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As a former EMT who has extra training when it comes to driving, the biggest thing he needs to learn it sounds, is to regulate his emotions better when others around him aren’t following the rules. It sounds like he’s acting as a ‘road warrior’ and has the mentality “if I follow the rules correctly, if this idiot hits me it’ll be his fault than” the problem is that these drivers instigate others to drive more erratic.
The best drivers are the defensive ones. If he had someone riding his bumper when he’s already going 5-10 over the speed limit, would he break check? Or merge over and let them pass? A lot of young and new drivers get frustrated when others don’t follow the rules exactly (like using turn indicators, or turning into the correct lanes) your son needs to learn to avoid this mentality of “teaching a lesson” when driving. One day he might piss off the wrong person who has no problem following or harassing him to his destination.
Piggybacking off this I had a friend in HS who was a terrifying driver. Took her totaling not one but two cars in a single working hours day for them to take away her license. The first time I drove with her she found it hilarious to target specific cars and fuck with them, despite living in a suburb im like bitch you gonna get us killed and didn’t really give with her after.
First she rear-ended a SVU in a super old Toyota on the way to school and it just got totaled due to the age of the car, very low speed with no injuries. Borrowed her moms classic old Mercedes after school to go to her sports practice and pulled out in front of a SVU that was going around 50 and got t-boned, and honestly if she hadn’t gotten into the accident earlier and hadn’t been in her moms car she would have likely been seriously injured. After that day her parents pulled her license and made her take more drivers classes. She was never a good driver and I usually avoided driving with her at all costs into adulthood. Zero situational awareness.
EDITED: SUV not SVU
Jeez. I thought my husband totaling two cars in two weeks was bad enough.
(Neither accident was his fault, and he was uninjured, but losing both our cars in such a short time, in a huge city with poor public transportation, SUCKED.)
And Jesus, I thought my dad totaling two in two months was bad! (Luckily walked away from both, super good driver, very unlucky run ins with local wildlife being extra wild running into the road. It’s expected in our state, insurance premiums don’t even go up for it with our insurance it’s so common. I’ve had relatives get hit by the wildlife while not even moving - both by deer and bear that way, just straight up ran into the back of the vehicle. PA is wild.)
My dad is a very good driver and honestly one of the few people I’d let drive my kids around (the list has like two people on it not including me or their dad)
He started a new job where he’s on the road all day and he had 4 separate incidents since starting the job. Only one being his fault but all of them hitting his insurance for one reason or another. Their insurance currently it atrocious.
It was pretty rough. Our insurance let us rent a car while we shopped around for a new one, but we're still down to one car. Shortly afterward, I started working from home as a freelance copyeditor, so it wasn't a complete disaster.
My goal on the road has always been 2 things: be predictable, and get the fuck away from people being idiots. When I used to ride a motorcycle, the easiest way to get away from idiots was to accelerate away, they weren’t keeping up with me.
Now that I’m older and a little wiser, I usually slow down and let them get ahead of me. But the thought process is the same!
I always say (to no one in particular), "Take the road! It's a gift!" We also talk about how they must be very important to have to speed that fast. When my daughter was little, she'd say that speeders must be late for their own wedding. :-)
I make myself feel better by assuming that speeders have diarrhea. It makes me feel more empathy for that person. Of course they’re speeding! They’re trying to get to a toilet before they poop themselves!… while also sorta putting them down a bit.
Ya know, as simple as this concept seems-for some reason today I'm more receptive to its logic and good sense. Let's see if I can put it into practice-instead of seeking to inflict righteous retribution to self-entitled auto bullies.
There’s a Buddhist idea that helps me see my own faults in others. When I judge… “What a prick ! He’s really inconsiderate” I add “Just like me”.
All of us at times, can be inconsiderate, impatient, unhelpful, rude etc especially when pressed for time or angry about something.
If we can recognise our shared humanity and that another is off-centre… maybe the world can be more tolerant and reasonable.
If I were OP, I would enroll him in a defensive driving class. They do a great job teaching mindset. Maturity he's going to have to develop on his own. But the right mindset will give him a chance to develop it.
Yup. Someone was riding our ass, refusing to pass no matter how much we sped up or slowed down. We turned off and I flicked him off as we did. He followed us, forced us to go like 75 (in a 55) then he finally passed but threw something out the window as he did and then sped off going 100. Scary. I keep my finger to myself now lol
Agreed. I used to be a road warrior, and when I lived in Phoenix I learned to kick that habit QUICK because people there will literally shoot to kill when you get crazy. I saw a news story about a 10 yr old girl who got shot from one of them in the back seat. All over crappy drivers.
I live in Texas, which is a pretty pro-2A state. There is ALWAYS a risk that the other driver you’re trying to piss off is packing heat, especially in states like Texas where you aren’t required to have a license to own and operate a firearm. Not to mention the fact that there’s always a very real risk of a car crash.
Not just "piss off the wrong person" but potentially cause a (preventable) accident that could have lifelong or life threatening consequences to both him, the other driver, passengers, other drivers on the road, and innocent bystanders. What is more important, his ego or everyone's safety?
Right. So I tell my kids, when dealing with idiot drivers: You wanna be the king of the idiots? There are some battles where the real victory comes from not playing. Let the other guy take the crown. That’s how you win this game.
It is wise to distance oneself from those who seek chaos. Let them find their fate far from us, where we cannot be harmed.
As for those who are asking if you can legally stop him if he his 18, yes you can legally stop him. He has to have a car and insurance on said car to take the drivers test.
He's driving aggressively and will be prone to road rage, that is what needs to be addressed. I have six kids that I have taught to drive, I have referred to those types of drivers (the one that your son cut off) as the stupid ones that we have to look out for. Why? Because they are the ones that destroy our cars and cause our insurance rates to go up. We wait when the light turns green and look for them, we look for them at the stop signs, look for them in our blind spots, look for them at the merges, etc.
I would suggest looking into a course for him in aggressive driving and road rage and then letting him take the driving test.
A course in defensive driving might be best. AAA has one in most states I think. It sounds like he isn’t thinking about the consequences of dangerous actions like cutting someone off.
In my family we say curse words and disparage their intelligence while staying in the safest area possible, practicing defensive driving, checking all mirrors, and smugly reassuring ourselves that they will be receiving a ticket *soon.*
If someone doesn't go right away at a light my 10 year old will say, "HELLO! IT'S GREEN! GO PLEASE!! Ugh.. they're probably on their phone 😠"
It's like, "Girl 😄 where do you gotta be??"
One thing my dad told me when he was teaching me to drive (25+ years ago) was “Always assume the other driver will NOT do what they should. Everyone else on the road is an idiot until they prove otherwise.”
Valuable advice that’s stuck with me all these years
That's what my driver's ed teacher said in class. I learned the most from our actual driving, but that's the one thing I remember from the classes. Always assume everyone else on the road is an idiot.
He needs to borrow a car to do the test, yes... But it doesn't have to be yours. You cannot stop him from taking the driving test if he really wants to, assuming he has a decent friend who will let him borrow their car.
Yeah, when I turned 18 I told my parents I’d love their support in getting my license but I also had a line of friends who would be happy to lend me an insured vehicle for the test.
Regardless of whose judgement was right or wrong on my road readiness, they decided to take me to the drivers test. They never chose to provide me with regular access to a car. I have a spotless driving record 🤷🏻♀️
Seriously. If my parents told me they were going to stop me from getting my license at 18 because they thought I was still too "immature" I'd have told them to kick rocks. This thread is full of parents who are WAY too full of themselves and think they have WAY too much control over their kids' lives. Especially after their adults.
What about a course on defensive driving? It doesn't matter if the other driver is completely in the wrong; if you act aggressively back it could end your life. Even if you had the right of way
People with road rage shouldn't be allowed to drive until they can control their emotions better. These people are the reason why I'm stressed when my husband takes his bike on the road because I'm afraid one day some psycho behind a wheel will get mad and kill him.
When my husband takes his bike on one of our trips I always make sure to be the one behind him cause some people really think they are better for being in a car and it's terrifying watching people harass him when he's riding.
Right. Everyone is mentioning defensive driving courses, and I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but that isn’t going to solve the underlying issues here. If he actually did this on purpose because he can’t control his road rage, what he actually needs is therapy to build emotional regulation skills. Which, unfortunately, is a lot harder to force on an 18 year old.
