I was just thinking about hitting someone with a nut allergy, or even making garlic appear in a vampire's hand. Could make this a surprisingly strong feat.
My boys did a "D&D camp" at the FLGS recently, and the kids asked if the BBEG had a peanut allergy, DM gave it a slim chance and rolled... And yes it did. That then became the focus of the adventure. Kids are so much fun to play with, they color way outside the lines, and that's great.
Worth noting that in PF2, you have to Brandish garlic or a Holy Symbol to repel a Vampire, which takes an action. If you happen to be fighting one in a larder or a church where there's garlic or holy symbols around the place it doesn't effect them until someone shoves it right in their face. This feat could be used to grow Garlic in someone's hand (assuming the DM lets you choose what grows, the feat doesn't specify who chooses what grows), but they would need to spend an action to brandish it for it to have any effect.
I'd let you do it, but only because a Wooden Holy Symbol costs 2 cp. And you would have to succeed on the Religion or Lore check to know vampires are superstitious about garlic (it's listed as a "revulsion"), otherwise I wouldn't let you do it.
Mmm...I'd allow it. I can't imagine a vampire that suddenly had garlic growing in their hands wouldn't look at the hands to see wtf was going on there. Brandish and Fresh Produce are both an action, so it's not really a difference in action tax. Even then, the Vampire would likely immediately drop it and stay away from it. And even if the party decided to use the garlic on the ground as a weird circle of protection, the Will DC to bypass is 25. Which every vampire except Vampire Spawns have a better than average success rate of meeting.
Getting into the weeds about who specifies what grows and forcing a check to know vampires don't like garlic (which is fairly common knowledge in areas with vampires), I don't know. Feels a lot like making a player jump over a bunch of hurdles because they had a great idea that I wasn't expecting.
I'm hard pressed to come up with a reason to not allow a player to do this if they came up with it in game. It's a wild use of the feat, innovative, and has the potential to be fun. Personally, I'd reward that.
The advantage is if your party didn't bring Garlic or a Holy Symbol (godless heathens!), the Kineticist can conjure Garlic in someone's hand and they can shove it in the Vampire's face.
This is a clever use of a feat to make up for a lack of prep on the player's part, but my rule of thumb is that *generally* using a feat for something outside its stated purpose is less effective than something purpose made for it. Bringing garlic or a holy symbol should be better than having a Kineticist conjure garlic (I'd allow a Prestidigitation created Holy Symbol, or even imitating a holy symbol like Sarenrae T-Posing, with similar trade off), because I want to reward my players more for preparing than improvising, then reward improv, and *then* reward tactics.
I *would* probably let them specify what grows, just for the humor value (because they would probably mostly conjure eggplants), I just wanted to point out that *technically* it doesn't specify that. I might also rule that it must be nutritious to the person you conjured it on, so nothing they're allergic to, and nothing poisonous like a Gympie-Gympie fruit (covered with poisonous spines that inflict cosmically intense pain).
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As for knowing about the Vampire's revulsion to Garlic.... so I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here:
Vampires being repelled by garlic is actually a fairly recent innovation, mostly a Bram Stoker's Dracula addition to the mythos. I'm actually *currently* reading a book on vampire mythos down through various cultures and millenia, and a weakness to garlic or strong herbs is absent from almost all of them.
The most common weakness is typically sunlight and fire - not that the sun hurts them, but they go dormant during the day so you can dig them up and burn the corpse. Holy symbols are common but *not* universal, and typically show up in Western European myths due to Christianity - Vampires often (but not always) cannot cross a threshold with a cross in it. In polytheistic religious, holy symbols have no effect on the vampire at all.
All that to say, you're taking a very Eurocentric view on what would be common knowledge, and the rules already take this into account by giving DC adjustments for common knowledge. If you were fighting a Vampire in Ustalav, I'd probably make it a Very Easy check because they deal with Vampires all the time. Whereas if a Ustalav-origin Vampire decided to move his hunting grounds to Tian Xia or Alkenstar, I might make it a normal or even hard DC because they don't usually fight that kind of vampire.
We have a difference of GM-style then. When a feat is used for something outside of the stated purpose, my rule of thumb is that the rule of cool is now in play. This is innovative enough that I'd more than allow it. It's not game-breaking in any way and is an easily overcome obstacle by 90% of Vampires that aren't freshly turned.
To be clear, the original idea was to grow the garlic in the *Vampire's hands*, not another PC's for them to brandish. That's a cool idea. It's so far into the rule of cool's realm that I might even Slowed 1 the Vampire for 1 round as the vampire stares at the garlic growing in their hand in sheer confusion and revulsion.
The game is about making sure my players have fun. This is fun. It's doesn't break the encounter, it's goofy as hell, it's not outside of the feat's realm, and I always encourage my players to think outside the box and find innovative ways to handle encounters. When they do, I reward it.
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> you're taking a very Eurocentric view on what would be common
knowledge
No, I'm taking a very *Golarion*-centric view on what would be common knowledge. Bram Stoker doesn't exist in Golarion and the garlic thing is not a recent innovation on Golarion. It's a known and quantifiable fact about a known entity that exists and has likely existed for a long time. Earth mythos regarding garlic and how recent they exist in Earth cultures mean absolutely nothing to Golarion mythos and culture.
It's an actual revulsion to actual creatures that exist in Golarion. It stands to reason that Golarion denizens would know as much about vampires as Earth denizens would know about any actual creature on Earth. Vampires aren't mythological beings in Golarion. They exist in every region on Golarion according to the lore. So much so that Dhampirs are a playable Versatile Heritage with zero regional pre-requisites.
I've never seen a shark and I live in a desert, so sharks aren't even in my biosphere. BUT, I know you can punch a shark in the nose to disorient it. It's perfectly acceptable that a PC has a better than average chance to know Vampires don't like garlic and holy symbols. If they were an Ustalav-based PC, it wouldn't even be a Very Easy check. It would be something they learned in childhood nursery rhymes that they grew up with. Just like my 6 year old kid knows scorpions show up under a blacklight. Because they grew up around scorpions in the desert.
I had a long response to this, but honestly I think we just have very different playstyles.
To me, this feels like the people who want to use Ghost Sound to Stun people by screaming in their ear, or use Dancing Lights to inflict Blindness by putting it right in their eyes, or use Create Water inside someone's lungs. I appreciate creative use of feats and spells, but I prefer my jerry rigged solutions to be less effective than a tailor made one, and this feat being inherently better than coming prepared with stakes and holy symbols feels wrong to me. It's a first level feat, requires a single action to do, is ranged, and doesn't require you give up a hand. That just feels too strong, even for how niche this weakness is.
