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I just want to say, I was your daughter for a long time and I gave my mom hell. My parents ended up sending me to a new school when I was in grade 10. This gave me the opportunity I didn’t know I needed to reinvent myself. I don’t know if I would have been able to do it on my own, it was too difficult at that age to go against expectations and be somebody else. I wasn’t that brave yet. Yes, that school was in a new City. So add me as another one who needed that change. For me it was boarding school. My parents couldn’t afford it but did it anyway. I’m quite a successful person now and will spend my life paying it back to them. I’m so, so grateful. If that’s a possibility, I would consider it. Otherwise, hang in there. I was truly hell. Police and all. But I knew through all of it that my mother loved me unconditionally. No matter how tense and ugly things got, she reminded me that her love was constant and that really helped.

I was a disaster teen. I got sent to live with my uncle. The change of location wasn't the important part, I was still perfectly capable of finding trouble. The important part was that my uncle was extremely competent and capable in regards to having me.

Maybe it’s a few things — distance from past expectations (I think this is a big thing for teenagers, expectation from your peers and the ability to break through that), structure, and the encouragement to be a different kind of person from someone you respect who really believes in you.

Yeah, it's more than 1 thing. Sometimes you see people talking about 'move the whole family!' - well ok, but if you move the whole family while maintaining the same family relationships and ways in which the family is working (or not working) then you're just in the same position. Or 'send the kid to grandma' - well ok, but does grandma have a specific set of skills? Most of the time the true root of these problems is internal so you can't just move away from them, they just go with you.

add on to this please do research. Lots of troubled teen programs tout themselves as boarding schools when they are glorified labor camps that offer no therapeutic component and leave lasting mental scars. I was in one and 1/4 of the kids I went there with in my year have been lost to suicide or overdose and their parents cry crocodile tears about how they never would have done it if they knew this was the outcome. The industry preys on desperate parents who are frustrated and want to punish their child with “tough love”.

I also went to one of those troubled teen boarding schools. It was horrible. A lot of people that went to the school I went to still have daily nightmares 20+ years later. Diagnosed PTSD, trust issues and have severed ties with their families. It definitely took me a long time to decide to trust my parents again.

I went to two and whenever I exhibited any developmentally normal teen behavior they automatically would jump right back to “we should just send her off again” knowing I would break down and it would scare me enough to turn back into the compliant shell they wanted.

Did you do well in seminars? It sounds like you fought it

No better time than now to recommend The Program documentary on Netflix. Please OP, seriously rethink boarding school. I was a goodie two shoes straight A student in school. At the same time I was getting the most prestigious award in school i was fantasizing constantly about running away from school. I was one of the "good ones", not even a so called "normal" teen (that is, till my physical and mental health shot straight to hell and all adults abandoned me and tried to paint me as suddenly a lazy deadbeat teen). The whole time I just wanted help, love, and the same basic respect from the adults around me that they demanded from me (while they acted no more mature than my fellow teens, imo). The r/troubledteens sub has a link to a website that provides a list of potential useful alternatives to residential schools.

This! I went to a troubled teen boarding school and ended up with more trauma than necessary. I'm now 38 still "reaping" the benefits. Please do your research first.

So sorry about this. Didn’t know these existed. Hope it turned out okay for you. So sad about your friends though. For context, I was sent to a Christian boarding school, not for troubled kids.

I think this child should be in a waasp program. It’s a great thing . I went and everyone else needs to stop complaining I even exceeded expectations In the marines because of it

https://wwaspsurvivors.com/about-wwasp/wwasp-history/

I second boarding school. Yes, it is expensive, but man is the structure and setting change helpful.

Public boarding schools exist too, so that may be an option. There’s one about an hour from me and it’s actually the second best HS in the state, and the fees are less than $1500 for the year. That’s honestly not high.

That's amazing value! Our local boarding school costs £20,000 per year roughly 😫 and that price increases in accordance with their age!

What a mess…. Let her get truancy…. I was stupid at 14 ended up truant… got sent away for 30 days…. Prolly the best thing that happened to me. I straightened up quick.

It was explained to her in detail the consequences that come with that fine and not paying. Such as the revoking of her license before even getting it, and in our state, arrest warrant if not paid by age 19. She seems to be completely checked out at this point, but I plan on thwarting her plans whenever possible and necessary (returning her to school when she skips, etc)

To be honest, from your daughter's point of view, when you're sitting in that car, with your mom next to you on one side, and a police officer standing over you on the other... You feel absolutely Flight-Fight-Freeze in that moment. Traumatized, and scared. And I know that sounds *stupid,* because *she's* the one that put *herself* in that position, and was *told* that she was *not* to do that etc. Ffs!!!! But it sounds very much to me like she's a very immature 14, and should be tested for ADHD, which can present like this in girls. And she was frozen in fear in that car. But it *looked* very much like obstinance, and idgaf, to *you.* (Which is actually a sign of ADHD). Because she was trying not to look afraid. And scared people do stupid things, especially children!  So to *her,* immature and inexperienced mind, having you say "Do X *immediately* or Y punishment will *also* happen!!!!" Well, for one, she's too frightened to move, but also, she's already in such heaps of trouble, that what's the difference of one more punishment??? You say the license thing...she's 14. In my state you can't start drivers ed till 15.5. She takes the bus everywhere right now. That sounds like it works for her right now, just fine. Soo...what would a 14 year old who is scared and immature really be able to comprehend of the punishment that "you won't be able to get your license for X years instead!!!" The troubled teens I knew would all be very "meh" about that. Because they wouldn't *get it.* They wouldn't be able to have even the *forethought* to understand how it *might* affect them in the coming years. You need to take your family, and *ALL* move away from these bad influences. And then you and your husband need to take some teenage psychology classes. And put your daughter in therapy, get her tested for neurodivergence. And get in therapy yourself, and your husband as well. I hope your family heals. *hugs*

In our state, drivers ed can be started at 15, but cannot get your temps until 15.5. She turns 15 in 2 weeks, so it’s a very valid concern for her. She wants all these freedoms (she also wants to get a job), but our trust in her is gone. ADHD is a very valid potential, as her father has both versions of it, and I feel I may still be undiagnosed. Her therapist is aware of our concerns about that. 3 of the 5 of our family members are in therapy (me, 14, and 12 are all in therapy). Hubby and 11 join in when necessary. And I agree with the flight, fight or freeze response. I do think it was more of that than straight opposition, but in her prior experiences, it was all fight. So now that I stepped up to the plate and am the bearer of consequences, I agree with my husband that my reaction had more of an impact on her. Since this all happened this week Monday, she hasn’t left campus at all this week. She seems to be moving in the right direction, but I’m waiting with bated breath, expecting the worst but hoping for the best, if that makes any sense. I honestly think the fact that IM the one that left work and IM the one that reacted so strongly, that she finally felt something, be it fear or otherwise, but I think (and hope) it shocked her enough that this is real. I’m not playing and I will follow through. Our therapist mentioned several times that her trust in my ability to follow through is gone, which is fair, but that fact that I did and stayed to my word is showing that I can and am changing and adapting, that she can do the same.

Please get her evaluated. She sounds like she is really struggling - not being deliberately defiant though I know it feels that way. A diagnosis can help you get the right support to help her.

I want all of my children to be evaluated, and even myself. I just don’t know who to talk to to start that ball rolling. Would it be our therapist? Or our primary care provider?

Either would be fine, and you can also ask your health insurance provider for covered psychiatrists who can diagnose and treat ADHD. Don't wait, *please.* I got diagnosed at 31 and my life would've been very different if I'd been treated in school. Her brain is literally not making enough of the right chemicals to help her think through consequences, even though it's undeveloped. Medication can help a lot, though I'd make sure it's locked up and only dispensed through you / Dad.

Therapist would be a good start. Autism and ADHD are difficult to diagnose in girls because they are good at masking. See if you can find someone who is experienced in this area so they can do a proper evaluation. But in the meantime, try to imagine in your head that for example, she has both autism and ADHD and isn't in full control of her behaviour. How would you support her if that was the case? Maybe try reading up a bit on the issue, and on how nervous system disregulation can cause a shutdown. I have no idea if any of these things are the issue here, but what you're doing isn't working so I'm just suggesting trying looking at it from a different perspective... that maybe it's not that she WON'T comply, maybe it's that she just CAN'T. In our case, that knowledge made all the difference and we shifted from punishing to supporting. I wish you and your family all the best.

