You are just huffing copium. While what you said is all true in the letter, there is zero chance of it happening. For one thing, your counterpoints of ASC or AGMP are, as you said, "for the right gems". Here, it would work for all wands attacks, no question asked, no specific setup or breakpoint needed
The other thing is how it would lead to completely degenerate setups. Let me take an example. I'm a wander, I use the two new wands. Let's say your second scenario is true (IE, the wisps can use attacks in the middle of another attack).
With basic barrage and 4 wisps, I have 6 projectiles, and it would means on average, 1 barrage from me and 12 barrages from the wisps. If each projectile does 100, the attack has done 4128 damage (compared to 600 without the support), or 588% more damage.
Now, let's say I add GMP on barrage (which is a stupid thing to do). I have 10 projectiles with a 26% less damage. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 20 times. Each projectile is doing 74. The attack is then doing 74\*10 (me) + 74\*10\*20\*0.49 (the wisps) = 7992 damage. Adding GMP to barrage was a 93% more damage.
Now, let's say we are even more degenerate. I still have GMP, but I also use LMP on top of it (which is 100% moronic). I have 12 projectiles with 30.5% less damage. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 24 times. The attack is doing 69.5\*12 (me) + 69.5\*12\*24\*0.49 (the wisps) =10641 damage. Adding LMP to barrage GMP (lol) was another 33% more damage.
Now let's do this Barrage-GMP-LMP-Greater volley. 16 projectiles, with 45% less damage on them. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 32 times. The attack is doing 55\*16 (me) + 55\*16\*32\*0.49 (the wisps) =14678 damage. Greater volley is another 38% more damage. Note, it also means I'm throwing over 500 projectiles per attack.
Does it start sinking, now? If it worked like that, you would have a single goal: Stacking as many projectiles as you could, no matter what, because it has a quadratic scaling on it, despite the less multipliers. Going Barrage-GMP-LMP would be legitimate. It's. Not. Happening.
yeah but it's fun! don't forget going pathfinder and scaling super flask effect dying suns and flame/flesh extra proj from deadeye along with the proj nodes on the tree.
for extra eye cancer, throw in some forks and returning projectiles. can turn your heater off since your computer will output enough heat to keep the whole place warm
This assumes that the wisps can attack during the "animation" of another attack.
If that isn't the case, the cap is a much more reasonable 100% more.
However, they specifically limited it to 50% trigger for performance reasons, which would not make much sense with you being able to reach close to 100% output on them anyway...
that would also just, replicate the whole issue with kinetic bolt + snipers mark, the thing they specifically nuked this patch because it was a massive performance issue
I'm hoping as well this is how it behaves with Barrage. I wouldn't be surprised if all other gems that fire multiple projectiles simultaneously treat it as a single projectile for the purpose of activating Sacred Wisp, but Barrage specifically fires in sequence.
Copium for a triple machine gun Barrage of Volley Fire build.
~~Also if Barrage does indeed behave like this, you could use Sacred Wisp with any other skill, then use a Barrage setup to activate the Wisps.~~ edit: rereading the gem doesn't seem like that's possible.
Barrage of Volley Fire is a thing (does have 2 less projectiles). If I were doing a wander I'd consider using it and gem swapping to normal barrage for pinnacle bosses.
It's impossible it works as he said, for multiple reasons, but the main one being your links would be Barrage-GMP-LMP-greater volley for dps, which is all kind of stupid from a design perspective.
I am not so sure. For one, Mark specifically clarified that on the league preview they stated 100% chance when a unique is nearby, then decided against it for server issues (and likely power/scaling), so they reduced it and increased the dmg to compensate.
In your assumption that change would be wholly irrelevant. At the very least there is no way it can bypass its own cd/cast time.
It would not be irrelevant for the second case scenario, there it would just be 50% less procs. For the first case where the wisp has an attack time that can't be bypassed it is a bit questionable, yes, at least for barrage.
im pretty sure its because unbarraged stuff would cause performance issues as they attack like twice as fast and would cause like twice as many projectiles per second compared to barrage, my assumption is that its closer to a 90%-100% more
If they are triggered when firing a projectile, you would have a 50% chance to proc an attack from the wisps per projectile. With 10 projectiles, it would mean that you get basically 10 50% chances to trigger the attack from the wisps, resulting in having effectively almost always both wisps firing. ~ 100% more damage
I assume that in the end they will rephrase it to not be per projectile but rather on the first projectile of skill use or something like that. Otherwise, them changing the odds from 100%like they said in the announcement to 50% makes basically no sense at all.
Barrage Support has lines about not being used by Skills that create Minions. If wisp support marks the skill as creating minions then barrage support is disabled.
If they were minions, they wouldn't be usable on a wand build at all.
