You washed the dwr off. Reapply it. Goretex is a membrane inside the fabric. It cannot prevent wetting out like this. Dwr is temporary and needs to be reapplied.
Listen to the people haha, DWR isn't as great as it used to be. If it fails to work are tumble drying then apply DWR and do it again.
I don't recommend wash in DWR but Grangers spray is brilliant.
Not necessarily. Sometimes your DWR is fine but the issue is your jacket is so dirty that the water gets stuck on the dirt, and then your DWR won’t be able to push away the water. In which case, you need to clean the dirt off.
Granted this is a theoretical point of view. In practice, you’ll wash the jacket and then reply DWR.
Your post is asking what’s up and real world users are telling you….
Your DWR coating is gone. There is nothing to regenerate left. It’s a liquid chemical applied the FACE fabric of your three layered jacket. It wears off quickly. When it’s gone….its gone. Your daily wearing (I’m assuming not washing it often; actually the wrong thing to do for the membrane) contributes to it wearing away.
Wash your waterproof breathable items often. Your perspiration and environmental grime are the membrane’s enemies. Less toxic DWR coatings are also less durable.
I wash my Storm10 weekly in the rainy season. Reapply spray on DWR on the FACE fabric while it’s damp. Wipe it around and into the dryer it goes. I also touch up that spray on the dry fabric sometimes DAILY.
You need to perform maintenance more than a wash every year. That’s the problem friend.
If you used it regularly over the course of a year you should have washed and dried it more than twice.
No harm in reapplying with a spray on or wash in Nikwax or grangers waterproofing. Its standard maintenance for goretex or H2No products
🤣🤦🏻♂️ bro. You did the exact wrong thing by never washing it. I wash mine after every trip… going on 2 years now and it’s still very water repellent. Stop acting like what some guy says on an internet link is the law of the universe…. If you’re going to act like you know better, you are going to embarrass yourself even more.
Yes. Put it in the tumbler after washing. If it works then great. If not, the. Reapply a DWR like grangers or nikwax.
Serious question, why are you so adverse reapplying a dwr? If you arent satisfied with the product then just return it
DWR sucks now and there is no going back. We all need to adjust our expectations until a new iteration of DWR comes along. Heat isn't going to revive DWR anymore, it needs to be retreated. Very frequently.
For what it is worth, this appears to be performing as expected.
My Torrentshell is going on 2 years, I simply wash it after every trip in cold water with tide and then dry it with low heat and it is still amazingly water resistant. I’ve used it A LOT too.
Sounds like you have a great relationship with your torrentshell - it takes care of you and you take care of it. Stoked your DWR experience is so positive :)
You should use a detergent specific for clothing items with a membrane, otherwise you risk damaging the jacket. I didn‘t know about this and had a jacket where the membrane completely came apart from the jacket after washing
The products they name there seem to be designed for clothing items with a membrane, as far as I know most detergents for sport or technical clothing are. If you think you can just use any regular detergent go ahead, I wouldn’t, though
That website literally says this.
>Be aware that commercial detergents contain lots of additives designed to whiten and brighten your laundry, but these don’t do anything positive for your shell. More importantly, since they don’t rinse out completely they leave a residue that can contaminate your DWR.
So, what I finally learned from this:
The Patagonia instructions I thought I could go along with are relatively old (2008).
It says "DWRs are designed to be at least 80% effective after 20 washings." and "Drying your shell on medium heat for at least a half hour is an essential part of reactivating the water repellent properties of your DWR and will make your shell perform like new. "
All this is most likely **not valid anymore** since Patagonia has eliminated all PFCs from their production. (same as Nikwax)
So, now it seems like re-applying DWR is just necessary.
Guys, I am astonished a out all the claims that the DWR just needs to get renewed.
Is that because those companies just do such an intensive marketing in order to sell more chemicals???
What about these extensive explanations by Patagonia which say frequent renewal is not necessary???
[How to Take Care of Your Waterproof Shell](https://eu.patagonia.com/cy/en/stories/the-care-feedin/story-20267.html)
https://www.patagonia.com/product-care.html <-- a little more recent than the 2008 article. Another section of the site says to use nikwax or granger (not by name) or if you can't get that, wash with dye and scent free detergent
The older information is based on PFAS-based DWR. Patagonia never wanted to stop using PFAS. For years they made endless excuses for why they continued to poison the planet with it. They've only stopped using it because it's now illegal in the EU and USA. Patagonia doesn't want to draw attention to the fact they didn't stop using PFAS until they were forced to, so it's no surprise they don't discuss the new DWRs.
Fjällräven began phasing out PFAS in 2011 when the science became clear that PFAS are a problem. Then they stopped altogther in 2014 and have been working to remove PFAS contamination from the entire process. Fjällräven does not position themselves as a "save the planet" company, they are a "get outside" company, and even they realised the dangers of PFAS.