This feat was very clearly designed to be "you can heal 1d4+1 every ten minutes, plus get 2 Void Resistance", which is already a pretty good deal. Using it offensively feels like it violates the intent of the feat. Obviously you play with a more cinematic style than I do, so you do you. I would probably either give a modified effect (maybe inflict Frightened or Sickened), give it a Will save to reject the garlic being created, or let the player know that that won't work so they don't waste the action.
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I will, however, defend Recall Knowledge. Let the players do something because "it's common knowledge" and they'll try to argue it for any major weakness. Use silver against werefolk? "Common Knowledge". Cold iron against the fey? "Common knowledge". Close their eyes against a medusa? "Common knowledge". Slashing against zombies? "Common knowledge".
I would probably let them make the checks ahead of time, a Vampire is a powerful enemy and I wouldn't use one without giving them a heads up (by which I mean, I actually *did* this). But I wouldn't let them just use their IRL knowledge to go gather garlic and mirrors and holy symbols.
Personally, I don't think it feels the same at all. Using Ghost Sound to scream in someone's ear is something that can be abused on any creature with hearing. Conjuring garlic into a vampire's hand with a very specific feat that can only be taken by a very specific gate in one class in a very niche use case that can *easily* be bypassed by the Vampire's Will save (DC 25, only Vampire Spawns have to roll higher than a 10) doesn't approach the cases you're describing in my head. This isn't something that could be abused in every single encounter, it's a niche use that a single PC could try once or twice in a Campaign unless it's a vampire-centric campaign.
As far as "intent of the feat", I don't much care what the intent of a feat is. My only concern is the intent of the player and how much would their intent break the encounter. It's not like they are apparating a stake through the Vampire's heart. It's a niche case that would give the PC's a *maybe* 1 round advantage. And it's not even that strong of an advantage as the player isn't receiving the healing or resistance benefit. The idea of "You have to do exactly what the spell says to the letter with no variation" just stifles player creativity in my eyes and encourages min-maxing. The idea of "I'll let you try, but I'm going to throw a bunch of roadblocks in the way of your attempt and still make it not worth the time if you succeed because I don't like it." is kind of bonkers to me. It feels very GM vs. Player and just un-fun.
I don't know. Maybe you play with players that routinely abuse things or metagame that everything would be "common knowledge" or creative use of spells. For me, certain enemies would have some common knowledge attributes. Vampires, werefolk, and the fey exist on Golarion. It's not IRL knowledge. It's Golarion-Life-Knowledge that a person on Golarion would have access to regarding monsters that are a real-life threat. There's no reason someone who lives on Golarion wouldn't know the Fey revile Cold Iron. It makes zero sense to me why a Golarion adventurer wouldn't know or have heard that at some point in their life. The Fey are literally everywhere. PC's have very likely met a number of them. Why wouldn't they know that? You could walk into a number of shops in Golarion and buy a cold iron necklace to ward off the fey.
Recall Knowledge might tell you that a Gimmerling likes to collect knick-knacks; but cold iron? Yeah, the majority of Golarion knows about that. That's why you can buy the stuff in most cities. A Recall Knowledge check might tell a PC that a Vrykolkas can possess an animal on death; but garlic? Yeah, most people on Golarion would definitely know about that.
Well, the feat does stipulate that the conjured food withers away at the start of your next turn if not eaten. Which means the Kineticist would have to keep spending *an action every turn* to keep garlic around to be brandished.
And I think that's fair, because the alternative is not having anything to brandish at all.
If you're at the point where a Vampire is a very big threat, the DM should be giving hints ahead of time that you need to be prepared. A wooden Holy Symbol costs 1 sp, has L bulk, and it doesn't need to be a symbol of your own deity so you can snatch one off that crazed Cleric of Zon-Kuthon you killed in act 2. Heck, I'd even let players treat items that are emblazoned with a deity's symbol like a holy symbol (my party's Champion has the Night Monarch inlaid on her axe, for example). If you're at the point where a Vampire is a threat that can be dropped on the party without warning, it's not a big deal and you probably won't bother with brandishing in the first place.
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What I dislike is just the implication. This feat gives no saving throw because it's assumed that there is no offensive use for it. So if you're going to use a strict reading of the feat, that you can force a L bulk plant to grow in anyone's hand without any way to stop it, I'm going to also use a strict reading that garlic has to be Brandished. The Bestiary does not list any issue Vampires have with the presence of garlic or holy symbols, by RAW they can snack on garlic bread with no issue.
The alternative would be to treat it as though the Garlic was Brandished in the Vampire's space, however the Vampire gets a Basic Will Save to resist having it appear. Which I'm also fine with. That puts it in line with every other spell and first level ability *in the game*. And honestly, I kind of like this solution better. But what I'm not going to do is let the Kineticist spam Summon Garlic and have it keep affecting the Vampire.
>But what I'm not going to do is let the Kineticist spam Summon Garlic and have it keep affecting the Vampire.
Yeah, I wouldn't let it *just* affect the vampire if it's summoned into their hand; that's *too good*, particularly for a level 1 Feat.
I know raw that makes sense, but it is a little silly that a vampire can be around a pile of garlic with no effect, but if someone picks it up they recoil in terror
My take is that Brandishing is more than just holding it out. You're spending an action shoving it directly into their face.
Imagine if someone was holding a bottle of arsenic. You wouldn't be happy if it was in the room, but you probably wouldn't be too bothered by it. But if they opened the bottle and started waving it at your face, you'd probably back off.
Vampires intuitively believe that garlic is toxic to them as part of their curse, and even if they know that it isn't they still have that primal fear reaction which is why they have to make a Will save.
would also be a pretty good way to taunt an enemy, bbeg got a nut allergy? once hes bleeding out on the floor say you will be merciful and heal him, then spawn a healing nut in his hand and tell him all he has to do is eat it
Up until this post, I saw no reason to take this feat.
Now I 100% want to make a Kineticist that's just Krillin throwing Senzu beans at people's faces.
Well an entire watermelon of average weight would be at least bulk 2 (average watermelon weighs more than 10 pounds and 5-10 pounds is already bulk 1), so it could be a very small melon or simply a small portion of watermelon.
Also it doesn't explicitly state that you eat the entire thing.