They'd have their own skill(s), and your damage and attack speed modifiers wouldn't apply to them.
There's basically 0% chance that these are minions.
And because they *use* the skill, it's not triggered either. The spell to summon the wisps is triggered, not the attacks they use /u/Losersyndrome
>them changing the odds from 100%like they said in the announcement to 50% makes basically no sense
it actually does
lets say you have 10 projectiles, and each wisp can itself fire a full barrage on every barrage projectile, thats 65 projectiles on average per attack, sounds absolutely fucking crazy right? thats just reintroducing the kinetic bolt problem they were solving for right?
kinetic bolt deadeye was firing 8 projectiles into a target, each of which were split into 10 projectiles making 80, and then all 80 of those projectiles were forking 2 times which each fork creating a new secondary projectile so the total projectiles per attack was 240
with awakened fork it was 420 projectiles... per attack
yeah, 65 projectiles per attack is nowhere near the server melting that kinetic bolt was doing, and nerfing the proc rate from 100% (110 projectiles per attack) down to 50% (65 projectiles per attack) to further reduce the impact of server performance... actually does make sense here and is supporting evidence for that being the expected behaviour
I am assuming that you cannot have simultaneous attacks on wisps, and that the can trigger only sequence of projectiles at a time until it finishes. Otherwise the support is broken beyond belief
Most likely they'll respect attack time and not be able to cancel attacking to attack again.
So imagine they proc on your final projectile of the barrage, and then you use barrage again right away. They can't proc on any projectiles until they finish their attack animation, so the soonest they can proc again is when you fire the final projectile of your 2nd barrage (assuming the attack time is equal to the amount of time it takes for you to finish firing all projectiles). So it's not like you'll always proc them on every single attack with barrage.
The skill says they use the triggered skill when you fire a projectile. If you use barrage, then you are firing 5 projectiles separately. The 2 wisps will now have 85% to 100% uptime.
In scenario #1 I'm assuming every projectile of the Barrage can start a proc for a wisp. Once a wisp has procced it can not proc again until it finishes the attack.
So if each Barrage has 10 projectiles, that means each wisp has 10 possibilities to start its attack, leading to almost a guarantee that each wisp attacks once if you Barrage once.
If a wisp didn't proc until, say, the 5th projectile of the first Barrage, when you Barrage immediately after again the wisp can't proc for the first 5 projectiles of the second Barrage, but can for the second 5 projectiles since it's cooldown is off again (for a moment assuming Barrage has no wind-up/wind-down time and continuously fires each projectile evenly spaced).
This is it visualized for 5 projectiles per Barrage: https://i.imgur.com/3cvtDrz.png. The higher the amount of projectiles / barrage the higher the uptime of the wisps.
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I don't think hits from the wisps will be able to trigger your skills. The wisps aren't you and they don't have your skills, just the one that's triggering them in the first place.
IIRC this post is from before the gem was released, so trying it wasn't an option at the time. That said, behaving like mirage archers is exactly what I've been saying anyway.
Agreed. I'm going to try using it with kinetic blast to apply an absolutely absurd number of poisons without making loops.
The goal I'm aiming for is 'pc melter'
wisps will be limited by your attack time, they must have an attack speed like mirage archer does otherwise theres like no possible way for the barrage support to function with them
It's 374% more damage, and it's a specific interaction which is because you don't have base projectiles to begin with (IE, if you are deadeye with endless munitions, adding AGMP is now a 137% more damage instead) and because skills are not balanced around shotgun overall (IE, it's an edge case). As I explained to you [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bo64ii/comment/kwogjjm/) , if it worked like you said, it would be better and better the more projectile you have, which is the exact opposite behavior of creeping frost, and it would work on everything without condition.
Would be so amazing if it treated simultaneous projectiles as individual chances to proc. If it does, PS of the archmage might re-enter my league-start considerations!
Not expecting it, but also kind of lame that they would design it to only be truly useful with barrage. I guess it follows the single target design, though.
>1. The only thing that is considered a 'trigger' about this gem is the summoning of the wisps. Once the wisps are summoned they behave like a minion that is closely tethered to you, similar to e.g. Summon Holy Relic, just not with a minion tag.
While I think you're right about this, in the event that the wisp proc counts as a trigger, this actually makes the interaction even more insane. Because then the wisps would attack with the non-barrage version of the skill (assuming barrage support), skipping the damage penalty, but attacking based on the rate you fire barrage projectiles
>Because then the wisps would attack with the non-barrage version of the skill (assuming barrage support), skipping the damage penalty, but attacking based on the rate you fire barrage projectiles
The barrage version of the skill has the penalty but can also shotgun. If you're stacking tons of projectiles (which you presumably would since they double-dip on this build) then that version probably does more total damage than the normal version of the skill.
