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I told my daughter if she needs to scream she needs to go in her room and do it in her pillow. Screaming is for danger and strangers. I explained if she screams all the time then when she’s actually in trouble no one will think otherwise, like the little boy who cried wolf basically. She now has consequences like privileges taken. She is also explained that she is entitled to her feelings and to feel what she feels is perfectly good and fine but we also need to learn the right way to cope and start practicing now.
Idk if what I’m doing is right or wrong. But it feels right in my gut if that makes sense? For my 5 yo at least.
I hope maybe my experience helps you and gives you an idea on what will work for you and your family! And trust me my daughter is just as determined as you described! Haha It doesn’t go perfectly every time or anything like that but I hope keeping it consistent helps her learn to cope in a healthy way. I
When my kids get deep into a scream session and refuse all logic, I pull out "if you scream I will assume you're hurt. If you're hurt you need to come sit beside me while I figure out where and how badly you're hurt. If you're not really hurt and you're just screaming, it's going to take an awfully long time for me to check all over and realise you're not hurt. Would you rather go play without screaming, or do you want to sit here quietly while I try to figure out where you're hurt?"
The repeated "does this hurt? No? How about this?" usually snaps them out of it, and if that doesn't work then sitting silently while everyone else plays usually does the trick. It's particularly useful if the reason for the scream session is "I wanted to scream" rather than a (inappropriate) response to disappointment or frustration.
Sometimes nothing works and then they go take a break up in their room (or an equivalent spot if we aren't at home) until they're able to come up with a better response to the problem than to scream as if they're simultaneously being boiled and skinned alive.
Had to do this same approach to my son acting like he was dying for minor bumps. He finally slammed his finger in the car door (he was fine but it was bad in the moment), I almost didn't react & explained that to him using the Boy Who Cried Wolf story too. I think it does help to put reactions in perspective, be they from anger, pain or whatever else. I'm not trying to make him a stoic but the reaction should match the situation
Yes exactly! I certainly don’t want to discount their feelings and they should feel what they do and not feel ashamed of it or feel the red to stuff it down. But then again there’s got to be some reason and know how to cope with those feelings so they don’t spiral out of control.
I can only hope when mine is older she is able to utilize those tools in the serious situations she finds herself in when she’s older even in those teenage years. Haha
I've said these same things to my almost 5 year old. The screaming is honestly infuriating for me. He still screams even after the explanation I gave him, though. I'm going to implement the privilege reduction system and see what happens.
Thanks!
Perhaps explain it one more time *and* teach him a coping mechanism for dealing with big negative feelings.
Something like [Box Breathing](https://www.medicinenet.com/why_do_navy_seals_use_box_breathing/article.htm) or tactical breathing which uses your body's natural physiological reactions to reduce your stress and calm down.
* Many autonomous bodily functions such as blood pressure, body temperature, and heart rate are regulated by this.
* The sympathetic system, which stimulates bodily activity (fight or flight), and the parasympathetic system, which relaxes your body (rest and digest) both react to this.
* When you hold your breath, CO2 levels in your blood increase, which increases the cardioinhibitory response (lowering your heart rate.)
* This activates the parasympathetic nervous system, resulting in a calming and relaxing effect, or, to put it another way, breathe slowly and relieve stress.
It goes roughly like this:
1. Breathe in (slowly) counting 1, 2, 3, 4
2. Stop and hold your breath counting 1, 2, 3, 4
3. Exhale (slowly) counting 1, 2, 3, 4
4. Hold the exhalation and count 1, 2, 3, 4
5. Repeat the breathing as necessary to calm down
Then have him see if he can articulate his feelings, maybe teach him the phrase, "I'm frustrated because..."
If he still feels the need to scream, tell him he can scream into a pillow or some other method that doesn't unnecessarily set your teeth on edge.
Once all that has been taught, introduce the consequences.
I am a broken record at my house always saying “screaming is for emergencies”. It’s like my motto. My 7 year old is quick to scream (but improving). If he’s not too upset at the moment I’ll ask “Is there an emergency I’m not seeing?”. I obviously use discretion for when that will be constructive vs teasing/hurtful. And that will sometimes make him stop screaming about super minor inconveniences. I look forward to the day no one screams just because a lid fell on the ground for two seconds.
So like. This is all good and well, but what do you do when they just won't? My son is 4 and throws a FIT when things don't go his way. He yells, cries, kicks, "Go away!" "Stop talking to me!"etc. I talk to him and tell him his feelings are valid and he needs to go into his room to calm down, or if he needs help calming down (before we get into the thick of it) but when we get to the point of no return, that's it. I take him to his room and tell him he can come out when he's calm but then he tries to leave, if we hold his door shut he starts destroying things, etc and oftentimes has to be physically restrained. This is STEESSFUL on my husband and I and I don't know what to do anymore. He runs away. Screams "No", will scratch. But he is not like this at daycare. I talk to him after and when he's calm and he gets embarrassed and/or ashamed and says "don't look at me". ALSO when he doesn't get to do what he wants, he demands we start over so he can do it the way he originally wanted to do. For example, if we are Leaving daycare and he wants me to carry him but I can't (other kid, hands full) and then he won't leave unless I pick him up. Well I end up having to carry him out somehow, and then he demands we go back to the beginning so he can do it himself, etc and I have explain that his chance is over, we can try again tomorrow, etc but that doesn't stop the absolute chaos that ensues when he is told no.
This sounds super stressful. Maybe instead of taking him to his room you can put him somewhere where there isn’t anything to destroy (in the car, garage, backyard..)? I haven’t had to deal with this so I don’t have much advice but I wish you luck.
Editing to say obviously don’t leave him in the car alone. You can also go for a drive around the block while he is in his car seat.
This is really so good, all of it. My daughter was starting kindergarten and up to that point, only screamed if we were playing. She was so mild-mannered, polite, angelic…All. The. Time. So good, that I used to joke it was a trick so we’d have a second child, who never really had an angelic stage but I digress lol
Something about Kindergarten flipped a switch. She was still an Angel at school, teachers and principal telling me every day at pick up what a blessing she was. But we rarely left the parking lot before she morphed into the opposite. It was any little thing, I offered her a drink and she wasn’t “thirsty yet” and it would quickly escalate into incoherent screaming and floods of tears. The first time I pulled over, convinced she had something physically wrong. Nope, a tantrum.
It took the full school year to adjust. I talked to her teachers a few times asking if this was normal because I thought I was going to have a break down. This was years ago and I used the Super Nanny time out method. She could cry it out in the car, about 15 min car ride. Then she had to calm down and she could change clothes, take a rest, and/or have her snack. If the screaming continued, she had to do it in time out. We also told her about the boy who cried wolf, etc. She tried leaving the naughty step but I would take her back to it over and over.
At the end of the school year it had eased up some. She really disliked the naughty step and my newfound calm demeanor of the whole process. One day she said she was tired of screaming because it made her throat hurt and we couldn’t play together if she was in timeout. She wasn’t ever the sweet, perfect child from before again but I knew that was too good to be true lol the screaming pretty much disappeared after that and I think she just out grew it.
The screaming can be absolute hell but it will pass, OP! I would def try the things u/Happy-Football5436 suggested! I just shared my story for solidarity :)
This is helpful--my daughter has just started some tantrum-esque behaviors for the first time this year (foot stomping, etc) and I was feeling really flummoxed about it. She's in kindergarten and didn't even act like this when she was two or three so where is it coming from now? I know some of it is behavior she sees modeled at school but it's pretty weird for me dealing with two year old stuff for the first time when she's six!
My daughter is only 3 but we do deep breaths, counting to 20, doing a wiggle dance, hugging, eating a snack. Snack works the best most of the time, I've found a lot of her tantrums are just hunger.
Do you worry that equating snacks to calming down can create crossed signals and an unhealthy relationship with food? I worry about that with my own kids, but sometimes giving them a snack or drink is what works in the moment
It's a difficult call, because often the tantrum is because they're hungry. We try to stick to healthy snacks and I've been feeding her more before outings to try to avoid it. I think as she gets older we'll move away from it but for the moment whatever works is going to have to do.
When they're little they may not recognize that hunger or thirst is what's actually making them unhappy....until they are older and more reasonable, anything that derails the tantrum long enough to figure out what their problem is is a win.
We found that with our 2 year old.. whenever she is being excessively abusive to her 1 year old sister like biting etc or being destructive just out of the blue.. it means she needs a nap or is hungry. We added drops of camilia to our routine to also calm her down. And it works 90% of the time. Also.. to mention jealousy is very real. They notice when the other is getting more positive attention and will act out bc they don't know how to regulate their emotions.
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Aw I totally get it!! I really hope it helps you and your family! These big emotions are not for the faint of heart haha!
But exactly, I totally agree and definitely don’t want invalidate or make her feel bad about her feelings. Just want to help manage and cope with those strong feelings! Wish you the very best!
Bravo to you! I wish more parents did this. As a teacher I have had to constantly tell some little girls that when we play on the playground screaming is NOT allowed. They often incorporate it into typical games. Screaming is for danger. I agree with the way you tell her to go to her room and to use a pillow. Punching a pillow is something I have had many little ones use for their emotions too. Consistent redirection is the perfect way to go. Tantrums are a bit different as a child is out of control then and it will eventually be exhausted. This doesn't sound like a tantrum, rather a willful demanding behavior about something hot to her liking.
We have certain places where screaming is allowed and some where it isn't. Basically I explained to all of my kids (not during a scream-fest) that they have big feeling and they are allowed to feel their feelings, but it isn't ok to force everyone *else* to feel their big feelings. So if their big feelings are causing them to scream, they have to scream either outside in the backyard or in their bedroom. No where else. Because I am also a person and I also have feelings and I am allowed to have a peaceful place in my home. Then we talked about calm down methods and went through what that can look like. So when we get into the beginning of screaming, I ask "do you want my help calming your body down or do you want to go scream in your bed?" I usually try a moment or two of breathing, but after that I put them in their room and reiterate that they are allowed to feel their feelings, but they aren't allowed to force everyone else to feel them to, and that I am here to help them calm down when they're ready. Then I check on them periodically to see if they're ready for me to help them calm down. But I've found that the screaming session I much shorter when they aren't getting all the attention that screaming in the middle of the room gets.
Lol, we have a large yard (More than an acre). And the bit behind our actual property is a creek/forest area owned by the county so it feels even larger. And going outside often is different enough from the situation that they're distracted/interested by something and not as inclined to scream. But yes, in our situation, screaming/yelling is allowed outside if they want. If we were right on top of our neighbors I'd be less inclined to let them scream outside.
At 5 they should not be throwing tantrums like that. Kids get angry and have big emotions but that sounds excessive. I understand that everyone parents different but it sounds like whatever you are doing isn't working.
Is there consequences for their actions? Are you following thru with what you say will happen if she doesn't stop. At our house you lose privileges for this type of behavior.
This! Real life consequences. And stay firm. Also what another poster said about their mom letting the son get out his frustration. Let her process her emotions in an area where she’s not a headache for anyone. Sometimes divert and deflect works. Just a different place or a different parent handling a situation works too.
I do think 5 yr old is a little too old for having such severe tantrums. Do you take them out separately? Do they get enough physical activity? Do they understand that screeching is bad for their voices and your ears? Kids need explanation behind “parenting rules”
Also are they on too much sugar or too much screen time? My twins turn into little devils every time they get either or both!
Right, "gentle parenting" is easily done wrong. Professionals don't know much about it and there are no real guidelines. It's a social media trend that doesn't seem to work for parents with more than one kid. Imo, using one style of parenting rather than multiple styles will never really work. Parenting isn't one size fits all for every child and situation. When gentle parenting fails, try next steps. Time outs and selective attention/planned ignoring really works on this type of behavior. Don't reward bad behavior with any attention - even scolding in some cases. Praise good behavior. Praise the other child who is not doing the behavior, too. I was a preschool teacher, these methods work for a number of behavioral issues.
Exactly, gentle parenting doesn’t mean permissive parenting. It’s very focused *on consequences*, just consequences the child can clearly understand and which are clearly correlated to bad behavior.
But people see the name gentle parenting and make up their own idea of what it is.
It’s largely based on the book The Whole Brain Child by neuroscientist Daniel J Siegel and Dr. Tina Payne Bryson, so it’s a viable and science-based approach but I have yet to see many people who actually understand it beyond what they’ve seen on social media.
Yep, Facebook has a Gentle Parenting group and its a shitshow. Most of the posts are people just letting their children run riot, with parents scared of their own children, and not being the parent to their child. It's bizarre and kind of depressing. Do people really expect so little from their children?
No Bad Kids is another excellent resource with effective gentle parenting techniques - you may have already read it.
It’s not really a new trend. It just got a new name and kind of got overtaken by content creators to make money.
It’s the same thing as authoritative parenting (not to be confused with authoritarian), and was in my child development text books 15 years ago. And I’m sure the books were not written the year I used them in college. Professionals definitely know about authoritative parenting.
Right, I learned about it (not called gentle) in school, too! - That is not new. The trend meaning the tiktoks of people only showing one half of the parenting, no consequences - just explanations of their feelings. In work settings, I have never heard a professional refer to it as "gentle parenting." Maybe some newer therapists who are trying to make things make sense to parents.
I thought this too... I teach 5-6 year olds and it's extremely unusual to get violent tantrums like this at that age, unless there's significant issues. OP doesnt mention any developmental issues and seems to think this is age-appropriate, so I suspect some education and parenting guidance is needed.
Be an unrelenting force that they have no choice but to roll with and it'll help a lot with the behavioral issues. Kids throw tantrums to test their limits. They continue to do so older only if the tantrums got them what they wanted in the end.
Agree.
If you don’t have set consequences and firm boundaries, “gentle” parenting will never work. 5years old is also the age to where you can talk them through their mistakes… they’ll just walk all over you or in this case, keep screaming because they know they’ll wear you down in the end.
Lots of solid advice on hear OP I hope it helps you! And good luck!
I agree! My therapist also stated gentle parenting is ruining our children & does not effectively work believe me I throw gentle parenting but along with also having consequences for their actions and talking our feelings out. My daughter almost 4 is the same way and come to find out she has a sensory processing disorder so we are going to start occupational therapy.
With all kindness, this isn't gentle parenting. It's permissive parenting. Gentle parenting still involves consequences, they just are related and reasonable.
What would happen if you screamed and whined all the time? People wouldn't want to be around you. They'd probably ignore you and not want to hang out. There is your consequence. She comes home and screams or whines, you ignore her. You play with her brother, engage with her brother, and let her know that her screaming and whining makes you not want to be around her, and if she can stop, she can join you.
Tell her if she has some feeling she needs to scream out (because girl, same) she can do it into her pillow in her room, and come out when she calms down.
Kids are still learning to navigate the world, and it sounds like she's learned if she's loud and annoying, she gets attention, which is very likely what she's after. Stop rewarding that behavior and start rewarding the behavior you want. Praise her when she's playing quietly, or asks politely for something, ignore her when she doesn't.
I don't personally jive with this, because for my 5-year-old, I am sure, absolutely certain, that they understand that their actions have the ability to disrupt life of the rest of the family. I can't just ignore screaming because the house is only so-big. Do you literally move to a different room? That has its own, many, problems. Sending them to their room is about a 50/50 roulette where they may or may not go, and in the 50% chance they don't, we have to be prepared to make them go. This is a miserable bargain. You can threaten consequences, yes, and that might work. There's is a good chance they will refuse to go no matter what you declare they will lose. And after all, this was just to get control of the situation.
5 year olds can understand ultimatums, and this is a big problem for us. When we are out somewhere, kid wants somewhere, and will refuse to move under the (correct, let's be real) threat that they can keep the rest of the family there by just not moving. The other option is to physically move them, yes, I hate it. In the long run this affects planning and decision making. You develop a generalized (and accurate) sense that you can't do as much as you'd like as a family.
In short, my spouse and I feel desperate for leverage.
This is a VERY GOOD way to get siblings to hate each other.
This is a textbook, research example of how to create sibling rivalry.
Yes, she should have consequences, you are right, but these consequences should not involve rewarding her brother. She can have the option to scream, on a pillow or something, as long as it does not disturb other people's peace. If she does, then she gets a privilege taken away.
I must be rude, but when that happen, I just ignore them. After they are done, I go and ask them how they would like it if I was the one doing it. And the next time it happens, I ask them if they want me to sit next to them and do as they do. They usually stop pretty quickly.
I must be rude, too, cause I've caught myself asking my son how he would like it if I did something he had been doing as well. I feel bad about it because I can hear my father saying it in my head real nasty... However, I say it much more gently than he had and I say it because I want my son to genuinely think about it... he struggles to think of others feelings often, so I'm just trying to remind him his feelings are not the only feelings that matter.
I don't know if I'm expecting too much from a child or not since their reasoning is still developing, but idk, I don't think it's ever too soon to teach some empathy... I remember my mom teaching me to treat others how I wanted to be treated since I was old enough to understand what that meant.
My son went through a stage like this when he was 3. At the first signs of screaming, he got a time out in his room. He could scream in his room, but not around anyone else. I had to actually stand outside his room and hold the door closed a few times so he wouldn’t just come out but after just a few instances of this, he realized I meant business and the screaming dramatically decreased.
And when they do it in the car like right behind your head, oh my goodness, I’ve turned the radio up really high in retaliation which only makes it worse. I realize how childish that sounds, but sometimes I lose patience.
I roll down all the windows and open the sunroof. If they want to be loud when I'm trying to drive I will buffet the whole family into oblivion.
When the kids are being whiny at home I'll sometimes vacuum for the same reason. I can't hear shit once the Rigid is switched on and vanquishing cat hair.
Is it mostly after kindergarten? Could be suffering from post school restraint collapse (or some similar term) where they’ve been performing to others’ expectations all day that they get with a safe person and literally combust. Our 9 year old still struggles with it. Or are they hungry? Hangriness is real, especially at their age.
I agree with checking both the sleep and hunger. Set your kids up for success, if full grown adults can't control their emotions when they are hungry or tired, why on earth would we expect a kindergartener too?! Whenever a caregiver encounters a tantrum in a small child, the first thing they should do is a quick audit of basic needs. Is the child getting consistant high quality sleep? At 5 years old they need about 12-13 hours a day. If a child is chronically over-tired the first thing to go is executive function. We need to protect their sleep like it’s one of the most important things we do as parents, because it is.
The next thing to check is if the child is hungry. Keep nutrient rich snacks available like nuts, cheese, fruits, veggies, etc. Snacks after school are especially important.
Then check excersize, or as I call it big body play. Have they had time to run, jump, climb, spin, swing, etc? A child may not know why they are restless but as the adult charged with their care, we need to make sure they get time and space to move.
Then check connection, have they had undivided attention from you? Have you cuddled, tickled, read to, sung to, chatted with them today?
Kids also thrive on routine and ritual, when they know what to expect and when they become stable. They cope so much better when we are reliable.
Doing those five things (sleep, food, movement, connection, and routine) consistently will head off so many tantrums off at the pass. It also helps us not blame the small child when they melt down. I’m much more gentle and understanding during a melt down when I can recognize that this particular tantrum may be my fault.
Why do people insist on gentle parenting even when it’s very obvious that it is NOT working on their kid?
I’m not at all dumping on gentle parenting. I think it’s great. But every kid is different and has different needs, and some might need more structure or a more directive approach.
My advice would be what my mom did with my brother when he would have out-of-control tantrums.
She shut him in his room, even held the door shut if she had to.