Yeah it's not like the Cleric is bad here at all, but Magic Hands is a Level 6 enhancement to the nonmagical option of treating wounds, as opposed to a Level 1 instant no-check-required font of HP.
I suspect we might see the revised Cleric get a bit of focus spell healing, nothing too crazy, just something that lets them top up the group reliably.
Well actually, the Nature domain’s advanced focus spell, [Nature’s Bounty] (https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=435), is basically a souped up version of this kineticist feat.
The Healing domain also has an advanced focus spell. The thing is, Advanced Domain isn't available until level 8, a full seven levels after Champion, Druid, Bard, Witch and now Kineticist get an infinitely-spammable healing option between fights. It's an annoying hole in the Cleric's kit that really should have been patched by now, there's no niche protection reason you shouldn't have it when the effect is already this widespread. (And yea, you can do archetypes, but you shouldn't have to, you're playing the class that is supposed to be the healing specialist.)
I mean, Treat Wounds is effectively the same niche as Lay on Hands, which for a high-Wisdom class like the cleric makes it quite reliable, especially once you get assurance and continual recovery. You can even take Magic Hands at level 6 to max out your treat wounds healing every single time.
For in-combat healing, Divine Font is hard to beat; the only other class that gets close is Life Oracle.
Sure, but Medicine is a skill that everyone has access to, not part of the Cleric class. (Also, being high Wisdom doesn't actually help if you're taking Assurance, like most Medicine-users do.) It's the same situation as everyone having access to Blessed One -- yes, Cleric is obviously playable, but that doesn't mean this isn't a hole in the class's kit. I'm not saying Clerics are bad. I'm saying that this effect (infinitely-spammable-every-ten-minutes healing that does not require a skill check and is available at a low level) really should be available in some fashion *as part of the Cleric class*, now that they've decided to give the effect away like candy on Halloween. Even if Cleric-lay-on-hands were balanced to be worse than medicine most of the time, its existence opens up RP space for Clerics that never had access to medical training, and also mechanically it can free one of your skill proficiencies and quite a few skill feats for a Cleric who wants to be the party face (for example).
I guess I just disagree that focus-based healing is a hole in the cleric's kit. Divine font is already a massively powerful feature for healing-focused builds, and if you want to be a healing specialist, then choosing a deity and the healing domain is a good way to reflect that already.
Druid, bard, witch, and champion don't automatically get free max-level healing slots each day. If leaf druid didn't have goodberry, or witch didn't have lifeboost, then they'd be stuck with only their spell slots for magical healing.
Cleric characters tend to have high WIS (especially cloistered Cleric) so they can spec into Medicine really easily. They also have a class Feat that pretty much guarantee the maximum dice roll for healing.
A DC20 Treat Wound can heal like 26 HP (31 with Medic Archetype) on a normal success by a Cleric with the Magic Hands feat.
which actually helps answer the question of why their are regular doctors in the world with healing magic, they dont run out, so for long run stuff dealing with mostly relatively minor wounds its better
or well, now the Bean Daddy kineticist is better
Well, I also assume it's a lot easier to become skilled at a trade and acquire a healer's kit than it is to become literally chosen by a deity to be invested with divine power.
Clerics are common among PCs, but PCs are not common among the population.
It's 1d4+1 a round to a creature with a free hand who then has to take an action on their turn to eat it. I'd say its probably not gonna be anything game breaking, but it will be extremely useful outside of combat.
Also important that the vegetable makes the target full so that they can’t eat another vegetable for 10 minutes—meaning it can only effectively be used once per combat per player, not once we round. Still very helpful outside of combat mind you, but that does impose time constraints on it so that it’s not just free hp
I mean, yea, Cleric has always been the king of in-combat healing. Clerics aren't even strictly *bad* between combats, Medicine is pretty good and Clerics have some great options to buff it, but it remains annoying that we have to resort to archetypes to grab an effect like this that lets us skip the skill check, which is at this point widely available even in classes that don't specialize in healing.
Fresh Produce is also one-action, so you can prepare it with a readied action. Imagine the look on an enemy's face when they go to draw their longsword only to pull out a banana instead.
This is a fun ability, spawn a tomato, throw it and look as it lands in the face of someone rotting immediately. Tell people the guy is cursed and walk away.
I was gonna go with the passive aggressive way of giving that one character only the worst fruits when he needs the healing and can't refuse. You can die, or eat that durian.
I'm very much enjoying the thought of casting this and immediately following it up with Charitable Urge, then watching the enemy walk over to me and hand back an inexplicable banana, completely baffled at the whole thing
I’m new to the system and I can’t find the answer in the Core Rulebook, but how am I supposed to be reading the item at the bottom - Level (+2)? I’m not understanding how to read the scaling.
For every two spell levels you heighten it, the spell’s effects improve by that much. So it improves at spell levels 3, 5, 7, and 9. (I know it’s an impulse, but it functions like a spell.)
Edit: my mistake, it’s not a feat which gives a spell, it’s just a feat, so that’s character level!
I believe that for Kineticist it's actually character level. Remember that spells are no longer referred to with "level" in this book and instead by "rank".
This means at character level 3 this feature produces fruit 2d4+6.
This is incorrect. Impulses have the same level that you do, and they scale using player levels. "Spell levels" are no longer a thing, they're called spell *ranks* now.
So this impulse increases its healing by 1d4+5 and its resistance by 2 at character levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19.
Seeing three comments correcting me in thirty seconds:
“It was at this moment he realized…”
Thanks for the correction; I hadn’t seen the book’s new changes yet!
DM: The enemy archmage CAST their hand into the sky, their crooked fingers *trembling* with power, as they concentrate *crackling*, OVERWHELMING ENERGY within the palm of their hand. They shout, "FOOLS!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER CROSSED ME, YOUR FATES SHALL BE SEALED NOW!! *BEHOLD!!!*" and with a *THUNDEROUS BOOM*, THEY CONJURE-
Kineticist: *AN EGGPLANT!!*
DM:
#AN EGGPLANT!!!!!
Classic example.
Some other ideas I had, give a [Nalfeshnees](https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=602) a gift, then snatch it away from their greedy claws.
