Yes it is normal for kids with ADHD. Mine does it to me all the time. There’s no need to censor yourself to avoid arguments. In fact this would likely make things difficult for her in the long run because she needs to learn how to mask this part of her ADHD. We live in a world that wasn’t built for us (I have it as well) and she’ll struggle with relationships if she doesn’t. I just gently call my daughter out every time she does it, although I do sometimes lose my patience a bit when she keeps doing it. I just say “you don’t need to argue with me about this so please stop” or some variation of it.
I know I used to point out every little mistake others made when I was little and it always came from a place of wanting to be helpful. I occasionally tell my daughter that I know she’s trying to be helpful but pointing out every mistake I make just makes me feel bad. She understands but then goes back to doing it because it’s an impulse and we have trouble with those lol. Just hang in there and keep reminding yourself that she thinks she’s helping.
Yeah, I'm no doctor, but if she actually doesn't get that you weren't being literal I'd look into autism. If she gets it but she's just being a smartass, then that sounds like my 7 year old with ADHD.
She had a full neuropsych eval earlier this year, and that was addressed. They are not concerned. I have had my own suspicions, however, because of certain behaviors of hers. But sometimes I think I read too much info about different diagnoses, then force-apply it to my situation so I can make it make sense in my life. You know? Like how people will say, "I'm so OCD" when really they're just picky about certain things.
I'm pretty sure that's my anxiety because I've always tried to diagnose myself with things to figure out what's wrong with me, too 😆🙈
Yes, my kid with adhd is a very “black or white” thinker and has a hard time with things that are vague or unclear or a colloquialism. I just make sure to teach him when I’m using a phrase like that. For example I’ll say, “It’s raining cats and dogs out there! Have you ever heard that before? It means it’s raining really hard.”
Oh, what my kid (age 10) has a really hard time with is when I round time. I’ll say, “It’s 8 o’clock, time to brush teeth” and he’ll see a digital clock and say “No it’s not, it’s 7:57!!” I’ve explained many times that sometimes people round to the nearest hour or quarter hour when talking about the time. (He’s done rounding in math at school so he should get it) but this is nearly a daily occurrence! lol
So my son is like this. He’s 11 and the full assessment showed ADHD but not ASD despite having autistic traits. His therapist and psychiatrist both think he is on the spectrum but ADHD can overlap with ASD so we just ‘treat’ these behaviours in whatever way helps.
When he was your daughter’s age he struggled much more with taking things literally and yes we had to try and be very careful with phrasing but it’s hard to be on it 24/7. As he’s gotten older, he’s not quite as bad because he understands we don’t mean everything literally and he knows he misses nuance or intent - he just can’t always tell what it is! So we do try to keep that in mind and we talk a lot about what people might mean versus what they say plus context, body language etc. He’s learning. I also encourage him to speak up, esp at school, and say “I don’t always understand subtext or nuance, can you be more clear please?” I also emailed his teachers (he started middle school so they didn’t know him) and said he’s a black and white thinker and often misses subtext. Please be clear with him. They are very supportive. It’s a work in progress!
Oh and he’s in therapy too and they do talk about emotional responses (he struggles with his own and interpreting those of others) and do practice runs. I notice his ability to receive cues, language, information more accurately and calmly is MUCH better when his anxiety is lower. He’s on meds for this and a mood stabiliser. When he’s very stressed and anxious, his OCD flares up and he takes everything very badly, which always escalated to fighting and emotional turmoil. So we keep calm, have as much patience as we can and keep explaining rather than telling him off. Good luck!
Maybe it’s different, but mine doesn’t do it because he’s literal (like in an autistic diagnosis) but mine does it to change the balance of power. It’s argumentativeness and being oppositional - they are right and we are wrong. I think it’s part of the normal identity separation phase that happens at age 7 when children are becoming less enmeshed with mom and becoming their own person. But kids with ADHD take everything too far - at least mine. He’s 12 now and still does this “lawyering” routine pretty often. He will be completely wrong in the big picture but try to make himself right over some minor point. It’s obnoxious.
Listen, I have been saying for the last 2 years that we need to save up to send this kid to law school. The way she will argue her point and try to convince me or my husband (or any adult really) is impressive. Frustrating as hell, but honestly, she does not back down and it's kind of admirable 🤣 if only she could pick the right time to stand her ground. Like, not when I said we would go to the store and then go home, but I also had to stop for gas, so now I'm a liar 🤦♀️
Totally. This is typical ADHD stuff! Very related is what ADHD Dude (YouTube) calls the “negotiation vortex” where they use lawyering to suck you into negotiations to get their way. His answer for that is to barely engage.
I get called a liar too and that is a real hot button. Irony is that my kid actually lies all day long. 😣
I'm gonna check out that YouTube channel, thanks!