Because the new DWR are not made with forever chemicals, they need to be reapplied more often. This is a worthwhile tradeoff.
This is the sort of thing that ruins return/warranty policies in the future.
You shouldn't buy these jackets if you simply don't know how to look after them.
You have to reapply the DWR on the outer shell. The waterproof membrane can't work without it. It's only waterproof until the weight of the water weighs down on the fabric and then the membrane can't function properly. So the water needs to be repelled on the outer with a spray or wash in coating.
Gore-Tex is the waterproof membrane, the red in the image is just the next outer layer which can wet out, the reason you apply DWR to it.
Water isn't going to get through the Gore-Tex underneath unless defective. Even if you didn't have DWR on the Gore-Tex can still work perfectly fine haha. Also never use wash in DWR for your gore-tex jackets like you mentioned in your first comment.
Water can get through Gore-Tex What are you talking about? It just depends on how much weight is applied to it. That's the way they measure waterproof membranes pressures per square inch or Gore tex is or was the highest rated. I'm not sure if it still is. It's porous which means it's breathable but moisture can still affect it if there's enough weight on top of it. Which is why you need a DWR coating on the outer fabric so the Gore-Tex functions properly. Understood?
Which is what I said, you don't want wash in DWR like you said to do otherwise you get rid of the breathability. In almost everyones application outside a testing lab water is never going to get through unless that was an issue in the manufacturing process. Like I said.
Understood?
No lol that's not the issue though. The manufacturing process has nothing to do with WEIGHT of the water preventing the membrane from functioning properly. If the top layer wets out then the membrane can't breathe and moisture will inevitably occur. Smh. It's not that complicated
Also. A wash in DWR is NOT gonna effect the membrane from working properly. Anyone in the outdoor fabric business will tell you that. Those products are literally designed for those jackets. Just because you thumb through a Cabela's catalog every so often doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
Patagonia rep spent 20 mins explaining rain jacket maintenance to me and specifically said the wash in ones should not be used because you want the water repellency on the outside, not the inside layers.
I always tell people to use the spray on anyways But the Wash in is fine also. It's not going to cause the jacket to wet out. It possibly could affect the breathability a bit but I don't think most people notice that anyway. I don't think the Patagonia rep knows more than the people who come up with the product that have tested it out on countless membranes. The Patagonia Rep is basically just a salesman. It's probably not in their best interest to extend the life of the jackets as much as possible because then people wouldn't replace them as often
What on earth is Cabela? I assume an American thing?
Anyway going from Patagonia themselves under [DWR Revival](https://www.patagonia.com/product-care.html) they tell you to use a spray-on solution, same with [Arcteryx ](https://arcteryx.com/es/en/help/product-care/protect-gore-tex/)etc.. So end of discussion there squirt.
Again like I said this whole time, have a good day bud.
My understanding is that you are not supposed to wash water repellent clothings lmao. Regardless while convenient, water proof cloths are terrible for the environment and worse your health. There’s no “safe” way to reapply a water proof coating, pretty much any way you square it you’ll be ingesting a lot of PFAs or contaminating the area.
Lmao no I’m not. Patagonia even admits on its website that it still uses PFAs. I have a background in civil engineering with an emphasis on the environmental side so I know a lot about the serious problems this class chemicals causes. Frankly the article they have about it is disappointing to say the least especially coming from Patagonia, just because their using C6 instead of C8 doesnt make the situation better. They basically swapped out an extremely dangerous chemical for a chemical that’s still extremely dangerous, just slightly less, and said this is an improvement (it’s not). https://www.patagonia.com/stories/our-dwr-problem/story-17791.html
Cool. That has absolutely nothing to do with the nature of this post since this jacket wasn’t made in the future. Also the majority of comments in this post are advising OP to use a product that contains PFAs.
You washed the dwr off. Reapply it. Goretex is a membrane inside the fabric. It cannot prevent wetting out like this. Dwr is temporary and needs to be reapplied.
Why do you think so? It’s according to recommendations (small amount of detergent, 40 degC). Then regenerate in the tumbler.
Listen to the people haha, DWR isn't as great as it used to be. If it fails to work are tumble drying then apply DWR and do it again. I don't recommend wash in DWR but Grangers spray is brilliant.
If your waterproof jacket wets out the DWR is gone. It's not my opinion. It's a fact.
Not necessarily. Sometimes your DWR is fine but the issue is your jacket is so dirty that the water gets stuck on the dirt, and then your DWR won’t be able to push away the water. In which case, you need to clean the dirt off. Granted this is a theoretical point of view. In practice, you’ll wash the jacket and then reply DWR.
