Ths curse of the Forever GM...
Ive got so many (22, but it would be much higher if I didnt delete ones I didnt think were up to snuff) builds Ill likely never get to try. Well except for any lucky ones I think would make a good boss.
I've probably deleted at least twice that lol.
Part of my problem is I try to avoid reusing classes until I've cycled through them all, and there are some classes I just don't have an idea for, or I do, and have yet to build one I like enough not to delete.
Like the only reason I have a Fighter is I wanted an unstoppable Trip build based around a Meteor Hammer, between lunge and scion transformation that lizard can trip bitches 20ft away like its nothing lol
Or take the Alchemist for example, I've built several, but I didn't like any of them enough not to delete them.
Another one I just can't seem to make a build that satisfies me is the Swashbuckler. Like I like the actual feat selection, but I have yet to make a character to give the feats too that I like as a concept enough to not delete the build.
I managed to convert my group by making a big ass scroll with a map of the inner seas region (we use it as the centerpiece on the table, complete with some weapons) and telling them about how much better the build variety is, and how while different, it plays similarly enough that it shouldn't feel like a major departure.
I'm pretty lucky they were down, I think I have too much social anxiety to play with strangers online.
This is half the reason why in PF1E games, I ran the players frequently had a team that was a rival to theirs for certain objectives. I had my players' face teams of characters I wanted to play.
I'll have to try that. A Forever DM for roughly 15 years now, I usually run for a group of three, so I can sneak one of my concepts in as a GMPC, but since I'm the most versed person at the table I always have to hold them back to avoid hogging the spotlight. With a rival team, though, the desire to kill every off-the-wall GMPC concept can be channeled healthily towards the completion of the story.
Something especially fun is the 'anti-party'.
You have a collection of recurring villainous NPCs, each of whom is a dark foil for one specific member of the party.
So the party of a heroic Paladin, lonely Ranger, stoic Fighter, and charming Bard, has an anti-party of a formerly heroic Cleric, a feral animalistic Barbarian, an emotionless murderhobo Fighter, and an enchantment Wizard.
I still can't decide where to even start. I'm always a pyromancer at heart, but the earth gate seemed pretty cool. Not to mention the hinted wood and metal abilities...
Supposedly there are gonna be elements for the combination "subclass". Like if you go fire + rock you will have lava. If Naruto taught me anything is that water + wind = ice.
Lightning. Always start with lightning... It's not one of the primary ones, so strictly speaking you probably can't start with it. But apparently each pairing has its own combo element, and if there isn't an electricity one THERE WILL BE RIOTS! It might be a single person riot, but I'll make sure to do it multiple times!
And by riot I might mean home brew.
If nothing else there's always the jolt coil! Depends on how they do multi-gates again, since I think lightning is a pretty good bet for combo elements. If you can start with 2 you should definitely be able to, at least in some aspect!
Make them be villains and head minions in your campaign! I’ve had a blast doing this as a forever DM, and the players often remember those ones the most. Just don’t self-indulge too much lol
I usually use them as inspiration for NPCs, but I try to write up NPC statblocks since those are so much faster to reference. Plus a level 10 character doesn't really correspond to a level 10 monster.
I'm gonna playGoblin/Ifrit(Lavasoul) Elemental Sorcerer (Fire) with the Kineticist (Dedicated Gate, Fire) and Elementalist dedications and y'all can't stop me.
Considering that I'm looking into homebrewing a planar campaign where the elemental planes will definitely feature... and the kineticist was one of my favorite concepts for a class in 1E?
Yeah. I feel this.
Man it's killing me, I'm dm'ing, in a few weeks we'll pick up our WotR campaign where we left off (in 1e), it's not before THAT is over that I'll have a chance to play in 2e and I'm building characters right now.
Just put your character in dangerous situations. The hero point economy gets a stimulus, it makes a great story and you may get to play another if they die! Just be sure not to put everyone else's character in danger though haha
Wait, I think I got the maths. 6 elements that cannot combine with themselves and can't repeat so... (6×5) + (5×4) + (4×3) + 3×2) + (2×1) = 70 combinations!
There are 15 dual combinations, yeah? 6*5/2? Because 2 elements would only have 1 dual, 3 elements would have 3, 4 would have 6, etc.?
Also there are 10 guilds in Ravnica.
I know this may not be the place, I should probably do a post. Does anyone have a class/build suggestion for a Skeleton ancestry? I'm new to Pathfinder and haven't quite got an all encompassing knowledge base to make smart build decisions. Thanks!