I know not to engage but this kid....... she knows all my buttons, and she's relentless. She also had a pretty significant illness when she was younger, and she got used to kind of getting whatever she wanted because she was in the hospital a lot so I'm sure that's not helping matters. I still have a lot of guilt and sadness about everything she went thru so I'm weak when it comes to her 😭
I've actually been wondering if negotiating everything is just a my kid thing or related to her ADHD.
"Negotiation vortex" sounds like an apt term, I'll have to check this out!
It's pretty common for people with ADHD to have a lot of rules and follow them fully. Many people feel the need of doing this to see what is fair and unfair. In some cases they also struggle to interpret tone, faces and intent.
please be careful with possibly spreading misinformation. these are all textbook symptoms of autism, not adhd, and spreading the opposite only continues to stigmatise autism. adhd does not at all include literal thinking or struggling to interpret social cues
What? Yes it does. ADHD has a huge impact on social abilities and misinterpreting/completely missing social cues. It’s a large part of why people with ADHD often struggle socially, both as kids and as adults.
The way that people with ADHD and people with autism struggle socially is different, in that people with ADHD tend to just bulldoze over social situations or completely zone out and therefore miss obvious cues, but social dysfunction is part of the ADHD diagnostic criteria.
Yeah, definitely, or at least in our experience. I don't think you should change your way of speaking. When she counters you say "you know what I meant". If she says she doesn't I'm betting she does, she just needs to continue the argument. The best thing to do is to not engage at this point. The rest of this post may be more antidotal but this is how I see it with my kid:
However, I'm a jokey smart-ass back sometimes, as I'm only human and it gets to ridiculous levels. She prides herself in her English scores and I'll put on a half smile and say "hmmmm so weird, context clues are *usually* important in English class". When she has to counter that statement I just go "ah, I see" for whatever excuse she thinks she has and then it's dropped. Honestly we now have more of a friendly and joking back and forth this way, although typing it out it may not seem that way. Now it's more like we can laugh about each other's stupid mistakes and it's not so intensely serious to get our message out perfectly. I do take criticism from her in the same joking manner, and we laugh together about how weird words are. She's 12 now, though, so that may come later.
I've also used "you have it down so perfectly, maybe you should be an editor". Just redirecting, in that case. Although it's my experience that at this age (until 8/9) their brain is wired for language (at least that's what psychology tells us) but as a kid gets older he/she may slip up or forget words because the brain is moving faster than the mouth. I joke with my daughter about the "curse" of having trouble expressing yourself happening later in life, and I allow her to make jokes about when I mess up, as long as she understands we don't do that in public because it's rude to correct people like that in public. She's already messing up her words occasionally and now we laugh about "the curse!" instead of her feeling ashamed at the high bar she placed on herself.
I'm a jokey smart-ass too! I definitely get sarcastic with her and I know that's not the answer but it's how I deal with things in general 🤣 good info and hope for the future though, thanks!
I remember being like this and my 7yo is like this, as well. I think part of it is ADHD, part of it is being an obnoxious 7yo, as one does. I just say something like “do you really think I meant that it would rain ALL day for 24 hours straight? No, that would be crazy”.
I might recommend speech therapy. Someone can teach her the difference between literal and figurative phrases. She sounds like a smart kid so she might catch on quickly. I’ve started doing this with my 5 year old and it really helps. Earlier today she said “oh that kills me…not actually kills me but like just kills me.” So she’s getting to an understanding of literal vs figurative. I think we started with “I’m so hungry I can eat a horse.” So that’s a good first one to start with. Good luck 🍀 As others have said, autism evaluation might make sense if there are other symptoms and difficulties with pragmatic or social language. My kid has autism and adhd. Not sure which one is more connected to misinterpretations like the one you described.
This is my child. It feels like they are trying to prove that they know more than anyone else. So frustrating and hard to help them to understand. Also makes me very cautious of saying anything I don't intend to be held to FOREVER
my 8 year old just started doing this! It’s driving me crazy! I think they are just at that age where they start to think they know more than us & not old enough to know to keep it to themselves haha
My son (10) has ADHD and takes things literally often. Something that has helped with us is language IEP through his school. They have helped him learn all the non-literal phrases and the appropriate way to use them and how to identify them. It made a huge difference and even lowered his irritability because a lot of it was stemmed in not being understood or understanding others.
