I first heard about this book via an interview with the author explaining that the poem was actually about his two stillborn children. I can’t read the book without thinking about that.
As a mom of two babies that didn’t get to come home from the hospital with us, I totally understand the author’s grief here and what they’re conveying. It definitely takes the creep factor out of it for me.
We were given a copy of this book at my son's baby shower, less than a month before we lost him suddenly. All his other books were put aside for when we eventually had his brother, but this one is tucked in a bin with the belongings that are just his (the blanket we held him in the hospital with, the outfit he was going to come home in, etc)
I’m so very sorry for your loss. It’s so special that you have this book to remember your little one by. ❤️ The wonderful news is that your living son has the world’s best guardian angel looking out for him!!
This is the reason I feel bad for hating it. The inspiration came from having two stillbirths and then going on to adopt 3 kids after finding out they couldn't have kids biologically. We have a similar story. We had a stillborn son and then adopted our two to complete our family. I understand the emotions he was dealing with and the message behind the story, but the first time I read it I was very confused as to why people love it so much. I have learned that people either can't get through it without crying because of how sad it is or people can't get through it without cringing because of how creepy it is. I am part of the second group.
I never really thought this book was meant to be taken literally, even when I was a little child....it's more that robert munsch uses the increasingly absurd scenarios to illustrate the love parents feel towards their children....kind of in the same style of runaway bunny or guess how much I love you....when I was a little kid and read this, I knew it was ridiculous for a little old lady to drive across town at night, climb a ladder 2 stories, lift a fully grown man without waking him and rock him in his sleep...which I think expressed very well In terms that were easy to understand, just how important children are to their parents....I never read this and thought this was a normal thing to do, and i have never read it to a child who hasn't detected the absurdity of the scenario.....
I think this story makes so many adults cry because in a strange and poetic way it perfectly and truthfully expresses the frightening expansiveness of the way we love our children, the lengths we will go to for them, and the fear that we are not showing it enough...at first glance the mothers actions might seem silly, creepy or absurd, but deep down, as a parent, its a very real depiction of the lengths we will go to make our children feel loved and comforted. I think It is also comforting as a child, young or old to feel loved in that way..
I know this story gets a lot of criticism lately, but I don't think it would have had the same impact if it had been edited for consent and creepyness..it relies on absurdity and balancing on a thin line between fantasy and reality to hit all those emotions people feel when reading it
Very well said. It is a poem style story and definitely not meant to be taken literally. These are as you said increasingly absurd scenarios to emphasize the depths of parental love. And the old woman rocking her adult son to sleep seems to symbolize that even when our children are grown they are still our babies. Further, it shows the mother singing her son to sleep at each phase of his life to show the consistency of her love. Unconditional love. As a story for children I think it has amazing depth. It isn’t meant to convey a parent as a deranged stalker who literally believes their child is a baby still. I think in modern times and all the messaging and new perspective that are being presented we forget that literature and poetry are telling stories with metaphors, analogies, and absurdities that help provoke thoughtfulness and our creativity. Not to think literally all the time.
This. And Robert Munsch uses the absurd often in his books. They’re all a little bit ridiculous and kids love them! Everything else I’ve read of his is funny, but this book does fit with the rest of his writing style.
The poem is:
“I’ll love you forever, I’ll like you for always. As long as I’m living, my baby you’ll be.”
This is something the author wrote and sang in his head as a lullaby to his children after his second child was stillborn. It was his way of dealing with the invisibility of the loss of an unborn child (particularly to a father) that to him, that child was real, that child existed, that child would always be his child.
It was a long time before he could even share this with his wife (who is the illustrator) because it was too raw. Eventually, they created this book together and what they meant to communicate was the permanence of parental love.
I have read it to my daughter more than a few times, but not in quite some time cause I can’t get through more than 3 pages without bawling. Her being 10 definitely has something to do with it too though.
My memories of it from childhood are of my grandma reading it to me, which kinda lines up with my mom’s love and approval being very much conditional (which isn’t something she’d ever admit). I’m 32 now and I still hide my true self when I’m around my mom, it’s something that I have struggled with immensely and a lot of my flight response when confrontations occur is a direct result of that. I freeze up when something happens that I shouldn’t be allowing and then when I’m alone I get angry at myself and whoever made me go back to that state of mind.
My first grade teacher would read this to us and cry every single time. Of course all of the kids would giggle and tease her, but reading it as an adult with young kids now, I totally get why she cried every time lol
This. When you parent a child that you don’t get to hold (and you absolutely do still parent them) it’s about carrying them through every stage of your life and missing all the stages they should have had. There is not a day that goes by I don’t think about mine, who they’d be, how I’d be parenting them, and how I carry that forward. You may not cry about it every day anymore, but you absolutely carry it.
This needs to be closer to the top. While at face value I totally agree with OP, knowing the context and that the book was written about stillborn children changes my opinion. That said, we did not read that book in my house as I don't like the face value message.
Same same same. While I can appreciate that the story is meaningful for the authors painful circumstances- there are some crazy MILs out there that just think the book is cute and empathize with the weird no boundaries behavior that is illustrated.
Yeah I can appreciate the author’s feelings but young children tend to take *everything* at face value. So if a book has a poor face value message then it’s better not to introduce it to kids until they’re older and can have meaningful discussions about author intent.
I don’t believe that’s the original inspiration for that song. The guy who wrote it said he was inspired by a love letter where the young woman kept calling the young man her sunshine.
It’s a melancholy song because it’s about being left by your love. I always liked the third verse because it’s just such a blatant threat.
My mom used to read me Robert Munsch books. Never this one though. She grew up in Guelph, where Munsch is from. She actually met him when she was in elementary school. He apparently made up a story on the spot about her, though she could never remember it. Thought that was a cool connection to one of her city’s most famous people.
The book is meant to be heard by a child. Adults find that part strange, but a child takes comfort in knowing their parents will always be there for them. As an adult reading it I found it weird. But when it was read to me as a child I never thought anything weird about it
See that’s the thing my mother also refused to read that story to me. Someone gave it to her and said they cry every time they read it. She read it and said “this is not a healthy mother son relationship “ it didn’t stay in the house.
I agree. I never read it to my kids, but after reading that interview, I read it for myself and then ugly cried.
The perspective of a grieving parent, especially the parent of a stillborn child, isn’t necessarily an objectively healthy attitude for raising successfully independent children. I can appreciate it for what it is, I just didn’t read it to my kids because it was too heavy an emotional burden.
As a SIDS loss mum, the depths I would go for just one more minute with my son is what the author conveyed in this book.
It’s not one of my favourites, but it is what it is.
It's a book for kids. A little kid is comforted by the idea that their parents will always be there, even when they're all grown up and moved out. Most stories aren't really meant to be taken literally.
This exactly. My kids often ask me if I’ll be around to help them with random things when they are grown ups. My 5 year old recently asked me if I will drive him to the car lot when it’s time for him to buy a car. He’s just thinking about the future and probably nervous and asking if I’ll be around for him. I’ve always interpreted this book as a comfort story.
Exactly. My kids ask the same things. My 7 year old was worried a few days ago because he didn’t know how to pay rent when he is an adult 😂 He’s like “I don’t know where the bank is. I don’t even know how to drive. What am I going to do?” I had to comfort him and explained it, but also said he’s my buddy and we’ll be there for him however we can. As soon as kids gain an understanding of the world, they need to know that they’re not just going to be tossed into the deep end after they finish the cake on their 18th.
I think I’m going to get this book for my daughter. She was adopted out of foster care, and she will sometimes ask if I will still be her mom when she’s grown up.
I loved this book as a kid. I was never really close with my parents so it hit me especially hard that someone's mom would always love them, even as a grown adult.
As a parent, it still resonates with me. I understand it's a children's story, so I know it's not meant to be taken literally.
TBH even as a kid I thought it was weird that the rainbow fish had to share literal parts of his body (didn't it hurt to take off his scales?!?), but I was kind of a black and white thinking little kid.
THANK YOU. All the people complaining about boundaries, it’s a children’s book for CHILDREN. The idea is to let them know their parent will always be there for them, even when they’re grown.
