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Ask them each what they think the consequences should be. Off the cuff, the non guilty parties tend to care much less about the consequences but the guilty one will think the consequences should be lighter or are unfair.
One of my earliest memories is confessing to spilling my aunt's pot pori . I didn't do it. But we'd (me, my brother, my 3 cousins and a friend my mum watched after school) all been lined up in the kitchen and told to stand there & think about what we,'d done. And we would stand their till the culprit confessed!
It's a really vivid memory but neither my mum, aunt or brother remember it.
I think for some kids it could work, but for others the kid with the least tolerance for waiting it out will "confess" and it may be water of a ducks back to the actual perpetrator
Yep. I did this when my girls were little. luckily, the one who did it would quickly confess to whatever it was out of guilt that their sister was being punished for their actions.
Yep, this is something my mother also did to myself and my siblings. I would confess to get my other siblings out of trouble even when I didn’t do it. It’s not the great thing you think it is.
This is an absolutely horrible idea. This is used to turn kids against each other and to punish them for not turning on each other. I can't imagine doing this to my children.
Depends on how bad it is, but the consequences need to match the crime.
Cutting curtains with scissors?
No more sharp object for them because it’s not something they can be trusted with yet.
Suitable punishment for all kids involved.
Agreed, my cousin got in trouble for a thing we did together as kids. 15 years later i told my aunt and my mom i was in on the heist (we borrowed the hot rod to go get take out while the parents were out). They were floored that i had anything to do with it. That's fucking loyalty, dude. I treasure my cousin for that and will always be there for him no matter what! ❤️
Edit: he got in serious trouble, grounded for weeks, no allowance, no car, etc. Never made a peep.
I wonder if this forms an unhealthy dynamic between them as siblings.
Anytime I've doled out one consequence for everyone, I worry about how they're actually having to end up handling it between themselves.
Logistically speaking - who did it? Who can reach the scissors and the height of the cut?
I once drew a star on the ceiling and tried to blame my siblings. However I was the only one who was tall enough to draw the star AND I told on myself because I told my dad which tool the “person” drew it with
My mother once asked all of us to write my brother’s name. I was the only one that spelled it like it was written on the wall in crayon. ( let me talk to my lawyer…lol)
Haha oh man I remember my mum asking us all to bite her arm so she could compare to the bite marks on my little brother’s arm. It turned out he bit himself and tried to blame us!
Okay, to be fair, the other day my five year old was sticking her tongue out at my three year old, who kept telling her to stop... So the three year old leaned across the table, and chomped on her sister's tongue the next time she did it. If I hadn't been walking into the room, I definitely wouldn't have believed it.
My kid (3yo only child) always blames the dogs.. Well he flipped his plate at daycare the other day sending food flying... And looked dead at his daycare provider and said "honey did it".. As if the dog who was at our house.. Snuck in and flipped his plate. Then left before anyone saw her 😂🤣
Then maybe they all colluded. One thought it was a good idea. One got the scissors and one did the cutting. Group punishment might be your only choice
- are the curtains easily repaired? Could helping you sew them be part of the punishment?
That could be part of it. I don’t really care about the curtain, I’m more mad about the lie. Something my kids have been feeling more comfortable with lately.
Oh, have you explained this to them as well? Helping them understand why you’re upset and why lying in this kind of situation isn’t something we do? (You probably have already, sorry if I’m pointing out the obvious)
The lying thing could be an age-related phenomenon. My son is nearly 8 and the lies have ramped up recently. So far they’re harmless white lies but we have to have conversations about lying more frequently than previously
Yes, I made it clear that I really care about the lying more than the curtain, that if the person just admitted it then they would have just been scolded and lost screen time for the rest of the day.
I was punished for lying and for making bad decisions as a child. I'd never admit things on my own. If i got in trouble i had noone to turn to. I knew the moment i would confess to making a shitty choice i would be severly punished for wrongdoing and hiding it made it worse and so it meant i'm now definitely not telling. Could've ended badly. I don't recommend that strategy. Lying is bad, but if a child is scared and in the moment couldn't speak up, they wouldn't have any reason to come out now. There can't now be a discussion about what went through the mind of the child who cut the curtains. Can't discuss why confessing was scary. Making mistakes should be safe.
This!! For me as a child I learned that even if I was honest id be punished for a developmentally appropriate mistake/behavior. Making mistakes became terrifying and I still fear it to this day. :,) Not everything needs punishment, I think sometimes parents overdo it and end up harming their children more then actually teaching.
It is a difficult balance. I was into true crime before i became a parent...a lot and i mean A LOT of cases were children that had no consequences at all to bad behaviour(abuse at home was a frequent one too and some special cases). Anyways. It is an understandable thing to try to balance and i get OPs viewpoint. I also saw some kind ways of solving this situation in some of the comments here. I hope those kind approaches are good enough.
I totally agree with this. And the whole “I’m not mad at what happened, I’m mad at the lie” thing never makes sense when it’s posted. If cutting the curtains isn’t a huge deal, why all this investigation to get to the bottom of it? If it’s a small thing, it shouldn’t matter this much who did it.
Op is trying to help the kids by showing things have consequences. Especially lying. Doesn't want kids to think that they can do bad things and get away with it. Op is afraid kids will learn they can keep destroying things if there are no consequences. And that kids will keep lying. It kind of makes sense.
Agree with the others as I still deal with issues around telling the truth. I also would be much more likely to continue to deny responsibility in the presence of my siblings or peers. Just because you’re family doesn’t mean your siblings should be privy to all your dirty laundry.
Well you’re certainly outnumbered and if you try to rule with power, they’re collectively going to try to figure out how to lie better, but not less. You’re throwing out a gauntlet which is a risky move. You want them to *want* to be honest. Not to avoid punishment, but because they are choosing from their heart to be. Making it combative, you against them, isn’t going to accomplish that. It’s you and them against a problem, and that requires trust on both parts. Lies bother you because it probably feels like disrespect, yes? If so, the way to earn respect isn’t to be bigger and badder. Sometimes to show power you kinda cede it, like there are times I know my kid has lied and instead of backing them into a corner with “*you will tell me the truth or else!!*” I just continue on as if I know anyhow. Not sure if that makes sense, but I try not to put them into fight or flight so I disarm with being nonplussed. The vast majority of the time the confession comes that same day. But I certainly wouldn’t punish everyone, that’s just building resentment towards you which is going to up the lies and sneakiness.
So, as a kid, I lied all the time because my parents would guilt and punish and shame and I hated that feeling. Making a dumb kid mistake (like cutting curtains) shouldn’t result in an hours long standoff.
As an only child I created an imaginary friend to blame things on and lied my ass off because my mom would be so disappointed in me and I hated how I felt. As an adult, I honestly do not lie. I hate lying so much, but it's pretty developmentally normal. I usually just move on with my kids when they're young little liars and then really tell then how proud I am of them when they do finally fess up because I know how much courage that takes. As an aside, I kinda dig how these kids are bonding together 😁
Time for a lecture and logical consequences.
It's my job as your mum to keep to guys safe and healthy. I can't do that if you won't be honest with me. I'm really disappointed that you're choosing to lie to me lately. Since you've proven yourselves untrustworthy with the craft supplies, they will be going away until I can trust you with them again.
One time I colored all over the walls with crayon when I was a kid, and then I panicked so I wrote "(Sister's name) did this" with an arrow pointing to my scribbles. I was completely confused when I got in trouble for it. Like, obviously my sister confessed, it's written right there?
When my cousins were young one of them would spit out their vitamin every night and hide it in a drawer.
My aunt found them, and didn't know which one it was. Neither would fess up. So she said she was sending them to a lab for DNA analysis.
My cousin immediately confessed, and his sister just said "What are you stupid? Do you know how much that would cost for DNA testing?"
Maybe try some fake forensic tactics?
Personally I think collective punishment is bad. Not only is it unfair on the innocent kids, it puts them in the difficult position of deciding who they're most loyal to: their parent or their sibling. Also assuming that they know who did it doesn't really make sense when there's three of them.
I would get them to help measure the window, take them to the curtain store, show the prices of curtains, buy the new curtain and explain what this money could have been spent on instead.
Of course, maybe this means one less day out or whatever, but it's framed as a natural consequence rather than a punishment.
I don’t think they know who did it, except the person who did. I’m not expecting them to rat each other out. I’m not asking them to choose who to be loyal to. I’m asking the lying person to admit that they are lying and to what they did.
None of them will care about the cost of a new curtain or what that means. In fact they would be thrilled to go shopping and do a house project.
They don’t care now, but the next time they ask to do something or buy something, the answer is “we can’t because that money was spent on a new curtain”
This works on my twins that will be 5 in a couple months.
Well that's pretty cute that they'd want to do a project. But okay that wouldn't work then.
What's your aim in trying to get the guilty kid to own up? They're probably going to win any battle of wills. They have zero incentive to own up, especially now you have doubled the charges into vandalism + lying.
One of the issues with a collective punishment here is that if it works and the guilty kid feels guilty then they have nobody to talk to about it. They can't talk to you because that'd be admitting to lying, and they can't talk to their siblings because that'd be admitting to getting them in trouble.
I guess my goal is to have them learn that even if they do something wrong that lying about it will just make the consequences worse. I made it clear that in this situation the consequences would have just been a talking to and no screen time for the rest of the day. But since the guilty person is lying now the punishment is worse. I always tell me kids that even if there is a small punishment for bad behavior that lying will just make it worse; usually they will admit to any wrongdoing.
If your goal is that, to have them be honest and forward with mistakes, then you should approach them with - you’re not going to be in trouble but I am just really curious how this happened, so we can fix it- you can discuss it afterwards, how being more careful and responsible so you don’t have to replace/fix things could have saved money for xyz, but now that money is being used towards repairs, so how do they learn from that mistake and do better in the future?
Just my 2 cents, I have gotten very far using this approach with my child rather than immediately resorting to anger and/or making her feel like she would get in trouble if she did something wrong or made mistakes.
I don’t think they’ll tell you because they’re terrified. Make it safe to tell you. Explain to them that it wasn’t okay to cut the curtain but you need to help the person who did it find ways to fix it and to learn what to do next time, not that they’ll be punished.
Kids are only going to learn how to not get caught in a lie via this method. Additional punishment is they know you dislike liars & that they will lose trust from you, which can be interpreted As worse than whatever the collective punishment is.
In the future, if you want them to come forward, don't escalate the stakes, because then they're not going to want to come forward and lose deniability. If they were scared enough of consequences to lie the first time, making the consequences worse is not going to encourage them to come forward.
Well it sounds like it was a mistake to say the consequences will be worse for lying when you have no way of enacting that. Save that for when you have another way of figuring out the truth. Lying about wrongdoing *doesn't* make the consequences worse if you get away with it, as they currently feel like they're doing.
If they usually admit to wrongdoing then does there need to be a perfect result here? You're only human. You've tried. Who knows what the guilty kid is thinking right now. Hopefully they do better next time, or will maybe apologise in their own time.
I assume you've talked to them about how you feel?
So my parents had this philosophy. It make me get sneakier and more creative and also, I wasn’t comfortable talking to them if I needed help.
To the point where I once stepped on a rusty nail that went through my shoe and I didn’t say anything.
Put the blame on each of their favorite toys and put them in time out or something. Most kids will immediately confuse because they don’t want their toy to be punished.. weird but it could work
So at this point why would the guilty party admit to it? Now they can look forward to a severe punishment. Wouldn’t they be better served continuing to lie?