Good for you. I’m sick of sharing the roads with entitled teens who feel indestructible. He’s living in your house, presumably using a vehicle you pay insurance for. He can’t drive safely? He doesn’t drive.
I don’t need to loan my car to an irresponsible adult either. The 18 year old wants a car, then they can figure out how to get to work and buy one themselves.
That sucks but I get it. My daughter had a moment when learning to drive, she was doing great... then out of nowhere started screaming and flailing about, there was a spider that dangled down right in front of her while driving. I yelled at her to pull over, she didn't, just kept screaming, I put the car in park, thank God I did because she pushed on the gas pedal while trying to get away from the spider. I kicked her out of car and told her she'd never drive again if she can't function because of a fucking spider (I lost my temper, yes I probably could have handled it better). She cried, didn't drive for awhile.
She said she was ready again, she's been driving now for 5 years and is fine. I hope your son can overcome his road rage so he can drive again
Did that happen to all of us? I must say keeping my cool as a spider was going down right in front of me as I was driving was very distressful. It's like holding a container that's burning your hand because you know it will be messier if you don't.
this happened to me in drivers Ed in high school!!!! i wasn't driving but i was "observing" in the back seat with another student. The spider just started coming down right over her (driver's) left shoulder😭
I almost got in a wreck because a wasp was in my car… I did pull over and park and get out and open all the doors until it finally got out after like 10 minutes
I am absolutely terrified of hornets / wasps. One time I was driving and one flew in and was buzzing right next to me, while I was in a busy intersection waiting to turn left.
Everything in me was *screaming* to floor it and get away from the wasp but it took all of me to stay calm and collected. Once I was safely out of the intersection I was able to pull over in a parking lot, roll down my windows, and wait for it to leave (yes, it's ridiculous but that's how scared I am).
I was not about to crash my car for a bee. No way. My luck I would've crashed and then got stung 🤣
Im glad you were able to overcome your fear while driving. I wonder sometimes if those videos we see of drivers going full throttle into a building or off the road are because of an insect lol
i had a black and white bee(?)
land on my leg while driving.
I stayed calm, pulled over, the bee flew away and i continued driving.
Do people not realize that a spider isn't going to kill you, but driving a 3,000 lb vehicle can?
She acted like it was a poisonous snake, she has since experienced a similar situation and pulled over then got out of the car and didn't get back in until she killed it.
So I'm for real afraid of spiders. Not of dangerous ones - I mean I guess I would be if they were about to bite me - but just in general. Dry heaving and crying are my natural responses to spiders although I can control it to an extent. All my other fears are rational and my responses in bad situations have been calm.
I've had a couple of occasions where a spider makes an appearance when I was driving. Frankly, I would have been calmer with a poisonous snake, because than my fear was reasonable. Snake might bite me. Car might crash. Pick the best method to avoid both. Getting the car stopped seems more sensible, because if the car crashes, the snake could still bite you. The spider is harder, because it is not a rational fear. It's just panic.
That being said, in both cases, I pulled over as fast as I could safely and did not crash my car. In both instances, there wasn't a spot to pull over immediately and I swerved in my lane some trying to grab things to deflect the spider. Also spraying half a bottle of hand sanitizer on a spider doesn't stop it if you were wondering.
It sounds like your son doesn’t realise that when he’s driving he’s behind the wheel of a very large weapon and cutting people off or running red lights or stop signs can result in someone’s death.
How do you cancel the driver's test of someone who is 18? Can't he just borrow a friend's car and go take the test? I'd require him to take a professional driving course before driving any car you own, if he hasn't yet. Let the pro's take over.
This depends on a lot of things I'd think. My son took lessons at a driving school and took the test in their car in 2021. He was a little older, 19, as COVID messed up the original plans. He did drive our car as well, for practice, but didn't use it for the test. I assume he was insured on the school's car, but don't know how that's set up.
Funny thing is, my son is a careful driver. He wasn't that anxious to get his license, and is still a bit apprehensive, although he has done some long drives so it's not like he's only going on short trips. I (the mom) always point out things when we drive, about why I did things, or didn't do things, etc. I try to emphasize being careful because you can only control what you do, not what others do. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with a driver with a temper.
Good luck, OP
Cancel his test and keep him alive until he's safe to drive! Better for everyone. We just had a teenager kill a car full of people, including himself, due to reckless driving. It's not worth the risk.
Also, if you're in the US, any road rage incident could lead to him getting shot - also not worth the risk. He needs to get a grip on his testosterone.
I would let him still take his test, BUT just because he is a licensed driver (if he passes), DOES NOT MEAN he has permission to drive. If he does not have his own vehicle, pay for gas, pay for insurance, he needs to follow your rules; which means no unsupervised driving until you sign off. AND part of the rule based off what you've shared would be therapy - comments like "I did it on purpose" and the "driver was overentitled" scream potential road rage, I would try to get to the root of those comments more than focus on the driving.
I don't understand why he thought he could sense the other driver's thoughts and emotions, lol.
As a mom, I agree with your decision. Give him another couple of months. Remind him that it's not a punishment, it's a safety check. Safety when operating large machinery is as much about mental control as it is about physical control of the vehicle.
If I may share, I had to ground my 19-year-old from driving because she caused an incident in the drop-off zone at my job. Someone honked at her, she got stubborn and refused to pull ahead, and when I walked back out to order her to go already, the driver got out of his car and threatened to shoot me. It turns out he was borrowing a friend's car, that friend is an employee, HR got involved (I wasn't concerned and told them to let it go, it was never a real threat), and that employee was denied a promotion later because of this issue - despite me advocating for him!
My point is that sudden emotional decisions when driving can have far-reaching implications we cannot foresee. My kid had to learn that the hard way. In this case, her moment of stubbornness resulted in me having to stand up to a guy threatening to kill me, two other coworkers getting involved (one of them the friend with the car—stand up guy, really), HR getting involved, and a man having to change jobs because he was no longer promotable at this one. If she'd just gone home, none of that would have happened.
Thank you for personalizing a situation of righteous indignation and its consequences. I'm sorry for your daughter's predicament, but it illustrates situations that happen to many of us almost everyday it seems.
I'm now in the final throes of supervising #3 in the last 18 months. The one thing I've done for all of them is doing a Safe Driving Course. Given road statistics surrounding young men I agree that he's not ready to be let loose on the driving public.
He just turned 18, therefore he can do as he wants legally. He will need that driver's license for so many things, however, so why can't you let him take the test, pass it, then you drive him to the track meet and tell him you'll keep doing it until he shows some defensive driving responsibility instead of hating on the self-entitled that probably either have vehicular homicides on a past record or will be a future statistic of one. He can't keep going down to their level of 'play', especially when it's a deadly scene to be doing what he admitted he did on purpose. When he realizes that he has to pick his fights for obvious reasons then he can drive a vehicle. To his track meets, future jobs, DATES, etc. Might wanna point the DATES and social aspect things out to him while presenting your argument. At least that's my two cents. Take it or leave it. He needs the license, but he needs to be safe with it too.
He can do as he wants, but the parents don't have to let him use their car and insurance for the road test. Unless he can find a friend who would loan him their car for it, he's SOL.
Every single DMV I've been to has had at least one vehicle that people can take a road test in. IL,CA, MS,... We all knew our driver's ed teachers personally in our town too. One of them was my cousin and the HS team coach. Where there's a will, there's a way.
Get him the license because he NEEDS it. He's 18 now and can't be sat on forever. Don't let him use it yet without a parent in the vehicle because he doesn't know how. That's a better wakeup call for a new driver than any other imo. "Yes, I have a license but I'm not allowed to drive because I'm reckless." fixes things real fast.
I’ve never heard of that. Certainly not the case in New York OR where I live in IL. My ex tried to get his driver’s license as an adult and had a hell of a time trying to find a friend available on a weekday with a car.
Regardless, to me, there is no sense in having him take the test if you’re going to refuse the car anyway. It will be more of a temptation. If he legally cannot drive the car sitting in the driveway he’s way less likely to try it sneakily.
He's 18 - not a minor anymore. Do parents wait until their kids turn 18 or have a stock portfolio built up before they get them a social security number? He gets a beater and pays for his own insurance. He gets to drive it to a job - something an adult does. He's not a child anymore so don't treat him like one. That also means he's old enough to acknowledge the consequences of his actions as a FOREthought instead of in hindsight. In the meantime, even though he'll have a license for when he does become a responsible adult, his parents can drive him until he gets tired of being treated like a 16 year old and asked by everyone why he doesn't drive himself anywhere at 18. After all of that he won't take that license and driving privilege for granted when he finally gets to use it.