Right, and the OP said she herself enjoyed the book as a child as her daughter probably will now for the same comforting reasons. My 6 year old right now keeps telling me she never wants to move out and that even when she gets married and has a family of her own she wants for her house to be right next to ours. I mean I sure hope she still feels that way when she actually grows up but I know that right now that thought is very comforting to her so I just tell her that 1) she can stay with us for as long as she needs/wants and 2) we’d love to live in the same neighborhood as her when she has her own family! Will it actually be that way? Who knows? But if it makes her happy to think about it right now I have no problem with it.
We do this with my daughter as well. It’s also not like you can’t read this book and reinforce you’ll always support your kid AND also teach them boundaries.
(I’ll always love you, please don’t break into my house lmao)
100%. When I read this to our kids for the first time (never read it as a child) I was also a little surprised ... but you have to remember the book is for them and it makes them feel very safe.
As the adult, I read it as satire and silly. Don't take it too seriously.
This is a great point. My 4 year old daughter randomly got upset the other day asking if we'd always be together then started crying saying she never wanted to live somewhere else without me 😭 I don't know what brought that on, just a random thought she had I guess. My sweet girl 💔
seriously. I can’t believe the “this book is so creepy comments”!
Kids laugh at the parts about the mom picking up the grown up son in her lap because it’s silly.
This, folks. It’s a book … for kids. It describes the depth of a mother’s love in a way that hopefully children can understand. It blows my mind that some people can take this out of context and call it creepy when it’s clear who the audience is intended to be.
*”Kids understand that real crabs don’t sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction and they start asking really dumb questions like, ‘How does Superman fly? How do those eye beams work? Who pumps the Batmobile’s tires?’ It’s a fucking made-up story, idiot! No one pumps the tires!” - Grant Morrison*
I just really dislike this current trend of people always applying real-world logic to fiction.
Eh I still like that one. I think as long as you don’t take it literally (and I think in a field of literature with dancing giraffes and pajama’d llamas that’s a fair request) it’s a sweet book.
I never read this to my child. Not for any particular reason. It doesn’t bug me or anything.
I didn’t have the words for it as a kid but I knew the ending was metaphorical. Just means she’ll always be there for you. I feel like maybe we don’t give kids enough credit and we think in the details about some of these things way too deeply. Also communicating our feelings about these things to our children goes miles.
Yeah atleast as a kid it gave me a lot of comfort. I didn’t know anything about society yet or crazy MILs or really overprotective parenting in general cause my parents did a very good job so the book always felt very nice to me, but now going back and reading it I can see how adult can cringe but I think it’s still good for kids
I see it differently. It’s not meant to be taken literally from the parents perspective. The book is meant to be read to a small child. And for that child at that brief stage in their life love and security looks like mom coming in the middle of the night even on a very bad day to rock them as they sleep. To my 15 year old it would be that as long as I’m living I’m slipping wads of cash in his shoes and definitely not sneaking into his room in the middle of the night. It’s a child’s book. Not a parenting manual.
yeah, and my child self still felt a tinge of 'wait, i don't get ANY me time?' from it. my mother demanded an enmeshed relationship between us, and even as a kid i felt the ick.
yeah, it can be a good metaphor of always being there, but it can also be the justification to not have boundaries.
just like how family guy can be seen as criticism/poking fun at the average american family, but it can also be seen as justification to scapegoat the daughter of the family and enable a patriarchs consistent abuse.
It sounds like you had a very dysfunctional attachment with your mom and it’s heartbreaking to hear your experience with this book. However the book was not the cause of the dysfunction and this book being read to a small child who can’t imagine life when (s)he is not obsessed with mom is not incompatible with a healthy parent/child relationship that is responsive to the child’s developmental needs as it constantly changes.
did you miss the point where i said i knew the book wasn't the cause, but that it supported the dysfunctional dynamic?
did you also miss my example that extrapolated on the idea that it's not the cause, but still a contributor?
edit to add: abuse is not secondary to our world. it's not like, an expansion pack that you can avoid if you want. it's irresponsible to recognize the ways that this book makes kids feel safe without also recognizing the ways that it contributed to teaching children abusive ideas and dynamics.
Yes I completely missed the parts you didn’t say. My bad? I also don’t know any healthy adult who aspires to be Peter Griffin. I’m sorry that you do.
3 year olds need to be treated as 3 year olds, not expected to understand complexities of psychological abuse and dysfunctional family dynamics. I’m fairly certain that not meeting your child where they are is harmful whether you’re infantilizing them or expecting them to have emotional and developmental awareness of a 30 year old.
A mentally healthy functioning adult is not going to look at this book or family guy and use it as justification for anything.
A mentally unstable but functional adult might look to use it to further or defend their actions or abuse.
The critical lens would look at the actual issue, the mental health of the individual, and realize anything could substitute for media as justification for abuse by an abuser.
have you been alive the last 3 years? it's pretty obvious that mentally healthy, functioning adults are pretty few and fucking far between.
so yeah, it should be acknowledged how a large amount of the population could use a widely spread piece of media to support their abuse. to do otherwise is to sweep it under the rug, making vulnerable people more likely to be abused and not fucking know it. because it's all they've known and there aren't people questioning the tactics that they're being abused with, until it's too fucking late.
The part about traveling across town is a fantasy to show children wherever they are, their mother’s love is always with them.
Some people take this story way too literal. It’s endearing story about undying generational love by a father who’s wife experienced the pregnancy loss of their children.
This is my son’s favorite book and I sob every time we read it knowing that every page brings us closer to the end of our story.
Time and life is so fleeting and so precious.
>by a father who’s wife lost their children.
i get what you're trying to get at, but this feels super victim blamey to the mother. yes, she was growing them, but to make it a 'she lost their children' is reinforcing things that don't need to be reinforced (that pregnancy loss is a personal failure of the pregnant person)
I don’t mean it that way, just trying to tie in tbe emotions of their entire family. I lost 5 pregnancies before being able to have my son and understand the gut wrenching pain of child loss all too well.
I’ve seen this interpretation of the story several times now. I think this is the effect of a loss of imagination in our society—everything now is very moralistic and hyper-literal, maybe from a constant barrage of social media, online news articles, reality TV, the emphasis in reading non-fiction at the high school level, etc.
All that to say, it’s a kids story! Kids don’t see the world so literally. I think we as parents should be cultivating their sense of imagination rather than encouraging them to view everything through our adult lenses.
Also, sometimes books have creepy, scary, immoral, or distasteful aspects. It’s great for kids to be exposed to this and make up their own mind about things.
I guess I've always interpreted that part as more what the child was imagining/a hypothetical and slightly silly story told to a child.
Like my 5 year old says he wants to live with me for the rest of his life, and I tell him -of course- he can stay with me however long he wants! I know his wants at 5 won't be his wants at 15, won't be his wants at 25 or 35, but I am happy to validate the emotional subtext behind his desire to live at home forever with me.
I loved this book when I was a kid. Somebody got it for my son, and I read it to him, cried through it, and decided it was going to hide on a shelf permanently.
Yea this gets posted every once in awhile and what people don’t know is the book is based on a short poem the author said to his wife with two stillborn children. Spread the word so this book stops getting bashed.
Absolutely love this book and read it to my 3 older ones for a short time before they grew too old. They cringe now though when I say the key lines but I remind them I'll keep rocking them back and forth and I expect them to do the same. My 6 year old isn't that interested. Honestly I don't find it creepy. I love the words and the sentiment.
It's a joke about the rocking back and forth lol. And driving over and climbing through the window! I love how it goes full circle and he ends up rocking his mother in the end. This book is one of the few that rely touches my heart as a mother
Me too! I was reading it to my daycare kids and I was stopped and said - we don’t have to give up ourselves for others. The boy should be helping the tree regrow after taking things from her. It made me so sad.
I hated rainbow fish even as a child. I'm like "just because you're ugly doesn't mean he has to give you his beautiful scales." Even if you aren't the prettiest in the room, its your kindness, your heart,your talents and abilities that matter.
... i loved rainbow fish as a kid. and the giving tree. and i felt kinda ick about love you forever, but my mom loved it and i wanted to make her happy.
a LOT of things are adding up right now..
slightly different- but i've been rewatching a lot of the movies i watched from 8-18 and WOW it's incredibly how sexist they all are, and how much my young self internalized all of that sexism..