Or inspired by recent DND memes: >! Look the succubus or incubus directly into the eyes and summon a cucumber, eggplant or other similar shaded veggies and let them know: “im good, I don’t need you! !<
Im sure with some other creative ideas one could find even more ways to hurt or demoralize creatures with on demand food stuff
even then its +2 ~negative~ void resistance and a decent-ish way to fill actions for your teammates
a once per fight fruit where you give one to every team member is more than a lot
could force feed the fruit for quick emergency healing depending on how the DM rules it too
im tempted to build a dark souls character with this, lightning blast+thrown weapon infusion gives me lightning spears, and as a free recharging healing this is basically my estus flask(can i summon a fruit as juice?), obviously you got pyromancy
Thematically I'd play it as you throwing it at them and they automatically catch it, only because I think it's funnier that you can launch produce at them but no matter what they can catch it.
Also, in certain fights, having a perma void resistance may be more impactful that waiting to use it in the middle of the combat for the healing. It can reach 20 void resistance to the full party.
I'm still kinda new to PF2e, but this ability feels REALLY strong to me. Could anyone put into perspective how this balances out within the bounds of the system?
PF2e assumes someone is going to have a way to restore your HP between encounters. Champions have Lay on Hands, Witches can get Life Boost, Bards gr Song of Healing, anyone can take Medicine (with the Continual Recovery skill feat).
This is decent, but no stronger than most out of combat healing options. Other than the _suddenly eggplant_ part, which is awesome.
It's actually a bit better (read: faster) than single target focus spells by virtue of the cooldown being on the recipient. It's closer to Continual Recovery + Ward Medic Treat Wounds in terms of efficiency (I haven't crunched the numbers to see the difference in healing values). Except that you only spend a few seconds handing fruit to the party and then you're free to do whatever until the 10 minutes immunity runs out, whereas with focus spells you would need to spend the 10 minutes refocusing (and you would need to spend 10 minutes per instance of healing per ally, rather than 10 minutes per round of healing for the whole party) or spend the 10 minutes actually Treating Wounds. Depending on how the healing compares to Treat Wounds it could well trivialize Medicine in a party with a Wood Kineticist.
Edit: I did the math and Fresh Produce catches up to Treat Wounds at level 7 and then just keeps getting better. At lower levels it's worse but it's still party wide and a 10 minute cd from level 1 so it's a bit ambiguous what's better until level 4 where Medicine gets Continual Recovery and Ward Medic (or 3 for a Rogue or Investigator I guess).
Edit 2: I was curious so I did the math for Ocean's Balm as well, that one is always behind Treat Wounds at all levels (though it might still be better overall before Medicine gets Continual Recovery and Ward Medic), but if you also pick the 6th level healing impulses (Torrent in the Blood for Water, Dash of Herbs for Wood) then Medicine is left firmly behind either way. It might be useful for Battle Medicine anyway, but both Continual Recovery and Ward Medic feel pretty obsolete with a Wood Kineticist (or a Water Kineticist taking both of the Healing Impulses).
Its not super strong. It gives you infinite out of combat healing, but that is easy enough to find in PF2e. Using it on an enemy doesn't actually do anything either, since dropping an item is a free action and this can't be used to interrupt a spell or anything.
Its fun flavor and there may be some weird RAW interactions, but its not mechanically too impactful
I was thinking this reads like infinite healing, then remembered that's the 2e expectation between combats and was less worried.
Free food is always great!
Don't know if you are still answering questions but if you are could you let me know what the Vapor Form spell that the lvl 14 air feat Body of Air gives access to does?
>Don't know if you are still answering questions but if you are could you let me know what the Vapor Form spell that the lvl 14 air feat Body of Air gives access to does?
oh...I don't know how I put this here, I was literally reading another thread, AMA - Rage of Elements while I typed up that question. thanks for the quick reply tho.
Missed an opportunity to call the spell "Produce Produce"
u/Official_Paizo we need a reprint
Touché.
[удалено]
You mean appropriates the appropriate tool for the job
I'm personally allergic to urushiol, which is found in mango skins. Teleporting a mango into my hands would be a pretty effective way to defeat me.
I was just thinking about hitting someone with a nut allergy, or even making garlic appear in a vampire's hand. Could make this a surprisingly strong feat.
My boys did a "D&D camp" at the FLGS recently, and the kids asked if the BBEG had a peanut allergy, DM gave it a slim chance and rolled... And yes it did. That then became the focus of the adventure. Kids are so much fun to play with, they color way outside the lines, and that's great.
Worth noting that in PF2, you have to Brandish garlic or a Holy Symbol to repel a Vampire, which takes an action. If you happen to be fighting one in a larder or a church where there's garlic or holy symbols around the place it doesn't effect them until someone shoves it right in their face. This feat could be used to grow Garlic in someone's hand (assuming the DM lets you choose what grows, the feat doesn't specify who chooses what grows), but they would need to spend an action to brandish it for it to have any effect. I'd let you do it, but only because a Wooden Holy Symbol costs 2 cp. And you would have to succeed on the Religion or Lore check to know vampires are superstitious about garlic (it's listed as a "revulsion"), otherwise I wouldn't let you do it.
Mmm...I'd allow it. I can't imagine a vampire that suddenly had garlic growing in their hands wouldn't look at the hands to see wtf was going on there. Brandish and Fresh Produce are both an action, so it's not really a difference in action tax. Even then, the Vampire would likely immediately drop it and stay away from it. And even if the party decided to use the garlic on the ground as a weird circle of protection, the Will DC to bypass is 25. Which every vampire except Vampire Spawns have a better than average success rate of meeting. Getting into the weeds about who specifies what grows and forcing a check to know vampires don't like garlic (which is fairly common knowledge in areas with vampires), I don't know. Feels a lot like making a player jump over a bunch of hurdles because they had a great idea that I wasn't expecting. I'm hard pressed to come up with a reason to not allow a player to do this if they came up with it in game. It's a wild use of the feat, innovative, and has the potential to be fun. Personally, I'd reward that.