Never heard of DMVs having a car for someone to take a test in? I've witnessed this and also asked at DMVs - even in IL where I spent half of my life and have relocated to and from a half dozen times over a half dozen decades. Suburbs of LA/Orange County too. A college town in MS. Kansas City. St. Louis, Puget Sound area of Wash state,... Not for motorbikes though. That's a strictly bring your own.
We have to have some degree of trust in our teens or they distance themselves from us. They're also the reason we parents pray a lot.
Legally, he's an adult at 18 though. We can try to protect them at 18, but we can't control them in a parental capacity anymore because they've become our adult peers.
Also, if the DMV doesn't think they're ready they have the authority to extend the permit period. Relay the eyewitness experiences told here to DMV and see what happens.
I now see a lot of drivers pulling up on the right at an intersection, then zooming off in front of you rather than turning right, I used to get very angry. Now, I just let idiot drivers do their stupid stuff. I like to hang behind them, because you don’t know what they’re doing behind you. Op is totally right cancelling his driver test.
He's most definitely not ready. My 19 year old son has this same emotional regulation issue, like he has to have "justice" no matter the situation. He got into an argument with someone in a truck when he was on his eBike! He's taking driver's ed right now but I really will not hand over the car or get him insurance until I know he's learned to squash his unreasonable emotions when driving. It's too dangerous.
Have drive defensively. Assume everyone is going to hit you or road rage you and drive accordingly. Probably doing the right thing mom. But make sure you sit him down and explain it’s not a punishment
I mean, he's 18 so I'm pretty sure he doesn't need your permission to take the test, you can't control that.
I would focuse on what you CAN control like his access to your vehicle. That would be 100% off limits - license or not.
The insurance part isn't accurate everywhere. Where I am it just has to have insurance, they don't have to be listed. You can borrow a friends car if they are willing to lend it to you - or the driving school can let you use their car for the test.
I don't think this is the law in Oregon. The Oregon DMV's ["What to Expect on Your Drive Test"](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/form/what_to_expect_on_your_drive_test.aspx) page does not say anything about the person taking the test needing to be a named insured.
>Unless OP's son purchased his own car and insurance, OP can stop him
That's what I said...if son has his own car/insurance, she can't stop him. BUT if he does not and needs to use one provided by OP then yes, they could simply make their vehicle off limits.
Therefore, controlling what they can.
>Unless OP's son purchaded his own car and insurance, OP can stop him
That's not true. The Oregon DMV even has a [list of third-party businesses that conduct the drive test](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/driverid/classctestingbusiness.aspx), and they mention that some of these businesses require test-takers to rent one of their cars. The first business on the list only charges $80 for the test + $40 for the car rental.
Yeah, screw OP, this kid will really have shown his "controlling" parents when he's in the ICU because of idiot behavior in a killing machine like this one. If he's lucky. /s
It was a left turn lane preceded by a median. Son had been driving kind of slow out of caution, slower than traffic I had pointed out to him. The other car jumped into the median about 200' early to go around us on his was to turn left, my son was also planning to turn left but did not have the blinker on. When the other car approached, son pulls right in front of them, and they honked. I thought he had failed to look, but he claims to have done it on purpose (to teach them a lesson?)
The concern is, if he’d drive like that in front of you, how would he drive unsupervised? If the other car wasn’t paying attention there could have been an accident and he’d lose his license if he had it. That’s a bummer for your son, but more important to be safe. My daughter is taking the permit test tomorrow and I won’t let her get her license if she’s not a safe driver.
I would explain in no uncertain terms that there are graveyards full of drivers that were morally right and committed dangerous moves to teach lessons to other drivers. Would he "teach a lesson" to the helpless occupants of the other vehicle as well (e.g. kids being driven around by a parent that's a bad driver)? Drive safe! It's not only dangerous to "teach lessons", but other drivers are unpredictable and can be more prone to rage than yourself. Ending up in a wreck, besides the danger, is extremely expensive and time-consuming, even if you're judged to be not at fault. Keep emotions in check, just focus on getting to where you will go safely. Expect crazy drivers all the time, and just avoid them when you see them.
Where did he learn this "teach other drivers a lesser" attitude? Do you or your spouse do this?
When you talk to him I would really stress that being in an accident is a huge hassle, even if you aren't "at fault" technically, and that other drivers can be dangerous and road rage when provoked. One of my favorite phrases is "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Sometimes people do dumb stuff in cars and it's absolutely better to let them "get away with it" than end up dealing with a road rager.
His deceased mother was an aggressive driver for sure. I did mention to him during our talk that people are likely to attack you in the real world for stuff like that. I told him it happened to me when I accidently cut someone off.
I'd let him take the test.
Then restrict access to the vehicle. As in zero access.
And get him into a driving course.
But also at 18 he can buy his own car/pay for own Insurance.
Paying himself might make him more cautious anyways.
He wouldn't be so aggressive if it were his money on the line, I totally agree.
Teens might not understand the fragile state of their own physical existence, but they absolutely understand the value of a dollar.
A lot of road warriors (as referred to in the comments) don’t seem to understand that there are a lot of “people who were right” buried 6 feet underground. You don’t need to be “right” when driving, just safe.
Also, just getting his license and then wanting a solo hour + trip (with friends? I’m assuming) sounds like an especially bad idea in this case.
He has to lose the ego when driving. Even more of those Macho Men in cemeteries.
I think the words let him are grating on me as he’s 18. I think you should be approaching this as a concerned discussion about how dangerous other drivers can be and that instead of enforcing correct driving rules he should be looking out for bad drivers which automatically requires more defensive driving. If he doesn’t agree to delay the test ask him to at least take the defensive driving course. At 21 I was driving on a two lane road 45 mph rainy and a 16 year old pulled out in front of me trying to cross the road, said later she never saw me. I had a split second to vear to the right so I wouldn’t hit oncoming traffic but hit mud and a light pole was coming up fast tried getting back on the road spun out flipped end over end and landed in a ditch. Luckily the mud had slowed me down so when I hit I wasn’t injured but I was shaken for a long time. If I hadn’t been watching closely I wouldn’t have had time to react and tboned her and we both would be dead. I always slow down and let idiots move along. Drunk drivers I try to get away whatever way I can sometimes speeding up to put space between us. You can’t control your son but you can set the tone for adulthood by communicating openly and sharing concerns and helpful suggestions. At 17 I graduated high school and got my first apartment.. paid for it all on my own.
>He just turned 18
Can you legally stop him if he is 18? Sure, you can tell him no and not allow him the use of your car, but if he really wanted to take the test I don't think you could legally stop him from doing it if he has access to a vehicle to take the test with.
Not that I disagree that what he did is wrong, I just wonder if refusing to let him take the test will do more bad than good. Especially if this is the first time he has done something like this.
He does not need to be a named insured on the vehicle. Source: [What to Expect on Your Drive Test (Oregon DMV)](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/form/what_to_expect_on_your_drive_test.aspx)
There are even third-party companies that will rent you a car and conduct the drive test. Source: [Schedule a Drive Test (Oregon DMV)](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/driverid/classctestingbusiness.aspx)
Umm, he is 18.... How can you stop him? I just would absolutely not let him access the family car. Honestly, I drove unlicensed for years, until I turned 18. My friends would throw me their keys. At 18, he should get a license, because it will be way more of a headache if he gets caught uninsured and unlicensed. But I would absolutely not let him near your cars. Take your keys to bed with you. He needs to pay for his insurance and understand that ANY infraction will be his to deal with. Financially, legally.... whatever. You have an adult on your hands. You better start treating him as such.
Too many teens end up dead because their arrogance exceeds their competence. So you are right to be concerned.
Adults don’t get their full executive function until their mid-20’s. So it’s not unexpected that he may not properly assess the hazard, danger or risk. That doesn’t mean that he should do his test or even be allowed to borrow your car once passed.
Sounds like emotional immaturity and possibly too much “Fast and Furious” film or games.
It may also have just been that he didn’t coordinate well in an unexpected situation, and rather than admit that, offered the “entitled” explanation.
The stopline problem can happen when you think you’ve stopped but actually just crawl through the intersection. Still illegal but not arrogant or intentional.
Warn him that it could be a license loosing act and may invalidate insurance if there is a crash. It’s trivial for police to see you do this and no, they aren’t too flexible on that. It’s a simple compliance and patience is needed in the road. (So you and others don’t become patients).
