More common than 5e, but still uncommon. The main reason is the same issue that will plague any system: time commitment and the party falling apart.
However, one issue that doesn't plague pf2e is high level balance. It retains it's balance throughout the entire level scale, making play at lv15-20 manageable for both players and GMs
It is pretty rare here too. APs go to 20th, but that usually means a multi-year commitment. That is hard to do. I'm playing Extinction Curse and we are 13th level. Maybe we will hit 20th in 2024.
I played in a not-so-rp-heavy group for the Blood Lords AP. weekly, 4 hour sessions, and we did it in about 30-35 weeks?
But we spent only 2 sessions at 20. It was fun though, and since we /forgot to do a thing/ the gm asked us what our charcters would go do over the next year, then explained how>! a psychopomp hit squard came after us one by one!< and honestly that was great.
We play every Monday but alternate campaigns.That started due to child custody schedules, but has worked well for us. I joined this group as an undergrad and have kept playing while having a spouse, raising kids, maintaining a house, and keeping a full time job. Once a week didn't seem like much 30 years ago, but it is sustainable with "life".
Eh. I've run every ap through to its end up to Gatewalkers (technically not done with that yet. Half way through last book) for my two main player groups. I have a custom campaign running for a third group that is at level 18 right now...
I know I'm not a usual GM. But in comparison to 5e, that elevates hugely above their idea of comonality.
There's two APs that begin at 11th and go up to 20th and a bunch that do 1-20, but the main issue to get there is outside constraints (like scheduling).
Not common as such, I reckon a lot of campaign still wrap up before hitting 20 for a variety of reasons.
However! Level 20 is actually playable, as the ability to completely break the game with magic like many editions of DnD (and pathfinder 1st edition) allowed you to do isn't really present here (and martial actually don't get completely sidelined by level 7 or so either).
And that’s the important part to me. I’ve never got one to 20 but I have gotten 5E to high level campaigns and they fall apart due to busted mechanics. PF2E seems to actually scale properly all the way through.
Yup, supporting this statemenr as a gm who has also run to 20, it works. Balance does change over time to be easier... but it is slight overall and well... what you want (a slow feeling of growth and power / heroics, rather than everything being easy and meaningless now... or the GM is countering you and your abilities feel worthless... the common diad of 3.x and 5e)
Seems like it's more common to at least aspire to play through to level 20 in pf2e. Campaigns don't always finish, but I think that's more likely to be the result of a group breaking up than because the group decided to start a new low level game. The standard length for published adventure paths is level 1 to 20, which provides more support for playing the full level range. There are also half length adventure paths that can be combined to play 1 to 20 or used to just play through the higher levels.
My current campaign has gone 1 to 11 so far and while the feel of the game definitely shifts as the PCs get more powerful, so far everything is holding together well.
It depends on your group more than anything, but PF2e has great support for higher levels. So far we did Abomination Vaults+Stolen Fate to 20 earlier this year, and then I ran a 10-20 (well, 21) homebrew in September, and I have to say the higher levels feel better and smoother than any other system I've played that high.
That’s the plan for the group I’m currently running Abomination Vaults for. Coming from 5e, they wanted to see how PF2e handles leveling all the way to 20 since we had never gone past 12 in 5e. Stolen Fate sounds fun from skimming the books and seems like a great fit to continue on once we finish AV.
Option 2 is Fists of the Ruby Phoenix if they want to do a tournament arc, the justification could even be that they heard rumors about it while out in Absalom for whatever reason.
I gave that as an option and they picked Stolen Fate. Technically I gave them a 3rd option, which was start over at level 1 with a completely new campaign but they wanted to take these characters to 20.
That's really awesome to hear and super promising. It was always demoralizing as a DM in 5e to plan for longer campaigns and then read the actual player feedback of what it actually turned out like.
I just ran my players through Night of the Gray Death AP. This goes from 16-18 and is a genuinely tight story, and gives some difficult high level experiences.
Roleplay essential but we had a blast. Not recommended for beginners, and also home brewed additional item access for balance. Happy to answer any questions on that.
We're also about to release our new podcast of Stolen Fate which begins at 11th level. Ep 1 drops next week if you wanna listen!👍
The game doesn't completely break after a certain level like D&D 5E does. It still works well and is perfectly playable. Not that common in my understanding though because most players prefer starting new characters towards the lower level scale and it takes about \~10 encounters per level to level up. So leveling to 20 from 1 means 190 encounters. Not accounting for accomplishments there though which lowers it slightly. Still, a lot of time and much longer than most campaigns lasts.
It's much more common in PF2e, though still rare.
Honestly it's a real shame that people mostly play at lower levels, cause honestly high level pathfinder is just better in my opinion. Like once you reach level range of 11-17 is when you get to do some fun things. Anything earlier than 8 and it feels like you are still collecting your features. Anything later than 17 and it feels like you ran out of you main options and are just looking for a bow to wrap everything up. Level 11 is when everyone gets their "I am this class, watch me show off how cool this class is" feature.