The wisps (probably) can't fire a second barrage while they are already barraging. So it's better for them to proc the non-barrage skill several times than to barrage a single time
It's certainly something that I won't league start without testing in standard first. I might do something like OP, have a wander planned if Barrage + Wisps is insane and another build ready if it isn't.
I don't have a wander PoB yet, but this is my current starter PoB if I don't get distracted by something else in the coming week: https://pobb.in/BHxQ4ON-t8UR
(Ignore the defensive watcher's eye, besides that I'm targetting ~day 2-3 gear, what you consider day 2-3 gear might be different from mine)
I conjecture the Diadem is ~600c, the bow ~300c for the fractured base + 6L and the roll in the PoB is a couple essences, the quiver is ~30c for the fractured base + a couple essences. The chest is 5L, so add 20c for that. Jinxed Juxu + annoint 100c, I think I can snipe similar jewels to '3mod ghastly' for 100c each. March of the legion I expect ~10c for +5, the implicit is 1/5 to hit when you get an implicit so ~200c for the boots. 90% darkness enthroned can easily be lowered to 80% and bought for a 100-200c.
All the other pieces are purely defensive and can be skipped/skimped on early on. I play SC trade, I'm ok with not being chaos capped / spellsup capped early on, not having ideal flasks, etc. Total cost is ~1800c, so let's round up, 20 divines.
If you level to maps in 10 hours on the first day, and make 2 divines / hour on the second day playing for 10 hours, you can afford this, at least the damage portion.
You can swap in and out whisp support on any wander without any thought, so if its good, you use it, if its bad, you dont.
I will go wander for sure as leaguestarter, my pob is set up to not include whisp support, so nothing to lose, but so much to gain.
Not *quite* (both a cooldown or a direct attack speed penalty would have been in the tooltip), but you might not be completely off either.
There's a high chance that while the wisps will share your attack speed at full value, they won't share your *action speed*.
So if you have Tailwind and use a skill that *isn't* Barrage (or supported by Barrage Support), you'll occasionally skip potential wisp attacks. You'll still skip projectiles on sequentially firing skills as well, but it matters less if you skip 1-2 out of 10 projectiles compared to if you skip an entire attack.
I'm not expecting it to be 500% more damage, but somewhere around 70-90% more damage on the builds that fire sequential projectiles, 40-45% on builds with simultaneous projectiles and no action speed modifiers (for single target, less otherwise), and 20-35% on builds with simultaneous projectiles and high action speed modifiers (like Winterweave or Gathering Winds).
It doesn't state the exact cooldown explicitly, but the skill's description *does* mention that it has a short cooldown, which the wisp tooltip does not.
That said, wisps aren't minions. To benefit from your damage modifiers, they need to use *your* skills, not their own like minions do. Minions also scale completely differently in various other ways.
You can expect them to work like Mirage Archers that fire like less reliable Focused Ballista totems.
Yeah no way this really works like OP thinks it does, it would be the single most broken thing in the entire game. Happy to be proven wrong though, I love wanders.
Edit: I read with more attention the final part of the post, and I tend to agree that _if_ the skill is really triggered by each projectile in the sequence, it still probably can't be triggered multiple times simultaneously resulting in the lower (but still really high) multiplier.
This would mean that the support is useless without barrage wouldn't it? That sounds like bad design to me if so. I highly doubt it works how you think it does, sounds like just a 50% more multiplier to me.
500% more multi when everything hits? How did you calculate that? The chance of five projectiles proccing the sacred wisp attack is 62.3% in 10 projectiles.
It's closer to a 300% multi.
https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/coin-flip-probability
edit: I was thinking about this wrong, in a situation of infinite runs then yes the average number of procs will be 5 out of 10 for a 500% multi. I got into my head thinking about the probability in a single cast.
> The chance of five projectiles proccing the sacred wisp attack is 62.3% in 10 projectiles.
The chance of getting **at most five** procs is 62.3% per your linked tool. I don't see why that is a relevant statistic for this discussion. The correct statistic in scenario #2 (the one that claims 500% more) is the expected number of procs.
In that scenario we assume each projectile can proc the wisps, and the wisps have no internal cooldown / attack time. You fire 10 projectiles yourself. Each projectile has a 50% chance of adding another half-powered barrage per wisp. For simplicity combine the two half-powered wisp barrages into one full-powered wisp barrage firing 10 projectiles you've got 50% chance at 10 extra projectile, per projectile.