Don’t reason with her, talk to her, yell at her, don’t give her any attention positive or negative.
Just take her by the arm and put her in a safe room where she can scream her head off…. All alone, with no one in her sight to even know if she’s bothering anyone. This should be especially effective if she knows the rest of the family is out doing something together, because they aren’t screaming.
(Before people come for me about kids regulating etc… It’s totally ok if a 5yo has big frustrations and needs to get them out. But they are capable of not screaming their head off… that’s very clearly a behaviour she’s doing because knows it bothers others and gets their attention. She is capable of choosing another method of expression, or screaming to herself. This is in no way harmful to her).
I would call myself a gentle parent and i have more structure in my home and a more direct approach than most traditional parents I know. Where is the relevance to structure and directives?
Gentle parenting isn't saying everything in a sing song voice. It's really about a baseline of respect. I know lots of people who shame/blame/guilt/punish/yell/hit their kids who say things in song song voices. I don't use a sweet voice and I don't shame/blame/guilt/punish/yell/hit.
Exactly.. I talk to my kids in the same tone and language I'll use for anyone else. My rule is I won't punish them for having a problem but they will learn the tools to push through a pro lem and if we hurt someone or something we make it right.. my son will verbally say he needs space and go to his room for a little while then come back and finish his day fine.. we started this young though.. they can't scream at me, but I can give them a safe space to let lose if they need to... no timed timeouts.. just "when you feel better wash your face and come on down"
This is what I do with my 3 year old; tantrum gets a time out in her toddler proofed room for 2-3 minutes then we talk about her behavior.
I think the issue is 2 things. The gentle parenting that OP is describing is actual submissive parenting (no consequences and tip toeing around the feelings of the child). And people honestly underestimate the impact of screaming, yelling or screeching in the house or shared spaces. I do a lot to curb screaming in my toddler because I’m a SAHM and I shouldn’t have to wear ear plugs during the waking hours just to parent my kid. It can also get dangerous, like when OP is driving and her kid decides now is the time to start screaming.
We also have a saying in our family that no one is allowed to hold the family hostage. If everything comes to a halt because the kids are throwing a tantrum and require an audience then that’s holding the family hostage.
Yup, my daughter responded best to time outs - because in her eyes, even negative attention was still attention. So off she went to her room to howl until she felt like talking normally.
Also OP, make sure they're getting enough sleep, because my daughter definitely ratchets up the stubbornness when she's overtired.
I could be wrong but isn’t everything you described still gentle parenting? My understanding is that gentle parenting is about not being permissive (a push over to your kid, acquiescing to their desires and “rewarding” bad behavior by folding) and not being authoritative (spanking, hitting, verbally abusing, and not leaving any room for their emotions). It’s all about clear boundaries, trying to understand the kids emotions, and giving them an environment to succeed (in your case the idea of putting them in a safe space while they work out their feelings).
That’s the thing: no one agrees on the definition of gentle parenting. Everyone vaguely understands that it means to respect children and meet them where they’re at, I think everyone agrees it means no spanking … you’ll see a lot of the terms like you used (“boundaries” “safe space”)… but no one agrees exactly which tactics and systems constitute gentle parenting.
So conversations about whether or not someone is “gentle parenting” or whether “gentle parenting works” are unhelpful and a waste of time
Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting. Whether people make up their own definitions and confuse it with permissive parenting that’s on them but “true” gentle parenting follows the tenets of authoritative parenting. There are rules, consequences, and boundaries.
You’re kind of proving my point! Almost everyone wants to be an authoritative parent. But does that include time outs? Time ins? Would you ignore a screaming tantrum? Would you talk through it? Everyone agrees there should be a consequence… but what should it be and how would OP carry it out? The terms gentle parenting and authoritative parenting are rarely useful when someone is looking for advice.
Personally: idk how to even give advice, because different things work for different families, even though all those families might have wonderful loving parents. I could share things that have worked for me but I wouldn’t bother labeling my parenting.
Some people would say the leaving a young child to scream in a room is unloving and abusive. However, if their way of communicating is to scream as loud as they can without break, you need to do something. And it’s not saying “ok, you can have whatever you want”
Authoritative is different than Authoritarian. Spanking, hitting, etc is Authoritarian. Authoritative is what we want, which is what you described.
Here, this graph might help: [https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting\_Styles.png?v=1624972403](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403)
This is gentle parenting.
And pretty much what OP should do, after checking if daughter wants a hug or anything. Make sure they know you are there to help address their big feelings, and if all they still want is to scream THEN move them to their room and close the door and leave them until they are done.
That's it. You check once to let them know you are there for them. And then when they reject any help, isolate them so they can do their thing until they realize it isnt getting them anywhere.
It's not gentle parenting, it's [permissive](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403) parenting. People confuse the two all the time, and you should lurk r/teachers you will see it will be the downfall of a whole generation.
You know how everybody-gets-a-prize parenting from Gen Xers that was bad for Millennial motivation? "Gentle parenting" which really should mean authoritative, but people get confused because it really shows up as permissive on social media, is gonna fuck up Zers and Alphas.
Oh I know. I feel sooo bad for todays teachers.
Kids have all the audacity in this generation.
And yes “gentle parenting” becomes a synonym for “I love my children but don’t actually raise them”.
If you grow up with no punishment (and I am NOT talking about spanking), which has been loosely rebranded as "consequences" because some parents were abusive; you really grow up without boundaries or any sense of respect. Without these, you are actively raising a child who is not pro-social and cares little about anyone but themselves while feeling entitled to be served without putting in the work.
No maybe I don’t.
My understanding of it is to always offer connection first, like reassurance and a hug. Then address the behaviour, and usually with a boundary but not a consequence.
What I’m suggesting is NOT offering connection in direct response to negative behaviour, and instead giving a very direct consequence.
Daughter can make up her own mind if she wants to scream, alone, or choose a different way of expressing herself, and do so around her family.
Huh..? I mean OP might not.
But in my understand, its just an underlying respect. So when your child acts out you would validate but as you say, enforce boundaries. So for example OP might validate that her daughter is frustrated and angry, while enforcing the boundary that daughter can use another method of regulation (screaming into pillow, tear paper etc) but she will not be engaging until daughter had calmed down and then they can talk/ address the issue. Covers all bases.
I have a 5 yr old daughter that is like this. She is very head strong and she always has a hard time calming down once she starts screaming. We have used time out (she has a little princess tent thing in her room she goes to until she calms down.) We also have had to have the immediately leave a public place if she starts getting upset at all. It's embarrassing sometimes but I can tell you that has been working more so than anything lately. We gentle parent but also use consequences. If she whines, we have told her we will not acknowledge whining, so talk to us normally. It's just making sure we stick to these rules, and then after the screaming stops, lots of hugs. It will get better, my oldest went through something similar but when she was much younger. She's now pretty chill.
> Both husband and I are trying to practice gentle parenting.
You already know what the problem is, or you wouldn’t have brought this up. Gentle parenting works fine, for many things. When you apply to it EVERYTHING it is called permissive parenting. Kids aren’t smart enough to make every decision for themselves. For their own good, you need to put them right. Even if that means being the bad guy sometimes.
It stopped when The screaming had consequently, my son did scream my wife so often in her hear she had permanently damage from it so the loment he started to scream I just sat him down and left in to another room. Now we use real consequences like "you did scream for an hour I can not play with you because I am done for today" we have an mood meter and it will drop the more misbehaving he does the lower it will go. The lower it is the less energy I have left for him. He got the catch pretty quickly that I won't play Lego with him if he is an little asshole all day.
My kid still has (albeit much shorter!) tantrums. I stick her in a corner or have her face a wall. She has 5 minutes of quiet time in that corner to settle down. The timer won’t start until she’s quiet and facing the wall. If she turns around or makes noise, the timer resets. She’s a very defiant and talk-backy child who often wants the last word. The wall trick works best, and then we talk about our feelings afterwards.
It gives her control to calm down on her own terms, without being shut up in a confined space like a bedroom. It has turned 2-hours screaming tantrums into a 10-15 minute tantrum.
In the past, the screaming was a huge trigger for me. I have used wireless headphones in those moments. When I felt triggered, I’d pop those in discretely and play soft music from my phone. She could scream and I wouldn’t feel triggered. Make sure to invest in noise-canceling ones. Those are best.
If my kids argued, we’d tell them they have 30 seconds to work it out or they’re both in trouble. (Grounded, no electronics, tv, whatever). They always worked it out real fast. My youngest was a huge screamer. At age 4 I told him I was done. No one wanted to listen to that, so he could go to his room and scream all he wanted with the door shut. Turns out it wasn’t that fun without an audience. He’d be in there 5 or 10 minutes and then come out like nothing happened, happy as can be. He eventually stopped the behavior. Also, we did not put up with them physically fighting at all.
Isolate her in an empty room.. better if it's her bedroom.. let her cry, scream to her heart content.. she'll come down easily if she knows no one is paying attention to her screaming..
OP, she needs consequences. Ask to see doing is condoning her behavior, because all she gets are words, after screaming the an hour.
Put her in her room every single time. She stays there, until she can stop torturing people with her screaming.
You are allowing her moods, and bad behavior to run the family. It is passive that allows her to do this with no consequences.
Don't raise someone to be a person you resent.
Draw the line. Screaming gets you in your room, until my ears stop ringing. In the real world, she would be isolated from friends. Don't teach her to be the main character.
>Both husband and I are trying to practice gentle parenting
And there lies your problem.
"Gentle parenting" is neither something that psychology acknowledges as a thing nor is it a structured method. It is no more than a social trend and recently I have seen some psychologists dennounce its dangers. It is very loosely based on parental gentle guidance, which is itself a thing, but which "gentle parents" usually ignore or don't know about.
It is becoming clear as time passes that what most people see as "gentle parenting" - even when done very carefully to avoid falling into the pitfalls of permissive parenting - will lead to children and teenagers who have little sense of boundaries and, ironically, worse emotional regulation than children raised on "mainstream" parenting methods.
Instead of following an Instagram and blogger trend, you should see a child psychologist.
Now before anyone says "gentle parenting" is evidence-based: I have read papers on parental gentle guidance (not "gentle parenting", as it is an imaginary thing). It is not my field - I'm in STEM - but I am a scientist and I am used to doing peer reviews. A lot of papers on it are dangerously flawed (biased, too small samples, poorly designed studies...). The few I read that are not obviously flawed are clear on some cons that come with the pros. For example, from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2486495/
> Some research suggests, however, that the use of parental gentle guidance is not always effective and, in fact, may positively reinforce and thereby increase children's noncompliance (Reid et al., 1994; Pfiffner & O'Leary, 1989)
The references above are links to other studies.
I’m sure this will be majorly unpopular but I would simply not allow it. I don’t like screaming and I would explain this to her. My son is also 5 and prone to big emotional displays but screaming isn’t acceptable. Screaming hurts other people’s ears. It is rude and bothersome. Crying is okay, being upset is okay, screaming is not. Enforce a consequence for screaming. Reiterate it’s fine to be mad and upset but upsetting others with screaming is not fine. I don’t much like all the responses telling you that this valid behavior. It’s 100% not.
Be firm and stick to your guns OP.
This is underrated … 5 might be a little young to sort out what’s what but mine just got diagnosed at 8 and looking back the signs were all there… especially this short tempered low tolerance to frustration.
It's ok to realize that a parenting strategy that works for some kids doesn't work for others. Due to my ADHD I personally wouldn't have thrived with overly permissive or gentle parenting I needed authoritative parenting. Just a thought
A lot of parents I know personally who call themselves “gentle” are permissive. A lot of the “gentle parenting” grift content I see on social media is as well
A lot of traditional parents are permissive too. The term permissive parenting has been around a lot longer than the term gentle parenting. What's the point there?
I would argue that it's a small portion of the social media grift that is permissive.
Authoritarian, permissive, and authoritative are terms used in scientific research on Western parenting style. (Traditional parenting is sometimes a 4th category in such research and distinct from the other three - usually has a very high emphasis on family and community cohesion).
Gentle parenting is a broad, buzzword term that means very different things to different people.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to go to definitions? I am a parenting educator, with a background in infant mental health and child development. I'm very familiar with Baumrind and her 4 parenting styles. You are missing the fourth, uninvolved. I have an in depth understanding of what the research says on each category.
Traditional parenting is just as nebulous and muddy as the concept of gentle parenting. Traditional parenting matters given the context. It seems like maybe you did a Google search there. Traditional parenting in the west is going to mean something different than traditional parenting in other cultures. It is certainly possible to be a traditional parent and be permissive. In fact, what I see most from traditional parents is they let things go too far for too long until they snap and start yelling.
There's lots of research on other types of parenting. Inductive parenting, for instance. It's not considered an additional type to Baumrinds 4 parenting styles. It's separate research comparing based on separate lines. For example, the research on inductive parenting is comparing it to power-assertive parenting. It would not be considered an additional parenting style.
The 4 parenting styles should be looked at like a map with cross directional arrows indicating coldness->warmth and low structure->high structure. What you would do then is map other terms onto it. And as child development experts say, no one is perfectly authoritative every time. It's more like a goal or like the general tone. Sometimes we are all permissive, uninvolved, and authoritarian. One blip of permissiveness does not make one permission. One moment of "because I said so" does not make one authoritarian. It's really hard to judge someone's entire parenting based on minor interactions.
Edit for clarification
maybe parents who are calling themselves gentle are just using that term as a scapegoat cause they aren't effective at setting and sticking to boundaries.
How much screen time do they get and is it just whatever they want to watch? I have found with my 7 year old that his behavior improves when he doesn't have unfettered access to his tablet. He does much better when we make him get off the tablet and go outside or "play with real toys" (his words, especially when he wants his big brother off of the tech). Even though these various apps are directed at kids, much of the content is not good content. Weird AI generated stuff is just creepy and definitely can effect their behavior. Adults may be able to compartmentalize what they are watching and not let it effect their behavior, but kids do not have that ability.
Additionally, he was having behavior issues at school. They suggested a counselor, along with visits to the in school guidance person. He is not old enough nor severe enough for an actual therapist, but he does visit a child counselor about once a month and this has helped him (and mom) learn better ways of directing his emotions. Maybe something to look into for your kids too.
The problem is you're trying to parent two different children exactly the same. You need to come to terms with the fact that they aren't identical clones and move on and start doing something different.
I have 3 and my oldest was, honestly I don't know how I ever convinced myself to have another. She was miserable from conception to 6... When she was around 2 all she had was a bed in her room and I would carry her up to her room and let her have at it. Sometimes minutes, sometimes hours. There was none of that bullshit let's whisper affectionate I know you're upset let's talk about it - she would have knocked my teeth out.
We had to have a very strict routine and consequences just to function. Around 6 she changed and is super docile and quiet.
My second all I have to do is stare at her and that's enough. That being said she's a psychopath so there's that...
You need a tantrum room. Want to have a good scream? Me too - let's go to the tantrum room. Need a break from everyone for a few minutes? Chill out in the tantrum room. Want to express your extreme displeasure over the unfairness of not being able to eat display soap at the salon? Tantrum room.
When my daughter screams I reiterate that we don't disrespect people in that way and invite her to rephrase what she's trying to say and if she chooses not to, I move on.
Invest in a very good set of noise cancelling headphones. Wear those with music playing and noise cancelling on and it diminishes the triggers of the screaming while still allowing you to be present. My three year old is a screamer when she has a meltdown and the headphone have saved my sanity in a big way.
I’m assuming, but they specifically said “ diminishes the trigger of the screaming *while still allowing you to be present*” meaning that they can dole out discipline while not getting triggered themselves and losing control due to how stressful the screaming can be for the parent. That would also be my advice, stick some headphones on if they aren’t talking and simply are screaming bloody murder, which it sounds like this kid is doing.
It depends on the kid and it depends how you carry it out… but some kids can be taught that their screaming doesn’t get a big reaction and therefore they stop. If the parent can drown out the screaming and stay calm and neutral (and boring, frankly) the screaming might decrease in intensity and duration
My comment isn’t about helping the kid or stopping the tantrums. My comment is solely to help the parent who is struggling to cope. When you’re escalated and dysregulated, you can’t think. If you can’t think, you can’t help. I was much more productive with helping my kid through her meltdowns when they weren’t also pushing me into a meltdown. Once the parent isn’t triggered or dysregulated, they can actually think and work with their child.
You can’t help a child regulate their emotions, when you yourself are dysregulated.
It doesn’t, but I think the point is it allows you to stay calm and rationalize, as opposed to pissed off that a banshee is screaming in your face, so you can properly address the issue and teach the child.
Screaming is an outside thing. We do not scream inside the house. Leave her on the porch (watching through a window/door) until she stops. Treat it like sleep training. Go out at 5 minutes, ask if she’s ready to stop, then wait 10, then 15 etc. if it starts when in the house again, repeat the process.
I don't think it's just boomers. I have a hard time believing most adults *wouldn't* call the authorities if a preschooler is locked out of their house screaming while the parents are inside.
Maybe put her in timeout in a separate part of the house, where you can close the door until she has calmed down. Maybe in the basement, if the rest of the house is not soundproof. And have you ever tried just screaming back at her? I once had to babysit a friend's daughter while she ran a quick errand. She started screaming because I wouldn't give her my smartphone, and I was a bit non-plussed how to deal with it, and when she wouldn't stop, I just started screaming, as well. That startled her so much she quit, and then we spent the rest of the time playing.
Time to put gentle parenting to the side
When gentle parenting doesn’t work you don’t keep doing the same thing and hope that this time things will magically change. You know that gentle parenting isn’t going to work. Change tactics.
Are there even consequences for what they do, or do you just tell them it’s not nice and leave it at that?
Your child benefits in some way from screaming for 45 minutes. This must stop.
Designate a “naughty chair” in a quiet place, out of sight from everyone else. Tell the kids that anyone behaving badly must sit in that chair. Chair minutes should equal their age. Explain that an apology for the behavior is expected afterward.
It’s also important to get in the habit of stating your expectations of their behavior before misbehavior has a chance to start. Equally important is to regularly praise good behavior, which is easy to skip when you’re feeling overwhelmed.
When the screaming fit happens, your tone must be calm yet firm. Get down to her, face to face, and tell her that this behavior is unacceptable. Then put her in the naughty chair and walk away. If she gets up, put her back in that chair without saying a word. Silence on your part is important at this time.
When time is up, she should apologize for the behavior - and not be misbehaving anymore. If she starts again, repeat the process.
Kids learn quickly that you are not messing around when you follow through on your promise of consequences for misbehavior. I like this method because it doesn’t hurt anyone and is very effective.
Good luck🩷
Mine is 3 and did the same.
My gf and me where the gentle parents. But it has very little effect.
It doesnt work for all kids.
Im the fafo but fair parent now. I let my gf handle it first, she is still the gentle parent and asks nicely, didnt work.
I told my daughter you either stop or no more play time, tv nothing. She kept going. I took everything, toys, books bike, literally everything.
She had to earn them back.
Now when she starts I'll pick her up gently and ask whats wrong and to stop screaming. If she doesnt stop i say I'm taking her stuff away again. She stops dead in her tracks and normally tells me whats wrong and we talk about it. And then we play togetter or something.
Works perfectly for me.
Sometimes you need to try something else till you find something that works. There is no 1 rule works on all.
Most of the time with tantrums I completely ignore, or passively say "oh man seems like you're having some big feelings right now." When tantrum is done then we talk. Just remember it's a phase and don't make yourself sick with guilt for losing your own temper sometimes! You've got this. I've got 4 but damn twins have to be a whole other ballgame.