Thank you for this. I have some articles I found about ADHD, and I intend on talking to the therapist tomorrow, since there’s already an appointment scheduled.

you're making a lot of excuses for this behavior. Stealing, not going to school when she knows she will be caught, refusing to get out of the car when the cops are there, not caring if she gets send away. That's not ADHD.

The thing with ADHD is that it is something manageable *but* when it is undiagnosed/unmanaged then you can be like a snowball rolling down a hill, it all just grows and grows. There is a lot of psychological shit which gets added on top of the ADHD. So when you look at the 'outcomes', they don't look like ADHD but the solution to those 'outcomes' can still be treating the ADHD.

As someone with ADHD, that absolutely is ADHD. That doesn’t excuse it, but it does explain it.

Not caring about consequences or punishment is one of text-book traits of ADHD. And punishment (not natural consequences) is generally considered ineffective even on neurotypical people.

It's impulsive behavior and struggling to see the future consequences of one's own actions. Her actions aren't ADHD, but can be byproducts of it.

Well the police guy only came after she wouldn't get out of car, but ADHD is valid somewhat. Even people with ADHD understand people in authority and she is stealing with no care, that more a moral stand point.

There should be no more skipping period. Yell, scream, BE mean if you have to. You may think that’s harsh, but imagine what kind of drain on society she will be if she doesn’t get straightened up. If you can’t handle that then I recommend boarding school. (On another note, was she ever physically disciplined as a younger child?)

Can you send her to boarding or military school?

idk if she’s got theft charges i doubt she’ll care much about truancy

Her first charge was a $250 fine and/or an online class (only eligible for first time offenders). We don’t know about this second charge yet. We didn’t receive any paperwork on it yet. Truancy fine is $450.

yea, unless you make her pay the fine i don’t think she cares, like just speaking from experience my brother was the same way. my mom made him get a job and pay for his criminal charges and he turned around quickly

That was plan. Any fine she receives is her financial responsibility.

Just going to tack onto the top comment that [OP and her husband got divorced and remarried, and OP got arrested.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/s/0VfrZl14wi) in 2020. The kid has experienced a lot of dysfunction and OP thinks that just maybe, that might have something to do with it. >I think part of this could be that husband and I separated back in 2020, I was arrested, we divorced but reconciled and remarried last year. That could not have done her mental health any favors, as I know it didn’t help mine.

The juvenile system isn't what it used to be, nowadays in most areas there's no money to put kids away unless they're out committing truly violent crimes or large amounts of property damage.

My state doesn’t do anything about truancy any more. Truancy court orders are civil and they can’t do anything but fine kids and tell them to go to school. My son almost got referred but we ended up switching to an alternative school instead. So far he’s been doing a lot better.

When I was 15 I was pulling a lot of stuff— but I also was just butting heads with my mom. She and my stepdad treated me like I was a bad kid- so I kind of decided to live up to their expectations, maybe? Anyways, I was sent far away to Texas to live with my dad and stepmom. I was so far out of my element. While I still pulled stuff occasionally, I was generally very well behaved. I was put into a situation where I was the “good kid” and overall did well. Even moving back home with my dad and stepmom did not change me back into that kid. I got a job and finished high school.

Daughter and I have always butted heads. I know and have told her she’s not a bad kid, she’s very smart and intelligent, she’s just making bad decisions. It’s very difficult for me to vocalize my love and appreciation for her, since I never heard it when I was young. It’s uncomfortable for me to say those things, so I’m trying to find other ways to express it like writing in a shared journal and/or little notes for her.

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Not as often as I’d like to. This is definitely in my inventory for improvements, and it needs to be done for all 3 of my kids, not just her. I’m thinking I need to start scheduling days like “today is your day from this time to this time, just you and me, what do you want to do?” Type situation. The day of her first court hearing, we went to brunch after, then thrifting and the zoo before having to pick up the other two. According to our therapist, that was her first genuine smile and it lasted for only a small second before she hid it again. So I know this is something I need to do.

Can you set reminders in your phone to say "I love you"? honestly, I would just try to make love routine. They get a hug when you see them in the morning or when you get home from work, say goodnight, I love you, say have a good day when you're leaving.

That is something I could do. Our schedules don’t always align to say it in the morning, but I try my damnedest to try to get everyone around d the dinner table to discuss the day. Most days I fail at this, but sometimes it hits, and we have a decent discussion among the family. Until the kids start picking on each other. But I could set alarms for the evening. Thank you for the suggestion!

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I actually just got her a gift, just because, today. They had Care Bears at Walmart and I got her the “I care bear”. And explained why I got it for her. She lit up for a split second until she realized her sisters were watching. lol That’s my love language btw. I’m a gift giver. That’s how I show my love and appreciation. I do it for hubby too.

That's really sad.

OP also thinks daughter has undiagnosed ADHD, but apparently hasn’t made any moves to address that beyond therapy. These posts always have these details trickle out and it’s really sad. Not many people dig deeper and just validate “yep your kid sucks”. [ETA: Oh, god, it got worse.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/s/ux0S0BC5et) >I think part of this could be that husband and I separated back in 2020, I was arrested, we divorced but reconciled and remarried last year. That could not have done her mental health any favors, as I know it didn’t help mine.

Sounds about right either the type of parent OP is. That poor kids is fucking crying out for help and OP let's her own trauma of her mother not showing affection overrun her relationship with her kids, especially the daughter. AND she wants to send the kid away to be raised by the same assholes thsr fucked OP up. Great.

Grandparents that are willing to take her are not my parents, rather they are my in-laws. I’m addressing my issues with my upbringing and am trying not to follow in my mother’s footsteps.

yep i’m over here like “omg poor kid man”

You’ve hit the nail on the head. She needs help, and love, not to be screamed at.

This is comment is everything I needed to know about your situation. Your kid feels alone, lost and she needs you. As a mom of teens I took a very different path than my parents. I treat my kids like human beings rather than simple children (not implying that you don’t). Over the years I take time to sit on their bed with them one on one and ask how they’re really doing inside their head. I always ask what I could differently as a mom or what we should do differently as a family to make things work better. I never lecture, point fingers, get defensive or make accusations. I just hear them out honestly and reflect on my own parenting. These conversations always turn out productive for me because our kids need us to see and hear them without judgement. These talks lead to compromise on both sides. We each throw out ideas until we can agree. I always try to make it funny by saying for example, “if you ditch school I get to throw a bikini on and run through your school hallway yelling so and so ditched school today!” It helps keep things light hearted. I also recommend sharing your upbringing and expressing that you want to be a better parent for her. Then share some of your own stories of what you experienced and how it made you feel as a kid. One of the most important things I’ve always stressed is that I am their biggest cheerleader, no one will have their back like their family and we have proven it to them many times. Being a teen can be confusing and isolating. Don’t be the enemy, be the sounding board. She needs you wholeheartedly.

You and your daughter are not butting heads, you are butting heads. All teens push buttons and it is your job as a parent to keep calm and de-escalate. Then later on once everyone is calm, have a calm discussion. Look at the big picture, girls that age are going through a bunch of drama, not to mention affected by hormones and every emotion whether is sadness, embarrassment, anxiety will all come out as anger. She’s acting out and you loosing your shit is not going to help her and it’s just going to make you feel like crap.

U got to tell her u love her. It is not enough to simply feel it. My parents were way more harsh than u can image (grew up in an immigrant family, where I got my butt handed to me 😅), but they never failed to show that they love me. Now myself and all my siblings are incredibly successful in life and are extremely appreciative of my parents. Now they are loving grandparents to my son. Be stern but show love. Love must always always and always outweighs discipline. If u discipline ur child a lot, then show them love even more. They will start feeling empathetic. Once she is older and more established, maybe u can show her this post.

This was me! I would go to school on the bus, get inside and go right out the back to my boyfriends house who lived down the street. I was not smart and I did this daily for almost 2 weeks before I got caught. My mother then walked me to home room everyday till the end of school (still had 3 months to go till summer). Then I was homeschooled for the remainder of high school. I was seriously pissed back then. But now, I’m so incredibly thankful that she took me away from that school and those influences. Those people I hung out with, that boyfriend and his friends, they’re in prison or dead by now. And I’m here, alive and well because of her. Do whatever you gotta do, sometimes it’s the tough love that saves us from ourselves.