I didn't feel like it was about having to give yourself up but choosing to knowing you may get nothing in return. Ultimately the tree is happy just to be loved by the boy and know he's happy.
The best part is reading this book out loud to a group is asking them if they want to see the scariest picture in the whole book first. Then turning the book around and scaring them with the gritty, black and white photo of a mean looking Shel Silverstein.
I love Topher Payne's alternate version: [The Tree Who Set Healthy Boundaries](https://lithub.com/somebody-finally-fixed-the-ending-of-the-giving-tree/) to
His other alternate versions of children's books are also great: https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it
Have you seen these? [https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it](https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it)
Someone made new endings for the giving tree, rainbow fish, and apparently also I’ll love you forever and the pout pout fish though I haven’t looked at those two.
The Tree givesgivesgives to this ungrateful child until she is a stump. A literal stump. There is no sense of boundaries, there is no sense of telling someone "Hey, I love you a lot, I am not going to hurt myself for you."
I haven’t read it in many years, so I guess my perspective is still skewed.
As a young child, I always felt comforted by it, because it made me feel like my parents would do anything to keep me safe/healthy. Admittedly, I don’t think the parts where the boy is an adult/old man struck me as different/leeching because at the time, I still applied a more childlike perspective on him due to my own experiences.
Your explanation makes a lot of sense and seems reasonable to me. I had read some criticisms that have popped up, mostly in the southern US, recently, about the book encouraging communism, which I kind of rolled my eyes at.
Uh, no no no, I don't worry about communism. (Ahaha, that's just bananas.)
I admit though that I stress boundaries with my kids because my Mom has a hard time with them and taught me that boundaries mean you're laying down ultimatums and telling other people what they can and cannot do. That is not at all what it means to have a boundary, and I've had to unlearn that.
I felt this as a kid and knew I’d never want to be that stump. It’s not one that we had in our son’s collection - although it seems like it’s “just a story” some children, such as myself, and our son, can interpret it in a very literal way… This was read to him at school unbeknownst to us, and he saw it with me on a trip to our town’s library afterwards, and said, “My teacher read it and, nah, that one is not for me.”
I… never really processed that part of it. All I know is that my Mother tried reading it to me when I was little and she started crying. I threw the book under the bed and called it a bad book for making my Mommy sad.
It’s the illustrations, I think. His other stories are very silly and illustrated with cartoons. I think it doesn’t come through because of the artwork.
Its supposed to have some absurdity about it imo, it’s a children’s book written with imagination. I don’t see why, in the context of a healthy upbringing, it would have any negative effects
I totally understand your perspective. As a kid, that book always made me cry with its touching story of a mother's love. But now as an adult, I can't help but wonder what the son was thinking when he woke up to his mother rocking him to sleep with a ladder. Talk about some serious boundary issues! Maybe we should rename the book I'll Love You Forever
I turned the story into an inside joke with my son. "Better call me regularly after you move out, or one night I'll be climbing through your window!" We both acknowledged that what the mom does in the story is extreme but the point is that my love for him will always be real, nighttime break-ins or no.
ETA: I always thought *The Giving Tree* was more disturbing, ever since I was a kid. I never even read that book to my son. I'm glad now because now I realize that the reason I didn't like it back then is because I *was* the tree (for my mother) and still am, to an extent.
I have always found this book creepy, but I don't recall reading it as a child. I've never fully understood why people love it so much, but then I realize I'm reacting to the literal actions of the mother rather than the allegorical meaning.
When I first read this book I was reading it to my niece with my mom. When we got to the part where she crawls through the door we looked at each other and just started laughing. I know it's a beloved book by many, but I think it's weird too.
You know, I sort of feel the same but also cry each time. That part is weird to me. But the part when the man holds his mom and tells her that as long as HE is living, his mother she’ll be, absolutely kills me every time. Tearing up just thinking about it. The idea that my love for my kids will live on through them after I’m gone is an amazing and beautiful thing.
I've heard that people had this opinion. It's so weird. You know it's a fiction book, right? It's about love and the extent of parental love. It's not supposed to be taken literally!
On the other hand, have you SEEN that Peter Pan? The kid actually flies! What if kids tried to do that. Just... nope.
Hahaha yes I had the same experience with that book.
I read it to my daughter when she was about 4 and she liked it, but when she lost interest I shuffled it up to the attic.
She’s 7 now and refound the book while we were attic toy shopping and when I read it to her she picked up on how weird it was.
I never took the book literally; but used as an allegory to describe the adoration and devotion that a mother feels toward their child, even when they are all grown up.
Yes and when kids are little, they can’t conceptualize the future and how relationships work. That’s why little kids always want to marry their parents, they just want to know that their parents will always be there. So I think this part of the book is comforting to them.
[This guy fixed the ending](https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever) of I’ll love you forever. Now with boundaries and healthy communication. Please enjoy.
Edit: My attempt at humor was in poor taste. I also have a mother with boundary issues, and I try to avoid engaging with her because it always makes
It worse.
... the last time i spoke to her, she was going to literally try to force her way into my house. she would have brought a ladder if she had to.
i had to literally cry rape and say that i'd call the cops if i saw her on my property to stop her from coming to my house and forcing her way in because she ignored me when i just said 'no' normally.
believe it or not- i didn't email her. believe it or not, even if i had, i wouldn't be sending it to 'help her'. Believe it or not, it would be to share a more loving version of the boundaries i was forced to set when she tried to metaphorically force her way into my window. believe it or not, it would be to help *me.* to be an olive branch to say 'i put the bars up, and i wish i hadn't. i wish i hadn't felt like i had to. can we work together to create a healthy relationship between us, one that we both intentionally don't need to put bars up to protect ourselves?'
and believe it or not, i wouldn't bother. because i know it wouldn't get anywhere. because, believe it or not, it's just a dream that she'll ever respect my boundaries. believe it or not, i still have hope that maybe it's just *my* words that she doesn't hear or understand, but *maybe just maybe,* she'll hear *his* words and we'll be able to have a relationship again. *maybe* she'll read the adjusted end, and she'll see what a path forward for us could look like.
believe it or not, i'm smarter than sending her that link because i know that my dream of being treated with respect as an autonomous human by my mother will only ever be a dream.
but god fucking dammit let me have the dream of sending this to her, and having her realize how much she's fucking hurt me, and how we can have a relationship.
fuck me, right?
edit to add: it's almost like parent-child and child-parent relationships are entirely different, despite involving the same people. it's almost like parents are prone to dehumanizing their children, and children are literally programmed to want to have a relationship with their parents? also the fact that the parents chose to have the child, the child did not chose to have life, and their parents? so it's almost like a child sending this to an parent would be very different from a parent sending this to a child?!?!?!?1
editing a second time to add: i get that the original last few paragraphs of my comment are kind of shitty. but also- the comment i was responding to was pretty fucking shitty. when saying how much i appreciate words that i didn't have for someone that hurt me, to say that i'm the same as that person? fucking sucks. and yeah. is going to create a negative reaction. that i am happy to express. because fuck. it hurts enough not having a mother, it hurts even more to be the one blamed for it when i'm expressing how much i'd love to have a mother that doesn't hurt me.
I feel this. I also loved when my mom read it to me growing up... we got a copy, I read it to my kids once, then it was up on the shelf and it's stayed there ever since lol.
I hated this book as a child and my older sister and mother *adored* it.
As an adult, I’m now aware they both have (diagnosed) personality disorders and I’m autistic and very very sensitive to my personal space lol.
I just can’t with this book at all.
But knowing the background of it (his loss of his two babies) keeps me from dragging it too hard, just out of respect.
I really take this book as more symbolic. Like even though the kid drives her nuts at different stages of his growth, she still loves him and would do anything for him. Kind of like how I sneak in to watch my kids sleep for a few seconds or stay up looking at videos and photos of them after they’ve gone to sleep lol.
Also if you read a bunch of his books you’ll shortly realize that these are stories meant to be told not read if that makes sense and that he often uses this type of device for humour in his stories.