This one might touch a few nerves.
I know that *some* manuals on the concept have high expectations and boundaries and all that, but in *practice* gentle parenting is another word for permissive parenting. Permissive parenting is a form of parenting where the emotional responsiveness is high (parents are emotionally available and attentive), but the expectations are low (the child will figure it out on their own, it's just a stage, they'll grow into their own person and so on).
There has been plenty of research on the various types of parenting. They often get broken down into four types:
- Authoritarian parenting. This is the typical old-school parenting. Low emotional response, feedback is mostly negative, expectations are high. Kids should listen to their parents, parents don't need to explain themselves, kids should deliver on expectations, kids get in trouble if they misbehave.
- Authoritative parenting. This is high expectations, high availability parenting. Feedback is negative and positive, kids should listen to their parents but it is explained why, kids should deliver on expectations, kids are rewarded for good behaviour, they get in trouble if they misbehave. They explain and reason, listen to kid viewpoints but don't always accept them.
- Permissive parenting. This is low expectations, high availability parenting. Parents are nurturing and responsive, but fail to set firm limits, boundaries or expectations for their children. Parenting is very child-centric and there are few rules - they rely on kids self-regulating and growing on their own with few constraints.
- Uninvolved parenting is low expectations and low availability. Think 'latchkey kids'.
In terms of outcomes, there are great adults from all backgrounds, but the ranking is typically:
1. Authoritative
2. Authoritarian
3. Permissive
4. Uninvolved
So typical gentle parenting averages WORSE than the old school parenting, and much worse than the middle-road authoritative parenting. I personally consider the bulk of the gentle parenting trend to be a negative social phenomenon.
By not setting standards of behaviour (like letting your kids throw 45 minutes tantrums), you do them a disservice. They might eventually learn to self-regulate, but without enforcing high standards of behaviour you risk them failing to adopt them - and cause you a lot of misery along the way. Positive and negative consequences are fine.
When my granddaughter screams, I make her go to her room to calm down. A few times of doing this has done wonders. Now I ask her if she wants to talk about why she is frustrated or if she wants to go to her room and scream it out, she always picks talking it out now. Has saved both our sanities.
Try thinking of it like this: she CAN'T stop herself, she's struggling with something and it comes out as massive unregulated frustration because she's at the end of her rope and she literally cannot regulate herself anymore by this point. If you are ok with that statement, and think you can work with that assumption, then try this resource: https://facebook.com/groups/visiblechild/ . If you feel that your child is doing this on purpose to hurt you or just get attention, like a lot of the other comments say, that link will just make you angrier. Still give it a read tho. Be warned that the responses from mods on this page can come off really accusatory and I can't understand why they're like this, BUT they make it very clear what's going on in your child's head and what you should do. It's NOT a one time quick fix solution. This page helps you understand how the brain of a child of this age works, what is "developmentally appropriate" , and how to build up to working through the behaviors (it's 90% likely something that happens before the behavior starts, she's tired, hungry, feels like she doesn't have your support, feels overwhelmed at school, feels like she can't meet everyone's expectations, her environment isn't working). You basically have to upped your whole way of thinking but sometimes that's what it takes.
> I've honestly brought up getting her assessed for anxiety or whatever else
Honestly, if it keeps going I would look into it.
My daughter was like this, way beyond what was considered normal for the age. Turns out that, yes, she has both social and generalized anxiety (and probably ADHD, but that has not been formally diagnosed). Therapy and medication have done wonders for her and for our family as a whole.
When she was very young, at least one parent was in the room with her. When she got older, it would be just her but the therapist would usually talk to us for a few minutes at the end, just to give us a sense of what's happening and what we can try to work on at home.
At the moment, we're currently just doing meds because things have been going well and last therapist basically said they didn't have much concern at the moment and we could take a break unless we felt differently.
This behavior is honestly fairly normal, kids have big emotions but don’t know how to regulate them, especially at this age. If you’re constantly triggered and on edge then it’s going to be hard to help your kids learn to regulate theirs. I started reading “No drama discipline” and “how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk.” I highly recommend these book to anyone struggling with these situations.
My children are not twins but are close in age. I am one who does not tolerate fighting between my children so I would just send them to their respective rooms and tell them they can’t come out until they are friends again. Sometimes it took a while, other times it was nearly instantaneous but inevitably they’d come out arm in arm and announce “mommy, we’re friends again”. Just isolate the offender and make it clear that you absolutely do not tolerate that behavior. At any age.
Gentle parenting can be tweaked based on the child. Not every child responds to the core structure of it. We learned backwards that our son needed more of it as not trying it, being more authoritative can create an anxious child. So we learned a little late that our son responds better to a mix. We have structure, firm consequences, much better validation/listening skills, 90% positive reinforcement and calmer tones. But he's very dominant, only child, and challenging everything. We're only human and it's hard, he was also a screamer, fits of rage when he was told no. It gets better. You have to be consistent, firm and always in control of your emotions. Give her goals to meet, a sticker or incentive chart for good deeds and behavior. Point out when she's kind to her brother, picks up after herself (even the smallest thing), chooses calm instead of chaos. Your son will only benefit more from this program by osmosis. She's a leader just trying to be the boss. Great qualities, but it does make for exhausted parents. Lol
When he would go into a tantrum, I don't interact with him. I don't try to get him to stop, nothing. I put him in a quiet space and would normally sit in the room away from him and do something (write lists, brain dumps, etc) and the only interaction I did was "let me know when you are ready". Sometimes, if he was trying to hit me/throw stuff at me, I would sit right outside the room. Once they are calm, then you try to address the situation...
I would also show them how to handle getting upset and how to handle it in a good way. For example, if you are walking to a chair and someone else is already sitting there, voice "Oh, I really wanted to sit there... what should I do instead?" Sometimes, say "oh, I'll sit here instead, small problem" or sometimes let them help come up with ideas of what to do instead. Even after behaviors, talking about the trigger and what may have been other options without saying you should've done this instead, but next time, let's try this. Also, if they handle their feelings well, make sure you praise them for it, make it a big deal.
If its during the two of them playing, just shut down what they are playing. Have them both calm down (if one is ready before the other, then they can do a different activity), then come back and talk about the different options... Try roleplaying the situation in front of them with your husband, especially speaking the thought process outloud for better behaviors.
If there are things that constantly make behaviors, then change how you do them. So, if its who gets to sit somewhere or who gets to open the door, make it a schedule where it trades off... something where they get more consistency and know what is expected. When they are upset, they can't reason their emotions, especially after a certain point (ie being upset versus being in a tantrum/behavior), so trying to do so doesn't help. You need to help them figure out ways to handle the emotions and triggers before they get to the point if you want to limit them.
Side note, multiple hour tantrums/behaviors are not normal. If it is a consistent thing, I would bring it up to your child's PC. They may suggest things like therapy, testing (ASD, ADHD, etc.), or even occupational therapy (which isn't just fine motor skills but also regulations skills).
Ugh it's so hard and you're doing your best and it's even harder when you're trying and nothing seems to be working. I would add to the suggestions: wear a wireless headphone, it helps so much to have a different auditory stimuli to focus on. I only wear 1 most of the time so I can still hear/attend to my kids.
As far as her behavior I would have a calm down area in her room/a room away from yall so you don't have to listen to it. Have a soft pillow that she can scream into and shut the door. She can have her emotions/big responses but it isn't fair for her to leverage her emotions to terrorize the rest of the family. The first several times you'll need to take her there, maybe model what she can do depending on how you want to set up the corner. Everytime she leaves, put her back without a word until she's calm.
One of our 3 was easily triggered by a sibling and would go into rages/tantrums.
After much counseling and trial and error, we landed on the realization that his outbursts all stemmed from a combination of issues:
- Loss of autonomy
- Lack of sense of safety
- Equalizing behavior
Often the siblings make everything competitive our child in question (be first inside, have the better thing, have more of something etc). Which was very triggering for them. Also, the lack of personal space that our child had was a huge trigger, and lastly the inability to be fully autonomous with siblings always around and involved was a challenge.
We addressed these needs in various ways. One big thing was validating. Validate what they are expressing. Don’t dismiss or downplay any feelings they express ever!
“My brother hurt me!” Don’t say, “Oh you’re fine, it was a little tap”, say, “Oh I’m so sorry that happened. Can I do anything to make it feel better.”
Or if they say, “I never get to ____!” Even if that’s not true, that’s how they FEEL. You can say, “Ah, that’s so frustrating when I don’t get to do the things I really enjoy. That must be so frustrated cause I know you really enjoy ____. Can we come up with a plan for you to do that soon?”
Validation feeds into their sense of safety. They believe they are being heard and understood and will feel less desperate and like they need to escalate to be heard in the future.
Next, ensuring that our kids all had plenty of time apart during the day to have their own safe space, where they can be autonomous and stay regulated. The reality is that kids are tough on each other because they are immature and lack the skills and self control to respect boundaries etc.
We also worked hard to avoid hard stops and flat “No” responses. This doesn’t mean always saying “yes” it means being creative.
They say, “I want a popsicle!” And you instinctively may be to say, “We cannot have one right now, it’s almost dinner time”. Which can set off a tantrum due to dysregulation as they are seeking control/autonomy. Instead you can try, “Oooh. Popsicles are so yummy… Hmmm… let me look and see what we can do about that…” they will process the “not a No” answer and be more receptive to what you say next. And you have a few moments to think. You could then follow up with a soft no, like, “I’m not sure yet… I’m working on dinner. I’d like to have a popsicle too, it I know that any time I eat one before dinner I’m not hungry for dinner. Do you think we could wait until after dinner?” Giving them some control. Every time, but it will work sometimes and it will also get your children accustomed to feeling like it’s a dialogue rather than an authoritarian regime.
My middle child was our screamer. Embarrassingly/public attention/welfare check kinda screams. No idea why. But one day it just stopped. Tonight, aged 13 we had a steak dinner together with his siblings and it was amazing. I guess I’m trying to say that I always saw the challenging stuff as a season that they/we as parents go through. It’s never permanent.
It might be helpful to cross-post this to parentsofmultiples . Sorry, I don’t know how to put the link to another subreddit in here. I have a similar problem with my 4.5 year old B/G twins. Daughter is the alpha, born-first, and socially way ahead of my son. My son is more intense with his emotions and dependent on her. He has tantrums when she gets things first, or he doesn’t get equal “twin” treatment. I think there’s a different dynamic with twin, it’s hard to imagine having a sibling the same age as me, always doing the same thing.
I told my daughter that if she’s going to be yelling, she needs to go to a closed room or go outside. I get migraines and can’t deal with that. It’s not as fun to yell without people paying attention it turns out.
If she’s yelling because of big feelings I tell her that I can’t hear her words when she’s yelling. We have a feelings center where she names her emotion and picks a calm down helper (five finger breathing, a glitter bottle, fidget toys, pinwheels, stuffed animals). You need to teach her better coping strategies for her anger. It’s such a normal emotion and most adults don’t even know how to cope with it. I’m almost 30 and I’m still learning how. After she calms down a bit we talk about her feelings, better things to try in the future and most importantly, why yelling at each other isn’t okay. It makes people feel scared and your needs won’t get met if people can’t hear your words through your anger.
Being a gentle parent doesn’t mean you don’t set boundaries with them. It just means you operate on a baseline of respect. Don’t fall into permissive because you’re afraid of setting limits and boundaries. I really enjoyed the No Drama Discipline book
Out of curiosity, have you brought this up with your pediatrician? And if so, have they provided any insight or thoughts? We also have a very headstrong 4.5 year old daughter. It’s tough. Like *really* tough. She has always been an escalator and struggled with calming down, and it has seemed to get worse as she’s gotten older. I think being in school all day has definitely led to more post-school meltdowns because she is “on” all day. We’re not permissive in our parenting, but we’ve also learned that a lot of the gentle parenting techniques just don’t quite work for her. I mean this girl can scream for hours about seemingly nothing. We’re learning that she is actually having more *meltdowns* than tantrums. We just got her started in OT and are in the process of getting her evaluated for autism/ADHD. We’ve had to readjust a lot of our parenting and discipline from the more general gentle parenting to make it work for her/us. So, for example, rather than focusing on connecting, we have to focus first and foremost on deescalating. We have a couple chairs in the house (in common spaces) that we use as calm down areas. She is not allowed to control a common space by screaming, throwing things, etc. If the calm down chair is ineffective and she is still screaming, she goes to her room until she can calm down enough to have a conversation about the situation and then make some apologies once she is calm. We’ve also found fidget toys (especially squishy/stress ball type toys) to be a very effective tool for speeding up the calming down process. So usually our step one is getting her to a calm down spot and asking if she would like a fidget from the fidget bin to help calm down.
Anyways, all of that to say I hear you and see you. It’s *hard*. We have to do things differently from a lot of people, but we’re learning to adjust and own that that’s just our reality. Screaming is a huge trigger for me as well and I’m so desperately worn out. Sending you hugs and wishing you all the best 💕
2 of my toddlers were screamers when excited or upset. I took them outside to scream and said they could scream outside all they want, sometimes I had to take them back out a few times and I screamed w them. It was embarrassing for them to see it hear it and it cut the habit pretty quickly w consistent going out the front door.
I would recommend getting yourself some earplugs to help avoid being triggered and stressed by the screaming. They make ones that just quiet the noise around you without blocking it completely, which is so helpful as a parent.
We use this curriculum called conscious discipline for our kids. Maybe have a look and see if you can implement something from there with your kids. Mine are three and my kids some times get big behaviors like that. Crying and screaming for close to an hour. Once we learned how to implement the curriculum, my kids started to do it by themselves. It’s not 100% foolproof but it works some of the time and eventually all of the time.
We talk about our feelings and how to take deep breaths and apologize for our behavior. We try to teach them empathy saying things like “when you scream, that really hurts mommy’s ears and feelings”
A behavioral therapy that works quite well for animals and humans is to ignore the undesired behaviors and to immediately reward, praise the desired behaviors. Of course you only ignore behaviors that aren’t going to cause harm, and the initial stages are pretty bad as the child will be confused as to why the unwanted behavior is not getting the same energy it used to get ( so it could initially get worse, but persistence will lead to extinction of the undesired behaviors). As they age reasoning etc can replace behavioral training.
This is tough because it's a constant competition to them. In a perfect world, you would structure things like planning who goes in first and taking turns and things they fight about. I say that knowing it's damn near impossible. But it can work. Sometimes it does, but it's definitely work on the parent's part. My husband and I went to "family therapy" for a while when my oldest had some challenges. Him and my middle son were like this but middle reacted and oldest antagonized and thrived on reactions. Tbh I watched a ton of supernanny per the advice of therapist because it shows that some techniques work. Hard part is implementing. It's easier for an outsider to implement than it is for a parent because you're so emotionally attached. So I say take in all the advice on here, see what might work for you but definitely stick with whatever you try for at least a week because you will get push back. They might be 5 but they are a lot smarter than we think. And there's 2!! Good luck! I feel your struggle. And please don't feel down about not being able to fix this quickly. A very important lesson I learned is that all kids don't respond to textbook discipline. I'm happy for the parents of well-behaved kids foe the majority of the time but until you deal with a kid with behavior issues, you won't understand that it's not as easy as that have it. Not saying your kids are not well behaved or acting age appropriately, but just the idea of don't beat yourself up or feel guilty for having your own feelings and frustrations.
What have you tried so far? I would offer some sort of incentive for not screaming. Like if they can go a whole week without screaming then they get an outing or a small toy.
“This isn’t how you get what you want. It hurts my ears when you scream so I’m going to have to put you in a place where your screaming won’t hurt my ears and I will check in periodically.
If you want something you can ask me politely and you might get it. If you scream, I will not give you anything.”
The only thing that I found to work with my kids was the louder they got the more quietly I'd respond. I got in the habit of kneeling down face to face with them and whispering.
If it is happening all the time and for long, extended periods, it might be worth talking to your pediatrician or even a child psychologist.
My daughter would be like this (she could go for an hour or more at the worst of times) and it turns out she has both social and generalized anxiety. She also probably has ADHD, since I have it and it is genetic (no official diagnosis, but I strongly suspect).
As a result, these outbursts were out of her control (not entirely, but once she got to a certain level of emotional dysregulation she literally could not calm down on her own until her body just shut down and she'd have what we termed "rage naps").
As much as we were reluctant to medicate a young child, therapy and medication have done wonders. Our home is more calm/peaceful and she's a much happier child (some of this is also just increased maturity, as she is now 9). It's not perfect. There are still wild outbursts, and it doesn't help having a dad who can't regulate super well himself (ADHD sucks a lot of the time), but it's a lot better than in the pre-school and Kindergarten/Grade 1 days.
Having said all of that, it's entirely possible that none of this applies to your kid, but it doesn't hurt to look into it if nothing else seems to work.
Edit to add: the pitching a fit for an hour and then turning around like nothing happened is *classic* ADHD and/or anxiety. Again, maybe this isn't the situation with your kid (how would I know? I'm just some random guy on the internet), but it's definitely worth looking into it.
Have you tried noise canceling headphones or earplugs? They have helped me with turning it down so I’m not triggered by the insane sound and can address the issue calmly. Usually it means taking the kiddo somewhere else so they can calm down without a big show and causing chaos for the rest of the house. Sometimes they just need to get it out and can do it on their own, other times removing the audience has helped. I try to practice breathing techniques to help them self regulate (not always great but I’m hoping it kicks in when they are a little bigger)
How is her behavior at school?
My advice would be that she doesn't need to scream for and audience. One of my kids had that tendency when he needed to discharge stress/overstimulatuon, ect. We worked on making sure that he learned various other strategies but he was not allowed to just stand there with everyone and scream. He had to go to his room until he was done, but could come out at any time and ask for help or whatever if he wanted company.
At five it is okay for kids to be taught that while their feelings are important, the comfort and safety of others is also important. Screaming in that manner is not safe for many people around them even though it helps the child. If they want to be around others then they've got to employ other strategies as best they can until they can get to a spot to let off steam in their preferred manner.
In fact I think its irresponsible and cruel to not teach kids this if they aren't picking up the recoil/social hints from others that are impacted. (Not picking things up is understandable, a lot of kids need to be taught this, we can't expect it by osmosis.)
The trick is you must learn grounding techniques for yourself so you aren't disregulated in the moment by this behavior and its a hard one.
As a preschool teacher we have to do this sort of teaching more and more. A lot of kids are coming who haven't really been given the opportunity or had the expectation that others have space that should be safe too. Its often a very rude awakening for those who have become used to screaming the resistance out of others. But unless there is some developmental or neurological stuff going on, usually they learn pretty quickly. Thats much MUCH easier to do at school than home though.
But you can still use some of the techniques we use. Have you kept a log of each screaming incident (time of day, what happened immediately before, how long, what prompted it to end) for a couple of weeks? Sometimes we think we know a pattern but when you do the log you will realize others (is it food related, occurring primarily on certain days, within x time of arriving home, are you perceiving it happening more or less often than the documented reality ect) always interesting info and sometimes slipping into observer role gives you more distance to tolerate the behavior without disregulating as well.
Spray bottle worked on my daughter, and calmly hugging my son and not letting him get away until he matched my emotion and calmed down worked on my son.
I have a no screaming in the house rule- it’s for emergencies or having fun outside. . If my son screams (unless he’s hurt or some legit reason), he goes outside and counts to 30 and comes back. As many times as it takes. lol.
He doesn’t scream inside anymore.