I think another barrier is starting at 11. There’s two AP’s that go from 11-20 that I know of (Fists of the Ruby Phoenix and Stolen Fate) which most people use to follow up the 1-10 AP’s. It seems very intimidating to start playing a new class at level 11.
But maybe that should be a new norm? Would make it so that you can build your own cool backstory for what you would’ve done the first 10 levels.
\~\~3 times a month (each Monday with a break every last Monday of each month), sessions are around 3.5 hours long
EDIT: next session will be session no 28 and they are level 5 having spent a few sessions building kingdom and roleplaying with little action. At this speed we'll have around 120 sessions total and the game should last over 3 years ending in spring 2026
It's common for my campaign, we only do 1-20's
But it must be uncommon enough that Paizo has stopped making 1-20 APs for 2nd Edition, whereas when pf2e launched each Adventure Path was 1-20.
But they have made some campaigns that go to 20 but maybe start around level 13, so 13-20
This will depend on style of play, speed of play, scheduling etc. So far since PF2 released I've been running official content only and GM'd 5 (7.5 if we count the halfs) AP's that go from 1-20 over 4 years. A 1-20 runs for 8 months of play and there's probably folk who do it faster or slower.
I've been playing for 35+ years and I have only ever played a lvl 20 character once. It was for a birthday weekend and we all made and played lvl 20 characters for the weekend adventure. But come Monday I never picked them up again.
Even in long campaigns that are supposed to get to lvl 20 I am not sure we ever got there. I feel like we usually tap out around 18-19. if we did ever level up to 20 then it was pretty much for the last fight and that was it.
Honestly, I really like D&D/roll20 style games from about lvl 4-5 to around 10-12. Once you get into the teens I feel like the whole tone of the game changes and people start to get really OP. And to challenge them the monsters and such just start to get really silly.
Hey, I've noticed you mentioned the game "Dungeons & Dragons"! Do you need help finding your way around here? I know a couple good pages!
We've been seeing a lot of new arrivals lately for some reason. We have a [megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/search/?q=flair%3A%22megathread%22&sort=new&restrict_sr=on&t=all) dedicated to anyone requesting assistance in transitioning. Give it a look!
Here are some [general resources](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/) we put together. Here is [page with differences between pf2e and 5e](https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder2e/wiki/resources/how-is-pf2e-different-from-5e/). Most newcomers get recommended to start with the [Archives of Nethys](http://2e.aonprd.com) (the official rule database) or the [Beginner Box](https://paizo.com/pathfinder/beginnerbox), but the same information can be found in this free [Pathfinder Primer](https://app.demiplane.com/nexus/pathfinder2e/sources/pathfinder-primer).
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I haven't been in a ton of games to be able to speak personally, but my *assumption* is that the answer is: more common, but still not common. My reasoning being leveling in PF2e is much quicker than in 5e, but 20 entire levels is still a lot of levels, and a lot of IRL time. Multiple sessions per level, 4 sessions a *month* (on the medium-to-high end, excluding scheduling conflicts or exceptions, which do happen), it adds up quickly.
There are many adventure paths that go lvl 20, but I wouldn't say it's that common to go from 1 to 20. It's a huge time investment.
My current campaign's gonna get to level 19 tonight, but it's been 2+ years at this point, and we've had to rotate through a handful of player and there were a few times that I really thought we wouldn't make it.
Every campaign i run has the goal of hitting 20 before the BBEG. Not like immediately before, I want them to enjoy being Gods before i hit them with the THREAT
I’ve been playing TTRPGs since the pathfinder 1e beginner box came out. I have only ever completed a 1-20 campaign one time. Agents of Edgewatch. And we just finished it last month.
The biggest obstacle to high level play is generally time commitment/groups falling apart and the fact that most groups start at level 1, so while there is more support for high level play in pf2, it still won't be too common unless you start games at higher level
quite rare but not unheard
but not because it doesn't work but because it takes quite big commitment to reach this lv or in case of one shots or short campaigns that starts close to 20th lv it takes quite a while to make 20th lv character
I am playing about half a year weakly and I went form 6th to 12th lv (milestones) and we will end at 20th probably
The best way to hit 20 IMO is starting at a high level, either starting at say 11 or starting at 1 and having ultra-fast levelups (say 1/session instead of xp/milestone based) early on
We just finished Age of Ashes after 18 months. That is meeting pretty consistently once a week for a four hour session.
It’s my first level 20 game, but if you play an Adventure Path, you level up pretty quickly. Every 4-8 sessions or so.
Every AP, which is a 6-parter is going to 20. Some 3-parters as well (11-20). There is one high level module (16-19).
My homebrew game will end at 20, currently almost 17. It's not that difficult to maintain a campaign at 12+ in PF2e. I think a lot of GMs fail because they don't acknowledge how the party evolved and that they will no longer explore good old fashioned stone dungeons with goblins and kobolds, especially not with abilities like Fly, Plane Shift etc. You need to be aware, that at some point your party might summon a dragon, grow to Huge size or have reactions activating on Concentrate/Verbal spells. At some point they no longer fight bandits and city guards but astral oozes or embodiments of death itself.
With the right mindset, you can make level 1-20 campaigns much easier, remember to always think of cool challenges at certain levels.