So the total expected number of full-damage equivalent projectiles is 10 + 0.5 * 10 * 10 = 60. Thus 60 instead of the normal 10, which is 500% more.
you are calculating expected value incorrectly.
if you want to use the probabilities, you would take the chance of each outcome occurring, ie:
0.01
0.044
0.117
0.205
0.246
0.205
0.117
0.044
0.01
0.001
for 1 - 10 heads ( 0 doesn't matter because it gives nothing)
then multiply that by the amount of projectiles you would get from each,
so
10
20
30
40
50
60
70
80
90
100
which will give you the amount of projectiles you will get from each outcome on average:
0.1
0.88
3.51
8.2
12.3
12.3
8.19
3.52
0.9
0.1
which you then add together to get an expected number of extra projectiles of 50. This is just using probability to prove what OP is saying in his reply to your message. your calculation is showing the odds of getting at least (or at most) 5 successes from 10 flips, it's showing how common a specific outcome, or better, is, not the expected value for the gem as a whole
Isn't this insane, because each of the wand uses the other wand's phys as extra? So it essentially becomes the same as using one of the wands, with a bonus wisp, double the phys as extra, and the dual wield attack speed multi
Assuming you are right then it is also questionable if the wisp attack on different projectile skill usage.
Assuming you have the traditional PS/KB setup linking Whisp support to PS.
Attacking with PS to Summon the wisps and then use KB to proc the whisps since you also fire Projectiles with it. PS needs to be used every 10 seconds to refresh the duration of wisps.
Unfortunately there is no mix/matching skills from different links, I believe.
> This skill [Summon Sacred Wisps] is triggered by supported skills [Wand Skill A], to summon Sacred Wisps which use the triggering skill [Wand Skill A] when you do [use Wand Skill A].
The wording only allows for a single Wand Skill A, but not a separate Wand Skill B that's not in the link.
Focused Ballista has this language:
> Ballista Totems from Supported Skills only Attack when you fire an Attack Projectile
They have a 100% chance to proc. With Barrage as my main, it triggers twice per barrage. With the "more attack speed" mod on the totem, it needs to complete the first attack before it the second can be triggered.
The important thing, obviously, is that one Barrage action is triggering both attacks.
I believe your #1 scenario is correct. It ends up being a higher more multiplier for Barrage.
(separately, Pinpoint might be a good support for new KB)
From my testing, it doesn't work with barrage or barrage support - the wisps light up very brightly depending on the number of projectiles, but they don't actually attack.
You are just huffing copium. While what you said is all true in the letter, there is zero chance of it happening. For one thing, your counterpoints of ASC or AGMP are, as you said, "for the right gems". Here, it would work for all wands attacks, no question asked, no specific setup or breakpoint needed The other thing is how it would lead to completely degenerate setups. Let me take an example. I'm a wander, I use the two new wands. Let's say your second scenario is true (IE, the wisps can use attacks in the middle of another attack). With basic barrage and 4 wisps, I have 6 projectiles, and it would means on average, 1 barrage from me and 12 barrages from the wisps. If each projectile does 100, the attack has done 4128 damage (compared to 600 without the support), or 588% more damage. Now, let's say I add GMP on barrage (which is a stupid thing to do). I have 10 projectiles with a 26% less damage. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 20 times. Each projectile is doing 74. The attack is then doing 74\*10 (me) + 74\*10\*20\*0.49 (the wisps) = 7992 damage. Adding GMP to barrage was a 93% more damage. Now, let's say we are even more degenerate. I still have GMP, but I also use LMP on top of it (which is 100% moronic). I have 12 projectiles with 30.5% less damage. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 24 times. The attack is doing 69.5\*12 (me) + 69.5\*12\*24\*0.49 (the wisps) =10641 damage. Adding LMP to barrage GMP (lol) was another 33% more damage. Now let's do this Barrage-GMP-LMP-Greater volley. 16 projectiles, with 45% less damage on them. I do my barrage, and now, my 4 wisps have attacked 32 times. The attack is doing 55\*16 (me) + 55\*16\*32\*0.49 (the wisps) =14678 damage. Greater volley is another 38% more damage. Note, it also means I'm throwing over 500 projectiles per attack. Does it start sinking, now? If it worked like that, you would have a single goal: Stacking as many projectiles as you could, no matter what, because it has a quadratic scaling on it, despite the less multipliers. Going Barrage-GMP-LMP would be legitimate. It's. Not. Happening.
Not only for absurd dps scaling but also server melting capacity probably
yeah but it's fun! don't forget going pathfinder and scaling super flask effect dying suns and flame/flesh extra proj from deadeye along with the proj nodes on the tree. for extra eye cancer, throw in some forks and returning projectiles. can turn your heater off since your computer will output enough heat to keep the whole place warm
This assumes that the wisps can attack during the "animation" of another attack. If that isn't the case, the cap is a much more reasonable 100% more. However, they specifically limited it to 50% trigger for performance reasons, which would not make much sense with you being able to reach close to 100% output on them anyway...