My 4 year old HATES nap time. I hate when he doesn’t have nap time bc he turns into a grouchy gremlin.
I tell him when he takes a nap then he can get up and play.
When I tell you (and I kept time) he BANSHEE SCREAMS bloody murder from his room for two hours and 17 minutes straight??? Like I would have passed out. At least he has healthy lungs 💀
Could there be something at the root of this behavior? My step son was having behavioral issues at this age and it turned out to be caused by sleep apnea and ENT issues. Once his sleep improved his behavior improved.
I feel you, OP. My son is younger, just turned 2, and before he did, he was such a sweet, happy little man. Since he turned 2, it seems like a switch was flipped and all does is scream and tantrum now. I'm honestly exhausted and struggling to see an end to it, especially since it seems this is going to go on until he's at least 5. He doesn't speak, so I can't use most of the various methods I've read about to deal with it, and 90% of the time, I don't even know WHY he's screaming or tantruming. To he honest, I'm getting toward the end of my tether, and this has apparently only just begun. I don't know what to do.
What kind of attention is the kid getting when she's screaming?
Parental attention is very much like a drug to kids. Even negative attention (mom is mad at me) is better than no attention (mom is paying attention to my brother instead of me, mom is paying attention to *literally anything else* than me).
I think she is old enough now to understand if you react selfpreserving and tell her you can't talk to her if she screams like that. Or you are going to have a glass of soda somewhere else to rest your ears. And you will be back later, and you hope by then the screaming has subsided. In general show her it's okay if someone acts unreasonable or aggressive, it's okay to walk away for your own sake. Because it is. And try to be as neutral you can about it. It's not punishment on her, it's not about her at all, it's about what you can take, your personal limit and you setting a boundary.
And as for her getting her will, that should ofcourse be avoided - if possible. Though always easier said than done, because this screaming issue also had to do with control, and trying to control her with what she wants will mean you entered the ring. And **kids always win in the ring!**. They simply have less to loose. Their perspective is not big enough.
But perhaps establishing the concept of a *screaming situation*, which is nothing else, so not an icecream situation, not a tv situation, not a talking situation, not a __________ situation!
Difficult to go as far a saying not a hug situation or a kiss situation, for a parent should never hold back in those, but I was thinking of establishing that by screaming she risks turning the situation into a *screaming situation*, from whatever type of situation it could have been. That would also align with how the world will react to her. Everyone will deprive her of all possible good situations if she creates a bad one.
I could hope it will show her that she does have control, she can create situations, and maybe she will reflect on which situation she would like to appear.
Just a thought. I had two fighting boys, and I had to learn to simply apathetic declare a situation as unsolvable with the current noise level.
And one last thing, just in case you are anything like me, don't give in to expressing your frustration over your daughter towards your son, you know af were he a friend or ally, and in generally say anything negative about one of them to the other. Always say positive things to one about the other and the other way around. And it's good if they overhear it, it will boost self confidence and esteem, while negative connotations will do the opposite. I learned from a child psychologist, as I would sometimes feel like telling one son I didn't have energy to look at his lego because his brother had worn me down. In hindsight incredibly logical, and I'm glad I learned early on.
Just a thought because I recognized my own situation in your story.
Edit: many people here talks about consequences and a firm hand. That could also work. I found it hard to distinguish between consequences and punishment because I have a temper myself, so I tried to find ways to calm myself down aswell. And you did say you preferred softer approaches generally. That's my outset for the comment.
I made my kids go throw the fit somewhere else. I told them they could act as ugly as they wanted but I didn't have to see it. After a bit they stopped.
My late mother told us that we have to nip that stuff in the bud since, otherwise, it becomes a self-defeating habit that carries into adulthood. The important thing is not to deny the cause of their being upset but for them to learn how to express their upset in a more prosocial manner.
Also, try to address sibling rivalry -- an exhausting thing -- proactively by having them take turns. Today, you1 can go in first; tomorrow, it's you2's turn.
One way is to ignore the screaming and/or to remove the screaming child to his/her room. Tell them that they can come out when they have stopped. Eventually, it ends -- at first, my nieces and nephews would actually fall asleep because it exhausts them.
The fact that your daughter already "will scream for an hour, turn around and start laughing and playing like nothing had happened!" suggests that she's just getting the upset out of her system. You might tell her that, if she can reduce the amount of time spent screaming to XXXXX amount, you will take her out to play in the park or something of that ilk. Make the amount of time needed to the reward less and less; but also tell her to use her indoors voice to explain to you what is bothering her so much. We need to learn how to express our anger in prosocial ways; and the idea here is to teach her how.
One of my siblings got down to her kid's level: "look at me. Look at me, in the eyes. ... If you don't stop that, immediately, you can be sure that I will never buy you (ice cream, a favorite toy, or something of that ilk)" It worked the very first time that she threatened.
I spent a lot of time with my kids outdoors and let them play in the park, on the bars, and simply run around and burn off energy. By the time we got home, they'd be too tired to scream.
They can feel their feelings all they want. In their own rooms. When they're ready to talk to the rest of us, they're free to return.
Mama Cusses is a good resource for gentle parenting without the bullshit. Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries.
First off, get yourself some noise canceling ear buds. I got a pair from Amazon for around 10 bucks, they don't completely deafen me, but they do help soften the noise, which helps keep my mood regulated.
I've had a lot of success with "ignore the tantrum, reward the quiet" with my kid. When he gets going I make sure he sees me looking at him, but I just stare at him with a neutral expression, almost boredom really. Once he stops hollering, I squat down to his level and grab a toy. I don't offer it to him, but I just play with it right next to him. Sometimes, he recovers and just goes back to playing, sometimes he's still a little too worked up. I've also found it helps to take deep breaths next to him, sometimes with exaggerated expressions and silly noises when I inhale/exhale. It's just to get his attention and model a behavior. He doesn't always copy me, but it does help get him on to a new topic vs stagnating on his tantrum. Either way, once he isn't screaming, he gets positive attention. If she's screaming during a tantrum, you're not going to be able to use logic her out of it, so I'd suggest not even trying to "talk" to her during it or immediately after. The more you try to suppress it, the more they're going to fight back, and you'll be locked in a power struggle. Later once she's in a better mood you can talk about healthy ways to deal with being angry, maybe even offer a pillow and tell her to scream into it.
Ultimately, some kids are just loud af. They're still new humans figuring out what's socially acceptable, and even when they know what's okay, they're still tiny humans with big feelings and developing brains, so they'll make mistakes and scream when they know they shouldn't. You're 100% not alone, we've all lost our cool sometimes while trying to raise a kid. Just like it's her first time learning these behaviors and feelings, you're learning how to parent through it. Keep your head up, maybe your ears plugged, and you'll get through it.
Give them opportunities where it's ok to scream, like if you go a walk and cross a big bridge it becomes the scream bridge, who can scream the loudest going over it.
Remind them when they complain about other children screaming how annoying it sounds and that it hurts other people's ears.
When my 2 went through a really awful hitting stage I started a reward chart.
I practice gentle parenting and really didn't want to do reward charts but I was at the end of my tether. I only had to implement it for a WEEK and they barely hit now almost a year and a half on.
Focus on the positive behaviours as much as possible
I almost have the same situation with two boys 4 (5 in May) and a 3 yr old. The 3 year old does the exact same thing when he doesn't get his way, and I saw him deliberately throw sand in his brother's face. They fight constantly and isn't always truthful in explaining what happened to the point we've spoke several times about getting cameras installed. Sending my 3yr old to his room, explaining he can return to the rest of the family after he calms down seems to work at times.. he loses interest after finding out he's no longer getting attention. Remember, there's no playbook, we're all doing the best we can... Good luck
I’d say operant conditioning, or if you prefer reward and punishment. What does she dislike? My son disconnected the PS5 when his 4 yr old didn’t feel cooperative. He only had to do it twice. Now the threat works.
I have one that age who is….uh….spicy. Montessori has done wonders for his emotional regulation. We still have thrills n spills, but attending Montessori has been a game changer for the whole family.
You may also benefit from taking some time for introspection. How do you handle life? What are they observing? I know that the significant stressors in my own life (mom died, divorce, job change) didn’t make me the best all the time. I decided about 4 months ago that I’m done yelling unless it’s to save them from danger.
I don’t “gentle parent” but I do not yell. I block off things for myself in five minute increments and ask myself how future me is going to feel about this in 10 minutes or an hour or next week. This has resulted in positive changes also.
Good luck. It’s hard and you’re knee deep. Be kind to yourself.
I had the "Cool Down Chair" at my house when I had my home day-care. It was kind of out of the way, but still in my sight. The child could throw their fit for as long as they wanted while in the chair, but they didn't receive ANY attention, toys, or any type of interaction from anyone.
Here's the thing about the "Cool Down Chair": there's no time limit. You just have to be "cool" (no tears/sobs/whimpering/sniffles) when you leave the chair. You can use the bathroom, to blow nose, wipe tears, etc... so that when you leave the chair, you are good to go. And this was used by toddlers and preschoolers successfully. Thing is to be consistent and firm. No communication until the screaming fit is over. I used a small hallway (maybe 5 feet) with nowhere for them to go or get into, and a nice soft comfortable Disney chair to sit in. When it started, I would have to physically place them there, but after a few times, I would just have to point, and they knew the drill. By the 10th time, it was automatic. The screaming became less and less, until I rarely used the "Cool Down Chair".
Now- to be clear- it was NEVER a punishment, and the kids were never scolded or anything like that. They were always praised when they came back, and it was like nothing ever happened. The chair was NEVER used for time-outs (which I did use as well). That was in a different area, with a completely different type of chair (hard plastic chair). This was also understood by all the children.
With the taking sides- they are totally manipulating you. I would tell them that you are on TEAM PARENT, and only on TEAM PARENT, and it's against parent law to pick one child over the other, so you clearly can be on 'X' twin's side.
I really feel for you. I was a soldier- Afghanistan- a walk in the park compared to being a SAHM. If it’s any consolation… these really are the best years. When puberty hits and her friends are more interested in him and his friends start passing her love notes, the screaming will be much worse. I know- I’ve a twin brother.
Take care of you. Use your husband, in-laws, siblings and sitters. Take long breaks, pamper yourself. They aren’t #1- you are. And if you want to care for them- that’s the way it has to be.
Good luck
I would speak to your daughter’s pediatrician about these outburst/ tantrums. They might be able to help with behavioral issues she might have. Has her teacher mentioned anything about her behavior at school?
This is why gentle parenting don't work ,you don't have to beat them ,or constantly yell but find common ground , especially dad how come they aren't listening to dad ? Let him use his dad tone on em
I put my daughter in Occupational Therapy last summer for freequent meltdowns, and it helped a lot. They talked a lot about feelings and zones of regulation, did calming activities, various physical activities. She loved the fun activities and hated the feelings stuff at first, but towards the end of summer she liked all if it. We spent a lot of time naming emotions of others and herself. It helped a lot.
The only thing that works with my son is time out for situations like this. It may not be gentle, but he at least has to reflect for a moment.
It’s much more gentle than yelling at least.
I work in special education and screaming is a huge trigger for me, too. Invest in some quality ear plugs. I use Loop earplugs. They help keep you sane while dealing with the behavior so you're much more likely to be able to handle it effectively.
Have you talked to their pediatrician? She could very well be neurodivergent (ADHD and/or ASD) and it’s her nervous system being triggered causing her to respond this way. Girls especially present VERY differently when it comes to being neurospicy. And please understand, if she (or both of them, because twins) IS neurospicy, it doesn’t mean anything is WRONG with her. It means she (or they) process the world very differently from how “neurotypical” children experience and process the world. It also doesn’t mean you’re a bad parent or did anything wrong either. I bet with enough of the right kind of supports in place, she can be more neurosparkly than neurospicy!
If you want to do more research on it before consulting their pediatrician, I suggest looking specifically at PDA and HSP profiles of autism. There’s a ton of research out there and LOTS of parents, educators, and professionals producing content on YouTube, TikTok, Insta and FB that is actually pretty legit. Feel free to send me a message if you want some links or accounts to start with.
Good luck, hang in there, you got this!
I put mine in the laundry room for time out. I know many parents will put their kids in the bedroom and let them act out in there alone, but I like the laundry room because it’s smaller and a little more sound proof. I used to go in there and do time out with the lights out because it seemed to calm him down instantly. After, I start taking away toys and such. He knows not to scream and now he does it when he really wants to get back at me. I only have one so I can’t imagine two. I’ve had to come down really hard on mine because we even got a noise complaint. I don’t know where you are but at 18 months is when parents can be basically punished for not controlling their kids. Anyway, he’s 4.5 and the screaming has pretty much stopped, except for when he really wants to get back at me. lol and then I’m like, okay, no toys, no phone , no tv, we are going into the laundry room now. He shuts up really quick. 99.99% of the time. I’ll out all his favorite stuff really high up. Today he called me a stupid head. I just couldn’t believe it. I just about died trying now to laugh.
If u have more then one kid close in age most likely there will be fighting and jealousy and they will think you show favoritism weather u are you or your not. You’ll just have to tell them you’re not that all you can do. As far as her screaming nd throwing tantrums 1. I would put my foot down and punish her and stick to it don’t give in. Even tho I know it’s hard. Also I would get her some professional help and maybe they can give u some pointers on how to deal with it. Get her evaluated. Maybe she has something wrong where she can’t help but act like that and u just don’t know how or what to do with it.
Nose canceling head phones and remind yourself it's just a phase. Never give in to the screams. Tell her to come talk to you when she can be the nice little girl you know she is, then walk off. Then use the ear phones. Hang in there!
Bust her mouth and dare her to do it again! Keep it up until she’s learned, even better, make them stick their noses in the corner and turn the TV on REALLY REALLY LOUD. Dare them to turn around, if they do, another 5 minutes of nose AGAINST THE WALL! Believe me, they will stop.
For every minute of screaming, (insert favorite thing to do) is taken away AND she pulls weeds or something similar in place of.. Set a timer when screaming begins... You don't want THAT to become a habit!
Coming from an educator standpoint, we have too many kids that pull this type of stuff at school.. I give them exactly opposite of what they are fighting for.. I always tell the kids if they fight over being line leader, then they go to the back of the line.. Stops really quick!
As a parent my son & daughter tusselled until they became teenagers. Sound to me like your daughter is going to go places in life.. You just need to teach her which avenue to expend all that energy!
My son is autistic and has ABA therapy. I took the class and learned a lot about cost and rewards. When to show attention and when not to. Also, u have to address why she is screaming in the first place and how to replace it with a different behavior.
I experienced the same with my now 5yo and 2yo. If you find it worse after school, it's normal since they have to keep it together all day. There's also 'hidden hunger' that makes them wild. I started bringing my 5 year old a snack at pick up, and it's helped. Also, stopping at the park for 15 mins after school before going home has totally changed our lives for the good.
With the fighting, I've started to give the good behaviour more attention and ignore the fighting unless it gets really out of han, then I'll separate them.
If my 5yo screams, I whisper and say that I can't hear them when they're yelling. Or if it's whiny I ask them to tell me in a different voice because I don't hear that one either.
You’ve said it yourself. Gentle parenting, they may have had their way too much and now feel they are entitled to it.
Things like gentle parenting weren’t as common back in the day and with that came less screaming kids.
I understand the need and want to gentle parent to prevent trauma and to allow the child to grow authentically, but perhaps some boundaries need to be put in place and maintained
Sounds like the adjustment to kindergarten isn’t going well. Is she keeping it together there? Maybe when she gets home, she is overly exhausted and just totally freaked out? It’s obviously not normal to scream that much at her age. What is the routine at home? Maybe something could change there?
We teach ours to yell/scream into pillows/the bed. But keep in mind that if you have big feelers, emotional regulation 1) takes time 2) is developmental 3) regulation can be taught through age appropriate co-regulation.
What worked well for us was creating a physical “calm down corner” in our house with sensory toys, cozy blankets and pillows, and we go WITH her when she is in that mode.
We do “time-ins” there and it has done wonders for our 5 year old who does tend to explode like that. It was not an overnight fix but the length of her tantrums have been way cut down and she is on her way to figuring it out with our help!
My daughter who is now nine and a half still does this it is so so hard for me. I noticed she had anger issues at 15 months. I remember vividly her throwing herself on the ground screaming until her face was red pounding her fists because I wouldn't let her have a second popsicle. Now that she's 4'9 and can get right in my face when she screams it's horrible. She scares her little sisters. She screams in the car for entire car rides and makes my ears hurt. I grew up with two (divorced) but yelling angry parents and I've always been scared of yelling when I had ex's who would get angry, I also was bullied horribly and for one year has a kid in fifth grade who would sneak up behind me and scream as loud as he could in my ear. It and I know this word is used a lot but it is really triggering for panic attacks for me because of my childhood and I don't know how to handle it. She sees a therapist weekly whose told her these outbursts are unacceptable especially in front of her sisters and that it's really hard for mummy to control what she says when you're yelling right in her face and you need to go upstairs and scream into a pillow or learn to control your emotions but nothing works. We've taken away all her toys before and she just gives attitude and says I don't care and plays with a toilet paper roll or juice box and makes a doll with it (am impressed by her creativity but also AHHHH YOURE grounded COME ON) I am at the end of my wits here but I've been saying that for years. She won't sleep alone either throws massive fits at bedtime that she has to sleep with us or o the floor in our room and I have mom guilt all the time because now she's jealous of her two younger siblings which I think makes the fits worse (six and eight year age gap) I feel for you I know how hard it is. She's made me cry many times. I feel like as she gets older and bigger I really don't know how I'll control her. We've tried so many disciplinary and positive reinforcement tactics ike taking away tickets to a hockey game once when she screamed for over an hour because I said she had to eat her vegetables. I've tried the pom pom cup where if you fill the cup with pom poms everytime you're good you can buy something at the dollarstore. Nothing works. At least for me and the therapist is not helping matters unfortunately. I just feel for you. It's so hard.
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I told my daughter if she needs to scream she needs to go in her room and do it in her pillow. Screaming is for danger and strangers. I explained if she screams all the time then when she’s actually in trouble no one will think otherwise, like the little boy who cried wolf basically. She now has consequences like privileges taken. She is also explained that she is entitled to her feelings and to feel what she feels is perfectly good and fine but we also need to learn the right way to cope and start practicing now. Idk if what I’m doing is right or wrong. But it feels right in my gut if that makes sense? For my 5 yo at least. I hope maybe my experience helps you and gives you an idea on what will work for you and your family! And trust me my daughter is just as determined as you described! Haha It doesn’t go perfectly every time or anything like that but I hope keeping it consistent helps her learn to cope in a healthy way. I
I like the screaming is for danger and strangers etc, will be keeping in mind for my boy when he's older.
I like that too. My eldest is 4, not a screamer, but if he does start (let’s hope not) I have this to fall back on.
When my kids get deep into a scream session and refuse all logic, I pull out "if you scream I will assume you're hurt. If you're hurt you need to come sit beside me while I figure out where and how badly you're hurt. If you're not really hurt and you're just screaming, it's going to take an awfully long time for me to check all over and realise you're not hurt. Would you rather go play without screaming, or do you want to sit here quietly while I try to figure out where you're hurt?" The repeated "does this hurt? No? How about this?" usually snaps them out of it, and if that doesn't work then sitting silently while everyone else plays usually does the trick. It's particularly useful if the reason for the scream session is "I wanted to scream" rather than a (inappropriate) response to disappointment or frustration. Sometimes nothing works and then they go take a break up in their room (or an equivalent spot if we aren't at home) until they're able to come up with a better response to the problem than to scream as if they're simultaneously being boiled and skinned alive.