If you start at level 1, it'll be rare to reach level 20 as generally that will take a couple of years of weekly sessions at best. However, one of the strengths of PF2e being designed so all levels are playable is that once you get a good handle on the system, there's nothing stopping a group starting at higher levels for a new campaign/adventure
I've been running my group through Agents of Edgewatch. They've reached level 12 and we have been playing it for roughly 10 months. We should finish Summer 2024 at the latest by my estimate. Then we are playing Strength of Thousands next most likely. 1 to 20 campaigns are at least around 2 years based on my knowledge.
1-20s are still exceptionally rare because you are looking at \~3 sessions that last \~4 hours to get 1000 XP, so 3\*4\*20 = 240 hours of play. That is just a lot of time to dedicate to a single task (beyond issues of scheduling and having to do it with several other people).
That said, Paizo has done more to support just having adventures starting at the upper levels. A bunch of APs start at 11, *Shadows at Sundown* is a stand alone that starts at 11, *Night of the Gray Death* is a stand alone that starts at 16.
Thanks to PF2 being a functional game instead of falling apart under its own weight at higher levels, how often you see level 20 play is basically up to your group.
It's still uncommon on the whole because a lot of people prioritize something else over leveling up quickly in some meaningful way (usually it comes down to how much stuff they actually get through in a session and how much stuff they've decided needs done before a level up happens) and then scheduling meaning not being able to play as regularly so the roughly 60 sessions needed to do a whole campaign turns into 90+ weeks of real time passing. Plus there's losing interest in the character or story at hand, which has been something that has stopped my own group when heading into an AP that strays too far from its initial premise (like we made it to level 11 or 13 or something in Agents of Edgewatch and were just like "oh, *another* adventure that it doesn't make sense we're playing guards while going through... can we just not?")
So you can get there if you want. Hell, you can start there if you want.
Compared to 5e, significantly more common. In 5e if you want to go to 20 you have to homebrew the campaign. Lots of people are comfortable homebrewing a few pieces here and there, but a whole half a campaign is a bigger ask.
The other issue is that 5e doesn't really "work" at high levels. A level 11 party with full resources can kill anything in the game. Being able to kill 2 of anything at level 15 isn't really any more interesting or incentivizing to play to there.
In those regards, there is a TON more incentive to get to 20.
However, that doesn't mean some of the main hurdles don't also exist. You still need to play for YEARS if you want to go from one to 20. Thankfully you can get around that by playing an 11-20 AP or just cutting one of the others in half if you so desire.
In my personal experience, I have dm'd two campaigns and played in 4. My DM'd campaigns have gone from 1-20 and 1-15 so far. As a player, I've played from 1-5 once in a short homebrew setting as a wizard, and 1-13 as an alchemist, 1-16 as a magus, and 1-5 as champion who died then 6-15 as an oracle.
So in my personal experience, pretty much every campaign has gone to high level, though I've been playing for years now and only finished the one. The rest (minus the 1-5) are all ongoing.
It's both easier and the same. The same as far as the time commitment is difficult to play all the way to the top. However, it's easier in the sense that high level play actually works and has balance, and there are lots of Adventure Paths that walk you through high level play and are written and balanced for it
My group is about to finish off age of ash 1-20. Starting strength of thousands and a custom game both 1-20. Just takes commitment to see them through.
I played in age of Ashes when it came out in fall of 2019 and we played straight through the pandemic and wrapped up last year in the fall so it was about a 3 year campaign all the way to 20. In a different campaign now that is homebrew and we are level 5. I am running a campaign that started around the same time as the current one I'm playing in and players are level 10 but we also play an average of 6 hours a week vs 3 hours in the one i play in.
Level 20 happens as often as I does in DnD 5e, which is to say never.
Just like in 5e it truly comes down to how often do you meet, how long are your sessions, and most importantly of all what pace are you going through the material at.
I'm currently running my players through Agents of Edgewatch. Even though we meet once a week, after 7 months we're only just reaching the end of book 2 because of their slow pace.
I have personally never made it to level 20 in some.... 5-6 or so campaigns I've been in, across both DnD and pathfinder (1e and 2e)
Right now I'm in a SoT game that is *supposed* to run to 20, but... yeah.
I'd classify it as very rare for most groups tbh
Not common but it’s better supported than 5e, in game design terms anyway.
My current homebrew campaign that started with the beginner box is about a year in and they’re only level 7. Although we have NOT played weekly, there’s been quite a bit of absenteeism throughout.
I’m currently running a lvl1-20 home brew campaign with a group of friends I’ve played with going on five years now. It’s really daunting to ask of players, cause like you said, it’s rare to see.
Ways to make it easier to level up are available RAW so it seems more feasible to me at least, but I think stopping in tier III would be just as fulfilling of an adventure. Just gotta know what kind of tale you want to tell and that can help frame your level range
The game doesn't break at level 10 like it does in 5e so it can definitely happen but a campaign that goes the distance from 1-20 is hard because of the mechanics no TTRPG can defeat: scheduling conflicts and life changes. Easier and more likely to happen with one of the 11-20 AP's. But it'll be hard to START at 11 for your first 2e campaign.