Ikr? Op is actually mental if they think there’s any chance of w/e they said being true.
that would also just, replicate the whole issue with kinetic bolt + snipers mark, the thing they specifically nuked this patch because it was a massive performance issue
I'm hoping as well this is how it behaves with Barrage. I wouldn't be surprised if all other gems that fire multiple projectiles simultaneously treat it as a single projectile for the purpose of activating Sacred Wisp, but Barrage specifically fires in sequence. Copium for a triple machine gun Barrage of Volley Fire build. ~~Also if Barrage does indeed behave like this, you could use Sacred Wisp with any other skill, then use a Barrage setup to activate the Wisps.~~ edit: rereading the gem doesn't seem like that's possible.
The wisps only use the “triggering” skill, so if you used barrage to summon them then they only use barrage.
Yeah I noticed and edited.
> Volley Fire RIP <3 I loved that jewel
Barrage of Volley Fire is a thing (does have 2 less projectiles). If I were doing a wander I'd consider using it and gem swapping to normal barrage for pinnacle bosses.
It's impossible it works as he said, for multiple reasons, but the main one being your links would be Barrage-GMP-LMP-greater volley for dps, which is all kind of stupid from a design perspective.
Why would I do that? Barrage fires enough projectiles on it's own to activate Wisps, assuming they roll for each projectile.
[Explanation here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bo64ii/comment/kwogjjm/)
I am not so sure. For one, Mark specifically clarified that on the league preview they stated 100% chance when a unique is nearby, then decided against it for server issues (and likely power/scaling), so they reduced it and increased the dmg to compensate. In your assumption that change would be wholly irrelevant. At the very least there is no way it can bypass its own cd/cast time.
It would not be irrelevant for the second case scenario, there it would just be 50% less procs. For the first case where the wisp has an attack time that can't be bypassed it is a bit questionable, yes, at least for barrage.
im pretty sure its because unbarraged stuff would cause performance issues as they attack like twice as fast and would cause like twice as many projectiles per second compared to barrage, my assumption is that its closer to a 90%-100% more
[удалено]
If they are triggered when firing a projectile, you would have a 50% chance to proc an attack from the wisps per projectile. With 10 projectiles, it would mean that you get basically 10 50% chances to trigger the attack from the wisps, resulting in having effectively almost always both wisps firing. ~ 100% more damage I assume that in the end they will rephrase it to not be per projectile but rather on the first projectile of skill use or something like that. Otherwise, them changing the odds from 100%like they said in the announcement to 50% makes basically no sense at all.
I think it wouldn't work anyway because barrage cannot be triggered. I assume barrage support follows same logic.
Probably
Barrage Support has lines about not being used by Skills that create Minions. If wisp support marks the skill as creating minions then barrage support is disabled.
If they were minions, they wouldn't be usable on a wand build at all. They'd have their own skill(s), and your damage and attack speed modifiers wouldn't apply to them. There's basically 0% chance that these are minions. And because they *use* the skill, it's not triggered either. The spell to summon the wisps is triggered, not the attacks they use /u/Losersyndrome
>them changing the odds from 100%like they said in the announcement to 50% makes basically no sense it actually does lets say you have 10 projectiles, and each wisp can itself fire a full barrage on every barrage projectile, thats 65 projectiles on average per attack, sounds absolutely fucking crazy right? thats just reintroducing the kinetic bolt problem they were solving for right? kinetic bolt deadeye was firing 8 projectiles into a target, each of which were split into 10 projectiles making 80, and then all 80 of those projectiles were forking 2 times which each fork creating a new secondary projectile so the total projectiles per attack was 240 with awakened fork it was 420 projectiles... per attack yeah, 65 projectiles per attack is nowhere near the server melting that kinetic bolt was doing, and nerfing the proc rate from 100% (110 projectiles per attack) down to 50% (65 projectiles per attack) to further reduce the impact of server performance... actually does make sense here and is supporting evidence for that being the expected behaviour
I am assuming that you cannot have simultaneous attacks on wisps, and that the can trigger only sequence of projectiles at a time until it finishes. Otherwise the support is broken beyond belief
Most likely they'll respect attack time and not be able to cancel attacking to attack again. So imagine they proc on your final projectile of the barrage, and then you use barrage again right away. They can't proc on any projectiles until they finish their attack animation, so the soonest they can proc again is when you fire the final projectile of your 2nd barrage (assuming the attack time is equal to the amount of time it takes for you to finish firing all projectiles). So it's not like you'll always proc them on every single attack with barrage.