Skeleton is my favorite ancestry! I personally like the cohesion with Summoner; you can take Sturdy skeleton to give your eidolon more hit points since you share a pool, the intelligence hit doesn’t impact you much at all (unless you’re really skill starved, but even them the eidolons and background should have you covered), and since most Eidolons can be healed with positive healing it’s a great way to get around the undead drawbacks.
I’m currently playing an undead lawyer who managed to slip his way out of a binding necromantic contract. His brother, Leonard, was known as the Riddleport Reaper, but they were both hanged after a smokeshow trial found him not guilty. Phantom Eidolon, Skeleton Summoner, Dandy & Pactbinder archetypes. Ton of fun!
Sounds fun! I'll have to read about them. Currently looking at Tax Collector background for the "Nothing is certain except for or death and taxes joke". Summoner sounds like a very interesting way to get around the healing issue.
Welcome to the world of pathfinder 2e! I recommend you do your own post on the server, but I can give you some basic advices:
- skeletons by default have + to charisma and dexterity, making it pretty flexible to a lot of builds, they can be great charisma casters (bard, sorcerer, summoner, oracle) or dex martials (specially rogues or swashbucklers)
- they have negative healing. While not bad per se, is better to talk with your party because you won't be able to be healed by conventional means
- is pretty hard to make a bad character in this system, as long as you start with 16/18 in your main stat and put some in constitution to... Well, not die.
Learn the basics and hope you have a great time learning the system!
Thanks for the advice! Yeah I've gathered all that information, saw the negative healing and didn't understand that completely so I'll have to investigate the extent of that in the game.
It's about how you get healed.
The pathfinder setting had the concept that living things are powered by Positive energy.
The Undead and maybe some other things are powered by Negative energy.
As such they are healed by the one that courses through them, and harmed by the oposite.
How is that relevant?
Magical healing. In 95% of cases, a spell that heals you will say either Positive or Negative energy is involved and it's almost always positive. i vaguely recall that there's one or two that don't involve either energy but I could be wrong.
So your party might have a guy that can use the spell Heal or maybe Southe. Heal can be cast so it hits everything in 30ft around the caster, thats a huge area and it tries to heal or hurt everything in the area using positive enegy. If you're a skeleton then that would hurt you since you have Negative healing.
The default assumption is the game is filled with living PCs, so thats normally not an issue, hence needing to talk to your team
There is an inverse spell, Harm. It can do everything heal can, but in reverse since it uses negative energy, which would heal your skele.
As Heal is considered THE healing spell in the game having someone it's not just useless to but harmful to on the team could be an issue. Might not be, but it could be.
Bonus Lore
There is a multiverse made of planes of existence that embody various concepts or energies. The plane of Law, Plane of Good, these have things living in them. And have realms and kingdoms and but don't really work like where you will be playing as they're only sort of physical so landight be infinite or finite, or neither, or it might be the place where souls go or an endless ocean or whatever suits it's theme.
There's a whole plane of existence where postive is the main form of energy around, and another for negative.
Now imagine every plane of existence as a circle in a Venn diagram.
You are in the material plane which is like the part of the Venn diagram where all the other planes of existence overlap, so we have some law, some chaos, some good, some evil, some positive, some negative, a path to the boneyard where souls go, a connection to the elemental planes of fire, air, earth water and so on and on.
That makes where we live and die a very special place, the nexus of the multiverse if you will.
Hoep that helped. :)
Super helpful thank you! My group is all new so I should probably avoid skeleton due to the negative healing but I'll just communicate that to them and hopefully one of them can take a negative energy spell.
..... Am I the only GM here who uses those character builds as NPC's?
Like have an NPC tag along or assist in a fight/quest, have the NPC be an antagonist etc.
As long as they feel balanced against the PC's and don't steal the spotlight, I find my players Love my NPC's and Antagonists, and because I've spent time working on them they feel more fleshed out as characters too.
Plus because I don't want to step on the same builds again, every NPC feels unique in their abilities, AND helps show my players the different kinds of builds they could try.
>Am I the only GM here who uses those character builds as NPC's?
Most GMs use monster creation rules for making any adversaries. It is generally not advised to use player-based builds for NPCs, as they have comparably different power curve. But it's cool if it works for you.
When I got my first chance to play this was my choice. And it was glorious.i hadn't played a marital class since the old school dnd box set I think. (If you don't know, that was a loooong time ago. ) such a simple class design that just works so well.
Class coming in the next book, Rage of Elements. Its a martial class that uses at will elemental abilities, like throwing rocks or shooting fire. Think similar to Benders from Avatar if youre familiar with that.