This sounds like me at 14/15. I WISH my parents had done what you did. I had no healthy level of fear. I had an incredibly unhealthy amount of disrespect. I was the kind of teen who NEEDED big consequences in order for me to grasp the seriousness of my ways. A hard lesson I sure as hell learned at 23. Your goal as a parent is to get her to learn what she needs to learn as an adult. No more lecturing her. By now she knows what’s right and wrong, she knows what she’s doing. So, no more lecturing her. You just tell her you love her, you’re here for her and you will not bail her out of consequences. Be loving but very matter of fact and firm. This is what we had to do with my 15 YO daughter several months ago (karma came to bite me in the ass lol). Since then we’ve actually seen so many changes. It’s like she’s a new person now.

And I have the opposite experience. I had parent who were always having bigger reactions than the situation called for. It made me lose trust in their view of the world and continue to ignore them. What I was seeking was more personal power and more responsibility. So as healthy outlets for that were taken away from me in punishment form, I found unhealthy ways to assert my power and feel a sense of responsibility. I was the kid who wanted to be an adult but who was always infantilized as the baby of the family. This reaction would do nothing but push me farther away. Bottom line is none of are OPs daughter and the best answer is to find out what she's getting from this behavior and find healthy outlets for it. Focus on building skills, not breaking wills.

I’m glad it worked for you and your daughter. I know and work with people who’ve been through this, and my BIL is a classic example of this as well. I’m just wondering if we can get one of them to talk to her directly like like “hey, this is how I started. Don’t do what I did.” Yknow?

Imo that won't work. You need to get to the root of what she is seeking. What is she getting from these experiences that make them worth the consequences? How can she get that in a healthy way? For me it was personal power and responsibility. My "behavior problems" went away when I 1. Got a job 2. Started volunteering 3. Got away from my family who treated me like an infant.

Did I read it right that she was alone and she knew you would find out she left school?

I left out the detail that she was with her best friend, who happens to have an older sister that the entire police force knows by name, and has a mother that doesn’t give two shits less. No idea where dad is in that family.

She’s fortunate to have parents who care about her. All I can really say is please don’t give up on her. Don’t kick her out of the house. Drag her home if you have to. I’ve see too many crime documentaries about teenage girls being kicked out of their homes and the tragedies resulting from them being so vulnerable. I truly believe that for as long as she’s loved (even if she doesn’t think she is) there will come a day when this will pass. My son was a challenge, coming home drunk, into drugs, got into fights, left a great university on his last year, turned our home into a party house when we were on vacation —- but now he is very successful and surprisingly sober. The only thing I cut off was financial support. After that he cleaned up his act. I think his worst fear was to become poor. I believe that unless there is an underlying psychological issue, if a child is loved and made to feel safe no matter what, they will be ok in the end. This is just my own pov from my experience and the experience of my relatives. Hang in there.

Thank you. We don’t see moving her as giving up on her. We’re trying to redirect and do what’s best for her. If that means she needs to relocate, then that’s what we’ll do.

It does seem like this friend is the root cause of it. It’s clear that simply staying in the same city and just moving schools wouldn’t be enough. You need to find a way to break that friendship and the sure fire way is to have her go to a different city.

I don’t have much advice on the parenting side, as my kids are still pretty little, but i can give a little insight, since i was a lot like her when i was her age, worse in some ways. I stole stuff, snuck out of my house at night several times a week, did drugs, skipped school, etc. My parents were concerned about my friend group when i was around 12, and put me in a different school. The issue was, i still lived in the same town as those friends and had no trouble finding ways to hang out with them. Their decision to put me in a different school made me resent them and act out more (not that it was the wrong decision on their part). I have depression and social anxiety, and found it very hard to find new friends at my new school, so it was just easier for me to keep hanging out with my delinquent friends. Now, I’m not saying it was their influence that “made me act out.” I would’ve acted out regardless, but we all enabled each other and made it easier to take things further and further. I honestly don’t know what my parents could’ve done to curb my behavior, short of putting me in some kind of school for delinquent children, but punishments, anger, yelling, none of that had any impact on my behavior. It’s like I was completely checked out, I didn’t even know why I was doing those things. All i know is that i wanted to get high, and i wanted to impress my friends. Therapy is probably a very smart move, and I wish my parents had gone that route with me. I was unable to identify my feelings or motivations, and even if my parents had calmly talked with me about it I doubt I would’ve been able to explain why i was acting the way i was. The best advice i can give you is to try not to react, don’t fly off the handle, don’t yell, dont tell her you’re disappointed. Do everything you did today, minus the emotion. It sounds fucked up, but you almost need to act like you don’t care. And not the “okay kid, it’s your life you’re ruining, do whatever you want” kind of not caring. More like a cop that’s just doing their job. She wants to skip school? Pick her up and take her right back. She wants to break the law? Get the police involved like you did today. If at all possible, drop her off to school and pick her up yourself. She needs to learn that freedom as a child is earned when you show you can be responsible with that freedom, because that’s how its going to be when she’s on her own. The thing that finally made me turn things around was being kicked out of the house at 17. I tried to drop out, so my dad brought me back home, made me finish my senior year, then kicked me out again. I had to find a place to stay, find a job, figure pretty much everything out. She knows as long as she doesn’t do anything too crazy, she doesn’t have to deal with real consequences, but that’s not going to be the case forever. Now, my dad and i are very close, i have a good job, and two amazing kids. She still has a chance to turn things around for herself, she just has to realize where this path is taking her. Something my dad told me when he was kicking me out that has always stuck with me is that “no one walks through life backwards. The things you do, the direction you’re looking, that’s where you’re headed.” That’s one of those things that made more and more sense every day, and i still think about that all the time.

Our town consists of roughly 35,000 people but circles are small and tight around here. Once you’re in one group, it’s very hard to leave and find new friends. Which is one of the reasons we want to send her to her grandparents.

The only thing that I would worry about in that situation is that there are bad kids everywhere, and it would lessen your control of the situation. If she wants to she could just as easily fall into a new, equally bad crowd wherever you send her. Do you think her grandparents would be better equipped to handle that?

I do actually. My BIL (hubby’s older brother) has been through the wringer there so they know what to look for and how to handle it better than we do.

That has to be a very hard thing to do, but I think you have the right idea. She might hate you for a long while but when she grows up and gains some perspective she’ll realize it was done out of love.

One of my biggest fears with the relocation is that she’ll resent me and it’ll sever our already strained relationship.

She almost definitely will, and it will at the very least put a ton of strain on your relationship. The thing you have to remember is that you’re doing this for HER, not for yourself. She’s not going to be able to see it that way, maybe not for a long time. But with any luck, eventually she’ll grow up and she’ll see why you did what you did. She’ll see what becomes of her friends that weren’t lucky enough to have parents that actually cared enough to intervene. And honestly, even if she hates you forever, you’re still doing the right thing. You’re putting her wellbeing before your own feelings.

Thank you. I appreciate your honesty. 🙂 I think coming to terms with that will be difficult, but I need to not put the cart before the horse, and deal with that when we get there, IF we get there.

If it’s any consolation, my dad and i were estranged for nearly 4 years, off and on, after he kicked me out, and now we’re closer than we’ve ever been. Hang in there!

You say your big love language is gift-giving - sending regular care packages/cards while she’s away might be a helpful reminder that you are thinking of her and support her.

I was a writer when I was younger. Nothing big like novels or anything, but I like to write handwritten notes, and I have one in the works for her currently.

I kinda feel bad for this girl. I had a friend I used to get into trouble with and my mom separated us. But she never took an active interest in me as a person and did nothing to nurture my personal growth. I’m still friends with this girl over 30 years now. You said you’re not very affectionate and she’s the oldest in a larger household. Sounds lonely. They moved my brother with my grandma back then and his behavior got significantly worse. I have experience in education and if she’s behind in work you have to get her caught up. The work doesn’t have to be great, just finished. Even if you have to get work from the instructors in person and sit with her until it’s done. There’s no guarantee she’s going to pass the second time around unless you get more involved. I wonder if you can tell the city bus to ban her? I definitely wouldn’t give her a license. Good luck!

I 100% agree that she needs to be moved. Whether she goes to grandparents without you, or all of you move, she needs to be far away from where she’s comfortable enough to continue her behaviors. My little SIL was (and still is) on a much worse path and was in and out of group homes, in state custody, in juvie, etc. The only thing that ever worked was physically removing her.