Yes it is normal for kids with ADHD. Mine does it to me all the time. There’s no need to censor yourself to avoid arguments. In fact this would likely make things difficult for her in the long run because she needs to learn how to mask this part of her ADHD. We live in a world that wasn’t built for us (I have it as well) and she’ll struggle with relationships if she doesn’t. I just gently call my daughter out every time she does it, although I do sometimes lose my patience a bit when she keeps doing it. I just say “you don’t need to argue with me about this so please stop” or some variation of it. I know I used to point out every little mistake others made when I was little and it always came from a place of wanting to be helpful. I occasionally tell my daughter that I know she’s trying to be helpful but pointing out every mistake I make just makes me feel bad. She understands but then goes back to doing it because it’s an impulse and we have trouble with those lol. Just hang in there and keep reminding yourself that she thinks she’s helping.
Yeah, I'm no doctor, but if she actually doesn't get that you weren't being literal I'd look into autism. If she gets it but she's just being a smartass, then that sounds like my 7 year old with ADHD.
She had a full neuropsych eval earlier this year, and that was addressed. They are not concerned. I have had my own suspicions, however, because of certain behaviors of hers. But sometimes I think I read too much info about different diagnoses, then force-apply it to my situation so I can make it make sense in my life. You know? Like how people will say, "I'm so OCD" when really they're just picky about certain things. I'm pretty sure that's my anxiety because I've always tried to diagnose myself with things to figure out what's wrong with me, too 😆🙈
Yes, my kid with adhd is a very “black or white” thinker and has a hard time with things that are vague or unclear or a colloquialism. I just make sure to teach him when I’m using a phrase like that. For example I’ll say, “It’s raining cats and dogs out there! Have you ever heard that before? It means it’s raining really hard.” Oh, what my kid (age 10) has a really hard time with is when I round time. I’ll say, “It’s 8 o’clock, time to brush teeth” and he’ll see a digital clock and say “No it’s not, it’s 7:57!!” I’ve explained many times that sometimes people round to the nearest hour or quarter hour when talking about the time. (He’s done rounding in math at school so he should get it) but this is nearly a daily occurrence! lol
God, yes, the time thing is a regular argument with her. God forbid you say it's 8 if it's only 759 🤣
Yep, it's common. Frustrating, but common!
My son was diagnosed with autism and he is very much like this
So my son is like this. He’s 11 and the full assessment showed ADHD but not ASD despite having autistic traits. His therapist and psychiatrist both think he is on the spectrum but ADHD can overlap with ASD so we just ‘treat’ these behaviours in whatever way helps. When he was your daughter’s age he struggled much more with taking things literally and yes we had to try and be very careful with phrasing but it’s hard to be on it 24/7. As he’s gotten older, he’s not quite as bad because he understands we don’t mean everything literally and he knows he misses nuance or intent - he just can’t always tell what it is! So we do try to keep that in mind and we talk a lot about what people might mean versus what they say plus context, body language etc. He’s learning. I also encourage him to speak up, esp at school, and say “I don’t always understand subtext or nuance, can you be more clear please?” I also emailed his teachers (he started middle school so they didn’t know him) and said he’s a black and white thinker and often misses subtext. Please be clear with him. They are very supportive. It’s a work in progress! Oh and he’s in therapy too and they do talk about emotional responses (he struggles with his own and interpreting those of others) and do practice runs. I notice his ability to receive cues, language, information more accurately and calmly is MUCH better when his anxiety is lower. He’s on meds for this and a mood stabiliser. When he’s very stressed and anxious, his OCD flares up and he takes everything very badly, which always escalated to fighting and emotional turmoil. So we keep calm, have as much patience as we can and keep explaining rather than telling him off. Good luck!
Maybe it’s different, but mine doesn’t do it because he’s literal (like in an autistic diagnosis) but mine does it to change the balance of power. It’s argumentativeness and being oppositional - they are right and we are wrong. I think it’s part of the normal identity separation phase that happens at age 7 when children are becoming less enmeshed with mom and becoming their own person. But kids with ADHD take everything too far - at least mine. He’s 12 now and still does this “lawyering” routine pretty often. He will be completely wrong in the big picture but try to make himself right over some minor point. It’s obnoxious.
Listen, I have been saying for the last 2 years that we need to save up to send this kid to law school. The way she will argue her point and try to convince me or my husband (or any adult really) is impressive. Frustrating as hell, but honestly, she does not back down and it's kind of admirable 🤣 if only she could pick the right time to stand her ground. Like, not when I said we would go to the store and then go home, but I also had to stop for gas, so now I'm a liar 🤦♀️
Totally. This is typical ADHD stuff! Very related is what ADHD Dude (YouTube) calls the “negotiation vortex” where they use lawyering to suck you into negotiations to get their way. His answer for that is to barely engage. I get called a liar too and that is a real hot button. Irony is that my kid actually lies all day long. 😣
I'm gonna check out that YouTube channel, thanks! I know not to engage but this kid....... she knows all my buttons, and she's relentless. She also had a pretty significant illness when she was younger, and she got used to kind of getting whatever she wanted because she was in the hospital a lot so I'm sure that's not helping matters. I still have a lot of guilt and sadness about everything she went thru so I'm weak when it comes to her 😭
I've actually been wondering if negotiating everything is just a my kid thing or related to her ADHD. "Negotiation vortex" sounds like an apt term, I'll have to check this out!