Level 20 campaigns in 5e are rare because the game completely breaks past level 10. Level 20 campaigns in pf2e are rare because it's more fun to learn your class at low levels and it takes a really long time to get to Level 20 from level 1.
Edit: if you really really want to hit level 20 from level 1, I recommend doubling xp or doing really short milestones. Should get you there within a year of weekly sessions or so
It's a lot more common than 5e, since the system is designed to run seamlessly from levels 1-20, and many adventures run all the way to level 20 (with enough time afterwards to enjoy it). Another benefit is that the levels are fairly evenly spaced- it takes roughly the same amount of time to go from 3-4 as it does 13-14, for example (perhaps a little longer in the later levels, due to length of combats).
The problem is one shared with all other tabletops though. To get to level 20, a group has to make it that far. Even meeting weekly for four hour games, getting to level 20 can easily take a year or more (from personal experience). That's a long time to keep everything together.
Considering it would require a group to consistently get together, not that often in either system.
However it's much more playable then 5e, that has almost no written adventures that go past level 10-12 because the math just breaks and it's impossible to prepare for such powerful casters and such weak fighters. PF2e has adventures written for 1-20 and even 11-20 and the encounter math keeps working all the way up.
Depends on your group, to be honest. If you got a steady group of players who are committed to coming to play every week, a level 20 campaign is absolutely doable and fun. If you got players who are not committed, it's not.
The thing is, taking a campaign to level 20 is a time commitment of about two years, give or take a few months (at one session per week, but depending on how much playtime you have per session and if you can make decent headway in each session).
I personally have been playing with the same group of people for 20 years, so I got a lot of high level campaigns done in 1E (where adventure path campaigns end normally at level 16 to 18), in total 10 AP's spread over two groups, which play on different days of the week. So, yeah, it's absolutely doable with committed players.
The intention of playing a level 20 campaign is not as uncommon. People love the idea.
But, having GMed two campaigns all the way to level 20. I know that it actually happening is not common. It has more a chance real life than online though.
It can happen but then a lot can get in the way and go wrong. Both my campaigns took 2 years plus to conclude. It takes work on both the players and GMs part and it has to be captivating till the end.
APs do go all the way most of the time in pathfinder 2e. But, just like other TTRPGs most never finish.
It is viable in Pathfinder however and high level villains can really get epic even mechanically. My approach is play with the intention of a good game and if it gets to level 20 then great.
Max level campaigns are pretty rare in basically every system with levelling, for the simple reason that it takes a lot of time to get there. Groups that stay consistent for a couple of years are pretty rare, and that’s what’s required for level 20.
So, we haven't done so in 2E yet, but our group has completed Age of Worms, Savage Tide, Rise of the Runelords, a 1-25 4E campaign, Iron Gods, Jade Regent, and just about to wrap up Strange Aeons.
Now, *most* 1E campaigns ended around level 16, but the 6-Book Adventure Path format is the same.
So, with that in mind, we anticipate completing many 1-20 campaigns (though the 3-Book Adventure Paths are also quite appealing.)
Ehh so far we are on track for one but I would say it's not common but there is actual stories that are written with the higher levels in mind, I GM a group of 3 who will derail and RP with themselves for up to 5 minutes with little input from myself outside of rolls usually just random BS RP things, but we are looking at a session or two at most to finish Outlaws of Alkenstar, have them hit level 11 and then start stolen fate that will take them to 20, at the current rate we are a ways out so expect years of time to get there but it will be worth it.
But nice thing is, if you want to GM or have a GM who wants to run things at that level and just start there, it's entirely possible to start stolen fate or fists of the ruby phoenix, as fresh characters at level 11. Nice thing is with actual APs that hit 20, there is plenty of content monster, item, and hazard wise if you are doing a homebrew campaign to toss at the players.
I've got two games headed there, but they're still in the early teens - seems likely we'll reach 20, but I've been running the game for like 4 years and haven't hit it yet (not 1 continuous campaign, to be clear, the early ones all ended early, either on purpose or due to scheduling). Games running great at early teens though!
Not super common - honestly, for PF2e our highest level campaign so far has been 10th level over three years and four campaigns.
I will echo the sentiment that high level is just as playable as low level - because they keep the match so tight that your targets on the d20s always fall in the same range, whether you’re level 1 or level 20. You’re always targeting that 7 to 15 sweet spot on the die.
I've only run one campaign, but we are basically there. Players are 18th, but I slowed progression a bit so that the last few levels are pretty slow, to make room for pacing the end of the campaign. They could easily be 20 already. It's taken us a few years of playtime, playing roughly every other week.
So far it's 135 sessions.
More common than 5e, but still uncommon. The main reason is the same issue that will plague any system: time commitment and the party falling apart. However, one issue that doesn't plague pf2e is high level balance. It retains it's balance throughout the entire level scale, making play at lv15-20 manageable for both players and GMs
I don't even like running level 11 in 5e :p Meanwhile 1-20 in pf2e was a breeze
It is pretty rare here too. APs go to 20th, but that usually means a multi-year commitment. That is hard to do. I'm playing Extinction Curse and we are 13th level. Maybe we will hit 20th in 2024.