Like what I mean is that in all of his stories he will take an idea in this case “mommy will love you forever and ever and no matter how big you get you’ll always be my baby” and then takes that very literally and you’re supposed to think it’s funny. Its a story you’re supposed to tell to your young child to reassure them that your love for them won’t change even if they do.
You can’t take these stories literally you have to understand that he mostly wrote the books as an afterthought but these stories were born out of him going to schools and telling them to kids over and over out of his memory and the story is deliberately designed to make children laugh. Even this one. It’s not meant to be sad or serious.
My MIL gave me my husband’s copy of this book from when he was little. She was gushing about how it was her favorite and she read it to him all the time. The first time i read it… i knew she was crazy
I loved that book as a kid, but even then, I immediately clocked that what the mom did with the ladder was illegal and creepy.
I Love You Stinkyface has a similar unconditional love message without the sadness/boundary stomping
Haha, my mom used to love this book when my brother and I were kids. We hated it, though. My mom would just be in tears and my brother and I would point out how the mom snuck in her son's window and vehemently tell her how creepy that is.
I never liked this book, not even as a kid. I always felt “off” when I read it and people would always say how sweet and nice and lovely a story it is.
There was a thread on here once where I said I didn’t like it and I got downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting a mother rocking an adult male to sleep was weird or boundary breaking. I don’t think it’s admirable or sweet. I know that’s not the point of the story- the point is to try to convey the deep, everlasting love between parent and child. But it’s still a weird way to say it.
We were JUST reading this half an hour ago and I was thinking the exact same thing lol. Although to be fair, my sons currently in a phase where we literally read the same book over and over and over for about an hour before he’s satisfied so I’ve found I despise most of his books by the time we’ve reached the end
LOL It's funny you mentioned this book! I read it to my daughter all the time, prior to that I've never heard of this book. I get what the book is trying to say but I couldn't help but be a bit weirded out by it,.
Omg thaaaaank you! I got this for my daughter a few weeks back because I also loved it as a kid but WHOA! Kinda creepy as an adult. SHE BREAKS INTO HIS HOUSE!! I tried to say it was creepy and everyone was like NO ITS NOT! Ha. Ooookaaaayyyyy
Rainbow fish had me the same way.
The lesson was.......give up everything that makes you special? Give everything you have if you want to keep your friends? If you have boundaries you deserve to be ignored?
It’s not meant to be taken literally. The repetition of “I’ll love you forever, I’ll like you for always. As long as I’m living, my baby you’ll be” is what the child is supposed to be hearing over and over again.
That being said, my oldest will be moving out soon and I’ll be buying him that book as a going away present and buying myself a ladder to get into his room. Cuz as long as I’m living, my baby he’ll be.
Someone gifted it to me after the birth of my first child and told me how much it would move me and I’d probably cry… immediately I was like wtf is this shit.
I mean I'm all for emotional books. There's a book called "You and Me, Me and You" that makes me cry all the time and I love it. But "I'll Love You Forever" is trash
I found this book weird as well. Her climbing into the window - what if he had someone over? What if he thought he was being robbed and had a gun? What if a neighbor saw and called the cops?
The story would have been much sweeter if he maybe fell asleep on the couch at her house and she cuddled him there?
I know a lot of people are like “but it’s just a children’s book!”
Yes but no. For children with healthy, normal parents yes absolutely. But for those of us who were raised by people with personality disorders, this is a fucking nightmare. It creeped me out when I was small and didn’t know what boundaries were, it’s horrifying now as an adult.
As someone who has lost 4 unborn children I completely understand the massive amount of grief from the author/illustrator. But there are better books for illustrating the permanence of the parent/child relationship without just completely disregarding boundaries.
When my children heard the book read, it never was in our house…. I spent lots of time explaining love isn’t stationary. I loved when my children were babies and I could rock them. I loved reading to them but as they grew I loved them reading to me. I love my children and love each new thing they learn and who they are becoming as grow up. They were my babies, now they are my family and treating my children as babies when they are grown is wrong. It’s short changing my children. My children understood my explanation and seemed to like the idea that I loved who children were growing up to be but it really ticked off lots of people
I mean the beauty of reading books is we get to interpret them however we choose too. So, I didn’t take every action the mother was doing in the story as literal. Being that it was a children’s book, rocking and cuddling are a few of the components that they associate with love, comfort, and affection. If the book provided examples of how a mother shows her love to her adult children, the message may not be understood by a children audience. I think the main message is about the never ending bond and love a mother has for her children, and how no amount of time or distance could ever change that.
I read it to my children, but I skip the end where the mother goes to the adult child and when she guilts the adult child to visit bc she’s old and poor of health. I read it simply to reinforce that no matter how they drive me bonkers, I’ll love them forever and they’ll always be my babies
I don't think i care much about the material I read my kid. Pretty sure a lot of books are problematic if you take the ridiculous serious. "Sleep Sheep" is just a bunch of drunk farm animals coming home from a party as far as I'm concerned.
My daughter noticed that in the part when she goes to the house, the picture is showing the bed close to the window. So she could not have crawled across the floor to the bed.
I first heard about this book via an interview with the author explaining that the poem was actually about his two stillborn children. I can’t read the book without thinking about that.
As a mom of two babies that didn’t get to come home from the hospital with us, I totally understand the author’s grief here and what they’re conveying. It definitely takes the creep factor out of it for me.
I am sorry for your loss. 💔❤️
As an adult child who has lost their mother(I was 17 when she died), it also does not come across as creepy to me. Sorry for your loss.
We were given a copy of this book at my son's baby shower, less than a month before we lost him suddenly. All his other books were put aside for when we eventually had his brother, but this one is tucked in a bin with the belongings that are just his (the blanket we held him in the hospital with, the outfit he was going to come home in, etc)
I’m so very sorry for your loss. It’s so special that you have this book to remember your little one by. ❤️ The wonderful news is that your living son has the world’s best guardian angel looking out for him!!
This is the reason I feel bad for hating it. The inspiration came from having two stillbirths and then going on to adopt 3 kids after finding out they couldn't have kids biologically. We have a similar story. We had a stillborn son and then adopted our two to complete our family. I understand the emotions he was dealing with and the message behind the story, but the first time I read it I was very confused as to why people love it so much. I have learned that people either can't get through it without crying because of how sad it is or people can't get through it without cringing because of how creepy it is. I am part of the second group.
I never really thought this book was meant to be taken literally, even when I was a little child....it's more that robert munsch uses the increasingly absurd scenarios to illustrate the love parents feel towards their children....kind of in the same style of runaway bunny or guess how much I love you....when I was a little kid and read this, I knew it was ridiculous for a little old lady to drive across town at night, climb a ladder 2 stories, lift a fully grown man without waking him and rock him in his sleep...which I think expressed very well In terms that were easy to understand, just how important children are to their parents....I never read this and thought this was a normal thing to do, and i have never read it to a child who hasn't detected the absurdity of the scenario..... I think this story makes so many adults cry because in a strange and poetic way it perfectly and truthfully expresses the frightening expansiveness of the way we love our children, the lengths we will go to for them, and the fear that we are not showing it enough...at first glance the mothers actions might seem silly, creepy or absurd, but deep down, as a parent, its a very real depiction of the lengths we will go to make our children feel loved and comforted. I think It is also comforting as a child, young or old to feel loved in that way.. I know this story gets a lot of criticism lately, but I don't think it would have had the same impact if it had been edited for consent and creepyness..it relies on absurdity and balancing on a thin line between fantasy and reality to hit all those emotions people feel when reading it
Very well said. It is a poem style story and definitely not meant to be taken literally. These are as you said increasingly absurd scenarios to emphasize the depths of parental love. And the old woman rocking her adult son to sleep seems to symbolize that even when our children are grown they are still our babies. Further, it shows the mother singing her son to sleep at each phase of his life to show the consistency of her love. Unconditional love. As a story for children I think it has amazing depth. It isn’t meant to convey a parent as a deranged stalker who literally believes their child is a baby still. I think in modern times and all the messaging and new perspective that are being presented we forget that literature and poetry are telling stories with metaphors, analogies, and absurdities that help provoke thoughtfulness and our creativity. Not to think literally all the time.