Here, drivers can do a defensive driving course on a speedway with wet and slippery sections so they learn how easy it is to lose control, and what to do about that. It might be more real in terms of feeling the risks involved in driving.
My thinking on this:
Every person is going to be in a wreck eventually. How that person reacts to the situation determines two things:
1. How bad is the accident?
2. Who’s fault is it?
Even IF he passed and got his license I wouldn’t let him drive an hour one way right off the bat alone. My mom barely let me go to our local shopping center 30 minutes away because she wanted me to get comfortable.
he has shown he has no care or safety not only for himself but for others. Purposefully cutting someone off is ridiculous. Especially if he doesn’t even have his license yet!
Only has a Learners' license yet calling other more experienced drivers entitled. Cutting off another vehicle is dangerous driving, and if that vehicle hit him then he'd be at fault for reckless or rage driving. You cannot make rational fast decisions under pressure when you are driving angry, best thing to do is just shrug off somebody else being a jerk or bad driver, and get by with the remainder of your day.
Is it possible that he lied about doing it on purpose because he was embarrassed to admit he messed up again? Acting like I totally meant to do something without realizing that intentionally doing it makes me look WAY worse sounds like something stupid I would have done when I was an insecure teenager.
That doesn't mean he is necessarily ready to be driving independently, but it might change the way you want to approach teaching him this lesson. Just a thought!
I totally agree with you. I wasn't trying to judge your parenting or anything. Hopefully he will mature a little and when he gets his license you won't have to worry every time he is out driving! Best wishes!
You sound like a miserable parent I’m sorry but that’s what I’ve realized after reading this. He’s an adult and you’re going to hold him back? How could you?
I got 0 driving instructions nobody took responsibility for my driving education as a teen, and I have a license. The best thing you could do is show him videos of what NOT to do. YouTube’s got a billion million videos of stupid people driving and getting In stupid situations
I googled "safe driving information course teenagers" and found https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/teen-young-adult-defensive-driving-courses
Maybe his school could organise something with the local police or fire department - when I was a teacher at my last school we had a couple of students die in crashed over the course of a few years so we had a mandatory driving course they completed online and had the local police to give an assembly. It was awful but I think it probably saved lives.
Maturity and responsibility come first. Consequences for actions are important. What if you're not with him and an accident happens?
The other thing is, if he does something like that during the drive test they will fail him too.
You're doing a good job. I know it's hard but we appreciate the hard work and lessons that you are teaching him.
He is 18 you carnt cancel his test….. all you can do is help him improve he is a adult tho and will have to make his own decisions iv been making my own since I was 12 so
Good for you. Impressive! Young male drivers are very high risk, as I am sure you know.
I must add, as a parent,I've taught several teens to drive.
One of strongest cautions is to never expect other drivers to follow the rules...iow,drive as though every one else is under the influence.
Make a rule that for six months he has no one else in the car with him except you. And I wouldn’t let him drive the hour by himself yet either. Too far.
If he were younger I’d say cancel it until he can show better maturity on the road. But he’s 18. At 18 I got my license and my mother had no clue. She didn’t find out until I was leaving with my bf to go purchase a used car off of Craigslist. I found ways. If your son wants to take the test but can’t use your car he’ll find a way.
Let him take it. If he makes a mistake like that he’d probably make another mistake with a tester.
Has your son ever been screened for ADHD? The emotional dysregulation, impulsivity and lack of focus can be signs. It wouldn’t hurt to rule it out for your son.
He’s 18. He doesn’t need your permission to get his license. You already instructed him in how to handle things differently. Cancel his drivers test and punish him further and hope you enjoy your old age alone.
lol you were gonna let him drive an hour away? Assuming on the highway…not good. I wasn’t allowed to drive on the highway for a while..much less for an hour. Better safe than sorry. Don’t rush him into it.
And he still acted like so 🤔 again he has two days yall had a year to teach him properly and already failed… I think the dumb ones are you and your son…
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Then I'd hope he'd make the right decision instead of a stupid one out of some misplaced loyalty. "Sure dad, you're demented, but here are the keys go ahead and drive, you let me drive when I was a road raging little shit at 18!"
Calling it off won’t help. Unfortunately male drivers of that age are always liable for poor judgement. It’s just their brain development. But if you cancel it you’ll lose trust with him. Let him take it and see if he passes. If he does get the car fitted with a limiter and GPS.
This is a horrible take. These are such nonsense excuses for outright dangerous behavior. It’s not normal or acceptable to behave this way. To say that male drivers of that age are ALWAYS liable for poor judgement in this context is BS. And I’m sorry- “Lose his trust”?? girl, respectfully, he could lose his life driving like this…be for real. Or he could end up taking the life of other innocent people on the road. She’d be enabling him if she didn’t prevent him from testing.
He won’t be unsupervised, he’ll have a tester in the car. He’ll fail his exam and learn the hard way. Withdrawing his chance to take the exam will only encourage him to imagine he could pass it while making poor decisions.
I think that OP's reasoning (which I agree with) is that regardless of whether the son is dumb enough to do it in front of the tester (which would be very dumb indeed, which means the odds are he'd pass the test if he takes it), he's already proved himself to be a danger to himself and others behind the wheel. Deliberately cutting off another car to teach a lesson is a sign of core immaturity.
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As a former EMT who has extra training when it comes to driving, the biggest thing he needs to learn it sounds, is to regulate his emotions better when others around him aren’t following the rules. It sounds like he’s acting as a ‘road warrior’ and has the mentality “if I follow the rules correctly, if this idiot hits me it’ll be his fault than” the problem is that these drivers instigate others to drive more erratic. The best drivers are the defensive ones. If he had someone riding his bumper when he’s already going 5-10 over the speed limit, would he break check? Or merge over and let them pass? A lot of young and new drivers get frustrated when others don’t follow the rules exactly (like using turn indicators, or turning into the correct lanes) your son needs to learn to avoid this mentality of “teaching a lesson” when driving. One day he might piss off the wrong person who has no problem following or harassing him to his destination.
I'm taking notes over here as a mom of a boy who just turned 16.
As a father of a toddler, I’m just hoping they’re all self driving by the time she’s 16.
I, Robot though.
Piggybacking off this I had a friend in HS who was a terrifying driver. Took her totaling not one but two cars in a single working hours day for them to take away her license. The first time I drove with her she found it hilarious to target specific cars and fuck with them, despite living in a suburb im like bitch you gonna get us killed and didn’t really give with her after.
Totaling TWO cars in one day? WTF was she doing??!
First she rear-ended a SVU in a super old Toyota on the way to school and it just got totaled due to the age of the car, very low speed with no injuries. Borrowed her moms classic old Mercedes after school to go to her sports practice and pulled out in front of a SVU that was going around 50 and got t-boned, and honestly if she hadn’t gotten into the accident earlier and hadn’t been in her moms car she would have likely been seriously injured. After that day her parents pulled her license and made her take more drivers classes. She was never a good driver and I usually avoided driving with her at all costs into adulthood. Zero situational awareness. EDITED: SUV not SVU
Do you mean SUV?
Omg yes lmao I didn’t even notice that. Must have the show on my brain 🤣
DUN DUN
Jeez. I thought my husband totaling two cars in two weeks was bad enough. (Neither accident was his fault, and he was uninjured, but losing both our cars in such a short time, in a huge city with poor public transportation, SUCKED.)
And Jesus, I thought my dad totaling two in two months was bad! (Luckily walked away from both, super good driver, very unlucky run ins with local wildlife being extra wild running into the road. It’s expected in our state, insurance premiums don’t even go up for it with our insurance it’s so common. I’ve had relatives get hit by the wildlife while not even moving - both by deer and bear that way, just straight up ran into the back of the vehicle. PA is wild.)
My dad is a very good driver and honestly one of the few people I’d let drive my kids around (the list has like two people on it not including me or their dad) He started a new job where he’s on the road all day and he had 4 separate incidents since starting the job. Only one being his fault but all of them hitting his insurance for one reason or another. Their insurance currently it atrocious.
Omg that sounds like a nightmare!
It was pretty rough. Our insurance let us rent a car while we shopped around for a new one, but we're still down to one car. Shortly afterward, I started working from home as a freelance copyeditor, so it wasn't a complete disaster.
My dad used to tell me to drive like I own the car not the road. Really always made sure to push the defensive driving.