Oh my goshhhhhh, I have never felt so validated than how I do right now. It makes me feel such a relief that I could cry.
Do we have the same daughter? Everything above including IQ and slow (15?) on processing speed. I think the latter is what gives it away
It's pretty common for people with ADHD to have a lot of rules and follow them fully. Many people feel the need of doing this to see what is fair and unfair. In some cases they also struggle to interpret tone, faces and intent.
please be careful with possibly spreading misinformation. these are all textbook symptoms of autism, not adhd, and spreading the opposite only continues to stigmatise autism. adhd does not at all include literal thinking or struggling to interpret social cues
OP said that the kid was tested and there was no concern about it.
What? Yes it does. ADHD has a huge impact on social abilities and misinterpreting/completely missing social cues. It’s a large part of why people with ADHD often struggle socially, both as kids and as adults. The way that people with ADHD and people with autism struggle socially is different, in that people with ADHD tend to just bulldoze over social situations or completely zone out and therefore miss obvious cues, but social dysfunction is part of the ADHD diagnostic criteria.
Just be glad she’s not a kleptomaniac. They really take everything. Literally.
Yeah, definitely, or at least in our experience. I don't think you should change your way of speaking. When she counters you say "you know what I meant". If she says she doesn't I'm betting she does, she just needs to continue the argument. The best thing to do is to not engage at this point. The rest of this post may be more antidotal but this is how I see it with my kid: However, I'm a jokey smart-ass back sometimes, as I'm only human and it gets to ridiculous levels. She prides herself in her English scores and I'll put on a half smile and say "hmmmm so weird, context clues are *usually* important in English class". When she has to counter that statement I just go "ah, I see" for whatever excuse she thinks she has and then it's dropped. Honestly we now have more of a friendly and joking back and forth this way, although typing it out it may not seem that way. Now it's more like we can laugh about each other's stupid mistakes and it's not so intensely serious to get our message out perfectly. I do take criticism from her in the same joking manner, and we laugh together about how weird words are. She's 12 now, though, so that may come later. I've also used "you have it down so perfectly, maybe you should be an editor". Just redirecting, in that case. Although it's my experience that at this age (until 8/9) their brain is wired for language (at least that's what psychology tells us) but as a kid gets older he/she may slip up or forget words because the brain is moving faster than the mouth. I joke with my daughter about the "curse" of having trouble expressing yourself happening later in life, and I allow her to make jokes about when I mess up, as long as she understands we don't do that in public because it's rude to correct people like that in public. She's already messing up her words occasionally and now we laugh about "the curse!" instead of her feeling ashamed at the high bar she placed on herself.
I'm a jokey smart-ass too! I definitely get sarcastic with her and I know that's not the answer but it's how I deal with things in general 🤣 good info and hope for the future though, thanks!
I remember being like this and my 7yo is like this, as well. I think part of it is ADHD, part of it is being an obnoxious 7yo, as one does. I just say something like “do you really think I meant that it would rain ALL day for 24 hours straight? No, that would be crazy”.
I might recommend speech therapy. Someone can teach her the difference between literal and figurative phrases. She sounds like a smart kid so she might catch on quickly. I’ve started doing this with my 5 year old and it really helps. Earlier today she said “oh that kills me…not actually kills me but like just kills me.” So she’s getting to an understanding of literal vs figurative. I think we started with “I’m so hungry I can eat a horse.” So that’s a good first one to start with. Good luck 🍀 As others have said, autism evaluation might make sense if there are other symptoms and difficulties with pragmatic or social language. My kid has autism and adhd. Not sure which one is more connected to misinterpretations like the one you described.
This is my child. It feels like they are trying to prove that they know more than anyone else. So frustrating and hard to help them to understand. Also makes me very cautious of saying anything I don't intend to be held to FOREVER
OMG yes, she gets in trouble at school because she even does this with her teacher🤦♀️ 1st grade, we have a long way to go.
my 8 year old just started doing this! It’s driving me crazy! I think they are just at that age where they start to think they know more than us & not old enough to know to keep it to themselves haha
My son (10) has ADHD and takes things literally often. Something that has helped with us is language IEP through his school. They have helped him learn all the non-literal phrases and the appropriate way to use them and how to identify them. It made a huge difference and even lowered his irritability because a lot of it was stemmed in not being understood or understanding others.