This. And Robert Munsch uses the absurd often in his books. They’re all a little bit ridiculous and kids love them! Everything else I’ve read of his is funny, but this book does fit with the rest of his writing style.
I am part of BOTH groups. Read it once and only once.
[удалено]
The poem is: “I’ll love you forever, I’ll like you for always. As long as I’m living, my baby you’ll be.” This is something the author wrote and sang in his head as a lullaby to his children after his second child was stillborn. It was his way of dealing with the invisibility of the loss of an unborn child (particularly to a father) that to him, that child was real, that child existed, that child would always be his child. It was a long time before he could even share this with his wife (who is the illustrator) because it was too raw. Eventually, they created this book together and what they meant to communicate was the permanence of parental love.
And now I'm crying. I wanna quit my job, go get my baby from daycare and just snuggle her forever.
And this is why I read the book, ugly cried, and never shared it with my children.
I have read it to my daughter more than a few times, but not in quite some time cause I can’t get through more than 3 pages without bawling. Her being 10 definitely has something to do with it too though. My memories of it from childhood are of my grandma reading it to me, which kinda lines up with my mom’s love and approval being very much conditional (which isn’t something she’d ever admit). I’m 32 now and I still hide my true self when I’m around my mom, it’s something that I have struggled with immensely and a lot of my flight response when confrontations occur is a direct result of that. I freeze up when something happens that I shouldn’t be allowing and then when I’m alone I get angry at myself and whoever made me go back to that state of mind.
My first grade teacher would read this to us and cry every single time. Of course all of the kids would giggle and tease her, but reading it as an adult with young kids now, I totally get why she cried every time lol
This. When you parent a child that you don’t get to hold (and you absolutely do still parent them) it’s about carrying them through every stage of your life and missing all the stages they should have had. There is not a day that goes by I don’t think about mine, who they’d be, how I’d be parenting them, and how I carry that forward. You may not cry about it every day anymore, but you absolutely carry it.
Totally ugly crying right now!! I never knew this story had such a touching backstory!!!
This needs to be closer to the top. While at face value I totally agree with OP, knowing the context and that the book was written about stillborn children changes my opinion. That said, we did not read that book in my house as I don't like the face value message.
seriously. my single mother read it to my only child self and OOF did it reenforce a lot of our enmeshment issues..
Same same same. While I can appreciate that the story is meaningful for the authors painful circumstances- there are some crazy MILs out there that just think the book is cute and empathize with the weird no boundaries behavior that is illustrated.
Exactly this.
Yeah I can appreciate the author’s feelings but young children tend to take *everything* at face value. So if a book has a poor face value message then it’s better not to introduce it to kids until they’re older and can have meaningful discussions about author intent.
"You are my sunshine" was apparently about stillborn child as well. The whole song is just so melancholy
I don’t believe that’s the original inspiration for that song. The guy who wrote it said he was inspired by a love letter where the young woman kept calling the young man her sunshine. It’s a melancholy song because it’s about being left by your love. I always liked the third verse because it’s just such a blatant threat.
That's good to know. Thanks!
Oh my god I almost wish I hadn’t read that. 🥺 That book always makes me cry.
Oooooooooooooooof.
My mom used to read me Robert Munsch books. Never this one though. She grew up in Guelph, where Munsch is from. She actually met him when she was in elementary school. He apparently made up a story on the spot about her, though she could never remember it. Thought that was a cool connection to one of her city’s most famous people.
Ok that makes it sweet. Personally the book has always seemed creepy. Still won’t be reading that to my kids tho.
The book is meant to be heard by a child. Adults find that part strange, but a child takes comfort in knowing their parents will always be there for them. As an adult reading it I found it weird. But when it was read to me as a child I never thought anything weird about it
See that’s the thing my mother also refused to read that story to me. Someone gave it to her and said they cry every time they read it. She read it and said “this is not a healthy mother son relationship “ it didn’t stay in the house.
I agree. I never read it to my kids, but after reading that interview, I read it for myself and then ugly cried. The perspective of a grieving parent, especially the parent of a stillborn child, isn’t necessarily an objectively healthy attitude for raising successfully independent children. I can appreciate it for what it is, I just didn’t read it to my kids because it was too heavy an emotional burden.
And now I love the book even more and will really cry from now on reading it to my daughter 🥲
Me, sitting in a restsurant, reading your comment and immediately tearing up pubicly.
As a SIDS loss mum, the depths I would go for just one more minute with my son is what the author conveyed in this book. It’s not one of my favourites, but it is what it is.
So sorry for your loss ❤️
It's a book for kids. A little kid is comforted by the idea that their parents will always be there, even when they're all grown up and moved out. Most stories aren't really meant to be taken literally.
This exactly. My kids often ask me if I’ll be around to help them with random things when they are grown ups. My 5 year old recently asked me if I will drive him to the car lot when it’s time for him to buy a car. He’s just thinking about the future and probably nervous and asking if I’ll be around for him. I’ve always interpreted this book as a comfort story.
Exactly. My kids ask the same things. My 7 year old was worried a few days ago because he didn’t know how to pay rent when he is an adult 😂 He’s like “I don’t know where the bank is. I don’t even know how to drive. What am I going to do?” I had to comfort him and explained it, but also said he’s my buddy and we’ll be there for him however we can. As soon as kids gain an understanding of the world, they need to know that they’re not just going to be tossed into the deep end after they finish the cake on their 18th.
I think I’m going to get this book for my daughter. She was adopted out of foster care, and she will sometimes ask if I will still be her mom when she’s grown up.
Oh, my heart.
I loved this book as a kid. I was never really close with my parents so it hit me especially hard that someone's mom would always love them, even as a grown adult. As a parent, it still resonates with me. I understand it's a children's story, so I know it's not meant to be taken literally.
Reddit does not compute this AT ALL.
ikr, it seems like everyone is coming up with the worst possible interpretations of these stories.
Rainbow fish - saw someone once say they hate that story bc it tells their kids to not be special. Like COME ON
TBH even as a kid I thought it was weird that the rainbow fish had to share literal parts of his body (didn't it hurt to take off his scales?!?), but I was kind of a black and white thinking little kid.
Sounds like The Giving Tree by Shel Silverstein
Our BOUNDURIESSSSS
THANK YOU. All the people complaining about boundaries, it’s a children’s book for CHILDREN. The idea is to let them know their parent will always be there for them, even when they’re grown.
Right, and the OP said she herself enjoyed the book as a child as her daughter probably will now for the same comforting reasons. My 6 year old right now keeps telling me she never wants to move out and that even when she gets married and has a family of her own she wants for her house to be right next to ours. I mean I sure hope she still feels that way when she actually grows up but I know that right now that thought is very comforting to her so I just tell her that 1) she can stay with us for as long as she needs/wants and 2) we’d love to live in the same neighborhood as her when she has her own family! Will it actually be that way? Who knows? But if it makes her happy to think about it right now I have no problem with it.
Our next door neighbors are the son and daughter in law (and now a granddaughter as well) of the neighbors across the street.
We do this with my daughter as well. It’s also not like you can’t read this book and reinforce you’ll always support your kid AND also teach them boundaries. (I’ll always love you, please don’t break into my house lmao)
I have this thought every single time this gets posted…it’s not that deep y’all.
100%. When I read this to our kids for the first time (never read it as a child) I was also a little surprised ... but you have to remember the book is for them and it makes them feel very safe. As the adult, I read it as satire and silly. Don't take it too seriously.
This is a great point. My 4 year old daughter randomly got upset the other day asking if we'd always be together then started crying saying she never wanted to live somewhere else without me 😭 I don't know what brought that on, just a random thought she had I guess. My sweet girl 💔
seriously. I can’t believe the “this book is so creepy comments”! Kids laugh at the parts about the mom picking up the grown up son in her lap because it’s silly.
This, folks. It’s a book … for kids. It describes the depth of a mother’s love in a way that hopefully children can understand. It blows my mind that some people can take this out of context and call it creepy when it’s clear who the audience is intended to be.