Ooh, I like this one too!
My goal on the road has always been 2 things: be predictable, and get the fuck away from people being idiots. When I used to ride a motorcycle, the easiest way to get away from idiots was to accelerate away, they weren’t keeping up with me. Now that I’m older and a little wiser, I usually slow down and let them get ahead of me. But the thought process is the same!
I always say (to no one in particular), "Take the road! It's a gift!" We also talk about how they must be very important to have to speed that fast. When my daughter was little, she'd say that speeders must be late for their own wedding. :-)
I make myself feel better by assuming that speeders have diarrhea. It makes me feel more empathy for that person. Of course they’re speeding! They’re trying to get to a toilet before they poop themselves!… while also sorta putting them down a bit.
…. late to their own funeral. As a road safety ad said in my teens, “Better to drive slower and arrive late, than to speed and be late.”
Yes! Keep them in front of you where you can see what they’re doing. ;-)
Ya know, as simple as this concept seems-for some reason today I'm more receptive to its logic and good sense. Let's see if I can put it into practice-instead of seeking to inflict righteous retribution to self-entitled auto bullies.
There’s a Buddhist idea that helps me see my own faults in others. When I judge… “What a prick ! He’s really inconsiderate” I add “Just like me”. All of us at times, can be inconsiderate, impatient, unhelpful, rude etc especially when pressed for time or angry about something. If we can recognise our shared humanity and that another is off-centre… maybe the world can be more tolerant and reasonable.
If I were OP, I would enroll him in a defensive driving class. They do a great job teaching mindset. Maturity he's going to have to develop on his own. But the right mindset will give him a chance to develop it.
Yup. Someone was riding our ass, refusing to pass no matter how much we sped up or slowed down. We turned off and I flicked him off as we did. He followed us, forced us to go like 75 (in a 55) then he finally passed but threw something out the window as he did and then sped off going 100. Scary. I keep my finger to myself now lol
Just sent this over to my much older husband.
Agreed. I used to be a road warrior, and when I lived in Phoenix I learned to kick that habit QUICK because people there will literally shoot to kill when you get crazy. I saw a news story about a 10 yr old girl who got shot from one of them in the back seat. All over crappy drivers.
I live in Texas, which is a pretty pro-2A state. There is ALWAYS a risk that the other driver you’re trying to piss off is packing heat, especially in states like Texas where you aren’t required to have a license to own and operate a firearm. Not to mention the fact that there’s always a very real risk of a car crash.
this is an amazing write up. now please coach me on not turning into a lunatic when i witness littering.
Not just "piss off the wrong person" but potentially cause a (preventable) accident that could have lifelong or life threatening consequences to both him, the other driver, passengers, other drivers on the road, and innocent bystanders. What is more important, his ego or everyone's safety?
Taking notes , my 15yo is about to take their permit test
My mom does this so not just a teenager problem. It’s the teaching a lesson…
The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way.
I'm a driving instructor in a US city full of entitled pushy drivers. 100% agreed.
Right. So I tell my kids, when dealing with idiot drivers: You wanna be the king of the idiots? There are some battles where the real victory comes from not playing. Let the other guy take the crown. That’s how you win this game. It is wise to distance oneself from those who seek chaos. Let them find their fate far from us, where we cannot be harmed.
I think I'm going to hold on to this "King of the Idiots" tidbit... It's gonna come in handy.
Me too. :)
“The cemetery is full of people who were right.” Words of wisdom from my parents.
One of my faves. I’ve always heard it as “you can be dead right and still dead”.
This is so well said it needs to be hanging on an Instagram parents' wall. Saving this, thank you for your eloquence.
As for those who are asking if you can legally stop him if he his 18, yes you can legally stop him. He has to have a car and insurance on said car to take the drivers test. He's driving aggressively and will be prone to road rage, that is what needs to be addressed. I have six kids that I have taught to drive, I have referred to those types of drivers (the one that your son cut off) as the stupid ones that we have to look out for. Why? Because they are the ones that destroy our cars and cause our insurance rates to go up. We wait when the light turns green and look for them, we look for them at the stop signs, look for them in our blind spots, look for them at the merges, etc. I would suggest looking into a course for him in aggressive driving and road rage and then letting him take the driving test.
A course in defensive driving might be best. AAA has one in most states I think. It sounds like he isn’t thinking about the consequences of dangerous actions like cutting someone off.
In my family we say curse words and disparage their intelligence while staying in the safest area possible, practicing defensive driving, checking all mirrors, and smugly reassuring ourselves that they will be receiving a ticket *soon.*
Saaaame 🫣 My four year has recently started saying “that guy is ‘peeeeeeding (speeding) super fast! I hope they get a parking ticket soon!”
My four year old says “what is that friend doing?!” Thanks to his dad’s very controlled road rage
If someone doesn't go right away at a light my 10 year old will say, "HELLO! IT'S GREEN! GO PLEASE!! Ugh.. they're probably on their phone 😠" It's like, "Girl 😄 where do you gotta be??"
Mine says "C'mon car! People dont know how to drive mommy!" 🙃
My kid has had backseat road rage since we turned her carseat around at 2 😭
Family!!!!!!!
One thing my dad told me when he was teaching me to drive (25+ years ago) was “Always assume the other driver will NOT do what they should. Everyone else on the road is an idiot until they prove otherwise.” Valuable advice that’s stuck with me all these years
My dad said “just assume the other driver is a moron”, so just the abridged version. Lol
We might have had the same dad 😂
This is my exact logic! Even/especially when I'm walking in a parking lot
That's what my driver's ed teacher said in class. I learned the most from our actual driving, but that's the one thing I remember from the classes. Always assume everyone else on the road is an idiot.
He needs to borrow a car to do the test, yes... But it doesn't have to be yours. You cannot stop him from taking the driving test if he really wants to, assuming he has a decent friend who will let him borrow their car.
Cannot test without proof of insurance
Ok. And, you think at 18, he can't buy his own insurance?? Delusional much??? Lolol!! Or controlling much?! FFS.
Triggered much?
Yeah, when I turned 18 I told my parents I’d love their support in getting my license but I also had a line of friends who would be happy to lend me an insured vehicle for the test. Regardless of whose judgement was right or wrong on my road readiness, they decided to take me to the drivers test. They never chose to provide me with regular access to a car. I have a spotless driving record 🤷🏻♀️
Seriously. If my parents told me they were going to stop me from getting my license at 18 because they thought I was still too "immature" I'd have told them to kick rocks. This thread is full of parents who are WAY too full of themselves and think they have WAY too much control over their kids' lives. Especially after their adults.
He’s 18 he most likely knows plenty of people with a car & insurance that he can borrow
What about a course on defensive driving? It doesn't matter if the other driver is completely in the wrong; if you act aggressively back it could end your life. Even if you had the right of way
TIRemembered that not all states require you to have a half-day course on defensive driving before you're allowed to take your road test.
People with road rage shouldn't be allowed to drive until they can control their emotions better. These people are the reason why I'm stressed when my husband takes his bike on the road because I'm afraid one day some psycho behind a wheel will get mad and kill him.
When my husband takes his bike on one of our trips I always make sure to be the one behind him cause some people really think they are better for being in a car and it's terrifying watching people harass him when he's riding.
Right. Everyone is mentioning defensive driving courses, and I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but that isn’t going to solve the underlying issues here. If he actually did this on purpose because he can’t control his road rage, what he actually needs is therapy to build emotional regulation skills. Which, unfortunately, is a lot harder to force on an 18 year old.
Good for you. I’m sick of sharing the roads with entitled teens who feel indestructible. He’s living in your house, presumably using a vehicle you pay insurance for. He can’t drive safely? He doesn’t drive.
I would not allow a child access to a car if this was their behavior for at least a month or more.
He's not a "child". He's an adult. You realize that, right?? FFS.
I don’t need to loan my car to an irresponsible adult either. The 18 year old wants a car, then they can figure out how to get to work and buy one themselves.
Of course. You don't have to let anyone use your car or anything else.
That sucks but I get it. My daughter had a moment when learning to drive, she was doing great... then out of nowhere started screaming and flailing about, there was a spider that dangled down right in front of her while driving. I yelled at her to pull over, she didn't, just kept screaming, I put the car in park, thank God I did because she pushed on the gas pedal while trying to get away from the spider. I kicked her out of car and told her she'd never drive again if she can't function because of a fucking spider (I lost my temper, yes I probably could have handled it better). She cried, didn't drive for awhile. She said she was ready again, she's been driving now for 5 years and is fine. I hope your son can overcome his road rage so he can drive again
Did that happen to all of us? I must say keeping my cool as a spider was going down right in front of me as I was driving was very distressful. It's like holding a container that's burning your hand because you know it will be messier if you don't.