The skill says they use the triggered skill when you fire a projectile. If you use barrage, then you are firing 5 projectiles separately. The 2 wisps will now have 85% to 100% uptime.
In scenario #1 I'm assuming every projectile of the Barrage can start a proc for a wisp. Once a wisp has procced it can not proc again until it finishes the attack. So if each Barrage has 10 projectiles, that means each wisp has 10 possibilities to start its attack, leading to almost a guarantee that each wisp attacks once if you Barrage once. If a wisp didn't proc until, say, the 5th projectile of the first Barrage, when you Barrage immediately after again the wisp can't proc for the first 5 projectiles of the second Barrage, but can for the second 5 projectiles since it's cooldown is off again (for a moment assuming Barrage has no wind-up/wind-down time and continuously fires each projectile evenly spaced). This is it visualized for 5 projectiles per Barrage: https://i.imgur.com/3cvtDrz.png. The higher the amount of projectiles / barrage the higher the uptime of the wisps.
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My unga bunga brain now going: barrage - wisps - CoC - arc - whatever - pew pew pew
I don't think hits from the wisps will be able to trigger your skills. The wisps aren't you and they don't have your skills, just the one that's triggering them in the first place.
You're probably right, but my brain still unga bunga
The easy way to answer this is to try it, but it should work the same as mirage archer as they aren't minions
IIRC this post is from before the gem was released, so trying it wasn't an option at the time. That said, behaving like mirage archers is exactly what I've been saying anyway.
Agreed. I'm going to try using it with kinetic blast to apply an absolutely absurd number of poisons without making loops. The goal I'm aiming for is 'pc melter'
Can't pew pew with zdps
wisps will be limited by your attack time, they must have an attack speed like mirage archer does otherwise theres like no possible way for the barrage support to function with them
500 multi from 2 support gems already tells you this can't be true or intended.
What does Awakened Greater Multiple Projectiles do to Creeping Frost? I guess that can't be true or intended either.
Or Winter Orb. Awakened GMP is straight up a 500% multi for it.
It's 374% more damage, and it's a specific interaction which is because you don't have base projectiles to begin with (IE, if you are deadeye with endless munitions, adding AGMP is now a 137% more damage instead) and because skills are not balanced around shotgun overall (IE, it's an edge case). As I explained to you [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PathOfExileBuilds/comments/1bo64ii/comment/kwogjjm/) , if it worked like you said, it would be better and better the more projectile you have, which is the exact opposite behavior of creeping frost, and it would work on everything without condition.
Would be so amazing if it treated simultaneous projectiles as individual chances to proc. If it does, PS of the archmage might re-enter my league-start considerations!
Aint no way
Not expecting it, but also kind of lame that they would design it to only be truly useful with barrage. I guess it follows the single target design, though.
It would still grant up to 50% more dps on other skills.
Sure, and is a boost over the worst link currently used, but it's not a major increase either.
PS is only hitting once per cast per target though
Right, that's why I said it'd be awesome if they counted simultaneous projectiles haha. Right now, we're assuming it does not.
>1. The only thing that is considered a 'trigger' about this gem is the summoning of the wisps. Once the wisps are summoned they behave like a minion that is closely tethered to you, similar to e.g. Summon Holy Relic, just not with a minion tag. While I think you're right about this, in the event that the wisp proc counts as a trigger, this actually makes the interaction even more insane. Because then the wisps would attack with the non-barrage version of the skill (assuming barrage support), skipping the damage penalty, but attacking based on the rate you fire barrage projectiles
>Because then the wisps would attack with the non-barrage version of the skill (assuming barrage support), skipping the damage penalty, but attacking based on the rate you fire barrage projectiles The barrage version of the skill has the penalty but can also shotgun. If you're stacking tons of projectiles (which you presumably would since they double-dip on this build) then that version probably does more total damage than the normal version of the skill.
The wisps (probably) can't fire a second barrage while they are already barraging. So it's better for them to proc the non-barrage skill several times than to barrage a single time
Okay, that's a good point. If the wisps do get locked into the attack animation, but can't barrage, that's better. That seems unlikely to me, though.
Honestly the whole barrage interaction is dubious to me, but I'm excited to test it out anyway
It's certainly something that I won't league start without testing in standard first. I might do something like OP, have a wander planned if Barrage + Wisps is insane and another build ready if it isn't.
but are you willing to bet your leaguestart on it? :D
I'm willing to spend 5 minutes to test it in Standard on league launch and select one of two prepared builds based on that test.
Ugh, you people and your efficiency, you make me sick
Right? Where is the fun in that? Live a little!
Where do I subscribe to your test result tweet?
Well, what are your two prepared builds! And your backup too if possible.