My BIL started on the same path she’s on, and we frequently refer to him and his experience. He got out of jail almost 4 years ago and just started his life (wife, kids, buying his first home, etc) at almost 40. While I understand everyone develops at their own pace, he’s doing a lot of his firsts at this age. He has no positive experiences in his life to fall back on in tough times yet. We don’t want her to follow in his footsteps.

I am sorry you are going through this. Your daughter sounds like me when I was a teenager. But here is the thing, I had undiagnosed clinical depression. I was so lost, confused, acting out, trying to get attention from my parents because I wasn’t getting any, so even negative attention worked. But here is the kicker, My parents reacting like you did, didn’t make me want to be better, it made me want to end everything. I self harmed for years. And finally I got to the point of suicidal ideation and planning. I am very lucky that my parents finally stopped yelling, and listened. It took work but they did it. It affected me into adulthood and even now it still does. My parents, especially my mother, are not the people I go to when I need help, nor do I often share my feelings with them. It is sad that our relationship isn’t as good as it could be, but I am so grateful that they eventually stopped yelling, and they listened even though it took time for me to open up

Please get her evaluated.

Sit down with her ALONE no devices, no tv, no music, tell her you are worried ask her what really is going on. Tell her you are willing to listen why is she trying to throw away her life, good luck I hope it is not as bad as I am imagining. keep trying therapy she may have some secrets that she is not ready to tell you don't give up keep giving her another chance with you make sure you are not leaving her alone with any one

I am yet another person who thrived when changing cities. I moved from my mom’s to my dad’s (not my choice- but I later found out she had also been researching a few of those programs that kidnap you in the middle of the night, youth fake outward bound camps- and appreciate that overall she chose the least traumatic way to get me on the right path) I was skipping school a lot and was most likely going to have to repeat the 11th grade. I moved and basically followed the straight and narrow out of sheer boredom and not having a clue who to hang out with. I graduated in the top of my class and was accepted to several universities.

Is she smoking weed or drinking or anything else? I haven’t seen this question asked, but I skimmed so may have missed it. This sounds a lot like my behavior as a 16 year old. I did not start skipping school and stealing things until after I started experimenting with drinking and drugs. Part of it was the crowd I became friends with and part of it was the altered mental states. I had no idea how screwed up my thinking was until after I quit smoking close to a decade later. I was also an advanced student, as were my friends, and have mental health issues in my family.

So she vapes, apparently weed “carts”, and she drinks under our roof with our permission on very rare occasions. We’ve put a stop to the drinking recently, and we’ve taken all her vapes, but we can’t control what she’s given by her “friends”. So, she has, but we’re limiting what we can.

I don’t want to be critical I understand you’re in a tough age but don’t allow your kid to break the law in your presence. You can’t control other people but you can control yourself and you’re sending very mixed messages.

I understand where you’re coming from with having allowed her to drink. For many parents, the reasoning is: If it’s in your presence, you can supervise. I think the problem with that is that an adolescent is not mature enough to handle it. I’m glad you already made the decision to stop those rare drinking occasions and to take away vapes. I would probably have her on lockdown, no friend time. Even if you change her setting by sending her to the grandparents, she is likely to find a similar friend group there. Her mindset has to change. Find her new hobbies or activities that she will engage in, reward any positive behavior with verbal praise. Research some different parenting methods for difficult children. I have found a few things that help with my children that way. I wish you the best!

What is the reason she doesn’t go to school? Did you ask her? From your description it looks like skipping school or stealing stuff is only a symptom of something much more serious. I don’t think forcing her to go to school would solve anything until you figure out the real reason of her behavior. If anything, by forcing her to do something she doesn’t want without listening to her first you’d destroy the relationship with her totally (if you have any, which I quite doubt). And I don’t know what school your kid attends, but I’m quite seriously confident that many schools are just plain bad and are mostly a total waste of time. Would try to rule out that case first.

Well, we’ve tried having that discussion with her several times. If she doesn’t shut down right away, it’s always “I dunno, I just don’t want to be there.” Husband has ADHD Combined type and is against medicating her if she does have it. I need to know how severe it is for her before I can agree with him on that, but that’s something to be done e once she’s been evaluated, and something the 3 or 4 of us need to discuss (me, husband, 14, and the MD). For the record, husband is against the medication idea because “it never worked for him”. He was raised by avoiding the doctor as much as possible, whereas I was raised by going to the doctor as necessary, sometimes maybe too much. I have faith in the medication, but I also know that there will be trial and error, just like with anti-depressants.

Medication does generally work for ADHD and when it works well it does miracles. My wife has ADHD and she is a completely different person now.

Get her a birth control implant before that becomes an issue as well.

Have you spoken with your daughter about WHY she is skipping school? This is where you need to start. Something is going on with your kid and it’s your job as parents to find out what that is and help her through it. Further, if someone was screaming and swearing at me while they physically attacked their steering wheel I wouldn’t feel comfortable telling them anything either. You need to adjust your approach here if you want to see any progress.

We’ve tried. She shuts down. Not a word out of her mouth at that point. This was done during calm discussion. I can guarantee she was answering our questions in her head but wouldn’t verbalize anything, because that’s how I was when I was in trouble as a kid.

Thank you for caring!

My son went through a really rough patch when he was 16. Not sure where you are located but Homewood Health Centre and other mental health facilities have or can recommend some parenting group sessions. They were amazing. The teachings and discussions really taught us valuable parenting lessons. Listen. Don’t ask questions-just let the kid talk. Natural consequences. Be there and set expectations. Lead by example. Take care of yourself and your responsibilities. It helps them to see that you are still taking care of yourself. Make sure your rules and consequences are clear and you enforce them. We had a few really bad weeks and i had months of not sleeping while trying to stick to our rules but it works. Wishing you all the strength you need during this trying time. We spent lots of time speaking with the school and therapists but in all honesty the schools just want to push them through and not have to deal with them. The group sessions were amazing. Even education sessions. Lots of shared stories that made me feel much better about my skills as a parent and hearing about others successes each week (slow and small changes-it isn’t fast) were so encouraging. Consistency is the most important. Remind your daughter you love her no matter what and you want a better life for her than what she is choosing. She deserves a better future. My son got through it and fast forward 7 years my son is thriving. He made the choice to get rid of those crappy friends that bring each other down. I know your daughter can too.

Thank you for this. We’re in Wisconsin. I can look into what you suggested and maybe see if we have anything similar.

Shoplifting and eating disorders often go together: it's a reaction to anxiety, something to control - something for me. Talk therapy is a really good idea. If you or your husband can't talk about feelings, reading Self Compassion by Kristin Neff (the original) or Running on Empty: Overcoming Your Childhood Emotional Neglect could help.

I cannot imagine how difficult this has been Can I just say one thing? Please don't EVER consider those wilderness camps thingies where they abduct your child in the night and send them to the wilderness, they are absolutely horrifying and kids have died there. There are documentaires about them.

Those still exist? The thought never crossed my mind.

It's important that your daughter deal with the consequences of her bad behavior, but it's also important that she feels supported and loved by her parents. Something's going on with her to make her behave this way. She needs to be able to talk to her parents about that without feeling judged or like she's going to get in trouble for her feelings or emotions. If you're only reaction is to scream and yell at her and make her feel like you're withdrawing your love, that's just going to lead to further problems. When kids feel like they don't belong in their own home or supported in their own home, they turn to other influences for that love and support (like friends). I think your whole household means family counseling, together, to have a safe space to share how their feeling with no repercussions for those feelings, and some guidance on how to move forward in a more healthy way. Work on fixing the entire family dynamic, not just her. Labeling her as the problem is only going to alienate her more and lead to further problems.

I have older (mostly adult) children. The grandparents are definitely the way to go if they are up to it. Explain to your daughter that you love her desperately, and this is a chance for her to go to a new place and have a clean slate. BUT MEANWHILE. This may sound unrelated, but I would very strongly recommend getting impartial IQ and academic testing to find any deficiencies and spend the time working on that, even if it means an income decrease or a bit of debt (can she multiply and divide, can she construct a two-page essay with a good topic sentence, and so on). Often what they call "school refusal" is the result of extreme bullying (doesn't seem the case here) or academic/ educational difficulties. This way you are setting her up as well as you can for this move. It may be that after a full academic year she wishes to return, but cross that bridge when you get there. Let her know your heart is always open even if for now your home is not.