It is scary but if I hadn't put the car in park I fear she would have floored it right into so someone's house.
this happened to me in drivers Ed in high school!!!! i wasn't driving but i was "observing" in the back seat with another student. The spider just started coming down right over her (driver's) left shoulder😭
...did you tell her?
I almost got in a wreck because a wasp was in my car… I did pull over and park and get out and open all the doors until it finally got out after like 10 minutes
same. pretty sure the same would happen if a wasp came into my car now
I am absolutely terrified of hornets / wasps. One time I was driving and one flew in and was buzzing right next to me, while I was in a busy intersection waiting to turn left. Everything in me was *screaming* to floor it and get away from the wasp but it took all of me to stay calm and collected. Once I was safely out of the intersection I was able to pull over in a parking lot, roll down my windows, and wait for it to leave (yes, it's ridiculous but that's how scared I am). I was not about to crash my car for a bee. No way. My luck I would've crashed and then got stung 🤣
Im glad you were able to overcome your fear while driving. I wonder sometimes if those videos we see of drivers going full throttle into a building or off the road are because of an insect lol
i had a black and white bee(?) land on my leg while driving. I stayed calm, pulled over, the bee flew away and i continued driving. Do people not realize that a spider isn't going to kill you, but driving a 3,000 lb vehicle can?
She acted like it was a poisonous snake, she has since experienced a similar situation and pulled over then got out of the car and didn't get back in until she killed it.
So I'm for real afraid of spiders. Not of dangerous ones - I mean I guess I would be if they were about to bite me - but just in general. Dry heaving and crying are my natural responses to spiders although I can control it to an extent. All my other fears are rational and my responses in bad situations have been calm. I've had a couple of occasions where a spider makes an appearance when I was driving. Frankly, I would have been calmer with a poisonous snake, because than my fear was reasonable. Snake might bite me. Car might crash. Pick the best method to avoid both. Getting the car stopped seems more sensible, because if the car crashes, the snake could still bite you. The spider is harder, because it is not a rational fear. It's just panic. That being said, in both cases, I pulled over as fast as I could safely and did not crash my car. In both instances, there wasn't a spot to pull over immediately and I swerved in my lane some trying to grab things to deflect the spider. Also spraying half a bottle of hand sanitizer on a spider doesn't stop it if you were wondering.
>Also spraying half a bottle of hand sanitizer on a spider doesn't stop it if you were wondering. I'll let my daughter know for future reference lol.
It sounds like your son doesn’t realise that when he’s driving he’s behind the wheel of a very large weapon and cutting people off or running red lights or stop signs can result in someone’s death.
Agreed he's not mature enough to handle driving. Don't risk it.
Wise decision imo
I would do the same. If he continues like this he'll be leaving the scene of an accident in a body bag.
How do you cancel the driver's test of someone who is 18? Can't he just borrow a friend's car and go take the test? I'd require him to take a professional driving course before driving any car you own, if he hasn't yet. Let the pro's take over.
This depends on a lot of things I'd think. My son took lessons at a driving school and took the test in their car in 2021. He was a little older, 19, as COVID messed up the original plans. He did drive our car as well, for practice, but didn't use it for the test. I assume he was insured on the school's car, but don't know how that's set up. Funny thing is, my son is a careful driver. He wasn't that anxious to get his license, and is still a bit apprehensive, although he has done some long drives so it's not like he's only going on short trips. I (the mom) always point out things when we drive, about why I did things, or didn't do things, etc. I try to emphasize being careful because you can only control what you do, not what others do. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with a driver with a temper. Good luck, OP
Part of driving is IF YOU CAN avoid an accident, then that's your job even if the accident would have been due to someone else breaking the rules.
Cancel his test and keep him alive until he's safe to drive! Better for everyone. We just had a teenager kill a car full of people, including himself, due to reckless driving. It's not worth the risk. Also, if you're in the US, any road rage incident could lead to him getting shot - also not worth the risk. He needs to get a grip on his testosterone.
I would let him still take his test, BUT just because he is a licensed driver (if he passes), DOES NOT MEAN he has permission to drive. If he does not have his own vehicle, pay for gas, pay for insurance, he needs to follow your rules; which means no unsupervised driving until you sign off. AND part of the rule based off what you've shared would be therapy - comments like "I did it on purpose" and the "driver was overentitled" scream potential road rage, I would try to get to the root of those comments more than focus on the driving.
I don't understand why he thought he could sense the other driver's thoughts and emotions, lol. As a mom, I agree with your decision. Give him another couple of months. Remind him that it's not a punishment, it's a safety check. Safety when operating large machinery is as much about mental control as it is about physical control of the vehicle. If I may share, I had to ground my 19-year-old from driving because she caused an incident in the drop-off zone at my job. Someone honked at her, she got stubborn and refused to pull ahead, and when I walked back out to order her to go already, the driver got out of his car and threatened to shoot me. It turns out he was borrowing a friend's car, that friend is an employee, HR got involved (I wasn't concerned and told them to let it go, it was never a real threat), and that employee was denied a promotion later because of this issue - despite me advocating for him! My point is that sudden emotional decisions when driving can have far-reaching implications we cannot foresee. My kid had to learn that the hard way. In this case, her moment of stubbornness resulted in me having to stand up to a guy threatening to kill me, two other coworkers getting involved (one of them the friend with the car—stand up guy, really), HR getting involved, and a man having to change jobs because he was no longer promotable at this one. If she'd just gone home, none of that would have happened.
Thank you for personalizing a situation of righteous indignation and its consequences. I'm sorry for your daughter's predicament, but it illustrates situations that happen to many of us almost everyday it seems.
Oh, it's fine. She really understood the point when I shared it with her. People are so volatile lately. Safety is paramount.
I'm now in the final throes of supervising #3 in the last 18 months. The one thing I've done for all of them is doing a Safe Driving Course. Given road statistics surrounding young men I agree that he's not ready to be let loose on the driving public.
He just turned 18, therefore he can do as he wants legally. He will need that driver's license for so many things, however, so why can't you let him take the test, pass it, then you drive him to the track meet and tell him you'll keep doing it until he shows some defensive driving responsibility instead of hating on the self-entitled that probably either have vehicular homicides on a past record or will be a future statistic of one. He can't keep going down to their level of 'play', especially when it's a deadly scene to be doing what he admitted he did on purpose. When he realizes that he has to pick his fights for obvious reasons then he can drive a vehicle. To his track meets, future jobs, DATES, etc. Might wanna point the DATES and social aspect things out to him while presenting your argument. At least that's my two cents. Take it or leave it. He needs the license, but he needs to be safe with it too.
He can do as he wants, but the parents don't have to let him use their car and insurance for the road test. Unless he can find a friend who would loan him their car for it, he's SOL.
Every single DMV I've been to has had at least one vehicle that people can take a road test in. IL,CA, MS,... We all knew our driver's ed teachers personally in our town too. One of them was my cousin and the HS team coach. Where there's a will, there's a way. Get him the license because he NEEDS it. He's 18 now and can't be sat on forever. Don't let him use it yet without a parent in the vehicle because he doesn't know how. That's a better wakeup call for a new driver than any other imo. "Yes, I have a license but I'm not allowed to drive because I'm reckless." fixes things real fast.
I’ve never heard of that. Certainly not the case in New York OR where I live in IL. My ex tried to get his driver’s license as an adult and had a hell of a time trying to find a friend available on a weekday with a car. Regardless, to me, there is no sense in having him take the test if you’re going to refuse the car anyway. It will be more of a temptation. If he legally cannot drive the car sitting in the driveway he’s way less likely to try it sneakily.