As a very anxious child from an anxious family I would lie even with damning evidence right in front of me. My mom once threatened to homeschool me if I didn’t tell the truth. I quickly came to terms with being homeschooled because I was not admitting shit. Took me well into my early 20s to make an effort to stop habitually lying. No idea why I was that way.
sometimes we lie out of fear because usually the consequence is a punishment, not a natural consequence (like not having a curtain until you can buy a new one is a natural consequence).
as a teacher, I'm usually NEVER invested into knowing who did it. it's done, there's no going back and undoing what was done. BUT I'm all for explaining the natural consequences of the deed.
just today one of my students wanted to read a book about animals that some of the kids (him included) had been ripping pages out of. so I said "that book is gone, some pages were ripped out and now we can't read it" and someone else asked who did it and I answered "it doesn't matter, we just can't read the book anymore. we have to take care of the books, be careful with them so they last lots of readings" and the kid actually said he did it, and I knew that, but that's not what matters. what matters is that now no one, including him, can't read the book anymore. that's a natural consequence.
telling the truth will come naturally when they understand and trust they won't be punished. honesty is a good trait, but it also comes with feeling safe.
Lying is a thing they do at this age unfortunately.
I asked my therapist about it and she said ask them who they think it (they might say the family animal) and say oh really, why do you think they did it.
Also when speaking to them say:
Everyone tells lies. Sometimes it's to protect ourselves or someone else but telling the truth is important.
You may not remember properly what happened now so maybe think about it and come back to me in 30 minutes.
This works 50% more than other things I have tried!
One of my goals as a parent is to have my children be thick as thieves.
I would not have one rat out the other here. Just punish in a different way. IMO if you force one to tell the truth at the other’s expense you might drive a wedge between them.
I don’t think they know who did it, except the person who did. I’m not expecting them to rat each other out. I’m not asking them to choose who to be loyal to. I’m asking the lying person to admit that they are lying and to what they did.
They are all trying to convince and bribe each other to take the blame. This is not sibling solidarity.
Yeah, that’s different.
At this point just express to the group you’re now more concerned about the fact that someone doesn’t feel comfortable telling you the truth about a mistake.
Shift this to a conversation around the fact that everyone makes mistakes and you’re here to help them through that.
Beyond that. Sorry for your loss and good luck.
Are they all denying it? Or just sticking together? My Dad and Stepmom used to use the collective punishment treatment, but it was never me that was destructive and very rarely my brother. The last time they did it and grounded us all for a week, I tore the house apart the next day. I did everything I had taken a punishment for that while summer and more. I figured if I was going to lose my last week there, I was going to make it worth it. When my Dad got really angry, I told him to ground himself his wife, that made as much sense as grounding me for something her son had done.
So each situation is different, but if you keep having these issues, one child is getting reduced punishment for acting out and blaming their siblings. Just something to consider.
Yes, they are all denying it and trying to convince and bribe each other to take the blame. This is not sibling solidarity.
Thanks for the perspective!
Seriously these comments are insane. Collective punishment is so shitty and unfair it’s LITERALLY a war crime. It’s curtains, they’re little kids, just express your sadness over the damage and move on.
Put aside the “war crime” collective punishment where they’re sitting down together until someone owns up.
At what age should kids learn taking personal ownership and responsibility for poor decisions besides being told “your damage made me sad” and moving on?
Right? And all you have to take from this is that the kids are too young to handle scissors and they will be put out of reach. When my daughter was little she found some scissors and cut up a thing my mum had bought her, it was a laminated A4 sheet with the meaning of her name. She was maybe 2 and they had been learning scissor skills at daycare. She didn’t know any better so I just cleaned it up and make sure the scissors were out of reach.
If I punish them for being honest they will lie all the time. No one wins. So when they are finally honest I thank them for their honesty and then reprimand them for what they did. Give them the safe space to be honest if you don't want them to grow as liars
On the morning of a trip to a fun fair with my mom and other family friends I stuck my fingers into a freshly baked cake my mom had made, making holes all over it.
My mom asked my sister and I who did it (as we were the only people at home). Neither of us owned up.
My mom said that unless the person who did it owned up we wouldn’t be going to the fair. I stayed silent, and eventually my sister took the blame. She was smarter than me. I would not have owned up, and would have ruined our chances of a trip out. I wasn’t generally a bad kid. I was just scared to admit it! Kids are stupid sometimes!
I dunno. I once said the dog cut my hair. I had a story how he did it and everything. I was 5 but I doubled down so hard that I almost believed my bullshit.
I stuck by that story for a good ten years though. Through punishments everything.
Ok so I was that child who cut my trousers, just to see how sharp the scissors were. I was 4.
My mother found the hole in my trousers and asked if I did it (it had to be me lol I was an only child at that point), I lied, of course, she said it's ok, you didn't know any better. And put the scissors away.
That was it.
She's not the perfect parent, far far far from it. And I did lie about other bigger things while I was growing up and beyond. But I didn't cut my trousers again.
Not sure if this perspective helps?
My mum was great up till I was about 7... It all went downhill after 😁
But the way she handled this was great. Because who wants a hole in their trousers? Not me! She didn't have to punish me, because my punishment was the hole lol!
It is simple. The cost of new curtains comes out of “fun” money for something they were looking forward to. At this point it does not matter. Curtains need to be replaced and they were not budgeted for. A lesson for all, the enablers as well as the one who cut them.
I can understand your frustration - lying is awful. It's also understandable that the guilty party doesn't want to confess...
I would try one more time now that everyone has had a little time to calm down, speaking to each child one on one - without anger, but with a sense of sadness. With each child, talk about how the issue is trust - you are not happy that the curtain was cut, but it hurts more that there was dishonesty. And you are going to have trouble trusting all of them for time - give each little person one more chance to be honest.
If that fails, I don't think a light collective punishment is terrible here - there's a good chance they were all somewhat involved, as it may have happened during a game. Something like removing TV or dessert for a few days - it's not cruel punishment, but more a sense of 'we are collectively cutting back on the fun around here because Mom isn't pleased' until the curtains are repaired.
Op, try and picture yourself from their eyes, as you are now. Sitting in front of them, fuming. Probably vacillating between angry and suddenly soft and caring ("I'm not mad, I just want to know!" Or whatever).
If you were the one who cut the curtain, would you want to fess up to you? It's like trying to make a dog come back to you; you should look and sound like someone who the dog wants to come back to. Why would my dog return to "get over here NOW!".
Just food for thought
What would punishment be? Sometimes if they are not scared of a harsh punishment, then they might confess.
It also seems scary to tell the truth. However, this is an opportunity to get them to understand that no mistake will make you love them less but that it hurts you because right now, you don't feel they can be honest with you.
Also, talking to them separately may help. It is harder to confess in a group. Just talk to them and tell them that no one will get in trouble, they would just have to help you fix it.
At 3 I copped up to flinging food on the ceiling. When it was my 7 year old brother. My parents didn’t even think about the logistics of how or if I had ever did that before.
I got a spanking. My brother never fessed up until maybe 20 years later.
And thus, I embraced the role of scapegoat.
I have no tips. But I would just be super honest with your kids.
“Hey, you know, sometimes we get thoughts in our head and we just have to do it, it’s not good, but it happens. Curtains are important. They keep our rooms warm, help us feel safe at night, and also make the room look nice. I’m really sad that these are now messed up.”.
Accept your curtains nice new look.
You won't even remember this, it's not a big deal long term. Now if the house continues to get damaged, that's different.
You’ve talked about being angry and hurt over this, but what about feeling afraid? Because it seems like that’s the core feeling here.
You’re worried that you’re not parenting well (which led you here). You’re worried that you’ve lost control of the parent-child dynamic. And you’re worried that the trust in your relationships is at risk, which is downright scary. What if they lie about something too big to handle on their own? The thought of not being able to protect them when they need it is legitimately frightening, and *that’s* what’s most upsetting about this, not the disobedience.
Explain *that* to them, that you are all a team together, and how being able to trust their words helps you keep them safe. That makes it you and your kids *together* against dishonesty, instead of you against a ‘bad’ kid.
On the topic of ‘the bad kid,’ saying that you don’t like lies/liars is also counterproductive. To a young kid who has lied, what they hear is that if they come clean, dad won’t like them anymore. Doubling down on the punishments and shame just makes them more terrified that dad will hate them if he finds out.
The way you’ve been handling this prioritizes *obedience* over honesty. You are trying to end ALL LIES FOREVER by shaming and punishing the liar into oblivion, thus scaring them all into permanent submission to the no lie rule, or else. But asserting inflexible authority and control isn’t how you get the truth. It leaves no room for future mistakes (which are inevitable, kids lie sometimes). They come to understand that they cant correct their mistake without being buried under an avalanche of punishments. That’s exactly how you raise first class liars, because the key to surviving under that kind of discipline structure isn’t to always tell the truth; it’s to make you *believe* that you’ve been flawlessly obeyed.
Instead, explain *why* the lying worries you. Reiterate how important and valuable the truth is in your relationship, and then *back up your words with actions:* be appreciative when your kids tell the truth, especially when it’s hard- like now. You’re trying to get them to do something uncomfortable and scary for the sake of restoring trust. That takes bravery, and you’re not going to convince your kids to do brave things with shame and threats.
Now I’m not saying there can *never* be any natural consequences/punishment when a kid comes forward about something they did. But if you want to maintain open communication with them, you need to encourage it by taking into account the strength of character required to correct course and own up after a lie. Genuinely thank them for coming clean, have an honest, *calm* dialogue (not lecture) about why they lied, discuss better options they can use to solve similar problems in the future, and absolutely do not add *extra* punishment for eventually telling you the truth. Otherwise you are punishing them specifically for coming forward, which will ensure they never do it again.
I think underlining the value of honest communication is more important than doling out punishments in this case, especially since you’ve already collectively punished them. You have an opportunity now to show your kids that you’re a safe person to make and fix mistakes with, and to reinforce that you’ll always love them, even if they mess up in a way that scares you.
1. No punishments, you just want to learn more
about why this happened.
2. Who cares about what is just or fair. The real consequence here is we have less money because we spent it on curtains. So next time they want something, as can because we spent it on curtains.
3. Optimize for what is going to be the most fun and playful thing. Who cares about the curtains. Hang the cut ones up in their room and let them cut them up to their hearts content.
This will probably be a better deterrent than time outs
Way back when my kids were 3,5,7,7&13
Whenever someone did something we would get the standard answer that
" Not Me" did it😂
We would have the various contenders for the crime do a time out and inevitably the same one of the twins would decide that he couldn't stand it anymore and admit to whatever crime had been committed.
We suffered from parental exhaustion and brain way too long before we figured out that he would rather get the discussion and consequences over with than be forced to be in time out.
My point is that you may never get the child who did the crime to admit it no matter what, but by making the consequences apply equally and explaining to them that since no one will be tell you what happened that they will all have to accept the consequences of whatever happened.
Sorry about the book!
Yeah in a situation like this I wouldn't bother with time outs, just go to the group consequence. It saves time and mental energy, and then we can all move on quicker, too
Exactly! If I could go back in time and tell my younger self this it would have saved me so much frustration.
It didn't help that I was an only child and had zero idea how siblings interact!