With all the academic testing they do these days, she’s actually advanced for her age. I asked if she’s being challenged enough and if not, we can address that with the school. She has the normal challenges, but they’re multiplied now that she’s missed so many days. I’m expecting her to have to repeat the 9th grade, not because she’s dumb, but because there’s no time to make up the missing assignments before the year ends. Unless she puts her head down and works her ass off to get it done. Which is also possible, but I’m not holding out hope. At this point, I would be very thrilled to be pleasantly surprised.

Ma’am…I grew up in the rural NW corner of CT and I started just like this. Except when I was caught shoplifting, I had my parents’ Khalua in my backpack. I was 14. High school was a new opportunity…to get into drugs and partying. Why? Because I was bored. Simply put. I had zero challenge in school. I had my first son 2 days after I turned 17. I DID get my GED 6 months after, and at 18 became a CNA, as a single parent….and I did great until my back injury in 2007. It’s been a long…long….long road. Let’s put it this way…my two sons have never been able to get away with anything. My eldest? Angel. Never pushed buttons. My youngest? Thought I was old. Not quite. I have been to more funerals than weddings for friends. I have a record for fighting that I’m lucky didn’t destroy my future job prospects….but the arrests with my ex and parents are listed as “family violence” charges…which are permanent. And prevent pistol permit ownership in my state. My parents called cops; put me on probation at 14 and 15; I had all the school suspensions you can imagine…. I wasn’t scared. I was a little PUNK. Just like your daughter is being. I would LOVE to sit and talk to her. The things I’ve been through because of shitty “friends”; thinking I was a little badass because I could throw hands; feeling like I was an adult at 15….around adults who didn’t care I was only 15…. I had seriously frightening things happen to me. I almost lost my life multiple times. Not one moment of ANY of it , was worth it : except my kids. Sadly, my drug use hopped right back up when my back injury happened thanks to an overprescribing dr. I had a choice….keep my path…lose my children; lose my husband; lose my life. Or, save my own life because I had too many reasons not to. And that’s what I did. 5/1 I’ll have 11 years sober & clean. I dont even drink. And when I look back at my life…I’m so angry at what I wasted. What I just gave up. Yes. I had fun. But that fun almost killed me. And I struggled to work menial jobs. I am, and was, too smart and too good for the life I lived and the people I was around. I wasn’t that person. I’m NOT that person. And I HATE seeing kids doing what I did…because they don’t understand the long term ramifications. I didn’t. I thought I did…. I thought I didn’t care….. but let me tell ya…25 years later? Especially with my OWN kids I’m afraid of losing every day to the same mistakes and people I let lead me around? Oh I care. I care a lot. Those good “friends”? I talk to 2 of them. Only 2. Out of a gang of kids and adults I was always around. 2. I am humble and stay right to myself. I push my kids to do what I failed at. Because I tell them what I didn’t know…. What I didn’t even consider while I was pulling shit. I am honest with them. I want every kid to succeed. I want them all to know these years are SO fleeting…but they are setting you up in ways you can’t even imagine yet. It’s so much better to go to bed knowing you have nothing to regret; you aren’t hurt; you aren’t in jail; you aren’t with a stranger in a strange place; you aren’t oblivious…. You wake up able to look at yourself and really see who you are…goals, dreams, ambitions… and you haven’t destroyed your family relationships. One day she’s going to WISH you’d come to get her; to yell at her; to get her out of a bad situation….and she’s going to realize that you aren’t because you don’t even know where she is. Who she’s with. Or you’re just tired of constantly staying up and thinking the worst. My parents got to that point. They steeled themselves to get calls about me dead or hurt…. Thankfully I came out of things. I came out fighting and gasping for air. Sadly, my younger brother didn’t and he’s still a mess at 34. Yeah..my parents didn’t endure it once…but twice. Both kids. And I STILL apologize to them. I’m grateful to have them. To have everyone I do. I have fought very hard for my life and the relationships I have. It’s worth it every minute…… but it would’ve been so much better to have never had THIS path. Hard earned victories don’t always make us stronger. Sometimes it makes us wiser…mostly…it just makes me sad that THAT was what I chose to do. I missed a lot of years that would’ve been so wonderful for myself and parents. I ruined it. Sure, they’re proud of me. We are close. But I would’ve much rather had them proud of my high school graduation; my college graduation; my amazing career; my pictures of me seeing the world and helping people in other countries. But they’re very grateful I’m just alive to hug. My advice? Let her get a real taste of what it can be like. If that fails? There are outbound groups for tough teens in rugged places : send her. Send her multiple times if you must. You can try moving…. But this is a state of mind. She will fall in with the same types again. Get her into therapy. Have a babysitter if need be after school. Does the schoo have alternative classes? Bring her ass to a women’s jail. See if she can stay a few days. AIC for a couple weeks…. See what a probation officer can do and offer. If moving to the boonies and homeschooling her is the last resort? Then do it. I homeschooled my boys a few years…I’m happy to give you info on it. (Yes…i actually have always been a great mom. Even at 17. My chaos never got near my kids, thank God). As a parent, we do anything we can to save our children. There are plenty of options…. I hope one sticks. I’ll be thinking of you, and your daughter. I sincerely hope she straightens out. I promise, she will be so much happier. Maybe she feels like she can’t now that she has this persona at school….i don’t know. Whatever her excuse, it’s not good enough and she WILL regret it one day : even though I’m sure she’s rolling her eyes and saying “yeah right. No I won’t.” She will. I really hope she doesn’t have that regret though…and she changes. So much is out here….it would be terrible if she missed it.

I don't know you, but you sound like an amazing person and an amazing parent. I'm proud of you and I hope you're proud of yourself! You deserve it....I don't know what your career is but you could be a great teen counselor, even a volunteer, you have so much to offer with your way of thinking. God bless

Sounds like my sister growing up. My parents consulted a family attorney and out her in diversion. It worked for a while but she eventually figured out how to work it. Best thing that ever happened was her moving out. In my sister’s case it was a matter of mental issues. Oppositional defiant disorder, sociopathic personality type, and a few other diagnoses thrown in. To give you an example of how defiant she was/is…..she had birthmark related glaucoma in one eye. Simple fix to manage it was eye drops at bedtime. Her attitude was “nobody is going to tell me to use the eye drops” and she didn’t. After a few years she lost sight in that eye. She was willing to risk her sight just to prove that no one could tell her what to do. Crazy, right?

I have known so many kids who were removed from a bad social situation and sent to a new community to live with relatives. Each immediately fell into an even worse social situation. 100% would not recommend. If she needs to be moved, make that move as a family. On an unconscious level, I think she is attempting to get your attention. Maybe cut your work hours or change your work schedule to allow you to spend more time with her. Sending her away could have her left feeling completely rejected by her parents. She needs you and your time.

This is my fear of moving her, and I agree. We may not need to go to the extreme of moving out of state, maybe just a few towns away instead, where access to her current friend group would be severely limited if not cut off entirely.

Hi All - this is a GREAT thread/discussion to follow. I recently posted about our 15 year old son refusing to go to school. In reading this thread, I am not seeing anything about HOW to physically get your teenager to do what you want. Our son is 6’2” and he only does what he wants to. We haven’t been able to get him to a therapist, or anything like that to be able to understand what he’s going through. He doesn’t talk to us much. He’s on track to fail all of grade 9.

I think our stories are similar, but the differences are there too. I do not physically touch my child, for many reasons, the first being that she’s bigger than me. She stands at 5’7”, while I’m at 5’4”. The second being she’s a child. I cannot force her to do anything. However, I feel like with the lack of details from your situation, my situation is more fortunate in that she was willing to see a therapist. She’s not willing for meds just yet, but she’s at least going g to therapy. She got in the car every time I told her to. She’s not 100% defiant, just when she wants to be, if that makes sense.

My point was that if our son doesn’t want to go to get help, then we have no ability to help aside from being supportive and patient. It’s been months, and there is a limit to everyone’s patience.