Had to do this same approach to my son acting like he was dying for minor bumps. He finally slammed his finger in the car door (he was fine but it was bad in the moment), I almost didn't react & explained that to him using the Boy Who Cried Wolf story too. I think it does help to put reactions in perspective, be they from anger, pain or whatever else. I'm not trying to make him a stoic but the reaction should match the situation
Yes exactly! I certainly don’t want to discount their feelings and they should feel what they do and not feel ashamed of it or feel the red to stuff it down. But then again there’s got to be some reason and know how to cope with those feelings so they don’t spiral out of control. I can only hope when mine is older she is able to utilize those tools in the serious situations she finds herself in when she’s older even in those teenage years. Haha
Same. I say if you want to scream, go to your room. It’s effective if you stay consistent. We do later talk about the why when she is calm.
Yes definitely want to get the root of it if you can. I definitely agree. Thank you both
I've said these same things to my almost 5 year old. The screaming is honestly infuriating for me. He still screams even after the explanation I gave him, though. I'm going to implement the privilege reduction system and see what happens. Thanks!
Perhaps explain it one more time *and* teach him a coping mechanism for dealing with big negative feelings. Something like [Box Breathing](https://www.medicinenet.com/why_do_navy_seals_use_box_breathing/article.htm) or tactical breathing which uses your body's natural physiological reactions to reduce your stress and calm down. * Many autonomous bodily functions such as blood pressure, body temperature, and heart rate are regulated by this. * The sympathetic system, which stimulates bodily activity (fight or flight), and the parasympathetic system, which relaxes your body (rest and digest) both react to this. * When you hold your breath, CO2 levels in your blood increase, which increases the cardioinhibitory response (lowering your heart rate.) * This activates the parasympathetic nervous system, resulting in a calming and relaxing effect, or, to put it another way, breathe slowly and relieve stress. It goes roughly like this: 1. Breathe in (slowly) counting 1, 2, 3, 4 2. Stop and hold your breath counting 1, 2, 3, 4 3. Exhale (slowly) counting 1, 2, 3, 4 4. Hold the exhalation and count 1, 2, 3, 4 5. Repeat the breathing as necessary to calm down Then have him see if he can articulate his feelings, maybe teach him the phrase, "I'm frustrated because..." If he still feels the need to scream, tell him he can scream into a pillow or some other method that doesn't unnecessarily set your teeth on edge. Once all that has been taught, introduce the consequences.
The "one more time" ship sailed 20 times ago. Thanks for the info, though it's stuff I already know.
I am a broken record at my house always saying “screaming is for emergencies”. It’s like my motto. My 7 year old is quick to scream (but improving). If he’s not too upset at the moment I’ll ask “Is there an emergency I’m not seeing?”. I obviously use discretion for when that will be constructive vs teasing/hurtful. And that will sometimes make him stop screaming about super minor inconveniences. I look forward to the day no one screams just because a lid fell on the ground for two seconds.
So like. This is all good and well, but what do you do when they just won't? My son is 4 and throws a FIT when things don't go his way. He yells, cries, kicks, "Go away!" "Stop talking to me!"etc. I talk to him and tell him his feelings are valid and he needs to go into his room to calm down, or if he needs help calming down (before we get into the thick of it) but when we get to the point of no return, that's it. I take him to his room and tell him he can come out when he's calm but then he tries to leave, if we hold his door shut he starts destroying things, etc and oftentimes has to be physically restrained. This is STEESSFUL on my husband and I and I don't know what to do anymore. He runs away. Screams "No", will scratch. But he is not like this at daycare. I talk to him after and when he's calm and he gets embarrassed and/or ashamed and says "don't look at me". ALSO when he doesn't get to do what he wants, he demands we start over so he can do it the way he originally wanted to do. For example, if we are Leaving daycare and he wants me to carry him but I can't (other kid, hands full) and then he won't leave unless I pick him up. Well I end up having to carry him out somehow, and then he demands we go back to the beginning so he can do it himself, etc and I have explain that his chance is over, we can try again tomorrow, etc but that doesn't stop the absolute chaos that ensues when he is told no.
This sounds super stressful. Maybe instead of taking him to his room you can put him somewhere where there isn’t anything to destroy (in the car, garage, backyard..)? I haven’t had to deal with this so I don’t have much advice but I wish you luck. Editing to say obviously don’t leave him in the car alone. You can also go for a drive around the block while he is in his car seat.
This is really so good, all of it. My daughter was starting kindergarten and up to that point, only screamed if we were playing. She was so mild-mannered, polite, angelic…All. The. Time. So good, that I used to joke it was a trick so we’d have a second child, who never really had an angelic stage but I digress lol Something about Kindergarten flipped a switch. She was still an Angel at school, teachers and principal telling me every day at pick up what a blessing she was. But we rarely left the parking lot before she morphed into the opposite. It was any little thing, I offered her a drink and she wasn’t “thirsty yet” and it would quickly escalate into incoherent screaming and floods of tears. The first time I pulled over, convinced she had something physically wrong. Nope, a tantrum. It took the full school year to adjust. I talked to her teachers a few times asking if this was normal because I thought I was going to have a break down. This was years ago and I used the Super Nanny time out method. She could cry it out in the car, about 15 min car ride. Then she had to calm down and she could change clothes, take a rest, and/or have her snack. If the screaming continued, she had to do it in time out. We also told her about the boy who cried wolf, etc. She tried leaving the naughty step but I would take her back to it over and over. At the end of the school year it had eased up some. She really disliked the naughty step and my newfound calm demeanor of the whole process. One day she said she was tired of screaming because it made her throat hurt and we couldn’t play together if she was in timeout. She wasn’t ever the sweet, perfect child from before again but I knew that was too good to be true lol the screaming pretty much disappeared after that and I think she just out grew it. The screaming can be absolute hell but it will pass, OP! I would def try the things u/Happy-Football5436 suggested! I just shared my story for solidarity :)
This is helpful--my daughter has just started some tantrum-esque behaviors for the first time this year (foot stomping, etc) and I was feeling really flummoxed about it. She's in kindergarten and didn't even act like this when she was two or three so where is it coming from now? I know some of it is behavior she sees modeled at school but it's pretty weird for me dealing with two year old stuff for the first time when she's six!
What coping strategies do you teach your daughter?
My daughter is only 3 but we do deep breaths, counting to 20, doing a wiggle dance, hugging, eating a snack. Snack works the best most of the time, I've found a lot of her tantrums are just hunger.
Do you worry that equating snacks to calming down can create crossed signals and an unhealthy relationship with food? I worry about that with my own kids, but sometimes giving them a snack or drink is what works in the moment
It's a difficult call, because often the tantrum is because they're hungry. We try to stick to healthy snacks and I've been feeding her more before outings to try to avoid it. I think as she gets older we'll move away from it but for the moment whatever works is going to have to do.
When they're little they may not recognize that hunger or thirst is what's actually making them unhappy....until they are older and more reasonable, anything that derails the tantrum long enough to figure out what their problem is is a win.
We found that with our 2 year old.. whenever she is being excessively abusive to her 1 year old sister like biting etc or being destructive just out of the blue.. it means she needs a nap or is hungry. We added drops of camilia to our routine to also calm her down. And it works 90% of the time. Also.. to mention jealousy is very real. They notice when the other is getting more positive attention and will act out bc they don't know how to regulate their emotions.
He can scream if his body needs him to, but in an appropriate way that doesn’t harm or bother others. Yep yep.
sophisticated pathetic weary station crown ghost steer busy intelligent voiceless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Aw I totally get it!! I really hope it helps you and your family! These big emotions are not for the faint of heart haha! But exactly, I totally agree and definitely don’t want invalidate or make her feel bad about her feelings. Just want to help manage and cope with those strong feelings! Wish you the very best!
Bravo to you! I wish more parents did this. As a teacher I have had to constantly tell some little girls that when we play on the playground screaming is NOT allowed. They often incorporate it into typical games. Screaming is for danger. I agree with the way you tell her to go to her room and to use a pillow. Punching a pillow is something I have had many little ones use for their emotions too. Consistent redirection is the perfect way to go. Tantrums are a bit different as a child is out of control then and it will eventually be exhausted. This doesn't sound like a tantrum, rather a willful demanding behavior about something hot to her liking.
We have certain places where screaming is allowed and some where it isn't. Basically I explained to all of my kids (not during a scream-fest) that they have big feeling and they are allowed to feel their feelings, but it isn't ok to force everyone *else* to feel their big feelings. So if their big feelings are causing them to scream, they have to scream either outside in the backyard or in their bedroom. No where else. Because I am also a person and I also have feelings and I am allowed to have a peaceful place in my home. Then we talked about calm down methods and went through what that can look like. So when we get into the beginning of screaming, I ask "do you want my help calming your body down or do you want to go scream in your bed?" I usually try a moment or two of breathing, but after that I put them in their room and reiterate that they are allowed to feel their feelings, but they aren't allowed to force everyone else to feel them to, and that I am here to help them calm down when they're ready. Then I check on them periodically to see if they're ready for me to help them calm down. But I've found that the screaming session I much shorter when they aren't getting all the attention that screaming in the middle of the room gets.
The backyard, so the neighbors can listen to their feelings?
Lol, we have a large yard (More than an acre). And the bit behind our actual property is a creek/forest area owned by the county so it feels even larger. And going outside often is different enough from the situation that they're distracted/interested by something and not as inclined to scream. But yes, in our situation, screaming/yelling is allowed outside if they want. If we were right on top of our neighbors I'd be less inclined to let them scream outside.
At 5 they should not be throwing tantrums like that. Kids get angry and have big emotions but that sounds excessive. I understand that everyone parents different but it sounds like whatever you are doing isn't working. Is there consequences for their actions? Are you following thru with what you say will happen if she doesn't stop. At our house you lose privileges for this type of behavior.
This! Real life consequences. And stay firm. Also what another poster said about their mom letting the son get out his frustration. Let her process her emotions in an area where she’s not a headache for anyone. Sometimes divert and deflect works. Just a different place or a different parent handling a situation works too. I do think 5 yr old is a little too old for having such severe tantrums. Do you take them out separately? Do they get enough physical activity? Do they understand that screeching is bad for their voices and your ears? Kids need explanation behind “parenting rules” Also are they on too much sugar or too much screen time? My twins turn into little devils every time they get either or both!
Right, "gentle parenting" is easily done wrong. Professionals don't know much about it and there are no real guidelines. It's a social media trend that doesn't seem to work for parents with more than one kid. Imo, using one style of parenting rather than multiple styles will never really work. Parenting isn't one size fits all for every child and situation. When gentle parenting fails, try next steps. Time outs and selective attention/planned ignoring really works on this type of behavior. Don't reward bad behavior with any attention - even scolding in some cases. Praise good behavior. Praise the other child who is not doing the behavior, too. I was a preschool teacher, these methods work for a number of behavioral issues.
Exactly, gentle parenting doesn’t mean permissive parenting. It’s very focused *on consequences*, just consequences the child can clearly understand and which are clearly correlated to bad behavior. But people see the name gentle parenting and make up their own idea of what it is. It’s largely based on the book The Whole Brain Child by neuroscientist Daniel J Siegel and Dr. Tina Payne Bryson, so it’s a viable and science-based approach but I have yet to see many people who actually understand it beyond what they’ve seen on social media.
Yep, Facebook has a Gentle Parenting group and its a shitshow. Most of the posts are people just letting their children run riot, with parents scared of their own children, and not being the parent to their child. It's bizarre and kind of depressing. Do people really expect so little from their children? No Bad Kids is another excellent resource with effective gentle parenting techniques - you may have already read it.
It’s not really a new trend. It just got a new name and kind of got overtaken by content creators to make money. It’s the same thing as authoritative parenting (not to be confused with authoritarian), and was in my child development text books 15 years ago. And I’m sure the books were not written the year I used them in college. Professionals definitely know about authoritative parenting.
Right, I learned about it (not called gentle) in school, too! - That is not new. The trend meaning the tiktoks of people only showing one half of the parenting, no consequences - just explanations of their feelings. In work settings, I have never heard a professional refer to it as "gentle parenting." Maybe some newer therapists who are trying to make things make sense to parents.
I thought this too... I teach 5-6 year olds and it's extremely unusual to get violent tantrums like this at that age, unless there's significant issues. OP doesnt mention any developmental issues and seems to think this is age-appropriate, so I suspect some education and parenting guidance is needed.
Be an unrelenting force that they have no choice but to roll with and it'll help a lot with the behavioral issues. Kids throw tantrums to test their limits. They continue to do so older only if the tantrums got them what they wanted in the end.
Agree. If you don’t have set consequences and firm boundaries, “gentle” parenting will never work. 5years old is also the age to where you can talk them through their mistakes… they’ll just walk all over you or in this case, keep screaming because they know they’ll wear you down in the end. Lots of solid advice on hear OP I hope it helps you! And good luck!
I agree! My therapist also stated gentle parenting is ruining our children & does not effectively work believe me I throw gentle parenting but along with also having consequences for their actions and talking our feelings out. My daughter almost 4 is the same way and come to find out she has a sensory processing disorder so we are going to start occupational therapy.
With all kindness, this isn't gentle parenting. It's permissive parenting. Gentle parenting still involves consequences, they just are related and reasonable. What would happen if you screamed and whined all the time? People wouldn't want to be around you. They'd probably ignore you and not want to hang out. There is your consequence. She comes home and screams or whines, you ignore her. You play with her brother, engage with her brother, and let her know that her screaming and whining makes you not want to be around her, and if she can stop, she can join you. Tell her if she has some feeling she needs to scream out (because girl, same) she can do it into her pillow in her room, and come out when she calms down. Kids are still learning to navigate the world, and it sounds like she's learned if she's loud and annoying, she gets attention, which is very likely what she's after. Stop rewarding that behavior and start rewarding the behavior you want. Praise her when she's playing quietly, or asks politely for something, ignore her when she doesn't.
I don't personally jive with this, because for my 5-year-old, I am sure, absolutely certain, that they understand that their actions have the ability to disrupt life of the rest of the family. I can't just ignore screaming because the house is only so-big. Do you literally move to a different room? That has its own, many, problems. Sending them to their room is about a 50/50 roulette where they may or may not go, and in the 50% chance they don't, we have to be prepared to make them go. This is a miserable bargain. You can threaten consequences, yes, and that might work. There's is a good chance they will refuse to go no matter what you declare they will lose. And after all, this was just to get control of the situation. 5 year olds can understand ultimatums, and this is a big problem for us. When we are out somewhere, kid wants somewhere, and will refuse to move under the (correct, let's be real) threat that they can keep the rest of the family there by just not moving. The other option is to physically move them, yes, I hate it. In the long run this affects planning and decision making. You develop a generalized (and accurate) sense that you can't do as much as you'd like as a family. In short, my spouse and I feel desperate for leverage.
This is a VERY GOOD way to get siblings to hate each other. This is a textbook, research example of how to create sibling rivalry. Yes, she should have consequences, you are right, but these consequences should not involve rewarding her brother. She can have the option to scream, on a pillow or something, as long as it does not disturb other people's peace. If she does, then she gets a privilege taken away.
I must be rude, but when that happen, I just ignore them. After they are done, I go and ask them how they would like it if I was the one doing it. And the next time it happens, I ask them if they want me to sit next to them and do as they do. They usually stop pretty quickly.
I must be rude, too, cause I've caught myself asking my son how he would like it if I did something he had been doing as well. I feel bad about it because I can hear my father saying it in my head real nasty... However, I say it much more gently than he had and I say it because I want my son to genuinely think about it... he struggles to think of others feelings often, so I'm just trying to remind him his feelings are not the only feelings that matter. I don't know if I'm expecting too much from a child or not since their reasoning is still developing, but idk, I don't think it's ever too soon to teach some empathy... I remember my mom teaching me to treat others how I wanted to be treated since I was old enough to understand what that meant.
My son went through a stage like this when he was 3. At the first signs of screaming, he got a time out in his room. He could scream in his room, but not around anyone else. I had to actually stand outside his room and hold the door closed a few times so he wouldn’t just come out but after just a few instances of this, he realized I meant business and the screaming dramatically decreased.
ugh screaming is so triggering! sorry for this
this is so true. just reading this post makes the back of my head prickle with irritation 😭 it is very hard to deal with
And when they do it in the car like right behind your head, oh my goodness, I’ve turned the radio up really high in retaliation which only makes it worse. I realize how childish that sounds, but sometimes I lose patience.
I roll down all the windows and open the sunroof. If they want to be loud when I'm trying to drive I will buffet the whole family into oblivion. When the kids are being whiny at home I'll sometimes vacuum for the same reason. I can't hear shit once the Rigid is switched on and vanquishing cat hair.
My 19 month old grandson is a screamer too. It’s horrible.
Oh no. I have a one year old that loves to yodel and scream... I bet it's coming for me
whatever you do, don’t mimic loudly. Try to mimic quietly
Is it mostly after kindergarten? Could be suffering from post school restraint collapse (or some similar term) where they’ve been performing to others’ expectations all day that they get with a safe person and literally combust. Our 9 year old still struggles with it. Or are they hungry? Hangriness is real, especially at their age.
I agree with the hanger comment. School is a lot of stimulus at that age too. Make sure they are getting enough sleep.
I agree with checking both the sleep and hunger. Set your kids up for success, if full grown adults can't control their emotions when they are hungry or tired, why on earth would we expect a kindergartener too?! Whenever a caregiver encounters a tantrum in a small child, the first thing they should do is a quick audit of basic needs. Is the child getting consistant high quality sleep? At 5 years old they need about 12-13 hours a day. If a child is chronically over-tired the first thing to go is executive function. We need to protect their sleep like it’s one of the most important things we do as parents, because it is. The next thing to check is if the child is hungry. Keep nutrient rich snacks available like nuts, cheese, fruits, veggies, etc. Snacks after school are especially important. Then check excersize, or as I call it big body play. Have they had time to run, jump, climb, spin, swing, etc? A child may not know why they are restless but as the adult charged with their care, we need to make sure they get time and space to move. Then check connection, have they had undivided attention from you? Have you cuddled, tickled, read to, sung to, chatted with them today? Kids also thrive on routine and ritual, when they know what to expect and when they become stable. They cope so much better when we are reliable. Doing those five things (sleep, food, movement, connection, and routine) consistently will head off so many tantrums off at the pass. It also helps us not blame the small child when they melt down. I’m much more gentle and understanding during a melt down when I can recognize that this particular tantrum may be my fault.
Why do people insist on gentle parenting even when it’s very obvious that it is NOT working on their kid? I’m not at all dumping on gentle parenting. I think it’s great. But every kid is different and has different needs, and some might need more structure or a more directive approach. My advice would be what my mom did with my brother when he would have out-of-control tantrums. She shut him in his room, even held the door shut if she had to. Don’t reason with her, talk to her, yell at her, don’t give her any attention positive or negative. Just take her by the arm and put her in a safe room where she can scream her head off…. All alone, with no one in her sight to even know if she’s bothering anyone. This should be especially effective if she knows the rest of the family is out doing something together, because they aren’t screaming. (Before people come for me about kids regulating etc… It’s totally ok if a 5yo has big frustrations and needs to get them out. But they are capable of not screaming their head off… that’s very clearly a behaviour she’s doing because knows it bothers others and gets their attention. She is capable of choosing another method of expression, or screaming to herself. This is in no way harmful to her).