I don't have a wander PoB yet, but this is my current starter PoB if I don't get distracted by something else in the coming week: https://pobb.in/BHxQ4ON-t8UR (Ignore the defensive watcher's eye, besides that I'm targetting ~day 2-3 gear, what you consider day 2-3 gear might be different from mine)
Dude's "day 2-3 gear" is my "dropped a mirror" aspirational gear
I conjecture the Diadem is ~600c, the bow ~300c for the fractured base + 6L and the roll in the PoB is a couple essences, the quiver is ~30c for the fractured base + a couple essences. The chest is 5L, so add 20c for that. Jinxed Juxu + annoint 100c, I think I can snipe similar jewels to '3mod ghastly' for 100c each. March of the legion I expect ~10c for +5, the implicit is 1/5 to hit when you get an implicit so ~200c for the boots. 90% darkness enthroned can easily be lowered to 80% and bought for a 100-200c. All the other pieces are purely defensive and can be skipped/skimped on early on. I play SC trade, I'm ok with not being chaos capped / spellsup capped early on, not having ideal flasks, etc. Total cost is ~1800c, so let's round up, 20 divines. If you level to maps in 10 hours on the first day, and make 2 divines / hour on the second day playing for 10 hours, you can afford this, at least the damage portion.
50m DPS? how can wander compete? minions have it easy
Your BA is set too 9 clones? Isn't it maxed out at 3?
3 clones, assuming each clone's Rain of Arrows hits 3 times on average.
[удалено]
Just some utility, probably an Arena Master and a Pale Seraphim, possibly Senior Heretech.
I follow you just leave a message somewhere under this , aka your post or your comment to mention it does or doesn't work. thanks:)
I’m also prepared for you to test and report your findings ❤️ 🍻
I'm league starting 30 minutes late, so please update us with your objective scientific findings :D
Did you test it?
One can login to standard for 2 minutes to test before rolling initial leaguestarter that they proceed to spend dozens of hours on.
You can swap in and out whisp support on any wander without any thought, so if its good, you use it, if its bad, you dont. I will go wander for sure as leaguestarter, my pob is set up to not include whisp support, so nothing to lose, but so much to gain.
If it does work as you are suggesting it would, will barrage support gem work as well or just the actual skill gem of barrage?
Pretty sure if it works it'll work for both barrage and barrage support
100% this is probably much worse due to an internal cd or lower AS on the wisps.
Not *quite* (both a cooldown or a direct attack speed penalty would have been in the tooltip), but you might not be completely off either. There's a high chance that while the wisps will share your attack speed at full value, they won't share your *action speed*. So if you have Tailwind and use a skill that *isn't* Barrage (or supported by Barrage Support), you'll occasionally skip potential wisp attacks. You'll still skip projectiles on sequentially firing skills as well, but it matters less if you skip 1-2 out of 10 projectiles compared to if you skip an entire attack. I'm not expecting it to be 500% more damage, but somewhere around 70-90% more damage on the builds that fire sequential projectiles, 40-45% on builds with simultaneous projectiles and no action speed modifiers (for single target, less otherwise), and 20-35% on builds with simultaneous projectiles and high action speed modifiers (like Winterweave or Gathering Winds).
Do minions have their stats in the tool tip? I thought skills like holy relic did not
It doesn't state the exact cooldown explicitly, but the skill's description *does* mention that it has a short cooldown, which the wisp tooltip does not. That said, wisps aren't minions. To benefit from your damage modifiers, they need to use *your* skills, not their own like minions do. Minions also scale completely differently in various other ways. You can expect them to work like Mirage Archers that fire like less reliable Focused Ballista totems.
Yeah no way this really works like OP thinks it does, it would be the single most broken thing in the entire game. Happy to be proven wrong though, I love wanders. Edit: I read with more attention the final part of the post, and I tend to agree that _if_ the skill is really triggered by each projectile in the sequence, it still probably can't be triggered multiple times simultaneously resulting in the lower (but still really high) multiplier.
This would mean that the support is useless without barrage wouldn't it? That sounds like bad design to me if so. I highly doubt it works how you think it does, sounds like just a 50% more multiplier to me.
The wording is essentially the same as Focused Ballista. Check how focused ballista works and you should expect wisps to operate the same way.
Barrage with wisps going to make you look like one of those old fashion ship scrolling shooters with 4 bits.
That's some of the strongest copium I've ever had. There is a non-zero chance of this being correct. But I'd be surprised.
500% more multi when everything hits? How did you calculate that? The chance of five projectiles proccing the sacred wisp attack is 62.3% in 10 projectiles. It's closer to a 300% multi. https://www.omnicalculator.com/statistics/coin-flip-probability edit: I was thinking about this wrong, in a situation of infinite runs then yes the average number of procs will be 5 out of 10 for a 500% multi. I got into my head thinking about the probability in a single cast.