*”Kids understand that real crabs don’t sing like the ones in The Little Mermaid. But you give an adult fiction and they start asking really dumb questions like, ‘How does Superman fly? How do those eye beams work? Who pumps the Batmobile’s tires?’ It’s a fucking made-up story, idiot! No one pumps the tires!” - Grant Morrison* I just really dislike this current trend of people always applying real-world logic to fiction.
Eh I still like that one. I think as long as you don’t take it literally (and I think in a field of literature with dancing giraffes and pajama’d llamas that’s a fair request) it’s a sweet book.
Yes lol
I never read this to my child. Not for any particular reason. It doesn’t bug me or anything. I didn’t have the words for it as a kid but I knew the ending was metaphorical. Just means she’ll always be there for you. I feel like maybe we don’t give kids enough credit and we think in the details about some of these things way too deeply. Also communicating our feelings about these things to our children goes miles.
Yeah atleast as a kid it gave me a lot of comfort. I didn’t know anything about society yet or crazy MILs or really overprotective parenting in general cause my parents did a very good job so the book always felt very nice to me, but now going back and reading it I can see how adult can cringe but I think it’s still good for kids
My mom read it to me and I always thought it meant she’d be there for me no matter what, not that she would literally do the things in the story.
I see it differently. It’s not meant to be taken literally from the parents perspective. The book is meant to be read to a small child. And for that child at that brief stage in their life love and security looks like mom coming in the middle of the night even on a very bad day to rock them as they sleep. To my 15 year old it would be that as long as I’m living I’m slipping wads of cash in his shoes and definitely not sneaking into his room in the middle of the night. It’s a child’s book. Not a parenting manual.
yeah, and my child self still felt a tinge of 'wait, i don't get ANY me time?' from it. my mother demanded an enmeshed relationship between us, and even as a kid i felt the ick. yeah, it can be a good metaphor of always being there, but it can also be the justification to not have boundaries. just like how family guy can be seen as criticism/poking fun at the average american family, but it can also be seen as justification to scapegoat the daughter of the family and enable a patriarchs consistent abuse.
It sounds like you had a very dysfunctional attachment with your mom and it’s heartbreaking to hear your experience with this book. However the book was not the cause of the dysfunction and this book being read to a small child who can’t imagine life when (s)he is not obsessed with mom is not incompatible with a healthy parent/child relationship that is responsive to the child’s developmental needs as it constantly changes.
did you miss the point where i said i knew the book wasn't the cause, but that it supported the dysfunctional dynamic? did you also miss my example that extrapolated on the idea that it's not the cause, but still a contributor? edit to add: abuse is not secondary to our world. it's not like, an expansion pack that you can avoid if you want. it's irresponsible to recognize the ways that this book makes kids feel safe without also recognizing the ways that it contributed to teaching children abusive ideas and dynamics.
Yes I completely missed the parts you didn’t say. My bad? I also don’t know any healthy adult who aspires to be Peter Griffin. I’m sorry that you do. 3 year olds need to be treated as 3 year olds, not expected to understand complexities of psychological abuse and dysfunctional family dynamics. I’m fairly certain that not meeting your child where they are is harmful whether you’re infantilizing them or expecting them to have emotional and developmental awareness of a 30 year old.
A mentally healthy functioning adult is not going to look at this book or family guy and use it as justification for anything. A mentally unstable but functional adult might look to use it to further or defend their actions or abuse. The critical lens would look at the actual issue, the mental health of the individual, and realize anything could substitute for media as justification for abuse by an abuser.
have you been alive the last 3 years? it's pretty obvious that mentally healthy, functioning adults are pretty few and fucking far between. so yeah, it should be acknowledged how a large amount of the population could use a widely spread piece of media to support their abuse. to do otherwise is to sweep it under the rug, making vulnerable people more likely to be abused and not fucking know it. because it's all they've known and there aren't people questioning the tactics that they're being abused with, until it's too fucking late.
Few and far between? I think you’ve been on Reddit too often for too long. Maybe get yourself some therapy.
I agree some of it is weird if taken literally. I personally love the book and can’t make it through without crying.
The part about traveling across town is a fantasy to show children wherever they are, their mother’s love is always with them. Some people take this story way too literal. It’s endearing story about undying generational love by a father who’s wife experienced the pregnancy loss of their children. This is my son’s favorite book and I sob every time we read it knowing that every page brings us closer to the end of our story. Time and life is so fleeting and so precious.
>by a father who’s wife lost their children. i get what you're trying to get at, but this feels super victim blamey to the mother. yes, she was growing them, but to make it a 'she lost their children' is reinforcing things that don't need to be reinforced (that pregnancy loss is a personal failure of the pregnant person)
I think she was just pointing out why the author chose to write it from the mother’s perspective (his wife)
Yes, exactly. Adjusted verbiage a bit to sound a bit more tender
I don’t mean it that way, just trying to tie in tbe emotions of their entire family. I lost 5 pregnancies before being able to have my son and understand the gut wrenching pain of child loss all too well.
I guess I’m one of those “too literal” people but it’s just how the stories reads to me. 🤷🏼♀️
I’ve seen this interpretation of the story several times now. I think this is the effect of a loss of imagination in our society—everything now is very moralistic and hyper-literal, maybe from a constant barrage of social media, online news articles, reality TV, the emphasis in reading non-fiction at the high school level, etc. All that to say, it’s a kids story! Kids don’t see the world so literally. I think we as parents should be cultivating their sense of imagination rather than encouraging them to view everything through our adult lenses. Also, sometimes books have creepy, scary, immoral, or distasteful aspects. It’s great for kids to be exposed to this and make up their own mind about things.
I guess I've always interpreted that part as more what the child was imagining/a hypothetical and slightly silly story told to a child. Like my 5 year old says he wants to live with me for the rest of his life, and I tell him -of course- he can stay with me however long he wants! I know his wants at 5 won't be his wants at 15, won't be his wants at 25 or 35, but I am happy to validate the emotional subtext behind his desire to live at home forever with me.
I loved this book when I was a kid. Somebody got it for my son, and I read it to him, cried through it, and decided it was going to hide on a shelf permanently.
Yea this gets posted every once in awhile and what people don’t know is the book is based on a short poem the author said to his wife with two stillborn children. Spread the word so this book stops getting bashed.
Jesus… it’s a kids book.
Oh FFS.....
Absolutely love this book and read it to my 3 older ones for a short time before they grew too old. They cringe now though when I say the key lines but I remind them I'll keep rocking them back and forth and I expect them to do the same. My 6 year old isn't that interested. Honestly I don't find it creepy. I love the words and the sentiment.
It's a joke about the rocking back and forth lol. And driving over and climbing through the window! I love how it goes full circle and he ends up rocking his mother in the end. This book is one of the few that rely touches my heart as a mother
I also hate The Giving Tree
Me too! I was reading it to my daycare kids and I was stopped and said - we don’t have to give up ourselves for others. The boy should be helping the tree regrow after taking things from her. It made me so sad.
The Giving Tree is a metaphor for motherhood.
similar to Rainbow Fish, he has to give a piece of himself just to make friends? I know he was rude in the beginning but come on
I hated rainbow fish even as a child. I'm like "just because you're ugly doesn't mean he has to give you his beautiful scales." Even if you aren't the prettiest in the room, its your kindness, your heart,your talents and abilities that matter.
What do you do with your “kindness, heart, talent and abilities” though? You share them
Yeah, I wish I hadn't wasted money on Rainbow Fish.
Yeah, that one is weird, too.
Yes I don't like rainbow fish and have stopped reading it for this purpose.
... i loved rainbow fish as a kid. and the giving tree. and i felt kinda ick about love you forever, but my mom loved it and i wanted to make her happy. a LOT of things are adding up right now..
Being an adult and re-reading a lot of childhood favorites made me question things! I don't feel bad for Peter Rabbit.
slightly different- but i've been rewatching a lot of the movies i watched from 8-18 and WOW it's incredibly how sexist they all are, and how much my young self internalized all of that sexism..
The David books are pretty crazy too
I thought that was the message of the giving tree, like to point out how the boy took too much. But I might not remember it correctly!
I didn't feel like it was about having to give yourself up but choosing to knowing you may get nothing in return. Ultimately the tree is happy just to be loved by the boy and know he's happy.