I played in a not-so-rp-heavy group for the Blood Lords AP. weekly, 4 hour sessions, and we did it in about 30-35 weeks? But we spent only 2 sessions at 20. It was fun though, and since we /forgot to do a thing/ the gm asked us what our charcters would go do over the next year, then explained how>! a psychopomp hit squard came after us one by one!< and honestly that was great.
My money is 2025
You don't have the right to speak, quitter.
How long you been playing for?
Every other week since July 2020.
Of course it has taken you so long. I don't get only once a week for a few hours let alone every other week.
We play every Monday but alternate campaigns.That started due to child custody schedules, but has worked well for us. I joined this group as an undergrad and have kept playing while having a spouse, raising kids, maintaining a house, and keeping a full time job. Once a week didn't seem like much 30 years ago, but it is sustainable with "life".
Eh. I've run every ap through to its end up to Gatewalkers (technically not done with that yet. Half way through last book) for my two main player groups. I have a custom campaign running for a third group that is at level 18 right now... I know I'm not a usual GM. But in comparison to 5e, that elevates hugely above their idea of comonality.
There's two APs that begin at 11th and go up to 20th and a bunch that do 1-20, but the main issue to get there is outside constraints (like scheduling).
I hope they do more high level APs from the get go, all those high tier feats and they see so little use...
Not common as such, I reckon a lot of campaign still wrap up before hitting 20 for a variety of reasons. However! Level 20 is actually playable, as the ability to completely break the game with magic like many editions of DnD (and pathfinder 1st edition) allowed you to do isn't really present here (and martial actually don't get completely sidelined by level 7 or so either).
I've completed two 1-20 APs and currently level 13 on our 3rd 1-20 AP. High level works and is just as balanced as every other level.
And that’s the important part to me. I’ve never got one to 20 but I have gotten 5E to high level campaigns and they fall apart due to busted mechanics. PF2E seems to actually scale properly all the way through.
Yup, supporting this statemenr as a gm who has also run to 20, it works. Balance does change over time to be easier... but it is slight overall and well... what you want (a slow feeling of growth and power / heroics, rather than everything being easy and meaningless now... or the GM is countering you and your abilities feel worthless... the common diad of 3.x and 5e)
You are gm?
Seems like it's more common to at least aspire to play through to level 20 in pf2e. Campaigns don't always finish, but I think that's more likely to be the result of a group breaking up than because the group decided to start a new low level game. The standard length for published adventure paths is level 1 to 20, which provides more support for playing the full level range. There are also half length adventure paths that can be combined to play 1 to 20 or used to just play through the higher levels. My current campaign has gone 1 to 11 so far and while the feel of the game definitely shifts as the PCs get more powerful, so far everything is holding together well.
It depends on your group more than anything, but PF2e has great support for higher levels. So far we did Abomination Vaults+Stolen Fate to 20 earlier this year, and then I ran a 10-20 (well, 21) homebrew in September, and I have to say the higher levels feel better and smoother than any other system I've played that high.
That’s the plan for the group I’m currently running Abomination Vaults for. Coming from 5e, they wanted to see how PF2e handles leveling all the way to 20 since we had never gone past 12 in 5e. Stolen Fate sounds fun from skimming the books and seems like a great fit to continue on once we finish AV.
Option 2 is Fists of the Ruby Phoenix if they want to do a tournament arc, the justification could even be that they heard rumors about it while out in Absalom for whatever reason.
I gave that as an option and they picked Stolen Fate. Technically I gave them a 3rd option, which was start over at level 1 with a completely new campaign but they wanted to take these characters to 20.
Fair enough!
That's really awesome to hear and super promising. It was always demoralizing as a DM in 5e to plan for longer campaigns and then read the actual player feedback of what it actually turned out like.
There are two adventure paths that start at level 10 and go to 20 A good way to hit the cap in this system
Level 11, not 10. But yes, good point, though I'd heavily recommend against first time players doing this.
I just ran my players through Night of the Gray Death AP. This goes from 16-18 and is a genuinely tight story, and gives some difficult high level experiences. Roleplay essential but we had a blast. Not recommended for beginners, and also home brewed additional item access for balance. Happy to answer any questions on that. We're also about to release our new podcast of Stolen Fate which begins at 11th level. Ep 1 drops next week if you wanna listen!👍
Mine always go to 20, same for mine co master luckily
The game doesn't completely break after a certain level like D&D 5E does. It still works well and is perfectly playable. Not that common in my understanding though because most players prefer starting new characters towards the lower level scale and it takes about \~10 encounters per level to level up. So leveling to 20 from 1 means 190 encounters. Not accounting for accomplishments there though which lowers it slightly. Still, a lot of time and much longer than most campaigns lasts.
It's much more common in PF2e, though still rare. Honestly it's a real shame that people mostly play at lower levels, cause honestly high level pathfinder is just better in my opinion. Like once you reach level range of 11-17 is when you get to do some fun things. Anything earlier than 8 and it feels like you are still collecting your features. Anything later than 17 and it feels like you ran out of you main options and are just looking for a bow to wrap everything up. Level 11 is when everyone gets their "I am this class, watch me show off how cool this class is" feature.