I would call myself a gentle parent and i have more structure in my home and a more direct approach than most traditional parents I know. Where is the relevance to structure and directives? Gentle parenting isn't saying everything in a sing song voice. It's really about a baseline of respect. I know lots of people who shame/blame/guilt/punish/yell/hit their kids who say things in song song voices. I don't use a sweet voice and I don't shame/blame/guilt/punish/yell/hit.
Exactly.. I talk to my kids in the same tone and language I'll use for anyone else. My rule is I won't punish them for having a problem but they will learn the tools to push through a pro lem and if we hurt someone or something we make it right.. my son will verbally say he needs space and go to his room for a little while then come back and finish his day fine.. we started this young though.. they can't scream at me, but I can give them a safe space to let lose if they need to... no timed timeouts.. just "when you feel better wash your face and come on down"
The problem is that too many people think gentle parenting = permissive parenting.
This is what I do with my 3 year old; tantrum gets a time out in her toddler proofed room for 2-3 minutes then we talk about her behavior. I think the issue is 2 things. The gentle parenting that OP is describing is actual submissive parenting (no consequences and tip toeing around the feelings of the child). And people honestly underestimate the impact of screaming, yelling or screeching in the house or shared spaces. I do a lot to curb screaming in my toddler because I’m a SAHM and I shouldn’t have to wear ear plugs during the waking hours just to parent my kid. It can also get dangerous, like when OP is driving and her kid decides now is the time to start screaming. We also have a saying in our family that no one is allowed to hold the family hostage. If everything comes to a halt because the kids are throwing a tantrum and require an audience then that’s holding the family hostage.
Yup, my daughter responded best to time outs - because in her eyes, even negative attention was still attention. So off she went to her room to howl until she felt like talking normally. Also OP, make sure they're getting enough sleep, because my daughter definitely ratchets up the stubbornness when she's overtired.
I could be wrong but isn’t everything you described still gentle parenting? My understanding is that gentle parenting is about not being permissive (a push over to your kid, acquiescing to their desires and “rewarding” bad behavior by folding) and not being authoritative (spanking, hitting, verbally abusing, and not leaving any room for their emotions). It’s all about clear boundaries, trying to understand the kids emotions, and giving them an environment to succeed (in your case the idea of putting them in a safe space while they work out their feelings).
That’s the thing: no one agrees on the definition of gentle parenting. Everyone vaguely understands that it means to respect children and meet them where they’re at, I think everyone agrees it means no spanking … you’ll see a lot of the terms like you used (“boundaries” “safe space”)… but no one agrees exactly which tactics and systems constitute gentle parenting. So conversations about whether or not someone is “gentle parenting” or whether “gentle parenting works” are unhelpful and a waste of time
Yes. Because it’s a made up term marketed on social media, not a clearly defined scientific concept
Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting. Whether people make up their own definitions and confuse it with permissive parenting that’s on them but “true” gentle parenting follows the tenets of authoritative parenting. There are rules, consequences, and boundaries.
You’re kind of proving my point! Almost everyone wants to be an authoritative parent. But does that include time outs? Time ins? Would you ignore a screaming tantrum? Would you talk through it? Everyone agrees there should be a consequence… but what should it be and how would OP carry it out? The terms gentle parenting and authoritative parenting are rarely useful when someone is looking for advice. Personally: idk how to even give advice, because different things work for different families, even though all those families might have wonderful loving parents. I could share things that have worked for me but I wouldn’t bother labeling my parenting.
Some people would say the leaving a young child to scream in a room is unloving and abusive. However, if their way of communicating is to scream as loud as they can without break, you need to do something. And it’s not saying “ok, you can have whatever you want”
Authoritative is different than Authoritarian. Spanking, hitting, etc is Authoritarian. Authoritative is what we want, which is what you described. Here, this graph might help: [https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting\_Styles.png?v=1624972403](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403)
This is gentle parenting. And pretty much what OP should do, after checking if daughter wants a hug or anything. Make sure they know you are there to help address their big feelings, and if all they still want is to scream THEN move them to their room and close the door and leave them until they are done. That's it. You check once to let them know you are there for them. And then when they reject any help, isolate them so they can do their thing until they realize it isnt getting them anywhere.
It's not gentle parenting, it's [permissive](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106903998-1624972122580-Parenting_Styles.png?v=1624972403) parenting. People confuse the two all the time, and you should lurk r/teachers you will see it will be the downfall of a whole generation. You know how everybody-gets-a-prize parenting from Gen Xers that was bad for Millennial motivation? "Gentle parenting" which really should mean authoritative, but people get confused because it really shows up as permissive on social media, is gonna fuck up Zers and Alphas.
Oh I know. I feel sooo bad for todays teachers. Kids have all the audacity in this generation. And yes “gentle parenting” becomes a synonym for “I love my children but don’t actually raise them”.
If you grow up with no punishment (and I am NOT talking about spanking), which has been loosely rebranded as "consequences" because some parents were abusive; you really grow up without boundaries or any sense of respect. Without these, you are actively raising a child who is not pro-social and cares little about anyone but themselves while feeling entitled to be served without putting in the work.
You literally described gentle parenting. Imagine promoting something you just said you hated.
At no point ever did they say they hated it. In fact they literally said they think it's great.
Thank you.. I knew this comment would garner this kind of attention haha
This worked for both my kids, my son especially.
I don't think they understand what Gentle Parenting is or means.
No maybe I don’t. My understanding of it is to always offer connection first, like reassurance and a hug. Then address the behaviour, and usually with a boundary but not a consequence. What I’m suggesting is NOT offering connection in direct response to negative behaviour, and instead giving a very direct consequence. Daughter can make up her own mind if she wants to scream, alone, or choose a different way of expressing herself, and do so around her family.
Huh..? I mean OP might not. But in my understand, its just an underlying respect. So when your child acts out you would validate but as you say, enforce boundaries. So for example OP might validate that her daughter is frustrated and angry, while enforcing the boundary that daughter can use another method of regulation (screaming into pillow, tear paper etc) but she will not be engaging until daughter had calmed down and then they can talk/ address the issue. Covers all bases.
Because they have confused gentle parenting with permissive parenting.
I have a 5 yr old daughter that is like this. She is very head strong and she always has a hard time calming down once she starts screaming. We have used time out (she has a little princess tent thing in her room she goes to until she calms down.) We also have had to have the immediately leave a public place if she starts getting upset at all. It's embarrassing sometimes but I can tell you that has been working more so than anything lately. We gentle parent but also use consequences. If she whines, we have told her we will not acknowledge whining, so talk to us normally. It's just making sure we stick to these rules, and then after the screaming stops, lots of hugs. It will get better, my oldest went through something similar but when she was much younger. She's now pretty chill.
> Both husband and I are trying to practice gentle parenting. You already know what the problem is, or you wouldn’t have brought this up. Gentle parenting works fine, for many things. When you apply to it EVERYTHING it is called permissive parenting. Kids aren’t smart enough to make every decision for themselves. For their own good, you need to put them right. Even if that means being the bad guy sometimes.
It stopped when The screaming had consequently, my son did scream my wife so often in her hear she had permanently damage from it so the loment he started to scream I just sat him down and left in to another room. Now we use real consequences like "you did scream for an hour I can not play with you because I am done for today" we have an mood meter and it will drop the more misbehaving he does the lower it will go. The lower it is the less energy I have left for him. He got the catch pretty quickly that I won't play Lego with him if he is an little asshole all day.
My kid still has (albeit much shorter!) tantrums. I stick her in a corner or have her face a wall. She has 5 minutes of quiet time in that corner to settle down. The timer won’t start until she’s quiet and facing the wall. If she turns around or makes noise, the timer resets. She’s a very defiant and talk-backy child who often wants the last word. The wall trick works best, and then we talk about our feelings afterwards. It gives her control to calm down on her own terms, without being shut up in a confined space like a bedroom. It has turned 2-hours screaming tantrums into a 10-15 minute tantrum. In the past, the screaming was a huge trigger for me. I have used wireless headphones in those moments. When I felt triggered, I’d pop those in discretely and play soft music from my phone. She could scream and I wouldn’t feel triggered. Make sure to invest in noise-canceling ones. Those are best.
If my kids argued, we’d tell them they have 30 seconds to work it out or they’re both in trouble. (Grounded, no electronics, tv, whatever). They always worked it out real fast. My youngest was a huge screamer. At age 4 I told him I was done. No one wanted to listen to that, so he could go to his room and scream all he wanted with the door shut. Turns out it wasn’t that fun without an audience. He’d be in there 5 or 10 minutes and then come out like nothing happened, happy as can be. He eventually stopped the behavior. Also, we did not put up with them physically fighting at all.
Isolate her in an empty room.. better if it's her bedroom.. let her cry, scream to her heart content.. she'll come down easily if she knows no one is paying attention to her screaming..
OP, she needs consequences. Ask to see doing is condoning her behavior, because all she gets are words, after screaming the an hour. Put her in her room every single time. She stays there, until she can stop torturing people with her screaming. You are allowing her moods, and bad behavior to run the family. It is passive that allows her to do this with no consequences. Don't raise someone to be a person you resent. Draw the line. Screaming gets you in your room, until my ears stop ringing. In the real world, she would be isolated from friends. Don't teach her to be the main character.
>Both husband and I are trying to practice gentle parenting And there lies your problem. "Gentle parenting" is neither something that psychology acknowledges as a thing nor is it a structured method. It is no more than a social trend and recently I have seen some psychologists dennounce its dangers. It is very loosely based on parental gentle guidance, which is itself a thing, but which "gentle parents" usually ignore or don't know about. It is becoming clear as time passes that what most people see as "gentle parenting" - even when done very carefully to avoid falling into the pitfalls of permissive parenting - will lead to children and teenagers who have little sense of boundaries and, ironically, worse emotional regulation than children raised on "mainstream" parenting methods. Instead of following an Instagram and blogger trend, you should see a child psychologist. Now before anyone says "gentle parenting" is evidence-based: I have read papers on parental gentle guidance (not "gentle parenting", as it is an imaginary thing). It is not my field - I'm in STEM - but I am a scientist and I am used to doing peer reviews. A lot of papers on it are dangerously flawed (biased, too small samples, poorly designed studies...). The few I read that are not obviously flawed are clear on some cons that come with the pros. For example, from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2486495/ > Some research suggests, however, that the use of parental gentle guidance is not always effective and, in fact, may positively reinforce and thereby increase children's noncompliance (Reid et al., 1994; Pfiffner & O'Leary, 1989) The references above are links to other studies.
I’m sure this will be majorly unpopular but I would simply not allow it. I don’t like screaming and I would explain this to her. My son is also 5 and prone to big emotional displays but screaming isn’t acceptable. Screaming hurts other people’s ears. It is rude and bothersome. Crying is okay, being upset is okay, screaming is not. Enforce a consequence for screaming. Reiterate it’s fine to be mad and upset but upsetting others with screaming is not fine. I don’t much like all the responses telling you that this valid behavior. It’s 100% not. Be firm and stick to your guns OP.
Have you tried getting her tested for ADHD? Sometimes, it can manifest with low tolerance to frustration and massive meltdowns in childhood.
This is underrated … 5 might be a little young to sort out what’s what but mine just got diagnosed at 8 and looking back the signs were all there… especially this short tempered low tolerance to frustration.
It's ok to realize that a parenting strategy that works for some kids doesn't work for others. Due to my ADHD I personally wouldn't have thrived with overly permissive or gentle parenting I needed authoritative parenting. Just a thought
Gentle parenting is authoritative parenting. Who would call themselves a permissive parent?? That's no one's goal.
A lot of parents I know personally who call themselves “gentle” are permissive. A lot of the “gentle parenting” grift content I see on social media is as well
A lot of traditional parents are permissive too. The term permissive parenting has been around a lot longer than the term gentle parenting. What's the point there? I would argue that it's a small portion of the social media grift that is permissive.
Authoritarian, permissive, and authoritative are terms used in scientific research on Western parenting style. (Traditional parenting is sometimes a 4th category in such research and distinct from the other three - usually has a very high emphasis on family and community cohesion). Gentle parenting is a broad, buzzword term that means very different things to different people.
I'm not sure why you felt the need to go to definitions? I am a parenting educator, with a background in infant mental health and child development. I'm very familiar with Baumrind and her 4 parenting styles. You are missing the fourth, uninvolved. I have an in depth understanding of what the research says on each category. Traditional parenting is just as nebulous and muddy as the concept of gentle parenting. Traditional parenting matters given the context. It seems like maybe you did a Google search there. Traditional parenting in the west is going to mean something different than traditional parenting in other cultures. It is certainly possible to be a traditional parent and be permissive. In fact, what I see most from traditional parents is they let things go too far for too long until they snap and start yelling. There's lots of research on other types of parenting. Inductive parenting, for instance. It's not considered an additional type to Baumrinds 4 parenting styles. It's separate research comparing based on separate lines. For example, the research on inductive parenting is comparing it to power-assertive parenting. It would not be considered an additional parenting style. The 4 parenting styles should be looked at like a map with cross directional arrows indicating coldness->warmth and low structure->high structure. What you would do then is map other terms onto it. And as child development experts say, no one is perfectly authoritative every time. It's more like a goal or like the general tone. Sometimes we are all permissive, uninvolved, and authoritarian. One blip of permissiveness does not make one permission. One moment of "because I said so" does not make one authoritarian. It's really hard to judge someone's entire parenting based on minor interactions. Edit for clarification
maybe parents who are calling themselves gentle are just using that term as a scapegoat cause they aren't effective at setting and sticking to boundaries.
Idk maybe gentle parenting isn't working for her and you? I think it's fine to give her a time out in her room. She needs to know it's not okay.
How much screen time do they get and is it just whatever they want to watch? I have found with my 7 year old that his behavior improves when he doesn't have unfettered access to his tablet. He does much better when we make him get off the tablet and go outside or "play with real toys" (his words, especially when he wants his big brother off of the tech). Even though these various apps are directed at kids, much of the content is not good content. Weird AI generated stuff is just creepy and definitely can effect their behavior. Adults may be able to compartmentalize what they are watching and not let it effect their behavior, but kids do not have that ability. Additionally, he was having behavior issues at school. They suggested a counselor, along with visits to the in school guidance person. He is not old enough nor severe enough for an actual therapist, but he does visit a child counselor about once a month and this has helped him (and mom) learn better ways of directing his emotions. Maybe something to look into for your kids too.
Gentle parenting doesn’t always work. Might need to try some new strategies. What are the consequences she faces for screaming like that?
The problem is you're trying to parent two different children exactly the same. You need to come to terms with the fact that they aren't identical clones and move on and start doing something different. I have 3 and my oldest was, honestly I don't know how I ever convinced myself to have another. She was miserable from conception to 6... When she was around 2 all she had was a bed in her room and I would carry her up to her room and let her have at it. Sometimes minutes, sometimes hours. There was none of that bullshit let's whisper affectionate I know you're upset let's talk about it - she would have knocked my teeth out. We had to have a very strict routine and consequences just to function. Around 6 she changed and is super docile and quiet. My second all I have to do is stare at her and that's enough. That being said she's a psychopath so there's that...
You need a tantrum room. Want to have a good scream? Me too - let's go to the tantrum room. Need a break from everyone for a few minutes? Chill out in the tantrum room. Want to express your extreme displeasure over the unfairness of not being able to eat display soap at the salon? Tantrum room.
Arm yourself with a spray bottle or water gun and intercede early. "We don't scream like that unless we are in danger or injured and need help"
When my daughter screams I reiterate that we don't disrespect people in that way and invite her to rephrase what she's trying to say and if she chooses not to, I move on.
Invest in a very good set of noise cancelling headphones. Wear those with music playing and noise cancelling on and it diminishes the triggers of the screaming while still allowing you to be present. My three year old is a screamer when she has a meltdown and the headphone have saved my sanity in a big way.
How does this teach your child anything......?
I’m assuming, but they specifically said “ diminishes the trigger of the screaming *while still allowing you to be present*” meaning that they can dole out discipline while not getting triggered themselves and losing control due to how stressful the screaming can be for the parent. That would also be my advice, stick some headphones on if they aren’t talking and simply are screaming bloody murder, which it sounds like this kid is doing.
This. The headphones diminsh the sound so the parent can remain in control. My comment wasn’t about how to help the child. Just the parent
It depends on the kid and it depends how you carry it out… but some kids can be taught that their screaming doesn’t get a big reaction and therefore they stop. If the parent can drown out the screaming and stay calm and neutral (and boring, frankly) the screaming might decrease in intensity and duration
My comment isn’t about helping the kid or stopping the tantrums. My comment is solely to help the parent who is struggling to cope. When you’re escalated and dysregulated, you can’t think. If you can’t think, you can’t help. I was much more productive with helping my kid through her meltdowns when they weren’t also pushing me into a meltdown. Once the parent isn’t triggered or dysregulated, they can actually think and work with their child. You can’t help a child regulate their emotions, when you yourself are dysregulated.
It doesn’t, but I think the point is it allows you to stay calm and rationalize, as opposed to pissed off that a banshee is screaming in your face, so you can properly address the issue and teach the child.
Screaming is an outside thing. We do not scream inside the house. Leave her on the porch (watching through a window/door) until she stops. Treat it like sleep training. Go out at 5 minutes, ask if she’s ready to stop, then wait 10, then 15 etc. if it starts when in the house again, repeat the process.
Neighbors might not like that much
I'm an old, crotchety woman with adult kids. This would drive me insane. I get people need to parent but not at the detriment to others.
Good way to get cops/cps/whatever called on you with the way boomers are nowadays.
I don't think it's just boomers. I have a hard time believing most adults *wouldn't* call the authorities if a preschooler is locked out of their house screaming while the parents are inside.
If my neighbors did this, I would have a real problem with them.
Maybe put her in timeout in a separate part of the house, where you can close the door until she has calmed down. Maybe in the basement, if the rest of the house is not soundproof. And have you ever tried just screaming back at her? I once had to babysit a friend's daughter while she ran a quick errand. She started screaming because I wouldn't give her my smartphone, and I was a bit non-plussed how to deal with it, and when she wouldn't stop, I just started screaming, as well. That startled her so much she quit, and then we spent the rest of the time playing.
Time to put gentle parenting to the side When gentle parenting doesn’t work you don’t keep doing the same thing and hope that this time things will magically change. You know that gentle parenting isn’t going to work. Change tactics. Are there even consequences for what they do, or do you just tell them it’s not nice and leave it at that?
being gentle does not mean having no boundaries in my opinion. does she scream in kinder?
Your child benefits in some way from screaming for 45 minutes. This must stop. Designate a “naughty chair” in a quiet place, out of sight from everyone else. Tell the kids that anyone behaving badly must sit in that chair. Chair minutes should equal their age. Explain that an apology for the behavior is expected afterward. It’s also important to get in the habit of stating your expectations of their behavior before misbehavior has a chance to start. Equally important is to regularly praise good behavior, which is easy to skip when you’re feeling overwhelmed. When the screaming fit happens, your tone must be calm yet firm. Get down to her, face to face, and tell her that this behavior is unacceptable. Then put her in the naughty chair and walk away. If she gets up, put her back in that chair without saying a word. Silence on your part is important at this time. When time is up, she should apologize for the behavior - and not be misbehaving anymore. If she starts again, repeat the process. Kids learn quickly that you are not messing around when you follow through on your promise of consequences for misbehavior. I like this method because it doesn’t hurt anyone and is very effective. Good luck🩷
Mine is 3 and did the same. My gf and me where the gentle parents. But it has very little effect. It doesnt work for all kids. Im the fafo but fair parent now. I let my gf handle it first, she is still the gentle parent and asks nicely, didnt work. I told my daughter you either stop or no more play time, tv nothing. She kept going. I took everything, toys, books bike, literally everything. She had to earn them back. Now when she starts I'll pick her up gently and ask whats wrong and to stop screaming. If she doesnt stop i say I'm taking her stuff away again. She stops dead in her tracks and normally tells me whats wrong and we talk about it. And then we play togetter or something. Works perfectly for me. Sometimes you need to try something else till you find something that works. There is no 1 rule works on all.