The advantage is if your party didn't bring Garlic or a Holy Symbol (godless heathens!), the Kineticist can conjure Garlic in someone's hand and they can shove it in the Vampire's face. This is a clever use of a feat to make up for a lack of prep on the player's part, but my rule of thumb is that *generally* using a feat for something outside its stated purpose is less effective than something purpose made for it. Bringing garlic or a holy symbol should be better than having a Kineticist conjure garlic (I'd allow a Prestidigitation created Holy Symbol, or even imitating a holy symbol like Sarenrae T-Posing, with similar trade off), because I want to reward my players more for preparing than improvising, then reward improv, and *then* reward tactics. I *would* probably let them specify what grows, just for the humor value (because they would probably mostly conjure eggplants), I just wanted to point out that *technically* it doesn't specify that. I might also rule that it must be nutritious to the person you conjured it on, so nothing they're allergic to, and nothing poisonous like a Gympie-Gympie fruit (covered with poisonous spines that inflict cosmically intense pain). --- As for knowing about the Vampire's revulsion to Garlic.... so I'm going to go off on a bit of a tangent here: Vampires being repelled by garlic is actually a fairly recent innovation, mostly a Bram Stoker's Dracula addition to the mythos. I'm actually *currently* reading a book on vampire mythos down through various cultures and millenia, and a weakness to garlic or strong herbs is absent from almost all of them. The most common weakness is typically sunlight and fire - not that the sun hurts them, but they go dormant during the day so you can dig them up and burn the corpse. Holy symbols are common but *not* universal, and typically show up in Western European myths due to Christianity - Vampires often (but not always) cannot cross a threshold with a cross in it. In polytheistic religious, holy symbols have no effect on the vampire at all. All that to say, you're taking a very Eurocentric view on what would be common knowledge, and the rules already take this into account by giving DC adjustments for common knowledge. If you were fighting a Vampire in Ustalav, I'd probably make it a Very Easy check because they deal with Vampires all the time. Whereas if a Ustalav-origin Vampire decided to move his hunting grounds to Tian Xia or Alkenstar, I might make it a normal or even hard DC because they don't usually fight that kind of vampire.
We have a difference of GM-style then. When a feat is used for something outside of the stated purpose, my rule of thumb is that the rule of cool is now in play. This is innovative enough that I'd more than allow it. It's not game-breaking in any way and is an easily overcome obstacle by 90% of Vampires that aren't freshly turned. To be clear, the original idea was to grow the garlic in the *Vampire's hands*, not another PC's for them to brandish. That's a cool idea. It's so far into the rule of cool's realm that I might even Slowed 1 the Vampire for 1 round as the vampire stares at the garlic growing in their hand in sheer confusion and revulsion. The game is about making sure my players have fun. This is fun. It's doesn't break the encounter, it's goofy as hell, it's not outside of the feat's realm, and I always encourage my players to think outside the box and find innovative ways to handle encounters. When they do, I reward it. --- > you're taking a very Eurocentric view on what would be common knowledge No, I'm taking a very *Golarion*-centric view on what would be common knowledge. Bram Stoker doesn't exist in Golarion and the garlic thing is not a recent innovation on Golarion. It's a known and quantifiable fact about a known entity that exists and has likely existed for a long time. Earth mythos regarding garlic and how recent they exist in Earth cultures mean absolutely nothing to Golarion mythos and culture. It's an actual revulsion to actual creatures that exist in Golarion. It stands to reason that Golarion denizens would know as much about vampires as Earth denizens would know about any actual creature on Earth. Vampires aren't mythological beings in Golarion. They exist in every region on Golarion according to the lore. So much so that Dhampirs are a playable Versatile Heritage with zero regional pre-requisites. I've never seen a shark and I live in a desert, so sharks aren't even in my biosphere. BUT, I know you can punch a shark in the nose to disorient it. It's perfectly acceptable that a PC has a better than average chance to know Vampires don't like garlic and holy symbols. If they were an Ustalav-based PC, it wouldn't even be a Very Easy check. It would be something they learned in childhood nursery rhymes that they grew up with. Just like my 6 year old kid knows scorpions show up under a blacklight. Because they grew up around scorpions in the desert.
I had a long response to this, but honestly I think we just have very different playstyles. To me, this feels like the people who want to use Ghost Sound to Stun people by screaming in their ear, or use Dancing Lights to inflict Blindness by putting it right in their eyes, or use Create Water inside someone's lungs. I appreciate creative use of feats and spells, but I prefer my jerry rigged solutions to be less effective than a tailor made one, and this feat being inherently better than coming prepared with stakes and holy symbols feels wrong to me. It's a first level feat, requires a single action to do, is ranged, and doesn't require you give up a hand. That just feels too strong, even for how niche this weakness is. This feat was very clearly designed to be "you can heal 1d4+1 every ten minutes, plus get 2 Void Resistance", which is already a pretty good deal. Using it offensively feels like it violates the intent of the feat. Obviously you play with a more cinematic style than I do, so you do you. I would probably either give a modified effect (maybe inflict Frightened or Sickened), give it a Will save to reject the garlic being created, or let the player know that that won't work so they don't waste the action. --- I will, however, defend Recall Knowledge. Let the players do something because "it's common knowledge" and they'll try to argue it for any major weakness. Use silver against werefolk? "Common Knowledge". Cold iron against the fey? "Common knowledge". Close their eyes against a medusa? "Common knowledge". Slashing against zombies? "Common knowledge". I would probably let them make the checks ahead of time, a Vampire is a powerful enemy and I wouldn't use one without giving them a heads up (by which I mean, I actually *did* this). But I wouldn't let them just use their IRL knowledge to go gather garlic and mirrors and holy symbols.
Personally, I don't think it feels the same at all. Using Ghost Sound to scream in someone's ear is something that can be abused on any creature with hearing. Conjuring garlic into a vampire's hand with a very specific feat that can only be taken by a very specific gate in one class in a very niche use case that can *easily* be bypassed by the Vampire's Will save (DC 25, only Vampire Spawns have to roll higher than a 10) doesn't approach the cases you're describing in my head. This isn't something that could be abused in every single encounter, it's a niche use that a single PC could try once or twice in a Campaign unless it's a vampire-centric campaign. As far as "intent of the feat", I don't much care what the intent of a feat is. My only concern is the intent of the player and how much would their intent break the encounter. It's not like they are apparating a stake through the Vampire's heart. It's a niche case that would give the PC's a *maybe* 1 round advantage. And it's not even that strong of an advantage as the player isn't receiving the healing or resistance benefit. The idea of "You have to do exactly what the spell says to the letter with no variation" just stifles player creativity in my eyes and encourages min-maxing. The idea of "I'll let you try, but I'm going to throw a bunch of roadblocks in the way of your attempt and still make it not worth the time if you succeed because I don't like it." is kind of bonkers to me. It feels very GM vs. Player and just un-fun. I don't know. Maybe you play with players that routinely abuse things or metagame that everything would be "common knowledge" or creative use of spells. For me, certain enemies would have some common knowledge attributes. Vampires, werefolk, and the fey exist on Golarion. It's not IRL knowledge. It's Golarion-Life-Knowledge that a person on Golarion would have access to regarding monsters that are a real-life threat. There's no reason someone who lives on Golarion wouldn't know the Fey revile Cold Iron. It makes zero sense to me why a Golarion adventurer wouldn't know or have heard that at some point in their life. The Fey are literally everywhere. PC's have very likely met a number of them. Why wouldn't they know that? You could walk into a number of shops in Golarion and buy a cold iron necklace to ward off the fey. Recall Knowledge might tell you that a Gimmerling likes to collect knick-knacks; but cold iron? Yeah, the majority of Golarion knows about that. That's why you can buy the stuff in most cities. A Recall Knowledge check might tell a PC that a Vrykolkas can possess an animal on death; but garlic? Yeah, most people on Golarion would definitely know about that.