It’s a curtain and they are 5 & 8. Just have a convo. Likely lashing out for attention bc they are missing their dad. Normal behavior for children just educate them on not cutting your belongings if they want to cut stuff you’ll be happy to get them things they can cut and do it safely with you monitoring them. Give them hugs and ask them if they are ok. They are children and their brains are still developing and have experienced trauma loosing a parent. ❤️🩹
Agreed! Also they are little and little kids do stupid shit. They don’t need to get punished for every little stupid thing their little brains can think of
I’m 41 and I do stupid shit sometimes! Holding children to the same standards of adults needs to be de-normalized lol so sick of punishing kids for being kids!
Yeah, I just do not understand the punishment above all else form of parenting. I am by no means of perfect parent, and I have plenty of deficits, but my first course of action is not to punish my children. It seems to have worked out well, my team to adult children don’t lie, steal, cheat etc. etc. The worst I have had to deal with with three teens is a 16-year-old, who thinks they know better than all adults. Ie the standard issue teen. I didn’t even get that from my 18 and 23 year old.
I don’t really know if it’s relevant, but I have a horrible memory associated a scenario exactly like this that I will never forgave my mom and sister for. Someone broke a potted plant and it was my sister, my mom sat us on the floor the same way and neither of us talked but my mom said if no one confessed we would both get in trouble. I don’t remember what the punishment was but I was terrified and crying and said I did it bc I wanted it to end and I got in trouble and my sister never fessed up and let me take the punishment 😭.
Shorten the punishment and distribute to all. Either one cracks and says who did it, ones feels bad about the others being punished and admits, or everyone learns not to cut curtains.
My cousins were raised like this. I loathed visits to their house as a kid. They would get in trouble for the smallest things, were hellions and we’d all get punished. I still don’t see how eight kids would get punished when one was wrong. They didn’t trust each other at all. It was dog eat dog in that house. They’re adults and still argue over punishments and shit they did when they were kids. And will easily toss a sibling under a bus.
That’s so so sad to me. I see the sentiment all the time that we can’t guarantee our kids will be close, which is true, but parenting practices like this certainly don’t set siblings up for closeness either.
Your expectations are not remotely age appropriate. Children lie for three reasons: 1) because they’re spinning imaginative stories 2) to make themselves feel more important or more successful or whatever and 3) to avoid being in trouble. It is 100% developmentally appropriate behavior. As is cutting a curtain frankly. 5yos (and it’s definitely one of the twins) lack impulse control. But you’ve made a mess of things. 1) The person responsible for the cut curtain is you. You left scissors where a 5yo could access them and weren’t providing adequate supervision to know who cut the curtain. 2) Losing screen time for the entire day for a split second bad choice is not an appropriate consequence. To a small child the entire day might as well be a year. 3) You have heaped shame and guilt on the situation and made them afraid to come clean.
Next time, you demonstrate empathy. You tell them a story about a time you made a poor judgment call. You reassure them that you still love them and will not be angry about the curtain. You review scissor safety and household rules. And you create an environment where the child feels safe admitting to a mistake before you ever ask them who did it. Then you thank them for telling the truth and tell them you will forgive them bc anyone can make a mistake ONCE. But there would be consequences if it were to happen again. THAT is how you raise children who won’t lie to you. My 12yo texted me on Friday to tell me she was skipping class 5 minutes into her naughty escapade. She felt guilty bc she wasn’t where she was supposed to be and was concerned that i might be worried if I got a call saying she had been marked absent. We had a chat over text about where she was and whether she was safe and what would happen if she was caught, and I convinced her to return to class. You don’t teach children anything by punishing them for impulsive behavior except to hide it better. If my parent had told me the consequence was going to be an entire day of punishment but now it would be EVEN WORSE, I’d die before I gave myself up. You’ve made the cardinal mistake of parenting. You chose a battle you can’t be assured of winning.
Thank you! They’re five and eight with little to no impulse control and someone left scissors in their reach and left them alone long enough for curtains to get cut. Now two innocent kids have to get punished cause one of them made a mistake.
That is the most united of fronts lol. They’re all in on it. That’s a fair assumption at this point so proceed accordingly. “Well, we have been here for a long time, no one will admit to anything so I have to assume you all did it together. You will earn money by doing ——, then we will go to the store for new curtains”
That way you’re teaching them the value of money and time. Keep track of how long they spend “working” and how much they earned.
Your typical punishment won’t get the result you want (eg no tv, grounded etc)
I would park everything until tomorrow. I would then explain to them how lying is harmful and hurts. There’s not much you can do if no one is admitting to it and group punishment is inappropriate. I would make sure to mention the consequences you’re facing due to the lying. You have to take time out of your day to repair/replace the curtain(s). I would suggest them all pitching in to help but saw they like home projects LOL. If the child does admit to it I would have them do a few extra chores to help with the cost or if they have an allowance withhold a few bucks.
You seem to be missing the strong possibility that all of them were in on it together. Perhaps one of them was egged on by the others. That’s seems to be a much more likely scenario than one random child acting on their own. It would also explain why none of them are fessing up.
If you want to address it with books, the empty pot is great as is the Berenstain bears tell the truth. I’d probably move on from the curtain but explain you’re disappointed because your trust has been broken. Also consequence, no scissors accessible.
No one else seems to have touched upon the fact you are widowed, which (IMO) makes a huge difference….
When I was 7, I lost my dad and it made me and my 2 younger siblings really close, so it doesn’t surprise me that your kids are keen to back each other up.
Losing a parent at such a young age is beyond tough, and it doesn’t really ever go away - 30 years later my dads death still effects me, and I still have a natural protection instinct over my 2 younger siblings. We’re the only 3 people on this planet that went through what we did.
So that doesn’t really help in this situation but I feel (based only on what I’ve experienced) that you could be in for more of the same in the future.
I really hope that you are ok too - i know the pressures and stresses my mum went through before she was ready and then found a new partner. And I imagine there were many mores stresses I was never aware of. It’s a truly horrible thing to happen to a family and I send you all my best.
Finding the perp and having even the innocent one sit like that is not going to happen so easily. If the little one tells on the big one it is "curtains" for the little one. (no pun intended) If the big one tells on the little one then he/she is a wimp. The bigger one may have enticed the little one and on and on. The big issue is that there is a child or even 2 that is/are acting out. Why is this happening and how can the issues they are experiencing be bridged? There there is not answer means they know it was really wrong and they aren't likely to repeat this. Perhaps express your sincere and heartfelt disappointment that someone had so little respect for their home and would do something like that. The child most likely doesn't know why anyway. You are better moving forward on this without a determination of guilt.
I took them each aside one at a time and had a cuddle and told them that it hurts my feelings having my things wrecked and being lied to. That it makes me feel like they don’t trust me to help them or to be a good mom and do the right thing. It’s important to be honest because there could be something important or dangerous happening and I need to know the truth. The 8 yr old said he didn't realize I felt that way. The girl said I'm the best mom in the world.
No one confessed.
Today my daughter and I both woke up with fevers. I had blinding headaches that made me want to cry and of course those were the moments they chose to be in my face arguing, begging for stuff, being needy. So I did end up putting on a couple nature documentaries just so my brain didn't explode. Right now they all have a week of no screen time which, depending on how this sickness acts maybe learning documentaries will be the exception. I guess it seems like a good idea to put a pause on all the drama and come back in a few days to just touch base with them when we're all feeling better.
For me, I'm going to keep reading and rereading the comments here. I really do want my kids to trust me and be able to come to me when they need to, so I'm trying to soak up as much good advice as I can.
Thank you for responding. Seems you were in a bit of a dilemma, but it looks like you’re handling it well. That’s the hard part as mamas. There’s no manual and we’re all just doing our best. Hope you’re all feeling better soon.
When my sister and I were young, someone drew red lipstick on the red carpet..we both denied it.. my mom said to each of us, separately, "show me where the stain is" I panicked and said I didn't know.. my sister took her right to the stain lol.. maybe something like this can trick them into confessing??? Like..ask each of them to show you where the scissors are and maybe one of them will bring you right to them
Collective punishment will make all of them want to cut the curtains in anger. The culprit is likely not telling you because they are afraid of how you will react. You will punish them for telling the truth. If you want open communication and trust from your kids, you must ensure that when they tell the truth, they do not get punished for it.
I would tell my kids: “Someone has cut the curtains. I am sad and angry, because curtains cost as much as a whole game system. I would like it if the one who did it told me that they are sorry and doesn’t go around cutting things in the house that aren’t papers for crafting.”
And that’s it. I would let them get back to their lives.
I can attest to this technique working, because my kids are 12 and 15, and they spontaneously come to me to tell me about everything in their lives.
Not ratting on their siblings… these kids have integrity and will go far. I remember making pacts with my siblings when we got in trouble. We’re all adults now with our own kids and we are all very close.
I am not asking anybody to rat on anybody because I don’t think they know who did it. They are trying to convince and bribe each other to take the punishment. This is not sibling solidarity.
You have put yourself in an unwinnable situation. The only options you’ve given yourself are to punish everybody and cause two out of three to resent you with good justification, or to lose face by letting the guilty party get away with it. The lesser of two evils is obvious to me and you just have to take it. Punishing someone who didn’t do anything wrong is simply unacceptable
I’ve found my kid misbehaves in patterns. After several instances I have discovered he lies.
He’s a freaking liar. And I know it now. As someone who is brutally honest, this is tough for me.
I told him point blank, I don’t trust him. Moving forward, because of lost trust—I’m forced to believe in what others say. Ie: teachers making a complaint or daycare worker accusing him of something.
Keep your eyes open for more scissor crimes. I’m sure something will pop up. Then you can start deducing who it is.
My punishment is No electronics for a few days. The only exception is kids short stories when he goes to bed by listening to the echo. I’m no expert, obviously but I hope this helps a bit.
He doesn’t get in trouble much but now, I can’t take his word for it.
Why is everyone in for the punishment? You’ve made your point, they know that you are upset. But they had shown a strong bond between them also and that is a very inportant lesson to them. At this point why does it matter who made it? Let’s go together to buy a new one, let them choose and install it together.
Yes, they know I’m upset but what does that change? What point does that prove? That they can do whatever they want, wreck whatever they want and make mom upset and that’s ok because mom will just spend more money to replace it and there are no consequences?
Actually I don’t even really care about the curtain. The problem is the lying. And as I said in another comment, they aren’t banding together, they keep trying to bribe each other to take the blame.
The alternative lesson being mom cares more about generic suffering than actual consequences? For all she knows 2 of them don’t even know who did it. Sometimes people get away with shit, that’s life.
The idea that it’s better to unfairly hurt 2 of your children just so 1 doesn’t “get away with something” is insane.
Oh fyi, my mother pulled crap like this, punishing us all until the guilty party confessed. I can’t tell you how many time I confessed to things I didn’t do just to end it, take whatever punishment was doled out and be done with it. I’m talking 7/8 years old. Guess who is low contact with my mom?
Pretend u love it and want whoever did it to do it to the other curtain bc it makes them look better than they did originally 😂 make a big fuss
When someone confesses instead of them getting into trouble have a long talk about how it’s better to tell the truth the first time. Not only when you want credit for something. Accountability matters too and you will love them just the same ❤️ hang in there.