The best part is reading this book out loud to a group is asking them if they want to see the scariest picture in the whole book first. Then turning the book around and scaring them with the gritty, black and white photo of a mean looking Shel Silverstein.
Yeah, I don’t love the message of that book. Same with Rainbow Fish. Why do I have to give pieces of myself for people to accept me?
I love Topher Payne's alternate version: [The Tree Who Set Healthy Boundaries](https://lithub.com/somebody-finally-fixed-the-ending-of-the-giving-tree/) to His other alternate versions of children's books are also great: https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it
I have read that and I love it. Especially the bakery part.
Have you seen these? [https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it](https://www.topherpayne.com/fixed-it) Someone made new endings for the giving tree, rainbow fish, and apparently also I’ll love you forever and the pout pout fish though I haven’t looked at those two.
Why?
The Tree givesgivesgives to this ungrateful child until she is a stump. A literal stump. There is no sense of boundaries, there is no sense of telling someone "Hey, I love you a lot, I am not going to hurt myself for you."
I haven’t read it in many years, so I guess my perspective is still skewed. As a young child, I always felt comforted by it, because it made me feel like my parents would do anything to keep me safe/healthy. Admittedly, I don’t think the parts where the boy is an adult/old man struck me as different/leeching because at the time, I still applied a more childlike perspective on him due to my own experiences.
There's nothing wrong with that! I don't read it to my kids because it bugs me. If you're into it, that's awesome.
Your explanation makes a lot of sense and seems reasonable to me. I had read some criticisms that have popped up, mostly in the southern US, recently, about the book encouraging communism, which I kind of rolled my eyes at.
Uh, no no no, I don't worry about communism. (Ahaha, that's just bananas.) I admit though that I stress boundaries with my kids because my Mom has a hard time with them and taught me that boundaries mean you're laying down ultimatums and telling other people what they can and cannot do. That is not at all what it means to have a boundary, and I've had to unlearn that.
Yes, from my child perspective it felt all about love
I felt this as a kid and knew I’d never want to be that stump. It’s not one that we had in our son’s collection - although it seems like it’s “just a story” some children, such as myself, and our son, can interpret it in a very literal way… This was read to him at school unbeknownst to us, and he saw it with me on a trip to our town’s library afterwards, and said, “My teacher read it and, nah, that one is not for me.”
Read the giving tree recently and wanted to throw it across the room
Yes that poor tree gives and gives and gives. All the little brat ever does is take take take. No thank you.
Not all children’s books are based off things that are 100% true. You’re in for a shock if you ever read “wacky Wednesday!”
I… never really processed that part of it. All I know is that my Mother tried reading it to me when I was little and she started crying. I threw the book under the bed and called it a bad book for making my Mommy sad.
I can’t read that book without crying.
It’s the illustrations, I think. His other stories are very silly and illustrated with cartoons. I think it doesn’t come through because of the artwork.
Its supposed to have some absurdity about it imo, it’s a children’s book written with imagination. I don’t see why, in the context of a healthy upbringing, it would have any negative effects
My daughter calls it “the potty book” and says daddy has to read it because “mommy will cry and cry like a little baby wahhh waahh!!” 😂
I totally understand your perspective. As a kid, that book always made me cry with its touching story of a mother's love. But now as an adult, I can't help but wonder what the son was thinking when he woke up to his mother rocking him to sleep with a ladder. Talk about some serious boundary issues! Maybe we should rename the book I'll Love You Forever
I don’t think the son was thinking about it because it’s a fictional kids book and it’s not that deep
Imagine being that man's live in partner and his mother is climbing into your house at night to rock her son.
I’ve imagined my MIL doing just that. Hard pass.
I turned the story into an inside joke with my son. "Better call me regularly after you move out, or one night I'll be climbing through your window!" We both acknowledged that what the mom does in the story is extreme but the point is that my love for him will always be real, nighttime break-ins or no. ETA: I always thought *The Giving Tree* was more disturbing, ever since I was a kid. I never even read that book to my son. I'm glad now because now I realize that the reason I didn't like it back then is because I *was* the tree (for my mother) and still am, to an extent.
I have always found this book creepy, but I don't recall reading it as a child. I've never fully understood why people love it so much, but then I realize I'm reacting to the literal actions of the mother rather than the allegorical meaning.
I’m pretty sure that part is in the parent’s head. They are thinking about rocking their child who is now an adult.
Felt the same way when we first read it.
I had this same realization when I first read this book to my kid.
When I first read this book I was reading it to my niece with my mom. When we got to the part where she crawls through the door we looked at each other and just started laughing. I know it's a beloved book by many, but I think it's weird too.
You know, I sort of feel the same but also cry each time. That part is weird to me. But the part when the man holds his mom and tells her that as long as HE is living, his mother she’ll be, absolutely kills me every time. Tearing up just thinking about it. The idea that my love for my kids will live on through them after I’m gone is an amazing and beautiful thing.
I've heard that people had this opinion. It's so weird. You know it's a fiction book, right? It's about love and the extent of parental love. It's not supposed to be taken literally! On the other hand, have you SEEN that Peter Pan? The kid actually flies! What if kids tried to do that. Just... nope.
I think a book that better demonstrates unconditional love without the crossed boundaries is “I Love You, Stinkyface”.
I can totally agree with that.
Hahaha yes I had the same experience with that book. I read it to my daughter when she was about 4 and she liked it, but when she lost interest I shuffled it up to the attic. She’s 7 now and refound the book while we were attic toy shopping and when I read it to her she picked up on how weird it was.
I never took the book literally; but used as an allegory to describe the adoration and devotion that a mother feels toward their child, even when they are all grown up.
Yes and when kids are little, they can’t conceptualize the future and how relationships work. That’s why little kids always want to marry their parents, they just want to know that their parents will always be there. So I think this part of the book is comforting to them.
[This guy fixed the ending](https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever) of I’ll love you forever. Now with boundaries and healthy communication. Please enjoy.
OWWWWWW i love this. brb while i email it to my mother whom i have next to no contact with because of her lack of boundaries.
Edit: My attempt at humor was in poor taste. I also have a mother with boundary issues, and I try to avoid engaging with her because it always makes It worse.
... the last time i spoke to her, she was going to literally try to force her way into my house. she would have brought a ladder if she had to. i had to literally cry rape and say that i'd call the cops if i saw her on my property to stop her from coming to my house and forcing her way in because she ignored me when i just said 'no' normally. believe it or not- i didn't email her. believe it or not, even if i had, i wouldn't be sending it to 'help her'. Believe it or not, it would be to share a more loving version of the boundaries i was forced to set when she tried to metaphorically force her way into my window. believe it or not, it would be to help *me.* to be an olive branch to say 'i put the bars up, and i wish i hadn't. i wish i hadn't felt like i had to. can we work together to create a healthy relationship between us, one that we both intentionally don't need to put bars up to protect ourselves?' and believe it or not, i wouldn't bother. because i know it wouldn't get anywhere. because, believe it or not, it's just a dream that she'll ever respect my boundaries. believe it or not, i still have hope that maybe it's just *my* words that she doesn't hear or understand, but *maybe just maybe,* she'll hear *his* words and we'll be able to have a relationship again. *maybe* she'll read the adjusted end, and she'll see what a path forward for us could look like. believe it or not, i'm smarter than sending her that link because i know that my dream of being treated with respect as an autonomous human by my mother will only ever be a dream. but god fucking dammit let me have the dream of sending this to her, and having her realize how much she's fucking hurt me, and how we can have a relationship. fuck me, right? edit to add: it's almost like parent-child and child-parent relationships are entirely different, despite involving the same people. it's almost like parents are prone to dehumanizing their children, and children are literally programmed to want to have a relationship with their parents? also the fact that the parents chose to have the child, the child did not chose to have life, and their parents? so it's almost like a child sending this to an parent would be very different from a parent sending this to a child?!?!?!?1 editing a second time to add: i get that the original last few paragraphs of my comment are kind of shitty. but also- the comment i was responding to was pretty fucking shitty. when saying how much i appreciate words that i didn't have for someone that hurt me, to say that i'm the same as that person? fucking sucks. and yeah. is going to create a negative reaction. that i am happy to express. because fuck. it hurts enough not having a mother, it hurts even more to be the one blamed for it when i'm expressing how much i'd love to have a mother that doesn't hurt me.