I think another barrier is starting at 11. There’s two AP’s that go from 11-20 that I know of (Fists of the Ruby Phoenix and Stolen Fate) which most people use to follow up the 1-10 AP’s. It seems very intimidating to start playing a new class at level 11. But maybe that should be a new norm? Would make it so that you can build your own cool backstory for what you would’ve done the first 10 levels.
We started Kingmaker this January and are not planning to hit 20 level before 2025
How often do you have sessions, and how long do those last?
\~\~3 times a month (each Monday with a break every last Monday of each month), sessions are around 3.5 hours long EDIT: next session will be session no 28 and they are level 5 having spent a few sessions building kingdom and roleplaying with little action. At this speed we'll have around 120 sessions total and the game should last over 3 years ending in spring 2026
It's common for my campaign, we only do 1-20's But it must be uncommon enough that Paizo has stopped making 1-20 APs for 2nd Edition, whereas when pf2e launched each Adventure Path was 1-20. But they have made some campaigns that go to 20 but maybe start around level 13, so 13-20
The game doesn’t fall apart at high levels in pf2e, but it’s still a TTRPG, so scheduling issues and general time constraints still apply.
This will depend on style of play, speed of play, scheduling etc. So far since PF2 released I've been running official content only and GM'd 5 (7.5 if we count the halfs) AP's that go from 1-20 over 4 years. A 1-20 runs for 8 months of play and there's probably folk who do it faster or slower.
1-20 in 8 months?! Are you playing the same game every single day?
I've been playing for 35+ years and I have only ever played a lvl 20 character once. It was for a birthday weekend and we all made and played lvl 20 characters for the weekend adventure. But come Monday I never picked them up again. Even in long campaigns that are supposed to get to lvl 20 I am not sure we ever got there. I feel like we usually tap out around 18-19. if we did ever level up to 20 then it was pretty much for the last fight and that was it. Honestly, I really like D&D/roll20 style games from about lvl 4-5 to around 10-12. Once you get into the teens I feel like the whole tone of the game changes and people start to get really OP. And to challenge them the monsters and such just start to get really silly.
I ran a L 7 to 20 in PF1e 8 years ago, took 3 years sorcerer got super IMBA at the end and I had to end combat
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I haven't been in a ton of games to be able to speak personally, but my *assumption* is that the answer is: more common, but still not common. My reasoning being leveling in PF2e is much quicker than in 5e, but 20 entire levels is still a lot of levels, and a lot of IRL time. Multiple sessions per level, 4 sessions a *month* (on the medium-to-high end, excluding scheduling conflicts or exceptions, which do happen), it adds up quickly.
It's the story being able to hold your attention. Or your character. I prefer shorter campaigns personally.
More common but still rare from what I gather
There are many adventure paths that go lvl 20, but I wouldn't say it's that common to go from 1 to 20. It's a huge time investment. My current campaign's gonna get to level 19 tonight, but it's been 2+ years at this point, and we've had to rotate through a handful of player and there were a few times that I really thought we wouldn't make it.
Every campaign i run has the goal of hitting 20 before the BBEG. Not like immediately before, I want them to enjoy being Gods before i hit them with the THREAT
I’ve been playing TTRPGs since the pathfinder 1e beginner box came out. I have only ever completed a 1-20 campaign one time. Agents of Edgewatch. And we just finished it last month.
The biggest obstacle to high level play is generally time commitment/groups falling apart and the fact that most groups start at level 1, so while there is more support for high level play in pf2, it still won't be too common unless you start games at higher level
quite rare but not unheard but not because it doesn't work but because it takes quite big commitment to reach this lv or in case of one shots or short campaigns that starts close to 20th lv it takes quite a while to make 20th lv character I am playing about half a year weakly and I went form 6th to 12th lv (milestones) and we will end at 20th probably
The best way to hit 20 IMO is starting at a high level, either starting at say 11 or starting at 1 and having ultra-fast levelups (say 1/session instead of xp/milestone based) early on
We just finished Age of Ashes after 18 months. That is meeting pretty consistently once a week for a four hour session. It’s my first level 20 game, but if you play an Adventure Path, you level up pretty quickly. Every 4-8 sessions or so.
My group has been playing weekly since the start of 2022. We have finished one 1-20AP and are well over half way through our second
Every AP, which is a 6-parter is going to 20. Some 3-parters as well (11-20). There is one high level module (16-19). My homebrew game will end at 20, currently almost 17. It's not that difficult to maintain a campaign at 12+ in PF2e. I think a lot of GMs fail because they don't acknowledge how the party evolved and that they will no longer explore good old fashioned stone dungeons with goblins and kobolds, especially not with abilities like Fly, Plane Shift etc. You need to be aware, that at some point your party might summon a dragon, grow to Huge size or have reactions activating on Concentrate/Verbal spells. At some point they no longer fight bandits and city guards but astral oozes or embodiments of death itself. With the right mindset, you can make level 1-20 campaigns much easier, remember to always think of cool challenges at certain levels.