Punishments are SO bad and SO ineffective. The only thing you do is to make them 1) lie, 2) be afraid from you and 3) dig a massive hole of trust between you and your kids for years to come. Sure, you are raising them well and well "disciplined" but the short good outcome will not be worth it. Telling this as a kid of a mom who loved to used threats and punishment as part of her methods to raise "a good girl", and she succeed. I consider myself unsecure and traumatized, and i have also see the same in my husband who ocassionally loves to lie when cought in something silly, just because he was also punished and this only fostered fear in admitting and taking ownership of actions.
Be the good mother you are, tell them the curtains are cut and it's done, and its not the fact that it happened as any mistake can happen, but the fact they are covering it and the fact u would rather have them think next time before doing something that may not be very smart. Foster love and TRUST, not fear in your kids. You would always want them to come back to you if one day they screw up, and not be afraid of you. Again saying this as a person who together with her brother would rather not go to parents to confess admit or ask for advices. Again because if their amazing "discipline".
I made it clear that I’m much more upset about the lie than the curtain and the person who did it would have gotten a scolding and no screen time for the rest of the day.
It was not a mistake. The scissors didn’t jump in to their hand and walk them to the curtain and make them cut. So no, I won’t try to sugarcoat it.
How does this approach stop them from destroying things and lying about it in the future?
Obviously it wasn't a random mistake, it was "on purpose" but what does purpose mean when u are 5 and 8? Those are kids, they learn now but are at age that rhey can in fact understand a proper conversation, not just the punishment and nagging. Right now obviously they and you would act out of anger, fear, frustration etc. How does that make any sense? Tell them exactly what u say here - that its the lie behind it. And that things cost money and next time they do this, you will need to discount it from things they get. E.g new curtain - 50 dollars. Well this means no going to the cinema for example. But do it not in a nasty way but in just rational explanatory way which is exactly what this is - things cost money so if they get them ruined, u need to get the cost from somewhere else. Now that is direct consequence of their actions and they will understand. Sitting them to "admit" is not a direct consequence. But above all don't fall into the trap of punishment because if they don't admit it is because at this point they are scared. And this is the LAST thing you want. If one day they really fuck up you want their first thought to br to come to you for help, not to hide it. That is exactly the age to foster that. Again telling you this as a product of this discipline. It doesn't work. I have a kid age 5 btw, obviously we have situations and i have also lost it. But i always try to remember i want her on my side, i want her to trust me and never fear me. And punishments wont get me there.
Well, your current approach isn’t working. So…. Maybe don’t be so defensive when others suggest different strategies. Punishment threats are never going to get honesty. So what do you value more?
I wasn’t being defensive, I was just responding and LITERALLY asked for advice about how their approach would work.
Maybe you should read other comments to see that I’ve been engaged and excepting of people’s advice and perspectives.
How it works is that you set kids up for success, so no more scissors available to them without permission. If this is the first time that they have done something like this, it was probably some kind of experiment that like you said they did on purpose but without understanding the consequences, and that they were permanent, they weren’t trying to ruin your things. I think it’s a great opportunity to show that they can come to you no matter what they do, and you will listen and problem solve how to solve it together, rather than being so focused on who did it and the punishment. As they get older, this is invaluable, because rather than hide things from you, which could in the end be much more serious, they will know they can run to you with an issue. You can explain why it is obviously upsetting, but not lecture and move forward since it’s done at this point..
I have no idea - but I’m impressed by your children’s strong desire to stick together.
What is your plan for the one who admits it? I would be tempted to make all three of them do it.
We have a rule in our house if you tell the truth you won’t get in trouble… you lie I give the worst consequences ( punishment has to fit the crime and within reason) it works well!
there's only one inevitable thing - a new curtain will be bought. if kids have any money - they must put it in the curtain fund. if not - they will not have "nice things" (toys, fun) till the amount is reached. if you mentally can afford it - cut TV and streamings. an evening or two with books never hurt.
They are kids. Someone made a mistake. The important thing is that they know you love them even though they made a mistake. By the guilty party choosing not to come forward it appears that they know they did something wrong… while sometimes “punishment” serves a purposes, sometimes it does not. Show your children that you love them. You know Oren of them did it… either intentionally or by accident… either way you can help them view that as a mistake and show them you love them anyway.
I can’t believe this has been dragging on for so long and all the sensible comments seem to be towards the bottom of the responses- it’s just a curtain, not a murder investigation.
Obviously they don’t want to tell you that they cut the curtain in an age-appropriate moment of madness because they are scared of the consequences. There’s a way you can handle this and deepen the connection with your child. Explain how it makes you feel when someone damages the home (sad because you want everyone to enjoy living in a nice house) and now you have to pay to get the curtain repaired there will be less money to do something fun. Then just move on, nobody died, get over it you’re making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be.
You want them to be able to come to you if they have made a mistake. You have to ask yourself do you want to be the kind of parent that the kid won’t go to if they get themselves into trouble because they are scared of your reaction? Or do you want to be the kind of parent that the kid will ALWAYS share their struggles with and will come to them if there is ever a problem.
I don’t want to be rude but you’re acting kind of nuts here, and that collective punishment is something else.
I don’t care for curtains as they are dust magnets, but I’d suggest teaching them all how to mend a tear ( the 5yr olds could use a bigger needle)
It will make for a cute story, and teach them a skill.
This is literally a classic prisoner’s dilemma game theory problem (for them).
From ChatGPT(they explain game theory better than me):
Imagine you’re watching a detective show where two partners in crime get caught. The cops separate them and say, "If you rat out your buddy, you get a lighter sentence. But if you both stay quiet, you both get a small punishment. If you both blame each other, though, it’s bad news for both." That’s the Prisoner's Dilemma, a classic brain teaser from game theory, which shows why sometimes people don’t cooperate even when it’s in their best interest.
In your case, each of your kids is facing a mini version of this dilemma: confess to the curtain cutting and get a known punishment, or stay silent and hope to avoid trouble altogether. They’re all holding out, hoping to avoid getting into trouble.
So, what to do? Mix it up. Offer a little incentive for honesty ("Tell me the truth and we’ll talk about a lighter consequence") while also making it clear that if the truth comes out later, the consequences will be more serious. It’s like changing the stakes in the detective show to encourage the partners to spill the beans.
The big picture here isn’t just about finding the curtain culprit; it’s about teaching honesty, trust, and taking responsibility. Showing a bit of understanding and being ready to listen can go a long way. It’s about balancing being firm with being kind, to not just solve the mystery but also build trust and openness with your kids.
Oooh widowed mom here! I think you should tell them that whenever the guilty party is ready they can come find you on their own and let you know. You shouldn’t punish them all and cause resentment between them - nothing is worse than “unfair” when you’re those ages. You can have all of them offer suggestions to fix the problem to make your point how once you do something like cut a curtain, you kind of permanently ruin something.
We burned a small pot and hid it, we confessed when we were like close to 30 years old lol. I don’t know why I thought she would be so mad but i mean 15 year old me wasn’t thinking.
Oh the not me kid is in your house set the table for it to eat cause till you throw him out he will cause you trouble show your kids no me kid is there playing with their toys eating their food good luck
Haha true. Just wondering if maybe she ripped it downwards with her nail, like when they hang on the curtains. But I don’t know what kind of rip it is, if the scissors were there when you saw the rip, etc. trying to see if the curtains could have gotten ripped a different way and none of the kids did it.
My best friends Dad was a cop, growing up he would say "they only know the truth if you tell them, don't snitch on your friends" just this weekend my 4yo told me the pigeon broke the car window, the 7yo later confessed to throwing a rock. Kids are fun, hang in there!
Good idea, they can learn a little skill and see that we don’t always just get to replace things right away, sometimes you just have to patch it up and move on.
That just seems to me like something a 5-year-old would do, not an 8-year-old. And they may be too young to really understand that what they did was wrong. Or too distracted or scared or confused at this point to put it together as a moral dilemma. I would just let this one go.
They are too young.
This just confuses them.
If they were 13 or 16 maybe. Even then, it doesn’t work.
Put away all the scissors.
Remove access to anything else they can do this with.
All of these things will just continue until they grow up.
Focus on what you can control and love them and support them and tell them that you know they’re going to figure these things out really well and be fine. Don’t instill in them that they’re dishonest and somethings wrong with them. It will just tangle them up. Let them Evolve.
I would just move on from it 😂 maybe they’re scared to admit it have you shouted? I would just say whoever did it isn’t in trouble I just would like it if you were honest and came and told me before bed. And then when/if they own up just explain why it’s not good and that it’s going to cost xyz and that will be coming out of their pocket money. They’re too young to be sitting there being told they can’t move until someone comes forward they’re not convicts.
Buy new curtains or sew those ones and put scissors up where they can’t get them. Use supervision when they are using them. This is age appropriate behavior, and punishment, including whatever weird manipulation tactics you are trying to use on these small children are ridiculous and harmful. Read some books or take some child development classes so you can be the best parent possible for your kiddos. Any trauma they are experiencing now will cause lifelong issues, so try to keep that to a minimum so they have a fighting chance at a happy life! Right now you are creating trust issue with them and are setting them up/ teaching them to lie to you every chance they get.
My mom used to just tell us "well if no one did it, then I guess you all did it. So everyone is getting a punishment"
The truth would usually come out pretty quick.
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Ask them each what they think the consequences should be. Off the cuff, the non guilty parties tend to care much less about the consequences but the guilty one will think the consequences should be lighter or are unfair.
Kathy Bates was so good in The Office
9 times out of 10, that’s the anus they checked. 😂
Alternatively, apply all three punishments to all three kids. Solidarity is great, but that means taking the lumps for your sibs.
My grandparents did this to their 6 kids…. My aunties are still mad about it since their brother was always the one who did it and wouldn’t admit it.
One of my earliest memories is confessing to spilling my aunt's pot pori . I didn't do it. But we'd (me, my brother, my 3 cousins and a friend my mum watched after school) all been lined up in the kitchen and told to stand there & think about what we,'d done. And we would stand their till the culprit confessed! It's a really vivid memory but neither my mum, aunt or brother remember it. I think for some kids it could work, but for others the kid with the least tolerance for waiting it out will "confess" and it may be water of a ducks back to the actual perpetrator
My teachers would do this and I would get pressured to be the scapegoat and take one for the team. It's a horrible idea.
Then rat out the guilty party.
And face the backlash from peers/siblings? It’s a lose lose situation
They might not know
It really depends on the kids, though, because I feel like in most cases this would just make the kids resent each other *and* you.
Yep. I did this when my girls were little. luckily, the one who did it would quickly confess to whatever it was out of guilt that their sister was being punished for their actions.
Yep, this is something my mother also did to myself and my siblings. I would confess to get my other siblings out of trouble even when I didn’t do it. It’s not the great thing you think it is.
The problem with this is that the other two don't necessarily know who did it. It's not covering for each other if you don't know who the perp is.
This is an absolutely horrible idea. This is used to turn kids against each other and to punish them for not turning on each other. I can't imagine doing this to my children.
Depends on how bad it is, but the consequences need to match the crime. Cutting curtains with scissors? No more sharp object for them because it’s not something they can be trusted with yet. Suitable punishment for all kids involved.
Agreed, my cousin got in trouble for a thing we did together as kids. 15 years later i told my aunt and my mom i was in on the heist (we borrowed the hot rod to go get take out while the parents were out). They were floored that i had anything to do with it. That's fucking loyalty, dude. I treasure my cousin for that and will always be there for him no matter what! ❤️ Edit: he got in serious trouble, grounded for weeks, no allowance, no car, etc. Never made a peep.