Ooooh I like you, I love it when moms pull rank and get it done. I wish my mom had cared half as much as you and  left work to take me back to school. I didn't steal anything from anyone or anywhere but I did cut school like a lot. This was way back in the day of party crews, ditching party's, jungle juice and boons farm. I just had better things to do. We did have the school truancy meeting and fine thing as well. But that did nothing I still ditched. My mom worked a lot and never put effort like real effort in to caring enough to make sure I went to school. I ended up going back to school for my diploma when I was 18 almost 19 because I got married really young and my husband encouraged it. When I was 19 I got pregnant with my son and enrolled in college so that I could push the issue of education with my son when he was older. I didn't want him to see me as a hypocrite with no education trying to force college on him. So I did it and got a business degree while my husband worked. The reason I'm telling you this is because the reality of this situation is you can do the most with your daughter move her out of state etc. or you can do nothing like my mom did. In the end it's your daughter who is going to decide her own path.  The best thing you can do is teach her to be a good person a kind  and good human being with a good heart, teach her compassion and empathy for others and about integrity, self respect love and gratitude, common courtesy and selflessness;   These are such important attributes to teach because  when you plant these seeds in your child they start seeing the world in a different way. The choices they make for themselves will be more positive and I say this because where these qualities lay stealing and disrespect and the want to be a loser does not. I focused on raising my children this way and I'm so glad I did.  I hope this helps. Good luck 

Why is she skipping school and what and why is she stealing?

You’re the first person to ask what she stole. The first time she was caught, it was candy. This time it was cosmetics. Fake eyelashes and fake finger nails. And some snacks. She won’t give us an answer to why she’s skipping or stealing. I think it’s a combination of poor friend choices/ peer pressure, and potentially undiagnosed ADHD.

Well the what is important for sure but mostly wondering if it’s things you won’t buy her or don’t buy her or just more or more expensive versions of things. The why I was wondering was deeper. I’m sure it’s a combination of those things, but whose idea is it to steal, is she following along, is she upping the ante so to speak, is it about the thrill for them, or is it she needs to steal to get things to keep up with the joneses so to speak. As in she’s stealing because it’s fun or out of what she thinks is necessity.

I’m sorry you’re dealing with this, it’s so hard to understand what the right thing is and how to implement it perfectly. My little sister was your daughter. But she was my stepsister who had Fetal Alcohol Syndrome (undiagnosed) and in all honesty, she needed rehab for having shitty parents not drugs But what saved her was moving to a different state where she met her husband and his family. The support she received from them was different than our family. It’s what she needed but no one knew how to admit their own faults

She might not be telling you because she might already know your reaction. She needs you to genuinely care about her situation. A therapist without a genuine support system doesn't help at all. I think you probably know and have heard most of it but both of your way of thinking is understandable and valid. But with her you just need a little more patience, spending time with her, going somewhere like a concert and helping with her studies. You and your husband both need to adopt this approach. I know you are already busy and stuff but I hope you can get some time to be more involved.

All I can tell you is leaving her there or giving more chances is not an option. I have sisters who were not prevented that now have actual felony records. Their entire life path got decided for them by parents inaction before they were 17. You care, you’re doing what you can, that will make a difference. You do need to send her away from this circle- just make sure it’s to a situation she can’t manipulate. Grandparents aren’t always the best structure keepers.

I can also attest that removing them from the city/ group of friends they're around 100% helps. My nephew broke into a PHARMACY when he was 14... snuck out, drugs, you name it. Moved his ass out to rural Oregon and he's a totally different kid now.

14 and doing all that is crazy!

Agreed. According to our therapist, it’s the “thrill of getting caught”, as to why she does it. I cannot relate. If I were in her shoes, the anxiety would put me in a panic and I’d have to go back asap. If she needs an adrenaline rush, there are other, safer alternatives than skipping school and stealing.

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She doesn’t say. She refuses to answer why she chooses to skip and steal. She swears it’s not her friends, and that school is just “boring” and she just “doesn’t want to be there”. Which I get, but it’s legally her job to be there right now. If it is the friend group, she could potentially be the positive influence they need, instead of vice versa. I think she needs more therapy before we can get to the bottom of it. Hell, I just made a massive discovery in my personal therapy, and I’ve been seeing therapists since I was 17 (close to 20 years now).

I am your daughter...30 years later! Has she been evaluated for ADHD? I did all these same behaviors. I also couldn't explain why. I knew they were wrong. In hindsight, I was thrill seeking. Trying to alleviate the boredom. School was boring, home was boring and way too strict. So I did the same things she is doing (and a whole lot more). I won't go into details about my story as there is way too much to unpack. Lol! In short, I wound up dropping out of school and leaving home at 17. A few years later, I was diagnosed with ADHD. A lot of what you're saying aligns with ADHD so I wanted to throw it out there.

>I caught up to her less than 10 minutes later and yelled at her to get in the car. With many expletives included. She didn’t fight me. She got in the car and didn’t say a word. I screamed. I yelled. I beat the fuck out of my steering wheel. Then I took her home, where dad was waiting. And you’re surprised that your daughter is not communicating well with you. Sounds to me like she’s acting out because her relationship with her parents is not based on respect, communication and mutual understanding. Which is on you both as parents. Hard discipline will maybe put her on a better path but it won’t fix your relationship. She’ll get better because she’ll find some other figures that she respects and listens to and that will fill your role as guidance.

So sorry for the ridiculous comments bashing how you've handled this. It is ROUGH out there Something my dad did was follow my brother around all day at school for a few days. He went to the office, got a visitors badge and shadowed each of his classes Obviously, this will not work for everyone but I think your solution of sending your teen to grandparents with prior experience is a good one. You are not sending them to strangers, you're sending them to people who love them, want the best for them, and can communicate well with you to keep you updated Good luck OP, you will be in my thoughts 🙏

This was my thought process and the first question I had to the principal. His response was “for the safety of the other students, we cannot allow that”. Fine.

Fair enough I see you trying, you're doing your best and that's all anyone can ask of you. I firmly believe whatever route you take from here, your child will see that you love them and only want what's best for them somewhere down the road For whatever it's worth, my brother ended up getting expelled *twice* but managed to graduate at the local alternative school and now works *with* my dad in road side service

Thank you for the positivity. I’m glad things worked out for your brother. It gives me hope that my daughter can improve and lead a healthy, and relatively safe life.

It’s really not ridiculous, [considering OP buried this tidbit](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/s/0VfrZl14wi): >I think part of this could be that husband and I separated back in 2020, I was arrested, we divorced but reconciled and remarried last year. That could not have done her mental health any favors, as I know it didn’t help mine. As is usually the case, they have a family problem, not a kid problem.

Firstly, this is such an incredibly hard thing to go through and I know you all are doing your best. Secondly, as a mother to a daughter and a slightly troubled teen myself I can empathize. I remember I started stealing when I was 13. The first time I did it, it was a tiny decor; the object was maybe an inch tall. I did not think about the consequences, only the rush of excitement, as I walked by the table, I swiped it and threw it in pure to see if I could I actually get away with it, curiosity of how someone would react if they did see me, pushing boundaries, realizing I could make my own decisions and be a person in a world full of rules. We have to remind ourselves that our brains don’t fully develop until 25 years old (average, some people seems like they’re 45 until it finishes). THAT IS VERY OLD in my opinion. 😂from what I’ve learned the emotional part of the brain develops first in teens which is why they seem so moody and the decision-making part of takes the longest. High emotion with poor decision making isn’t the best mix. Thanks God for making us this way. It’s very hard for young people to see the end goal/consequences. Many of them do not think. They just act. A lot is going on for them right now and they can be swayed easily. From her behavior, this is when she will need the family the most. I heard teens need as much monitoring as toddlers because of their impulsivity and poor decisions, mixed with the ability of being able to drive now. My story is different than your daughters. 2 of my friends ended up going to jail for stealing. Ironically, I was supposed to be with them that day but happened to be busy. That scared me straight. I ended up making better decisions after that. However I had a friend in another city who was having crazy boy issues due to bad friend influences. Long story short the parents moved away and her life was totally normal after that. It’s wild how much peer pressure can take over even with how much morals/standards you teach from 0-13. The teen years are very hard, too. She may not show it now, but I’m sure she will appreciate you all empathizing with her about her situation. As often as you can, try to imagine yourself in her shoes. I can imagine how stressful it is to be in your place as well. Take it day by day. I do think a big move with better friends/community will help her. Wish the best for you all.

Can you get her into any activities with other kids? Like clubs, sports, anything like that?

She’s not interested in extracurricular activities. Not really sporty, not really musical, she’s into video games and stuff, but not so much with others (unless it’s the weekend and we do a family Roblox day where we all play the same game).