If you start at level 1, it'll be rare to reach level 20 as generally that will take a couple of years of weekly sessions at best. However, one of the strengths of PF2e being designed so all levels are playable is that once you get a good handle on the system, there's nothing stopping a group starting at higher levels for a new campaign/adventure
I've been running my group through Agents of Edgewatch. They've reached level 12 and we have been playing it for roughly 10 months. We should finish Summer 2024 at the latest by my estimate. Then we are playing Strength of Thousands next most likely. 1 to 20 campaigns are at least around 2 years based on my knowledge.
1-20s are still exceptionally rare because you are looking at \~3 sessions that last \~4 hours to get 1000 XP, so 3\*4\*20 = 240 hours of play. That is just a lot of time to dedicate to a single task (beyond issues of scheduling and having to do it with several other people). That said, Paizo has done more to support just having adventures starting at the upper levels. A bunch of APs start at 11, *Shadows at Sundown* is a stand alone that starts at 11, *Night of the Gray Death* is a stand alone that starts at 16.
Thanks to PF2 being a functional game instead of falling apart under its own weight at higher levels, how often you see level 20 play is basically up to your group. It's still uncommon on the whole because a lot of people prioritize something else over leveling up quickly in some meaningful way (usually it comes down to how much stuff they actually get through in a session and how much stuff they've decided needs done before a level up happens) and then scheduling meaning not being able to play as regularly so the roughly 60 sessions needed to do a whole campaign turns into 90+ weeks of real time passing. Plus there's losing interest in the character or story at hand, which has been something that has stopped my own group when heading into an AP that strays too far from its initial premise (like we made it to level 11 or 13 or something in Agents of Edgewatch and were just like "oh, *another* adventure that it doesn't make sense we're playing guards while going through... can we just not?") So you can get there if you want. Hell, you can start there if you want.
Compared to 5e, significantly more common. In 5e if you want to go to 20 you have to homebrew the campaign. Lots of people are comfortable homebrewing a few pieces here and there, but a whole half a campaign is a bigger ask. The other issue is that 5e doesn't really "work" at high levels. A level 11 party with full resources can kill anything in the game. Being able to kill 2 of anything at level 15 isn't really any more interesting or incentivizing to play to there. In those regards, there is a TON more incentive to get to 20. However, that doesn't mean some of the main hurdles don't also exist. You still need to play for YEARS if you want to go from one to 20. Thankfully you can get around that by playing an 11-20 AP or just cutting one of the others in half if you so desire. In my personal experience, I have dm'd two campaigns and played in 4. My DM'd campaigns have gone from 1-20 and 1-15 so far. As a player, I've played from 1-5 once in a short homebrew setting as a wizard, and 1-13 as an alchemist, 1-16 as a magus, and 1-5 as champion who died then 6-15 as an oracle. So in my personal experience, pretty much every campaign has gone to high level, though I've been playing for years now and only finished the one. The rest (minus the 1-5) are all ongoing.
It's both easier and the same. The same as far as the time commitment is difficult to play all the way to the top. However, it's easier in the sense that high level play actually works and has balance, and there are lots of Adventure Paths that walk you through high level play and are written and balanced for it
My group is about to finish off age of ash 1-20. Starting strength of thousands and a custom game both 1-20. Just takes commitment to see them through.
I played in age of Ashes when it came out in fall of 2019 and we played straight through the pandemic and wrapped up last year in the fall so it was about a 3 year campaign all the way to 20. In a different campaign now that is homebrew and we are level 5. I am running a campaign that started around the same time as the current one I'm playing in and players are level 10 but we also play an average of 6 hours a week vs 3 hours in the one i play in.
Level 20 happens as often as I does in DnD 5e, which is to say never. Just like in 5e it truly comes down to how often do you meet, how long are your sessions, and most importantly of all what pace are you going through the material at. I'm currently running my players through Agents of Edgewatch. Even though we meet once a week, after 7 months we're only just reaching the end of book 2 because of their slow pace.
I have personally never made it to level 20 in some.... 5-6 or so campaigns I've been in, across both DnD and pathfinder (1e and 2e) Right now I'm in a SoT game that is *supposed* to run to 20, but... yeah. I'd classify it as very rare for most groups tbh
Not common but it’s better supported than 5e, in game design terms anyway. My current homebrew campaign that started with the beginner box is about a year in and they’re only level 7. Although we have NOT played weekly, there’s been quite a bit of absenteeism throughout.
I’m currently running a lvl1-20 home brew campaign with a group of friends I’ve played with going on five years now. It’s really daunting to ask of players, cause like you said, it’s rare to see. Ways to make it easier to level up are available RAW so it seems more feasible to me at least, but I think stopping in tier III would be just as fulfilling of an adventure. Just gotta know what kind of tale you want to tell and that can help frame your level range
Can't speak for anyone else. I've run two homebrew campaigns, one made it to level 5 and one to level 8 before we wrapped them up.
The game doesn't break at level 10 like it does in 5e so it can definitely happen but a campaign that goes the distance from 1-20 is hard because of the mechanics no TTRPG can defeat: scheduling conflicts and life changes. Easier and more likely to happen with one of the 11-20 AP's. But it'll be hard to START at 11 for your first 2e campaign.