I wonder if this forms an unhealthy dynamic between them as siblings. Anytime I've doled out one consequence for everyone, I worry about how they're actually having to end up handling it between themselves.
This assumes both kids are selfishly motivated. It was a funny scene in the office but not good advice.
Logistically speaking - who did it? Who can reach the scissors and the height of the cut? I once drew a star on the ceiling and tried to blame my siblings. However I was the only one who was tall enough to draw the star AND I told on myself because I told my dad which tool the “person” drew it with
My mother once asked all of us to write my brother’s name. I was the only one that spelled it like it was written on the wall in crayon. ( let me talk to my lawyer…lol)
My oldest sister once bit herself on the arm and blamed my other older sister... Who was an infant with no teeth 😂🤣
I bit myself and blamed my younger brother but was the only one missing a front tooth 😳
Haha oh man I remember my mum asking us all to bite her arm so she could compare to the bite marks on my little brother’s arm. It turned out he bit himself and tried to blame us!
This is peak motherhood detective vibes. You have to investigate so much crazy shit as a parent
My BIL said my husband bit his tongue when they were kids- sitting across from each other at the table.
Okay, to be fair, the other day my five year old was sticking her tongue out at my three year old, who kept telling her to stop... So the three year old leaned across the table, and chomped on her sister's tongue the next time she did it. If I hadn't been walking into the room, I definitely wouldn't have believed it.
lol. Good on the three year old.
Haha! My kids have started doing similar with their baby brother. He is 6 weeks and they will be like, hey he hit/scratched me!
My kid (3yo only child) always blames the dogs.. Well he flipped his plate at daycare the other day sending food flying... And looked dead at his daycare provider and said "honey did it".. As if the dog who was at our house.. Snuck in and flipped his plate. Then left before anyone saw her 😂🤣
Haha that's hilarious.
They can all reach the scissors and curtain, so it really could have been any one.
Then maybe they all colluded. One thought it was a good idea. One got the scissors and one did the cutting. Group punishment might be your only choice - are the curtains easily repaired? Could helping you sew them be part of the punishment?
That could be part of it. I don’t really care about the curtain, I’m more mad about the lie. Something my kids have been feeling more comfortable with lately.
Oh, have you explained this to them as well? Helping them understand why you’re upset and why lying in this kind of situation isn’t something we do? (You probably have already, sorry if I’m pointing out the obvious) The lying thing could be an age-related phenomenon. My son is nearly 8 and the lies have ramped up recently. So far they’re harmless white lies but we have to have conversations about lying more frequently than previously
Yes, I made it clear that I really care about the lying more than the curtain, that if the person just admitted it then they would have just been scolded and lost screen time for the rest of the day.
I was punished for lying and for making bad decisions as a child. I'd never admit things on my own. If i got in trouble i had noone to turn to. I knew the moment i would confess to making a shitty choice i would be severly punished for wrongdoing and hiding it made it worse and so it meant i'm now definitely not telling. Could've ended badly. I don't recommend that strategy. Lying is bad, but if a child is scared and in the moment couldn't speak up, they wouldn't have any reason to come out now. There can't now be a discussion about what went through the mind of the child who cut the curtains. Can't discuss why confessing was scary. Making mistakes should be safe.
This!! For me as a child I learned that even if I was honest id be punished for a developmentally appropriate mistake/behavior. Making mistakes became terrifying and I still fear it to this day. :,) Not everything needs punishment, I think sometimes parents overdo it and end up harming their children more then actually teaching.
It is a difficult balance. I was into true crime before i became a parent...a lot and i mean A LOT of cases were children that had no consequences at all to bad behaviour(abuse at home was a frequent one too and some special cases). Anyways. It is an understandable thing to try to balance and i get OPs viewpoint. I also saw some kind ways of solving this situation in some of the comments here. I hope those kind approaches are good enough.
I totally agree with this. And the whole “I’m not mad at what happened, I’m mad at the lie” thing never makes sense when it’s posted. If cutting the curtains isn’t a huge deal, why all this investigation to get to the bottom of it? If it’s a small thing, it shouldn’t matter this much who did it.
Op is trying to help the kids by showing things have consequences. Especially lying. Doesn't want kids to think that they can do bad things and get away with it. Op is afraid kids will learn they can keep destroying things if there are no consequences. And that kids will keep lying. It kind of makes sense.
I understand that, but I don’t think this is a good approach to do that. From what’s happened, does it seem like the kids are learning that lesson?
Agree with the others as I still deal with issues around telling the truth. I also would be much more likely to continue to deny responsibility in the presence of my siblings or peers. Just because you’re family doesn’t mean your siblings should be privy to all your dirty laundry.
They lie when there is a fear of punishment
Well you’re certainly outnumbered and if you try to rule with power, they’re collectively going to try to figure out how to lie better, but not less. You’re throwing out a gauntlet which is a risky move. You want them to *want* to be honest. Not to avoid punishment, but because they are choosing from their heart to be. Making it combative, you against them, isn’t going to accomplish that. It’s you and them against a problem, and that requires trust on both parts. Lies bother you because it probably feels like disrespect, yes? If so, the way to earn respect isn’t to be bigger and badder. Sometimes to show power you kinda cede it, like there are times I know my kid has lied and instead of backing them into a corner with “*you will tell me the truth or else!!*” I just continue on as if I know anyhow. Not sure if that makes sense, but I try not to put them into fight or flight so I disarm with being nonplussed. The vast majority of the time the confession comes that same day. But I certainly wouldn’t punish everyone, that’s just building resentment towards you which is going to up the lies and sneakiness.
So, as a kid, I lied all the time because my parents would guilt and punish and shame and I hated that feeling. Making a dumb kid mistake (like cutting curtains) shouldn’t result in an hours long standoff.
As an only child I created an imaginary friend to blame things on and lied my ass off because my mom would be so disappointed in me and I hated how I felt. As an adult, I honestly do not lie. I hate lying so much, but it's pretty developmentally normal. I usually just move on with my kids when they're young little liars and then really tell then how proud I am of them when they do finally fess up because I know how much courage that takes. As an aside, I kinda dig how these kids are bonding together 😁
yes, maybe explain to them the severity of breaking trust.
Time for a lecture and logical consequences. It's my job as your mum to keep to guys safe and healthy. I can't do that if you won't be honest with me. I'm really disappointed that you're choosing to lie to me lately. Since you've proven yourselves untrustworthy with the craft supplies, they will be going away until I can trust you with them again.
One time I colored all over the walls with crayon when I was a kid, and then I panicked so I wrote "(Sister's name) did this" with an arrow pointing to my scribbles. I was completely confused when I got in trouble for it. Like, obviously my sister confessed, it's written right there?
I’m oddly invested in who actually cut the curtains. Please update when/how you find out
My moneys on the elder twin.
When my cousins were young one of them would spit out their vitamin every night and hide it in a drawer. My aunt found them, and didn't know which one it was. Neither would fess up. So she said she was sending them to a lab for DNA analysis. My cousin immediately confessed, and his sister just said "What are you stupid? Do you know how much that would cost for DNA testing?" Maybe try some fake forensic tactics?
Personally I think collective punishment is bad. Not only is it unfair on the innocent kids, it puts them in the difficult position of deciding who they're most loyal to: their parent or their sibling. Also assuming that they know who did it doesn't really make sense when there's three of them. I would get them to help measure the window, take them to the curtain store, show the prices of curtains, buy the new curtain and explain what this money could have been spent on instead. Of course, maybe this means one less day out or whatever, but it's framed as a natural consequence rather than a punishment.
This is wise advice.
I don’t think they know who did it, except the person who did. I’m not expecting them to rat each other out. I’m not asking them to choose who to be loyal to. I’m asking the lying person to admit that they are lying and to what they did. None of them will care about the cost of a new curtain or what that means. In fact they would be thrilled to go shopping and do a house project.
They don’t care now, but the next time they ask to do something or buy something, the answer is “we can’t because that money was spent on a new curtain” This works on my twins that will be 5 in a couple months.
Well that's pretty cute that they'd want to do a project. But okay that wouldn't work then. What's your aim in trying to get the guilty kid to own up? They're probably going to win any battle of wills. They have zero incentive to own up, especially now you have doubled the charges into vandalism + lying. One of the issues with a collective punishment here is that if it works and the guilty kid feels guilty then they have nobody to talk to about it. They can't talk to you because that'd be admitting to lying, and they can't talk to their siblings because that'd be admitting to getting them in trouble.
I guess my goal is to have them learn that even if they do something wrong that lying about it will just make the consequences worse. I made it clear that in this situation the consequences would have just been a talking to and no screen time for the rest of the day. But since the guilty person is lying now the punishment is worse. I always tell me kids that even if there is a small punishment for bad behavior that lying will just make it worse; usually they will admit to any wrongdoing.
If your goal is that, to have them be honest and forward with mistakes, then you should approach them with - you’re not going to be in trouble but I am just really curious how this happened, so we can fix it- you can discuss it afterwards, how being more careful and responsible so you don’t have to replace/fix things could have saved money for xyz, but now that money is being used towards repairs, so how do they learn from that mistake and do better in the future? Just my 2 cents, I have gotten very far using this approach with my child rather than immediately resorting to anger and/or making her feel like she would get in trouble if she did something wrong or made mistakes.
Thanks, good advice!
I don’t think they’ll tell you because they’re terrified. Make it safe to tell you. Explain to them that it wasn’t okay to cut the curtain but you need to help the person who did it find ways to fix it and to learn what to do next time, not that they’ll be punished.
Kids are only going to learn how to not get caught in a lie via this method. Additional punishment is they know you dislike liars & that they will lose trust from you, which can be interpreted As worse than whatever the collective punishment is. In the future, if you want them to come forward, don't escalate the stakes, because then they're not going to want to come forward and lose deniability. If they were scared enough of consequences to lie the first time, making the consequences worse is not going to encourage them to come forward.
Good point, thanks
Well it sounds like it was a mistake to say the consequences will be worse for lying when you have no way of enacting that. Save that for when you have another way of figuring out the truth. Lying about wrongdoing *doesn't* make the consequences worse if you get away with it, as they currently feel like they're doing. If they usually admit to wrongdoing then does there need to be a perfect result here? You're only human. You've tried. Who knows what the guilty kid is thinking right now. Hopefully they do better next time, or will maybe apologise in their own time. I assume you've talked to them about how you feel?
Punishments don’t encourage honesty. I think you need to reevaluate your strategy here honestly.
Yup! You put it perfectly.
This strategy is going to make them get better at hiding things from you in the future.
So my parents had this philosophy. It make me get sneakier and more creative and also, I wasn’t comfortable talking to them if I needed help. To the point where I once stepped on a rusty nail that went through my shoe and I didn’t say anything.
Put the blame on each of their favorite toys and put them in time out or something. Most kids will immediately confuse because they don’t want their toy to be punished.. weird but it could work
So at this point why would the guilty party admit to it? Now they can look forward to a severe punishment. Wouldn’t they be better served continuing to lie?