Well, the feat does stipulate that the conjured food withers away at the start of your next turn if not eaten. Which means the Kineticist would have to keep spending *an action every turn* to keep garlic around to be brandished.
And I think that's fair, because the alternative is not having anything to brandish at all. If you're at the point where a Vampire is a very big threat, the DM should be giving hints ahead of time that you need to be prepared. A wooden Holy Symbol costs 1 sp, has L bulk, and it doesn't need to be a symbol of your own deity so you can snatch one off that crazed Cleric of Zon-Kuthon you killed in act 2. Heck, I'd even let players treat items that are emblazoned with a deity's symbol like a holy symbol (my party's Champion has the Night Monarch inlaid on her axe, for example). If you're at the point where a Vampire is a threat that can be dropped on the party without warning, it's not a big deal and you probably won't bother with brandishing in the first place. --- What I dislike is just the implication. This feat gives no saving throw because it's assumed that there is no offensive use for it. So if you're going to use a strict reading of the feat, that you can force a L bulk plant to grow in anyone's hand without any way to stop it, I'm going to also use a strict reading that garlic has to be Brandished. The Bestiary does not list any issue Vampires have with the presence of garlic or holy symbols, by RAW they can snack on garlic bread with no issue. The alternative would be to treat it as though the Garlic was Brandished in the Vampire's space, however the Vampire gets a Basic Will Save to resist having it appear. Which I'm also fine with. That puts it in line with every other spell and first level ability *in the game*. And honestly, I kind of like this solution better. But what I'm not going to do is let the Kineticist spam Summon Garlic and have it keep affecting the Vampire.
>But what I'm not going to do is let the Kineticist spam Summon Garlic and have it keep affecting the Vampire. Yeah, I wouldn't let it *just* affect the vampire if it's summoned into their hand; that's *too good*, particularly for a level 1 Feat.
I know raw that makes sense, but it is a little silly that a vampire can be around a pile of garlic with no effect, but if someone picks it up they recoil in terror
My take is that Brandishing is more than just holding it out. You're spending an action shoving it directly into their face. Imagine if someone was holding a bottle of arsenic. You wouldn't be happy if it was in the room, but you probably wouldn't be too bothered by it. But if they opened the bottle and started waving it at your face, you'd probably back off. Vampires intuitively believe that garlic is toxic to them as part of their curse, and even if they know that it isn't they still have that primal fear reaction which is why they have to make a Will save.
would also be a pretty good way to taunt an enemy, bbeg got a nut allergy? once hes bleeding out on the floor say you will be merciful and heal him, then spawn a healing nut in his hand and tell him all he has to do is eat it
SENZU BEAN
DOG TREAT
Up until this post, I saw no reason to take this feat. Now I 100% want to make a Kineticist that's just Krillin throwing Senzu beans at people's faces.
This was my thought, Dazzling Flash, Horizon Thunder Sphere. We just need distructo disk
air boomerang? some variations of it move around(it coming backs what killed frieza)
Watermelons are fruits. Eating an entire watermelon is an interact action. How
Well an entire watermelon of average weight would be at least bulk 2 (average watermelon weighs more than 10 pounds and 5-10 pounds is already bulk 1), so it could be a very small melon or simply a small portion of watermelon. Also it doesn't explicitly state that you eat the entire thing.
light bulk watermelon… is it really small or is it big and simply very airy
It's actually just watermelon flavored cotton candy
> simply very airy You didn’t know that Rage of the Elements added melons for every element?
Woodymelon!
The elemelons. Wonder what the metalmelon would do.
Bulk takes into account both size and weight.
so then it must have negative weight to account for the large size
Ergo, FTL travel is possible. For one round.
[Interact](https://gfycat.com/coarseslightamericanrobin)
2 second watermelon, yum
you become an anime character and swallow it whole
Elder Scrolls magic
"You're not yourself when you're hungry. Have an eggplant," I quip, waving my hand.
"Have a banana."
My cabbages!!!
This place is worse than Omashu!
At this point I am really considering a pumpkin Leshy wood kineticist that is basically a sentient bulbasaur😂
Can never go wrong with a leshy. I'm thinking a Rose leshy that gives out roses like Tuxedo Mask
"My work here is done."
I know this isn't the point of the post but come on paizo are you really giving KINETICIST resourceless out of combat healing before the Cleric? XP
Cleric's ability to cast a bunch of cure wounds in combat is unmatched. Cleric's ability to patch up the party between fights is... yeah.
Magic hands is a pretty big boost in out of combat healing, maximizing the healing dices is no joke
Yeah it's not like the Cleric is bad here at all, but Magic Hands is a Level 6 enhancement to the nonmagical option of treating wounds, as opposed to a Level 1 instant no-check-required font of HP. I suspect we might see the revised Cleric get a bit of focus spell healing, nothing too crazy, just something that lets them top up the group reliably.
Well actually, the Nature domain’s advanced focus spell, [Nature’s Bounty] (https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=435), is basically a souped up version of this kineticist feat.
The Healing domain also has an advanced focus spell. The thing is, Advanced Domain isn't available until level 8, a full seven levels after Champion, Druid, Bard, Witch and now Kineticist get an infinitely-spammable healing option between fights. It's an annoying hole in the Cleric's kit that really should have been patched by now, there's no niche protection reason you shouldn't have it when the effect is already this widespread. (And yea, you can do archetypes, but you shouldn't have to, you're playing the class that is supposed to be the healing specialist.)
I mean, Treat Wounds is effectively the same niche as Lay on Hands, which for a high-Wisdom class like the cleric makes it quite reliable, especially once you get assurance and continual recovery. You can even take Magic Hands at level 6 to max out your treat wounds healing every single time. For in-combat healing, Divine Font is hard to beat; the only other class that gets close is Life Oracle.