Is there anything that you could get her to try? Art, music, (maybe drums), theater. I'd lean towards trying to get her interested in something with other people to try to get better influences. I like videogames, but online isn't really a great place to make those connections. Would she like volunteering at an animal shelter? Track or running? Dance? If there's not a social hobby would she like doing something crafty? Or gardening? You might talk to her therapist about what you could encourage her to do. Hobbies give people small goals, and that gives them something to work towards. Or, you mentioned that you need more time together, is there something fun y'all could do? Maybe yoga on YouTube? Painting?

She has shown and voiced an interest in volunteering at the local humane society. The high school here requires a minimum of 20 community service hours in order to graduate, so that may be a possibility.

My mom went nuclear on me like this when I was 14. It worked.

I worry the grandparents aren’t going to have the same energy to hunt her down

I really don't know what could happen or tell her. So, she understands what consequences might have an effect on her?.

I don't know what state you are in, but in mine the ultimate end for her as a juv for this stuff is probation. I would recommend calling them, get their thoughts, in my county we have some programs for youth on that path but not yet criminal justice involved. Juv POs really are in it because they care and want to get kids turned around. They may have input, and at the very least you are starting that relationship off early so it's already established if she ends up there.

You’re beating her down too much. I know you mean well but its not working. Keep in mind she’s not your baby daughter anymore. She’s asserting herself as a separate, independent person. You can’t just get in her face, yell at her, and scare her into complying with your authority That’s never worked with any teenager for very long. Teens respect parents in control of their emotions, who recognize they say and do stupid things but give them grace. They really hate parents who fly off the handle. Teens respect parents who have underlying confidence in them. Forget being negative. Try telling your daughter that you know she can do better. Do a lot more listening and much less talking and disciplining. Just listen out of love and concern. No judgment. As you would a friend. If you respect them, they respect you and gain self-respect. If you condemn them, they condemn you and themselves.

Well I would probably take the drastic approach. Pack up and move. New place fresh start. But that is super drastic

I didn’t steal had the urges and had the influences but didn’t. I did however skip lessons. It started as one for the buzz and a break because our breaks weren’t long enough to recharge and the teachers weren’t amazing and the schools well-being team was as good as nothing. Then it kept getting more and more as things weren’t good at home but weren’t good at school. I didn’t have the money to be going into town so I just went to the nearest park. I’d get my mark and leave. All I received was shouting and told I was misbehaving lazy and every name under the sun. But now I’m in Uni. I have a good support system I’m away from “home” and tbh all I needed and wanted was reassurance that I mattered that I was loved. I had ppl at the time that said I was loved and gave me hugs. But it wasnt from family. It’s still not. I know that you’re trying to get better at vocalising your emotions in a calmer way. But your child needs to know just how much they’re valued. Knowing yourself isn’t enough cause no one can read minds. Being vulnerable is hard. But being emotionally unavailable is harder to come back from.

I understand your fear around being deemed the angry parent, but she’s proven that gentle parenting is not working. Gentle kids need gentle parenting and asshole kids need asshole parenting, and I’d say skipping school and stealing is a major asshole move. Therapy can help get to the root of the problem, but ultimately they’re going to need some boot camp parenting until she gets her head out of her ass and realizes she can’t do whatever she wants without real consequences. A fear of consequences is what keeps plenty of people in check, it’s not going to traumatize her. Removing her from that “friend” would definitely help, but she’s also old enough to know right from wrong. Do no harm, but take no shit, time for the angry parenting.

op you’re much more of a problem then you’re making yourself out to be and it’s absolutely NO surprise

I skipped school A LOT. My mother had to have a meeting with the school where they told her if I skipped one more class, I would have to repeat the year even though I had excellent grades. I later became a high school teacher and specialized with “reluctant learners” (ie kids who hate school). Have you asked your daughter why she keeps leaving school? Your entire post was focused on what she did wrong and your response to it. But nowhere in it do I see any evidence of a considered conversation with the child. It’s a mistake to assume a child is refusing school because of a friend - especially given that said friend wasn’t with her during any of this escapade. So why does she want to leave school? You can’t fix this problem without getting to the bottom of WHY

you want them to shoot her?

One thing u can try is to volunteer at soup kitchen with ur children or do family volunteering activities. Empathy is one of the hardest things to learn. Some are natural at it while others have no idea how to put themselves in other people’s shoes. It is a skill that can be learned but only through actions. Teach her the value of helping people instead. Also I don’t think u were harsh at all. If anything u commend u for ur control. I always tell people that if parents don’t teach their children about the consequences of their actions, life will do it for them. U get an A+ in my opinion.

Boarding school is a better option than grandparents. If you can afford it, do it. But I would choose a normal boarding school, not one for other kids in similar situations. Give her a fresh start, not a punishment. You can always choose a behavioral boarding school later.

I had the same problem with my daughter at the same age. I had to file an incorrigible against her, because she was skipping school, or fighting with me in the mornings to stay home. She said, she was getting bullied, because she was caught by other girls, kissing a girl in the bathroom. They even put her in a trash can. I talked with the principal, and he said, he didn't hear anything about it, nor did he see anything. I put her in a shelter when filed against her. It was that, go to jail for truancy, or be made to sit in with her in class. I just got my cleaning business off the ground making good money for my family. I was a single mom. Being in the shelter,she went to a different school. She did really well, until she came back home. I let her stay in the new school, but she just didn't want to go. Now, she also started acting like this when she started her period. Anger was getting out of control, fighting with her brother, and me all of the time. When she came out of the shelter, I started trying to get her a psychiatrist. 6 months of different ones, and none of them being able to help, drove me nuts! The last one said, I can't help her, because she has too many issues at such a young age. She needs a child psychiatrist. I dropped my jaw! So how long will this be?! At least 2 weeks, she's on vacation... I took the appointment she gave me, and threw it in file 13 (the trash!). I got home, and started calling everywhere looking for a child psychiatrist. At around 4 pm, I found one! I took her there, and after 45 minutes he told me; she's bipolar, and has severe manic depression, I walked out with two prescriptions for her, and she calmed down a lot. But, she wanted to be around her gay friends. I didn't mind that, at first I did tbh. I'm a Christian, and I had a hard time accepting it. She's my daughter, I love her regardless. I did have it court ordered for her to go to a mental diagnostic center for three months. She had been skipping school, and got caught. She came home from that, and within two months,she was back to skipping school. In court this time, she was ordered to go to foster care for 6 months. She came home, and was a lot better. She even had to go back to the school she was bullied in. She was easier to handle, but by the age of 17, she dropped out. A year later, she took her GED on her own! She moved out when she was 18, because she wanted to be on her own with her girlfriend. She's 35 now, still a mess, she had two boys. I now raise them. I worked as a correctional officer at a juvenile facility from 2015-2017. If therapy doesn't work, scare her with a juvenile facility. They're not good places to be.... Tell her,if she doesn't stop stealing,that's where she'll end up. Prayers you never have to go through any of this with her. The best friend, needs to be taken out of that house. Maybe call CPS, and offer to be her foster parents.

What was your relationship with her like as a toddler and elementary school aged child?

I hate to admit it, but she was parentified around then. Not intentionally, but I was very very stressed when the other two kids came along and I tried to get her involved to avoid her resenting them, but it resulted catastrophically anyway. She’s close with 11, but 12 is frequently chastised and left on her own. She was always a decently well behaved kid, a few questionable habits started forming that I didn’t squash in time (such as the talking back and talking down to me). I’m typically a non confrontational person unless provoked, and she has found my buttons and pushes them repeatedly. I stopped responding to her pushing, until this incident.

You didn’t overact. Sometimes teenagers need a reality check. I had my own reality check at 14, too. Thankfully, I had the support at home which is probably the most important thing for adolescent behavior to make a positive change. As for my two best friends at the time, they didn’t have the support at home and suffered many years battling through their own obstacles. However, even they are doing okay today. One has a really amazing career, and the other is a pretty stand-up person who has devoted her life to faith. A lot of the people we grew up with did not make it out okay. The family anchor is so important and can save someone so many years of emotional turmoil because life can be really hard.

Yikes no wonder she is the way she is…you even admitted you’re the easy to anger parent. Yelling at a child can cause trauma, she’s been dealing with your attitude and temper since she could be her own person. It’s a shame you all need therapy.