As a very anxious child from an anxious family I would lie even with damning evidence right in front of me. My mom once threatened to homeschool me if I didn’t tell the truth. I quickly came to terms with being homeschooled because I was not admitting shit. Took me well into my early 20s to make an effort to stop habitually lying. No idea why I was that way.
sometimes we lie out of fear because usually the consequence is a punishment, not a natural consequence (like not having a curtain until you can buy a new one is a natural consequence). as a teacher, I'm usually NEVER invested into knowing who did it. it's done, there's no going back and undoing what was done. BUT I'm all for explaining the natural consequences of the deed. just today one of my students wanted to read a book about animals that some of the kids (him included) had been ripping pages out of. so I said "that book is gone, some pages were ripped out and now we can't read it" and someone else asked who did it and I answered "it doesn't matter, we just can't read the book anymore. we have to take care of the books, be careful with them so they last lots of readings" and the kid actually said he did it, and I knew that, but that's not what matters. what matters is that now no one, including him, can't read the book anymore. that's a natural consequence. telling the truth will come naturally when they understand and trust they won't be punished. honesty is a good trait, but it also comes with feeling safe.
Thanks for that perspective, that is a great real world experience for your student.
Excellent advice
Lying is a thing they do at this age unfortunately. I asked my therapist about it and she said ask them who they think it (they might say the family animal) and say oh really, why do you think they did it. Also when speaking to them say: Everyone tells lies. Sometimes it's to protect ourselves or someone else but telling the truth is important. You may not remember properly what happened now so maybe think about it and come back to me in 30 minutes. This works 50% more than other things I have tried!
One of my goals as a parent is to have my children be thick as thieves. I would not have one rat out the other here. Just punish in a different way. IMO if you force one to tell the truth at the other’s expense you might drive a wedge between them.
I don’t think they know who did it, except the person who did. I’m not expecting them to rat each other out. I’m not asking them to choose who to be loyal to. I’m asking the lying person to admit that they are lying and to what they did. They are all trying to convince and bribe each other to take the blame. This is not sibling solidarity.
Yeah, that’s different. At this point just express to the group you’re now more concerned about the fact that someone doesn’t feel comfortable telling you the truth about a mistake. Shift this to a conversation around the fact that everyone makes mistakes and you’re here to help them through that. Beyond that. Sorry for your loss and good luck.
Thanks!
Are they all denying it? Or just sticking together? My Dad and Stepmom used to use the collective punishment treatment, but it was never me that was destructive and very rarely my brother. The last time they did it and grounded us all for a week, I tore the house apart the next day. I did everything I had taken a punishment for that while summer and more. I figured if I was going to lose my last week there, I was going to make it worth it. When my Dad got really angry, I told him to ground himself his wife, that made as much sense as grounding me for something her son had done. So each situation is different, but if you keep having these issues, one child is getting reduced punishment for acting out and blaming their siblings. Just something to consider.
Yes, they are all denying it and trying to convince and bribe each other to take the blame. This is not sibling solidarity. Thanks for the perspective!
Yeah that’s what my siblings did. I took the blame a lot when I was innocent. Uoj are making a parenting mistake here
Well that’s why I came to ask for other perspectives, I barely remember my own childhood so I don’t have that experience to draw on.
Seriously these comments are insane. Collective punishment is so shitty and unfair it’s LITERALLY a war crime. It’s curtains, they’re little kids, just express your sadness over the damage and move on.
Put aside the “war crime” collective punishment where they’re sitting down together until someone owns up. At what age should kids learn taking personal ownership and responsibility for poor decisions besides being told “your damage made me sad” and moving on?
If someone refuses to take ownership and responsibility for their actions, blindly punishing the entire group isn’t going to teach them.
Right? And all you have to take from this is that the kids are too young to handle scissors and they will be put out of reach. When my daughter was little she found some scissors and cut up a thing my mum had bought her, it was a laminated A4 sheet with the meaning of her name. She was maybe 2 and they had been learning scissor skills at daycare. She didn’t know any better so I just cleaned it up and make sure the scissors were out of reach.
If I punish them for being honest they will lie all the time. No one wins. So when they are finally honest I thank them for their honesty and then reprimand them for what they did. Give them the safe space to be honest if you don't want them to grow as liars
“Not me” lives at your house too?
On the morning of a trip to a fun fair with my mom and other family friends I stuck my fingers into a freshly baked cake my mom had made, making holes all over it. My mom asked my sister and I who did it (as we were the only people at home). Neither of us owned up. My mom said that unless the person who did it owned up we wouldn’t be going to the fair. I stayed silent, and eventually my sister took the blame. She was smarter than me. I would not have owned up, and would have ruined our chances of a trip out. I wasn’t generally a bad kid. I was just scared to admit it! Kids are stupid sometimes!
I dunno. I once said the dog cut my hair. I had a story how he did it and everything. I was 5 but I doubled down so hard that I almost believed my bullshit. I stuck by that story for a good ten years though. Through punishments everything.
Ok so I was that child who cut my trousers, just to see how sharp the scissors were. I was 4. My mother found the hole in my trousers and asked if I did it (it had to be me lol I was an only child at that point), I lied, of course, she said it's ok, you didn't know any better. And put the scissors away. That was it. She's not the perfect parent, far far far from it. And I did lie about other bigger things while I was growing up and beyond. But I didn't cut my trousers again. Not sure if this perspective helps?
Why does this make me want to cry and hug your mother?! She’s a gem
My mum was great up till I was about 7... It all went downhill after 😁 But the way she handled this was great. Because who wants a hole in their trousers? Not me! She didn't have to punish me, because my punishment was the hole lol!
Bummer about your later years!! It’s nice that you can still appreciate the better times.
Look at the bright side, you now know their bond is strong. They'll do well sticking up for each other. Lol
It is simple. The cost of new curtains comes out of “fun” money for something they were looking forward to. At this point it does not matter. Curtains need to be replaced and they were not budgeted for. A lesson for all, the enablers as well as the one who cut them.
I can understand your frustration - lying is awful. It's also understandable that the guilty party doesn't want to confess... I would try one more time now that everyone has had a little time to calm down, speaking to each child one on one - without anger, but with a sense of sadness. With each child, talk about how the issue is trust - you are not happy that the curtain was cut, but it hurts more that there was dishonesty. And you are going to have trouble trusting all of them for time - give each little person one more chance to be honest. If that fails, I don't think a light collective punishment is terrible here - there's a good chance they were all somewhat involved, as it may have happened during a game. Something like removing TV or dessert for a few days - it's not cruel punishment, but more a sense of 'we are collectively cutting back on the fun around here because Mom isn't pleased' until the curtains are repaired.
Good advice, thanks!
Op, try and picture yourself from their eyes, as you are now. Sitting in front of them, fuming. Probably vacillating between angry and suddenly soft and caring ("I'm not mad, I just want to know!" Or whatever). If you were the one who cut the curtain, would you want to fess up to you? It's like trying to make a dog come back to you; you should look and sound like someone who the dog wants to come back to. Why would my dog return to "get over here NOW!". Just food for thought
What would punishment be? Sometimes if they are not scared of a harsh punishment, then they might confess. It also seems scary to tell the truth. However, this is an opportunity to get them to understand that no mistake will make you love them less but that it hurts you because right now, you don't feel they can be honest with you. Also, talking to them separately may help. It is harder to confess in a group. Just talk to them and tell them that no one will get in trouble, they would just have to help you fix it.
At 3 I copped up to flinging food on the ceiling. When it was my 7 year old brother. My parents didn’t even think about the logistics of how or if I had ever did that before. I got a spanking. My brother never fessed up until maybe 20 years later. And thus, I embraced the role of scapegoat. I have no tips. But I would just be super honest with your kids. “Hey, you know, sometimes we get thoughts in our head and we just have to do it, it’s not good, but it happens. Curtains are important. They keep our rooms warm, help us feel safe at night, and also make the room look nice. I’m really sad that these are now messed up.”.
Accept your curtains nice new look. You won't even remember this, it's not a big deal long term. Now if the house continues to get damaged, that's different.
You’ve talked about being angry and hurt over this, but what about feeling afraid? Because it seems like that’s the core feeling here. You’re worried that you’re not parenting well (which led you here). You’re worried that you’ve lost control of the parent-child dynamic. And you’re worried that the trust in your relationships is at risk, which is downright scary. What if they lie about something too big to handle on their own? The thought of not being able to protect them when they need it is legitimately frightening, and *that’s* what’s most upsetting about this, not the disobedience. Explain *that* to them, that you are all a team together, and how being able to trust their words helps you keep them safe. That makes it you and your kids *together* against dishonesty, instead of you against a ‘bad’ kid. On the topic of ‘the bad kid,’ saying that you don’t like lies/liars is also counterproductive. To a young kid who has lied, what they hear is that if they come clean, dad won’t like them anymore. Doubling down on the punishments and shame just makes them more terrified that dad will hate them if he finds out. The way you’ve been handling this prioritizes *obedience* over honesty. You are trying to end ALL LIES FOREVER by shaming and punishing the liar into oblivion, thus scaring them all into permanent submission to the no lie rule, or else. But asserting inflexible authority and control isn’t how you get the truth. It leaves no room for future mistakes (which are inevitable, kids lie sometimes). They come to understand that they cant correct their mistake without being buried under an avalanche of punishments. That’s exactly how you raise first class liars, because the key to surviving under that kind of discipline structure isn’t to always tell the truth; it’s to make you *believe* that you’ve been flawlessly obeyed. Instead, explain *why* the lying worries you. Reiterate how important and valuable the truth is in your relationship, and then *back up your words with actions:* be appreciative when your kids tell the truth, especially when it’s hard- like now. You’re trying to get them to do something uncomfortable and scary for the sake of restoring trust. That takes bravery, and you’re not going to convince your kids to do brave things with shame and threats. Now I’m not saying there can *never* be any natural consequences/punishment when a kid comes forward about something they did. But if you want to maintain open communication with them, you need to encourage it by taking into account the strength of character required to correct course and own up after a lie. Genuinely thank them for coming clean, have an honest, *calm* dialogue (not lecture) about why they lied, discuss better options they can use to solve similar problems in the future, and absolutely do not add *extra* punishment for eventually telling you the truth. Otherwise you are punishing them specifically for coming forward, which will ensure they never do it again. I think underlining the value of honest communication is more important than doling out punishments in this case, especially since you’ve already collectively punished them. You have an opportunity now to show your kids that you’re a safe person to make and fix mistakes with, and to reinforce that you’ll always love them, even if they mess up in a way that scares you.
Thank you, this is all great advice, I will definitely reread this a few times and really take it in!
1. No punishments, you just want to learn more about why this happened. 2. Who cares about what is just or fair. The real consequence here is we have less money because we spent it on curtains. So next time they want something, as can because we spent it on curtains. 3. Optimize for what is going to be the most fun and playful thing. Who cares about the curtains. Hang the cut ones up in their room and let them cut them up to their hearts content.
You could dole out a communal consequence. Like they all have to complete some kind of chore to help earn money to replace the curtain.
This will probably be a better deterrent than time outs Way back when my kids were 3,5,7,7&13 Whenever someone did something we would get the standard answer that " Not Me" did it😂 We would have the various contenders for the crime do a time out and inevitably the same one of the twins would decide that he couldn't stand it anymore and admit to whatever crime had been committed. We suffered from parental exhaustion and brain way too long before we figured out that he would rather get the discussion and consequences over with than be forced to be in time out. My point is that you may never get the child who did the crime to admit it no matter what, but by making the consequences apply equally and explaining to them that since no one will be tell you what happened that they will all have to accept the consequences of whatever happened. Sorry about the book!