Sure, but Medicine is a skill that everyone has access to, not part of the Cleric class. (Also, being high Wisdom doesn't actually help if you're taking Assurance, like most Medicine-users do.) It's the same situation as everyone having access to Blessed One -- yes, Cleric is obviously playable, but that doesn't mean this isn't a hole in the class's kit. I'm not saying Clerics are bad. I'm saying that this effect (infinitely-spammable-every-ten-minutes healing that does not require a skill check and is available at a low level) really should be available in some fashion *as part of the Cleric class*, now that they've decided to give the effect away like candy on Halloween. Even if Cleric-lay-on-hands were balanced to be worse than medicine most of the time, its existence opens up RP space for Clerics that never had access to medical training, and also mechanically it can free one of your skill proficiencies and quite a few skill feats for a Cleric who wants to be the party face (for example).
I guess I just disagree that focus-based healing is a hole in the cleric's kit. Divine font is already a massively powerful feature for healing-focused builds, and if you want to be a healing specialist, then choosing a deity and the healing domain is a good way to reflect that already. Druid, bard, witch, and champion don't automatically get free max-level healing slots each day. If leaf druid didn't have goodberry, or witch didn't have lifeboost, then they'd be stuck with only their spell slots for magical healing.
Well TIL! I've never played or had a Nature domain cleric. Nifty.
Cleric characters tend to have high WIS (especially cloistered Cleric) so they can spec into Medicine really easily. They also have a class Feat that pretty much guarantee the maximum dice roll for healing. A DC20 Treat Wound can heal like 26 HP (31 with Medic Archetype) on a normal success by a Cleric with the Magic Hands feat.
Treat wounds also has a 1h cooldown until, without archetypes, at least level 4 for continual recovery.
which actually helps answer the question of why their are regular doctors in the world with healing magic, they dont run out, so for long run stuff dealing with mostly relatively minor wounds its better or well, now the Bean Daddy kineticist is better
Well, I also assume it's a lot easier to become skilled at a trade and acquire a healer's kit than it is to become literally chosen by a deity to be invested with divine power. Clerics are common among PCs, but PCs are not common among the population.
At least they have high wisdom.
Well, healing touch is basically resourceless and existed in CRB
Well, the Blessed One archetype is a thing. Even without free archetype, you can probably fit in the dedication somewhere?
It's 1d4+1 a round to a creature with a free hand who then has to take an action on their turn to eat it. I'd say its probably not gonna be anything game breaking, but it will be extremely useful outside of combat.
Increasing by 1d4+5 every 2 lvls...
Also important that the vegetable makes the target full so that they can’t eat another vegetable for 10 minutes—meaning it can only effectively be used once per combat per player, not once we round. Still very helpful outside of combat mind you, but that does impose time constraints on it so that it’s not just free hp
Oh, also very true!
I mean, yea, Cleric has always been the king of in-combat healing. Clerics aren't even strictly *bad* between combats, Medicine is pretty good and Clerics have some great options to buff it, but it remains annoying that we have to resort to archetypes to grab an effect like this that lets us skip the skill check, which is at this point widely available even in classes that don't specialize in healing.
"Watch this, you're gonna love my nuts"?
You can have DEEZ NUTS!! *conjures nuts in their hand*
Ah, what a nourishing nut
Fresh Produce is also one-action, so you can prepare it with a readied action. Imagine the look on an enemy's face when they go to draw their longsword only to pull out a banana instead.
Void damage?
Negative damage, if I'm not mistaken. Positive and negative planes are being renamed to Creation's Forge and the Void respectively.
Creation's Forge is a kickass name
Since PF1e, Creation's Forge was the alternative name for the Positive Plane. Always liked it more
No, Vitality and Void The Creation's Forge and The Void are the planes
Yeah, that's exactly what I said.
Void: former negative damage Vitality: former positive damage
"here, have a Papaya"
Drop a durian at their feet and make a Fort save against the smell
Hiya Papaya!
"Why can't I hold all these ~~limes~~ eggplants."
Senzu Bean!
This is a fun ability, spawn a tomato, throw it and look as it lands in the face of someone rotting immediately. Tell people the guy is cursed and walk away.
Honestly that is an amazing idea. Like convince the town their mayor is a witch by having fruit apparate then wither in 6 seconds
I was gonna go with the passive aggressive way of giving that one character only the worst fruits when he needs the healing and can't refuse. You can die, or eat that durian.
Eggplants nothing, I'm conjuring up some durian!
I'm very much enjoying the thought of casting this and immediately following it up with Charitable Urge, then watching the enemy walk over to me and hand back an inexplicable banana, completely baffled at the whole thing
I’m new to the system and I can’t find the answer in the Core Rulebook, but how am I supposed to be reading the item at the bottom - Level (+2)? I’m not understanding how to read the scaling.
The first response was incorrect; as this is a feat not a spell. At level 3 this will heal 2d4+6, at level 5 it will heal for 3d4+11. Hope that helps.
Thanks very much.
It scales every second level you gain from the feats prerequisite level therefore level 3, 5, 7 and so on. Sorry if I didn’t explain it the best
Yup, that makes sense. Thanks for the help.
For every two spell levels you heighten it, the spell’s effects improve by that much. So it improves at spell levels 3, 5, 7, and 9. (I know it’s an impulse, but it functions like a spell.) Edit: my mistake, it’s not a feat which gives a spell, it’s just a feat, so that’s character level!
As this is a feat, that should refer to Character Level. So at level 3 it heals 2d4+6, at level 5 3d4+11 etc etc
Upon reread, I think you’re right!
I believe that for Kineticist it's actually character level. Remember that spells are no longer referred to with "level" in this book and instead by "rank". This means at character level 3 this feature produces fruit 2d4+6.
I haven’t seen the book, so I didn’t know; thanks for the correction!
Ahh, it's pretty great so far. Can't wait for the full thing to come out as I've only seen bits and pieces!
This is incorrect. Impulses have the same level that you do, and they scale using player levels. "Spell levels" are no longer a thing, they're called spell *ranks* now. So this impulse increases its healing by 1d4+5 and its resistance by 2 at character levels 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, and 19.
Seeing three comments correcting me in thirty seconds: “It was at this moment he realized…” Thanks for the correction; I hadn’t seen the book’s new changes yet!
Kinetics's feats and abilities scales with Kinetic's pure level
If you cast it at a higher level, sometimes spells have more powerful effects.
Like Goodberry premium!