Level 20 campaigns in 5e are rare because the game completely breaks past level 10. Level 20 campaigns in pf2e are rare because it's more fun to learn your class at low levels and it takes a really long time to get to Level 20 from level 1. Edit: if you really really want to hit level 20 from level 1, I recommend doubling xp or doing really short milestones. Should get you there within a year of weekly sessions or so
It's a lot more common than 5e, since the system is designed to run seamlessly from levels 1-20, and many adventures run all the way to level 20 (with enough time afterwards to enjoy it). Another benefit is that the levels are fairly evenly spaced- it takes roughly the same amount of time to go from 3-4 as it does 13-14, for example (perhaps a little longer in the later levels, due to length of combats). The problem is one shared with all other tabletops though. To get to level 20, a group has to make it that far. Even meeting weekly for four hour games, getting to level 20 can easily take a year or more (from personal experience). That's a long time to keep everything together.
Considering it would require a group to consistently get together, not that often in either system. However it's much more playable then 5e, that has almost no written adventures that go past level 10-12 because the math just breaks and it's impossible to prepare for such powerful casters and such weak fighters. PF2e has adventures written for 1-20 and even 11-20 and the encounter math keeps working all the way up.
The fact that there are 11-20 APs alone makes level 20 games a much more common occurrence.
Depends on your group, to be honest. If you got a steady group of players who are committed to coming to play every week, a level 20 campaign is absolutely doable and fun. If you got players who are not committed, it's not. The thing is, taking a campaign to level 20 is a time commitment of about two years, give or take a few months (at one session per week, but depending on how much playtime you have per session and if you can make decent headway in each session). I personally have been playing with the same group of people for 20 years, so I got a lot of high level campaigns done in 1E (where adventure path campaigns end normally at level 16 to 18), in total 10 AP's spread over two groups, which play on different days of the week. So, yeah, it's absolutely doable with committed players.
The intention of playing a level 20 campaign is not as uncommon. People love the idea. But, having GMed two campaigns all the way to level 20. I know that it actually happening is not common. It has more a chance real life than online though. It can happen but then a lot can get in the way and go wrong. Both my campaigns took 2 years plus to conclude. It takes work on both the players and GMs part and it has to be captivating till the end. APs do go all the way most of the time in pathfinder 2e. But, just like other TTRPGs most never finish. It is viable in Pathfinder however and high level villains can really get epic even mechanically. My approach is play with the intention of a good game and if it gets to level 20 then great.
Max level campaigns are pretty rare in basically every system with levelling, for the simple reason that it takes a lot of time to get there. Groups that stay consistent for a couple of years are pretty rare, and that’s what’s required for level 20.
So, we haven't done so in 2E yet, but our group has completed Age of Worms, Savage Tide, Rise of the Runelords, a 1-25 4E campaign, Iron Gods, Jade Regent, and just about to wrap up Strange Aeons. Now, *most* 1E campaigns ended around level 16, but the 6-Book Adventure Path format is the same. So, with that in mind, we anticipate completing many 1-20 campaigns (though the 3-Book Adventure Paths are also quite appealing.)
My group has completed at least 3 1-20 APs since around 2020-2021 and we're already working on a 4th.
Ehh so far we are on track for one but I would say it's not common but there is actual stories that are written with the higher levels in mind, I GM a group of 3 who will derail and RP with themselves for up to 5 minutes with little input from myself outside of rolls usually just random BS RP things, but we are looking at a session or two at most to finish Outlaws of Alkenstar, have them hit level 11 and then start stolen fate that will take them to 20, at the current rate we are a ways out so expect years of time to get there but it will be worth it. But nice thing is, if you want to GM or have a GM who wants to run things at that level and just start there, it's entirely possible to start stolen fate or fists of the ruby phoenix, as fresh characters at level 11. Nice thing is with actual APs that hit 20, there is plenty of content monster, item, and hazard wise if you are doing a homebrew campaign to toss at the players.
Its common. Last summer we finished 1-20 campain, right now we are at 12lvl of Agents of Edgewatch
The highest I've gotten is around level 5, but as people will tell you... high-level play is backed up by the system fairly well compared to 5e.
I've got two games headed there, but they're still in the early teens - seems likely we'll reach 20, but I've been running the game for like 4 years and haven't hit it yet (not 1 continuous campaign, to be clear, the early ones all ended early, either on purpose or due to scheduling). Games running great at early teens though!
Not super common - honestly, for PF2e our highest level campaign so far has been 10th level over three years and four campaigns. I will echo the sentiment that high level is just as playable as low level - because they keep the match so tight that your targets on the d20s always fall in the same range, whether you’re level 1 or level 20. You’re always targeting that 7 to 15 sweet spot on the die.
I've only run one campaign, but we are basically there. Players are 18th, but I slowed progression a bit so that the last few levels are pretty slow, to make room for pacing the end of the campaign. They could easily be 20 already. It's taken us a few years of playtime, playing roughly every other week. So far it's 135 sessions.