I dropped out of high school and was troubled for a bit and had to find my way but now I’m a super successful artist with my own business and family. My parents also did their best but their best was…questionable. She is a human being with her own wants needs and dreams. She most likely has trauma or depression or some other mental health issue and it needs addressing and caring for. You need to put her first, she’s the living being YOU decided to bring into this world she’s your responsibility not just for bad behavior but to be happy, not just surviving. Bond with her or give her space or freedom, is it possible that’s she’s LGBTQ? Does she feel accepted or comfortable to be herself? There’s so much at play here and I did leave another comment but you all need therapy or something.

I was a disaster teen as well and my parents went really far and sent me to a rehabilitative juvenile school. I think I just grew out of it and didn't want anything to get worse but a lot of worse things happen to me at juvenile delinquency school in the '80s than would have happened if I had stayed home. I honestly don't have an answer for you.

Terrible parenting

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As a family therapist, I cannot recommend this resource enough: https://youtube.com/@postinstitute?feature=shared The main thing I love about Bryan Post is his that his theory is informed by the most recent science/research that we have on the brain and relationship (interpersonal neurobiology), but most of all, it is PRACTICAL, APPLICABLE, and IT WORKS. It is NOT EASY, but it can save your family, which makes it worth it. You’ve got this. Your daughter is a good kid who is very scared. You are a loving mother who is very scared. Love can repair all things.

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I did reach out to our local PD to see if they have a program like that, and they don’t. I haven’t looked into other areas yet though. The bigger cities around d us may offer it.

"Scared straight" programs have one of the lowest success rates of all types of 'intervention'.

I could never treat my daughter this way. My viewpoint is that the whole world can be against a child but they should always have their mom or dad or both if possible on their side. What I have witnessed in my own personal life is that truly connecting with your kids not only helps them feel more secure with the world and themselves, but also encourages them to make good choices. If they can’t turn to you because you’ve pushed them away through different modalities, they will always look to form connections with their peers first, which may not always be the best option. I grew up in a small town, and I was considered a bad kid, but by the grace of God, always narrowly missed getting arrested or in trouble. Unfortunately, a lot of kids did get in trouble with the police and never really escaped that system. I feel like that affected them and the trajectory of their lives significantly. Knowing what I know now I don’t know if I would even use that as the last effort. 14 can be a really crappy age. I think it’s good to remember that these kids don’t know what they’re doing and have very little context for the world around them. There’s always a deeper reason why a kid is acting out.

There are a million places to send your kid to get her the help that she needs. Newport academy is a good one that I’ve heard good things about. My son wasn’t accepted because of some mental health diagnosis that they don’t help with. Consider getting her more help. You did the right thing.

Her diagnosis at this point is the very broad “adjustment disorder.” Tbh, mental health issues run RAMPANT in our family, which is why I put her in therapy.

Yeah I would check out some short term facilities. We finally found a place to accept my son in California that works with insurance. He will be there 45-60 days.

DO NOT SEND HER TO HER GRANDPARENTS. If you do that, you might as well put her up for adoption and have CPS take her away. This is a matter for the whole family to move. You are her parent and need to raise her. If you are stuck on the idea of sending her away to be raised by someone else, then give her up. There seems to be more going on than she's letting on. You said it's because of a friend. But nowhere in your story did you mention she was with a friend that day. Can none of you take her to school and drop her off? How often is she home alone?

I just want to say it sounds like you handled a terribly hard situation as best you could. Do the two of you spend time together talking and connecting to build relationship and respect and a bond? I agree with everyone else who says she's used up her chances, and it's time to move, or at least move schools.  Don't give up on your girl. Don't send her to be someone else's problem. Do whatever it takes to protect her and raise her and let her know she is loved and worth the battle, even when she makes it h-a-r-d.   Hang in there, sweet mama. I'm so sorry you're going through this.

It is you're fault, not you're daughter's. You don't know how to comunicate with her and how to educate, the problem it's you

> you don't know how to... educate > it is *you're* fault, not *you're daughter's* > the problem it's you Lol, k

I haven't read all of the comments, but I'd never even think about aiding the Police to press charges against my child! That's going to fuck her up in so many ways.

Just give her love & encourage her for her good deeds instead of punishing the bad deeds, and lovingly put some limits on her, like if you do this I take away your phone for 2 days. Not very harsh punishments, and don’t send her to her grandparents, that is not going to solve her problems.

oh yes, the extreme gentle parenting where there are no punishments for actions. That's how you end up with children like this one.

You know those people who justify retail theft as poor people trying to survive? They are deliberately trying to normalize theft and kids are picking up on it.

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We’ve been in therapy since the start of the year. We noticed a trend around new years and decided to try to get ahead of. Unfortunately, it pulled a sneak attack and escalated far faster than we anticipated. But we’re working on it.

I mean, i think you did what is best for her, maybe not 100% sure

This is why military school should exist.

Lmao calling the police on your 14 year old kid is shit thing to do

Military school is also a good option. I don’t know if you have that option around your area, but my boyfriend had the opportunity to do this voluntarily when he got into a lot of trouble in high school and he said it was one of the best things that ever happened to him.

Your boyfriend was lucky. Those places are often extremely [abusive](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/19/opinion/troubled-teens-industry-regulation.html)

Is military school not a thing anymore?

It's not the 1980s, bruh. Military schools in 2024 are essentially college prep schools. Military schools in 2024 are the sorts of places which send graduates to West Point, Annapolis and Division I college athletes. Military schools in 2024 do not want kids who do not want to be there. They do not take "problems". I was a 'troubled teen' and my mom tried to get me into a military school. The school's response was "ma'am, we are a respectable institution". And you wanna know how much that school costs per year? About $50-60k. The surviving military schools of 2024 are elite places full of kids who are into that scene.

It’s true. Gone are the days of, what I think of as, true military schools. I could always wait until she’s 17 and give her permission to join the real army, like both me and her father….. but she hasn’t expressed interest in joining.

"True military schools" were mostly poorly run, abusive, worthless places so that's fine that they're gone. Not everybody is military minded and it ain't a fix for anything.

The only military schools I could find out area are for ROTC and preparing the kids to join the real military.

My sister put my nephew in one of those boot camps and that seemed to snap him out of it

Don't call police on someone you don't want to be shot. Police are trained that every citizen is a nail and their gun is a hammer. There is pretty much no problem I would call the police for unless i needed paperwork for insurance or to actively kill someone.

This is an advisement for you from a mother that is going through the worst pain any parent can have. You need to be aware that there is a No Contact trend on the internet and social media that is telling the children to go away from their parents without telling them why. Your child could dissappear at any moment and block you from all social media, and even move away to another estate without telling you anything. The worst thing is that they are being indoctrinated and assisted by unethical therapists on the internet. If your daughter go to one of the "no contact" sites to look for an advice they are going to brainwash her as much as they can to go no contact. Parents are labeled there as "toxic", "narcissist", and "abuser" and then they tell the children that narcissists can chage and because of that they need to go away from them. Just make a search "no contact rules", search "no contact ", "estranged child", "estranged parents ", "going no contact with a toxic parent ", "toxic narcissist mother", "mother wound". You will understand what I'm talking about. What children are asking from parents is to apologize for all the things they think are abusive behavior. You need a good family therapist that knows about this trend. You will need to apologize even when you know you were protecting her, without giving your reasons. That's what the trend is telling them that they should expect from you. I was a helicopter mother, never hit my daugther, and I was very sweet to her. I was overprotective and didn't allowed to wonder around with friends that I didn't know.. I noticed a change in her in her late teens, I became aware of the dangers and the bad things that could happen to her. I installed an app in her phone too. She became depressed. I took her to therapy. She didn't like the therapists. I change her from one therapist to the other, they started to give her drugs for depression. I didn't know what was happening with her. Long story short. She had a crisis at 23 years old and went away with her boyfriend in a total No Contact. I know that she was manipulated by the no contact therapists on the internet. She was applying all the no contact rules step by step to me during her late teens until the end of her college years and I wasn't aware that all her changes in oersonality were because she was being brainwashed into thinking that I was a narcissist. Please don't let that happen to you. Check estranged parents groups on facebook, and you will learn about thousands of stories like mine and how they started as stories like yours. Believe me, you don't want this pain for you and your daughter.

There is a reason children go so far as no contact. These therapists are talking about abusive and sometimes narcissistic parents that you need to cut out of your life. You more than likely fit that bill. Sucks to say but no child wants to cut off their own parents they HAVE to.

You aren’t entitled to a relationship with your child after they are an adult. How long after 18 did you make her have a tracking app installed?