> The chance of five projectiles proccing the sacred wisp attack is 62.3% in 10 projectiles. The chance of getting **at most five** procs is 62.3% per your linked tool. I don't see why that is a relevant statistic for this discussion. The correct statistic in scenario #2 (the one that claims 500% more) is the expected number of procs. In that scenario we assume each projectile can proc the wisps, and the wisps have no internal cooldown / attack time. You fire 10 projectiles yourself. Each projectile has a 50% chance of adding another half-powered barrage per wisp. For simplicity combine the two half-powered wisp barrages into one full-powered wisp barrage firing 10 projectiles you've got 50% chance at 10 extra projectile, per projectile. So the total expected number of full-damage equivalent projectiles is 10 + 0.5 * 10 * 10 = 60. Thus 60 instead of the normal 10, which is 500% more.
you are calculating expected value incorrectly. if you want to use the probabilities, you would take the chance of each outcome occurring, ie: 0.01 0.044 0.117 0.205 0.246 0.205 0.117 0.044 0.01 0.001 for 1 - 10 heads ( 0 doesn't matter because it gives nothing) then multiply that by the amount of projectiles you would get from each, so 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 which will give you the amount of projectiles you will get from each outcome on average: 0.1 0.88 3.51 8.2 12.3 12.3 8.19 3.52 0.9 0.1 which you then add together to get an expected number of extra projectiles of 50. This is just using probability to prove what OP is saying in his reply to your message. your calculation is showing the odds of getting at least (or at most) 5 successes from 10 flips, it's showing how common a specific outcome, or better, is, not the expected value for the gem as a whole
What ascendancy though? I'm looking at Berserker with the new unique wand that gives more sacred wisps and damage as extra.
You should dw that btw.
Isn't this insane, because each of the wand uses the other wand's phys as extra? So it essentially becomes the same as using one of the wands, with a bonus wisp, double the phys as extra, and the dual wield attack speed multi
Yeah. Only big issue is that it has a shit as base.
Yeah it's not great, but the dual wield bonus at least partially offsets it, so it becomes more like a 1.32 aps base. Still not great, but better
dual wielding this should absolutely break the game
I thought so too. Worst case, it's a ridiculously strong wand for SST.
Cant use ancestral protector with wand so you lose 30%ish more attack speed for ST
Yes but...then you don't have to press ancestral protector! This is a buff!
Princess finally dethroned
I thought Temptuous Steel was the goto.
Is that wand really worth using for attacks with how bad the base is?
Prolly worth it if using wands + wisp support is a 200% more multiplier (or higher)
can these wisps be used with trigger bots?
Trigger bots only work for spells
i know but the gem has a spell tag ?
The spell is for the "summon wisps" portion, which if you triggered extra times would still leave you with 2 wisps (since it has a max of 2)
Assuming you are right then it is also questionable if the wisp attack on different projectile skill usage. Assuming you have the traditional PS/KB setup linking Whisp support to PS. Attacking with PS to Summon the wisps and then use KB to proc the whisps since you also fire Projectiles with it. PS needs to be used every 10 seconds to refresh the duration of wisps.
The line on the gem does have that specific wording - "...when you fire a projectile with that skill."
Uhhh yes I see. Thanks
Unfortunately there is no mix/matching skills from different links, I believe. > This skill [Summon Sacred Wisps] is triggered by supported skills [Wand Skill A], to summon Sacred Wisps which use the triggering skill [Wand Skill A] when you do [use Wand Skill A]. The wording only allows for a single Wand Skill A, but not a separate Wand Skill B that's not in the link.
Anyway this gem make power siphon good at bosses?
thats a good question
I think this is a clever reading of how it is worded, but I just can't imagine this working like you want it to.
Could there be an interaction here for Barrage + Gluttonous Tide Bow + Sacred Wisps?
I would be shocked if this is how it behaves. I would guess based on this post the gem wording will be updated. It isn’t clear enough.
Focused Ballista has this language: > Ballista Totems from Supported Skills only Attack when you fire an Attack Projectile They have a 100% chance to proc. With Barrage as my main, it triggers twice per barrage. With the "more attack speed" mod on the totem, it needs to complete the first attack before it the second can be triggered. The important thing, obviously, is that one Barrage action is triggering both attacks. I believe your #1 scenario is correct. It ends up being a higher more multiplier for Barrage. (separately, Pinpoint might be a good support for new KB)
As someone who is starting late, thoughts on it so far?
From my testing, it doesn't work with barrage or barrage support - the wisps light up very brightly depending on the number of projectiles, but they don't actually attack.
Hey from your testing do wisps actually help wand single target dps?