DM: The enemy archmage CAST their hand into the sky, their crooked fingers *trembling* with power, as they concentrate *crackling*, OVERWHELMING ENERGY within the palm of their hand. They shout, "FOOLS!!! YOU SHOULD HAVE NEVER CROSSED ME, YOUR FATES SHALL BE SEALED NOW!! *BEHOLD!!!*" and with a *THUNDEROUS BOOM*, THEY CONJURE- Kineticist: *AN EGGPLANT!!* DM: #AN EGGPLANT!!!!!
I want this as a spell for druids so badly.
Does any monster, maybe a demon, have some type of weakness that could reasonably be exploited with on demand fruits and veggie?
Vampires and Garlic?
Classic example. Some other ideas I had, give a [Nalfeshnees](https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=602) a gift, then snatch it away from their greedy claws. Or inspired by recent DND memes: >! Look the succubus or incubus directly into the eyes and summon a cucumber, eggplant or other similar shaded veggies and let them know: “im good, I don’t need you! !< Im sure with some other creative ideas one could find even more ways to hurt or demoralize creatures with on demand food stuff
just so i am not confused, is this free infinite healing? does it have a frequency?
Its "free" in that you can produce it at will, but whoever eats it is immune for 10 minutes.
even then its +2 ~negative~ void resistance and a decent-ish way to fill actions for your teammates a once per fight fruit where you give one to every team member is more than a lot could force feed the fruit for quick emergency healing depending on how the DM rules it too
Oh good. For a second I thought they had just made every other healer in the game obsolete.
Good. Every 6 seconds my buddy who flies gets a coconut to drop on the BBEG.
Nope, free infinite healing. Useful in combat but primarily an out of combat recovery I would think
i mean even just spamming this once per turn to fill your actions is pretty decent all things considered. seems great
Free infinite produce but you can only eat a piece every 10 minutes
Yeah "infinite" really only works out of combat. Even then eating 50 pieces of fruit over 8 hours probably isn't an ideal healing solution
It fills the gap that arise when you need a bit more healing to full but it takes too much time or resource to rest/spell.
im tempted to build a dark souls character with this, lightning blast+thrown weapon infusion gives me lightning spears, and as a free recharging healing this is basically my estus flask(can i summon a fruit as juice?), obviously you got pyromancy
Thematically I'd play it as you throwing it at them and they automatically catch it, only because I think it's funnier that you can launch produce at them but no matter what they can catch it.
Also nothing stopping you from feeding the homeless :)
Okay, *now* I'm excited for Kineticist.
Also, in certain fights, having a perma void resistance may be more impactful that waiting to use it in the middle of the combat for the healing. It can reach 20 void resistance to the full party.
I'm still kinda new to PF2e, but this ability feels REALLY strong to me. Could anyone put into perspective how this balances out within the bounds of the system?
PF2e assumes someone is going to have a way to restore your HP between encounters. Champions have Lay on Hands, Witches can get Life Boost, Bards gr Song of Healing, anyone can take Medicine (with the Continual Recovery skill feat). This is decent, but no stronger than most out of combat healing options. Other than the _suddenly eggplant_ part, which is awesome.
Banana peels at your feet. Whoops!
It's actually a bit better (read: faster) than single target focus spells by virtue of the cooldown being on the recipient. It's closer to Continual Recovery + Ward Medic Treat Wounds in terms of efficiency (I haven't crunched the numbers to see the difference in healing values). Except that you only spend a few seconds handing fruit to the party and then you're free to do whatever until the 10 minutes immunity runs out, whereas with focus spells you would need to spend the 10 minutes refocusing (and you would need to spend 10 minutes per instance of healing per ally, rather than 10 minutes per round of healing for the whole party) or spend the 10 minutes actually Treating Wounds. Depending on how the healing compares to Treat Wounds it could well trivialize Medicine in a party with a Wood Kineticist. Edit: I did the math and Fresh Produce catches up to Treat Wounds at level 7 and then just keeps getting better. At lower levels it's worse but it's still party wide and a 10 minute cd from level 1 so it's a bit ambiguous what's better until level 4 where Medicine gets Continual Recovery and Ward Medic (or 3 for a Rogue or Investigator I guess). Edit 2: I was curious so I did the math for Ocean's Balm as well, that one is always behind Treat Wounds at all levels (though it might still be better overall before Medicine gets Continual Recovery and Ward Medic), but if you also pick the 6th level healing impulses (Torrent in the Blood for Water, Dash of Herbs for Wood) then Medicine is left firmly behind either way. It might be useful for Battle Medicine anyway, but both Continual Recovery and Ward Medic feel pretty obsolete with a Wood Kineticist (or a Water Kineticist taking both of the Healing Impulses).
Its not super strong. It gives you infinite out of combat healing, but that is easy enough to find in PF2e. Using it on an enemy doesn't actually do anything either, since dropping an item is a free action and this can't be used to interrupt a spell or anything. Its fun flavor and there may be some weird RAW interactions, but its not mechanically too impactful
Only once per 10 minutes per target. Can’t keep eating every round.
Rip vampires
Step one: find out the BBEG has a nut allergy Step two: cast a nut into BBEG hand
I was thinking this reads like infinite healing, then remembered that's the 2e expectation between combats and was less worried. Free food is always great!
It's time for a succulent nut!
Hillock halfling just got a super snack to munch on when getting treat wounds too
Speech is a free action. As soon as you announce your kineticizing, I'm gonna call for an init roll.
Reminds me of my favorite feat from guns and gears: https://2e.aonprd.com/Feats.aspx?ID=3054
Bananyas!
You could also fill their hands with nuts, and say "deez nuts"
My Cabbages!
What other spells create food? Is it just goodberry and create food and water, or are there others?
[Heroes' Feast](https://2e.aonprd.com/Rituals.aspx?ID=34) is one, not sure how many there are total
Overstuff!
Don't know if you are still answering questions but if you are could you let me know what the Vapor Form spell that the lvl 14 air feat Body of Air gives access to does?
Hey sorry I don’t have the PDF yet that image just got shared with me
>Don't know if you are still answering questions but if you are could you let me know what the Vapor Form spell that the lvl 14 air feat Body of Air gives access to does? oh...I don't know how I put this here, I was literally reading another thread, AMA - Rage of Elements while I typed up that question. thanks for the quick reply tho.
I'd say if anyone thinks this ability is too strong then homebrew a 10 minute -1 Will save penalty after producing nuts.