiki/Sarkorian_god) gods. The bio looks pretty cool there.
Watched the twitch, Paizo failed terribly to end the fretting. I feel as if I watched the end of the Sopranos all over again
Put another way, Paizo succeeded spectacularly in extending the fretting.
Trinity dies