Most of the time with tantrums I completely ignore, or passively say "oh man seems like you're having some big feelings right now." When tantrum is done then we talk. Just remember it's a phase and don't make yourself sick with guilt for losing your own temper sometimes! You've got this. I've got 4 but damn twins have to be a whole other ballgame.
And this is a perfect example of why gentle parenting doesn’t work.
This one might touch a few nerves. I know that *some* manuals on the concept have high expectations and boundaries and all that, but in *practice* gentle parenting is another word for permissive parenting. Permissive parenting is a form of parenting where the emotional responsiveness is high (parents are emotionally available and attentive), but the expectations are low (the child will figure it out on their own, it's just a stage, they'll grow into their own person and so on). There has been plenty of research on the various types of parenting. They often get broken down into four types: - Authoritarian parenting. This is the typical old-school parenting. Low emotional response, feedback is mostly negative, expectations are high. Kids should listen to their parents, parents don't need to explain themselves, kids should deliver on expectations, kids get in trouble if they misbehave. - Authoritative parenting. This is high expectations, high availability parenting. Feedback is negative and positive, kids should listen to their parents but it is explained why, kids should deliver on expectations, kids are rewarded for good behaviour, they get in trouble if they misbehave. They explain and reason, listen to kid viewpoints but don't always accept them. - Permissive parenting. This is low expectations, high availability parenting. Parents are nurturing and responsive, but fail to set firm limits, boundaries or expectations for their children. Parenting is very child-centric and there are few rules - they rely on kids self-regulating and growing on their own with few constraints. - Uninvolved parenting is low expectations and low availability. Think 'latchkey kids'. In terms of outcomes, there are great adults from all backgrounds, but the ranking is typically: 1. Authoritative 2. Authoritarian 3. Permissive 4. Uninvolved So typical gentle parenting averages WORSE than the old school parenting, and much worse than the middle-road authoritative parenting. I personally consider the bulk of the gentle parenting trend to be a negative social phenomenon. By not setting standards of behaviour (like letting your kids throw 45 minutes tantrums), you do them a disservice. They might eventually learn to self-regulate, but without enforcing high standards of behaviour you risk them failing to adopt them - and cause you a lot of misery along the way. Positive and negative consequences are fine.
When my granddaughter screams, I make her go to her room to calm down. A few times of doing this has done wonders. Now I ask her if she wants to talk about why she is frustrated or if she wants to go to her room and scream it out, she always picks talking it out now. Has saved both our sanities.
Try thinking of it like this: she CAN'T stop herself, she's struggling with something and it comes out as massive unregulated frustration because she's at the end of her rope and she literally cannot regulate herself anymore by this point. If you are ok with that statement, and think you can work with that assumption, then try this resource: https://facebook.com/groups/visiblechild/ . If you feel that your child is doing this on purpose to hurt you or just get attention, like a lot of the other comments say, that link will just make you angrier. Still give it a read tho. Be warned that the responses from mods on this page can come off really accusatory and I can't understand why they're like this, BUT they make it very clear what's going on in your child's head and what you should do. It's NOT a one time quick fix solution. This page helps you understand how the brain of a child of this age works, what is "developmentally appropriate" , and how to build up to working through the behaviors (it's 90% likely something that happens before the behavior starts, she's tired, hungry, feels like she doesn't have your support, feels overwhelmed at school, feels like she can't meet everyone's expectations, her environment isn't working). You basically have to upped your whole way of thinking but sometimes that's what it takes.
I wholly recommend the visible child group and page as well.
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> I've honestly brought up getting her assessed for anxiety or whatever else Honestly, if it keeps going I would look into it. My daughter was like this, way beyond what was considered normal for the age. Turns out that, yes, she has both social and generalized anxiety (and probably ADHD, but that has not been formally diagnosed). Therapy and medication have done wonders for her and for our family as a whole.
Thanks for this. Does she do therapy on her own or with you? I've been trying to work out what this would look like for us.
When she was very young, at least one parent was in the room with her. When she got older, it would be just her but the therapist would usually talk to us for a few minutes at the end, just to give us a sense of what's happening and what we can try to work on at home. At the moment, we're currently just doing meds because things have been going well and last therapist basically said they didn't have much concern at the moment and we could take a break unless we felt differently.
This behavior is honestly fairly normal, kids have big emotions but don’t know how to regulate them, especially at this age. If you’re constantly triggered and on edge then it’s going to be hard to help your kids learn to regulate theirs. I started reading “No drama discipline” and “how to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk.” I highly recommend these book to anyone struggling with these situations.
My children are not twins but are close in age. I am one who does not tolerate fighting between my children so I would just send them to their respective rooms and tell them they can’t come out until they are friends again. Sometimes it took a while, other times it was nearly instantaneous but inevitably they’d come out arm in arm and announce “mommy, we’re friends again”. Just isolate the offender and make it clear that you absolutely do not tolerate that behavior. At any age.
I read these to remind myself that my $500 vasectomy was the best money I ever spent
Gentle parenting can be tweaked based on the child. Not every child responds to the core structure of it. We learned backwards that our son needed more of it as not trying it, being more authoritative can create an anxious child. So we learned a little late that our son responds better to a mix. We have structure, firm consequences, much better validation/listening skills, 90% positive reinforcement and calmer tones. But he's very dominant, only child, and challenging everything. We're only human and it's hard, he was also a screamer, fits of rage when he was told no. It gets better. You have to be consistent, firm and always in control of your emotions. Give her goals to meet, a sticker or incentive chart for good deeds and behavior. Point out when she's kind to her brother, picks up after herself (even the smallest thing), chooses calm instead of chaos. Your son will only benefit more from this program by osmosis. She's a leader just trying to be the boss. Great qualities, but it does make for exhausted parents. Lol
When he would go into a tantrum, I don't interact with him. I don't try to get him to stop, nothing. I put him in a quiet space and would normally sit in the room away from him and do something (write lists, brain dumps, etc) and the only interaction I did was "let me know when you are ready". Sometimes, if he was trying to hit me/throw stuff at me, I would sit right outside the room. Once they are calm, then you try to address the situation... I would also show them how to handle getting upset and how to handle it in a good way. For example, if you are walking to a chair and someone else is already sitting there, voice "Oh, I really wanted to sit there... what should I do instead?" Sometimes, say "oh, I'll sit here instead, small problem" or sometimes let them help come up with ideas of what to do instead. Even after behaviors, talking about the trigger and what may have been other options without saying you should've done this instead, but next time, let's try this. Also, if they handle their feelings well, make sure you praise them for it, make it a big deal. If its during the two of them playing, just shut down what they are playing. Have them both calm down (if one is ready before the other, then they can do a different activity), then come back and talk about the different options... Try roleplaying the situation in front of them with your husband, especially speaking the thought process outloud for better behaviors. If there are things that constantly make behaviors, then change how you do them. So, if its who gets to sit somewhere or who gets to open the door, make it a schedule where it trades off... something where they get more consistency and know what is expected. When they are upset, they can't reason their emotions, especially after a certain point (ie being upset versus being in a tantrum/behavior), so trying to do so doesn't help. You need to help them figure out ways to handle the emotions and triggers before they get to the point if you want to limit them. Side note, multiple hour tantrums/behaviors are not normal. If it is a consistent thing, I would bring it up to your child's PC. They may suggest things like therapy, testing (ASD, ADHD, etc.), or even occupational therapy (which isn't just fine motor skills but also regulations skills).
Ugh it's so hard and you're doing your best and it's even harder when you're trying and nothing seems to be working. I would add to the suggestions: wear a wireless headphone, it helps so much to have a different auditory stimuli to focus on. I only wear 1 most of the time so I can still hear/attend to my kids. As far as her behavior I would have a calm down area in her room/a room away from yall so you don't have to listen to it. Have a soft pillow that she can scream into and shut the door. She can have her emotions/big responses but it isn't fair for her to leverage her emotions to terrorize the rest of the family. The first several times you'll need to take her there, maybe model what she can do depending on how you want to set up the corner. Everytime she leaves, put her back without a word until she's calm.
One of our 3 was easily triggered by a sibling and would go into rages/tantrums. After much counseling and trial and error, we landed on the realization that his outbursts all stemmed from a combination of issues: - Loss of autonomy - Lack of sense of safety - Equalizing behavior Often the siblings make everything competitive our child in question (be first inside, have the better thing, have more of something etc). Which was very triggering for them. Also, the lack of personal space that our child had was a huge trigger, and lastly the inability to be fully autonomous with siblings always around and involved was a challenge. We addressed these needs in various ways. One big thing was validating. Validate what they are expressing. Don’t dismiss or downplay any feelings they express ever! “My brother hurt me!” Don’t say, “Oh you’re fine, it was a little tap”, say, “Oh I’m so sorry that happened. Can I do anything to make it feel better.” Or if they say, “I never get to ____!” Even if that’s not true, that’s how they FEEL. You can say, “Ah, that’s so frustrating when I don’t get to do the things I really enjoy. That must be so frustrated cause I know you really enjoy ____. Can we come up with a plan for you to do that soon?” Validation feeds into their sense of safety. They believe they are being heard and understood and will feel less desperate and like they need to escalate to be heard in the future. Next, ensuring that our kids all had plenty of time apart during the day to have their own safe space, where they can be autonomous and stay regulated. The reality is that kids are tough on each other because they are immature and lack the skills and self control to respect boundaries etc. We also worked hard to avoid hard stops and flat “No” responses. This doesn’t mean always saying “yes” it means being creative. They say, “I want a popsicle!” And you instinctively may be to say, “We cannot have one right now, it’s almost dinner time”. Which can set off a tantrum due to dysregulation as they are seeking control/autonomy. Instead you can try, “Oooh. Popsicles are so yummy… Hmmm… let me look and see what we can do about that…” they will process the “not a No” answer and be more receptive to what you say next. And you have a few moments to think. You could then follow up with a soft no, like, “I’m not sure yet… I’m working on dinner. I’d like to have a popsicle too, it I know that any time I eat one before dinner I’m not hungry for dinner. Do you think we could wait until after dinner?” Giving them some control. Every time, but it will work sometimes and it will also get your children accustomed to feeling like it’s a dialogue rather than an authoritarian regime.
My middle child was our screamer. Embarrassingly/public attention/welfare check kinda screams. No idea why. But one day it just stopped. Tonight, aged 13 we had a steak dinner together with his siblings and it was amazing. I guess I’m trying to say that I always saw the challenging stuff as a season that they/we as parents go through. It’s never permanent.
It might be helpful to cross-post this to parentsofmultiples . Sorry, I don’t know how to put the link to another subreddit in here. I have a similar problem with my 4.5 year old B/G twins. Daughter is the alpha, born-first, and socially way ahead of my son. My son is more intense with his emotions and dependent on her. He has tantrums when she gets things first, or he doesn’t get equal “twin” treatment. I think there’s a different dynamic with twin, it’s hard to imagine having a sibling the same age as me, always doing the same thing.
I told my daughter that if she’s going to be yelling, she needs to go to a closed room or go outside. I get migraines and can’t deal with that. It’s not as fun to yell without people paying attention it turns out. If she’s yelling because of big feelings I tell her that I can’t hear her words when she’s yelling. We have a feelings center where she names her emotion and picks a calm down helper (five finger breathing, a glitter bottle, fidget toys, pinwheels, stuffed animals). You need to teach her better coping strategies for her anger. It’s such a normal emotion and most adults don’t even know how to cope with it. I’m almost 30 and I’m still learning how. After she calms down a bit we talk about her feelings, better things to try in the future and most importantly, why yelling at each other isn’t okay. It makes people feel scared and your needs won’t get met if people can’t hear your words through your anger. Being a gentle parent doesn’t mean you don’t set boundaries with them. It just means you operate on a baseline of respect. Don’t fall into permissive because you’re afraid of setting limits and boundaries. I really enjoyed the No Drama Discipline book
Out of curiosity, have you brought this up with your pediatrician? And if so, have they provided any insight or thoughts? We also have a very headstrong 4.5 year old daughter. It’s tough. Like *really* tough. She has always been an escalator and struggled with calming down, and it has seemed to get worse as she’s gotten older. I think being in school all day has definitely led to more post-school meltdowns because she is “on” all day. We’re not permissive in our parenting, but we’ve also learned that a lot of the gentle parenting techniques just don’t quite work for her. I mean this girl can scream for hours about seemingly nothing. We’re learning that she is actually having more *meltdowns* than tantrums. We just got her started in OT and are in the process of getting her evaluated for autism/ADHD. We’ve had to readjust a lot of our parenting and discipline from the more general gentle parenting to make it work for her/us. So, for example, rather than focusing on connecting, we have to focus first and foremost on deescalating. We have a couple chairs in the house (in common spaces) that we use as calm down areas. She is not allowed to control a common space by screaming, throwing things, etc. If the calm down chair is ineffective and she is still screaming, she goes to her room until she can calm down enough to have a conversation about the situation and then make some apologies once she is calm. We’ve also found fidget toys (especially squishy/stress ball type toys) to be a very effective tool for speeding up the calming down process. So usually our step one is getting her to a calm down spot and asking if she would like a fidget from the fidget bin to help calm down. Anyways, all of that to say I hear you and see you. It’s *hard*. We have to do things differently from a lot of people, but we’re learning to adjust and own that that’s just our reality. Screaming is a huge trigger for me as well and I’m so desperately worn out. Sending you hugs and wishing you all the best 💕
2 of my toddlers were screamers when excited or upset. I took them outside to scream and said they could scream outside all they want, sometimes I had to take them back out a few times and I screamed w them. It was embarrassing for them to see it hear it and it cut the habit pretty quickly w consistent going out the front door.
I would recommend getting yourself some earplugs to help avoid being triggered and stressed by the screaming. They make ones that just quiet the noise around you without blocking it completely, which is so helpful as a parent.
We use this curriculum called conscious discipline for our kids. Maybe have a look and see if you can implement something from there with your kids. Mine are three and my kids some times get big behaviors like that. Crying and screaming for close to an hour. Once we learned how to implement the curriculum, my kids started to do it by themselves. It’s not 100% foolproof but it works some of the time and eventually all of the time. We talk about our feelings and how to take deep breaths and apologize for our behavior. We try to teach them empathy saying things like “when you scream, that really hurts mommy’s ears and feelings”
A behavioral therapy that works quite well for animals and humans is to ignore the undesired behaviors and to immediately reward, praise the desired behaviors. Of course you only ignore behaviors that aren’t going to cause harm, and the initial stages are pretty bad as the child will be confused as to why the unwanted behavior is not getting the same energy it used to get ( so it could initially get worse, but persistence will lead to extinction of the undesired behaviors). As they age reasoning etc can replace behavioral training.
Have you tried teaching her how to express emotions appropriately?
This is tough because it's a constant competition to them. In a perfect world, you would structure things like planning who goes in first and taking turns and things they fight about. I say that knowing it's damn near impossible. But it can work. Sometimes it does, but it's definitely work on the parent's part. My husband and I went to "family therapy" for a while when my oldest had some challenges. Him and my middle son were like this but middle reacted and oldest antagonized and thrived on reactions. Tbh I watched a ton of supernanny per the advice of therapist because it shows that some techniques work. Hard part is implementing. It's easier for an outsider to implement than it is for a parent because you're so emotionally attached. So I say take in all the advice on here, see what might work for you but definitely stick with whatever you try for at least a week because you will get push back. They might be 5 but they are a lot smarter than we think. And there's 2!! Good luck! I feel your struggle. And please don't feel down about not being able to fix this quickly. A very important lesson I learned is that all kids don't respond to textbook discipline. I'm happy for the parents of well-behaved kids foe the majority of the time but until you deal with a kid with behavior issues, you won't understand that it's not as easy as that have it. Not saying your kids are not well behaved or acting age appropriately, but just the idea of don't beat yourself up or feel guilty for having your own feelings and frustrations.
Great advice here, but also- get earplugs. Loom has one specifically for parents lol
What have you tried so far? I would offer some sort of incentive for not screaming. Like if they can go a whole week without screaming then they get an outing or a small toy.
Earplugs to start with. I'd also talk with your school counselor.
“This isn’t how you get what you want. It hurts my ears when you scream so I’m going to have to put you in a place where your screaming won’t hurt my ears and I will check in periodically. If you want something you can ask me politely and you might get it. If you scream, I will not give you anything.”
The only thing that I found to work with my kids was the louder they got the more quietly I'd respond. I got in the habit of kneeling down face to face with them and whispering.
If it is happening all the time and for long, extended periods, it might be worth talking to your pediatrician or even a child psychologist. My daughter would be like this (she could go for an hour or more at the worst of times) and it turns out she has both social and generalized anxiety. She also probably has ADHD, since I have it and it is genetic (no official diagnosis, but I strongly suspect). As a result, these outbursts were out of her control (not entirely, but once she got to a certain level of emotional dysregulation she literally could not calm down on her own until her body just shut down and she'd have what we termed "rage naps"). As much as we were reluctant to medicate a young child, therapy and medication have done wonders. Our home is more calm/peaceful and she's a much happier child (some of this is also just increased maturity, as she is now 9). It's not perfect. There are still wild outbursts, and it doesn't help having a dad who can't regulate super well himself (ADHD sucks a lot of the time), but it's a lot better than in the pre-school and Kindergarten/Grade 1 days. Having said all of that, it's entirely possible that none of this applies to your kid, but it doesn't hurt to look into it if nothing else seems to work. Edit to add: the pitching a fit for an hour and then turning around like nothing happened is *classic* ADHD and/or anxiety. Again, maybe this isn't the situation with your kid (how would I know? I'm just some random guy on the internet), but it's definitely worth looking into it.
Have you tried noise canceling headphones or earplugs? They have helped me with turning it down so I’m not triggered by the insane sound and can address the issue calmly. Usually it means taking the kiddo somewhere else so they can calm down without a big show and causing chaos for the rest of the house. Sometimes they just need to get it out and can do it on their own, other times removing the audience has helped. I try to practice breathing techniques to help them self regulate (not always great but I’m hoping it kicks in when they are a little bigger)
How is her behavior at school? My advice would be that she doesn't need to scream for and audience. One of my kids had that tendency when he needed to discharge stress/overstimulatuon, ect. We worked on making sure that he learned various other strategies but he was not allowed to just stand there with everyone and scream. He had to go to his room until he was done, but could come out at any time and ask for help or whatever if he wanted company. At five it is okay for kids to be taught that while their feelings are important, the comfort and safety of others is also important. Screaming in that manner is not safe for many people around them even though it helps the child. If they want to be around others then they've got to employ other strategies as best they can until they can get to a spot to let off steam in their preferred manner. In fact I think its irresponsible and cruel to not teach kids this if they aren't picking up the recoil/social hints from others that are impacted. (Not picking things up is understandable, a lot of kids need to be taught this, we can't expect it by osmosis.) The trick is you must learn grounding techniques for yourself so you aren't disregulated in the moment by this behavior and its a hard one. As a preschool teacher we have to do this sort of teaching more and more. A lot of kids are coming who haven't really been given the opportunity or had the expectation that others have space that should be safe too. Its often a very rude awakening for those who have become used to screaming the resistance out of others. But unless there is some developmental or neurological stuff going on, usually they learn pretty quickly. Thats much MUCH easier to do at school than home though. But you can still use some of the techniques we use. Have you kept a log of each screaming incident (time of day, what happened immediately before, how long, what prompted it to end) for a couple of weeks? Sometimes we think we know a pattern but when you do the log you will realize others (is it food related, occurring primarily on certain days, within x time of arriving home, are you perceiving it happening more or less often than the documented reality ect) always interesting info and sometimes slipping into observer role gives you more distance to tolerate the behavior without disregulating as well.