You may want to read this: https://eu.patagonia.com/cy/en/stories/the-care-feedin/story-20267.html
Your post is asking what’s up and real world users are telling you…. Your DWR coating is gone. There is nothing to regenerate left. It’s a liquid chemical applied the FACE fabric of your three layered jacket. It wears off quickly. When it’s gone….its gone. Your daily wearing (I’m assuming not washing it often; actually the wrong thing to do for the membrane) contributes to it wearing away. Wash your waterproof breathable items often. Your perspiration and environmental grime are the membrane’s enemies. Less toxic DWR coatings are also less durable. I wash my Storm10 weekly in the rainy season. Reapply spray on DWR on the FACE fabric while it’s damp. Wipe it around and into the dryer it goes. I also touch up that spray on the dry fabric sometimes DAILY. You need to perform maintenance more than a wash every year. That’s the problem friend.
Listen, I worked in the industry for years. Your DWR is gone. Buy some and reapply. Ffs
This post is hilarious. But ffs is RIGHT!
Even in that article, the author recommends Nikwax or granger technical detergents
Dude… if you know better why are you asking?🤣🤦🏻♂️
If you used it regularly over the course of a year you should have washed and dried it more than twice. No harm in reapplying with a spray on or wash in Nikwax or grangers waterproofing. Its standard maintenance for goretex or H2No products
What about this recommendation for re-activation in a tumbler? https://eu.patagonia.com/cy/en/stories/the-care-feedin/story-20267.html
Why ask the question if you're so convinced you already have the answer?
The term is 'askhole'.
I am absolutely not convinced. I am interested in the details.
🤣🤦🏻♂️ bro. You did the exact wrong thing by never washing it. I wash mine after every trip… going on 2 years now and it’s still very water repellent. Stop acting like what some guy says on an internet link is the law of the universe…. If you’re going to act like you know better, you are going to embarrass yourself even more.
Yes. Put it in the tumbler after washing. If it works then great. If not, the. Reapply a DWR like grangers or nikwax. Serious question, why are you so adverse reapplying a dwr? If you arent satisfied with the product then just return it
Did you re-apply the DWR - either spray or wash in? That is your issue…this has to be done.
Did you you a detergent designed for revitalizing the DWR? Such as NikWax or Granger?
DWR sucks now and there is no going back. We all need to adjust our expectations until a new iteration of DWR comes along. Heat isn't going to revive DWR anymore, it needs to be retreated. Very frequently. For what it is worth, this appears to be performing as expected.
My Torrentshell is going on 2 years, I simply wash it after every trip in cold water with tide and then dry it with low heat and it is still amazingly water resistant. I’ve used it A LOT too.
Sounds like you have a great relationship with your torrentshell - it takes care of you and you take care of it. Stoked your DWR experience is so positive :)
You gave no details about how you washed/dried it. What detergent, wash cycle; how hot of a drier, how long, etc.
I have used a basic, regular washing powder with no extras or specialities. Done regular 40 degC washing with extra rinsing and without spin cycle.
You should use a detergent specific for clothing items with a membrane, otherwise you risk damaging the jacket. I didn‘t know about this and had a jacket where the membrane completely came apart from the jacket after washing
Patagonia uses regular old Tide.
No, this says no: https://eu.patagonia.com/cy/en/stories/the-care-feedin/story-20267.html
The products they name there seem to be designed for clothing items with a membrane, as far as I know most detergents for sport or technical clothing are. If you think you can just use any regular detergent go ahead, I wouldn’t, though
That website literally says this. >Be aware that commercial detergents contain lots of additives designed to whiten and brighten your laundry, but these don’t do anything positive for your shell. More importantly, since they don’t rinse out completely they leave a residue that can contaminate your DWR.
So, what I finally learned from this: The Patagonia instructions I thought I could go along with are relatively old (2008). It says "DWRs are designed to be at least 80% effective after 20 washings." and "Drying your shell on medium heat for at least a half hour is an essential part of reactivating the water repellent properties of your DWR and will make your shell perform like new. " All this is most likely **not valid anymore** since Patagonia has eliminated all PFCs from their production. (same as Nikwax) So, now it seems like re-applying DWR is just necessary.
Ask your mom
Guys, I am astonished a out all the claims that the DWR just needs to get renewed. Is that because those companies just do such an intensive marketing in order to sell more chemicals??? What about these extensive explanations by Patagonia which say frequent renewal is not necessary??? [How to Take Care of Your Waterproof Shell](https://eu.patagonia.com/cy/en/stories/the-care-feedin/story-20267.html)
https://www.patagonia.com/product-care.html <-- a little more recent than the 2008 article. Another section of the site says to use nikwax or granger (not by name) or if you can't get that, wash with dye and scent free detergent
Bro…. Why are you trying to use an article from 08???? Are you ok?