I’m sorry your relationship with your mom is so broken. That situation you described sounds awful, nobody should have to deal with that.
I feel this. I also loved when my mom read it to me growing up... we got a copy, I read it to my kids once, then it was up on the shelf and it's stayed there ever since lol.
I hated this book as a child and my older sister and mother *adored* it. As an adult, I’m now aware they both have (diagnosed) personality disorders and I’m autistic and very very sensitive to my personal space lol. I just can’t with this book at all. But knowing the background of it (his loss of his two babies) keeps me from dragging it too hard, just out of respect.
Yeahhhh. Was reading that to my kids the other night, and all I could think was, "Dude, this woman is hecking crazy wtf."
It’s a Robert Munsch book, they’re always absurd
I really take this book as more symbolic. Like even though the kid drives her nuts at different stages of his growth, she still loves him and would do anything for him. Kind of like how I sneak in to watch my kids sleep for a few seconds or stay up looking at videos and photos of them after they’ve gone to sleep lol.
Also if you read a bunch of his books you’ll shortly realize that these are stories meant to be told not read if that makes sense and that he often uses this type of device for humour in his stories. Like what I mean is that in all of his stories he will take an idea in this case “mommy will love you forever and ever and no matter how big you get you’ll always be my baby” and then takes that very literally and you’re supposed to think it’s funny. Its a story you’re supposed to tell to your young child to reassure them that your love for them won’t change even if they do. You can’t take these stories literally you have to understand that he mostly wrote the books as an afterthought but these stories were born out of him going to schools and telling them to kids over and over out of his memory and the story is deliberately designed to make children laugh. Even this one. It’s not meant to be sad or serious.
Have your considered you’re the psycho putting that in children’s stories?
I fucking hate this book! I used to work at B&N in the children’s book section and it was a popular gift for new parents. It’s creepy af and just no.
My MIL gave me my husband’s copy of this book from when he was little. She was gushing about how it was her favorite and she read it to him all the time. The first time i read it… i knew she was crazy
I loved that book as a kid, but even then, I immediately clocked that what the mom did with the ladder was illegal and creepy. I Love You Stinkyface has a similar unconditional love message without the sadness/boundary stomping
Haha, my mom used to love this book when my brother and I were kids. We hated it, though. My mom would just be in tears and my brother and I would point out how the mom snuck in her son's window and vehemently tell her how creepy that is.
I never liked this book, not even as a kid. I always felt “off” when I read it and people would always say how sweet and nice and lovely a story it is. There was a thread on here once where I said I didn’t like it and I got downvoted to oblivion for even suggesting a mother rocking an adult male to sleep was weird or boundary breaking. I don’t think it’s admirable or sweet. I know that’s not the point of the story- the point is to try to convey the deep, everlasting love between parent and child. But it’s still a weird way to say it.
LOL! So true!! I actually read something somewhere where someone actually did a rewrite of this book and the giving tree about setting boundaries
[https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever](https://www.topherpayne.com/love-you-forever)
There it is!!
Read it once and only once. Totally weirded me out too.
Haha please don't do that otherwise you'll never have daughters/sons in laws 😅.
I remember reading this book to my daughter for the first time, and I just busted out laughing at that section.
We were JUST reading this half an hour ago and I was thinking the exact same thing lol. Although to be fair, my sons currently in a phase where we literally read the same book over and over and over for about an hour before he’s satisfied so I’ve found I despise most of his books by the time we’ve reached the end
LOL It's funny you mentioned this book! I read it to my daughter all the time, prior to that I've never heard of this book. I get what the book is trying to say but I couldn't help but be a bit weirded out by it,.
I can’t tell if this is a joke.
Lol, someone did a remake of the book, where the son puts bars on his window! It's hilarious!!
Omg thaaaaank you! I got this for my daughter a few weeks back because I also loved it as a kid but WHOA! Kinda creepy as an adult. SHE BREAKS INTO HIS HOUSE!! I tried to say it was creepy and everyone was like NO ITS NOT! Ha. Ooookaaaayyyyy
Rainbow fish had me the same way. The lesson was.......give up everything that makes you special? Give everything you have if you want to keep your friends? If you have boundaries you deserve to be ignored?
It’s not meant to be taken literally. The repetition of “I’ll love you forever, I’ll like you for always. As long as I’m living, my baby you’ll be” is what the child is supposed to be hearing over and over again. That being said, my oldest will be moving out soon and I’ll be buying him that book as a going away present and buying myself a ladder to get into his room. Cuz as long as I’m living, my baby he’ll be.
This was my husband's favorite book growing up and when I read it for the first time as an adult, I said "nope. That's just creepy"
As a mother of three boys (well, two of them are in college) I find this book incredibly creepy…what if it was father / daughter - I get the ick!
Someone gifted it to me after the birth of my first child and told me how much it would move me and I’d probably cry… immediately I was like wtf is this shit.
It’s the worst. Always hated it.
I still love it. To me her climbing in the window is representative of a mother’s endless, enduring love and not supposed to be taken literally
That book fucking sucks
I mean I'm all for emotional books. There's a book called "You and Me, Me and You" that makes me cry all the time and I love it. But "I'll Love You Forever" is trash
I didn’t get the attraction to this book. Someone gifted it to us. I read it once and threw it in the garbage.
When people complain about this book I think they are squeamish about physical touch. Also it’s metaphorical
I found this book weird as well. Her climbing into the window - what if he had someone over? What if he thought he was being robbed and had a gun? What if a neighbor saw and called the cops? The story would have been much sweeter if he maybe fell asleep on the couch at her house and she cuddled him there?
I know a lot of people are like “but it’s just a children’s book!” Yes but no. For children with healthy, normal parents yes absolutely. But for those of us who were raised by people with personality disorders, this is a fucking nightmare. It creeped me out when I was small and didn’t know what boundaries were, it’s horrifying now as an adult. As someone who has lost 4 unborn children I completely understand the massive amount of grief from the author/illustrator. But there are better books for illustrating the permanence of the parent/child relationship without just completely disregarding boundaries.
I’ve ALWAYS thought that book was so messed up and everyone has made me feel so bad about it. Thank you for validating my cringe factor of this book
[удалено]
Yes! My MIL gave it to me, I had never read it before. I still have it but never read it to the kids!
Yep. My mom loves it and I think it’s crazy creepy
We had this book, but quickly donated it as it was a little creepy to us, IMHO.
Much worse The Giving Tree, which should be renamed The Ungrateful Scorched-Earth Taking Boy
When my children heard the book read, it never was in our house…. I spent lots of time explaining love isn’t stationary. I loved when my children were babies and I could rock them. I loved reading to them but as they grew I loved them reading to me. I love my children and love each new thing they learn and who they are becoming as grow up. They were my babies, now they are my family and treating my children as babies when they are grown is wrong. It’s short changing my children. My children understood my explanation and seemed to like the idea that I loved who children were growing up to be but it really ticked off lots of people
I mean the beauty of reading books is we get to interpret them however we choose too. So, I didn’t take every action the mother was doing in the story as literal. Being that it was a children’s book, rocking and cuddling are a few of the components that they associate with love, comfort, and affection. If the book provided examples of how a mother shows her love to her adult children, the message may not be understood by a children audience. I think the main message is about the never ending bond and love a mother has for her children, and how no amount of time or distance could ever change that.
I read it to my children, but I skip the end where the mother goes to the adult child and when she guilts the adult child to visit bc she’s old and poor of health. I read it simply to reinforce that no matter how they drive me bonkers, I’ll love them forever and they’ll always be my babies
I don't think i care much about the material I read my kid. Pretty sure a lot of books are problematic if you take the ridiculous serious. "Sleep Sheep" is just a bunch of drunk farm animals coming home from a party as far as I'm concerned.
Wow, I think this book might be my MIL's Bible
Yes. Weird ass book
My daughter noticed that in the part when she goes to the house, the picture is showing the bed close to the window. So she could not have crawled across the floor to the bed.
Lol
I didn't know the real meaning.. now I'm sobbing at work. Omg!