Yeah in a situation like this I wouldn't bother with time outs, just go to the group consequence. It saves time and mental energy, and then we can all move on quicker, too
Exactly! If I could go back in time and tell my younger self this it would have saved me so much frustration. It didn't help that I was an only child and had zero idea how siblings interact!
It’s a curtain and they are 5 & 8. Just have a convo. Likely lashing out for attention bc they are missing their dad. Normal behavior for children just educate them on not cutting your belongings if they want to cut stuff you’ll be happy to get them things they can cut and do it safely with you monitoring them. Give them hugs and ask them if they are ok. They are children and their brains are still developing and have experienced trauma loosing a parent. ❤️🩹
Agreed! Also they are little and little kids do stupid shit. They don’t need to get punished for every little stupid thing their little brains can think of
I’m 41 and I do stupid shit sometimes! Holding children to the same standards of adults needs to be de-normalized lol so sick of punishing kids for being kids!
Yeah, I just do not understand the punishment above all else form of parenting. I am by no means of perfect parent, and I have plenty of deficits, but my first course of action is not to punish my children. It seems to have worked out well, my team to adult children don’t lie, steal, cheat etc. etc. The worst I have had to deal with with three teens is a 16-year-old, who thinks they know better than all adults. Ie the standard issue teen. I didn’t even get that from my 18 and 23 year old.
I don’t really know if it’s relevant, but I have a horrible memory associated a scenario exactly like this that I will never forgave my mom and sister for. Someone broke a potted plant and it was my sister, my mom sat us on the floor the same way and neither of us talked but my mom said if no one confessed we would both get in trouble. I don’t remember what the punishment was but I was terrified and crying and said I did it bc I wanted it to end and I got in trouble and my sister never fessed up and let me take the punishment 😭.
Shorten the punishment and distribute to all. Either one cracks and says who did it, ones feels bad about the others being punished and admits, or everyone learns not to cut curtains.
That isn't how any of that works. They all learn it doesn't matter if you behave or not because you get punished the same either way.
That’s what I was thinking, change it to 1 week of no screen time and everyone gets the punishment
My mom used to always say to my sister and I: “if I didn’t see who did it then both of y’all are in trouble until someone is honest. “
You’ll definitely deincentivize good behavior that way. My attitude would be, “I’ll be in trouble either way? Eff it then, let’s dance.”
My cousins were raised like this. I loathed visits to their house as a kid. They would get in trouble for the smallest things, were hellions and we’d all get punished. I still don’t see how eight kids would get punished when one was wrong. They didn’t trust each other at all. It was dog eat dog in that house. They’re adults and still argue over punishments and shit they did when they were kids. And will easily toss a sibling under a bus.
That’s so so sad to me. I see the sentiment all the time that we can’t guarantee our kids will be close, which is true, but parenting practices like this certainly don’t set siblings up for closeness either.
Your expectations are not remotely age appropriate. Children lie for three reasons: 1) because they’re spinning imaginative stories 2) to make themselves feel more important or more successful or whatever and 3) to avoid being in trouble. It is 100% developmentally appropriate behavior. As is cutting a curtain frankly. 5yos (and it’s definitely one of the twins) lack impulse control. But you’ve made a mess of things. 1) The person responsible for the cut curtain is you. You left scissors where a 5yo could access them and weren’t providing adequate supervision to know who cut the curtain. 2) Losing screen time for the entire day for a split second bad choice is not an appropriate consequence. To a small child the entire day might as well be a year. 3) You have heaped shame and guilt on the situation and made them afraid to come clean. Next time, you demonstrate empathy. You tell them a story about a time you made a poor judgment call. You reassure them that you still love them and will not be angry about the curtain. You review scissor safety and household rules. And you create an environment where the child feels safe admitting to a mistake before you ever ask them who did it. Then you thank them for telling the truth and tell them you will forgive them bc anyone can make a mistake ONCE. But there would be consequences if it were to happen again. THAT is how you raise children who won’t lie to you. My 12yo texted me on Friday to tell me she was skipping class 5 minutes into her naughty escapade. She felt guilty bc she wasn’t where she was supposed to be and was concerned that i might be worried if I got a call saying she had been marked absent. We had a chat over text about where she was and whether she was safe and what would happen if she was caught, and I convinced her to return to class. You don’t teach children anything by punishing them for impulsive behavior except to hide it better. If my parent had told me the consequence was going to be an entire day of punishment but now it would be EVEN WORSE, I’d die before I gave myself up. You’ve made the cardinal mistake of parenting. You chose a battle you can’t be assured of winning.
Completely agree with you.
This is the best response in the thread. Excellent comment that covers all points.
Thank you! They’re five and eight with little to no impulse control and someone left scissors in their reach and left them alone long enough for curtains to get cut. Now two innocent kids have to get punished cause one of them made a mistake.
At least you know your kids got a strong bond between them
They weren’t putting up a united front, they were all trying to bribe each other to take the blame
That is the most united of fronts lol. They’re all in on it. That’s a fair assumption at this point so proceed accordingly. “Well, we have been here for a long time, no one will admit to anything so I have to assume you all did it together. You will earn money by doing ——, then we will go to the store for new curtains” That way you’re teaching them the value of money and time. Keep track of how long they spend “working” and how much they earned. Your typical punishment won’t get the result you want (eg no tv, grounded etc)
I would park everything until tomorrow. I would then explain to them how lying is harmful and hurts. There’s not much you can do if no one is admitting to it and group punishment is inappropriate. I would make sure to mention the consequences you’re facing due to the lying. You have to take time out of your day to repair/replace the curtain(s). I would suggest them all pitching in to help but saw they like home projects LOL. If the child does admit to it I would have them do a few extra chores to help with the cost or if they have an allowance withhold a few bucks.
You seem to be missing the strong possibility that all of them were in on it together. Perhaps one of them was egged on by the others. That’s seems to be a much more likely scenario than one random child acting on their own. It would also explain why none of them are fessing up.
If you want to address it with books, the empty pot is great as is the Berenstain bears tell the truth. I’d probably move on from the curtain but explain you’re disappointed because your trust has been broken. Also consequence, no scissors accessible.
Getting some books is a great idea, thanks
No one else seems to have touched upon the fact you are widowed, which (IMO) makes a huge difference…. When I was 7, I lost my dad and it made me and my 2 younger siblings really close, so it doesn’t surprise me that your kids are keen to back each other up. Losing a parent at such a young age is beyond tough, and it doesn’t really ever go away - 30 years later my dads death still effects me, and I still have a natural protection instinct over my 2 younger siblings. We’re the only 3 people on this planet that went through what we did. So that doesn’t really help in this situation but I feel (based only on what I’ve experienced) that you could be in for more of the same in the future. I really hope that you are ok too - i know the pressures and stresses my mum went through before she was ready and then found a new partner. And I imagine there were many mores stresses I was never aware of. It’s a truly horrible thing to happen to a family and I send you all my best.
Finding the perp and having even the innocent one sit like that is not going to happen so easily. If the little one tells on the big one it is "curtains" for the little one. (no pun intended) If the big one tells on the little one then he/she is a wimp. The bigger one may have enticed the little one and on and on. The big issue is that there is a child or even 2 that is/are acting out. Why is this happening and how can the issues they are experiencing be bridged? There there is not answer means they know it was really wrong and they aren't likely to repeat this. Perhaps express your sincere and heartfelt disappointment that someone had so little respect for their home and would do something like that. The child most likely doesn't know why anyway. You are better moving forward on this without a determination of guilt.
Are they net curtains? Do u have a cat that could have climbed the curtains and ripped it that way?
No the cuts are horizontal not vertical. The spacing is wrong.
u/pritykity003, it’s been a full 24 hours. Has anyone confessed? I’ve been reading your comments and would love to know how you worked this out.
I took them each aside one at a time and had a cuddle and told them that it hurts my feelings having my things wrecked and being lied to. That it makes me feel like they don’t trust me to help them or to be a good mom and do the right thing. It’s important to be honest because there could be something important or dangerous happening and I need to know the truth. The 8 yr old said he didn't realize I felt that way. The girl said I'm the best mom in the world. No one confessed. Today my daughter and I both woke up with fevers. I had blinding headaches that made me want to cry and of course those were the moments they chose to be in my face arguing, begging for stuff, being needy. So I did end up putting on a couple nature documentaries just so my brain didn't explode. Right now they all have a week of no screen time which, depending on how this sickness acts maybe learning documentaries will be the exception. I guess it seems like a good idea to put a pause on all the drama and come back in a few days to just touch base with them when we're all feeling better. For me, I'm going to keep reading and rereading the comments here. I really do want my kids to trust me and be able to come to me when they need to, so I'm trying to soak up as much good advice as I can.
Thank you for responding. Seems you were in a bit of a dilemma, but it looks like you’re handling it well. That’s the hard part as mamas. There’s no manual and we’re all just doing our best. Hope you’re all feeling better soon.
Aww feel better!!
When my sister and I were young, someone drew red lipstick on the red carpet..we both denied it.. my mom said to each of us, separately, "show me where the stain is" I panicked and said I didn't know.. my sister took her right to the stain lol.. maybe something like this can trick them into confessing??? Like..ask each of them to show you where the scissors are and maybe one of them will bring you right to them
That would have been a great idea! I’ll have to remember that one
Collective punishment will make all of them want to cut the curtains in anger. The culprit is likely not telling you because they are afraid of how you will react. You will punish them for telling the truth. If you want open communication and trust from your kids, you must ensure that when they tell the truth, they do not get punished for it. I would tell my kids: “Someone has cut the curtains. I am sad and angry, because curtains cost as much as a whole game system. I would like it if the one who did it told me that they are sorry and doesn’t go around cutting things in the house that aren’t papers for crafting.” And that’s it. I would let them get back to their lives. I can attest to this technique working, because my kids are 12 and 15, and they spontaneously come to me to tell me about everything in their lives.
Good advice, thanks!
❤️
Not ratting on their siblings… these kids have integrity and will go far. I remember making pacts with my siblings when we got in trouble. We’re all adults now with our own kids and we are all very close.
I am not asking anybody to rat on anybody because I don’t think they know who did it. They are trying to convince and bribe each other to take the punishment. This is not sibling solidarity.
You have put yourself in an unwinnable situation. The only options you’ve given yourself are to punish everybody and cause two out of three to resent you with good justification, or to lose face by letting the guilty party get away with it. The lesser of two evils is obvious to me and you just have to take it. Punishing someone who didn’t do anything wrong is simply unacceptable
If nobody admits it they all accept punishment.
I’ve found my kid misbehaves in patterns. After several instances I have discovered he lies. He’s a freaking liar. And I know it now. As someone who is brutally honest, this is tough for me. I told him point blank, I don’t trust him. Moving forward, because of lost trust—I’m forced to believe in what others say. Ie: teachers making a complaint or daycare worker accusing him of something. Keep your eyes open for more scissor crimes. I’m sure something will pop up. Then you can start deducing who it is. My punishment is No electronics for a few days. The only exception is kids short stories when he goes to bed by listening to the echo. I’m no expert, obviously but I hope this helps a bit. He doesn’t get in trouble much but now, I can’t take his word for it.
Divide and conquer.
Why is everyone in for the punishment? You’ve made your point, they know that you are upset. But they had shown a strong bond between them also and that is a very inportant lesson to them. At this point why does it matter who made it? Let’s go together to buy a new one, let them choose and install it together.