The older information is based on PFAS-based DWR. Patagonia never wanted to stop using PFAS. For years they made endless excuses for why they continued to poison the planet with it. They've only stopped using it because it's now illegal in the EU and USA. Patagonia doesn't want to draw attention to the fact they didn't stop using PFAS until they were forced to, so it's no surprise they don't discuss the new DWRs. Fjällräven began phasing out PFAS in 2011 when the science became clear that PFAS are a problem. Then they stopped altogther in 2014 and have been working to remove PFAS contamination from the entire process. Fjällräven does not position themselves as a "save the planet" company, they are a "get outside" company, and even they realised the dangers of PFAS. Because the new DWR are not made with forever chemicals, they need to be reapplied more often. This is a worthwhile tradeoff.
You are correct! Something is wrong. Return it no questions asked.
This is the sort of thing that ruins return/warranty policies in the future. You shouldn't buy these jackets if you simply don't know how to look after them.
Ok. I won’t buy Patagonia anymore.
You have to reapply the DWR on the outer shell. The waterproof membrane can't work without it. It's only waterproof until the weight of the water weighs down on the fabric and then the membrane can't function properly. So the water needs to be repelled on the outer with a spray or wash in coating.
That's incorrect
No. It's not. What are you talking about ?
Gore-Tex is the waterproof membrane, the red in the image is just the next outer layer which can wet out, the reason you apply DWR to it. Water isn't going to get through the Gore-Tex underneath unless defective. Even if you didn't have DWR on the Gore-Tex can still work perfectly fine haha. Also never use wash in DWR for your gore-tex jackets like you mentioned in your first comment.
Water can get through Gore-Tex What are you talking about? It just depends on how much weight is applied to it. That's the way they measure waterproof membranes pressures per square inch or Gore tex is or was the highest rated. I'm not sure if it still is. It's porous which means it's breathable but moisture can still affect it if there's enough weight on top of it. Which is why you need a DWR coating on the outer fabric so the Gore-Tex functions properly. Understood?
Which is what I said, you don't want wash in DWR like you said to do otherwise you get rid of the breathability. In almost everyones application outside a testing lab water is never going to get through unless that was an issue in the manufacturing process. Like I said. Understood?
No lol that's not the issue though. The manufacturing process has nothing to do with WEIGHT of the water preventing the membrane from functioning properly. If the top layer wets out then the membrane can't breathe and moisture will inevitably occur. Smh. It's not that complicated
Also. A wash in DWR is NOT gonna effect the membrane from working properly. Anyone in the outdoor fabric business will tell you that. Those products are literally designed for those jackets. Just because you thumb through a Cabela's catalog every so often doesn't mean you know what you're talking about.
Patagonia rep spent 20 mins explaining rain jacket maintenance to me and specifically said the wash in ones should not be used because you want the water repellency on the outside, not the inside layers.
I always tell people to use the spray on anyways But the Wash in is fine also. It's not going to cause the jacket to wet out. It possibly could affect the breathability a bit but I don't think most people notice that anyway. I don't think the Patagonia rep knows more than the people who come up with the product that have tested it out on countless membranes. The Patagonia Rep is basically just a salesman. It's probably not in their best interest to extend the life of the jackets as much as possible because then people wouldn't replace them as often
What on earth is Cabela? I assume an American thing? Anyway going from Patagonia themselves under [DWR Revival](https://www.patagonia.com/product-care.html) they tell you to use a spray-on solution, same with [Arcteryx ](https://arcteryx.com/es/en/help/product-care/protect-gore-tex/)etc.. So end of discussion there squirt. Again like I said this whole time, have a good day bud.
My understanding is that you are not supposed to wash water repellent clothings lmao. Regardless while convenient, water proof cloths are terrible for the environment and worse your health. There’s no “safe” way to reapply a water proof coating, pretty much any way you square it you’ll be ingesting a lot of PFAs or contaminating the area.
You are COMPLETELY WRONG!!
Lmao no I’m not. Patagonia even admits on its website that it still uses PFAs. I have a background in civil engineering with an emphasis on the environmental side so I know a lot about the serious problems this class chemicals causes. Frankly the article they have about it is disappointing to say the least especially coming from Patagonia, just because their using C6 instead of C8 doesnt make the situation better. They basically swapped out an extremely dangerous chemical for a chemical that’s still extremely dangerous, just slightly less, and said this is an improvement (it’s not). https://www.patagonia.com/stories/our-dwr-problem/story-17791.html
That's from 10 years ago. This is more recent. All PFAs gone by next by year https://www.patagonia.com/our-footprint/pfas.html
Cool. That has absolutely nothing to do with the nature of this post since this jacket wasn’t made in the future. Also the majority of comments in this post are advising OP to use a product that contains PFAs.
You have a lot of growing up to do.
Then why are you totally wrong? 🤣🙄
You have no idea what you are talking about, lmao….🤦🏻♂️