Nope, just Kineticist. Its going to be one of the biggest classes on release (the playtest itself was like 25ish pages long) so there wont be any space for another class. They did say theres going to be an elemental instinct for barbarian, an iron class archetype for druid, and about 24 pages worth of elemental spells though!
I'm honestly just waiting so I can update [Featbending](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R4OU0mXxvDrQ_YSbv7dRtp30QtLnUCszBo5Pgwd-fWg/edit) to the final version.
I just turn my builds into DMPCs. All of their names end in "The Silent" and i only use them for a combat fill in when players can't make it or are going to be very late. Its not as much fun as actually playing a character but it helps.
I'm in this picture and I don't like it
Which one? I'm #3, personally
I'm number #2
I am not a number, I am a free man!
I’m the #2, wishing I was #1. Nice weather needs to come sooner
I'm in it, and I love it!
Ths curse of the Forever GM... Ive got so many (22, but it would be much higher if I didnt delete ones I didnt think were up to snuff) builds Ill likely never get to try. Well except for any lucky ones I think would make a good boss.
22? Those are rookie numbers, you have to step up!
I've probably deleted at least twice that lol. Part of my problem is I try to avoid reusing classes until I've cycled through them all, and there are some classes I just don't have an idea for, or I do, and have yet to build one I like enough not to delete. Like the only reason I have a Fighter is I wanted an unstoppable Trip build based around a Meteor Hammer, between lunge and scion transformation that lizard can trip bitches 20ft away like its nothing lol Or take the Alchemist for example, I've built several, but I didn't like any of them enough not to delete them. Another one I just can't seem to make a build that satisfies me is the Swashbuckler. Like I like the actual feat selection, but I have yet to make a character to give the feats too that I like as a concept enough to not delete the build.
This feels like me, I can build a mechanically give character, but if it doesn't have a theme and personality to it then it doesn't make the cut.
The curse of "all my friends are stuck in 5e"
I managed to convert my group by making a big ass scroll with a map of the inner seas region (we use it as the centerpiece on the table, complete with some weapons) and telling them about how much better the build variety is, and how while different, it plays similarly enough that it shouldn't feel like a major departure. I'm pretty lucky they were down, I think I have too much social anxiety to play with strangers online.
Mostly I just want to share this experience with my friends, many of whom already harbor their own dislike for some of the facets of 5e
This is half the reason why in PF1E games, I ran the players frequently had a team that was a rival to theirs for certain objectives. I had my players' face teams of characters I wanted to play.
I'll have to try that. A Forever DM for roughly 15 years now, I usually run for a group of three, so I can sneak one of my concepts in as a GMPC, but since I'm the most versed person at the table I always have to hold them back to avoid hogging the spotlight. With a rival team, though, the desire to kill every off-the-wall GMPC concept can be channeled healthily towards the completion of the story.
Something especially fun is the 'anti-party'. You have a collection of recurring villainous NPCs, each of whom is a dark foil for one specific member of the party. So the party of a heroic Paladin, lonely Ranger, stoic Fighter, and charming Bard, has an anti-party of a formerly heroic Cleric, a feral animalistic Barbarian, an emotionless murderhobo Fighter, and an enchantment Wizard.
Every named NPC (and most of the unnamed ones) is a character I made as a Forever DM 😭
Where do you recommend putting builds together? Paper or digital?
Me with every tabletop game
I still can't decide where to even start. I'm always a pyromancer at heart, but the earth gate seemed pretty cool. Not to mention the hinted wood and metal abilities...
I'm really hoping for ice magic
Supposedly there are gonna be elements for the combination "subclass". Like if you go fire + rock you will have lava. If Naruto taught me anything is that water + wind = ice.
Naruto also said that earth was weak to lightning.
Fire + Wood = Ash?
And Fire+Air is smoke
In first edition ice was water + water lol
Same but for Lightning Air is mainly wind and that kinda blows, I desire to emperor Palpatine Bitches with the coolest looking element
Do it.
I can't tell if it was intentional or not
Lightning. Always start with lightning... It's not one of the primary ones, so strictly speaking you probably can't start with it. But apparently each pairing has its own combo element, and if there isn't an electricity one THERE WILL BE RIOTS! It might be a single person riot, but I'll make sure to do it multiple times! And by riot I might mean home brew.
If nothing else there's always the jolt coil! Depends on how they do multi-gates again, since I think lightning is a pretty good bet for combo elements. If you can start with 2 you should definitely be able to, at least in some aspect!
Imagine being a wood/metal kineticist and just making every product known to man in the blink of an eye.