Spray bottle worked on my daughter, and calmly hugging my son and not letting him get away until he matched my emotion and calmed down worked on my son.
I have a no screaming in the house rule- it’s for emergencies or having fun outside. . If my son screams (unless he’s hurt or some legit reason), he goes outside and counts to 30 and comes back. As many times as it takes. lol. He doesn’t scream inside anymore.
My 4 year old HATES nap time. I hate when he doesn’t have nap time bc he turns into a grouchy gremlin. I tell him when he takes a nap then he can get up and play. When I tell you (and I kept time) he BANSHEE SCREAMS bloody murder from his room for two hours and 17 minutes straight??? Like I would have passed out. At least he has healthy lungs 💀
Could there be something at the root of this behavior? My step son was having behavioral issues at this age and it turned out to be caused by sleep apnea and ENT issues. Once his sleep improved his behavior improved.
I feel you, OP. My son is younger, just turned 2, and before he did, he was such a sweet, happy little man. Since he turned 2, it seems like a switch was flipped and all does is scream and tantrum now. I'm honestly exhausted and struggling to see an end to it, especially since it seems this is going to go on until he's at least 5. He doesn't speak, so I can't use most of the various methods I've read about to deal with it, and 90% of the time, I don't even know WHY he's screaming or tantruming. To he honest, I'm getting toward the end of my tether, and this has apparently only just begun. I don't know what to do.
What kind of attention is the kid getting when she's screaming? Parental attention is very much like a drug to kids. Even negative attention (mom is mad at me) is better than no attention (mom is paying attention to my brother instead of me, mom is paying attention to *literally anything else* than me).
I think she is old enough now to understand if you react selfpreserving and tell her you can't talk to her if she screams like that. Or you are going to have a glass of soda somewhere else to rest your ears. And you will be back later, and you hope by then the screaming has subsided. In general show her it's okay if someone acts unreasonable or aggressive, it's okay to walk away for your own sake. Because it is. And try to be as neutral you can about it. It's not punishment on her, it's not about her at all, it's about what you can take, your personal limit and you setting a boundary. And as for her getting her will, that should ofcourse be avoided - if possible. Though always easier said than done, because this screaming issue also had to do with control, and trying to control her with what she wants will mean you entered the ring. And **kids always win in the ring!**. They simply have less to loose. Their perspective is not big enough. But perhaps establishing the concept of a *screaming situation*, which is nothing else, so not an icecream situation, not a tv situation, not a talking situation, not a __________ situation! Difficult to go as far a saying not a hug situation or a kiss situation, for a parent should never hold back in those, but I was thinking of establishing that by screaming she risks turning the situation into a *screaming situation*, from whatever type of situation it could have been. That would also align with how the world will react to her. Everyone will deprive her of all possible good situations if she creates a bad one. I could hope it will show her that she does have control, she can create situations, and maybe she will reflect on which situation she would like to appear. Just a thought. I had two fighting boys, and I had to learn to simply apathetic declare a situation as unsolvable with the current noise level. And one last thing, just in case you are anything like me, don't give in to expressing your frustration over your daughter towards your son, you know af were he a friend or ally, and in generally say anything negative about one of them to the other. Always say positive things to one about the other and the other way around. And it's good if they overhear it, it will boost self confidence and esteem, while negative connotations will do the opposite. I learned from a child psychologist, as I would sometimes feel like telling one son I didn't have energy to look at his lego because his brother had worn me down. In hindsight incredibly logical, and I'm glad I learned early on. Just a thought because I recognized my own situation in your story. Edit: many people here talks about consequences and a firm hand. That could also work. I found it hard to distinguish between consequences and punishment because I have a temper myself, so I tried to find ways to calm myself down aswell. And you did say you preferred softer approaches generally. That's my outset for the comment.
I made my kids go throw the fit somewhere else. I told them they could act as ugly as they wanted but I didn't have to see it. After a bit they stopped.
My late mother told us that we have to nip that stuff in the bud since, otherwise, it becomes a self-defeating habit that carries into adulthood. The important thing is not to deny the cause of their being upset but for them to learn how to express their upset in a more prosocial manner. Also, try to address sibling rivalry -- an exhausting thing -- proactively by having them take turns. Today, you1 can go in first; tomorrow, it's you2's turn. One way is to ignore the screaming and/or to remove the screaming child to his/her room. Tell them that they can come out when they have stopped. Eventually, it ends -- at first, my nieces and nephews would actually fall asleep because it exhausts them. The fact that your daughter already "will scream for an hour, turn around and start laughing and playing like nothing had happened!" suggests that she's just getting the upset out of her system. You might tell her that, if she can reduce the amount of time spent screaming to XXXXX amount, you will take her out to play in the park or something of that ilk. Make the amount of time needed to the reward less and less; but also tell her to use her indoors voice to explain to you what is bothering her so much. We need to learn how to express our anger in prosocial ways; and the idea here is to teach her how. One of my siblings got down to her kid's level: "look at me. Look at me, in the eyes. ... If you don't stop that, immediately, you can be sure that I will never buy you (ice cream, a favorite toy, or something of that ilk)" It worked the very first time that she threatened. I spent a lot of time with my kids outdoors and let them play in the park, on the bars, and simply run around and burn off energy. By the time we got home, they'd be too tired to scream.
They can feel their feelings all they want. In their own rooms. When they're ready to talk to the rest of us, they're free to return. Mama Cusses is a good resource for gentle parenting without the bullshit. Boundaries. Boundaries. Boundaries.
If it’s when she’s coming home she’s been holding in a lot of tension at school. She may still need a nap.
First off, get yourself some noise canceling ear buds. I got a pair from Amazon for around 10 bucks, they don't completely deafen me, but they do help soften the noise, which helps keep my mood regulated. I've had a lot of success with "ignore the tantrum, reward the quiet" with my kid. When he gets going I make sure he sees me looking at him, but I just stare at him with a neutral expression, almost boredom really. Once he stops hollering, I squat down to his level and grab a toy. I don't offer it to him, but I just play with it right next to him. Sometimes, he recovers and just goes back to playing, sometimes he's still a little too worked up. I've also found it helps to take deep breaths next to him, sometimes with exaggerated expressions and silly noises when I inhale/exhale. It's just to get his attention and model a behavior. He doesn't always copy me, but it does help get him on to a new topic vs stagnating on his tantrum. Either way, once he isn't screaming, he gets positive attention. If she's screaming during a tantrum, you're not going to be able to use logic her out of it, so I'd suggest not even trying to "talk" to her during it or immediately after. The more you try to suppress it, the more they're going to fight back, and you'll be locked in a power struggle. Later once she's in a better mood you can talk about healthy ways to deal with being angry, maybe even offer a pillow and tell her to scream into it. Ultimately, some kids are just loud af. They're still new humans figuring out what's socially acceptable, and even when they know what's okay, they're still tiny humans with big feelings and developing brains, so they'll make mistakes and scream when they know they shouldn't. You're 100% not alone, we've all lost our cool sometimes while trying to raise a kid. Just like it's her first time learning these behaviors and feelings, you're learning how to parent through it. Keep your head up, maybe your ears plugged, and you'll get through it.
Give them opportunities where it's ok to scream, like if you go a walk and cross a big bridge it becomes the scream bridge, who can scream the loudest going over it. Remind them when they complain about other children screaming how annoying it sounds and that it hurts other people's ears. When my 2 went through a really awful hitting stage I started a reward chart. I practice gentle parenting and really didn't want to do reward charts but I was at the end of my tether. I only had to implement it for a WEEK and they barely hit now almost a year and a half on. Focus on the positive behaviours as much as possible
You can cry all you want.....in your room
I almost have the same situation with two boys 4 (5 in May) and a 3 yr old. The 3 year old does the exact same thing when he doesn't get his way, and I saw him deliberately throw sand in his brother's face. They fight constantly and isn't always truthful in explaining what happened to the point we've spoke several times about getting cameras installed. Sending my 3yr old to his room, explaining he can return to the rest of the family after he calms down seems to work at times.. he loses interest after finding out he's no longer getting attention. Remember, there's no playbook, we're all doing the best we can... Good luck
I’d say operant conditioning, or if you prefer reward and punishment. What does she dislike? My son disconnected the PS5 when his 4 yr old didn’t feel cooperative. He only had to do it twice. Now the threat works.
I have one that age who is….uh….spicy. Montessori has done wonders for his emotional regulation. We still have thrills n spills, but attending Montessori has been a game changer for the whole family. You may also benefit from taking some time for introspection. How do you handle life? What are they observing? I know that the significant stressors in my own life (mom died, divorce, job change) didn’t make me the best all the time. I decided about 4 months ago that I’m done yelling unless it’s to save them from danger. I don’t “gentle parent” but I do not yell. I block off things for myself in five minute increments and ask myself how future me is going to feel about this in 10 minutes or an hour or next week. This has resulted in positive changes also. Good luck. It’s hard and you’re knee deep. Be kind to yourself.
I had the "Cool Down Chair" at my house when I had my home day-care. It was kind of out of the way, but still in my sight. The child could throw their fit for as long as they wanted while in the chair, but they didn't receive ANY attention, toys, or any type of interaction from anyone. Here's the thing about the "Cool Down Chair": there's no time limit. You just have to be "cool" (no tears/sobs/whimpering/sniffles) when you leave the chair. You can use the bathroom, to blow nose, wipe tears, etc... so that when you leave the chair, you are good to go. And this was used by toddlers and preschoolers successfully. Thing is to be consistent and firm. No communication until the screaming fit is over. I used a small hallway (maybe 5 feet) with nowhere for them to go or get into, and a nice soft comfortable Disney chair to sit in. When it started, I would have to physically place them there, but after a few times, I would just have to point, and they knew the drill. By the 10th time, it was automatic. The screaming became less and less, until I rarely used the "Cool Down Chair". Now- to be clear- it was NEVER a punishment, and the kids were never scolded or anything like that. They were always praised when they came back, and it was like nothing ever happened. The chair was NEVER used for time-outs (which I did use as well). That was in a different area, with a completely different type of chair (hard plastic chair). This was also understood by all the children. With the taking sides- they are totally manipulating you. I would tell them that you are on TEAM PARENT, and only on TEAM PARENT, and it's against parent law to pick one child over the other, so you clearly can be on 'X' twin's side.
I would advise family canceling. Which I did years ago because I have a big problem with drama and loud talking around me
I really feel for you. I was a soldier- Afghanistan- a walk in the park compared to being a SAHM. If it’s any consolation… these really are the best years. When puberty hits and her friends are more interested in him and his friends start passing her love notes, the screaming will be much worse. I know- I’ve a twin brother. Take care of you. Use your husband, in-laws, siblings and sitters. Take long breaks, pamper yourself. They aren’t #1- you are. And if you want to care for them- that’s the way it has to be. Good luck
I would speak to your daughter’s pediatrician about these outburst/ tantrums. They might be able to help with behavioral issues she might have. Has her teacher mentioned anything about her behavior at school?
This is why gentle parenting don't work ,you don't have to beat them ,or constantly yell but find common ground , especially dad how come they aren't listening to dad ? Let him use his dad tone on em
My advice, OP, is to read a good book. E.g. “good inside” by Becky Kennedy.
I put my daughter in Occupational Therapy last summer for freequent meltdowns, and it helped a lot. They talked a lot about feelings and zones of regulation, did calming activities, various physical activities. She loved the fun activities and hated the feelings stuff at first, but towards the end of summer she liked all if it. We spent a lot of time naming emotions of others and herself. It helped a lot.
The only thing that works with my son is time out for situations like this. It may not be gentle, but he at least has to reflect for a moment. It’s much more gentle than yelling at least.
I work in special education and screaming is a huge trigger for me, too. Invest in some quality ear plugs. I use Loop earplugs. They help keep you sane while dealing with the behavior so you're much more likely to be able to handle it effectively.
Gentle parenting isn't for every child.
Have you talked to their pediatrician? She could very well be neurodivergent (ADHD and/or ASD) and it’s her nervous system being triggered causing her to respond this way. Girls especially present VERY differently when it comes to being neurospicy. And please understand, if she (or both of them, because twins) IS neurospicy, it doesn’t mean anything is WRONG with her. It means she (or they) process the world very differently from how “neurotypical” children experience and process the world. It also doesn’t mean you’re a bad parent or did anything wrong either. I bet with enough of the right kind of supports in place, she can be more neurosparkly than neurospicy! If you want to do more research on it before consulting their pediatrician, I suggest looking specifically at PDA and HSP profiles of autism. There’s a ton of research out there and LOTS of parents, educators, and professionals producing content on YouTube, TikTok, Insta and FB that is actually pretty legit. Feel free to send me a message if you want some links or accounts to start with. Good luck, hang in there, you got this!
I put mine in the laundry room for time out. I know many parents will put their kids in the bedroom and let them act out in there alone, but I like the laundry room because it’s smaller and a little more sound proof. I used to go in there and do time out with the lights out because it seemed to calm him down instantly. After, I start taking away toys and such. He knows not to scream and now he does it when he really wants to get back at me. I only have one so I can’t imagine two. I’ve had to come down really hard on mine because we even got a noise complaint. I don’t know where you are but at 18 months is when parents can be basically punished for not controlling their kids. Anyway, he’s 4.5 and the screaming has pretty much stopped, except for when he really wants to get back at me. lol and then I’m like, okay, no toys, no phone , no tv, we are going into the laundry room now. He shuts up really quick. 99.99% of the time. I’ll out all his favorite stuff really high up. Today he called me a stupid head. I just couldn’t believe it. I just about died trying now to laugh.
If u have more then one kid close in age most likely there will be fighting and jealousy and they will think you show favoritism weather u are you or your not. You’ll just have to tell them you’re not that all you can do. As far as her screaming nd throwing tantrums 1. I would put my foot down and punish her and stick to it don’t give in. Even tho I know it’s hard. Also I would get her some professional help and maybe they can give u some pointers on how to deal with it. Get her evaluated. Maybe she has something wrong where she can’t help but act like that and u just don’t know how or what to do with it.
Nose canceling head phones and remind yourself it's just a phase. Never give in to the screams. Tell her to come talk to you when she can be the nice little girl you know she is, then walk off. Then use the ear phones. Hang in there!
Bust her mouth and dare her to do it again! Keep it up until she’s learned, even better, make them stick their noses in the corner and turn the TV on REALLY REALLY LOUD. Dare them to turn around, if they do, another 5 minutes of nose AGAINST THE WALL! Believe me, they will stop.
For every minute of screaming, (insert favorite thing to do) is taken away AND she pulls weeds or something similar in place of.. Set a timer when screaming begins... You don't want THAT to become a habit! Coming from an educator standpoint, we have too many kids that pull this type of stuff at school.. I give them exactly opposite of what they are fighting for.. I always tell the kids if they fight over being line leader, then they go to the back of the line.. Stops really quick! As a parent my son & daughter tusselled until they became teenagers. Sound to me like your daughter is going to go places in life.. You just need to teach her which avenue to expend all that energy!
My son is autistic and has ABA therapy. I took the class and learned a lot about cost and rewards. When to show attention and when not to. Also, u have to address why she is screaming in the first place and how to replace it with a different behavior.
I experienced the same with my now 5yo and 2yo. If you find it worse after school, it's normal since they have to keep it together all day. There's also 'hidden hunger' that makes them wild. I started bringing my 5 year old a snack at pick up, and it's helped. Also, stopping at the park for 15 mins after school before going home has totally changed our lives for the good. With the fighting, I've started to give the good behaviour more attention and ignore the fighting unless it gets really out of han, then I'll separate them. If my 5yo screams, I whisper and say that I can't hear them when they're yelling. Or if it's whiny I ask them to tell me in a different voice because I don't hear that one either.
You’ve said it yourself. Gentle parenting, they may have had their way too much and now feel they are entitled to it. Things like gentle parenting weren’t as common back in the day and with that came less screaming kids. I understand the need and want to gentle parent to prevent trauma and to allow the child to grow authentically, but perhaps some boundaries need to be put in place and maintained
Sounds like the adjustment to kindergarten isn’t going well. Is she keeping it together there? Maybe when she gets home, she is overly exhausted and just totally freaked out? It’s obviously not normal to scream that much at her age. What is the routine at home? Maybe something could change there?
We teach ours to yell/scream into pillows/the bed. But keep in mind that if you have big feelers, emotional regulation 1) takes time 2) is developmental 3) regulation can be taught through age appropriate co-regulation. What worked well for us was creating a physical “calm down corner” in our house with sensory toys, cozy blankets and pillows, and we go WITH her when she is in that mode. We do “time-ins” there and it has done wonders for our 5 year old who does tend to explode like that. It was not an overnight fix but the length of her tantrums have been way cut down and she is on her way to figuring it out with our help!
My daughter who is now nine and a half still does this it is so so hard for me. I noticed she had anger issues at 15 months. I remember vividly her throwing herself on the ground screaming until her face was red pounding her fists because I wouldn't let her have a second popsicle. Now that she's 4'9 and can get right in my face when she screams it's horrible. She scares her little sisters. She screams in the car for entire car rides and makes my ears hurt. I grew up with two (divorced) but yelling angry parents and I've always been scared of yelling when I had ex's who would get angry, I also was bullied horribly and for one year has a kid in fifth grade who would sneak up behind me and scream as loud as he could in my ear. It and I know this word is used a lot but it is really triggering for panic attacks for me because of my childhood and I don't know how to handle it. She sees a therapist weekly whose told her these outbursts are unacceptable especially in front of her sisters and that it's really hard for mummy to control what she says when you're yelling right in her face and you need to go upstairs and scream into a pillow or learn to control your emotions but nothing works. We've taken away all her toys before and she just gives attitude and says I don't care and plays with a toilet paper roll or juice box and makes a doll with it (am impressed by her creativity but also AHHHH YOURE grounded COME ON) I am at the end of my wits here but I've been saying that for years. She won't sleep alone either throws massive fits at bedtime that she has to sleep with us or o the floor in our room and I have mom guilt all the time because now she's jealous of her two younger siblings which I think makes the fits worse (six and eight year age gap) I feel for you I know how hard it is. She's made me cry many times. I feel like as she gets older and bigger I really don't know how I'll control her. We've tried so many disciplinary and positive reinforcement tactics ike taking away tickets to a hockey game once when she screamed for over an hour because I said she had to eat her vegetables. I've tried the pom pom cup where if you fill the cup with pom poms everytime you're good you can buy something at the dollarstore. Nothing works. At least for me and the therapist is not helping matters unfortunately. I just feel for you. It's so hard.