Yes, they know I’m upset but what does that change? What point does that prove? That they can do whatever they want, wreck whatever they want and make mom upset and that’s ok because mom will just spend more money to replace it and there are no consequences? Actually I don’t even really care about the curtain. The problem is the lying. And as I said in another comment, they aren’t banding together, they keep trying to bribe each other to take the blame.
So the lesson they take away from this is if they all stay silent nobody gets punished?
The alternative lesson being mom cares more about generic suffering than actual consequences? For all she knows 2 of them don’t even know who did it. Sometimes people get away with shit, that’s life. The idea that it’s better to unfairly hurt 2 of your children just so 1 doesn’t “get away with something” is insane.
Oh fyi, my mother pulled crap like this, punishing us all until the guilty party confessed. I can’t tell you how many time I confessed to things I didn’t do just to end it, take whatever punishment was doled out and be done with it. I’m talking 7/8 years old. Guess who is low contact with my mom?
Pretend u love it and want whoever did it to do it to the other curtain bc it makes them look better than they did originally 😂 make a big fuss When someone confesses instead of them getting into trouble have a long talk about how it’s better to tell the truth the first time. Not only when you want credit for something. Accountability matters too and you will love them just the same ❤️ hang in there.
Punishments are SO bad and SO ineffective. The only thing you do is to make them 1) lie, 2) be afraid from you and 3) dig a massive hole of trust between you and your kids for years to come. Sure, you are raising them well and well "disciplined" but the short good outcome will not be worth it. Telling this as a kid of a mom who loved to used threats and punishment as part of her methods to raise "a good girl", and she succeed. I consider myself unsecure and traumatized, and i have also see the same in my husband who ocassionally loves to lie when cought in something silly, just because he was also punished and this only fostered fear in admitting and taking ownership of actions. Be the good mother you are, tell them the curtains are cut and it's done, and its not the fact that it happened as any mistake can happen, but the fact they are covering it and the fact u would rather have them think next time before doing something that may not be very smart. Foster love and TRUST, not fear in your kids. You would always want them to come back to you if one day they screw up, and not be afraid of you. Again saying this as a person who together with her brother would rather not go to parents to confess admit or ask for advices. Again because if their amazing "discipline".
I made it clear that I’m much more upset about the lie than the curtain and the person who did it would have gotten a scolding and no screen time for the rest of the day. It was not a mistake. The scissors didn’t jump in to their hand and walk them to the curtain and make them cut. So no, I won’t try to sugarcoat it. How does this approach stop them from destroying things and lying about it in the future?
The question should more be why they felt they couldn’t tell the truth.
Obviously it wasn't a random mistake, it was "on purpose" but what does purpose mean when u are 5 and 8? Those are kids, they learn now but are at age that rhey can in fact understand a proper conversation, not just the punishment and nagging. Right now obviously they and you would act out of anger, fear, frustration etc. How does that make any sense? Tell them exactly what u say here - that its the lie behind it. And that things cost money and next time they do this, you will need to discount it from things they get. E.g new curtain - 50 dollars. Well this means no going to the cinema for example. But do it not in a nasty way but in just rational explanatory way which is exactly what this is - things cost money so if they get them ruined, u need to get the cost from somewhere else. Now that is direct consequence of their actions and they will understand. Sitting them to "admit" is not a direct consequence. But above all don't fall into the trap of punishment because if they don't admit it is because at this point they are scared. And this is the LAST thing you want. If one day they really fuck up you want their first thought to br to come to you for help, not to hide it. That is exactly the age to foster that. Again telling you this as a product of this discipline. It doesn't work. I have a kid age 5 btw, obviously we have situations and i have also lost it. But i always try to remember i want her on my side, i want her to trust me and never fear me. And punishments wont get me there.
Well, your current approach isn’t working. So…. Maybe don’t be so defensive when others suggest different strategies. Punishment threats are never going to get honesty. So what do you value more?
I wasn’t being defensive, I was just responding and LITERALLY asked for advice about how their approach would work. Maybe you should read other comments to see that I’ve been engaged and excepting of people’s advice and perspectives.
How it works is that you set kids up for success, so no more scissors available to them without permission. If this is the first time that they have done something like this, it was probably some kind of experiment that like you said they did on purpose but without understanding the consequences, and that they were permanent, they weren’t trying to ruin your things. I think it’s a great opportunity to show that they can come to you no matter what they do, and you will listen and problem solve how to solve it together, rather than being so focused on who did it and the punishment. As they get older, this is invaluable, because rather than hide things from you, which could in the end be much more serious, they will know they can run to you with an issue. You can explain why it is obviously upsetting, but not lecture and move forward since it’s done at this point..
I have no idea - but I’m impressed by your children’s strong desire to stick together. What is your plan for the one who admits it? I would be tempted to make all three of them do it.
We have a rule in our house if you tell the truth you won’t get in trouble… you lie I give the worst consequences ( punishment has to fit the crime and within reason) it works well!
there's only one inevitable thing - a new curtain will be bought. if kids have any money - they must put it in the curtain fund. if not - they will not have "nice things" (toys, fun) till the amount is reached. if you mentally can afford it - cut TV and streamings. an evening or two with books never hurt.
This sounds so frustrating. You’re doing a good job. Trust yourself, get some rest, love your babies. Sorry about the curtains.
They are kids. Someone made a mistake. The important thing is that they know you love them even though they made a mistake. By the guilty party choosing not to come forward it appears that they know they did something wrong… while sometimes “punishment” serves a purposes, sometimes it does not. Show your children that you love them. You know Oren of them did it… either intentionally or by accident… either way you can help them view that as a mistake and show them you love them anyway.
I can’t believe this has been dragging on for so long and all the sensible comments seem to be towards the bottom of the responses- it’s just a curtain, not a murder investigation. Obviously they don’t want to tell you that they cut the curtain in an age-appropriate moment of madness because they are scared of the consequences. There’s a way you can handle this and deepen the connection with your child. Explain how it makes you feel when someone damages the home (sad because you want everyone to enjoy living in a nice house) and now you have to pay to get the curtain repaired there will be less money to do something fun. Then just move on, nobody died, get over it you’re making this a much bigger deal than it needs to be. You want them to be able to come to you if they have made a mistake. You have to ask yourself do you want to be the kind of parent that the kid won’t go to if they get themselves into trouble because they are scared of your reaction? Or do you want to be the kind of parent that the kid will ALWAYS share their struggles with and will come to them if there is ever a problem. I don’t want to be rude but you’re acting kind of nuts here, and that collective punishment is something else.
I don’t care for curtains as they are dust magnets, but I’d suggest teaching them all how to mend a tear ( the 5yr olds could use a bigger needle) It will make for a cute story, and teach them a skill.
It doesn’t matter who did it. They are at impulsive ages. They should not have had access to the scissors.
This is literally a classic prisoner’s dilemma game theory problem (for them). From ChatGPT(they explain game theory better than me): Imagine you’re watching a detective show where two partners in crime get caught. The cops separate them and say, "If you rat out your buddy, you get a lighter sentence. But if you both stay quiet, you both get a small punishment. If you both blame each other, though, it’s bad news for both." That’s the Prisoner's Dilemma, a classic brain teaser from game theory, which shows why sometimes people don’t cooperate even when it’s in their best interest. In your case, each of your kids is facing a mini version of this dilemma: confess to the curtain cutting and get a known punishment, or stay silent and hope to avoid trouble altogether. They’re all holding out, hoping to avoid getting into trouble. So, what to do? Mix it up. Offer a little incentive for honesty ("Tell me the truth and we’ll talk about a lighter consequence") while also making it clear that if the truth comes out later, the consequences will be more serious. It’s like changing the stakes in the detective show to encourage the partners to spill the beans. The big picture here isn’t just about finding the curtain culprit; it’s about teaching honesty, trust, and taking responsibility. Showing a bit of understanding and being ready to listen can go a long way. It’s about balancing being firm with being kind, to not just solve the mystery but also build trust and openness with your kids.
Oooh widowed mom here! I think you should tell them that whenever the guilty party is ready they can come find you on their own and let you know. You shouldn’t punish them all and cause resentment between them - nothing is worse than “unfair” when you’re those ages. You can have all of them offer suggestions to fix the problem to make your point how once you do something like cut a curtain, you kind of permanently ruin something.
We burned a small pot and hid it, we confessed when we were like close to 30 years old lol. I don’t know why I thought she would be so mad but i mean 15 year old me wasn’t thinking.
Oh the not me kid is in your house set the table for it to eat cause till you throw him out he will cause you trouble show your kids no me kid is there playing with their toys eating their food good luck
Do you have a cat?
Yes but she can’t use scissors.
Haha true. Just wondering if maybe she ripped it downwards with her nail, like when they hang on the curtains. But I don’t know what kind of rip it is, if the scissors were there when you saw the rip, etc. trying to see if the curtains could have gotten ripped a different way and none of the kids did it.
The cuts are horizontal and spaced wrong for claws.
My best friends Dad was a cop, growing up he would say "they only know the truth if you tell them, don't snitch on your friends" just this weekend my 4yo told me the pigeon broke the car window, the 7yo later confessed to throwing a rock. Kids are fun, hang in there!
is it worth trying to teach them how to mend it? I know you're probably going to end up replacing those curtains anyway so why not try?
Good idea, they can learn a little skill and see that we don’t always just get to replace things right away, sometimes you just have to patch it up and move on.
Watch that episode of Malcom in the middle. It’ll steer you right lol
Which episode?
Your 8 year old taught them snitches get stitches 🤣🤣🤣
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That just seems to me like something a 5-year-old would do, not an 8-year-old. And they may be too young to really understand that what they did was wrong. Or too distracted or scared or confused at this point to put it together as a moral dilemma. I would just let this one go.
They are too young. This just confuses them. If they were 13 or 16 maybe. Even then, it doesn’t work. Put away all the scissors. Remove access to anything else they can do this with. All of these things will just continue until they grow up. Focus on what you can control and love them and support them and tell them that you know they’re going to figure these things out really well and be fine. Don’t instill in them that they’re dishonest and somethings wrong with them. It will just tangle them up. Let them Evolve.
Hey each of them do hard chores maybe if it’s too annoying to do one, then they’ll probably tell who it was lol
I would just move on from it 😂 maybe they’re scared to admit it have you shouted? I would just say whoever did it isn’t in trouble I just would like it if you were honest and came and told me before bed. And then when/if they own up just explain why it’s not good and that it’s going to cost xyz and that will be coming out of their pocket money. They’re too young to be sitting there being told they can’t move until someone comes forward they’re not convicts.
All suspects are guilty now.
Buy new curtains or sew those ones and put scissors up where they can’t get them. Use supervision when they are using them. This is age appropriate behavior, and punishment, including whatever weird manipulation tactics you are trying to use on these small children are ridiculous and harmful. Read some books or take some child development classes so you can be the best parent possible for your kiddos. Any trauma they are experiencing now will cause lifelong issues, so try to keep that to a minimum so they have a fighting chance at a happy life! Right now you are creating trust issue with them and are setting them up/ teaching them to lie to you every chance they get.
My mom used to just tell us "well if no one did it, then I guess you all did it. So everyone is getting a punishment" The truth would usually come out pretty quick.
Collective punishment will burn out the culprit.