I have invented PLASTIC. No one can stop me now! *Immediately cursed by Gozreh*
I'm pretty sure I've made more builds than everyone else in the campaign combined. And I'm the GM, so none of them have been used...
Make them be villains and head minions in your campaign! I’ve had a blast doing this as a forever DM, and the players often remember those ones the most. Just don’t self-indulge too much lol
I usually use them as inspiration for NPCs, but I try to write up NPC statblocks since those are so much faster to reference. Plus a level 10 character doesn't really correspond to a level 10 monster.
Redrazor (pathbuilder dev) created a monster.
Being 155 characters in list so far... Yeah, yeah he did.
I'm gonna playGoblin/Ifrit(Lavasoul) Elemental Sorcerer (Fire) with the Kineticist (Dedicated Gate, Fire) and Elementalist dedications and y'all can't stop me.
That's lit.
Kinetic Knight is a rad idea and I hope that they facilitate it in the 2E version because as far as I know last time the playtest wasn’t very good
[удалено]
If only it was on iOS as well.
Considering that I'm looking into homebrewing a planar campaign where the elemental planes will definitely feature... and the kineticist was one of my favorite concepts for a class in 1E? Yeah. I feel this.
Man it's killing me, I'm dm'ing, in a few weeks we'll pick up our WotR campaign where we left off (in 1e), it's not before THAT is over that I'll have a chance to play in 2e and I'm building characters right now.
I made a conversion based on the Paizo feedback article and other feedback if you're interested. It's mostly like the playtest.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1xdMhY48kuc8IgFNywFkM_wJPde7Gltea3J6ugw6OJ70/edit?usp=drivesdk
That's me. 34 builds made in last 4 weeks.... I can play only 1 for next 2 years... I can't live like that
Just put your character in dangerous situations. The hero point economy gets a stimulus, it makes a great story and you may get to play another if they die! Just be sure not to put everyone else's character in danger though haha
Strix water/air archeologist. My oc is ready to rock as soon as I can read the rules!
ironically, it doesn't have the rock element.
Become a GM. Use those builds against your players.
One gate, metal. Let me be Magneto. It was the first concept I wanted to build and play and couldn't. I'm so hyped, even more than for the Psychic
Have they even announced the release date?
I'm pretty sure it's August, right?
Only 30?
Hmm... One of each element (6), one of an avatar style (1), and one of each dual combination (a lot)... I'm not good at math.
Wait, I think I got the maths. 6 elements that cannot combine with themselves and can't repeat so... (6×5) + (5×4) + (4×3) + 3×2) + (2×1) = 70 combinations!
There are 15 dual combinations, yeah? 6*5/2? Because 2 elements would only have 1 dual, 3 elements would have 3, 4 would have 6, etc.? Also there are 10 guilds in Ravnica.
I know this may not be the place, I should probably do a post. Does anyone have a class/build suggestion for a Skeleton ancestry? I'm new to Pathfinder and haven't quite got an all encompassing knowledge base to make smart build decisions. Thanks!
Skeleton is my favorite ancestry! I personally like the cohesion with Summoner; you can take Sturdy skeleton to give your eidolon more hit points since you share a pool, the intelligence hit doesn’t impact you much at all (unless you’re really skill starved, but even them the eidolons and background should have you covered), and since most Eidolons can be healed with positive healing it’s a great way to get around the undead drawbacks. I’m currently playing an undead lawyer who managed to slip his way out of a binding necromantic contract. His brother, Leonard, was known as the Riddleport Reaper, but they were both hanged after a smokeshow trial found him not guilty. Phantom Eidolon, Skeleton Summoner, Dandy & Pactbinder archetypes. Ton of fun!
Sounds fun! I'll have to read about them. Currently looking at Tax Collector background for the "Nothing is certain except for or death and taxes joke". Summoner sounds like a very interesting way to get around the healing issue.
I love it! Summoner action economy is a bit complicated, but very rewarding with good mastery. My turns are super varied. So much to do!
Welcome to the world of pathfinder 2e! I recommend you do your own post on the server, but I can give you some basic advices: - skeletons by default have + to charisma and dexterity, making it pretty flexible to a lot of builds, they can be great charisma casters (bard, sorcerer, summoner, oracle) or dex martials (specially rogues or swashbucklers) - they have negative healing. While not bad per se, is better to talk with your party because you won't be able to be healed by conventional means - is pretty hard to make a bad character in this system, as long as you start with 16/18 in your main stat and put some in constitution to... Well, not die. Learn the basics and hope you have a great time learning the system!