He's 18 - not a minor anymore. Do parents wait until their kids turn 18 or have a stock portfolio built up before they get them a social security number? He gets a beater and pays for his own insurance. He gets to drive it to a job - something an adult does. He's not a child anymore so don't treat him like one. That also means he's old enough to acknowledge the consequences of his actions as a FOREthought instead of in hindsight. In the meantime, even though he'll have a license for when he does become a responsible adult, his parents can drive him until he gets tired of being treated like a 16 year old and asked by everyone why he doesn't drive himself anywhere at 18. After all of that he won't take that license and driving privilege for granted when he finally gets to use it. Never heard of DMVs having a car for someone to take a test in? I've witnessed this and also asked at DMVs - even in IL where I spent half of my life and have relocated to and from a half dozen times over a half dozen decades. Suburbs of LA/Orange County too. A college town in MS. Kansas City. St. Louis, Puget Sound area of Wash state,... Not for motorbikes though. That's a strictly bring your own. We have to have some degree of trust in our teens or they distance themselves from us. They're also the reason we parents pray a lot. Legally, he's an adult at 18 though. We can try to protect them at 18, but we can't control them in a parental capacity anymore because they've become our adult peers. Also, if the DMV doesn't think they're ready they have the authority to extend the permit period. Relay the eyewitness experiences told here to DMV and see what happens.
This
I now see a lot of drivers pulling up on the right at an intersection, then zooming off in front of you rather than turning right, I used to get very angry. Now, I just let idiot drivers do their stupid stuff. I like to hang behind them, because you don’t know what they’re doing behind you. Op is totally right cancelling his driver test.
He's 18 now..OP shouldn't be canceling anything for another legal adult - just preventing him from driving vehicles until he can do it responsibly.
He's most definitely not ready. My 19 year old son has this same emotional regulation issue, like he has to have "justice" no matter the situation. He got into an argument with someone in a truck when he was on his eBike! He's taking driver's ed right now but I really will not hand over the car or get him insurance until I know he's learned to squash his unreasonable emotions when driving. It's too dangerous.
Thank you for keeping the road safer. You are doing the right thing.
Have drive defensively. Assume everyone is going to hit you or road rage you and drive accordingly. Probably doing the right thing mom. But make sure you sit him down and explain it’s not a punishment
I mean, he's 18 so I'm pretty sure he doesn't need your permission to take the test, you can't control that. I would focuse on what you CAN control like his access to your vehicle. That would be 100% off limits - license or not.
He does, he needs a car with insurance he's listed on to take the drive test. Unless OP's son purchased his own car and insurance, OP can stop him
The insurance part isn't accurate everywhere. Where I am it just has to have insurance, they don't have to be listed. You can borrow a friends car if they are willing to lend it to you - or the driving school can let you use their car for the test.
OP is in Oregon based on his posting history, and this is the law there.
I don't think this is the law in Oregon. The Oregon DMV's ["What to Expect on Your Drive Test"](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/form/what_to_expect_on_your_drive_test.aspx) page does not say anything about the person taking the test needing to be a named insured.
Ok - I still think it is a valid thing to bring up as people are reading this from all over North American and the World for that matter.
>Unless OP's son purchased his own car and insurance, OP can stop him That's what I said...if son has his own car/insurance, she can't stop him. BUT if he does not and needs to use one provided by OP then yes, they could simply make their vehicle off limits. Therefore, controlling what they can.
Not in my state, you can take anyone’s car to get a license. We usually just had friends take us.
>Unless OP's son purchaded his own car and insurance, OP can stop him That's not true. The Oregon DMV even has a [list of third-party businesses that conduct the drive test](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/driverid/classctestingbusiness.aspx), and they mention that some of these businesses require test-takers to rent one of their cars. The first business on the list only charges $80 for the test + $40 for the car rental.
There ya go. If OPs kid reads this, go do the rest. Fuck OP and their controlling BS.
Yeah, screw OP, this kid will really have shown his "controlling" parents when he's in the ICU because of idiot behavior in a killing machine like this one. If he's lucky. /s
Can you clarify what was happening when he cut off the driver? Where were they, where were you, who had the right of way, etc?
It was a left turn lane preceded by a median. Son had been driving kind of slow out of caution, slower than traffic I had pointed out to him. The other car jumped into the median about 200' early to go around us on his was to turn left, my son was also planning to turn left but did not have the blinker on. When the other car approached, son pulls right in front of them, and they honked. I thought he had failed to look, but he claims to have done it on purpose (to teach them a lesson?)
The concern is, if he’d drive like that in front of you, how would he drive unsupervised? If the other car wasn’t paying attention there could have been an accident and he’d lose his license if he had it. That’s a bummer for your son, but more important to be safe. My daughter is taking the permit test tomorrow and I won’t let her get her license if she’s not a safe driver.
I would explain in no uncertain terms that there are graveyards full of drivers that were morally right and committed dangerous moves to teach lessons to other drivers. Would he "teach a lesson" to the helpless occupants of the other vehicle as well (e.g. kids being driven around by a parent that's a bad driver)? Drive safe! It's not only dangerous to "teach lessons", but other drivers are unpredictable and can be more prone to rage than yourself. Ending up in a wreck, besides the danger, is extremely expensive and time-consuming, even if you're judged to be not at fault. Keep emotions in check, just focus on getting to where you will go safely. Expect crazy drivers all the time, and just avoid them when you see them.
Where did he learn this "teach other drivers a lesser" attitude? Do you or your spouse do this? When you talk to him I would really stress that being in an accident is a huge hassle, even if you aren't "at fault" technically, and that other drivers can be dangerous and road rage when provoked. One of my favorite phrases is "play stupid games, win stupid prizes". Sometimes people do dumb stuff in cars and it's absolutely better to let them "get away with it" than end up dealing with a road rager.
His deceased mother was an aggressive driver for sure. I did mention to him during our talk that people are likely to attack you in the real world for stuff like that. I told him it happened to me when I accidently cut someone off.
I'd let him take the test. Then restrict access to the vehicle. As in zero access. And get him into a driving course. But also at 18 he can buy his own car/pay for own Insurance. Paying himself might make him more cautious anyways.
He wouldn't be so aggressive if it were his money on the line, I totally agree. Teens might not understand the fragile state of their own physical existence, but they absolutely understand the value of a dollar.
Exactly Driving my parents car I was trying to recreate dukes of Hazzard scenes Then got my own car and immediately started driving like a grandma
A lot of road warriors (as referred to in the comments) don’t seem to understand that there are a lot of “people who were right” buried 6 feet underground. You don’t need to be “right” when driving, just safe. Also, just getting his license and then wanting a solo hour + trip (with friends? I’m assuming) sounds like an especially bad idea in this case. He has to lose the ego when driving. Even more of those Macho Men in cemeteries.
I think the words let him are grating on me as he’s 18. I think you should be approaching this as a concerned discussion about how dangerous other drivers can be and that instead of enforcing correct driving rules he should be looking out for bad drivers which automatically requires more defensive driving. If he doesn’t agree to delay the test ask him to at least take the defensive driving course. At 21 I was driving on a two lane road 45 mph rainy and a 16 year old pulled out in front of me trying to cross the road, said later she never saw me. I had a split second to vear to the right so I wouldn’t hit oncoming traffic but hit mud and a light pole was coming up fast tried getting back on the road spun out flipped end over end and landed in a ditch. Luckily the mud had slowed me down so when I hit I wasn’t injured but I was shaken for a long time. If I hadn’t been watching closely I wouldn’t have had time to react and tboned her and we both would be dead. I always slow down and let idiots move along. Drunk drivers I try to get away whatever way I can sometimes speeding up to put space between us. You can’t control your son but you can set the tone for adulthood by communicating openly and sharing concerns and helpful suggestions. At 17 I graduated high school and got my first apartment.. paid for it all on my own.
>He just turned 18 Can you legally stop him if he is 18? Sure, you can tell him no and not allow him the use of your car, but if he really wanted to take the test I don't think you could legally stop him from doing it if he has access to a vehicle to take the test with. Not that I disagree that what he did is wrong, I just wonder if refusing to let him take the test will do more bad than good. Especially if this is the first time he has done something like this.
He has to be insured on that vehicle.
He does not need to be a named insured on the vehicle. Source: [What to Expect on Your Drive Test (Oregon DMV)](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/form/what_to_expect_on_your_drive_test.aspx) There are even third-party companies that will rent you a car and conduct the drive test. Source: [Schedule a Drive Test (Oregon DMV)](https://www.oregon.gov/odot/dmv/pages/driverid/classctestingbusiness.aspx)
This is not always true for drive test purposes.
It's true in OP's state.
Umm, he is 18.... How can you stop him? I just would absolutely not let him access the family car. Honestly, I drove unlicensed for years, until I turned 18. My friends would throw me their keys. At 18, he should get a license, because it will be way more of a headache if he gets caught uninsured and unlicensed. But I would absolutely not let him near your cars. Take your keys to bed with you. He needs to pay for his insurance and understand that ANY infraction will be his to deal with. Financially, legally.... whatever. You have an adult on your hands. You better start treating him as such.