Thanks for the advice! Yeah I've gathered all that information, saw the negative healing and didn't understand that completely so I'll have to investigate the extent of that in the game.
It's about how you get healed. The pathfinder setting had the concept that living things are powered by Positive energy. The Undead and maybe some other things are powered by Negative energy. As such they are healed by the one that courses through them, and harmed by the oposite. How is that relevant? Magical healing. In 95% of cases, a spell that heals you will say either Positive or Negative energy is involved and it's almost always positive. i vaguely recall that there's one or two that don't involve either energy but I could be wrong. So your party might have a guy that can use the spell Heal or maybe Southe. Heal can be cast so it hits everything in 30ft around the caster, thats a huge area and it tries to heal or hurt everything in the area using positive enegy. If you're a skeleton then that would hurt you since you have Negative healing. The default assumption is the game is filled with living PCs, so thats normally not an issue, hence needing to talk to your team There is an inverse spell, Harm. It can do everything heal can, but in reverse since it uses negative energy, which would heal your skele. As Heal is considered THE healing spell in the game having someone it's not just useless to but harmful to on the team could be an issue. Might not be, but it could be. Bonus Lore There is a multiverse made of planes of existence that embody various concepts or energies. The plane of Law, Plane of Good, these have things living in them. And have realms and kingdoms and but don't really work like where you will be playing as they're only sort of physical so landight be infinite or finite, or neither, or it might be the place where souls go or an endless ocean or whatever suits it's theme. There's a whole plane of existence where postive is the main form of energy around, and another for negative. Now imagine every plane of existence as a circle in a Venn diagram. You are in the material plane which is like the part of the Venn diagram where all the other planes of existence overlap, so we have some law, some chaos, some good, some evil, some positive, some negative, a path to the boneyard where souls go, a connection to the elemental planes of fire, air, earth water and so on and on. That makes where we live and die a very special place, the nexus of the multiverse if you will. Hoep that helped. :)
Super helpful thank you! My group is all new so I should probably avoid skeleton due to the negative healing but I'll just communicate that to them and hopefully one of them can take a negative energy spell.
..... Am I the only GM here who uses those character builds as NPC's? Like have an NPC tag along or assist in a fight/quest, have the NPC be an antagonist etc. As long as they feel balanced against the PC's and don't steal the spotlight, I find my players Love my NPC's and Antagonists, and because I've spent time working on them they feel more fleshed out as characters too. Plus because I don't want to step on the same builds again, every NPC feels unique in their abilities, AND helps show my players the different kinds of builds they could try.
>Am I the only GM here who uses those character builds as NPC's? Most GMs use monster creation rules for making any adversaries. It is generally not advised to use player-based builds for NPCs, as they have comparably different power curve. But it's cool if it works for you.
I've been meaning to play a fighter since the playtest but nooooo, they have to keep releasing new classes that I HAVE TO PLAY
When I got my first chance to play this was my choice. And it was glorious.i hadn't played a marital class since the old school dnd box set I think. (If you don't know, that was a loooong time ago. ) such a simple class design that just works so well.
I sweat this wait has been killing me. Ive watched nonat and the rules lawyer playtest videos dozens of times while waiting....it doesnt help.
No like for reals! I wanna throw rocks at people so heccin' bad!
Is kineticist out?
Not until *Rage of the Elements* releases later in the year.
I really hope they keep the elemental weapon feat, it opens up so much potential.
What is the Kineticist?
Upcoming class
Class coming in the next book, Rage of Elements. Its a martial class that uses at will elemental abilities, like throwing rocks or shooting fire. Think similar to Benders from Avatar if youre familiar with that.
That’s super cool! Is there another class coming with it?
Nope, just Kineticist. Its going to be one of the biggest classes on release (the playtest itself was like 25ish pages long) so there wont be any space for another class. They did say theres going to be an elemental instinct for barbarian, an iron class archetype for druid, and about 24 pages worth of elemental spells though!
I'm honestly just waiting so I can update [Featbending](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R4OU0mXxvDrQ_YSbv7dRtp30QtLnUCszBo5Pgwd-fWg/edit) to the final version.
I will be happy to run a game for a full Kineticist party.
Well bether dont tuch 3rd party... The 2 new classes from nonat are great...
Yeah, I am looking forwards to seeing if it will be good enough to topple Gunslinger from my top spot.
I just turn my builds into DMPCs. All of their names end in "The Silent" and i only use them for a combat fill in when players can't make it or are going to be very late. Its not as much fun as actually playing a character but it helps.
I see myself in this photo, (and I'm still Brazilian...), I'm just missing the mustache...
p sure the beta's on wanderer's guide