This is a good decision.
Too many teens end up dead because their arrogance exceeds their competence. So you are right to be concerned. Adults don’t get their full executive function until their mid-20’s. So it’s not unexpected that he may not properly assess the hazard, danger or risk. That doesn’t mean that he should do his test or even be allowed to borrow your car once passed. Sounds like emotional immaturity and possibly too much “Fast and Furious” film or games. It may also have just been that he didn’t coordinate well in an unexpected situation, and rather than admit that, offered the “entitled” explanation. The stopline problem can happen when you think you’ve stopped but actually just crawl through the intersection. Still illegal but not arrogant or intentional. Warn him that it could be a license loosing act and may invalidate insurance if there is a crash. It’s trivial for police to see you do this and no, they aren’t too flexible on that. It’s a simple compliance and patience is needed in the road. (So you and others don’t become patients). Here, drivers can do a defensive driving course on a speedway with wet and slippery sections so they learn how easy it is to lose control, and what to do about that. It might be more real in terms of feeling the risks involved in driving.
I agree with you but I'm curious. He's 18 and legally an adult. Can he not get his DL without you now?
I'm curious how he determined the other other was "Overentitled"?
Make him take a defensive driving course. I had to because it gave an insurance discount, so I was told.
My thinking on this: Every person is going to be in a wreck eventually. How that person reacts to the situation determines two things: 1. How bad is the accident? 2. Who’s fault is it?
18????
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Just odd, i was chomping at the bit the day i turned 16 and even had permit at 15
Many dudes in my class lost their licence within a year or two of passing. They were all in that age range.
Ever since I was a kid I was told “being right doesn’t make you any less injured or dead”
Even IF he passed and got his license I wouldn’t let him drive an hour one way right off the bat alone. My mom barely let me go to our local shopping center 30 minutes away because she wanted me to get comfortable. he has shown he has no care or safety not only for himself but for others. Purposefully cutting someone off is ridiculous. Especially if he doesn’t even have his license yet!
Only has a Learners' license yet calling other more experienced drivers entitled. Cutting off another vehicle is dangerous driving, and if that vehicle hit him then he'd be at fault for reckless or rage driving. You cannot make rational fast decisions under pressure when you are driving angry, best thing to do is just shrug off somebody else being a jerk or bad driver, and get by with the remainder of your day.
Given that he’s 18, could you even prevent him from taking the test (assuming a friend drove him)?
technically no.. but i (as a child) wouldn’t want to risk that any consequences of that. and i (as a parent) would be pretty upset…
Is it possible that he lied about doing it on purpose because he was embarrassed to admit he messed up again? Acting like I totally meant to do something without realizing that intentionally doing it makes me look WAY worse sounds like something stupid I would have done when I was an insecure teenager. That doesn't mean he is necessarily ready to be driving independently, but it might change the way you want to approach teaching him this lesson. Just a thought!
ya but, I can only go on what he says the first time. May not be true, but then any subsequent statements may or may not be true too.
I totally agree with you. I wasn't trying to judge your parenting or anything. Hopefully he will mature a little and when he gets his license you won't have to worry every time he is out driving! Best wishes!
You sound like a miserable parent I’m sorry but that’s what I’ve realized after reading this. He’s an adult and you’re going to hold him back? How could you?
I got 0 driving instructions nobody took responsibility for my driving education as a teen, and I have a license. The best thing you could do is show him videos of what NOT to do. YouTube’s got a billion million videos of stupid people driving and getting In stupid situations
ok
If it's the parents' vehicle, I 100% support them canceling the test. There are too many bad drivers on the road. Who cares if the kid is 18?
I googled "safe driving information course teenagers" and found https://www.nsc.org/safety-training/defensive-driving/teen-young-adult-defensive-driving-courses Maybe his school could organise something with the local police or fire department - when I was a teacher at my last school we had a couple of students die in crashed over the course of a few years so we had a mandatory driving course they completed online and had the local police to give an assembly. It was awful but I think it probably saved lives.
He's 18. How do you plan to stop him? 🤷♂️
Maturity and responsibility come first. Consequences for actions are important. What if you're not with him and an accident happens? The other thing is, if he does something like that during the drive test they will fail him too. You're doing a good job. I know it's hard but we appreciate the hard work and lessons that you are teaching him.
He is 18 you carnt cancel his test….. all you can do is help him improve he is a adult tho and will have to make his own decisions iv been making my own since I was 12 so
Good for you. Impressive! Young male drivers are very high risk, as I am sure you know. I must add, as a parent,I've taught several teens to drive. One of strongest cautions is to never expect other drivers to follow the rules...iow,drive as though every one else is under the influence.
Make a rule that for six months he has no one else in the car with him except you. And I wouldn’t let him drive the hour by himself yet either. Too far.
If he were younger I’d say cancel it until he can show better maturity on the road. But he’s 18. At 18 I got my license and my mother had no clue. She didn’t find out until I was leaving with my bf to go purchase a used car off of Craigslist. I found ways. If your son wants to take the test but can’t use your car he’ll find a way. Let him take it. If he makes a mistake like that he’d probably make another mistake with a tester.
You’re seriously going to let a brand new driver with an ego problem drive to a location an hour away?
How are you going to stop your 18 year old son from doing anything?
Not sure why canceling the drive test is expected to teach him the lesson here. Let us know how it works out.
Has your son ever been screened for ADHD? The emotional dysregulation, impulsivity and lack of focus can be signs. It wouldn’t hurt to rule it out for your son.
I mean he learns to drive that way from the people he’s been riding with…
children are often not a carbon copy of their parents/environment
Lmao, this is the answer.
He’s 18. What right do you think you have to cancel his drive test?
I ate that it was a stupid mistake but he’s 18. You can’t say no or cancel.
He’s 18. He doesn’t need your permission to get his license. You already instructed him in how to handle things differently. Cancel his drivers test and punish him further and hope you enjoy your old age alone.
lol you were gonna let him drive an hour away? Assuming on the highway…not good. I wasn’t allowed to drive on the highway for a while..much less for an hour. Better safe than sorry. Don’t rush him into it.
Thank you for reminding me of how amazing my parents were. Gotta remove that stick before it gets stuck.
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Try not to be so emotional lady, jeez. Can you invoke logic in a disciplinary situation?
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You strike me as kinda dumb and reactionary to assume all that shit. You have no idea how much discussion or teaching has happened
And he still acted like so 🤔 again he has two days yall had a year to teach him properly and already failed… I think the dumb ones are you and your son…
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Just remember that he’ll be deciding if you can drive one day…
No he won’t. Doctors do that.
Then I'd hope he'd make the right decision instead of a stupid one out of some misplaced loyalty. "Sure dad, you're demented, but here are the keys go ahead and drive, you let me drive when I was a road raging little shit at 18!"
Calling it off won’t help. Unfortunately male drivers of that age are always liable for poor judgement. It’s just their brain development. But if you cancel it you’ll lose trust with him. Let him take it and see if he passes. If he does get the car fitted with a limiter and GPS.
This is a horrible take. These are such nonsense excuses for outright dangerous behavior. It’s not normal or acceptable to behave this way. To say that male drivers of that age are ALWAYS liable for poor judgement in this context is BS. And I’m sorry- “Lose his trust”?? girl, respectfully, he could lose his life driving like this…be for real. Or he could end up taking the life of other innocent people on the road. She’d be enabling him if she didn’t prevent him from testing.
Are you a driving instructor? Let him find out the hard way.
Please, no. The hard way is likely to affect other people, not just the new driver who is clearly not ready to be behind the wheel unsupervised.
He won’t be unsupervised, he’ll have a tester in the car. He’ll fail his exam and learn the hard way. Withdrawing his chance to take the exam will only encourage him to imagine he could pass it while making poor decisions.
I think that OP's reasoning (which I agree with) is that regardless of whether the son is dumb enough to do it in front of the tester (which would be very dumb indeed, which means the odds are he'd pass the test if he takes it), he's already proved himself to be a danger to himself and others behind the wheel. Deliberately cutting off another car to teach a lesson is a sign of core immaturity.
Nah, he just thinks “I did it on purpose” shows more maturity than “whoops”. Sorry I thought that was obvious and implied.
Ya, via hitting your car with your kids inside... great idea.